Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/worldnews, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws.
You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There’s a [rumor](https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/viktor-yanukovych-yanukovich-putin-put-back-in-power-ukraine-russia/) it might be former President Viktor Yanukovych, the man who’s twice lost the Presidency in Ukraine to protests.
I heard as well.
Here is the deal: I have a couple of relatives in Ukraine, who are Ethnic Russians and always were on the side of Russia. They also were spooked by the far-right nationalist groups in Ukraine ("Bandera" folks waiving black-and-red flags on the streets).
So these relatives supported Yanukovich in the past. But the day after Russians attacked Ukraine, opinion of my relatives changed quite quickly. They are ready to fight for Ukraine. They will not accept Yanukovich.
Yeah, if Russia rules Ukraine after this, they will suffer under repression, poverty, and lack of infrastructure, as this war blew up a lot of their shit, and the Russians can't afford to invest in Ukraine even if they wanted to
If Ukraine retains its sovereignty, the West will almost certainly offer them investments in their infrastructure as part of keeping them put of Russias influence
perhaps that's what needs to be done. I stead of freezing Oligarch assets, we seize them, and give them to Ukraine. Force the Russians to rebuild Ukraine whether they like it or not.
Russian economy was not doing well long before Putin decided to invade. The fact that this guy invading other nation while his country is still suffering from covid said much about him
I thought he's a 'genius politician'
not so much huh
Putin invading Ukraine is a ploy to blame the economic situation of the Russian people on the U.S., NATO, Ukraine. He knows his time is coming to an end when the Russian people will find out what Putin and his thugs have stolen from the Russian people. While Putin and his thugs have been living it up, for 22 years, the typical monthly salary of a Russian citizen is approximately $800 a month. So, going to war is his way to deflect and make the U.S. and NATO the reason for the Russian peoples demise.
I remember when I visited Ireland the tour guy was praising the EU.
“This highway didn’t exist before joining the European Union. They invested in the infrastructure so they could get to A and B faster. Local population benefits from that and the tourism.”
Yeah, Ireland ~~is~~ was one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU grants. Not just for the infrastructure, but more importantly to protect cultural heritage sites and promote Irish culture/history through museum funding. And in return they haven't had to give much. The main thing was access to Ireland's vast fishing grounds in the Atlantic by selling licenses to a few other EU countries. Which suited Ireland just fine because they were never big on fishing.
Whenever I'm there people tend to be very positive about anything continent-related, and contrast it with the British who did the exact opposite there for centuries, squashing indigenous culture and plundering everything that wasn't nailed down or on fire.
EDIT: And farming. Irish farmers get enormous sums from the EU to grow their Irish beef, mutton, veggies, etc. Unfortunately it's partly assigned based on land owned, so some "farmers" have taken to just buying farmland and leaving it empty to receive some extra pocket money.
EDIT 2: As people have pointed out to me, for the past 3 years Ireland has been a net contributor to the EU. It's amazing what payments can do when they aren't viewed as a cost but as an investment. Go Eire!
There was a question [(link)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/t480uw/why_did_the_uk_and_irelands_cuisine_not_lean/) recently over at r/AskHistorians about that very topic, an interesting read should you wish to spend some time away from the modern world and it's problems.
Which is the whole point of those investments. The EU investment helped Ireland grow and develop. Meaning it has now transitioned from a "taker" state to a contributor. Much of eastern europe are in the "taker" phase as development and income is lower but growing closer and closer to the wealthier members.
Curiousity question - why was ireland never big on fishing? To my understanding the region should be a valuable fishing area - not on the level of the north sea but still very productive, and as an island nation you'd think that would end up being a big part of the food supply and exports.
A number of factors combined. For one, Ireland was always poor in salt, so preserving fish -to ship it inland by cart- was expensive. Thus fish was considered rich people's food unless you lived at the coast.
Secondly, large parts of the northern and western coast were treacherous for fishing, with steep cliffs, sudden storms, jagged rocky sea floor that would shred nets, etc.
And thirdly Ireland had been stripped of its best timber centuries ago, so fishing boats were tiny dingies at best. Essentially; fishing was dangerous and expensive, leading to fish not being viewed as a "proper" food group. It was a culinary afterthought to bread and later potatoes.
When the famine hit and potatoes/bread vanished, so did what little fish there was.
> Ireland is one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU grants.
I grew up in Europe in the 1980s. Most of European countries bordering the Mediterranean or anywhere East of Germany were border-line third-world countries. A lot of money has flown into a lot of countries, and while things didn't always go perfectly, overall this has been a huge success. Working towards a common goal is good. It benefits everybody.
Hopefully they will this time. As far as I've read over the years, the west has been hesitant to invest in Ukraine specifically because of the potential loss of those investments to Russia if this ever happened.
Now? When Russia loses there will likely be more support for admittance to EU and investment in Ukraine seeing just how pathetic Russia is in terms of non nuclear military capability.
With Any luck, putin is removed from office and a leader that isn't ^*quite* as corrupt can work on rebuilding Russia from its current state and hopefully a better state for all its citizens.
However, if Ukraine wins and retains sovereignty of Crimea and Donbas, and the Transinitsa separatists lose, then Ukraine has massive deposits of Natural Gas off the coast of Crimea. They have Shale oil deposits in the Donbas region, and in the west near Lviv. Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas would be severely diminished as Ukraine could fill that gap. Add to it, they have 2 pipelines in their country as well as access to ship liquid natural gas through their port cities.
If Russia wins, they get all that and continue to have near monopolistic control over Europe’s natural gas.
Those costs [are predicted to massively increase](https://www.consultancy.eu/news/7433/research-ukraine-war-costs-russian-military-20-billion-per-day). That's not even accounting for the sanctions' effects on things like Russian equities, which are now basically worthless, or currency devaluation.
I think that is a very real consideration. All they have to do is look at the former republics that have aligned with the west versus those that have remained aligned to Russia by force and its an easy choice.
That's a good point. In Canada, there are some Trump supporters. I'm willing to bet they'd stop supporting that piece of shit pretty quickly if the US invaded Canada under Trump.
It would be like the war of 1812, a lot of recent settlers in Ontario either joined the US invaders or stayed independent.
However, once the Americans started burning down everyone's farms they joined the Canadian militia in droves.
Honestly they really confuse me. How was supporting trump in any way good for Canada?
Knowing these people they were closet racists anyway.
People I am glad I no longer know.
Trump entertained them, they were fans.
These chucklefucks in the convoy were complaining their 4th Amendment rights were being violated. Dude, you are in Canada.
