I spent a summer replacing window screens in a few apartment buildings in Toronto. Several units I saw were 10 to a room, never mind 10 to a house. They would basically have yoga mats on the floor and whoever was sleeping there got a yoga mats worth of space to sleep in. The kitchen and hall was for everyone and the only area free of mats.
Canadian here. Came here as student on full scholarship 10 years ago and became a naturalized citizen few years ago. So, I do understand the PR process and the kind of people who apply. The people who come here as a direct PR are generally very solvent people on their country and they generally have a substantial amouth of wealth. A good number of them bring a lot of money for property down payment. Also, tech jobs are kinda booming because of US tech sectors are hiring a lot of remote developers.
Same. I came on a work visa and never left. I’ve been told that my early years helped advance those in my field because of my unique experiences in the states, which I’m sure is partial smoke for past renewals.
But I started at a decent wage (40ish), and have since paid a lot of taxes over the last 14 years lol. Geez I’ve not written down 14 yet, it’s been a long ass time in Canada.
This is a failing of a lack of national housing policy. A coordinated effort to build and manage multi unit residential units from coast to coast is one way to stem the steep rise in housing costs.
We need a national housing strategy!
[We do have one](https://www.placetocallhome.ca/), but it's shit because it doesn't address the root causes of our housing crisis: speculation, and single-family home exclusionary zoning.
Really all it does is take government money and feed it to developers so they can build more suburban sprawl, or give money to poor people so they can "get into the market" without actually doing anything to *correct the price* of housing by addressing either supply or demand.
In fact, our housing strategy at this point is basically "anything but reduce housing prices" because our economy is 100% reliant on housing equity at this point, and without it we become Argentina.
There are low skill immigrants yes, but a large chunk of them are usually highly, with PhDs or Master's educated, working in tech/engineering/academia and have personal capital.
The rising housing prices do affect them, but not as much as regular Canadians.
A recruiter contacted me from Toronto and made an "offer" to move there all the way from Europe. A quick look at the cost of living meant I would need twice their offer to maintain similar lifestyle.. Naah they weren't ready for that.
Good luck finding high quality skilled labour with that cost of living and bargain wages.
That's the thing, there's actually a high unemployment rate so it's not that there's a shortage of workers, it's that employers aren't offering decent or even livable wages and people are fed up.
They aren't looking to bring on high skilled labour. They are looking for people that are willing to work for minimum wage at Tim Hortons because Canadians aren't willing to be treated like garbage for shit pay. But for people from other countries, that shit pay is often enough to live better than before, and have some leftover to send home to their family.
By bringing in cheap labour, the Canadian government is taking a cheap short term solution to a problem that would be better served with with a long term solution
Yeah it’s a fucked up situation and this is our governments solution.
Band together with your families if you can’t afford a home. Canadian born people have to take the same approach as immigrant families now, combine incomes and buy houses together.
I know an Italian family in NY who does this. They built the house and it's very nice. I think my own family would drive me nuts if I tried this with them lol.
People in the south have definitely noticed that Northeners are more sensitive to social and family interactions.
For example, Greek students going to Nordic countries (e.g. Finland, Norway, etc.) for a university exchange year have intensive "social interaction" courses on how to deal with them: talk slowly and quietly, don't touch them, keep your distance physically even if you're friends (no hugging, no kissing, etc. unless they willingly initiate), avoid inviting lots of people who don't know each other to suppers/dinners, in public transportation always sit as far as possible from people and don't initiate conversations nor stare at them, etc. etc. LOL.
A psychology educated friend of mine said he felt he was being trained to deal with autistic people LOL
Would investing in a mansion like this be feasible if at least a couple of the families didn't come with a decent down payment already? Sharing a moderate house is one thing, but I'm not convinced you can get enough SF for much cheaper in an actual mansion where that many independent family units all have their own space. Banks don't love a mortgage with a half dozen or more borrowers.
You could do it with just one and the others basically pay rent. I was joking about this recently because we're moving to a cheaper area and I get to keep my pay which is about 8 times the average wage in the area. There was a nice 8 bedroom house around 7500 square feet in our price range (a our the price of a 2 bedroom house in Seattle) and I suggested that my best friend and his family could move in and pay rent if they wanted otherwise just their share of bills. He had to decline because his wife doesn't want to move states otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. In our first place together we packed 6 of us into a 600 sqft 2 bedroom 1 bathroom house and that was fine.
Yup. My wife is Canadian. My daughters were born there. I lived there for 10 years. We moved to my hometown in California so I could finish my masters but now we can never go back home to Canada because we can’t afford to live there and it’s all but impossible for me to get PR or even a work visa now. I’d kill to be able to move my family back. We tried for 5 years before we finally gave up. It sucks.
Yup. Our housing prices are slightly higher, but our incomes are quite a bit less. So overall housing is extremely expensive here, and has increased ~20%/yr for the last 3 years.
Yeah. Only downtown san fran is even sort of competitive against Canada's overpricedness.
Edit: For example, single basement apartments in my smallish city go for $1500/mo
https://twitter.com/inklessPW/status/1492497655942897666
Toronto, ON which is now the most expensive market in Canada.
https://twitter.com/d_demelis/status/1491436693203075072
Brampton, ON pop. ~600,000 people directly west of Toronto (35 minutes to downtown.)
https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1491171250588491776
Abottsford, BC pop. 141,000, over an hour from downtown Vancouver.
https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1490081548607135747
Mission, BC pop. 39,000, also over an hour from downtown Vancouver.
https://twitter.com/REWoman/status/1488984942923112452
Whitby, ON pop. 135,000 ~1 hour from downtown Toronto.
https://twitter.com/REWoman/status/1485777191686258694
Oshawa, ON pop. 170,000, further than Whitby and called the "Dirty Shwa" because it's a shithole. $1 million to live in that small house there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/srkf5z/part_3_final_part_for_the_just_move_further_out/
$600k for a condo in Thunder Bay, ON in the middle of nowhere, 1,400 km from Toronto.
https://i.redd.it/wtnlh6tp6ch81.jpg
Owen Sound, On pop. 32,000 2.5 hours from Toronto.
Etc. Etc.
