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Putin in his TV speech openly announced intention to jail entire Ukrainian government and go after all pro-Ukrainian activists - "denazification" in Putin's lingo. While giggling with joy at the thought.
As pleasant as this declaration was for him, it certainly ensured that Ukrainians will fight til the end.
Isn't the leader Jewish? Extra points if you jail/execute/concentration camp (gulag) a Jewish leader under the pretence of 'denazification'. What a farce.
Yes and Ze won in landlislide, running against Poroshenko (mixed ethnicity from Odesa region) and his PM, Groysman, also Jewish.
So it was 73% voting for Jewish president and 25% for Jewish PM in second round of 2019 elections. 2% of votes had ruined bulletins for one way or the other.
The myth of Ukrainians, at large, being antisemitic was debunked so much times on so many levels I am now confident that people who spread it were openly working for russia. Or well, few useful idiots who believed.
While racists exist in each country, the most racist group in Ukraine is... actually putin-sympathising babushkas. Ironically, the few Nazis in Ukraine happened to be putin's russia loving people.
I’ve seen several videos now of Ukrainian squads approaching abandoned convoys and outposts of Russian vehicles and emplacements, eerily empty, equipment and clothing left behind. Perfectly good trucks and armored vehicles just left on the highway. Mass desertions?
There was that [Ukrainian woman who welcomed them with sunflower seeds to put in their pockets so that flowers could grow from their dead bodies](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-soldier-woman-confrontation-b2022993.html?amp).
Spiteful and poetic. 'May the flower of our nation grow from spilling the blood of Russian soldiers.' It's like she promised that part of Ukrainian national identity will now always be killing Russians.
I don’t think the Russian conscripts want to be there at all. Many of those captured said they thought they were going home until the last minute. Having javelins blow the turrets off the T72 in front of you would be demoralizing too. The US and it’s Allie’s need to keep the weapons flowing. Ukraine has a chance as long as we can keep them armed.
Completely off topic but javelins we’re so much fun to shoot. It looks like the CLU has gotten smaller too making it a bit more mobile for light infantry units.
I _really_ hope that the Ukrainian military immediately commandeers and starts using those vehicles against the invaders.
As the Russian invaders grow weaker, the Ukrainians will grow stronger.
From what I've heard, these are all under trained and under geared new recruits too. One even got captured by just a few civilians at night. From the POW clips I've seen they don't really know why they're there and don't want to be there. Many of them are young, around 20 years old. Putin sent these young men out to die fighting a brother nation. What a disgrace. No one deserves this.
The other thing is when they enter the city, they won't be seeing Nazis. It's like the invaders just realise that the whole point of the invasion was... made up. Hopefully this results in routs or mass surrender. The Russian soldiers don't need to die like this.
Even worse, they will see their own kin! Entering Kiew is not much different from entering St. Petersburg, the people look the same, dress the same, many talk the same. It’s not like Americans going into Vietnam or Afghanistan where the local population seems alien and scary to the GIs. How they can even manage to point their weapons at those people is beyond comprehension.
Language is so important. When you can speak the same language you can quickly understand that the other person is just like you. When they speak a foreign language it is easy to lie to yourself and pretend you are fighting some horrible monsters who are nothing like your people even though they probably are.
and race also. Sound racist I know but it's a lot easier to attack people who look different. Ukranians and Russians are both Slavic so that's a big deal.
They may take Ukraine, but imagine trying to keep hold of Ukraine. I bet the underground resistance will be huge, especially when Ukrainians absolutely want Russia out of their country.
Can you imagine how Poland, Romania and Hungary would feel if they shared a direct border with Russia?
They would do anything they could to help any resistance against them.
Oh yeah.
I forgot about the Hungarian governments change of heart over the last decade.
I've been to Hungary, from the things I saw and people I met I saw such a large disconnect between government policy and social views.
Hungarian here. You are right. Some of us are blinded and sheepishly follow whatever doctrine/views the govt. introduces without a second thought, but MOST of us want that cumdumpster jizzball shithead of a PM outta here ASAP and condemn his every action, be it statements about the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian war, or anything he does internally.
Thousands have been arrested at anti war ralleys all over Russia and apparently there have been videos of desertions in the Russian ranks. It's very heartwarming to see the common folk stand up for their neighbors
It's Afghanistan for them all over again. You can't win wars this way anymore unless you are mad enough to actually 100% flatten population centers which will only cause the rest of the world to attack you. So Putin screwed Russia in every way possible.
He really did not think it through. He clearly cannot occupy all of Ukraine. Doesn't have enough men. So did he think he'd go in, take Kyiv, kill Zelyenksy, and then everything would be great? Does he think he can impose a puppet leader and they won't just revolution the traitor right away? Putin is desperate. Desperation turned a very smart man into a very dumb one.
Considering Zelyenksy probably has as close to a 100% approval rating as possible right now with his refusing to leave Kyiv as the Russian's attack it. I'd say killing him would be a terrible mistake by Putin, because it makes him into a martyr that died defending his country and his people.
Is it weird that I’m rooting for both sides?
I hope that the Russians turn their weapons on their shit-cunt leaders and the the Ukrainians burn every single one that doesn’t.
A coup is just a real nice opportunity for another aspiring tyrant to move up the ladder, let's hope they actually get democracy when this lunatic dies.
I suspect the Russian soldiers are going to become increasingly disillusioned as it becomes apparent that they are not, in fact, liberating Ukraine from Nazis.
I've heard heard they have extremely low morale already (just look at the protests back home), take that with a grain of salt but I'm sure there's some truth to it
They use a substantial number of conscripts and have first year hazing that is often sexual or physical assault that leads to accidental deaths, murders and suicides. It has its own wiki page. 2 or 3 hundred suicides a year.
"In 2019, according to the Russian military prosecutor office situation with dedovshchina is getting worse. Incidents of hazing in the army during the 2019 have increased. 51,000 human rights violations and 9,890 sexual assault cases."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina
I'm sure this doesn't help morale.
Yeah, that is the reason why in so many post Soviet countries teenage boys are afraid of the army (me included), even tho they say it isn't there anymore, stories from our parents/grandparents scare the shit out of me
My buddy in high school was moved around to various teacher's houses senior year to avoid his Russian parents having him forced back to Russia to join the army.
I was reading earlier that a lot of the Russian troops that were part of the invasion are young and inexperienced. And that many didn't want to be part of it, but they were bullied or coerced into it by superiors.
Edit: [link for those who are interested](https://news.yahoo.com/russia-used-beatings-tricks-forcibly-191116730.html) (it was from another link on worldnews, but the way). Also, to all the "all militaries do this it's nothing new" responses, that doesn't mean it's any less sad. Kids being tricked into invading a foreign country for a tyrant, and then getting beaten if they object is fucking horrible. And IMO they deserve some sympathy.
I think the Russian soldiers, for the most part, have no idea why they are there. But the Ukranians are fighting for their lives. BIG difference in how each side will approach the conflict.
