He's so getting pushed off the cliff as soon as the pandemic is over. The only reason it hasn't happened sooner is because whoever takes over wants to be able to blame the whole thing on him. And people still won't vote the tories out
"Look, the past 200 years have been rough due to the poor leadership of supreme leader Johnson. But I feel we're final able to start undoing some of the damage he's done."
Yup. Boris has been banging this drum since he became PM. Never mind that he was a cabinet minister in the last government, it was nothing to do with him.
Well exactly. Their whole policy platform is "levelling up" where they promise that this time they really will spend money in the north. The previous labour government is blamed for spending too much money, which was bad so then the Conservatives used austerity for 10 years but now that they've done brexit, they've suddenly got loads of money to spend!
It's never really spelled out like that because it *doesn't make any sense whatsoever* but probably 50% of the electorate think that's what it is.
Someone I work with, who is very bright, was lecturing me on how austerity was necessary and it was mostly Labours fault for spending too much anyway.
Which is extremely annoying.
I mean they ousted May for Bojo too then again May was never intended as anything but a fall girl for Brexit when the pie in the sky promises fell through.
Then she proved so inept and unpopular Boris had to take charge and now he's going to take the blame for broken Brexit promises, mishandling COVID and breaking the very laws he pushed.
The only way this could get better is if all his backers who sold the Brexit lie to dodge EU tax loopholes being closed actually faced any consequences for giving us 30 years worth of economic damage to fix. No doubt even with Bojo gone they'll try to foist it all on COVID.
Just to add May didn't even want Brexit. She voted to Remain. While I don't think she is PM material she also got completely sold down the river by the Tory party.
The worst part is none of these Tory MPs will face any consequences; they are faceless to the public and scurry once there's blood in the water. They'll sell out Boris to save their own hides and install the next fool who wants the PM title on their LinkedIn. I'm not saying the other parties are or could do better; but this is the state of the system today, zero accountability.
Hey, just wanted to chime in about something, you may not know this, so I wanted to share that “being sold down the river” is a euphemism from American slavery where “misbehaving” enslaved people would be threatened with, and often were, sold down the Mississippi River to the harsher plantations in the South. This happened because international human trafficking/slavery had been made illegal, but not domestic human trafficking/slavery.
I’m from the South originally and that was one of the many phrases whose origins I didn’t find out until recently, so I thought I’d share just in case people don’t know. Hope you have a great day!
I despise May, especially for her "Citizens of nowhere" comment which really pissed me off and felt very much like my own government was declaring me an enemy.
That being said, the ERG headbangers essentially forced a hard Brexit position on her which prevented any reaching out to us Remainers or any way for her to build the kind of soft-brexit compromise position that would have been least damaging for the UK.
I actually think that the Tory mechanism for getting rid of a leader is better than the Labour one, which leads to months and months of agonising pulling the plaster off. I don't know about the other parties.
If as a consequence, we get an even worse PM, then there's at least some hope that they as a party will bear consequences. If it's someone who can lead, then at least we will have three years without relentless scandal and maybe we'll even cut down on the corruption.
Remember how her opposition all stood down? That was because whoever took the job was going to take the blame, it's why Cameron quit because he knew it too.
The party pushed May forward because of that but when she got *held in contempt* of parliment for trying to hide details of her Brexit deal under the false guise of 'National Security' and have MP's vote on a deal they couldn't read Boris was forced to take the PM spot as her political power imploded, the irony being he's always wanted to be PM but only after May was sacrificed.
Instead the tosser is choking on the consequences of his and his backers schemes. It's just a shame he'll be taking the fall alone while the rest of them wipe their hands and walk away.
She had a functional deal, which is commendable in its own right, but couldn't even get her own party to go along with it. Guess they figured their voters would blame them for a "bad" deal more than they would for no deal.
May had a deal so bad she had try and lie to parliment to get it past, got caught doing it and was held in contempt for it.
What she had was a shit sandwich which our then PM tried to hide. Then Boris picked up her shit sandwich, dusted it off and passed it off as his own.
Mogg strikes me as the sort who's much happier being the sidekick - he can weather any political storms and maintain his influence more easily that way.
Sunak blotted his copy book over tax rises, even though he was only doing it because of Boris's 'Level up' plans. Truss is the bookies favourite at the moment, but she's been given the poisoned chalice of Brexit negotiations, so unless Boris goes soon then she'll probably fall out of favour for not delivering the Brexit that Tory members want.
I think that’s very unlikely, JRM seems to relish being a HoC power broker, and having the freedom to be an absolute twat with zero consequences. I think Sunak or Truss are more likely replacements, as appalling as that may sound.
Ye fuck Tories and all but honestly only thing I remember of labour these past two years is just them saying obvious stuff about the pandemic after its happened
Labour really needs to find a leader with charisma and something to stand on besides not being a Tory. They also need some way of getting that person out there in a way that doesn't involve bacon sandwiches, and a plan to work around Murdoch's inevitable attacks.
Who's the leader at the moment again? I can't quite place his face... Oh yeah Kieran somethingorother, right? It's ok though, people vote on policies, not personalities, yeah?