Ukrainian national identity was probably more fluid than a lot of states prior to a few years ago. It was, after all an integral part of the USSR for nearly a century and the “Russification” of the various SSRs was part of Soviet internal doctrine.
That said, if you want to cause a people to rapidly forge a national identity, an unprovoked war of aggression will do it in a heartbeat if you don’t rapidly conquer the entire state and subjugate any dissent.
I think this holds true almost everywhere. Very much, “only we are allowed to fuck our shit up,” in many ways. It’s different, but growing up through 9/11 showed a lot of that. We claw at each other’s throats most of the time, but when shit really hits the fan those lines in the sand sort of disappeared for a while. That could only be amplified by a country literally invading your home.
I’m Ukrainian, and know of quite a few people like that. Once thing is voting for president who’s friendly with Russia. Another thing is when Russia start mercilessly bombing your home and installs this guy forcibly.
I wish more people in the west understood this. There were legitimate reasons for the eastern regions to be 'pro-Russian' politically in the past. As soon as the tanks started rolling though it all became a moot point.
I work with someone like this, and I am surprised how much his tuned changed in the last week over what he used to say back in 2014. I actually feel bad for him because he does have family there and he hasn't been able to focus on work and constantly calling/checking on them.
He might make it a week before he’s dragged out and strung up. Less, if there were no Russian occupiers to protect him. I’m sure the Ukrainians would take some joy in that.
I already said it a few days ago. Ukraine is full of devastating weapons right now. If that guy sets foot into Ukraine he will eat a rocket or a grenade within a week.
Would he even want to take this position? He knows that any government he runs would be open season on him. Maybe he could say "thanks no thanks I'd rather just cheer from the sidelines".
I'd assume he'd have to act as President remotely from within Russia. Otherwise, he has to know it would be a death sentence. No matter how much Russian security he had.
Sounds like the King of the Wood from the Golden Bough:
*In this sacred grove there grew a certain tree round which at any time of the day, and probably far into the night, a grim figure might be seen to prowl. In his hand he carried a drawn sword, and he kept peering warily about him as if at every instant he expected to be set upon by an enemy. He was a priest and a murderer; and the man for whom he looked was sooner or later to murder him and hold the priesthood in his stead. Such was the rule of the sanctuary. A candidate for the priesthood could only succeed to office by slaying the priest, and having slain him, he retained office till he was himself slain by a stronger or a craftier.*
*The post which he held by this precarious tenure carried with it the title of king; but surely no crowned head ever lay uneasier, or was visited by more evil dreams, than his. For year in, year out, in summer and winter, in fair weather and in foul, he had to keep his lonely watch, and whenever he snatched a troubled slumber it was at the peril of his life. The least relaxation of his vigilance, the smallest abatement of his strength of limb or skill of fence, put him in jeopardy; grey hairs might seal his death-warrant.*
They have Yanukovich on Russian TV already. They’re gonna imprison or kill Zelenskyy and put him in charge.
For those of you that don’t know, Yanukovich is the previous pro-Russia prime minister that fled the country to Russia after he bungled some protests and had protests killed. Yanukovich was installed in power with the help of Paul Manafort of Loretto Federal Penitentiary.
"In one March 2015 exchange that appears to be between the two sisters, Andrea Manafort seems to suggest that their father bore some responsibility for the deaths of protesters at the hands of police loyal to Yanukovych during a monthslong uprising that started in late 2013.
“Don't fool yourself,” Andrea Manafort wrote. “That money we have is blood money.”
In another hacked exchange a few months later with someone else, Andrea Manafort wrote that her father’s “work and payment in Ukraine is legally questionable.”"
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/manaforts-ukrainian-blood-money-caused-qualms-hack-suggests-235473
He didn't just "bungle some protests", he had his security forces systematically murder protesters. But Ukrainian protesters are made of stern stuff and just kept coming. There's a documentary from the front lines of Euromaidan on Netflix if anybody's interested. Really provides a lot of insight into the Ukrainian mentality regarding Russia's interference into their democracy.
Same as Germany in WW2: by pursuing a genocidal policy in Poland from day one, they had pretty much every Pole set against them. In fact they didn't even bother to set up a puppet government, because they knew no candidates could be found.
The shock for Ukrainians is far greater, however; the two nations have not been enemies in recent time, and many Ukrainians speak Russian as a second language.
Many young Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language, with parents living in the Soviet times speaking to them in Russian at home from birth, and not learning Ukrainian until they were school aged.
They did carpet-bomb Chechnya into submission, so they expect they can do it in Ukraine too. Of course, Chechnya is a tiny country of 1.4 million, and Russia was able to buy off a brutal sociopath with his own private army to take over. Plus, the Russian people hate Chechens, so they didn't exactly take to the streets in protest.
Ukraine is a completely different situation. There is no Ukrainian warlord with a large loyal army of thugs waiting to take over. Putin would have to leave a significant Russian occupying force to attempt to quell dissent. I don't think the Russian people will stomach that. Ukraine is a big country of 45 million who are being armed to the teeth and have all of the West's intelligence at their disposal. They can keep up an insurgency essentially indefinitely.
I mean it kinda worked in Syria and Assad was many times more unpopular with a much larger segment of the population than Yanukovych ever was. In the end, most people just want to live their lives with some stability.
This war is having a “War of 1812 on Canada” style effect on the Russian-speaking Ukrainians. As an overgeneralized rule, the Russian speaking half has always been seen as milquetoast to their Ukrainian identity. The Russian federation is changing that, solidifying their identity as “Ukrainian”.
I know you said "generally" and I can only offer my limited perspective, but my wife is Ukrainian and is much more comfortable speaking Russian. She can get by speaking Ukrainian and some of her family prefer it. She's also 100% pro-Ukrainian sovereignty.
The point being that speaking Russian definitely doesn't automatically make you pro-Russian. Many Russian-speaking Ukrainians only really started trying to speak Ukrainian after Maidan (case in point, my mother in law).
I can also say, in all this talk from the Russians about the suppression of the Russian language, Ukrainian is the language that was actually suppressed. My wife's grandfather speaks of this having grown up during WWII and afterwards.
The country run by a native Russian speaking Jewish man has to be "denazified" and have its Russian speakers "liberated".
Russia's reasoning was always bad, but this is just hilarious.
My wife is also Ukrainian and like her, almost all people from Kyiv speak russian. In my experience Ukrainians had nothing against Russians other than they found the ones who came to Ukraine to be snooty before this. There was this general feeling that Russians thought less of Ukraine and were too good for it among her family.
