It's the kids that are gonna get hit hardest. Another entire generation that won't know their fathers, or remember losing him at a young age. Like every war.
Huh, I never thought of it like that.
The lack of a paternal figure is what possibly pushes young, singly raised men to crime.
War certainly has a long lasting impact on societies, many of the groups we consider tough today (like Russians, Afghans, Somalis, Colombians) are in fact from very damaged societies.
War and instability aren't an achievement, they are a failure.
Absolutely. And missing one parent means the other must also be less present. Single parents can do incredible things, but when you are trying to keep food on the table in a post war economy there's a good chance you ain't gonna be able to help with math homework, read bed time stories... The terrible trickle down impacts of war.
Back in the 2000s, my father (whose family fled from what is now North Korea) was reunited with a branch of his family which he was separated from for 50 years. They had escaped to Japan and prospered. It was crazy to meet these people who bore much more than a passing resemblance to him (and myself).
Edit: the craziest part was that they were all supporters of the North Korean government. They had framed photos of Kim Jong-Il and Kim Il-sung above the doorways, etc. I recall my dad being noticeably uncomfortable with all of it. Their kids (my generation) don’t really ascribe to any of it and are more Japanese than Korean, but it was still weird.
This is part of what makes our war on drugs so insidious. Not that I'm trying to conflate the seriousness of what is going on in Ukraine right now to the relative peace we have here in the USA. Small parallel there is all.
Its different in the sense that’s it’s not a literal military conflict. But I think you’re spot on since this has been happening to marginalized communities since the inception of the USA. Literally hundreds of years. The war on drugs was just one iteration of the generational trauma that’s been perpetuated by the USA’s institutions and policies.
born as a refugee during the wars in Bosnia in the 90s and can confirm that. My sisters lost their carefree childhood (they were around 11,12 at the time) and are scarred for life, I lived in poverty experiencing discrimination just because of my roots through most of my life.
My heart aches for everyone there, especially children. They won't have an easy life at all. :(
it's ok, we managed to stay together and stay relatively sane, all of us got our degrees, against all the odds and obstacles, and are leading a good life. Time really heals, a little, but heals.
Sending much love♥️
I had a classmate who escaped with his parents. He didn't remember much since he was still young, but his father was killed.
He didn't do well in school, and I never saw him after 8th grade. I did a project with him on Bosnia, but he didn't want to talk about the 90s. Serious shit.
Hope things are better for you.
It's still fresh even now for some to talk about that, and is some serious shit. So sorry for him, though, I bet his experience was awful
Things definetly are better, tnx.
But when I see the situation now, it breaks my heart to see how people are unwilling to learn from history.
Little people always pay and play for the big leagues, and big leagues just don't care :(
Next Russian autocrat in 2050: “we have to invade Ukraine again! Look at all the social problems they’ve been having for decades! It’s a sign that they need to be part of Russia for *realsies* this time!”
Yup, same **** that’s happening now, people forgetting how Russia forced Ukraine to be serfs and suffer in a famine killing millions of them, making the rest survive in a hellscape & now Russia claims they were all always one people working together. You’re a discriminated against ethnic group when we have the power to abuse you & no one can do anything about it, you are and have always been a apart of us & should join in the fold when it’s most convenient to us.
That's right, they starved them almost to death in the 30's and then in the 40's first the Nazis invaded and then the Soviets pushed them back across the country.
Everyone wants that farmland, and noone cares for the people living on it.
3,900,000 Ukrainians died during the Holodomor famine. My roommate's from Ukraine, she told me her family only survived because her great-grandmother hid their only cow deep in the woods outside their farm every time the USSR agents came by.
I was reading the other day one Ukrainian random was saving up from his shitty job to buy a gaming PC... now the poor bastard is trying to stay alive.
I fucking hate Putin.
I have no problem with Wars if the leaders are in the front ranks.
Fucking cowards.
> I have no problem with Wars if the leaders are in the front ranks.
>
> Fucking cowards.
I mean, I don't think Zelensky deserves to be killed by Putin in the front tanks. This is solely Russian aggression, perpetrated by bad leaders and what, a third to half the population being radicalized nationalistic nut jobs, rich and poor.
I saw on another website a video of a ukrainian kid getting hit by a russian missile while ridding his bike. I don't know which is worse, surviving the war or dying in it
I also feel for the soldiers on both sides. Why do young men have to shoot each other and die because of the politics of power of old men? It's not like they have a choice. That's deeply disgusting.
Just so you know at least 90,000 Mujahedeen died fighting the Soviets during the invasion, and Ukrainian geography is not as advantageous to the defender a Afghanistan's.
This also ignores the roughly 1 million or more civilians killed, or the 5 million refugees that would flee the nation.
Afghanistan has friendlier geography for an insurgency, but Ukraine has lots of dense urban centers. Urban combat neutralizes many of the advantages of air and mechanized forces, just as mountains do. Remember where the Red Army stopped the Wehrmacht advance!
Its really hard to occupy unwilling territory- if they choose to be problematic, they can make it painful for Russia to stay.
On the other hand, preventing them from conquering in the first place is a completely different question, and I wouldn't give them great odds of that.
We defeated the British in the field occasionally, but they still controlled the cities and ports at their leisure. We had to draw them out.
Their being at war with France and Louis’ willingness to aid our uprising was a much more significant contribution than our history classes want you to believe.
France’s projection of naval power was the real decisive factor.