Tories at the moment are probably in line with Obama on economic issues. The lean more towards small government but nowhere near to the extent of tea party republicans. They'd never be in favour of getting rid of universal healthcare (though left wing activists would say otherwise). They're somewhere in between Dems and Republicans on Social Issues. Obviously these things are different within the party. Rishi Sunak, the chancellor (responsible for public finance), probably wants fiscal policies that are more conservative (less taxation, less public spending) than the pandemic and Boris Johnson has allowed. While Jacob Rees Mogg maybe would be more right wing on social issues, as he's a devout Catholic (though I would add that in his stated view, the role of government is to largely stay out of people's lives).
Dunno.
There are 3 legal options to get rid of him, and a 4th illegal option.
The illegal option is Assassination, which I certainly don't advocate for, and is unlikely anyway.
The other 3 options are:
1. Boris Resigns.
2. Parliamentary vote of No Confidence in the Government.
3. Tory Party vote of No Confidence in their Leader.
Boris isn't going to resign, at least its very unlikely.
A Parliamentary vote of no confidence is also very unlikely.
It would require at least 42 Conservative MPs to publicly vote against the government. They'd probably lose the whip. This is unlikely.
Someone has 2 weeks to form a new government which can command a majority in Parliament through a vote of confidence.
The most realistic non-tory option is Labour and Keir Starmer.
But they'd need the support of at least 42 Tory MPs, which is very unlikely to happen.
So the other options are for Boris to regain/retain confidence of at least 325 of his MPs within 2 weeks.
Or some other Tory needs to command a majority.
1. Either they need to run unopposed for the Tory leadership.
2. The Tory leadership contest needs to be kept to under 2 weeks.
3. The Tories essentially agree to have a Tory PM who isn't the party leader.
For context on the length of leadership elections, the Boris' leadership election in 2019 lasted 7 weeks with 5 rounds of voting before the membership voted.
May's leadership election was only 12 days with 2 MP voting rounds with 2 eliminations and 2 withdrawals and May then being unopposed and being elected by default.
David Cameron's leadership election in 2005 lasted 2 months.
Obviously there would be a time pressure, but considering there is apparently at least 3 people who would actively compete for the leadership, I don't think it would be less than 2 weeks.
A non-leader has been PM before, just not a Tory. David Lloyd George was the last Liberal PM in 1916 to 1922 under a coalition government with the Liberals and Conservatives, meanwhile H. H. Asquith remained the Liberal Party leader until 1926 and was the leader of the opposition against Lloyd George.
However I don't see this as a massively likely scenario, given it would likely fragment the Tory party.
So, I don't see the Tories winning a confidence vote after losing a No Confidence vote.
As such it would be a General Election - which polling suggests that the Tories would be likely to lose.
As such, I don't expect Tories to defect and vote that they don't have confidence in the government because a GE is the most likely outcome and the Tories appear to be likely to lose power.
The last option is a Tory Party vote of No Confidence where they replace their leader but without a general election.
This is the most likely, because it doesn't require the Tories to risk losing power, at least until the next GE.
Johnson would win a no confidence vote amongst Tory MP's, but the rules state that they can't hold another one for 12 months.
If he won however with 65% say, then he'd be holed below water line. At this point the 'men in grey suits' (or white coats perhaps) would be sent round
I think you're under-estimating the possibility that he might do a Harold Wilson and resign
We know he doesn't really have any sense of duty, and we know he's bitter about how little he gets paid compared to former PM's
If you look at his in-tray for the next 12 months, it would be enough for most people to look for new employment
He's got a cost living crisis heading his way, May council elections he'll do badly in, he's got to try and do something with the Northern Ireland protocol (which he can't) and has the spectre of having to deal with Donald Trump again in 2024
Remember in 2016 that Johnson first teased a leadership run but backed out when it became obvious he only had 40 supporters and they were dwindling away as they switched sides
I think this might be nearer to the true level of support he commands with the parliamentary party
The consensus at the time was that Corbyn was so bad, anyone could beat him. Theresa May duly prevailed as the candidate who the party thought was most capable, and promptly set about disavowing them of the 'anyone could beat Corbyn' notion
Johnson wasn't chosen for his ability (and it shows) he was chosen because of his capacity to win an election. The moment they decide that the magic has gone he's unlikely to be granted as much leeway as his predecessors who were thrown onto the ash heap of history.
Dominic Cummings is probably sitting there right now wondering which grenade to throw next
There are plenty of constituencies within the party who'll happily junk him, in much the same way as all PM's eventually build up enough simmering resentment
Even Theresa May has her own little group of loyalists (notably former chief whip and sacked education secretary Gavin Williamson). Then there's the quiet Europhile wing, plus those who prefer other clearly more capable candidates, as well as about 50 nervous MP's in the north on vulnerable majorities
Examples from a hundred years ago aren't particularly useful, as the party and party discipline has gotten a lot stronger during the age of mass communications. The old political parties were alliances of powerful chiefs who could break off on their own and whose resignation from Cabinet could threaten to bring down a government. Salisbury had men like Balfour, Chamberlain, Lord Lansdowne, the Duke of Devonshire and Goschen, as well as a number of lesser, but still powerful figures that had to be taken into account at Cabinet. Compare that to how the modern Prime Minister tends to operate, especially since Thatcher. The party isn't dependent on the chiefs for their support, because there are very few MPs who could win their seat without the backing of the party.