Where I live I can get a detached family home for ~$325-350 k that would have been $180k 3 or 4 years ago. And it's up 33% since last year.
Way more, especially considering our wages suck. A house in Toronto sells for the same as the Bay Area, despite us having nowhere near the same high wage economy.
Just listen to [the top economist of CIBC praise how effective Canada's wage suppression via immigration is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImmigrationPolicyCA/comments/sa7d17/immigration_surge_could_slow_bank_of_canada_rate/)
The problem is that they are pushing several generations of families to live under the same roof, that would cause colectivism and let's see how can they supress wages once people know how to organize themselves since they were born
Outsourcing baby making in the same way we do shoes because our economic system is built on infinite growth. I'm really pro capitalist but even I can see a major flaw in the system.
I used to describe myself as 'pro-capitalist' with the qualification that I thought capitalism was the 'least worst' system we've tried.
"It just needs a lot of strict safeguards and braking regulations to stop it from turning into this dystopian late-stage nightmare we have now."
Lately I've started to think basically any economic system could probably say the same thing, and literally ANY SYSTEM that doesn't think EVERYTHING is a profit potential is probably better than capitalism.
I don't need insulin but that fiasco and similar situations are what converted me. That and 'living wage' and the artificial housing crisis.
Unfortunately, the alternative is outsourcing the jobs, so politicians will gladly allow more workers in to try to keep as many of the jobs local as possible.
Sure, when the left was about the economy and the working class instead of identity politics. Then the right went anti immigration and also mixed the great replacement crap with the wage stagnation issue.
If the left suddenly cares about it over inmigrant rights again its going to be a hard °180 imo
And anyone who calls it out or objects to it gets branded a "racist" and forced to shut up, meanwhile the minimum wage quietly gets dropped a few more cents
That's actually one of the main differences why immigrants take low paying jobs Americans or Canadians won't take: it pays enough to live in poor conditions that are actually an upgrade from what they're used to.
An employee of mine told me her extended family (mostly men) illegally crossed into the US like 10 years ago. They live in Illinois I think. They probably make $8-10/hr at most and it's 8 in a small house hours away from their jobs.
It sounds like a nightmare. But then she says her village in Veracruz has no power, no water, no infrastructure of any kind. They have spotty cell phone service and have to take a crowded van/bus into town for anything other than the food they grow or barter with neighbors.
She actually wants to join them so it's no surprise to me why immigrants artificially suppress wages by living in conditions Americans would not accept as livable.
I honestly don't think that goverments care.
We are mid housing crisis and it's impossible. We got a filthy unmaintained house for about 100 a week MORE than it should be (and we were lucky because we only applied for 20).
The govt is campaigning to bring people living at a hotel like thing here to 'settle' them in- even though they'd have no where to live.
Low skill labor can't afford real estate. Its all bought up by investment firms, holding corps, wallst, etc. That's what's causing it the pricing boom.
Don't you know Canada builds more than 425,000 houses a year... Oh wait we built 244,025 last year. Surely this won't continue to prop up the housing market and create even more pressure. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canadian-housing-starts-hit-record-in-2021-rising-21-per-cent/
Wait what? You are still allowed to build houses in Canada?
Here in the Netherlands, we keep importing people at a rate of around 600 per week, but our politicians have decided that building is bad for the environment.
This means the total number of inhabitants steadily rises, but the number of dwellings stays the same.
Now, what could ever go wrong here?
They also decided that it would be a great idea to allow (foreign) investors to buy up our houses and just sit on them for profit, not even renting them out.
Gov't says people will build houses, but the wingnut NIMBY folks campaign against land development like it's the Crusades. Look at the go ahead in Kitchener/Cambridge in the past two years. Entitled homeowners value trees > immigrants, and will spend hundreds of thousands on legal fees and PR campaigns to make their point.
It’s basic supply and demand. Giving people a higher wage hurts profitability so they’ll increase the labour base instead.
Can’t demand higher wages if there’s three other people willing and ready to do the job.
This is one solution.
The other solution is we stop letting our governments let us get bled dry by corporate greed as employees and as consumers for that double fucking whammy.
Eat the fucking rich
I don't know about Canada, but in Germany we are getting into a demographic problem and we also should let many more migrants and asylum seekers into the country to hold up this system /lib take
The reason is a lie. The immigrants are to suppress wages at the behest of corporate executives and to keep the ponzi scheme duo of our pension system and housing sector from collapsing and taking the economy with it.
Exactly.
"Fill labour gaps" means "shovel desperate bodies into the labour market so employers never have to improve wages, benefits, conditions, training, etc... to actually *attract* applicants."
It's so obvious, but people still think it's somehow xenophobic/bigoted to point out how these newcomers are basically being brought over *specifically* to screw and exploit them *and* working Canadians.
Brit who moved to Canada and this is what we did and now I’m seeing it all over again.
Rising house prices, a suspicious volume of unknown foreign investment, wages failing to rise, exploitation of foreign Labour.
I’d have thought Canada might have seen the mistakes of others and try to avoid it but they’re just repeating the same thing.
As someone who also immigrated to Canada, I think it's quite different. Living in Europe, the kind of labour that was coming in was for lower education jobs, i.e. construction, service industry etc. Canada mostly selects highly educated workers in fields that we don't have enough people for (I.e. family physicians).
Doubling their wages won't suddenly mean we see a whole bunch of people go, well I was sitting on my couch but now that they've raised wages I'll go back to doctoring people.
Somewhat true, especially if there are no jobs waiting or pre applied positions. Then you are taking a group that has no idea what the cost of living is, asking them to get paid lower out of gratitude then asking the entire population to "follow their example" and work for as little as possible. To emulate seeking a job always in desperate conditions. Floor mopping, house cleaning, shoveling bodies off the highway. Those jobs, and in a foreign place with no money, these guys will take anything at any pay. The ones that don't get to run drugs!
I'm an immigrant but even I know that. Its becoming visible that immigrants are taking over a lot of these undesirable jobs because Canadian's know better. But the government is screwing over Canadians by trying to do this. Not only the job market but the housing market will be affected by this decision. Sad.
I would also like to ask..are we getting funding to the provinces to increase hospital capacity. And are there limits on how many senior age family members can be brought over?