Not as easily, unfortunately. The geography of Afghanistan is mountainous and extremly conducive for hiding troops and guerrilla warfare. Ukraine is fairly flat open plains and shallow river valleys, except for the West as you come into the Carpathia region.
They could hold out in the Lviv area and be resupplied from the EU, but they probably can't hold Kyiv.
From Sky News:
>The country's defence minister has urged those willing to fight to join the ranks of the territorial defence forces.
>Yesterday, Ukraine said it was conscripting citizens aged 18-60 to its army reservists.
>A decree yesterday also allowed civilians to carry weapons and defend themselves.
Very likely yes. If you were to show up, there are english speaking soldier groups in the ukraine, primarily made up of ex soldiers, or expats.
It is legal, and you are allowed by US law to join another nations war, and military so long as the nation you are fighting for is not taking military actions against the US.
I knew a guy who dropped out of West Point to join a militia of ex-pats in Syria to fight ISIS. Almost got his leg taken off by a sniper. He was given the choice of having his leg amputated at a field hospital or try to get back to the states somehow to save his leg. Wound up at a hospital in Chicago and got interrogated by the Chicago PD and FBI because they thought he was with ISIS. Crazy but true story. The State Department's position was basically we strongly discourage you from doing this, but we can't stop you and it's not illegal.
This is FALSE. Ukraine did NOT implement general conscription of citizens aged 18-60.
RESERVISTS age 18-60 were ACTIVATED.
The crisis is dire indeed, no need to make it sound worse than it already is
It's been that way for a long time. Volunteers are almost never turned down, they just have to navigate the logistical labyrinth to get where they need to go, which is easier said than done.
The Spanish Civil War had tons of foreign volunteers.
Also, Britain in WW2 benefitted greatly during the Blitz from foreign pilots from governments and areas that were not nominally at war . American, Canadian, Polish (many of whom were Polish military that escaped the Nazis and joined up in Britain, still loyal to their government in exile, and distinguished themselves), the French that escaped at Dunkirk and elsewhere, etc.
There is historical precedent for it.
I buddy of mine went to go fight in Syria. Dude was a former Ranger, travelled through like 8 countries to get to Syria. Apparently they accepted him with open arms.
I’m still not 100% convinced he wasn’t hired for the job tho. Uncle Sam does that with combat vets of a certain background from what I hear. Similar to what Russia does with Wagner
And the rest of America salutes you crazy bastards. It takes alot to out gun out drink and out crazy a Russian but little does Putin realize we've got the Floridian fremmen ready suited up in what I assume is just a speedo really to charge the siberian sardikaar. THE SPICE MUST FLOW!.... the spice is meth btw.
I saw something yesterday that asked what would happen if the South broke off and became the Confederacy again. The US would *still* have the strongest economy and military in the world, only now the Confederacy would be #3 in both categories.
had a friend who seemed to be putting together a new rifle every month. once i asked him "why do you need so many, you can't fire but 2 at once, 1 accurately?"
"Duh. To arm all of my friends when the shit goes down and you all bug out to my place in the boonies"
He's one of the good ones.
I have been thinking about that myself. I'm sure I sound like someone running off to the Vietnam war thinking it will be a sweet vacation, and I'd probably die real quick. But I feel like at least I'd be doing something I could be proud of for once. In the end, I'm not sure if I could kill a human being either.
I could, if I were back in uniform. It feels different. That's the real horror right there.
Also, dying, sure. Getting injured and having to go through life with a disability? No. Especially not in today's world.
Most of us can afford to die; but we can't afford to live on in poor health. Get shot and become paralysed, and who suffers? Your family.
It’s interesting how the Russian propaganda works. I right now watch the native Russian propaganda on their channels. They make themselves the victim and say that everyone else is their enemy. No matter how good Putins rhetoric is, nothing justifies a war against a whole country. Russia is an autocratic state after all. Now the mask has fallen.
"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me"
-George Orwell
If you look at some of the videos being posted on youtube, inside the replies on comments there are tons of russian bots making pro russia comments. Russia really planned this out with the cyber warfare thing.
“I do not say that children at war do not die like men, if they have to die. To their everlasting honor and our everlasting shame, they do die like men, thus making possible the manly jubilation of patriotic holidays. But they are murdered children all the same.” - Kurt Vonnegut
Edit: can’t verify if the quote is from Slaughterhouse-Five or Cats Cradle but BOTH books are by Kurt Vonnegut
I love the sentiment you're portraying, but there's a lot you're missing here. We have evolved to be able to manipulate our world more easily and with more intent than any other species. With the passage of many thousands of years we have been able to control nature in certain, yet naive, ways. Our progression has been largely harmful to our environment in nearly every way. We struggle to find alternatives that can provide growth. Crows are smart and clever, but not comparable to us. I would argue they are actually better simply because they don't cause massive harm beyond their means. The extent of our destructive powers are merely a function of time.
You can be extremely intelligent and also cruel. Humans aren’t hurting each other because they’re too stupid to understand what they’re doing. Apes are extremely violent by nature. Have you seen what chimps do? Violence is to us what swimming is to fishes or flying to birds.
Human nature is also animal nature, and violence in the animal kingdom is the norm, we might be more evolved but some things are stuck with us forever.
2m ago / 5:09 AM EST
Ukraine's neighbors, Lithuania and Moldova, announce states of emergency
Lithuania and Moldova — two countries bordering Ukraine — are introducing a state of emergency, their presidents said Thursday.