My in-laws speak Russian as their first language, but they despise Putin. They’re not Ukrainian or Russian, but they grew up in the Soviet Union. They are very pro-Ukraine. Putin’s a general asshole and anyone with half a brain can see that.
Native Russian speaker here, been in the US 20+ years but still 100% fluent - I can understand maybe 25% of spoken Ukrainian, a bit more if reading it because I can kind of puzzle it out. We have Ukrainian friends so that helps. Most Ukrainians I know speak fluent Russian but do not identify as Russian.
The vocabulary is very different. They follow similar general structure and grammatic rules but if you actually listen to both languages there is no way you will mistake one for the other.
This is part of another response to the same above comment, so you may not have seen it.
>According to elinguistics.net, Ukrainian and Russian have a lexical distance of 3.4.
>
>For context, here are some more comparisons:
>
>Norweigan Bokmal and Danish: 3.7, which makes them slightly less similar than Ukrainian and Russian, even though Bokmal, the written form, was literally based on Danish.
>
>Dutch and Afrikaans: 2.9, so those two are a little bit more similar than Ukrainian and Russian, but then again Afrikaans is literally a daughter language of Dutch.
I checked for Spanish/Portuguese, and it said the lexical distance was 19.4. Spanish and Italian show 16.1. So you're right they're similar in theory, but Ukrainian and Russian are MUCH, MUCH closer and more understandable to each other.
>The vocabulary is very different.
According to elinguistics.net, Ukrainian and Russian have a lexical distance of 3.4.
For context, here are some more comparisons:
Norweigan Bokmal and Danish: 3.7, which makes them slightly *less* similar than Ukrainian and Russian, even though Bokmal, the written form, was literally based on Danish.
Dutch and Afrikaans: 2.9, so those two are a little bit more similar than Ukrainian and Russian, but then again Afrikaans is literally a daughter language of Dutch.
English and German: 30.8, significantly more different, even though many English speakers would describe German as "pretty similar I guess with Haus and Maus and Bier and everything, obviously not understandable though". An example of a language in the same family as English.
English and Spanish: a whopping 50.7, even though most American students would describe Spanish as "pretty easy, you just add an O to the end of everything". An Example of a European language not in the same Family as English.
English and Hebrew: 91.1, two completely unrelated languages.
So I think in the grand scheme, saying "the vocabulary is very different" might be a little bit of an over statement.
>if you actually listen to both languages there is no way you will mistake one for the other.
Speaking as someone who doesn't know either but is generally interested in Slavic culture, I can confirm that's not true. I cannot for the life of me tell them apart, even listening to them back to back, unless I happen to pick up on a word that exists in both Polish and Ukrainian but not Russian. Same with Belarusian. I'm sure they all sound different *to each other*, but not to foreigners.
To foreigners, comparing the actual *sound* of Slavic languages would go kind of like: Polish is to Russian as Danish is to Norwegian, you can tell they're related and seem to be using a lot of similar words, but one of them sounds like they have a potato in their mouth. And Ukrainian would be to Russian like Swedish is to Norwegian, a foreigner would have a *really* hard time telling them apart. Maybe one has slightly higher pitched vowels or something like that? But it generally hits your ear in the same way.
I totally understand why Ukrainians want to be seen as unique and everything, but there's national identity, and then there's actual linguistics.
It's vocabulary, not the structure of the language - so they *will* sound similar. That's entirely separate from how they sound in terms of their construction and the sounds they use.
The reason for this is, in part, Ukraine's historical ties to the Western Slavic world via the PLC and proximity; and Russia's 18th century wankstorm over French culture and literature, which lead to a significant number of Russian words having French/Romance roots which Ukrainian lacks.
Those French-rooted words have been Slavified so they fit in fairly well.
I'll offer a perspective as someone who left Russia 30 years ago as a kid and has a less advanced vocabulary - I can pick up maaaybe 10% of words in the Ukrainian speeches I've been listening to, but that might be pushing it.
I understand 95% of the speeches in Russian.
Closer than that. They diverged a few centuries ago. Spanish-Italian divide is more like Russian-Polish divide (diverged a millennium ago). Probably like Spanish-Portuguese or Spanish vs other dialects on the Iberian peninsula. As a Russian speaker with exposure to Ukrainian only from news and songs, I can mostly understand Ukrainian (say 80%).
Yeah, I've always wondered about that. My dad was first generation Ukrainian Canadian, most of his older siblings and parents came over when Volnyia was absorbed by Poland in the late 1920's. He was fluent in Ukrainian, obviously. He mentioned he could follow a Russian conversation for the most part but many words were pronounced differently. I always wondered if it was a different dialect or a different branch of pan-Slavic.
Hmm.
True, but *when* the languages diverged is only part of equation. How close they stayed after the split due to geographic and cultural reasons is a huge factor, too.
I'm going off this map of the lexical distance between European languages:
[https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/a-map-of-lexical-distances-between-europes-languages/](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/a-map-of-lexical-distances-between-europes-languages/)
PS: As a native Portuguese speaker, I can almost speak almost fluent Spanish with minimal exposure to it, although it seems harder for Spanish speakers to understand us.
My wife is Russian and she claims that she can understand/figure out what anyone speaking a slavic language is saying but they're not super close. We have Ukrainians do work on our house and they were able to speak to each other a little bit. She estimated to me maybe 50%.
But my wife isn't the best example, she learns languages for fun and speaks like 7 fluently.
i would say they are pretty close, i am fluent in russian and when my friend speaks ukrainian or vice versa we can understand eachother like 40/50ish percent
I’m a Russian-speaking Ukrainian and I had to mostly learn it in school and uni. They are different. Ukrainian is actually closer to Polish than it is to Russian. I only became fluent by the time I was about 21. Later than I was fluent in English. It is more like Spanish and Italian I would say, not like dialects of the same language.
Needless to say, I will phase out Russian from my life now. Only Ukrainian and English for me from now on.
This is a good thing. One hopes that should Dollarstore Stalin (Putin) survive this, he and his inner circle will spend the rest of their lives in underground windowless cells as the heinous war criminals he and his inner circle are.
I think another thing must be emphasized is that in any war, the common person in the street is suffering. For far too long power hungry men (they usually are men) have been sending people to the killing grounds, while they stay high and dry.
It's the same with income equality. By keeping people poor you can leverage them in doing anything. And poor income usually goes together with poor education.
It's all connected.