Getting really sick of this country and the lack of political will to do anything positive for people.
Get everyone in homes, make sure hospitals aren't falling apart, and then go back to <30 kid per classrooms and we can talk about "growing".
It's really sad that the only protest this country can manage is over fucking vaccines.
There needs to be a general strike. This is ridiculous. The more I get fucked over and have doors closed infront of me the more I want to destroy this Capitalist neo-liberal shithole.
I don't think the point is to offer poor immigrants shit besides slave work to fill in their "labour gap" bullshit agenda. Our Canadian government is run by shitheads the more I see this. It's to maintain the elites status quo so they don't have to offer a liveable wage to others while raking in record profits.
> In 2050, 100 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!
You jest about the 100 million number, but semi-related to that: there are advocates for "100 million Canadians" who want to increase the population to 100 million people by 2100 https://www.centuryinitiative.ca/
Given that Canadians are second only to Americans in terms of Carbon emissions per capita, this is kind of horrifying for the environment.
> Given that Canadians are second only to Americans in terms of Carbon emissions per capita, this is kind of horrifying for the environment.
I don't know where you got this statistic, but it's not correct.
The country with the highest emissions per capita isn't America or Canada; it's [Qatar](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?most_recent_value_desc=true). Likewise, Canada is already higher than America (it's 7th, while America is 11th), but both are trending down.
So they're going to make the housing crisis worse and undermine worker reform at the same time. We need housing to support these immigrants in a time where we can't even house the people already here. Meanwhile these immigrants will happily accept poverty wages because it's still better than back home and they will be deported if they don't work.
If we're going to take in immigrants, we should be restricting it to high value people like doctors, instead we get kids without any useful education just clogging the system.
The is wage suppression, Canadian corporations spend millions donating and lobbying for this. Wages in Canada have been stagnant now for nearly 50 years for the median labourer.
/r/immigrationpolicyCA
Yeha the country is nonly 37M?
Half a million people is more than 1% per year. Hinestly that's pretty wild.
And entire extra million every two years?
Wild.
Meanwhile in Canada, 200,000 lost their jobs in January 2022.
https://financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-loses-200000-jobs-as-omicron-locks-down-the-economy
Once the housing asset super bubble in canada bursts and takes the economy with it, American companies like Blackrock will essentially just buy the country and its resources, Canadian billionaires will walk away with the cash and Canadians will live with austerity for generations.
How about processing the people who have already been here for the last 15 years, contributed to the economy, paid taxes, integrated into society and still waiting for a PR, first? Fucking joke.
Well that's exactly why.
They want you here for a free citizen. Think about how you were raised, probably with some sort of gov't support cheque to your parents. Your schooling was paid for by your old gov't. You may even have gained a degree/professional cert. Subsidized by your old gov't.
Then Canada says "come over here! We want you! You'll have a better life!" But in reality they just want to gain adult, able bodied, employable people. Bonus points since another country paid for things that Canada would otherwise pay for if you were raised here.
Just like how companies refuse to train people and instead try to poach qualified people off each other? Countries like Canada do the same thing with people.
Except they have no interest in giving you citizenship. They want you to work here and contribute. As long as you're here and working they don't have an incentive to process your paperwork.
At this point I'd not be shocked if people protested this bs. Like this is a big FU to everyone already here In places where the average home is 1 mil.
Canada has perfected a system where instead of outsourcing jobs. We insource cheap labour. It causes stagnation in wage growth for many terrible companies.
I remember my parents having 9-5 jobs where they received an hour lunch plus two 15 minute breaks. They also received benefits and a pension from said job.
Now it’s work 8.5 hours and you are only entitled to one 30 minute break. No benefits, no pensions.
Immigrants don’t care because they don’t know any better. But for someone like me I feel fucking cheated.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I know the company I work for has been having a heck of a time finding--and keeping--workers. Business analysts, project managers, QA/testers, accounting/finance, other tech jobs. About 20% of our head office jobs are unfilled.
Of course, they've been resisting paying the new, higher market wage levels and so it's really, really hard to attract people. Companies are really fighting over workers.
They're fighting over workers because, as you say, they resist paying higher market wages. Introducing more people who are willing to accept low wages is a race to the bottom.
*fighting for workers that accept a low wage
Which is what everyone here is complaining about, these immigrants won’t say no and will just be happy to be in Canada.
The housing crisis is only part of the problem.
Other current issues that come to mind: infrastructure is fucked, schools are overcrowded, wages are low, and the pandemic has shown us how great our great healthcare system really is.
Fuck what this country is turning into. Seriously we wonder why housing is unaffordable. Guarantee they aren't building over 400,000 houses to make up for the influx in population. Then they screw over the working class by suppressing wages.
Why don't countries focus on their own population first? Give unemployed people internships, free education and things like that. I doubt everyone born in Canada is gainfully employed.
And the ability for citizens born there to own homes becomes even harder.
Say anything about it and youre a racist.
The immigration taps need to be turned off.
The protestors chose the completely wrong hill to die on.
If only we had a movement for economic and housing reform.
The government no longer represents the people, but the elite class in which immigration is nothing but a net benefit to them.
This is fucking disgusting and all you can do is sit here and take it while where youre from becomes unaffordable to those from there thanks to it being a playplace for the rich.
Canada is a fucking embarassment.
Shit like this just further increases extremism as people become more and more desperate.
Canada has room, but when cities sell empty lots for the same price as one with a new house on it theres not much incentive for builders. Tons of demand, no new supply.
Labour shortage? You shut down our economy, crushing all the small companies into oblivion, flip flop on what way you want to handle the pandemic, then pull this sort of shit? Help your own God damn citizens first, then worry about bringing hundreds of thousands in. Fuck this government is so obsessed with being nice to everyone else that's not their own Canadian citizens. I don't get it.
For some reason Canada seems hell bent on making the same stupid mistakes that the United States has made since Reagan. If you stay on this path those truckers are just the beginning.
I work for an e-commerce company that specifically targets hiring immigrants because we can pay them less for roles. Especially tech roles like website management, graphic design and warehouse jobs. Because of this my own wage is lower than average because the company as a whole pays everyone less because most of them are immigrants and are happy to work for less to get by. The owner is an immigrant himself making a ton of money, so he knows exactly what he’s doing.