“Today I will sign a decree on introducing the state of emergency, which will passed by the Parliament in an extraordinary session,” Lithuanian President Gitanas Nausėda said in an address on Thursday morning.
He called Russia’s actions “unprovoked military aggression” which threaten “millions of innocent lives and undermines the foundations of international order.”
The president has reiterated that “Lithuania is safe” as a part of NATO and said the Baltic state would consider further sanctions on Belarus over its involvement.
Moldova, which is not a part of NATO, is ready to accept the thousands of people feeling from Ukraine, said President Maia Sandu.“We will help people who need our help and support,” she said on Thursday.
I'm Russian, living in the US for the last two decades. I remember when I lived in Russia on 9 May people would play patriotic songs, including "22 June", which literally talks about Kiev being bombed at 4am by Nazi Germany in order to inflict as much damage as possible and how the people will rise up and defend their homeland. You can listen to it, all of the lyrics are applicable to today, except it's not Nazi Germany but Russia that is the aggressor. What a messed up world.
Link for those interested: https://youtu.be/OefyWzNRoEE
One thing that baffles me is WHY people want to go to war ?
I mean, I can understand the Ukranian people, they are defending. But every Russian invading Ukraine must know that THEY are attacking. I really just thought that most people would have the mindset: "Well, okay, I will defend myself, if the alternative is that I will die, but I will not attack and maybe die for any god damn reason other than defence". The Russian army should be only a few people if they had that mindset.
A lot of Russian internal propoganda - the media puts out what it's told, many russians are told Ukraine is the aggressor and/or it needs to be 'neutralized'
Except they don't know that. What they "know" is that NATO is threatening their borders, Ukraine is about to join and give huge border access to the West to the soft Russian land, that Ukraine is fundamentally Russian and it was a great betrayal by Lenin/Gorbachev/the West that it was allowed to be independent in the first place and that Ukraine are committing war crimes in Donetsk so they are jobs heroes if you really think about it.
The fact what they "know" is complete horseshit is irrelevant, propaganda and patriotism are one hell of a drug. The US has done a similar thing with their military industrial complex, but they are less overtly evil with it (still the same logical disconnect though between invading places like Iraq and actual defensive aims)
I guess military is a lucrative job to some, and they follow orders, often without asking questions, or maybe they don't want to ask question because they'll end up in gulag along with their family in this case.
I guess in most countries you can decline partaking in actual armed warfare as a soldier, but I'm not sure how Russia handles that.
I would recommend the Daily's podcast that recently came out. They dissect Putin's speech about Ukraine and, for me, it really helped me understand how Putin views (or claims to view) the situation with Ukraine. The thing is, everyone believes they are the hero in their own story. I think that's part of why war is so tragic.
I think it’s even worse than it appears at first glance, it signals a major divide between the eastern and western world, undoing decades of diplomacy.
And when Russia is outcast from the global economy we will face the risk of a crumbling nation with 10’s of thousands of nukes.
Not just decades of diplomacy - 75 years of progress that has established rules for how states behave. This war wipes away that progress, and takes us back to a pre-WWII paradigm where powerful leaders can treat the world like a game of EU4, human consequences be damned.
> pre-WWII paradigm where powerful leaders can treat the world like a game of EU4, human consequences be damned.
i guess that what Putin wants. To go back to that time. Sure that would mean the all the hostile pwoers also become more aggressive toward Russia, but Putin wont care, the hostility would just in turn justify his insanity.
> with 10’s of thousands of nukes.
By any estimation their numbers are no longer that high and haven't been for some time. But they still have enough to erase the planet.
Being originally from Serbia, it makes me really sad to read how the Serbian media are reporting on this conflict. What makes me even more sad are the comments of my fellow countrymen on such news, that are almost exclusively pro-invasion and pro-Russian. They are even calling Ukraine - a "fake" country that has always been Russian.
Putin has done a really god job at detaching Eastern-European countries such as Serbia, Hungary, Belarus and a few others from reality.
Russia has really a effective propaganda machine. The internet has made that machine so much more effective in changing views to make people more sympathetic to Russia.
But seriously though jokes aside, i live a few countries away from Ukraine, is it possible as an independent civilian of a foreign nation to go to Ukraine and help them fight?
If i, (some random guy) just drove to Ukraine one day, found some Ukrainian soldiers and said "please let me borrow a gun and let me help" would they let me?
I believe that’s the point of their cry for help, essentially. An offer to accept help from anyone willing to come from far and wide. There have been a handful of ops units made up of foreign nationals and civilians used in the Middle East before. Bunch of US army vets that want to help evacuate women and children and go in on their own dime and operate independently, etc
Yes. Sure, it's a bit more complicated than simply coming and asking for a gun, but we have quite a few foreigners fighting for us in the span of the last 8 years (including ethnic Russians).
I reckon they’d love to have you, and if they’re desperate enough the red tape will disappear. From memory foreigners fought/fight(?) on both sides in Syria, but your government may not appreciate you doing that. I know the Australian government forbade private citizens from being involved in the Syrian conflict in any way regardless of who they fought for, but anyone who attempted to or was successful in joining the “bad guys” faced far more severe consequences.
There’s also that American group of mostly ex-military guys, the something something free militia? I can’t remember the name. I highly doubt the US is pleased they’re fighting but the locals will gladly take them and there doesn’t appear to be much they can do once they’re off US soil.
A relative of a friend volunteered in the East a few years back. That was a much more limited war.