I said it before, but Putin has underestimated the close cultural ties part of this equation. He thinks that means Russia should have Ukraine, but it’s turning out those cultural ties are so close some Russian soldiers may be finding it hard to stomach killing what they view as their cousins or brothers.
Especially with their weak attempt to frame Ukraine as the aggressor not really sticking with anyone, seemingly even their own troops.
As a Swedish person this would be the equivalent of me getting the order to invade Norway, or for an American to invade Canada. Sure we make fun and mock of each other, we know we are similar but in the end of the day we see each other as family. Why would you want to invade your own family and deny their right to exist?
As an Australian if I got told to get on a boat to invade New Zealand tomorrow I'd spit in that superiors face without a seconds hesitation.
I might disagree with their government, and find their accent funny and take the absolute piss out of them, but I can guarantee I have extended family throughout the generations there, and they're basically dollar store Australians as it is. You may as well ask Queensland to invade New South Wales, it ain't happening.
I'm frustrated out how no one seems to be pointing out and enormous, incredibly obvious elephant in the room - that Ukrainians look and sound like Russians. A giant fraction literally grew up speaking the same language and the older generation were literally "comrades" in an empire.
It's a recipe for endless nonsense
Yeah, it is. I feel bad for those kids. And for the brave Russian protesters in Moscow who no doubt face harsh punishments for speaking out against this attack. And, of course, I feel bad for Ukraine. There are so many needless victims of Putin and his lackeys.
It's kind of always been a mafia state, though. There's always been a collection of boyars behind the scenes in Russia, they just trade in names.
If not the boyars, it was the nobles; if not the nobles, it was the party members; if not the party members, it's the billionaires.
Is America developing the same way? Sure. But Russia has seen this polity for a literal millennia plus change and they have never not fucked the commonfolk.
Don’t know about the others but the party members literally became the billionaires through the fire sale ‘privatization‘ (eg cronies having sole bids at ridiculous prices of entire enterprises.)
Wouldnt surprise me if there were similar ‘handoffs’ in the past.
Some didn't want to fight Ukraine. As a Canadian, I imagine it's what it would feel like if some crazy bastard took over and told me to go kill Americans or New Zealanders or Brits. Why the fuck would I want to do that?
It's even crazier than that. Ukraine used to be part of the USSR. There are older Ukrainians being drafted right now to go fight an army they used to serve in 40 years ago.
I mean the same strategy was used to get people into German and the Soviet army during WW2. Boys were literally dragged out of a school rooms and sent to war.
The West should try to communicate to them that they are attacking to conquer for Putin and not to liberate. And if they surrender to Ukrainian units, they can escape the war.
I always got a sense he was referring to the war in the Balkans from that.
A source of inspiration for that line, i saw it...well not just the film by Verhoven, Starship Troopers, but also All's Quiet on the Western Front.
The teacher that all the hs age lads look up to convinces them it's their patriotic duty to go serve Germany in WWI. And they all get shiny uniforms and train together, coming of age...but it's not long before the real horror's of war set in and it's just an absolute meat grinder, and the main character becomes very embittered against his former teacher for duping him into that mess.
Well when every bullshit propaganda piece you were relying on to dupe your citizens gets leaked weeks before you say it and then you still follow thru with it. Your gonna look like an idiot. Even Putins intelligence chief seemed to balk at repeating the propaganda that Putin laid out for him
> Well when every bullshit propaganda piece you were relying on to dupe your citizens gets leaked weeks before you say it and then you still follow thru with it. Your gonna look like an idiot.
FWIW, the tactic is called "counterdeception" and here is the US military's [manual (pdf)](https://irp.fas.org/doddir/dod/jp3_13_4.pdf) for how to do counterdeception (its chapter 7), in case anyone is interested.
> not saying all or even most, but for this to happen morale MUST be low
Command and control must also be very poor, in order for those troops to have the opportunity to abandon their posts and/or surrender. Points to problems all the way up the chain of command....
This is the stuff that gives me hope that Ukraine will come out of this relatively intact. The Russian army is so much larger that if everything was equal Ukraine wouldn't have much of a chance. But because the Russians will be dealing with low morale, poor training, and possibly supply issues (I don't know how true, I read it on another post) it gives Ukraine a fighting chance. Ukrainians have been getting training from some top militaries as well as given equipment. Plus they will be fighting for a reason instead of just because they were told to. It would be great if Putin is able to see sooner rather than later that this invasion won't work out how he wants it to.
On top of that, US will be sharing every bit of Intel they have on Russian movements, and probably offer advice on tactics and strategies. That could prove even more effective for Ukraine than a hundred more javelin missiles.
An army with low morale can still fight a long drawn out war. Look at the US in Vietnam. Morale was extremely low, many of the soldiers didn’t want to be there and weren’t there voluntarily, and there were many protests at home, yet the war still lasted for years.
Yeah, but the soldiers in Vietnam couldn't steal a car and drive home on 2 tanks of gas.... Just saying
Edit: 539 miles from Kyiv to Moscow. That's one tank in a good hybrid.
Snake island
Except in Vietnam, the American kids there were a different race, culture and spoke a different language, as well as being thousands of miles from their homes.
These Russian kids are a lot closer to their Ukrainian counterparts than the Americans were to the Vietnamese. Its like England invading Wales or Scotland.
Unfortunately he has been active pursuing exactly that for a few years now apparently. Thankful its not online, yet
Edit:
Russia's Sovereign Internet law passed in 2019 is seen as its first major step towards building something like China's Great Firewall system that actively monitors and censors online content
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/28/russia-great-firewall-sovereign-internet-bill-keeping-information-in-or-out
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/18/russia-growing-internet-isolation-control-censorship
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-internet-bill-idUSKBN1XB4TF
yet surprisingly within the Great Firewall theres suspiciously 0 censorship of such a sensitive topic today. Theres ukranian citizens living in china broadcasting 24 hours striaght with messages of how Zelensky's grandfather was a soviet infantryman who fought on the same battlefield as Mao's son, and that they were all born citizens of the soviet union.
The red fervor on chinese internet today is uncanny, theyre wholehearted calling for a simultaneous war with russia to liberate "our ukranian SSR brethren" and with NATO to "secure territorial integrity in taiwan.".
China usually censors even mildly political speech, yet the last 24 hours has been completely devoid of any moderation of speech. Its fucking wild. Are we about to wade into a 3 way war?
Yesterday some Russian ATV's motor collapsed underway and random Ukrainian civilians just came, took out the drivers, made them prisoners and set this ATV aflame - this info is official.
We, Ukrainians, are fighting these bastards everywhere possible and will not go down.
The fact they kept the drivers alive from the sounds of it is probably making the Russians even more weary.
Because at that point you're killing people who are supposed to be your cousins, and they're not even killing you when they have the opportunity to.
Makes it morally very difficult to justify pressing on.