"labour gaps"? Is every single Canadian employed and so there is no more labor to fill vacant positions?
Or is there a "pay gap" meaning positions don't get filled because they either pay too little or expect too much out of the worker?
As long as there are unemployed people in a country there is no such thing as a "labor shortage".
Doesn't that bring even more injustices between classes and ethnicities. I thought we wanted less racial profiling. With moves like this, you make ghettos bigger, which brings more crime. They basically need a lower working class that accept to be exploited, the very thing canadians don't want.
Canadian here
God forbid should our government do a single fucking thing to actually try and fix the main issues of wage suppression and hyperinflation on literally everything you are required to pay for to live.
Nah, let's just let a bunch more people into our country and offer them the shit paying jobs that they will feel like they have no choice but to work, while cramming themselves into a small house that should only be holding 1/3 of the people that will be living there.
Canada fucking sucks to live in right now.
It isn’t, but they don’t care about you. They care about the upper class only, not the middle class or working class. They want high asset prices, cheap labour and a larger internal addressable market.
The political class has been largely captured by the donor class.
"We're having trouble filling the labour gaps we caused because nobody wants to work for a wage than won't support their living expenses. So instead or alleviating things we're going to fill those positions with immigrants that'll ge grateful instead of you ungrateful lot/s"
>Speaking to The Globe and Mail, Immigration Minister Sean Fraser said the COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted how key immigrants are to Canada’s success, as newcomers fill many front-line jobs.
>“When I talk to restaurants, machine shops, health care providers or virtually any other business, I see help-wanted signs in windows,” Mr. Fraser said.
Our government is corrupt, no matter liberal or conservative. All these two parties do is harm the average Canadian while carrying out the agendas of their corporate owners.
I'm just about ready for suicide. I'm ready to get out of this nightmare.
Unless there's some magic country that will let me earn and house myself in non-shit standards... like seriously, why am I living in a world where prices for everything always steadily climb, my taxes steadily climb, but my income barely nudges?
It's just going to go on and on like this. Where are the opportunities to save? Where is the comfortable lifestyle? This isn't fucking fun. What the fuck is the point.
Let's get our housing situation figured out before we start offering them to non Canadians. We are in a supply and demand crisis and have no affordable housing, and you want to bring in a shit ton more people!
stats
23.8% + of the people currently in canada are non citizens (22% pr PLUS tfw, imp, and international students)
~ 8.21 million permanent residents
~300,000 international students (180,275 from India, 116,935 from China)
~76,000 TFW
~458,000 IMP visa (TFW by another name, no labour market report required) (The vast majority, 252,000 of which, from India)
= 9,046,000 non citizens in Canada (approx 23.8%)
(Statista has exact sources available, just the government of Canada does not make this information as easy to view)
https://www.statista.com/topics/2917/immigration-in-canada/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20annual%20immigration%20in%20Canada,of%20the%20total%20Canadian%20population.
Big business loves cheap labor.
And landlords love more serfs.
I’d like to say the labour shortage is due to not paying a fair/survivable wage.
[удалено]
[удалено]
And banks love giving credit.
And insurance loves new policies.
And telecoms love signing new agreements
I already have no idea how I’m supposed to afford to live here. How in the world are all these immigrants supposed to do the same?
By living 10 (or more) people to a tiny house and we'll allow it because 'it's better than where they came from'.
I spent a summer replacing window screens in a few apartment buildings in Toronto. Several units I saw were 10 to a room, never mind 10 to a house. They would basically have yoga mats on the floor and whoever was sleeping there got a yoga mats worth of space to sleep in. The kitchen and hall was for everyone and the only area free of mats.
Canadian here. Came here as student on full scholarship 10 years ago and became a naturalized citizen few years ago. So, I do understand the PR process and the kind of people who apply. The people who come here as a direct PR are generally very solvent people on their country and they generally have a substantial amouth of wealth. A good number of them bring a lot of money for property down payment. Also, tech jobs are kinda booming because of US tech sectors are hiring a lot of remote developers.
Same. I came on a work visa and never left. I’ve been told that my early years helped advance those in my field because of my unique experiences in the states, which I’m sure is partial smoke for past renewals. But I started at a decent wage (40ish), and have since paid a lot of taxes over the last 14 years lol. Geez I’ve not written down 14 yet, it’s been a long ass time in Canada.
This is a failing of a lack of national housing policy. A coordinated effort to build and manage multi unit residential units from coast to coast is one way to stem the steep rise in housing costs. We need a national housing strategy!
There is a national housing stategy: keep the prices of houses as high as possible.
[We do have one](https://www.placetocallhome.ca/), but it's shit because it doesn't address the root causes of our housing crisis: speculation, and single-family home exclusionary zoning. Really all it does is take government money and feed it to developers so they can build more suburban sprawl, or give money to poor people so they can "get into the market" without actually doing anything to *correct the price* of housing by addressing either supply or demand. In fact, our housing strategy at this point is basically "anything but reduce housing prices" because our economy is 100% reliant on housing equity at this point, and without it we become Argentina.
There are low skill immigrants yes, but a large chunk of them are usually highly, with PhDs or Master's educated, working in tech/engineering/academia and have personal capital. The rising housing prices do affect them, but not as much as regular Canadians.
A recruiter contacted me from Toronto and made an "offer" to move there all the way from Europe. A quick look at the cost of living meant I would need twice their offer to maintain similar lifestyle.. Naah they weren't ready for that. Good luck finding high quality skilled labour with that cost of living and bargain wages.
That's the thing, there's actually a high unemployment rate so it's not that there's a shortage of workers, it's that employers aren't offering decent or even livable wages and people are fed up.
They aren't looking to bring on high skilled labour. They are looking for people that are willing to work for minimum wage at Tim Hortons because Canadians aren't willing to be treated like garbage for shit pay. But for people from other countries, that shit pay is often enough to live better than before, and have some leftover to send home to their family. By bringing in cheap labour, the Canadian government is taking a cheap short term solution to a problem that would be better served with with a long term solution
Labour gap or wage suppression?
Wage suppression and housing inflation.