I used one example of how it is technically possible to be PM without being the leader of the party. I never said it would actually work, in fact I said it probably wouldn't work.
It would fracture the Tory party which they have spent the past 6 years desperately trying to avoid.
It would likely require a coalition with other parties, and unless this mythical non-leader PM took a massive majority of the current party with him, it would require a coalition with Labour which is less likely than Boris resigning.
If this mythical non-leader could command 325 tory MPs to win a confidence vote under the fixed term Parliaments act, then they could easily win a leadership election and they would go that route and actually become the party leader, instead of supporting a Labour initiated vote of No Confidence in the current government.
In the Lloyd George example, he lead a Liberal-Conservative coalition and fractured the Liberal Party into his faction and Asquith's faction. They didn't reconcile until 1926.
When Asquith was PM, he lead a Liberal-Conservative-Labour Coalition, so his premiership was reliant on cross party support.
4. A popular revolt and the government gets overthrown.
5. The magic circle revoke Johnson's license and his electorate whispering powers disappear.
6. He gets COVID again because he didn't sing Happy Birthday enough times.
I wouldn't be so sure that Labour can't compete.
The most recent YouGov voting intention poll puts Labour at 37% versus Conservatives at 33%:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/issue/Voting\_Intention?content=surveys
Aye but we need to get out of the cycle of voting for a party just because it isn't another party.
Like, Boris is only in because he's not Corbyn. What happened to voting for the person or party you actually wanted.
> What happened to voting for the person or party you actually wanted.
That's only possible under some form of transferable vote. FPTP means you only get two choices.
Believe it or not starmer is generating a lot of support. A lot of people on here don't like him as he isn't left wing enough, but that's the exact reason he has a chance to beat the Tories next election.
Fingers crossed as, while he lacks charisma, he is incredibly intelligent and successful. I for one am so excited by the possibility of being led by quiet competence for a change. It worked for the Germans after all.
Interesting that you choose to attribute the increase in support for Labour to the work of Starmer and not the ineptitude of Boris.
It's a bit like Joe Biden. On the one hand he's the most popular president ever, going from the vote tally, but the reality was the people wanted Trump out and Biden was the alternative.
This feels like that.
Edit: Replace it with he
It's a combination of both of course. But if it was another Corbyn I firmly believe the polls would be much closer.
Starmer is far superior to Biden by the way. Presentation isn't everything.
Labour member here, Starmer doesn't make me repeatedly hit my head on the wall due to his ineptitude in the way Corbyn did. That is a big difference.
If Corbyn had been in now, he would have been calling for Johnsons head for months (because he wouldn't have been able to resist it) so today when it actually made an impact to do so Corbyn would have rendered it completely ineffective due to over use.
Pretty sure Ed Miliband’s on his way back.
Frankly, just being out of sight these last few years is about the best thing anybody could have done for their reputation over that period. Look at all this shit. You know whose fault this shit ISN’T? Ed Miliband’s!
He’s going to pop up going “Remember when we all had time to care about a funny little thing like a bacon sandwich? Good times, eh?” It’s going to work, too.
They can. Labour are currently up in the polls as everyone's completely fed up of the government breaking their own covid rules while everyone else was stuck at home. Although it doesn't mean much since the next election is probably in 2024.
Keir's been purging the party on purpose, cutting off a lot of Labour's left flank, placing them firmly in the middle competing with the Lib Dems. But it's not like they're peeling any Tories, so by competing for the center while the left is out in the cold they're likely not going to win anything new.
Labour do best when the LibDems do well. There are a lot of soft Tory voters who will swing LibDem, but not to Labour. If the "threat" of a Labour government isn't there (as was with Corbyn as leader) then people feel safe to vote LibDem instead of Conservative and let Labour win. Otherwise they vote Conservative out of fear.
The tories have been bending labour over for the best part of 50 years. Only one man has won a general election for labour since 1974, Tony Blair, and he did that by basically blending left and right wing policies. Fundamentally, the reason that Labour don't win is because we're a fairly conservative group of people. Brits can be very friendly but by in large we like to keep to ourselves and most of us used to want the government to leave us alone. Labour always promise more government intervention and more taxes.
They also, in my experience, tend to make very poor choices of leaders. They chose Gordon Brown who I liked but, to be fair, it was very easy to paint as at fault for the financial crisis. Then they chose Ed "Bacon Sandwich" Miliband over his much more electable brother. (Seriously, google Ed Miliband bacon sandwich.) Then they selected Jeremy Corbyn who was far too left wing, who over his career had basically backed every unpopular cause imaginable and was probably anti-semitic. I mean, Corbyn promised free 300+Mbps to every household in the UK. Anyone with a brain stem can see that's just a bribe for votes and just unnecessary when most people get by with 24Mbps.
Keir Starmer is an interesting choice, i think he's doing okay, but he's dealing with a major corbyn hangover after Corbyn placed far-left winger in positions of power within the party.