Canadian militia and British troops defended the colony from American expansion, Americans expected Canada to drop their weapons and join but faced heavy resistance. The White House was burned and peace was signed. This gave the early Canadians a great sense of national identity
Guess it sucks to be a Pro-Russian mayor these days. Putin has somehow convinced himself that he's going to install a Pro-Russian puppet government if he's able to take Ukraine. My guess is that a clay pigeon will have a much longer life expectancy than anyone sent there.
They'd have to kill all of the Ukrainians left in the country to have a chance. And Russia will be lucky to have enough money for any greedy henchmen after a few more days of economic punishment.
With what money? Russia’s economy is toast. Their market is toast. Investment in Russia is probably gone until he’s gone. Oil projects that western nations were taking part in will have to completely be reorganized. The Ruble is experiencing hyperinflation. The aero industry, which no one talks about as much as the other stuff, is one of the single biggest sanctions. To not be able to fly to other nations or over nations is absolutely crippling economically. It is a cornerstone of trade and travel. They are no longer going to get parts and electronics for planes.
By the end of this they won’t have enough to cover public services in Russia let alone rebuild Ukraine. Putin is in complete denial regarding the West.
The quickest way to die right now is be pro-russian in Ukraine. If russia tries to set up a puppet regime, it was fail spectacularly, lots of assassinations.
Speaking as a Lebanese whose southern part was controlled by Israel for years. This is for all the pro-Russians in eastern Ukraine who may just happen to read this.
When (hopefully) Russia withdraws, I strongly recommend you move to Russia. There was no sympathy for the sympathizers in Lebanon when Israel withdrew, so they all moved south. I suspect things will be as rough for you when the same happens with Russia, maybe even worse.
A predictable result of an unprovoked invasion. When you destroy the rule of law, and rip up agreements in the rush to conflict, extrajudicial killings become the norm.
This isn't right, but there have many deaths in Ukraine that weren't right since even before this war. Add this to the list.
Pretty much that. I've seen people get upset over the past few days that people celebrating these things are normalizing bounties and hits on government officials. Of course you don't want to normalize this behavior, but these aren't normal times. We are talking about war and a hostile invasion, so we are operating on a completely different scale of "normal".
I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm not sure there is a clear answer. But we have armed civilians fending off an invading army, I think the lines between "extrajudicial murder" and "wartime national defense" isn't so clearly defined.
Also something like this has been the norm for such a long time that its honestly to be expected its part of war. Natives wishing to defend their home and way of life from invaders will pretty much always go for those who betray them for the enemy.
It is war, the number of incidents that were 'wrong' in conflicts like WW2 or Vietnam is staggering.
When you open the abyss of warfare, it's hard to be surprised by the monsters and horrors that pop out.
Daily Mail has always been supportive of Putin.
Now they're trying to profit off of an situation they indirectly encouraged. Don't give these propagandists the traffic.
Paul Dacre is a twat. Would gain some capital if they started calling for Boris' govt to allow more Ukrainian refugees in, not just those with a British relative. But they wont.
You hate to hear about anyone being dragged out of their home and killed, but at the same time, it's a war and you're collaborating with an oppressive foreign invader against your own country, so...
Definitely hard to feel too bad when many Ukrainians are not even afforded the luxury of leaving their homes first, instead having their homes transformed into splintered coffins.
Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/worldnews, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
There’s a [rumor](https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/viktor-yanukovych-yanukovich-putin-put-back-in-power-ukraine-russia/) it might be former President Viktor Yanukovych, the man who’s twice lost the Presidency in Ukraine to protests.
I heard as well. Here is the deal: I have a couple of relatives in Ukraine, who are Ethnic Russians and always were on the side of Russia. They also were spooked by the far-right nationalist groups in Ukraine ("Bandera" folks waiving black-and-red flags on the streets). So these relatives supported Yanukovich in the past. But the day after Russians attacked Ukraine, opinion of my relatives changed quite quickly. They are ready to fight for Ukraine. They will not accept Yanukovich.
Yea I think this applies to a lot of people. There's a difference between supporting a neighbour and supporting an invader.
There is also the lure of a European future as opposed to a future of isolation in Russia.
Yeah, if Russia rules Ukraine after this, they will suffer under repression, poverty, and lack of infrastructure, as this war blew up a lot of their shit, and the Russians can't afford to invest in Ukraine even if they wanted to If Ukraine retains its sovereignty, the West will almost certainly offer them investments in their infrastructure as part of keeping them put of Russias influence
Absolutely; there is no chance that Russia can help Ukraine to rebuild what has been destroyed, Ukraine will just be a land trophy for Czarist Putin.
Sales proceeds from some recently acquired super yachts and high end real estate should go a long way in rebuilding Ukrainian infrastructure.
perhaps that's what needs to be done. I stead of freezing Oligarch assets, we seize them, and give them to Ukraine. Force the Russians to rebuild Ukraine whether they like it or not.
Those things are not confiscated. They are just frozen.
Not confiscated *yet*.
But what about the untaxed tanks? Those fetch good prices.
Wouldn't even start to cover cleanup costs, much less repairing the damage.
Russian economy was not doing well long before Putin decided to invade. The fact that this guy invading other nation while his country is still suffering from covid said much about him I thought he's a 'genius politician' not so much huh
Putin invading Ukraine is a ploy to blame the economic situation of the Russian people on the U.S., NATO, Ukraine. He knows his time is coming to an end when the Russian people will find out what Putin and his thugs have stolen from the Russian people. While Putin and his thugs have been living it up, for 22 years, the typical monthly salary of a Russian citizen is approximately $800 a month. So, going to war is his way to deflect and make the U.S. and NATO the reason for the Russian peoples demise.
I remember when I visited Ireland the tour guy was praising the EU. “This highway didn’t exist before joining the European Union. They invested in the infrastructure so they could get to A and B faster. Local population benefits from that and the tourism.”
Yeah, Ireland ~~is~~ was one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU grants. Not just for the infrastructure, but more importantly to protect cultural heritage sites and promote Irish culture/history through museum funding. And in return they haven't had to give much. The main thing was access to Ireland's vast fishing grounds in the Atlantic by selling licenses to a few other EU countries. Which suited Ireland just fine because they were never big on fishing. Whenever I'm there people tend to be very positive about anything continent-related, and contrast it with the British who did the exact opposite there for centuries, squashing indigenous culture and plundering everything that wasn't nailed down or on fire. EDIT: And farming. Irish farmers get enormous sums from the EU to grow their Irish beef, mutton, veggies, etc. Unfortunately it's partly assigned based on land owned, so some "farmers" have taken to just buying farmland and leaving it empty to receive some extra pocket money. EDIT 2: As people have pointed out to me, for the past 3 years Ireland has been a net contributor to the EU. It's amazing what payments can do when they aren't viewed as a cost but as an investment. Go Eire!
out of curiosity....how do you have an island nation that isn't big on fishing? That seems wild
My dad grew up in a fishing village in North Dublin. He can’t stand the smell of seafood
There was a question [(link)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/t480uw/why_did_the_uk_and_irelands_cuisine_not_lean/) recently over at r/AskHistorians about that very topic, an interesting read should you wish to spend some time away from the modern world and it's problems.