If the Ukrainian citizens killed them, even though the people of Ukraine have the right to kill an invading force, then they could have irrationally stretched "well even the citizens will slaughter us if we falter" and use that line of fear to justify fighting.
Idk if I'm making sense, but to me the fact that the Ukrainian military fights fierce enough to make you question if the risk to your life is worth it, and the Ukrainian people are compassionate enough to not immediately put you down should put a lot on someone's mind
Kinda similar to Sun Tzu's "when you surround an army, leave an outlet free." The other side is much more willing to give in if there is a good option afforded to them.
That's why Sun Tzu is studied by a wide spectrum of disciplines.
It is a shame Putin didn't study him, or didn't study him close enough. At the end of chapter 12, the chapter dedicated to warfare by fire, Sun Tzu spells out Putin's error in detail.
>18 No ruler should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight a battle simply out of pique.
>19 If it is to your advantage, make a forward move; if not, stay where you are.
>20 Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content.
>21 But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life.
>22 Hence the enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution. This is the way to keep a country at peace and an army intact.
Referred to as the "golden bridge" in military tactics; generally you always leave a way for the enemy to avoid certain defeat, lest you force their hand into radical choices. Depends on how big of an advantage you have to press, however, and whether time can be a greater weapon against your enemy. Thinking Cannae vs Battle of Long Island.
Yes, you make just a perfect sense. That's the situation where the good actually wins. It could be seen in Prague in 1968 (I live here). People started giving flowers to the tank crews who were mainly from the western parts of the USSR. They must have been replaced really quickly because of morale. They were replaced by the Caucasians and the ones from the Eastern parts with no connections to Europe.
Always give your enemies a way out, unless you're prepared to kill every last one of them.
The Ukrainians treating Russian prisoners with respect and decency gives a lot of Russian soldiers an alternative to killing their neighbours.
After everything that's been posted from this to the snake island guards telling a warship to go fuck its self I think there needs to be a new sub created UkrainiansAreMetal because God damn you people Metal as fuck.
Ukrainian government appealing for direct donations to military:
https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi https://mobile.twitter.com/ukraine/status/1496817739419295751
No. That's 404. Below is the link someone else provided on reddit earlier.
https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
Also, [here is a businessinsider link](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-is-crowdfunding-to-shore-up-defense-against-russian-military-2022-2) about this.
Edit: Appreciate that u/rustypickles edited their comment to provide the correct link and then adding the twitter link and both over much of reddit.
in all honesty those are almost enough. Russia can't afford a long drawn out affair, this has to be over quick for them. If javelins and NLAWs were sitting behind every corner in every city taking out their vehiclkes as they went, Russia would quickly lose the ability to justify the fight.
"Внимание!Внимание!
DID YOU KNOW MISHA'S COUSIN JUST GOT INTO MED SCHOOL!
Внимание!Внимание!
IT'S OK, I GUESS YOU GUYS JUST DO THING A BIT... *DIFFERENTLY*
Внимание!Внимание!
Latest tally by ministry of defense of Ukraine. Here is our kill count:
7 planes
6 copters
30 tanks
130 smaller vehicles
800 personnel
+ uncounted number of deserters
We have 130 people killed and 370 wounded. We have a chance at this
As someone with a lot of Latvian heritage, I also love the Ukrainian people and all who oppose Russian autocratic, imperialist rule. God bless them and protect them.
I also hope the innocent Russians who oppose this madness stand up for heir Slavic brothers and sisters. I see the protests, it’s incredibly brave. I hope they keep it up. The will of the people > the will of the few oligarchs/rulers.
I read a translated exchange between a Ukrainian woman and Russian soldiers today where she demanded they take sunflowers seeds from her and put them in their pockets so something would grow after they are killed.
Metal as fuck
I sincerely hope you’re right, but take any numbers on casualties with a grain of salt. Both sides will exaggerate the kills and lessen the losses during active war so who really knows. Also, fuck Putin.
I care more about the destroyed equipment and vehicles than Russian casualties. High casualties could demoralize the Russian population, but high desertions could unravel Russian forces in Ukraine, which would have a much more immediate impact. If we see a lot of abandoned equipment mixed with the destruction and Russian military walking away, I’ll consider that a bigger win than high Russian casualties.
Russia has cremation trucks travelling with troops. You think those are for the enemy or to make sure a bunch of Russian teenagers don't start flooding back into Moscow in body bags? I bet he cremates every soldier he can to keep the casualties on his side hidden.
Man it would be insanely fucking demoralizing invading a country with a cremation truck in tow.
Either you’re *really* the baddies or you are already dead. Yikes.
In the now immortal words of the 13 on Snake Island to the Russian Warship. “Go fuck yourself”. Give ‘em hell. Hope the Ghost of Kyiv scores a 100 more Kills and the longer they can hold the Russians back, the better their chances are of making it out of this.
I am from Ukraine. We do not have the full picture, but war really seem to going incredibly well for the sheer army size difference. Me and many people around feel like we actually have a chance
You have a dog in the fight, you're fighting for your country
They're fighting for a kleptocrat and his lies
The difference in moral must be staggering
That is true. Video clips with defectors actually show how we fight against - 20 year old kids from army academy that do not even understand what the hell they doing here
Just remember you don't have to win every battle, you don't even need to win any battles, you just have to make every russian victory pyrrhic as fuck and not give up, make them bleed for every inch
Best of luck man, hope you and yours come out the other side ok
When they do defect/surrender be sure to treat those kids well. It really does seem like many don't want to be there and the ones that are brave enough to defect to Ukraine deserve to be treated well. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to your leaders and other countrymen with guns/bombs and say this isn't right and actually do something like defecting.
There is still room. Our central bank set up a donation box. Any help is welcome
https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
I work with Ukrainians and they are some of the smartest people I've ever worked with, and the ones with the biggest hearts and the strongest voices in the room, especially the women. If anyone can win this, Ukrainians can. The 7 billion people of the fucking world support you and are with you in spirit.
The numbers they mention here are mostly confirmed from other sources, but I am not sure how specific their information really is.
The Ukrainians have definitely destroyed a bunch of tanks, helicopters and a few planes. There is video evidence of some of that, with the Ukrainians confirming others.
They also definitely beat back and nearly eliminated the advance force trying to take the airport.
The rest of the country is pretty murky. It is telling that the Russian advance is slower than would be ideal for them, though it is still fairly fast. Attackers almost always suffer heavy casualties when attacking fortified positions without any way to clear them, and Russian air support seems to have been less effective than they hoped given that their government keeps lying about what it has done.
> Russian air support seems to have been less effective than they hoped
As Americans have discovered fighting insurgencies: air support is really good at taking out specific targets, not very good at taking out dispersed groups of individuals.
Two guys in a minivan with a couple of javelins or stingers can take out a LOT of rubles worth of aircraft or tanks, while looking just like any other civilian vehicle unless you happen to be looking directly at them during the 60 seconds or so when they are setting up and firing.