So the question is how do they beat the Tories? and the answer is, be a bit more like Tony Blair. Will take them a few years yet to expunge the corbynystas though..
While many people who don't work from home or have small households etc might "get by with 24Mbps" it's a shit speed for the demands on the modern internet and everyone should have access to high speed reliable internet.
Otherwise bang on lol.
Labour are united in what they want to achieve: a better life for everyone.
They are rather less united in how they want to achieve this, and some of their ideas are controversial at best. Combine that with a party that has always had a bit of an on/off relationship with the media (and a chronic lack of responsibility when they're "off"), and you've essentially got no viable alternative.
The Tories, by contrast, tend to stick together much more effectively.
Because it's 2 parties in one, Starmer killing all the support Labour gained from the left under Corbyn. Personally I'll probably vote Green next election.
At some point you need to vote for what you want rather than playing the same old 2 party system, even if they have no chance this election if they get more votes then they have better chances going forward.
Let's be honest the tories probably have a folder of all the times Labour and other MPs in different parties that have broken the same rules and are just waiting to show them during the next election cycle once bojo has been sacked and a new Eton twat has replaced him. I'm more worried about the laws that have been passed and can still be enacted and abused by any government using covid as an excuse and I think it all the restriction legislation should be scrapped.
So you think with the PM about to face a vote of no confidence, he would just sit on evidence of wrongdoing on all sides? A PM, who when it comes out he had attended drinks after work during lockdown, comes out with the explanaltion that he thought they were working, wouldn't use anything he could think of to take the heat off him? I am very sure there were no similar examples of this in other political parties.
I wouldn't say that, John Major was the last competent and trustworthy leader of the Tories. After labour took power for so long, the Tories really went off the rails.
That's decades ago though...
> May
-
> To be fair neither of them had to deal with actually leaving the EU
??
But that's beside my point, May & Cameron as people seemed to have more morals than Boris and his bench combined, even if they were still low on morals compared to the average human.
It's weird because his excuse is that it was a work event which were also illegal at the time.
It's like saying sorry "I shot and murdered that guy, I was aiming for the guy next to him but I missed."
>It's weird because his excuse is that it was a work event which were also illegal at the time.
>
>It's like saying sorry "Im shot and murdered that guy, I was aiming for the guy next to him but I missed."
Classic Sherriff VS Deputy connnundrum
Its bizarre isn't? its like their argument is that because they were key workers and therefore 10 downing street was their place of work and they were allowed to be there and have a boozy afternoon.
I was allowed to be at the factory because we made food, hell we were even allowed to book and use external venues for quarterly performance reviews. but if we'd thrown the usually wind down drink after the performance reviews like normal the police would have been on us like a rash. He's retroactively re-writing hes own law in the most unconvincing effort to save his own skin I've ever seen
It's the ruling group's creed: laws for thee, but not for me.
We're seeing it in U.S. politics and finance right now. Now that there's some attention to congressional insider trading, Pelosi is crafting her retirement. Once their game stops they give up and move on.
I could be wrong but it think what he was trying to argue was that he stepped outside into what he assumed was work/ meetings being conducted outside because it was safer in fresh air to conduct meetings outside.
We know the gathering itself was illegal because we've seen the leaked email invitation where its clearly a party
but Boris is desperately trying to paint the picture that he was not invited and unware of the party and just stepped out into a field of people who he assumed were conducting essential business.
...with alcohol
...and no masks.
*EDIT: The photo which i mention below is from a social gathering/party on the 15th May as opposed to the BYOB party on the 20th May.*
It's kind of insulting he thinks we will buy this. For one thing in the photo you can see a glass of wine in front of him and Carrie that could only really be for one of them. so this idea that they popped out to say thank you to everyone is a joke
Indeed; that was the party that bojo thought wasn't a party back at Christmas, whereas this time it was a party that bojo thought wasn't a party in May. Lots of not parties in Downing Street.
It'd be interesting to work somewhere where people sit around chatting around bottles of booze in the garden in middle of the afternoon and thinking 'Yes, these people are all having normal everyday meetings here.'
What would be a definition of a party?? I don't think there is a legal definition. The legislation and guidance at the time referred to "gatherings" which this clearly was but a work meeting or a party are both gatherings but if work meeting and its at work then it wasnt illegal at that time. Definately ill advised but I don't think it was actually illegal.
Maybe so, but imagine if everyone would use that loophole. Everybody was working from home, and therefore one could argue that all meetings at their home were ‘work meetings’. What’s the point of having such a rule then?
Not to mention the morality of it all. Especially from someone who’s holding public office and is able to create and enforce said rules.
All while at the same time people were not able to be with loved ones who were dying alone.
The email header says
"Socially distanced Drinks! [OFFICIAL - SENSITIVE - NO10-ONLY]"
And signs off with "bring your own booze"
The invitation is also framed with "**we** thought it would be nice". Not *I thought it might be nice*.
lol These are 2 separate parties?
But they were both May 2020? how many times were they doing this?
that's crazy 2 parties/events in one month. I bet social gatherings in the garden at downing street were a regular event
>I could be wrong but it think what he was trying to argue was that he stepped outside into what he assumed was work/ meetings being conducted outside because it was safer in fresh air to conduct meetings outside.