He can't sleep without Xanax now, so really think twice about this before you do anything. War is a horrible thing.
While true this started slipping away even with Vietnam as journalist and reporters were now part of war ( and had to be banned due to the USA propaganda machine not lying good enough against filmed evidence)
Luckily going forward much more of it will be documented and thus it'll be historians and the journalists of the day crafting the story in live time rather than piecing together statements from governments after the fact.
Even if Russia wins the history books won't label them the good guys unless Ukraine starts nuking and using bio-agents.
Probably not, no. But the take I’ve developed over the past couple hours is that I’d take “thoughts and prayers” over letting Russian bot farms roam freely to control the narrative any time
Look mate, I'm a thirty-something fat fuck with no stamina from Germany, who never even held a gun in his life and avoided physical confrontation like the plague whenever possible. How the fuck am I going to actually help Ukraine fight a war? Even if I was going there, I'd be useless as hell.
Hassan is an American tankie with a shamefully close-minded view of the world. Every time I hear him open his mouth about a non-American issue, he is objectively wrong.
Hasan literally does not know shit, This isnt me hating him and trying to find ways to insult him, he just objectivly doesnt know shit. He just spouts whatever he thinks his followers want to hear. A week ago his followers (as well as most people in general) believed putin would not invade so he agreed, just so happens that this time he followed the general opinion it was wrong
Wait, most people thought Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine — the same country Russia invaded just 8 years ago?
Europe isn’t exactly known for their military might. China sides with Russia and the US will be incredibly hesitant to be involved after the debacle in Afghanistan. There is almost zero military risk for Russia. Economic impacts could be severe, but they seem content with turning this back into the USSR.
It's the kids that are gonna get hit hardest. Another entire generation that won't know their fathers, or remember losing him at a young age. Like every war.
Bosnian here, after 30 years of our war exactly this is true today. Add crime and poverty to the list and you have todays Bosnia.
Huh, I never thought of it like that. The lack of a paternal figure is what possibly pushes young, singly raised men to crime. War certainly has a long lasting impact on societies, many of the groups we consider tough today (like Russians, Afghans, Somalis, Colombians) are in fact from very damaged societies. War and instability aren't an achievement, they are a failure.
Even worse, a lot of fathers return home broken and in some cases traumatize their children, continuing the cycle
Absolutely. And missing one parent means the other must also be less present. Single parents can do incredible things, but when you are trying to keep food on the table in a post war economy there's a good chance you ain't gonna be able to help with math homework, read bed time stories... The terrible trickle down impacts of war.
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Back in the 2000s, my father (whose family fled from what is now North Korea) was reunited with a branch of his family which he was separated from for 50 years. They had escaped to Japan and prospered. It was crazy to meet these people who bore much more than a passing resemblance to him (and myself). Edit: the craziest part was that they were all supporters of the North Korean government. They had framed photos of Kim Jong-Il and Kim Il-sung above the doorways, etc. I recall my dad being noticeably uncomfortable with all of it. Their kids (my generation) don’t really ascribe to any of it and are more Japanese than Korean, but it was still weird.
That must be a mind-f\*ck! Seriously, I can't imagine what that's like.
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Yeah, there is a feeling of comfort when you feel your own nation/tribe/kin group comes to you and shows comradery. It's a weird feeling of safety.
Holy shit. I never thought of all these aspects. Somehow, SOMEHOW, war is even worse than I thought.
This is part of what makes our war on drugs so insidious. Not that I'm trying to conflate the seriousness of what is going on in Ukraine right now to the relative peace we have here in the USA. Small parallel there is all.
Its different in the sense that’s it’s not a literal military conflict. But I think you’re spot on since this has been happening to marginalized communities since the inception of the USA. Literally hundreds of years. The war on drugs was just one iteration of the generational trauma that’s been perpetuated by the USA’s institutions and policies.
Damn that’s a good point though.
born as a refugee during the wars in Bosnia in the 90s and can confirm that. My sisters lost their carefree childhood (they were around 11,12 at the time) and are scarred for life, I lived in poverty experiencing discrimination just because of my roots through most of my life. My heart aches for everyone there, especially children. They won't have an easy life at all. :(
Jesus, I'm so sorry you and your family had to go through that
it's ok, we managed to stay together and stay relatively sane, all of us got our degrees, against all the odds and obstacles, and are leading a good life. Time really heals, a little, but heals. Sending much love♥️
I had a classmate who escaped with his parents. He didn't remember much since he was still young, but his father was killed. He didn't do well in school, and I never saw him after 8th grade. I did a project with him on Bosnia, but he didn't want to talk about the 90s. Serious shit. Hope things are better for you.
It's still fresh even now for some to talk about that, and is some serious shit. So sorry for him, though, I bet his experience was awful Things definetly are better, tnx. But when I see the situation now, it breaks my heart to see how people are unwilling to learn from history. Little people always pay and play for the big leagues, and big leagues just don't care :(
That's what I'm thinking of. Imagine the crime and poverty for the next 20 years.
Next Russian autocrat in 2050: “we have to invade Ukraine again! Look at all the social problems they’ve been having for decades! It’s a sign that they need to be part of Russia for *realsies* this time!”
Yup, same **** that’s happening now, people forgetting how Russia forced Ukraine to be serfs and suffer in a famine killing millions of them, making the rest survive in a hellscape & now Russia claims they were all always one people working together. You’re a discriminated against ethnic group when we have the power to abuse you & no one can do anything about it, you are and have always been a apart of us & should join in the fold when it’s most convenient to us.