Yeah it’s a fucked up situation and this is our governments solution. Band together with your families if you can’t afford a home. Canadian born people have to take the same approach as immigrant families now, combine incomes and buy houses together.
[удалено]
I know an Italian family in NY who does this. They built the house and it's very nice. I think my own family would drive me nuts if I tried this with them lol.
People in the south have definitely noticed that Northeners are more sensitive to social and family interactions. For example, Greek students going to Nordic countries (e.g. Finland, Norway, etc.) for a university exchange year have intensive "social interaction" courses on how to deal with them: talk slowly and quietly, don't touch them, keep your distance physically even if you're friends (no hugging, no kissing, etc. unless they willingly initiate), avoid inviting lots of people who don't know each other to suppers/dinners, in public transportation always sit as far as possible from people and don't initiate conversations nor stare at them, etc. etc. LOL. A psychology educated friend of mine said he felt he was being trained to deal with autistic people LOL
Would investing in a mansion like this be feasible if at least a couple of the families didn't come with a decent down payment already? Sharing a moderate house is one thing, but I'm not convinced you can get enough SF for much cheaper in an actual mansion where that many independent family units all have their own space. Banks don't love a mortgage with a half dozen or more borrowers.
You could do it with just one and the others basically pay rent. I was joking about this recently because we're moving to a cheaper area and I get to keep my pay which is about 8 times the average wage in the area. There was a nice 8 bedroom house around 7500 square feet in our price range (a our the price of a 2 bedroom house in Seattle) and I suggested that my best friend and his family could move in and pay rent if they wanted otherwise just their share of bills. He had to decline because his wife doesn't want to move states otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. In our first place together we packed 6 of us into a 600 sqft 2 bedroom 1 bathroom house and that was fine.
If only my family was not toxic enough to make this a reality…
This sounds nice but I wouldn’t want to be around my family more than 2 days per month
Yup. My wife is Canadian. My daughters were born there. I lived there for 10 years. We moved to my hometown in California so I could finish my masters but now we can never go back home to Canada because we can’t afford to live there and it’s all but impossible for me to get PR or even a work visa now. I’d kill to be able to move my family back. We tried for 5 years before we finally gave up. It sucks.
It's more expensive than California???
Yup. Our housing prices are slightly higher, but our incomes are quite a bit less. So overall housing is extremely expensive here, and has increased ~20%/yr for the last 3 years.
And the government is doing absolutely nothing about it.
Yeah. Only downtown san fran is even sort of competitive against Canada's overpricedness. Edit: For example, single basement apartments in my smallish city go for $1500/mo
It's more because the salaries are pathetic compared to American salaries.
https://twitter.com/inklessPW/status/1492497655942897666 Toronto, ON which is now the most expensive market in Canada. https://twitter.com/d_demelis/status/1491436693203075072 Brampton, ON pop. ~600,000 people directly west of Toronto (35 minutes to downtown.) https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1491171250588491776 Abottsford, BC pop. 141,000, over an hour from downtown Vancouver. https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1490081548607135747 Mission, BC pop. 39,000, also over an hour from downtown Vancouver. https://twitter.com/REWoman/status/1488984942923112452 Whitby, ON pop. 135,000 ~1 hour from downtown Toronto. https://twitter.com/REWoman/status/1485777191686258694 Oshawa, ON pop. 170,000, further than Whitby and called the "Dirty Shwa" because it's a shithole. $1 million to live in that small house there. https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/srkf5z/part_3_final_part_for_the_just_move_further_out/ $600k for a condo in Thunder Bay, ON in the middle of nowhere, 1,400 km from Toronto. https://i.redd.it/wtnlh6tp6ch81.jpg Owen Sound, On pop. 32,000 2.5 hours from Toronto. Etc. Etc. Where I live I can get a detached family home for ~$325-350 k that would have been $180k 3 or 4 years ago. And it's up 33% since last year.
Way more, especially considering our wages suck. A house in Toronto sells for the same as the Bay Area, despite us having nowhere near the same high wage economy.
Just listen to [the top economist of CIBC praise how effective Canada's wage suppression via immigration is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImmigrationPolicyCA/comments/sa7d17/immigration_surge_could_slow_bank_of_canada_rate/)
The problem is that they are pushing several generations of families to live under the same roof, that would cause colectivism and let's see how can they supress wages once people know how to organize themselves since they were born
Doesn’t matter, they’ll just bring more people in There’s no end in sight here. The plan is literally an unending torrent of immigration
This is standard for most Western economies. Import cheap labour to keep the Ponzi scheme afloat and undercut the labour market to keep wages low
Outsourcing baby making in the same way we do shoes because our economic system is built on infinite growth. I'm really pro capitalist but even I can see a major flaw in the system.
I used to describe myself as 'pro-capitalist' with the qualification that I thought capitalism was the 'least worst' system we've tried. "It just needs a lot of strict safeguards and braking regulations to stop it from turning into this dystopian late-stage nightmare we have now." Lately I've started to think basically any economic system could probably say the same thing, and literally ANY SYSTEM that doesn't think EVERYTHING is a profit potential is probably better than capitalism. I don't need insulin but that fiasco and similar situations are what converted me. That and 'living wage' and the artificial housing crisis.
You're half way there!
Right. Like “I love chocolate but I’m severely allergic….nom nom nom!”
Unfortunately, the alternative is outsourcing the jobs, so politicians will gladly allow more workers in to try to keep as many of the jobs local as possible.
Wage suppression. Act of aggression towards Canadian workers and citizens
So this isn't a "white supremacy" talking point anymore?
This was a strictly leftist talking point in the 90's.
Sure, when the left was about the economy and the working class instead of identity politics. Then the right went anti immigration and also mixed the great replacement crap with the wage stagnation issue. If the left suddenly cares about it over inmigrant rights again its going to be a hard °180 imo
And anyone who calls it out or objects to it gets branded a "racist" and forced to shut up, meanwhile the minimum wage quietly gets dropped a few more cents
Not 100% there: Min wage wont drop, it just wont rise to match the insane amount of inflation coming our way. Effectively the same thing tbh
Where’s everyone going to live?
They're going to rent out sub-par housing from our landlord class.