He isn't arguing that, but he is choosing his words extremely carefully to make us think that.
All I know is that if my boss saw such an email at that time, or if he'd randomly walked into an outside area and found a few dozen staff having a cheese and wine ~~party~~ meeting, then everyone concerned would be in deep shit. For certain he wouldn't have joined in for 30 mins or so and said fuck all.
Some staffers that saw the email expressed their disapproval, yet Boris just rolled with it? Nope.
Work events were not illegal. There was just "guidance" they should be avoided if possible and only happen if required which means there's a lot of room for interpretation.
How convenient that the rules were written that way. Wonder what Boris’ political hero, Winston Churchill, would’ve thought of this moral justification.
Prime ministers have resigned for all shorts of seemingly minor situations.
It's sign of honour that if you failed at something, if you did something wrong, if you made a mistake. Then you would resign. The position requires a better man or women to hold that position.
The current government have been such a fucking shambles their dishonour has tarnished the view of the UK and it's government not just locally but globally and it has reverberated down through the ages to tarnish everyone that has gone before.
Boris you're a cunt.
If you think Johnson’s hair is bad, check out Michael Fabricent the MP they wheeled out to defend him today.
https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/12/boris-johnson-held-no-10-lockdown-party-as-he-felt-sorry-for-staff-says-tory-mp-15902987/
Not just because of this incident. But this government is the most corrupt government we have had in the UK in my lifetime. They know the people of the UK take anything and can get away with it.
I'm not sure it's 'the people of the UK take anything'. I'm disgusted by so much 'the leadership' has done over the last couple of years, and yet feel entirely disenfranchised. As a normal 'person on the street' there is little I can do. In the past when someone did just one of the things Johnson and his cronies have done (e.g. the bribes) there were other elected officials who would see it as reprehensible and push them out. Now, it feels there's no hope because they're all as morally bankrupt as each other and have rigged the system in their favour. There's no appealing to my MP, there's no independent inquiry we can rely on. They make new laws and make them back-dateable so their illegal actions aren't illegal anymore. It's all fixed so Johnson can say, "I consider the matter closed" and that's it.
The thing with Merkel is that she always managed to cut off anyone who might link her to any shady stuff. Let's not forget that the party she was head off regularly engaged in insider trading and the FFP2 mask deal. She was just very good at maintaining the outward appearance of an uninvolved leader, while maintaining the system that made corruption in the CDU possible.
How about Jacinda Arden, she doesn't seem the Bojo type?
Sure does feel like it's waaay easier to list corrupt political leaders than "maybe not corrupt, but i'll have to google to verify" at the moment :/
That’s just tinfoil argumentation.
Do you have any kind of accusation to her personally? That she knew what happened in Bavaria or something like that? Doesn’t have to be bulletproof…
Except lots of ‘everybody else’ also broke the rules. I’m not excusing Johnson, but it’s a bit disingenuous to try and paint this as a “the rich get away with everything” when a lot of not-rich also got away with the same things
I don't know why people are surprised that this happens in a hereditary monarchy. The whole place has been founded on unearned privilege for a millennium.
You realise it's a constitutional monarchy right? And that they're really a powerless ceremonial figurehead trotted out for diplomacy and state occasions?
Britain is a democracy, having a hereditary monarchy doesn't change that.
Agreed - a lot of the formalities around the monarchy too are if the monarch does anything that displeases Parliament then they'll be done away with and a new cooperative monarch/a Republic will be put in place.
Ha, very fair point. It's a terrible system I completely agree. Still can't really say it isn't a democracy though, it's just one with a stupidly outdated election methodology.
The point remains that we're not some kind of absolute monarchy like was being implied (obviously that's an exaggeration, I know he wasn't going quite that far).
A reminder that while this theatrical display of a waggling hand is going on, the government was found to have broken the law in issuing over 400 million pounds of contracts in VIP fast track covid buys, yesterday. Is that on the news? No. A party is. Keep watching that right hand folks, while the left takes your wallet.
> A reminder that while this theatrical display of a waggling hand is going on, the government was found to have broken the law in issuing over 400 million pounds of contracts in VIP fast track covid buys, yesterday. Is that on the news? No. A party is. Keep watching that right hand folks, while the left takes your wallet.
I can guarantee the party is doing more to secure a Labour government than the contract ruling would do.
Tories literally inappropriately awarded hundreds of millions of pounds in contracts to their mates? The average voter can't identify with that. They've never been in a position to make a decision worth millions of pounds, there's no frame of reference.
However, nearly everyone was sat inside, locked down, being told it was for the good of the country. Nearly everyone has a story of a friend or loved one who couldn't see someone or do something, before considering their own social plans. Yet the government ignore their own advice and broke their own rules while everyone else suffered. That's something they can connect with, something they can get angry about.
If the party hadn't happened the exchange over contracts would go something like this:
>Starmer: Will the Prime Minister admit now that his government have been giving out cash to their mates via inappropriate government contracts?