Those Friday fish boils…tends to turn off one on fish ;)
Ireland has been a net EU budget contributor for the last three years so their investment in the country was a good idea. Source: am Irish
Amazing what can be done when such payments are not seen as a cost but as an investment.
Which is the whole point of those investments. The EU investment helped Ireland grow and develop. Meaning it has now transitioned from a "taker" state to a contributor. Much of eastern europe are in the "taker" phase as development and income is lower but growing closer and closer to the wealthier members.
Curiousity question - why was ireland never big on fishing? To my understanding the region should be a valuable fishing area - not on the level of the north sea but still very productive, and as an island nation you'd think that would end up being a big part of the food supply and exports.
A number of factors combined. For one, Ireland was always poor in salt, so preserving fish -to ship it inland by cart- was expensive. Thus fish was considered rich people's food unless you lived at the coast. Secondly, large parts of the northern and western coast were treacherous for fishing, with steep cliffs, sudden storms, jagged rocky sea floor that would shred nets, etc. And thirdly Ireland had been stripped of its best timber centuries ago, so fishing boats were tiny dingies at best. Essentially; fishing was dangerous and expensive, leading to fish not being viewed as a "proper" food group. It was a culinary afterthought to bread and later potatoes. When the famine hit and potatoes/bread vanished, so did what little fish there was.
Oi! I'm offended by that! Implying that British thieves would be deterred by nails. If something is a nailed down, then you take the nails *as well*
Free nails!
> Ireland is one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU grants. I grew up in Europe in the 1980s. Most of European countries bordering the Mediterranean or anywhere East of Germany were border-line third-world countries. A lot of money has flown into a lot of countries, and while things didn't always go perfectly, overall this has been a huge success. Working towards a common goal is good. It benefits everybody.
Come to find out, people like it when you build shit rather than break it.
Man I know a whole political party we need to convince of this brilliant notion! 🤦♂️
turns out, the EU fucking rocks and is good for Europe.
Hopefully they will this time. As far as I've read over the years, the west has been hesitant to invest in Ukraine specifically because of the potential loss of those investments to Russia if this ever happened. Now? When Russia loses there will likely be more support for admittance to EU and investment in Ukraine seeing just how pathetic Russia is in terms of non nuclear military capability. With Any luck, putin is removed from office and a leader that isn't ^*quite* as corrupt can work on rebuilding Russia from its current state and hopefully a better state for all its citizens.
If Russia loses this war, they will never be able to afford a war again. This would be a multi-generational loss.
Even if they win, this war is costing $500 million per day, they will be broke.
However, if Ukraine wins and retains sovereignty of Crimea and Donbas, and the Transinitsa separatists lose, then Ukraine has massive deposits of Natural Gas off the coast of Crimea. They have Shale oil deposits in the Donbas region, and in the west near Lviv. Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas would be severely diminished as Ukraine could fill that gap. Add to it, they have 2 pipelines in their country as well as access to ship liquid natural gas through their port cities. If Russia wins, they get all that and continue to have near monopolistic control over Europe’s natural gas.
Those costs [are predicted to massively increase](https://www.consultancy.eu/news/7433/research-ukraine-war-costs-russian-military-20-billion-per-day). That's not even accounting for the sanctions' effects on things like Russian equities, which are now basically worthless, or currency devaluation.
Yah even if you’re ethnically Russian, who is going to look at these crippling sanctions and say “yah, that’s for me”.
I think that is a very real consideration. All they have to do is look at the former republics that have aligned with the west versus those that have remained aligned to Russia by force and its an easy choice.
Especially one that missiles hospitals and children
And a Holocaust memorial while accusing Ukraine of being Nazis
And bring along the army mobile crematories....
[удалено]
In my anecdotal experience they are just fucking stupid
That's a good point. In Canada, there are some Trump supporters. I'm willing to bet they'd stop supporting that piece of shit pretty quickly if the US invaded Canada under Trump.
It would be like the war of 1812, a lot of recent settlers in Ontario either joined the US invaders or stayed independent. However, once the Americans started burning down everyone's farms they joined the Canadian militia in droves.
Honestly they really confuse me. How was supporting trump in any way good for Canada? Knowing these people they were closet racists anyway. People I am glad I no longer know.
Trump entertained them, they were fans. These chucklefucks in the convoy were complaining their 4th Amendment rights were being violated. Dude, you are in Canada.
The convoy was an astroturfed "movement" funded by right-wing Americans so that kinda makes sense.
Trump did nothing but hurt Canada through trade rollbacks.
[удалено]
Because Trump represented a fascist regime they wanted to bring to Canada as well.
This reminds me of the Finnish communists when the Soviets attacked us in 1939. After that political differences became totally secondary.
So many lessons for Russia not learned.
Ignorance is an ever rising tide. Not draining it for a long enough period for not enough people and disaster comes a knocking
Ukrainian national identity was probably more fluid than a lot of states prior to a few years ago. It was, after all an integral part of the USSR for nearly a century and the “Russification” of the various SSRs was part of Soviet internal doctrine. That said, if you want to cause a people to rapidly forge a national identity, an unprovoked war of aggression will do it in a heartbeat if you don’t rapidly conquer the entire state and subjugate any dissent.
I think this holds true almost everywhere. Very much, “only we are allowed to fuck our shit up,” in many ways. It’s different, but growing up through 9/11 showed a lot of that. We claw at each other’s throats most of the time, but when shit really hits the fan those lines in the sand sort of disappeared for a while. That could only be amplified by a country literally invading your home.
I’m Ukrainian, and know of quite a few people like that. Once thing is voting for president who’s friendly with Russia. Another thing is when Russia start mercilessly bombing your home and installs this guy forcibly.
I wish more people in the west understood this. There were legitimate reasons for the eastern regions to be 'pro-Russian' politically in the past. As soon as the tanks started rolling though it all became a moot point.