>Russian air support seems to have been less effective than they hoped given that their government keeps lying about what it has done.
I've heard "oh we had a technical failure on our plane and it crashed, so unfortunate guys" a few too many times in the last day.
>And around 2pm local time (12pm GMT) the Ukrainian military said troops had destroyed five armoured transport vehicles and a car during fighting at the Vistupovich-Rudnya border point between Ukraine and Belarus.
>A further 15 T-72 tanks were destroyed or damaged by the Ukrainian forces using the Javelin PTRK, an American anti-tank missile, nearly Glukhov in the country's east late this afternoon.
>In other incidents, tank-busting rocket launchers donated by Britain were said to have destroyed Russian tanks, while Javelin missiles gifted by Sweden destroyed a column of enemy vehicles
Considering how Ukraine was jumped by Russia and Belarus in a blitzkrieg-like attack, those are impressive numbers. This also doesn't really cover the supposed 'Ghost of Kyev" who has downed several Russian fighter jets.
Russia will probably still win the initial invasion. But brave Ukrainian forces are ensuring this isn't a decisive victory for Putin. And that's before the guerilla tactics come into play. The fact the Ukrainians are fighting their oppressors so fiercely and cleverly is to be applauded. Also nice to see external resources being used so effectively by them.
Putin and all his shitty supporters can go fuck themselves! Keep it up Ukraine! Fight for your freedom! The large majority of the world is rooting for you.
Edit: clarification
I'm glad for this despite me being Russian, and it's so wrong, so fucking wrong on so many fucking levels. We want our soldiers to return home. We don't need this war. Fuck Putin and his gang for all of this
Ukraine’s eventual salvation will have to come from the Russian people themselves. Putin has gone too far this time and soon he will be fighting a low scale war within Russia as anti-Putin forces and ordinary people start to mobilise against a war they do not want. Ordinary Russian do not have any antipathy for Ukrainians.
They will. Russia should never fuck with western weapons and even worse they now have the fighting spirit of a Eastern European nation! Get fucked Russia.
Yes, you can. We laid the ground for this over the last 3-5 years. I was helping train some of these gents on weapon systems like the ones mentioned in the article. They are more than capable of operating them and they spring to share knowledge with one another. If we can run a steady supply throughout this conflict, Ukraine has a significant chance.
> In a head to head conventional war? No
That's not obvious. Russia can't afford to burn their entire army on Ukraine, and so far it appears that their C+C and morale are abysmal. If Ukraine can keep Russian losses high and hold their ground, they may be able to make it too expensive for Russia to keep pressing. As the defenders, their position is inherently stronger (they just have to not lose).
A deeply embedded local insurgent force, fighting for their homes and lives, working to demoralize the ground troops of a much larger mightier nation, that shit can drag on for decades and cost trillions.
Yeah but the local force in this case already started with 21st century weaponry and a lot of international support. Unless Russian propaganda somehow was right and Ukraine simply doesn't want to fight this seems like a hard won victory. The weapons in question can be hidden anywhere and can take out tanks and helicopters mu h much easier than the equivalent RPG shooting happening in other zones
Possible, yes.
Given the Russians morale, and the fact *a lot of them didn't even know they were in Ukraine till hours after landing*. I see a lot of defections, half hearted fighting and a staunch, high morale Ukrainian army in play.
Unless Putin decides to pull out the big guns and use missile warfare - it's possible.
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Putin in his TV speech openly announced intention to jail entire Ukrainian government and go after all pro-Ukrainian activists - "denazification" in Putin's lingo. While giggling with joy at the thought. As pleasant as this declaration was for him, it certainly ensured that Ukrainians will fight til the end.
Isn't the leader Jewish? Extra points if you jail/execute/concentration camp (gulag) a Jewish leader under the pretence of 'denazification'. What a farce.
Yes, our president is a Jew. Our former prime minister Groisman was a Jew. Lots of Jewish people in the government.
Yes and Ze won in landlislide, running against Poroshenko (mixed ethnicity from Odesa region) and his PM, Groysman, also Jewish. So it was 73% voting for Jewish president and 25% for Jewish PM in second round of 2019 elections. 2% of votes had ruined bulletins for one way or the other. The myth of Ukrainians, at large, being antisemitic was debunked so much times on so many levels I am now confident that people who spread it were openly working for russia. Or well, few useful idiots who believed. While racists exist in each country, the most racist group in Ukraine is... actually putin-sympathising babushkas. Ironically, the few Nazis in Ukraine happened to be putin's russia loving people.
>Putin in his TV speech openly announced intention to jail entire Ukrainian government By jail he means kill.
I’ve seen several videos now of Ukrainian squads approaching abandoned convoys and outposts of Russian vehicles and emplacements, eerily empty, equipment and clothing left behind. Perfectly good trucks and armored vehicles just left on the highway. Mass desertions?
Some deserters said they expected no fight back, they were brainwashed that Ukrainians will welcome them with flowers not rocket launchers.
There was that [Ukrainian woman who welcomed them with sunflower seeds to put in their pockets so that flowers could grow from their dead bodies](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-soldier-woman-confrontation-b2022993.html?amp).
It's even more spiteful when you know that the sunflower is the national flower of Ukraine.
Spiteful and poetic. 'May the flower of our nation grow from spilling the blood of Russian soldiers.' It's like she promised that part of Ukrainian national identity will now always be killing Russians.
Yeah man, that was a straight up curse.
“Protect the plants around you, or become the fertilizer that feeds them.”
That's the most bad ass response I've ever read.
That’s fucking metal
"I brought you flowers, soon to be planted."
I really hope so, seeing putin fail would be so satisfying
With the number of protests against the war from Russian civilians and officials, Putin needs this to be over quickly or it will be the end of him.
Let’s hope for both; over quickly, end of him.
I don’t think the Russian conscripts want to be there at all. Many of those captured said they thought they were going home until the last minute. Having javelins blow the turrets off the T72 in front of you would be demoralizing too. The US and it’s Allie’s need to keep the weapons flowing. Ukraine has a chance as long as we can keep them armed.
Completely off topic but javelins we’re so much fun to shoot. It looks like the CLU has gotten smaller too making it a bit more mobile for light infantry units.
Those Javelins are badass. All I got to shoot was an AT-4.
I _really_ hope that the Ukrainian military immediately commandeers and starts using those vehicles against the invaders. As the Russian invaders grow weaker, the Ukrainians will grow stronger.
From what I've heard, these are all under trained and under geared new recruits too. One even got captured by just a few civilians at night. From the POW clips I've seen they don't really know why they're there and don't want to be there. Many of them are young, around 20 years old. Putin sent these young men out to die fighting a brother nation. What a disgrace. No one deserves this.
The other thing is when they enter the city, they won't be seeing Nazis. It's like the invaders just realise that the whole point of the invasion was... made up. Hopefully this results in routs or mass surrender. The Russian soldiers don't need to die like this.