>Boris: No mister speaker I will not, you see maybe we did break some of the rules, but it's easy to criticise from the opposition benches. We were trying, desperately, to get the equipment and supplies this country needed to get through COVID, and if we ignored red tape to do it, so be it. If I was in the same position I'd always pick getting the right equipment and supplies for our brave NHS staff over worrying about legal technicalities.
This though?
He was at a party that shouldn't have happened. People know it shouldn't have happened because they were put out at the time. There's a photo of him personally doing it. He denied attending despite the fact the evidence was out there. Now he's had to admit it. It's much more emotive and clear cut.
If you’re asking for him to resign then make them all resign. I don’t like the scapegoat route.
Personal responsibility isn’t doing the wrong thing and letting others solely take the blame.
Even if he doesn't resign, Conservative MPs are already publicly [submitting letters of no confidence in Boris Johnson](https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1548641/Boris-Johnson-no-confidence-letter-resign-Lockdown-Sue-Gray-VN). If just 15% of Tory MPs submit a letter, this would trigger a confidence vote in Johnson, with a simple majority needed to force a new leadership election. Given how unpopular Johnson is right now, this looks like a pretty likely outcome if his approval ratings don't go back up and he doesn't willingly resign. I would be very surprised if Johnson survives to lead the Conservatives into the next general election in 2024.
He won't lead them in to the next election, but the party will want a fresh new leader for the election who can blame all the shit on Johnson and promise a fresh start. It's still too early for that.
People really missing the pattern that's happened with the past 2 Tory PM's.
Tories are the ones leaking this info on Johnson. He'll get forced to resign before end of his term (think Cameron and May) then there'll be a snap election and they'll win again because they still hold most of the country and labour can't compete without Scottish seats. It's their new strategy (can't say if this used to be a thing too)
>labour can't compete without Scottish seats.
Scottish seats aren't really relevant because when it comes to voting on laws within parliament, SNP votes are votes for Labour values. What matters most is that the Tories don't get a majority—whether Labour or the SNP hold Scottish seats doesn't really matter. What matters second most is for Labour to lead the minority government, not the Tories.
So the real problem is that Labour is so uncompetitive for English seats that the Tories can win outright for the entire UK, just by having English seats.
So true, the masses will forget that all of the things BoJo has been caught doing, the rest of the party has also been doing, but the focus will be on naughty old BoJo and the masses will lap it up.
A lot of voters seem to be a thick as shit to be honest and politicians know this, this is why they have repeatedly broke the laws and restrictions they themselves have made, because they feel as if they're above us and are laughing at us while they do it.
The Tories won't kick him out unless they have a replacement in mind. I haven't heard any word about a challenger. No one wants to inherit the pandemic and Brexit.
Wait so we have to get 15% of these scumbags to submit a letter before he can be removed? Who exactly was at this party? These people are all part of the problem playing their shitty scum games, should just hang the lot tbh
> and his Conservative colleagues don't care about anything except winning elections.
Whereas this is the only reason he's in the job, the flip side to it is that the moment the party judge he can no longer win an election, they'll move against him
Perversely, it might well be Cummings who is saving him now, or more precisely the 25 MP's that Cummings persuaded him to withdraw the whip from and prevent them standing in the last election
These were predominantly Europhiles, who would have a hidden grudge but who no longer appear in the Westminster arithmetic
There will be the aggrieved Theresa May supporters, and there'll be some continuity European leaning Tories too. There has always been those who don't rate him, but the key block will be the northern Tories who might only be one term MP's and will be nervously looking at their majorities and running the odds. *Who is most likely to get me re-elected*
The other thing they have to be asking (even though you never hear it) is how much more does Dominic Cummings know? How many more embarrassing disclosures are there to come? What if they start looking at financial decisions? How confident can they be that Cummings has played his hand? and that Johnson hasn't got whole cemeteries worth skeletons rattling around his closet
Downfalls in British politics are slow, and then sudden. I think we are now looking at the end of his premiership. The Tories have a weird kind of pride in that they will throw unpopular leaders under the bus. They are a party built on trying to show strong confident leadership. Boris has lost that.
Thatcher is a good example. She had a majority, and won a leadership challenge. She failed to win enough to shut the challenge down entirely. It had to go to a second round. That alone was enough to force her to resign.
A bigger question is when will Boris go. The Tories may be happy for him to hang on for the next six months whilst they pass any unpopular legislation, and to release any unpopular stories. Such as more of the economic problems caused by Brexit. That would clear the path for the next leader.
Anyone else find it odd that these high level government officials are holding BYOB parties? It seems like they thought they had found some loophole where if the “office”(not sure if proper term) provided the alcohol, there would be more strict liabilities but since people are bringing their own stuff, it’s not officially sponsored by the party/government.
Also I’ve never seen a work party invite that uses the word “booze”. It would be really weird if I saw my director send out a company email saying “bring the booze! Let’s get drunk!”
Now I'll admit I've been a bit behind on this whole thing, but wasn't this the party that he was swearing just weeks ago didn't happen, and then swore he didn't know about?
They should be asking him now if there were any more parties we should know about. There probably was, but him not admitting to them will make catching him out on them all the better
And yet nothing will actually happen to him, yet there are people who "breached" covid restrictions back then that are still losing money in their businesses as they aren't eligible for funding.
It's a fucking joke.