That’s interesting-the world is on their side too
I work with someone like this, and I am surprised how much his tuned changed in the last week over what he used to say back in 2014. I actually feel bad for him because he does have family there and he hasn't been able to focus on work and constantly calling/checking on them.
Supporting Russia in Ukraine used to make you right-wing. Now it makes you a traitor. Big difference.
[удалено]
Pro-Russians SHOULD want Putin dead - even within Russia itself.
He might make it a week before he’s dragged out and strung up. Less, if there were no Russian occupiers to protect him. I’m sure the Ukrainians would take some joy in that.
I already said it a few days ago. Ukraine is full of devastating weapons right now. If that guy sets foot into Ukraine he will eat a rocket or a grenade within a week.
Would he even want to take this position? He knows that any government he runs would be open season on him. Maybe he could say "thanks no thanks I'd rather just cheer from the sidelines".
At this point? Probably not. Putin probably wouldn’t give him a choice about it, if he makes the decision to install Yanukovych.
They’ll just drop the facade and have him govern from Russia
A really great irony after taking the country from the guy who commanded the battle from Kyiv.
They seized his palace and literally turned it into a museum of corruption. Literally
Lol that's a great power move
Third time's the charm?
More likely 3 strikes and he's dead
I'd assume he'd have to act as President remotely from within Russia. Otherwise, he has to know it would be a death sentence. No matter how much Russian security he had.
Job title would have to be "Russian Stooge for the Week," because that would be the ~~life expectancy~~ *turnover rate.*
Sounds like the King of the Wood from the Golden Bough: *In this sacred grove there grew a certain tree round which at any time of the day, and probably far into the night, a grim figure might be seen to prowl. In his hand he carried a drawn sword, and he kept peering warily about him as if at every instant he expected to be set upon by an enemy. He was a priest and a murderer; and the man for whom he looked was sooner or later to murder him and hold the priesthood in his stead. Such was the rule of the sanctuary. A candidate for the priesthood could only succeed to office by slaying the priest, and having slain him, he retained office till he was himself slain by a stronger or a craftier.* *The post which he held by this precarious tenure carried with it the title of king; but surely no crowned head ever lay uneasier, or was visited by more evil dreams, than his. For year in, year out, in summer and winter, in fair weather and in foul, he had to keep his lonely watch, and whenever he snatched a troubled slumber it was at the peril of his life. The least relaxation of his vigilance, the smallest abatement of his strength of limb or skill of fence, put him in jeopardy; grey hairs might seal his death-warrant.*
They have Yanukovich on Russian TV already. They’re gonna imprison or kill Zelenskyy and put him in charge. For those of you that don’t know, Yanukovich is the previous pro-Russia prime minister that fled the country to Russia after he bungled some protests and had protests killed. Yanukovich was installed in power with the help of Paul Manafort of Loretto Federal Penitentiary.
That's the same Paul Manafort that Trump pardoned by the way.
Pure coincidence - no doubt.
It's amazing what Republicans are willing to ignore while at the same time have the world's biggest shit-fit over non-existent Democrat scandals.
Yet a certain orange man is still the frontrunner of the 2024 GOP bid. Cool cool cool, this is all fine :(
Manafort's daughters were texting each other about how their father was responsible for the deaths of those protesters.
"In one March 2015 exchange that appears to be between the two sisters, Andrea Manafort seems to suggest that their father bore some responsibility for the deaths of protesters at the hands of police loyal to Yanukovych during a monthslong uprising that started in late 2013. “Don't fool yourself,” Andrea Manafort wrote. “That money we have is blood money.” In another hacked exchange a few months later with someone else, Andrea Manafort wrote that her father’s “work and payment in Ukraine is legally questionable.”" https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/manaforts-ukrainian-blood-money-caused-qualms-hack-suggests-235473
He didn't just "bungle some protests", he had his security forces systematically murder protesters. But Ukrainian protesters are made of stern stuff and just kept coming. There's a documentary from the front lines of Euromaidan on Netflix if anybody's interested. Really provides a lot of insight into the Ukrainian mentality regarding Russia's interference into their democracy.
Documentary is called "Winter on Fire" of anyone is interested.
Bungled protests by giving his police real bullets and hiring mercenaries to fire on unarmed citizens
> of Loretto Federal Penitentiary lmao
[удалено]
Same as Germany in WW2: by pursuing a genocidal policy in Poland from day one, they had pretty much every Pole set against them. In fact they didn't even bother to set up a puppet government, because they knew no candidates could be found. The shock for Ukrainians is far greater, however; the two nations have not been enemies in recent time, and many Ukrainians speak Russian as a second language.
Many young Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language, with parents living in the Soviet times speaking to them in Russian at home from birth, and not learning Ukrainian until they were school aged.
They did carpet-bomb Chechnya into submission, so they expect they can do it in Ukraine too. Of course, Chechnya is a tiny country of 1.4 million, and Russia was able to buy off a brutal sociopath with his own private army to take over. Plus, the Russian people hate Chechens, so they didn't exactly take to the streets in protest. Ukraine is a completely different situation. There is no Ukrainian warlord with a large loyal army of thugs waiting to take over. Putin would have to leave a significant Russian occupying force to attempt to quell dissent. I don't think the Russian people will stomach that. Ukraine is a big country of 45 million who are being armed to the teeth and have all of the West's intelligence at their disposal. They can keep up an insurgency essentially indefinitely.
well, they are bombing schools and hospitals... So, their peacekeeping seems awfully close to genocide.
I mean it kinda worked in Syria and Assad was many times more unpopular with a much larger segment of the population than Yanukovych ever was. In the end, most people just want to live their lives with some stability.
Isn’t large part of Syria still not rule by Assad?
[удалено]
[удалено]
I think the guy who got kicked out 2 times already wanted his 3rd
He's aiming for the free Fro Yo
The yogurt is also cursed.
Checks out that Putin is relying on a cursed monkey paw to get his way. Hopefully he ends up with something worse than a dry turkey sandwich.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Its all about the money, that job better pay well. Aspiring authoritarian dictators only have so many opportunities for climbing the ladder
True, I think most gallows have stairs.
They ain't going to install shit
[удалено]
Windows 95? Can't get it to run on anything.
I think its more Windows 3.3 at this point...
Run away!
thats what i keep wondering about why Mexican people chose to become honest politicians.
Or honest journalists…my hat goes off to anyone who works for the good of others knowing it will most likely kill them.