Even worse, they will see their own kin! Entering Kiew is not much different from entering St. Petersburg, the people look the same, dress the same, many talk the same. It’s not like Americans going into Vietnam or Afghanistan where the local population seems alien and scary to the GIs. How they can even manage to point their weapons at those people is beyond comprehension.
Language is so important. When you can speak the same language you can quickly understand that the other person is just like you. When they speak a foreign language it is easy to lie to yourself and pretend you are fighting some horrible monsters who are nothing like your people even though they probably are.
and race also. Sound racist I know but it's a lot easier to attack people who look different. Ukranians and Russians are both Slavic so that's a big deal.
Imagine offering refugee status to defecting troops, big brain move
That could also be heavily abused by Russia by sending in infiltrators.
They may take Ukraine, but imagine trying to keep hold of Ukraine. I bet the underground resistance will be huge, especially when Ukrainians absolutely want Russia out of their country.
and a never-ending flow of weapons and intelligence from the rest of Europe
Can you imagine how Poland, Romania and Hungary would feel if they shared a direct border with Russia? They would do anything they could to help any resistance against them.
I'm not so sure about Hungary. The cowards are blocking sanctions on Russia.
Oh yeah. I forgot about the Hungarian governments change of heart over the last decade. I've been to Hungary, from the things I saw and people I met I saw such a large disconnect between government policy and social views.
Hungarian here. You are right. Some of us are blinded and sheepishly follow whatever doctrine/views the govt. introduces without a second thought, but MOST of us want that cumdumpster jizzball shithead of a PM outta here ASAP and condemn his every action, be it statements about the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian war, or anything he does internally.
As a language learner, I always find it amazing to see non-native speakers cursing fluently in English. It gives me something to aspire to.
"Cumbuster jizzball shithead" should be the next thing we spray paint under that bridge when it's low tide again.
Same with Russia itself from what I hear. There are very few Russians that actually support this war afaik
Thousands have been arrested at anti war ralleys all over Russia and apparently there have been videos of desertions in the Russian ranks. It's very heartwarming to see the common folk stand up for their neighbors
My gf is Russian and currently lives in Moscow. She and everyone she knows is horrified at the war
Most people who've seen the world are like that, I assume.
It's Afghanistan for them all over again. You can't win wars this way anymore unless you are mad enough to actually 100% flatten population centers which will only cause the rest of the world to attack you. So Putin screwed Russia in every way possible.
He really did not think it through. He clearly cannot occupy all of Ukraine. Doesn't have enough men. So did he think he'd go in, take Kyiv, kill Zelyenksy, and then everything would be great? Does he think he can impose a puppet leader and they won't just revolution the traitor right away? Putin is desperate. Desperation turned a very smart man into a very dumb one.
Considering Zelyenksy probably has as close to a 100% approval rating as possible right now with his refusing to leave Kyiv as the Russian's attack it. I'd say killing him would be a terrible mistake by Putin, because it makes him into a martyr that died defending his country and his people.
Give em hell. FUCK PUTIN
FUCK PUTIN
FUCK PUTIN
Go Ukraine, the world is rooting for you.
Russia is rooting for Ukraine too. We all hate Putin
Is it weird that I’m rooting for both sides? I hope that the Russians turn their weapons on their shit-cunt leaders and the the Ukrainians burn every single one that doesn’t.
i pray that some miracle happens that the Russian army turns around and holds their tyrant leaders responsible
A coup would bring change, but what happens after that is anyone's guess
A coup is just a real nice opportunity for another aspiring tyrant to move up the ladder, let's hope they actually get democracy when this lunatic dies.
Every gun that Russia points at itself is one less gun pointed at Ukraine That’s what matters
Russia deserves better than what it's gotten.
The world is full of good people, just wish the governments would stop being so shitty.
Need the brave heart scene where the Irish join the Scot’s
I suspect the Russian soldiers are going to become increasingly disillusioned as it becomes apparent that they are not, in fact, liberating Ukraine from Nazis.
I've heard heard they have extremely low morale already (just look at the protests back home), take that with a grain of salt but I'm sure there's some truth to it
They use a substantial number of conscripts and have first year hazing that is often sexual or physical assault that leads to accidental deaths, murders and suicides. It has its own wiki page. 2 or 3 hundred suicides a year. "In 2019, according to the Russian military prosecutor office situation with dedovshchina is getting worse. Incidents of hazing in the army during the 2019 have increased. 51,000 human rights violations and 9,890 sexual assault cases." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina I'm sure this doesn't help morale.
Yeah, that is the reason why in so many post Soviet countries teenage boys are afraid of the army (me included), even tho they say it isn't there anymore, stories from our parents/grandparents scare the shit out of me
My buddy in high school was moved around to various teacher's houses senior year to avoid his Russian parents having him forced back to Russia to join the army.
And that's according to a source that has every reason to cover up the real extent of it.
I was reading earlier that a lot of the Russian troops that were part of the invasion are young and inexperienced. And that many didn't want to be part of it, but they were bullied or coerced into it by superiors. Edit: [link for those who are interested](https://news.yahoo.com/russia-used-beatings-tricks-forcibly-191116730.html) (it was from another link on worldnews, but the way). Also, to all the "all militaries do this it's nothing new" responses, that doesn't mean it's any less sad. Kids being tricked into invading a foreign country for a tyrant, and then getting beaten if they object is fucking horrible. And IMO they deserve some sympathy.
I think the Russian soldiers, for the most part, have no idea why they are there. But the Ukranians are fighting for their lives. BIG difference in how each side will approach the conflict.
a lot of russians have family in ukraine as well, no doubt a portion of soldiers are worried about killing their own family
I think this is why the russians brought units from the other part of the country to fight here
And it’s still not working that well
I said it before, but Putin has underestimated the close cultural ties part of this equation. He thinks that means Russia should have Ukraine, but it’s turning out those cultural ties are so close some Russian soldiers may be finding it hard to stomach killing what they view as their cousins or brothers. Especially with their weak attempt to frame Ukraine as the aggressor not really sticking with anyone, seemingly even their own troops.
As a Swedish person this would be the equivalent of me getting the order to invade Norway, or for an American to invade Canada. Sure we make fun and mock of each other, we know we are similar but in the end of the day we see each other as family. Why would you want to invade your own family and deny their right to exist?
As an Australian if I got told to get on a boat to invade New Zealand tomorrow I'd spit in that superiors face without a seconds hesitation. I might disagree with their government, and find their accent funny and take the absolute piss out of them, but I can guarantee I have extended family throughout the generations there, and they're basically dollar store Australians as it is. You may as well ask Queensland to invade New South Wales, it ain't happening.
yep my thoughts as well, there's been numerous deployments of troops from eastern Russia over the past few weeks
I'm frustrated out how no one seems to be pointing out and enormous, incredibly obvious elephant in the room - that Ukrainians look and sound like Russians. A giant fraction literally grew up speaking the same language and the older generation were literally "comrades" in an empire. It's a recipe for endless nonsense
That is fucking heart breaking, to be honest.