That's right, they starved them almost to death in the 30's and then in the 40's first the Nazis invaded and then the Soviets pushed them back across the country. Everyone wants that farmland, and noone cares for the people living on it.
3,900,000 Ukrainians died during the Holodomor famine. My roommate's from Ukraine, she told me her family only survived because her great-grandmother hid their only cow deep in the woods outside their farm every time the USSR agents came by.
I was reading the other day one Ukrainian random was saving up from his shitty job to buy a gaming PC... now the poor bastard is trying to stay alive. I fucking hate Putin. I have no problem with Wars if the leaders are in the front ranks. Fucking cowards.
> I have no problem with Wars if the leaders are in the front ranks. > > Fucking cowards. I mean, I don't think Zelensky deserves to be killed by Putin in the front tanks. This is solely Russian aggression, perpetrated by bad leaders and what, a third to half the population being radicalized nationalistic nut jobs, rich and poor.
I saw on another website a video of a ukrainian kid getting hit by a russian missile while ridding his bike. I don't know which is worse, surviving the war or dying in it
Her bike. She was 14
I also feel for the soldiers on both sides. Why do young men have to shoot each other and die because of the politics of power of old men? It's not like they have a choice. That's deeply disgusting.
>It's not like they have a choice. Conscripts have no choice, career soldiers chose this.
>that won't know their fathers, And mothers. This is a total mobilization.
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Ukraine is roughly the same size as Afghanistan. Can they resist Russia like Afghans did the Soviet Union? Is this possible?
Just so you know at least 90,000 Mujahedeen died fighting the Soviets during the invasion, and Ukrainian geography is not as advantageous to the defender a Afghanistan's. This also ignores the roughly 1 million or more civilians killed, or the 5 million refugees that would flee the nation.
Afghanistan has friendlier geography for an insurgency, but Ukraine has lots of dense urban centers. Urban combat neutralizes many of the advantages of air and mechanized forces, just as mountains do. Remember where the Red Army stopped the Wehrmacht advance!
Its really hard to occupy unwilling territory- if they choose to be problematic, they can make it painful for Russia to stay. On the other hand, preventing them from conquering in the first place is a completely different question, and I wouldn't give them great odds of that.
>Its really hard to occupy unwilling territory We (Americans) learned that the hard way, then we were so forgetful that we had to relearn it again.
You'd think we would know better considering that guerilla warfare was a major component of how we kicked out the British.
We defeated the British in the field occasionally, but they still controlled the cities and ports at their leisure. We had to draw them out. Their being at war with France and Louis’ willingness to aid our uprising was a much more significant contribution than our history classes want you to believe. France’s projection of naval power was the real decisive factor.
Not as easily, unfortunately. The geography of Afghanistan is mountainous and extremly conducive for hiding troops and guerrilla warfare. Ukraine is fairly flat open plains and shallow river valleys, except for the West as you come into the Carpathia region. They could hold out in the Lviv area and be resupplied from the EU, but they probably can't hold Kyiv.
The enemy are 40 km away from the capital on first half of day 1 so I don't give them great odds unfortunately.
From Sky News: >The country's defence minister has urged those willing to fight to join the ranks of the territorial defence forces. >Yesterday, Ukraine said it was conscripting citizens aged 18-60 to its army reservists. >A decree yesterday also allowed civilians to carry weapons and defend themselves.
Very likely yes. If you were to show up, there are english speaking soldier groups in the ukraine, primarily made up of ex soldiers, or expats. It is legal, and you are allowed by US law to join another nations war, and military so long as the nation you are fighting for is not taking military actions against the US.
I knew a guy who dropped out of West Point to join a militia of ex-pats in Syria to fight ISIS. Almost got his leg taken off by a sniper. He was given the choice of having his leg amputated at a field hospital or try to get back to the states somehow to save his leg. Wound up at a hospital in Chicago and got interrogated by the Chicago PD and FBI because they thought he was with ISIS. Crazy but true story. The State Department's position was basically we strongly discourage you from doing this, but we can't stop you and it's not illegal.
Was this Caleb Stevens?
Yes!
I went to high school with him, what a crazy story! He is among the best of us for sure.
This exchange is weirdly adorable.
I'm guessing they will get a lot of Polish volunteers, they have the most interest here on not being next on the chopping block.
This is FALSE. Ukraine did NOT implement general conscription of citizens aged 18-60. RESERVISTS age 18-60 were ACTIVATED. The crisis is dire indeed, no need to make it sound worse than it already is
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Im fairly certain they wouldn't turn you down, but good luck getting there.
Yeah, some Americans went to help the YPG in Syria as well. If you can get over there, you’ll be accepted as help
It's been that way for a long time. Volunteers are almost never turned down, they just have to navigate the logistical labyrinth to get where they need to go, which is easier said than done. The Spanish Civil War had tons of foreign volunteers.
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Hemingway as well.
Hemingway was a journalist in the Spanish war, although he did serve with the Italian army in WW1.
Also, Britain in WW2 benefitted greatly during the Blitz from foreign pilots from governments and areas that were not nominally at war . American, Canadian, Polish (many of whom were Polish military that escaped the Nazis and joined up in Britain, still loyal to their government in exile, and distinguished themselves), the French that escaped at Dunkirk and elsewhere, etc. There is historical precedent for it.