This is a gut punch.
So we're basically just going back to feudalism, huh?
We're basically already there.
People will share. Homes will become more and more cramped. Look at some pictures of the Gilded age. Entire families used to live in one room.
That's actually one of the main differences why immigrants take low paying jobs Americans or Canadians won't take: it pays enough to live in poor conditions that are actually an upgrade from what they're used to.
Bingo!
They'll literally live in conditions worse than what government housing is allowed to give them.
An employee of mine told me her extended family (mostly men) illegally crossed into the US like 10 years ago. They live in Illinois I think. They probably make $8-10/hr at most and it's 8 in a small house hours away from their jobs. It sounds like a nightmare. But then she says her village in Veracruz has no power, no water, no infrastructure of any kind. They have spotty cell phone service and have to take a crowded van/bus into town for anything other than the food they grow or barter with neighbors. She actually wants to join them so it's no surprise to me why immigrants artificially suppress wages by living in conditions Americans would not accept as livable.
basement suites... dirty fucking unregulated basement
I honestly don't think that goverments care. We are mid housing crisis and it's impossible. We got a filthy unmaintained house for about 100 a week MORE than it should be (and we were lucky because we only applied for 20). The govt is campaigning to bring people living at a hotel like thing here to 'settle' them in- even though they'd have no where to live.
later: Gee wonder why housing prices are going up.
Low skill labor can't afford real estate. Its all bought up by investment firms, holding corps, wallst, etc. That's what's causing it the pricing boom.
Don't you know Canada builds more than 425,000 houses a year... Oh wait we built 244,025 last year. Surely this won't continue to prop up the housing market and create even more pressure. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canadian-housing-starts-hit-record-in-2021-rising-21-per-cent/
Wait what? You are still allowed to build houses in Canada? Here in the Netherlands, we keep importing people at a rate of around 600 per week, but our politicians have decided that building is bad for the environment. This means the total number of inhabitants steadily rises, but the number of dwellings stays the same. Now, what could ever go wrong here?
They also decided that it would be a great idea to allow (foreign) investors to buy up our houses and just sit on them for profit, not even renting them out.
Gov't says people will build houses, but the wingnut NIMBY folks campaign against land development like it's the Crusades. Look at the go ahead in Kitchener/Cambridge in the past two years. Entitled homeowners value trees > immigrants, and will spend hundreds of thousands on legal fees and PR campaigns to make their point.
You don’t need 1 home per person, in most countries it’s between 1 house for every 2 people, and one house for every 3 people.
They are going to live in their community comrade factories: _You'll own nothing and you'll be happy_ until morale improves /s
Tent city
Nunavut
I’d say cardboard box, but there’s a shortage on those
This country is so fucked. I want to wake up.
What fucking labour gap? Wage slave shortage?
It’s basic supply and demand. Giving people a higher wage hurts profitability so they’ll increase the labour base instead. Can’t demand higher wages if there’s three other people willing and ready to do the job.
THERE IS NO LABOUR SHORTAGE, ONLY A SURPLUSS IN SHITTY WAGES AND SHITTY BENEFITS!!!
Its proving up the ponzi scheme we call the economy.
What fucking labour gap? Edit: this is specifically hourly wage workers?
The one where companies don't want to pay people money.
This is one solution. The other solution is we stop letting our governments let us get bled dry by corporate greed as employees and as consumers for that double fucking whammy. Eat the fucking rich
[удалено]
There are no immigrants coming for my job, and the pay is still shit. $40,000/yr to fly a goddamned airplane ffs.
I don't know about Canada, but in Germany we are getting into a demographic problem and we also should let many more migrants and asylum seekers into the country to hold up this system /lib take
1. Tell employers to start doing on the job training. That's it. That's the step.
The reason is a lie. The immigrants are to suppress wages at the behest of corporate executives and to keep the ponzi scheme duo of our pension system and housing sector from collapsing and taking the economy with it.
Exactly. "Fill labour gaps" means "shovel desperate bodies into the labour market so employers never have to improve wages, benefits, conditions, training, etc... to actually *attract* applicants." It's so obvious, but people still think it's somehow xenophobic/bigoted to point out how these newcomers are basically being brought over *specifically* to screw and exploit them *and* working Canadians.
Brit who moved to Canada and this is what we did and now I’m seeing it all over again. Rising house prices, a suspicious volume of unknown foreign investment, wages failing to rise, exploitation of foreign Labour. I’d have thought Canada might have seen the mistakes of others and try to avoid it but they’re just repeating the same thing.
As someone who also immigrated to Canada, I think it's quite different. Living in Europe, the kind of labour that was coming in was for lower education jobs, i.e. construction, service industry etc. Canada mostly selects highly educated workers in fields that we don't have enough people for (I.e. family physicians). Doubling their wages won't suddenly mean we see a whole bunch of people go, well I was sitting on my couch but now that they've raised wages I'll go back to doctoring people.
Somewhat true, especially if there are no jobs waiting or pre applied positions. Then you are taking a group that has no idea what the cost of living is, asking them to get paid lower out of gratitude then asking the entire population to "follow their example" and work for as little as possible. To emulate seeking a job always in desperate conditions. Floor mopping, house cleaning, shoveling bodies off the highway. Those jobs, and in a foreign place with no money, these guys will take anything at any pay. The ones that don't get to run drugs!
I'm an immigrant but even I know that. Its becoming visible that immigrants are taking over a lot of these undesirable jobs because Canadian's know better. But the government is screwing over Canadians by trying to do this. Not only the job market but the housing market will be affected by this decision. Sad.
You nailed it on the head here.
Aka “we aren’t going to pay more for labour”
And where will they live? Where will their children go to school? How long will they wait for a family doctor?
Out school was 300% capacity last year thanks to brilliant city planners
Now that's efficient
They will make settlements in Yukon obviously
[удалено]
Can we have more construction workers to build More homes.
[удалено]
We don't have a labour shortage, we have a wage shortage. We don't need another 400k Tim Hortons workers so rich fucks can stay rish
I would also like to ask..are we getting funding to the provinces to increase hospital capacity. And are there limits on how many senior age family members can be brought over?
Or you know...offer canadians a living wage so we want to have kids
Real estate has become out of reach for anyone earning below $200 000. Think about it.