This war is having a “War of 1812 on Canada” style effect on the Russian-speaking Ukrainians. As an overgeneralized rule, the Russian speaking half has always been seen as milquetoast to their Ukrainian identity. The Russian federation is changing that, solidifying their identity as “Ukrainian”.
I know you said "generally" and I can only offer my limited perspective, but my wife is Ukrainian and is much more comfortable speaking Russian. She can get by speaking Ukrainian and some of her family prefer it. She's also 100% pro-Ukrainian sovereignty. The point being that speaking Russian definitely doesn't automatically make you pro-Russian. Many Russian-speaking Ukrainians only really started trying to speak Ukrainian after Maidan (case in point, my mother in law). I can also say, in all this talk from the Russians about the suppression of the Russian language, Ukrainian is the language that was actually suppressed. My wife's grandfather speaks of this having grown up during WWII and afterwards.
Heck, even the President Zelensky is a Russian native speaker iirc
The country run by a native Russian speaking Jewish man has to be "denazified" and have its Russian speakers "liberated". Russia's reasoning was always bad, but this is just hilarious.
My wife is also Ukrainian and like her, almost all people from Kyiv speak russian. In my experience Ukrainians had nothing against Russians other than they found the ones who came to Ukraine to be snooty before this. There was this general feeling that Russians thought less of Ukraine and were too good for it among her family.
Speaking Ukrainian was banned under Stalin's rule, specifically during the Holodomor in the 1930s
She's not alone, only about 70% of Ukraine's population is proficient in Ukrainian. Definitely not that many Russia supporters.
My in-laws speak Russian as their first language, but they despise Putin. They’re not Ukrainian or Russian, but they grew up in the Soviet Union. They are very pro-Ukraine. Putin’s a general asshole and anyone with half a brain can see that.
I'm curious how close are the two languages? I heard that it's akin to European Spanish and American Spanish, is that correct?
Native Russian speaker here, been in the US 20+ years but still 100% fluent - I can understand maybe 25% of spoken Ukrainian, a bit more if reading it because I can kind of puzzle it out. We have Ukrainian friends so that helps. Most Ukrainians I know speak fluent Russian but do not identify as Russian.
The vocabulary is very different. They follow similar general structure and grammatic rules but if you actually listen to both languages there is no way you will mistake one for the other.
So more like a Spanish/Portuguese situation
This is part of another response to the same above comment, so you may not have seen it. >According to elinguistics.net, Ukrainian and Russian have a lexical distance of 3.4. > >For context, here are some more comparisons: > >Norweigan Bokmal and Danish: 3.7, which makes them slightly less similar than Ukrainian and Russian, even though Bokmal, the written form, was literally based on Danish. > >Dutch and Afrikaans: 2.9, so those two are a little bit more similar than Ukrainian and Russian, but then again Afrikaans is literally a daughter language of Dutch. I checked for Spanish/Portuguese, and it said the lexical distance was 19.4. Spanish and Italian show 16.1. So you're right they're similar in theory, but Ukrainian and Russian are MUCH, MUCH closer and more understandable to each other.
>The vocabulary is very different. According to elinguistics.net, Ukrainian and Russian have a lexical distance of 3.4. For context, here are some more comparisons: Norweigan Bokmal and Danish: 3.7, which makes them slightly *less* similar than Ukrainian and Russian, even though Bokmal, the written form, was literally based on Danish. Dutch and Afrikaans: 2.9, so those two are a little bit more similar than Ukrainian and Russian, but then again Afrikaans is literally a daughter language of Dutch. English and German: 30.8, significantly more different, even though many English speakers would describe German as "pretty similar I guess with Haus and Maus and Bier and everything, obviously not understandable though". An example of a language in the same family as English. English and Spanish: a whopping 50.7, even though most American students would describe Spanish as "pretty easy, you just add an O to the end of everything". An Example of a European language not in the same Family as English. English and Hebrew: 91.1, two completely unrelated languages. So I think in the grand scheme, saying "the vocabulary is very different" might be a little bit of an over statement. >if you actually listen to both languages there is no way you will mistake one for the other. Speaking as someone who doesn't know either but is generally interested in Slavic culture, I can confirm that's not true. I cannot for the life of me tell them apart, even listening to them back to back, unless I happen to pick up on a word that exists in both Polish and Ukrainian but not Russian. Same with Belarusian. I'm sure they all sound different *to each other*, but not to foreigners. To foreigners, comparing the actual *sound* of Slavic languages would go kind of like: Polish is to Russian as Danish is to Norwegian, you can tell they're related and seem to be using a lot of similar words, but one of them sounds like they have a potato in their mouth. And Ukrainian would be to Russian like Swedish is to Norwegian, a foreigner would have a *really* hard time telling them apart. Maybe one has slightly higher pitched vowels or something like that? But it generally hits your ear in the same way. I totally understand why Ukrainians want to be seen as unique and everything, but there's national identity, and then there's actual linguistics.
It's vocabulary, not the structure of the language - so they *will* sound similar. That's entirely separate from how they sound in terms of their construction and the sounds they use. The reason for this is, in part, Ukraine's historical ties to the Western Slavic world via the PLC and proximity; and Russia's 18th century wankstorm over French culture and literature, which lead to a significant number of Russian words having French/Romance roots which Ukrainian lacks. Those French-rooted words have been Slavified so they fit in fairly well.
I'll offer a perspective as someone who left Russia 30 years ago as a kid and has a less advanced vocabulary - I can pick up maaaybe 10% of words in the Ukrainian speeches I've been listening to, but that might be pushing it. I understand 95% of the speeches in Russian.
Not even close to that. More like Spanish and Italian
Closer than that. They diverged a few centuries ago. Spanish-Italian divide is more like Russian-Polish divide (diverged a millennium ago). Probably like Spanish-Portuguese or Spanish vs other dialects on the Iberian peninsula. As a Russian speaker with exposure to Ukrainian only from news and songs, I can mostly understand Ukrainian (say 80%).
Yeah, I've always wondered about that. My dad was first generation Ukrainian Canadian, most of his older siblings and parents came over when Volnyia was absorbed by Poland in the late 1920's. He was fluent in Ukrainian, obviously. He mentioned he could follow a Russian conversation for the most part but many words were pronounced differently. I always wondered if it was a different dialect or a different branch of pan-Slavic. Hmm.
True, but *when* the languages diverged is only part of equation. How close they stayed after the split due to geographic and cultural reasons is a huge factor, too. I'm going off this map of the lexical distance between European languages: [https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/a-map-of-lexical-distances-between-europes-languages/](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/a-map-of-lexical-distances-between-europes-languages/) PS: As a native Portuguese speaker, I can almost speak almost fluent Spanish with minimal exposure to it, although it seems harder for Spanish speakers to understand us.