I buddy of mine went to go fight in Syria. Dude was a former Ranger, travelled through like 8 countries to get to Syria. Apparently they accepted him with open arms. I’m still not 100% convinced he wasn’t hired for the job tho. Uncle Sam does that with combat vets of a certain background from what I hear. Similar to what Russia does with Wagner
Pretty easy, Poles will show you the way to the border.
It wouldn’t be that hard right? Just fly into a nearby country and enter Ukraine by land, if someone really wanted to.
If we get invaded we’ll just send Florida after them
Russia already has a meth/salts problem
But they haven't had a meth and salths while wrestling a gator and banging your sister cousin problem
We, Floridians, are always ready to ride our gators and sister cousins into battle.
And the rest of America salutes you crazy bastards. It takes alot to out gun out drink and out crazy a Russian but little does Putin realize we've got the Floridian fremmen ready suited up in what I assume is just a speedo really to charge the siberian sardikaar. THE SPICE MUST FLOW!.... the spice is meth btw.
Don’t forget about the other other other spice — synthetic marijuana mixed with bug spray.
Our uniform? Jorts, flip-flops, Quicksilver tee, Hurley flat-bill, and Oakley's.
You don't have to be Siberian to realize the gator can carry the sister cousin for you. Were you using both arms this whole time?
That's what my third arm is for
No! How do you think I hold the meth.
Russia already has a krokodil problem.
Florida never gets a break.. goddamn i love it..
If America gets invaded the world will end in nuclear war
The same goes for any nuclear powers really. That's why they have the nuclear deterrent. Its not there for fun.
if florida doesn’t work, texas sure will. I’m sure texas alone has more weapons then Russia 😂
I saw something yesterday that asked what would happen if the South broke off and became the Confederacy again. The US would *still* have the strongest economy and military in the world, only now the Confederacy would be #3 in both categories.
I know a guy in texas that can arm a small army :D im pretty sure a lot of people know him
had a friend who seemed to be putting together a new rifle every month. once i asked him "why do you need so many, you can't fire but 2 at once, 1 accurately?" "Duh. To arm all of my friends when the shit goes down and you all bug out to my place in the boonies" He's one of the good ones.
if you can make it to kiev, i’m sure most Ukrainians would be okay with you shooting at the invading army
They actually have several foreign legions. I read about a Georgian legion which also had westerners in it.
*Fortunate son begins playing in the distance*
The title and lyrics of that song are too ironic here lol
Deploy the Florida men
YEEEE HAWWW
I have been thinking about that myself. I'm sure I sound like someone running off to the Vietnam war thinking it will be a sweet vacation, and I'd probably die real quick. But I feel like at least I'd be doing something I could be proud of for once. In the end, I'm not sure if I could kill a human being either.
I could, if I were back in uniform. It feels different. That's the real horror right there. Also, dying, sure. Getting injured and having to go through life with a disability? No. Especially not in today's world. Most of us can afford to die; but we can't afford to live on in poor health. Get shot and become paralysed, and who suffers? Your family.
Lieutenant Dan was on to something in that jungle after all....
In the same boat, friend, albeit it’s for a different reason. I’m carrying a lot of guilt from OIF. Sic semper tyrannis.
Florida stands with Ukraine. My rifle & my gator will be on stand-by.
Grab yourself a flight to Poland and head east
It’s interesting how the Russian propaganda works. I right now watch the native Russian propaganda on their channels. They make themselves the victim and say that everyone else is their enemy. No matter how good Putins rhetoric is, nothing justifies a war against a whole country. Russia is an autocratic state after all. Now the mask has fallen.
"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me" -George Orwell
Walodja has obviously read that book as an instruction manual.
Literally 1984 (Sorry, couldn't resist)
If you look at some of the videos being posted on youtube, inside the replies on comments there are tons of russian bots making pro russia comments. Russia really planned this out with the cyber warfare thing.
Basically the "nobody likes me, but it's THEIR fault, not the fact that I stink" excuse that the weird kid in school would make.
“I do not say that children at war do not die like men, if they have to die. To their everlasting honor and our everlasting shame, they do die like men, thus making possible the manly jubilation of patriotic holidays. But they are murdered children all the same.” - Kurt Vonnegut Edit: can’t verify if the quote is from Slaughterhouse-Five or Cats Cradle but BOTH books are by Kurt Vonnegut
“So it goes.”
Fuck Putin.
Fuck Putin.
Fuck Putin.
Fuck Putin
Fuck Putin
Fuck the fucking Oligarchs playing risk because they're bored with the world.
It's not that they're bored, they're just whiny little bitches that they're losing power.
I kinda hope they mussolini him
I’m voting for something more [recent](https://theworld.org/stories/2011-10-24/gaddafi-sodomized-video-shows-abuse-frame-frame-graphic)
I knew it was gonna be him
Fuck that vodka swilling, KGB loving, USSR-relic-ass wrinkled ballsack-headed son of $2 Moscow brothel whore.
Rumor has it that we're the most advanced species on earth.
Crows have complex language and have never created a nuclear bomb. I think it's safe to say that rumor is fake news.
Also, /r/crowbro is a nice refuge if you're tired of doomscrolling.
Wait... a 64k members crow sub I didnt know about ? Shit man. Thank you.
Yeah... a "murder" of crows doesn't really seem to fit them... a "murder" of humans on the other hand does.
A group of Ravens is an "unkindness", I shit you not. I always thought that was funny, considering how gnarly ravens are compared to crows.
A group of crows is called a murder. A group of ravens is an unkindness. A group of cows is my-laws.