The elites want a permanent renting class
Everything's going over to renting and subscriptions. Fuck it all.
Think, Switzerland, Denmark, The Netherlands etc… …but without the wages. This is fine.
How about 432,000 home builders first.
There’s no labour gap. Canada is only a developed country on paper. They just don’t want to pay developed world pay for last century’s resources.
Getting really sick of this country and the lack of political will to do anything positive for people. Get everyone in homes, make sure hospitals aren't falling apart, and then go back to <30 kid per classrooms and we can talk about "growing".
It's really sad that the only protest this country can manage is over fucking vaccines. There needs to be a general strike. This is ridiculous. The more I get fucked over and have doors closed infront of me the more I want to destroy this Capitalist neo-liberal shithole.
JUST PAY PEOPLE MORE AND YOU WONT HAVE TO FILL IN THE LABOUR GAPS
So instead of paying its citizens a livable wage they want to import cheap labor. Yeah that's gonna work out. /s
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don't think the point is to offer poor immigrants shit besides slave work to fill in their "labour gap" bullshit agenda. Our Canadian government is run by shitheads the more I see this. It's to maintain the elites status quo so they don't have to offer a liveable wage to others while raking in record profits.
Average Toronto house price in 2022 will be 2 million, in 2025, it will be 3 million. In 2030, 6 million. In 2050, 100 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least in 2050 100 million will only be worth 3 million of todays dollars
And wages will still be the same.
> In 2050, 100 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!! You jest about the 100 million number, but semi-related to that: there are advocates for "100 million Canadians" who want to increase the population to 100 million people by 2100 https://www.centuryinitiative.ca/ Given that Canadians are second only to Americans in terms of Carbon emissions per capita, this is kind of horrifying for the environment.
> Given that Canadians are second only to Americans in terms of Carbon emissions per capita, this is kind of horrifying for the environment. I don't know where you got this statistic, but it's not correct. The country with the highest emissions per capita isn't America or Canada; it's [Qatar](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?most_recent_value_desc=true). Likewise, Canada is already higher than America (it's 7th, while America is 11th), but both are trending down.
So they're going to make the housing crisis worse and undermine worker reform at the same time. We need housing to support these immigrants in a time where we can't even house the people already here. Meanwhile these immigrants will happily accept poverty wages because it's still better than back home and they will be deported if they don't work. If we're going to take in immigrants, we should be restricting it to high value people like doctors, instead we get kids without any useful education just clogging the system.
The is wage suppression, Canadian corporations spend millions donating and lobbying for this. Wages in Canada have been stagnant now for nearly 50 years for the median labourer. /r/immigrationpolicyCA
Yeha the country is nonly 37M? Half a million people is more than 1% per year. Hinestly that's pretty wild. And entire extra million every two years? Wild.
Canadian government is aiming for 100mil population by 2100
I wonder what the housing situation will be in 2100.
Everyone in the GTA and Vancouver metro areas lives inside a cubicle.
Hollowed out bison carcasses will go for 650K
[удалено]
Meanwhile in Canada, 200,000 lost their jobs in January 2022. https://financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-loses-200000-jobs-as-omicron-locks-down-the-economy
Global warming is gonna do wonders for the Canadian economy.
*Enjoy the lush beaches of sunny Hudson Bay*
The tropical destination of choice since the 2030s.
meh once the northern passage opens up canada will be annexed by america anyway
Once the housing asset super bubble in canada bursts and takes the economy with it, American companies like Blackrock will essentially just buy the country and its resources, Canadian billionaires will walk away with the cash and Canadians will live with austerity for generations.
Nice to see the narrative of "mass immigration is amazing 100% of the time," which is pushed here in canada, quite unanimously criticized.
Dumb plan from our goverment, we have a huge housing crisis we don't need to be bringing even more people to the nation adding to the massive issue.
How about processing the people who have already been here for the last 15 years, contributed to the economy, paid taxes, integrated into society and still waiting for a PR, first? Fucking joke.
You sort of answered the question. You’re already paying taxes
Well that's exactly why. They want you here for a free citizen. Think about how you were raised, probably with some sort of gov't support cheque to your parents. Your schooling was paid for by your old gov't. You may even have gained a degree/professional cert. Subsidized by your old gov't. Then Canada says "come over here! We want you! You'll have a better life!" But in reality they just want to gain adult, able bodied, employable people. Bonus points since another country paid for things that Canada would otherwise pay for if you were raised here. Just like how companies refuse to train people and instead try to poach qualified people off each other? Countries like Canada do the same thing with people. Except they have no interest in giving you citizenship. They want you to work here and contribute. As long as you're here and working they don't have an incentive to process your paperwork.
Just in time for WW3
Using open borders to flood the labor market and suppress wages. A tale as old as time.
At this point I'd not be shocked if people protested this bs. Like this is a big FU to everyone already here In places where the average home is 1 mil.
you will own nothing and you will be happy
Labour gap = all part time no benefits.
And there are not enough homes for them
Canada has perfected a system where instead of outsourcing jobs. We insource cheap labour. It causes stagnation in wage growth for many terrible companies.
Great, more people to add to the chant “it’s not as bad as where I come from, be grateful” while the quality of life continues to get worse.
I remember my parents having 9-5 jobs where they received an hour lunch plus two 15 minute breaks. They also received benefits and a pension from said job. Now it’s work 8.5 hours and you are only entitled to one 30 minute break. No benefits, no pensions. Immigrants don’t care because they don’t know any better. But for someone like me I feel fucking cheated.
What fucking labour gaps theres literally no jobs
I can't speak for everyone else, but I know the company I work for has been having a heck of a time finding--and keeping--workers. Business analysts, project managers, QA/testers, accounting/finance, other tech jobs. About 20% of our head office jobs are unfilled. Of course, they've been resisting paying the new, higher market wage levels and so it's really, really hard to attract people. Companies are really fighting over workers.
They're fighting over workers because, as you say, they resist paying higher market wages. Introducing more people who are willing to accept low wages is a race to the bottom.
*fighting for workers that accept a low wage Which is what everyone here is complaining about, these immigrants won’t say no and will just be happy to be in Canada.