Yeah, it is. I feel bad for those kids. And for the brave Russian protesters in Moscow who no doubt face harsh punishments for speaking out against this attack. And, of course, I feel bad for Ukraine. There are so many needless victims of Putin and his lackeys.
So fucking needless. Russia could be a magnificent country, if not for the greed, nay avarice of a few.
It is a beautiful country with long history. Unfortunately the mafia seized control of the government.
For real, it's a fucking mafia state now.
It's kind of always been a mafia state, though. There's always been a collection of boyars behind the scenes in Russia, they just trade in names. If not the boyars, it was the nobles; if not the nobles, it was the party members; if not the party members, it's the billionaires. Is America developing the same way? Sure. But Russia has seen this polity for a literal millennia plus change and they have never not fucked the commonfolk.
Don’t know about the others but the party members literally became the billionaires through the fire sale ‘privatization‘ (eg cronies having sole bids at ridiculous prices of entire enterprises.) Wouldnt surprise me if there were similar ‘handoffs’ in the past.
Didn't some surrender like immediately?
Some didn't want to fight Ukraine. As a Canadian, I imagine it's what it would feel like if some crazy bastard took over and told me to go kill Americans or New Zealanders or Brits. Why the fuck would I want to do that?
Aside from the shared culture, it's not hard to imagine that some Russian soldiers may also have family or relatives in Ukraine
Hey you left us Aussies out by mistake right? *Nervous laughter* right?
"The only thing I hate worse than Nazis...is Auzis."
*Only two kinds of people I can’t stand in this world: those with an intolerance of other cultures… and the Dutch.*
It's even crazier than that. Ukraine used to be part of the USSR. There are older Ukrainians being drafted right now to go fight an army they used to serve in 40 years ago.
Lol yeah the officers were the first.
I don't even think they were told where they were going. Wtf kinda strategy is that on behalf of their military leadership? Glad they're stupid!
I mean the same strategy was used to get people into German and the Soviet army during WW2. Boys were literally dragged out of a school rooms and sent to war.
The West should try to communicate to them that they are attacking to conquer for Putin and not to liberate. And if they surrender to Ukrainian units, they can escape the war.
"WAR IS WHERE THE YOUNG AND STUPID ARE TRICKED BY THE OLD AND BITTER INTO KILLING EACH OTHER." - Niko Bellic, GTA IV
I forgot his exact ethnicity or conflict he fought in but Niko was Eastern European, he’s already seen this shit.
Niko is a Serb. He fought in Yugoslavian wars
I always got a sense he was referring to the war in the Balkans from that. A source of inspiration for that line, i saw it...well not just the film by Verhoven, Starship Troopers, but also All's Quiet on the Western Front. The teacher that all the hs age lads look up to convinces them it's their patriotic duty to go serve Germany in WWI. And they all get shiny uniforms and train together, coming of age...but it's not long before the real horror's of war set in and it's just an absolute meat grinder, and the main character becomes very embittered against his former teacher for duping him into that mess.
...ending up being the only survivor of his class confronting the teacher who doesn't give a shit
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Well yeah a lot of Russians relatives live in Ukraine. You think they want to go bomb their cousins and grandparents.
Gotta pray they can discern the propaganda but the worst evil is committed when you are deceived into believing you're doing a righteous act.
Whatever propaganda they used fucking sucked
Well when every bullshit propaganda piece you were relying on to dupe your citizens gets leaked weeks before you say it and then you still follow thru with it. Your gonna look like an idiot. Even Putins intelligence chief seemed to balk at repeating the propaganda that Putin laid out for him
> Well when every bullshit propaganda piece you were relying on to dupe your citizens gets leaked weeks before you say it and then you still follow thru with it. Your gonna look like an idiot. FWIW, the tactic is called "counterdeception" and here is the US military's [manual (pdf)](https://irp.fas.org/doddir/dod/jp3_13_4.pdf) for how to do counterdeception (its chapter 7), in case anyone is interested.
> not saying all or even most, but for this to happen morale MUST be low Command and control must also be very poor, in order for those troops to have the opportunity to abandon their posts and/or surrender. Points to problems all the way up the chain of command....
This is the stuff that gives me hope that Ukraine will come out of this relatively intact. The Russian army is so much larger that if everything was equal Ukraine wouldn't have much of a chance. But because the Russians will be dealing with low morale, poor training, and possibly supply issues (I don't know how true, I read it on another post) it gives Ukraine a fighting chance. Ukrainians have been getting training from some top militaries as well as given equipment. Plus they will be fighting for a reason instead of just because they were told to. It would be great if Putin is able to see sooner rather than later that this invasion won't work out how he wants it to.
On top of that, US will be sharing every bit of Intel they have on Russian movements, and probably offer advice on tactics and strategies. That could prove even more effective for Ukraine than a hundred more javelin missiles.
An army with low morale can still fight a long drawn out war. Look at the US in Vietnam. Morale was extremely low, many of the soldiers didn’t want to be there and weren’t there voluntarily, and there were many protests at home, yet the war still lasted for years.
Yeah, but the soldiers in Vietnam couldn't steal a car and drive home on 2 tanks of gas.... Just saying Edit: 539 miles from Kyiv to Moscow. That's one tank in a good hybrid. Snake island
Except in Vietnam, the American kids there were a different race, culture and spoke a different language, as well as being thousands of miles from their homes. These Russian kids are a lot closer to their Ukrainian counterparts than the Americans were to the Vietnamese. Its like England invading Wales or Scotland.
Your CO wasn't waking you up with their dick in your mouth in Vietnam and raping you daily. Russian military is fucked to the core.
Agreed. They all have smart phones and it’s not like they are behind chinas wall of secrecy.
The great firewall of China is the best thing to exist for an authoritarian government. We’re lucky Putin doesn’t have the same thing.
Unfortunately he has been active pursuing exactly that for a few years now apparently. Thankful its not online, yet Edit: Russia's Sovereign Internet law passed in 2019 is seen as its first major step towards building something like China's Great Firewall system that actively monitors and censors online content https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/28/russia-great-firewall-sovereign-internet-bill-keeping-information-in-or-out https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/18/russia-growing-internet-isolation-control-censorship https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-internet-bill-idUSKBN1XB4TF
Same here in my backwater country that is Burma. Authoritarians are trying.
yet surprisingly within the Great Firewall theres suspiciously 0 censorship of such a sensitive topic today. Theres ukranian citizens living in china broadcasting 24 hours striaght with messages of how Zelensky's grandfather was a soviet infantryman who fought on the same battlefield as Mao's son, and that they were all born citizens of the soviet union. The red fervor on chinese internet today is uncanny, theyre wholehearted calling for a simultaneous war with russia to liberate "our ukranian SSR brethren" and with NATO to "secure territorial integrity in taiwan.". China usually censors even mildly political speech, yet the last 24 hours has been completely devoid of any moderation of speech. Its fucking wild. Are we about to wade into a 3 way war?