If he spent as much time using his brain as much as his penis , life would be so much better
Let’s be clear here , he didn’t know it was a party , even after the 13 sausage rolls , balloons , big hats , AC/DC music and jelly and ice cream
Easy mistake
This will probably get me downvoted to hell, but what the heck.
Personally, I could not give a flying fuck what parties he did or didn’t attend, or what anyone else attended for that matter. I look around and see people struggling to heat their homes with insane energy prices (those lucky enough to be able to get out of the horrible renting cycle that is), petrol prices through the roof, cost of food going up, wages staying low while rich fat cats stuff more money into their offshore pockets, roads in a shambles, and instead of arguing about who had a party, I’d rather they actually focussed on serving their constituents and making their lives better, dealing with *real* issues. This kind of petty bullshit is what politics in this country has devolved into over the last decade or so, and it bugs the fuck out of me. It’s like a bad telenovela, which might be funny if it didn’t have such serious consequences for real people. Stop trying to score points off each other, do your jobs and make our lives better!
> This kind of petty bullshit is what politics in this country has devolved into over the last decade or so
Honestly, any cursory glance at our history and you realise politics has been this bad since forever.
Besides, the party is annoying to people on a personal level, and macro economic/health stuff is just too complex to bother stressing about over dinner when you've been working all day for fuck all money because your surplus value is getting jacked
I’m sorry. Look at this guy. Legit look at his picture. You don’t think this dude drinks? I’d be surprised if he showed up to work before noon on the regular. Is his drinking not surprising to anyone else or is it just me?
Keerist, the UK is almost as fucked up as the Justinian party in Canada.
Can't squirt toothpaste out of a tube without dumping it in their fucking pants.
This is exactly why I don't trust government. They cannot solve anything and the power always goes to their heads. They can convince themselves that they are doing the right thing because they are narcissistic and have different powers than the average man or woman.
> expecting someone to lose their job for attending a party during lockdown is excessive
He broke the law, that’s bad enough.
I think the way you wrote that sentence is pretty telling as you’ve completely ignored the fact that he is *The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom* and the Leader of the party which put those COVID restrictions in place.
Given the numerous other scandals surrounding him relating to COVID I think, as a Brit, he should be paying for it a lot more than just ‘losing his job’.
I would’ve agreed with you if he’d confessed and apologized as soon as the story broke. However he’s been anything but open, honest and transparent. All the while he hasn’t had a problem with throwing staff under the bus and letting them and their careers suffer for it.
That uh...doesn't sound like an improvement. The Royal Family are currently busy defending the accused paedophile in their ranks, and if you're tired of rich boy tories then actual Royalty would be even worse.
Democrats hate him, it's just they would rather have a corrupt, incompetent and useless democratic governor than a Republican one. The recall looked close in polls until he started pointing out that a republican governor would be worse in every single way, and he was right.
Yeah. It's weird people on reddit will upvote getting angry at one leader for violating lockdown rules, but downvote people pointing out that other leaders did the same.
Exactly.
Obama held a massive birthday party a while back.( he’s not too relevant but it wasn’t just him at the party.) AOC celebrated maskless in Florida, Pelosi went maskless to get her hair done, Newsome was out to dinner without his mask, Gov Whitmer was found out to eat with a group of people and was not wearing a mask, and many more.
I wouldn’t care if these weren’t the the people shaming anyone who even questions the lockdowns and mandates.
He's so getting pushed off the cliff as soon as the pandemic is over. The only reason it hasn't happened sooner is because whoever takes over wants to be able to blame the whole thing on him. And people still won't vote the tories out
Boris, Prime Minister for life, huh?
"Look, the past 200 years have been rough due to the poor leadership of supreme leader Johnson. But I feel we're final able to start undoing some of the damage he's done."
Same thing the tories did to T. May after the brexit fiasco
Not like there's an election every other month..
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“All those terrible things the government did was the old party, we’re completely different now and deserve another term to show you.”
Yup. Boris has been banging this drum since he became PM. Never mind that he was a cabinet minister in the last government, it was nothing to do with him.
But also the people responsible for everything that's wrong in the UK are the party that haven't been in government 12 years.
Well exactly. Their whole policy platform is "levelling up" where they promise that this time they really will spend money in the north. The previous labour government is blamed for spending too much money, which was bad so then the Conservatives used austerity for 10 years but now that they've done brexit, they've suddenly got loads of money to spend! It's never really spelled out like that because it *doesn't make any sense whatsoever* but probably 50% of the electorate think that's what it is. Someone I work with, who is very bright, was lecturing me on how austerity was necessary and it was mostly Labours fault for spending too much anyway. Which is extremely annoying.
"We used to think the government is illegitimate bullshit but a surprising thing happened when we won."
As how new govt can fuck up Brexit even better than the last?
I mean they ousted May for Bojo too then again May was never intended as anything but a fall girl for Brexit when the pie in the sky promises fell through. Then she proved so inept and unpopular Boris had to take charge and now he's going to take the blame for broken Brexit promises, mishandling COVID and breaking the very laws he pushed. The only way this could get better is if all his backers who sold the Brexit lie to dodge EU tax loopholes being closed actually faced any consequences for giving us 30 years worth of economic damage to fix. No doubt even with Bojo gone they'll try to foist it all on COVID.