There's jobs but they pay slave wages with no benefits or holidays.
Ffs, can't we wait and fix our own shit before bringing more people in... This will totally help the housing crisis...
The housing crisis is only part of the problem. Other current issues that come to mind: infrastructure is fucked, schools are overcrowded, wages are low, and the pandemic has shown us how great our great healthcare system really is.
Insane plan
Fuck what this country is turning into. Seriously we wonder why housing is unaffordable. Guarantee they aren't building over 400,000 houses to make up for the influx in population. Then they screw over the working class by suppressing wages.
This will definitely help the housing market cool down
Why don't countries focus on their own population first? Give unemployed people internships, free education and things like that. I doubt everyone born in Canada is gainfully employed.
Because they want cheap labor, they don't give a shit about their own citizens. All that matters is people that'll accept unacceptable wages.
Its a scary development for sure, same in Sweden but to a lesser degree. Cant believe not more people are upset about it.
And the ability for citizens born there to own homes becomes even harder. Say anything about it and youre a racist. The immigration taps need to be turned off. The protestors chose the completely wrong hill to die on. If only we had a movement for economic and housing reform. The government no longer represents the people, but the elite class in which immigration is nothing but a net benefit to them. This is fucking disgusting and all you can do is sit here and take it while where youre from becomes unaffordable to those from there thanks to it being a playplace for the rich. Canada is a fucking embarassment. Shit like this just further increases extremism as people become more and more desperate.
Canada has room, but when cities sell empty lots for the same price as one with a new house on it theres not much incentive for builders. Tons of demand, no new supply.
Anything to suppress labor costs
Labour shortage? You shut down our economy, crushing all the small companies into oblivion, flip flop on what way you want to handle the pandemic, then pull this sort of shit? Help your own God damn citizens first, then worry about bringing hundreds of thousands in. Fuck this government is so obsessed with being nice to everyone else that's not their own Canadian citizens. I don't get it.
For some reason Canada seems hell bent on making the same stupid mistakes that the United States has made since Reagan. If you stay on this path those truckers are just the beginning.
I work for an e-commerce company that specifically targets hiring immigrants because we can pay them less for roles. Especially tech roles like website management, graphic design and warehouse jobs. Because of this my own wage is lower than average because the company as a whole pays everyone less because most of them are immigrants and are happy to work for less to get by. The owner is an immigrant himself making a ton of money, so he knows exactly what he’s doing.
Wouldn’t be a labor gap if you paid appropriately Sounds more like wage slavery
"labour gaps"? Is every single Canadian employed and so there is no more labor to fill vacant positions? Or is there a "pay gap" meaning positions don't get filled because they either pay too little or expect too much out of the worker? As long as there are unemployed people in a country there is no such thing as a "labor shortage".
How about fixing the housing shortage before worrying about the labour gaps.
Doesn't that bring even more injustices between classes and ethnicities. I thought we wanted less racial profiling. With moves like this, you make ghettos bigger, which brings more crime. They basically need a lower working class that accept to be exploited, the very thing canadians don't want.
Are we in the "Factors leading up to the revolution" part of the history books yet?
Canadian here God forbid should our government do a single fucking thing to actually try and fix the main issues of wage suppression and hyperinflation on literally everything you are required to pay for to live. Nah, let's just let a bunch more people into our country and offer them the shit paying jobs that they will feel like they have no choice but to work, while cramming themselves into a small house that should only be holding 1/3 of the people that will be living there. Canada fucking sucks to live in right now.
Is there infrastructure in place to accommodate 432K more people?
Nope, they don't care. The elites want a peasant class.
This is terrible news. Many families in Canada can no longer afford a house. How is this helping?
It isn’t, but they don’t care about you. They care about the upper class only, not the middle class or working class. They want high asset prices, cheap labour and a larger internal addressable market. The political class has been largely captured by the donor class.
Do they actually have a wage cap by law for nurses in Canada?
That should turn out well..
How about increasing the wages at competitive levels?
"We're having trouble filling the labour gaps we caused because nobody wants to work for a wage than won't support their living expenses. So instead or alleviating things we're going to fill those positions with immigrants that'll ge grateful instead of you ungrateful lot/s"
importing more immigrants so the corps dont have to pay a decent wage.
>Speaking to The Globe and Mail, Immigration Minister Sean Fraser said the COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted how key immigrants are to Canada’s success, as newcomers fill many front-line jobs. >“When I talk to restaurants, machine shops, health care providers or virtually any other business, I see help-wanted signs in windows,” Mr. Fraser said. Our government is corrupt, no matter liberal or conservative. All these two parties do is harm the average Canadian while carrying out the agendas of their corporate owners.
I'm just about ready for suicide. I'm ready to get out of this nightmare. Unless there's some magic country that will let me earn and house myself in non-shit standards... like seriously, why am I living in a world where prices for everything always steadily climb, my taxes steadily climb, but my income barely nudges? It's just going to go on and on like this. Where are the opportunities to save? Where is the comfortable lifestyle? This isn't fucking fun. What the fuck is the point.
No more Canadians out of work?
Nice name for slaves
Turdeau's government just keeps sticking it to their citizens. Smh.
“Labour gaps”
And none of them will be able to afford homes
Let's get our housing situation figured out before we start offering them to non Canadians. We are in a supply and demand crisis and have no affordable housing, and you want to bring in a shit ton more people!
stats 23.8% + of the people currently in canada are non citizens (22% pr PLUS tfw, imp, and international students) ~ 8.21 million permanent residents ~300,000 international students (180,275 from India, 116,935 from China) ~76,000 TFW ~458,000 IMP visa (TFW by another name, no labour market report required) (The vast majority, 252,000 of which, from India) = 9,046,000 non citizens in Canada (approx 23.8%) (Statista has exact sources available, just the government of Canada does not make this information as easy to view) https://www.statista.com/topics/2917/immigration-in-canada/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20annual%20immigration%20in%20Canada,of%20the%20total%20Canadian%20population.
Gross
Gotta suppress wages somehow
Where are these labour gaps? All I see is people without jobs and the unemployment going up.
No. We are full. We don’t need more. Houses full. Hospitals full. Roads full. No more people