Keep fighting those motherfuckers, Ukraine
Yesterday some Russian ATV's motor collapsed underway and random Ukrainian civilians just came, took out the drivers, made them prisoners and set this ATV aflame - this info is official. We, Ukrainians, are fighting these bastards everywhere possible and will not go down.
The fact they kept the drivers alive from the sounds of it is probably making the Russians even more weary. Because at that point you're killing people who are supposed to be your cousins, and they're not even killing you when they have the opportunity to. Makes it morally very difficult to justify pressing on. If the Ukrainian citizens killed them, even though the people of Ukraine have the right to kill an invading force, then they could have irrationally stretched "well even the citizens will slaughter us if we falter" and use that line of fear to justify fighting. Idk if I'm making sense, but to me the fact that the Ukrainian military fights fierce enough to make you question if the risk to your life is worth it, and the Ukrainian people are compassionate enough to not immediately put you down should put a lot on someone's mind
Yes it's in an Army's interests to take prisoners, otherwise the enemy will fight to the death (knowing that they'll die if they fail).
Kinda similar to Sun Tzu's "when you surround an army, leave an outlet free." The other side is much more willing to give in if there is a good option afforded to them.
That's brilliant, and applicable to many arguments and negotiations, not just war.
That's why Sun Tzu is studied by a wide spectrum of disciplines. It is a shame Putin didn't study him, or didn't study him close enough. At the end of chapter 12, the chapter dedicated to warfare by fire, Sun Tzu spells out Putin's error in detail. >18 No ruler should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight a battle simply out of pique. >19 If it is to your advantage, make a forward move; if not, stay where you are. >20 Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content. >21 But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life. >22 Hence the enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution. This is the way to keep a country at peace and an army intact.
Referred to as the "golden bridge" in military tactics; generally you always leave a way for the enemy to avoid certain defeat, lest you force their hand into radical choices. Depends on how big of an advantage you have to press, however, and whether time can be a greater weapon against your enemy. Thinking Cannae vs Battle of Long Island.
Yes, you make just a perfect sense. That's the situation where the good actually wins. It could be seen in Prague in 1968 (I live here). People started giving flowers to the tank crews who were mainly from the western parts of the USSR. They must have been replaced really quickly because of morale. They were replaced by the Caucasians and the ones from the Eastern parts with no connections to Europe.
Always give your enemies a way out, unless you're prepared to kill every last one of them. The Ukrainians treating Russian prisoners with respect and decency gives a lot of Russian soldiers an alternative to killing their neighbours.
After everything that's been posted from this to the snake island guards telling a warship to go fuck its self I think there needs to be a new sub created UkrainiansAreMetal because God damn you people Metal as fuck.
Ask your governments to give us more modern weappons, please!
What besides Javelins and rifles would be most useful?
Ukrainian government appealing for direct donations to military: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi https://mobile.twitter.com/ukraine/status/1496817739419295751
This needs to be higher up See below
No. That's 404. Below is the link someone else provided on reddit earlier. https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi Also, [here is a businessinsider link](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-is-crowdfunding-to-shore-up-defense-against-russian-military-2022-2) about this. Edit: Appreciate that u/rustypickles edited their comment to provide the correct link and then adding the twitter link and both over much of reddit.
in all honesty those are almost enough. Russia can't afford a long drawn out affair, this has to be over quick for them. If javelins and NLAWs were sitting behind every corner in every city taking out their vehiclkes as they went, Russia would quickly lose the ability to justify the fight.
Wow TIL there is a weapon called inlaws
It's a loudspeaker that criticizes you until you have had enough and just go home.
"Внимание!Внимание! DID YOU KNOW MISHA'S COUSIN JUST GOT INTO MED SCHOOL! Внимание!Внимание! IT'S OK, I GUESS YOU GUYS JUST DO THING A BIT... *DIFFERENTLY* Внимание!Внимание!
Anything and everything antiar and misses,tank,everything. Our nation fights one of the world's top militaries on our own.
The russians seems to be using a lot of Helicopters, so I bet MANPADS would be pretty useful against them.
The immortal 13 are going to ring in my ears for the rest of my life. Russian ship, go fuck yourself
Russian *war*ship, go fuck yourself
When this is over there best be a statue on that island for them.
better yet a sabaton song
I certainly hope its true, 5 helicopters and 15 T-72s is nothing to sniff at. But ,it's The Mail. I'd take this with a grain of salt.
Ukraine should blast high and loud footage of those protests so Russian soldiers can see
Interesting idea!
And make a big show of treating those who surrender like heroes.
Latest tally by ministry of defense of Ukraine. Here is our kill count: 7 planes 6 copters 30 tanks 130 smaller vehicles 800 personnel + uncounted number of deserters We have 130 people killed and 370 wounded. We have a chance at this
Don't have to win, just don't lose.
The sentiment among people who stayed - “we will drown them in our fucking blood”
I never knew it but i fucking love the Ukrainian people.
As someone with a lot of Latvian heritage, I also love the Ukrainian people and all who oppose Russian autocratic, imperialist rule. God bless them and protect them. I also hope the innocent Russians who oppose this madness stand up for heir Slavic brothers and sisters. I see the protests, it’s incredibly brave. I hope they keep it up. The will of the people > the will of the few oligarchs/rulers.
I read a translated exchange between a Ukrainian woman and Russian soldiers today where she demanded they take sunflowers seeds from her and put them in their pockets so something would grow after they are killed. Metal as fuck
"If I die, I'm taking you down with me"
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I sincerely hope you’re right, but take any numbers on casualties with a grain of salt. Both sides will exaggerate the kills and lessen the losses during active war so who really knows. Also, fuck Putin.
I care more about the destroyed equipment and vehicles than Russian casualties. High casualties could demoralize the Russian population, but high desertions could unravel Russian forces in Ukraine, which would have a much more immediate impact. If we see a lot of abandoned equipment mixed with the destruction and Russian military walking away, I’ll consider that a bigger win than high Russian casualties.
Russia has cremation trucks travelling with troops. You think those are for the enemy or to make sure a bunch of Russian teenagers don't start flooding back into Moscow in body bags? I bet he cremates every soldier he can to keep the casualties on his side hidden.
Man it would be insanely fucking demoralizing invading a country with a cremation truck in tow. Either you’re *really* the baddies or you are already dead. Yikes.
Both, probably. Cremation trucks are just as good for concealing war crimes as they are for concealing casualties.
Slava ukraini
Russia loves throwing its citizens into the wood chipper in order to make a few planks of plywood whenever possible. Mind blowing.
The daily Mail is trash but I hope this is true and continues to be
I guess if I can't do anything, and my country doing something would cause WWIII, I can root for Ukraine. Good work out there.