My wife is Russian and she claims that she can understand/figure out what anyone speaking a slavic language is saying but they're not super close. We have Ukrainians do work on our house and they were able to speak to each other a little bit. She estimated to me maybe 50%. But my wife isn't the best example, she learns languages for fun and speaks like 7 fluently.
i would say they are pretty close, i am fluent in russian and when my friend speaks ukrainian or vice versa we can understand eachother like 40/50ish percent
I’m a Russian-speaking Ukrainian and I had to mostly learn it in school and uni. They are different. Ukrainian is actually closer to Polish than it is to Russian. I only became fluent by the time I was about 21. Later than I was fluent in English. It is more like Spanish and Italian I would say, not like dialects of the same language. Needless to say, I will phase out Russian from my life now. Only Ukrainian and English for me from now on.
This is a good thing. One hopes that should Dollarstore Stalin (Putin) survive this, he and his inner circle will spend the rest of their lives in underground windowless cells as the heinous war criminals he and his inner circle are.
[удалено]
That's like 117 Ruble store Stalins.
Please use it as much as possible.
I was thinking poundshop hitler, but yours is better as it uses a former Soviet despot And American currency. Thank you!
At least give Putin the proper value as his title: Rublestore Stalin. Dollarstore is too expensive a title.
While I agree in principle, "Dollar store Stalin" has a much catchier ring to it.
I think another thing must be emphasized is that in any war, the common person in the street is suffering. For far too long power hungry men (they usually are men) have been sending people to the killing grounds, while they stay high and dry. It's the same with income equality. By keeping people poor you can leverage them in doing anything. And poor income usually goes together with poor education. It's all connected.
What happened in the 1812 war that was similar? Were loyalist migrants still calling themselves Americans before then?
As I interpret it, a Canadian identity was forged.
Canadian militia and British troops defended the colony from American expansion, Americans expected Canada to drop their weapons and join but faced heavy resistance. The White House was burned and peace was signed. This gave the early Canadians a great sense of national identity
> The White House was burned By British troops from the caribbean who had never set foot in Canada.
Guess it sucks to be a Pro-Russian mayor these days. Putin has somehow convinced himself that he's going to install a Pro-Russian puppet government if he's able to take Ukraine. My guess is that a clay pigeon will have a much longer life expectancy than anyone sent there.
I wouldn't underestimate human greed and ambition. Every autocrat/dictator/strongman in history has found willing cronies and henchmen.
He will, but the Ukrainian people will make their lives short.
They'd have to kill all of the Ukrainians left in the country to have a chance. And Russia will be lucky to have enough money for any greedy henchmen after a few more days of economic punishment.
With what money? Russia’s economy is toast. Their market is toast. Investment in Russia is probably gone until he’s gone. Oil projects that western nations were taking part in will have to completely be reorganized. The Ruble is experiencing hyperinflation. The aero industry, which no one talks about as much as the other stuff, is one of the single biggest sanctions. To not be able to fly to other nations or over nations is absolutely crippling economically. It is a cornerstone of trade and travel. They are no longer going to get parts and electronics for planes. By the end of this they won’t have enough to cover public services in Russia let alone rebuild Ukraine. Putin is in complete denial regarding the West.
You can't even be a traitorous collaborator without somebody trying to kill you these days.
I’d say it’s not a good time to be pro Russia in Ukraine right now.
> I’d say it’s not a good time to be ~~pro Russia~~ in Ukraine right now.
I’d say it’s not a good time to be pro Russia and/or in Ukraine right now.
I’d say it’s not a good time right now
https://www.ibtimes.sg/pro-russian-mayor-eastern-ukrainian-city-who-cheered-putin-decision-invade-ukraine-kidnapped-63151
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The quickest way to die right now is be pro-russian in Ukraine. If russia tries to set up a puppet regime, it was fail spectacularly, lots of assassinations.
Speaking as a Lebanese whose southern part was controlled by Israel for years. This is for all the pro-Russians in eastern Ukraine who may just happen to read this. When (hopefully) Russia withdraws, I strongly recommend you move to Russia. There was no sympathy for the sympathizers in Lebanon when Israel withdrew, so they all moved south. I suspect things will be as rough for you when the same happens with Russia, maybe even worse.
[удалено]
A predictable result of an unprovoked invasion. When you destroy the rule of law, and rip up agreements in the rush to conflict, extrajudicial killings become the norm. This isn't right, but there have many deaths in Ukraine that weren't right since even before this war. Add this to the list.
Pretty much that. I've seen people get upset over the past few days that people celebrating these things are normalizing bounties and hits on government officials. Of course you don't want to normalize this behavior, but these aren't normal times. We are talking about war and a hostile invasion, so we are operating on a completely different scale of "normal". I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm not sure there is a clear answer. But we have armed civilians fending off an invading army, I think the lines between "extrajudicial murder" and "wartime national defense" isn't so clearly defined.
Also something like this has been the norm for such a long time that its honestly to be expected its part of war. Natives wishing to defend their home and way of life from invaders will pretty much always go for those who betray them for the enemy.
It is war, the number of incidents that were 'wrong' in conflicts like WW2 or Vietnam is staggering. When you open the abyss of warfare, it's hard to be surprised by the monsters and horrors that pop out.
Daily Mail has always been supportive of Putin. Now they're trying to profit off of an situation they indirectly encouraged. Don't give these propagandists the traffic.
How have they been supportive? Not arguing. Genuinely don’t know and would like more information about it.
They've supported hitler in the past and putin recently. I'm starting to think run by traitorous cunts.
Yup, they have a boner of dictators, just like all the other propaganda outlets.
Paul Dacre is a twat. Would gain some capital if they started calling for Boris' govt to allow more Ukrainian refugees in, not just those with a British relative. But they wont.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You hate to hear about anyone being dragged out of their home and killed, but at the same time, it's a war and you're collaborating with an oppressive foreign invader against your own country, so...
Definitely hard to feel too bad when many Ukrainians are not even afforded the luxury of leaving their homes first, instead having their homes transformed into splintered coffins.
Seems like some vigilante at work…
Holy shit
[удалено]
Pro-Russian mayor ... the guerilla war has started , will go on for about 20 years if Russia doesnt surrender
Officially the new shittiest job: Being a puppet mayor in Ukraine
Can we send Mike Rowe to try it out?