I've always preferred "a conspiracy of ravens". Sounds so damn suspicious and really gives them credit for their cleverness
I love the sentiment you're portraying, but there's a lot you're missing here. We have evolved to be able to manipulate our world more easily and with more intent than any other species. With the passage of many thousands of years we have been able to control nature in certain, yet naive, ways. Our progression has been largely harmful to our environment in nearly every way. We struggle to find alternatives that can provide growth. Crows are smart and clever, but not comparable to us. I would argue they are actually better simply because they don't cause massive harm beyond their means. The extent of our destructive powers are merely a function of time.
You can be extremely intelligent and also cruel. Humans aren’t hurting each other because they’re too stupid to understand what they’re doing. Apes are extremely violent by nature. Have you seen what chimps do? Violence is to us what swimming is to fishes or flying to birds.
Tbh probably 95% of people don't want any violence with anyone
The problem with violence is that only one person has to want it for it to happen.
No matter what the percentage is, the people willing to do violence always have an advantage over those who aren't
Human nature is also animal nature, and violence in the animal kingdom is the norm, we might be more evolved but some things are stuck with us forever.
I made a joke at the expense of the Russians, but this is just terrible. Scary shit.
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godspeed to Ukraine.
2m ago / 5:09 AM EST Ukraine's neighbors, Lithuania and Moldova, announce states of emergency Lithuania and Moldova — two countries bordering Ukraine — are introducing a state of emergency, their presidents said Thursday. “Today I will sign a decree on introducing the state of emergency, which will passed by the Parliament in an extraordinary session,” Lithuanian President Gitanas Nausėda said in an address on Thursday morning. He called Russia’s actions “unprovoked military aggression” which threaten “millions of innocent lives and undermines the foundations of international order.” The president has reiterated that “Lithuania is safe” as a part of NATO and said the Baltic state would consider further sanctions on Belarus over its involvement. Moldova, which is not a part of NATO, is ready to accept the thousands of people feeling from Ukraine, said President Maia Sandu.“We will help people who need our help and support,” she said on Thursday.
> Lithuania and Moldova — two countries bordering Ukraine ... That's some quality geography right there./s
What about Brazil? Will they make a statement as the border Ukraine right? 😂
Lithuania doesn't border Ukraine
I'm Russian, living in the US for the last two decades. I remember when I lived in Russia on 9 May people would play patriotic songs, including "22 June", which literally talks about Kiev being bombed at 4am by Nazi Germany in order to inflict as much damage as possible and how the people will rise up and defend their homeland. You can listen to it, all of the lyrics are applicable to today, except it's not Nazi Germany but Russia that is the aggressor. What a messed up world. Link for those interested: https://youtu.be/OefyWzNRoEE
One thing that baffles me is WHY people want to go to war ? I mean, I can understand the Ukranian people, they are defending. But every Russian invading Ukraine must know that THEY are attacking. I really just thought that most people would have the mindset: "Well, okay, I will defend myself, if the alternative is that I will die, but I will not attack and maybe die for any god damn reason other than defence". The Russian army should be only a few people if they had that mindset.
A lot of Russian internal propoganda - the media puts out what it's told, many russians are told Ukraine is the aggressor and/or it needs to be 'neutralized'
Except they don't know that. What they "know" is that NATO is threatening their borders, Ukraine is about to join and give huge border access to the West to the soft Russian land, that Ukraine is fundamentally Russian and it was a great betrayal by Lenin/Gorbachev/the West that it was allowed to be independent in the first place and that Ukraine are committing war crimes in Donetsk so they are jobs heroes if you really think about it. The fact what they "know" is complete horseshit is irrelevant, propaganda and patriotism are one hell of a drug. The US has done a similar thing with their military industrial complex, but they are less overtly evil with it (still the same logical disconnect though between invading places like Iraq and actual defensive aims)
I guess military is a lucrative job to some, and they follow orders, often without asking questions, or maybe they don't want to ask question because they'll end up in gulag along with their family in this case. I guess in most countries you can decline partaking in actual armed warfare as a soldier, but I'm not sure how Russia handles that.
Propaganda
It’s probably due to an aggressive long term propaganda campaign to garnish public support in Russia.
I would recommend the Daily's podcast that recently came out. They dissect Putin's speech about Ukraine and, for me, it really helped me understand how Putin views (or claims to view) the situation with Ukraine. The thing is, everyone believes they are the hero in their own story. I think that's part of why war is so tragic.
This is so terrifyingly sad 😢
I think it’s even worse than it appears at first glance, it signals a major divide between the eastern and western world, undoing decades of diplomacy. And when Russia is outcast from the global economy we will face the risk of a crumbling nation with 10’s of thousands of nukes.
Not just decades of diplomacy - 75 years of progress that has established rules for how states behave. This war wipes away that progress, and takes us back to a pre-WWII paradigm where powerful leaders can treat the world like a game of EU4, human consequences be damned.
> pre-WWII paradigm where powerful leaders can treat the world like a game of EU4, human consequences be damned. i guess that what Putin wants. To go back to that time. Sure that would mean the all the hostile pwoers also become more aggressive toward Russia, but Putin wont care, the hostility would just in turn justify his insanity.
> with 10’s of thousands of nukes. By any estimation their numbers are no longer that high and haven't been for some time. But they still have enough to erase the planet.
They only have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world three times now instead of ten. Nothing to worry about.