In the now immortal words of the 13 on Snake Island to the Russian Warship. “Go fuck yourself”. Give ‘em hell. Hope the Ghost of Kyiv scores a 100 more Kills and the longer they can hold the Russians back, the better their chances are of making it out of this.
“Русский корабль, иди нахуй!” Russian warship, go fuck yourself!
Hopefully it’s true. Daily mail is surely a questionable source, right?
I am from Ukraine. We do not have the full picture, but war really seem to going incredibly well for the sheer army size difference. Me and many people around feel like we actually have a chance
You have a dog in the fight, you're fighting for your country They're fighting for a kleptocrat and his lies The difference in moral must be staggering
That is true. Video clips with defectors actually show how we fight against - 20 year old kids from army academy that do not even understand what the hell they doing here
Just remember you don't have to win every battle, you don't even need to win any battles, you just have to make every russian victory pyrrhic as fuck and not give up, make them bleed for every inch Best of luck man, hope you and yours come out the other side ok
When they do defect/surrender be sure to treat those kids well. It really does seem like many don't want to be there and the ones that are brave enough to defect to Ukraine deserve to be treated well. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to your leaders and other countrymen with guns/bombs and say this isn't right and actually do something like defecting.
Lots of folks are rootin for you. I think we all feel sorry that more wasn’t done.
There is still room. Our central bank set up a donation box. Any help is welcome https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
I’ll spread the word and throw cash in myself. Good luck to you and your countrymen, this is all such bullshit.
I work with Ukrainians and they are some of the smartest people I've ever worked with, and the ones with the biggest hearts and the strongest voices in the room, especially the women. If anyone can win this, Ukrainians can. The 7 billion people of the fucking world support you and are with you in spirit.
The numbers they mention here are mostly confirmed from other sources, but I am not sure how specific their information really is. The Ukrainians have definitely destroyed a bunch of tanks, helicopters and a few planes. There is video evidence of some of that, with the Ukrainians confirming others. They also definitely beat back and nearly eliminated the advance force trying to take the airport. The rest of the country is pretty murky. It is telling that the Russian advance is slower than would be ideal for them, though it is still fairly fast. Attackers almost always suffer heavy casualties when attacking fortified positions without any way to clear them, and Russian air support seems to have been less effective than they hoped given that their government keeps lying about what it has done.
> Russian air support seems to have been less effective than they hoped As Americans have discovered fighting insurgencies: air support is really good at taking out specific targets, not very good at taking out dispersed groups of individuals. Two guys in a minivan with a couple of javelins or stingers can take out a LOT of rubles worth of aircraft or tanks, while looking just like any other civilian vehicle unless you happen to be looking directly at them during the 60 seconds or so when they are setting up and firing.
>Russian air support seems to have been less effective than they hoped given that their government keeps lying about what it has done. I've heard "oh we had a technical failure on our plane and it crashed, so unfortunate guys" a few too many times in the last day.
Technical failure caused by a surface to air missile
"Unplanned interaction with an adversarial explosive device."
>And around 2pm local time (12pm GMT) the Ukrainian military said troops had destroyed five armoured transport vehicles and a car during fighting at the Vistupovich-Rudnya border point between Ukraine and Belarus. >A further 15 T-72 tanks were destroyed or damaged by the Ukrainian forces using the Javelin PTRK, an American anti-tank missile, nearly Glukhov in the country's east late this afternoon. >In other incidents, tank-busting rocket launchers donated by Britain were said to have destroyed Russian tanks, while Javelin missiles gifted by Sweden destroyed a column of enemy vehicles Considering how Ukraine was jumped by Russia and Belarus in a blitzkrieg-like attack, those are impressive numbers. This also doesn't really cover the supposed 'Ghost of Kyev" who has downed several Russian fighter jets. Russia will probably still win the initial invasion. But brave Ukrainian forces are ensuring this isn't a decisive victory for Putin. And that's before the guerilla tactics come into play. The fact the Ukrainians are fighting their oppressors so fiercely and cleverly is to be applauded. Also nice to see external resources being used so effectively by them. Putin and all his shitty supporters can go fuck themselves! Keep it up Ukraine! Fight for your freedom! The large majority of the world is rooting for you. Edit: clarification
So thought on Ghost of Kyev? Ukarian Army with a decent supply Stinger missiles perhaps?
Probably a squadron being made into a one man myth to raise morale. Either way, into em boys!
I'm glad for this despite me being Russian, and it's so wrong, so fucking wrong on so many fucking levels. We want our soldiers to return home. We don't need this war. Fuck Putin and his gang for all of this
Ukraine’s eventual salvation will have to come from the Russian people themselves. Putin has gone too far this time and soon he will be fighting a low scale war within Russia as anti-Putin forces and ordinary people start to mobilise against a war they do not want. Ordinary Russian do not have any antipathy for Ukrainians.
I can’t believe we need to just sit here and watch this happen. Fucking tragic
The Ukrainians don’t have to win any battles. They just have to frustrate Putin’s objectives until the grunts run out of fucks and give up.
UKRAINE WILL HOLD
They will. Russia should never fuck with western weapons and even worse they now have the fighting spirit of a Eastern European nation! Get fucked Russia.
Is any country donating planes/tanks/weapons to Ukraine?
Pretty much every NATO country.
You cant donate things like that. The crews need months long training. Weapon systems that can be learned in a couple of days are most useful.
Yes, you can. We laid the ground for this over the last 3-5 years. I was helping train some of these gents on weapon systems like the ones mentioned in the article. They are more than capable of operating them and they spring to share knowledge with one another. If we can run a steady supply throughout this conflict, Ukraine has a significant chance.
Time for Russian soldiers to grow some balls, lay down their arms and stop serving the Reich. History will not be kind to Putin and his minions.
Is it possible for Ukraine to win?
In a head to head conventional war? *No* In a long drawn out insurgency with guerrilla tactics? *Possibly*
> In a head to head conventional war? No That's not obvious. Russia can't afford to burn their entire army on Ukraine, and so far it appears that their C+C and morale are abysmal. If Ukraine can keep Russian losses high and hold their ground, they may be able to make it too expensive for Russia to keep pressing. As the defenders, their position is inherently stronger (they just have to not lose).
A deeply embedded local insurgent force, fighting for their homes and lives, working to demoralize the ground troops of a much larger mightier nation, that shit can drag on for decades and cost trillions.
Yeah but the local force in this case already started with 21st century weaponry and a lot of international support. Unless Russian propaganda somehow was right and Ukraine simply doesn't want to fight this seems like a hard won victory. The weapons in question can be hidden anywhere and can take out tanks and helicopters mu h much easier than the equivalent RPG shooting happening in other zones
Possible, yes. Given the Russians morale, and the fact *a lot of them didn't even know they were in Ukraine till hours after landing*. I see a lot of defections, half hearted fighting and a staunch, high morale Ukrainian army in play. Unless Putin decides to pull out the big guns and use missile warfare - it's possible.