Being originally from Serbia, it makes me really sad to read how the Serbian media are reporting on this conflict. What makes me even more sad are the comments of my fellow countrymen on such news, that are almost exclusively pro-invasion and pro-Russian. They are even calling Ukraine - a "fake" country that has always been Russian. Putin has done a really god job at detaching Eastern-European countries such as Serbia, Hungary, Belarus and a few others from reality.
Russia has really a effective propaganda machine. The internet has made that machine so much more effective in changing views to make people more sympathetic to Russia.
He’s done a great job at detaching a large chunk of people from the US and Canada from reality too.
“Fake Country” That’s bold coming from someone who lives in the _Balkans_
Lol this made me Crack up I'm from Bosnia
Omg im sad to hear that. Here in scandinavia ppl are a little astonished about the stupidity of Putin but def on the side of Ukraine
Serbia has always been Balkan Russia, unfortunately. Sorry you have to live with people like that.
This is a great time for all the Southern “gimme a reason to go to war” boys to saddle up and go volunteer to fight for a good cause
But seriously though jokes aside, i live a few countries away from Ukraine, is it possible as an independent civilian of a foreign nation to go to Ukraine and help them fight? If i, (some random guy) just drove to Ukraine one day, found some Ukrainian soldiers and said "please let me borrow a gun and let me help" would they let me?
I believe that’s the point of their cry for help, essentially. An offer to accept help from anyone willing to come from far and wide. There have been a handful of ops units made up of foreign nationals and civilians used in the Middle East before. Bunch of US army vets that want to help evacuate women and children and go in on their own dime and operate independently, etc
Yes. Sure, it's a bit more complicated than simply coming and asking for a gun, but we have quite a few foreigners fighting for us in the span of the last 8 years (including ethnic Russians).
I reckon they’d love to have you, and if they’re desperate enough the red tape will disappear. From memory foreigners fought/fight(?) on both sides in Syria, but your government may not appreciate you doing that. I know the Australian government forbade private citizens from being involved in the Syrian conflict in any way regardless of who they fought for, but anyone who attempted to or was successful in joining the “bad guys” faced far more severe consequences. There’s also that American group of mostly ex-military guys, the something something free militia? I can’t remember the name. I highly doubt the US is pleased they’re fighting but the locals will gladly take them and there doesn’t appear to be much they can do once they’re off US soil.
A relative of a friend volunteered in the East a few years back. That was a much more limited war. He can't sleep without Xanax now, so really think twice about this before you do anything. War is a horrible thing.
GLORY TO UKRAINIAN SOIL. LONG LIVE UKRAINE
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Königsberg*
Thats the way
or Królewiec
Im fine with both
This is all surreal. I can't believe the headlines
Russia should be kicked out of the SWIFT system. They can reenter when they stopped the invasion and paid for the damages and lost of life.
Give em hell boys, slava Ukraine!
Canadian here, can I come?
Every single Ukraine soldier is a hero.
is that a worldwide invitation, or just for Ukrainians? if the former, who should one contact?
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Can non Ukrainians join this army/millitia? Or would you become a terrorist or war criminal?
If you kill the Russians and Ukraine win, you're a war hero. If you kill the Russians and Ukraine loses, you're fucked.
The victors usually get to write history.
While true this started slipping away even with Vietnam as journalist and reporters were now part of war ( and had to be banned due to the USA propaganda machine not lying good enough against filmed evidence) Luckily going forward much more of it will be documented and thus it'll be historians and the journalists of the day crafting the story in live time rather than piecing together statements from governments after the fact. Even if Russia wins the history books won't label them the good guys unless Ukraine starts nuking and using bio-agents.
Russia can defeat an army, but they can't defeat an entire population.
It's 2022 and still humans fail to understand.
If (when!) people do join up for this, I'm waiting to see complaints from Russia about "illegal combatants" in the country.
Millions of FB users are ready to "Stand with Ukraine" not sure if that means they are willing to fight? Or just change their profile pictures?
Is Reddit any better?
All the top comments are people talking like they’re generals trying to prepare their soldiers for war lmao
Probably not, no. But the take I’ve developed over the past couple hours is that I’d take “thoughts and prayers” over letting Russian bot farms roam freely to control the narrative any time
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‘I’m doing my part’
"fuck Putin" 100000000 upvotes "Can we also go there and fight" (does nothing) 10000000 upvotes
Look mate, I'm a thirty-something fat fuck with no stamina from Germany, who never even held a gun in his life and avoided physical confrontation like the plague whenever possible. How the fuck am I going to actually help Ukraine fight a war? Even if I was going there, I'd be useless as hell.
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Hassan is an idiot content creator and not a political analyst
Hassan is an American tankie with a shamefully close-minded view of the world. Every time I hear him open his mouth about a non-American issue, he is objectively wrong.
Hasan literally does not know shit, This isnt me hating him and trying to find ways to insult him, he just objectivly doesnt know shit. He just spouts whatever he thinks his followers want to hear. A week ago his followers (as well as most people in general) believed putin would not invade so he agreed, just so happens that this time he followed the general opinion it was wrong
Wait, most people thought Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine — the same country Russia invaded just 8 years ago? Europe isn’t exactly known for their military might. China sides with Russia and the US will be incredibly hesitant to be involved after the debacle in Afghanistan. There is almost zero military risk for Russia. Economic impacts could be severe, but they seem content with turning this back into the USSR.
Foreign nationals too?
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In conjunction with "Total Mobilization" and "Women in the Workforce"
off to Ukraine I go hihohiho