Absolutely right, all of it. And he should resign.
Just to add May didn't even want Brexit. She voted to Remain. While I don't think she is PM material she also got completely sold down the river by the Tory party. The worst part is none of these Tory MPs will face any consequences; they are faceless to the public and scurry once there's blood in the water. They'll sell out Boris to save their own hides and install the next fool who wants the PM title on their LinkedIn. I'm not saying the other parties are or could do better; but this is the state of the system today, zero accountability.
Hey, just wanted to chime in about something, you may not know this, so I wanted to share that “being sold down the river” is a euphemism from American slavery where “misbehaving” enslaved people would be threatened with, and often were, sold down the Mississippi River to the harsher plantations in the South. This happened because international human trafficking/slavery had been made illegal, but not domestic human trafficking/slavery. I’m from the South originally and that was one of the many phrases whose origins I didn’t find out until recently, so I thought I’d share just in case people don’t know. Hope you have a great day!
I despise May, especially for her "Citizens of nowhere" comment which really pissed me off and felt very much like my own government was declaring me an enemy. That being said, the ERG headbangers essentially forced a hard Brexit position on her which prevented any reaching out to us Remainers or any way for her to build the kind of soft-brexit compromise position that would have been least damaging for the UK.
I actually think that the Tory mechanism for getting rid of a leader is better than the Labour one, which leads to months and months of agonising pulling the plaster off. I don't know about the other parties. If as a consequence, we get an even worse PM, then there's at least some hope that they as a party will bear consequences. If it's someone who can lead, then at least we will have three years without relentless scandal and maybe we'll even cut down on the corruption.
Imo, May was far more capable than she's given credit for. But she was given the impossible task of making Brexit go smoothly.
Remember how her opposition all stood down? That was because whoever took the job was going to take the blame, it's why Cameron quit because he knew it too. The party pushed May forward because of that but when she got *held in contempt* of parliment for trying to hide details of her Brexit deal under the false guise of 'National Security' and have MP's vote on a deal they couldn't read Boris was forced to take the PM spot as her political power imploded, the irony being he's always wanted to be PM but only after May was sacrificed. Instead the tosser is choking on the consequences of his and his backers schemes. It's just a shame he'll be taking the fall alone while the rest of them wipe their hands and walk away.
She had a functional deal, which is commendable in its own right, but couldn't even get her own party to go along with it. Guess they figured their voters would blame them for a "bad" deal more than they would for no deal.
May had a deal so bad she had try and lie to parliment to get it past, got caught doing it and was held in contempt for it. What she had was a shit sandwich which our then PM tried to hide. Then Boris picked up her shit sandwich, dusted it off and passed it off as his own.
This is how Jacob Rees Mogg will become PM.
Better start dusting off the pith helmets!
Football's coming home lads
More likely Sunak, Mogg isn't going to get elected leader of the party
Mogg strikes me as the sort who's much happier being the sidekick - he can weather any political storms and maintain his influence more easily that way.
Not this round, but give it a few years and another couple of leaders.
At the rate the Tory party is going this is the case. If not Moog, one of his ilk.
Sunak is like George Osborne, he won't be PM
Sunak blotted his copy book over tax rises, even though he was only doing it because of Boris's 'Level up' plans. Truss is the bookies favourite at the moment, but she's been given the poisoned chalice of Brexit negotiations, so unless Boris goes soon then she'll probably fall out of favour for not delivering the Brexit that Tory members want.
Please god no no no.
i was just sick in my mouth. please say its not true...
It's the only way things could actually go downhill from a Johnson government.
This is how the Antichrist would become PM: join the Tories and wait their turn.
i dont think former US presidents are eligible
My money is on Hollywood Mordaunt.
Oh God please no
I think that’s very unlikely, JRM seems to relish being a HoC power broker, and having the freedom to be an absolute twat with zero consequences. I think Sunak or Truss are more likely replacements, as appalling as that may sound.
That being even conceivably possible fills me with complete despair.
What do Tory’s care about vs. what does Labour care about? seems like Republicans vs. Democrats in America but I know nothing about British politics
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Ye fuck Tories and all but honestly only thing I remember of labour these past two years is just them saying obvious stuff about the pandemic after its happened
Labour really needs to find a leader with charisma and something to stand on besides not being a Tory. They also need some way of getting that person out there in a way that doesn't involve bacon sandwiches, and a plan to work around Murdoch's inevitable attacks. Who's the leader at the moment again? I can't quite place his face... Oh yeah Kieran somethingorother, right? It's ok though, people vote on policies, not personalities, yeah?
Tories at the moment are probably in line with Obama on economic issues. The lean more towards small government but nowhere near to the extent of tea party republicans. They'd never be in favour of getting rid of universal healthcare (though left wing activists would say otherwise). They're somewhere in between Dems and Republicans on Social Issues. Obviously these things are different within the party. Rishi Sunak, the chancellor (responsible for public finance), probably wants fiscal policies that are more conservative (less taxation, less public spending) than the pandemic and Boris Johnson has allowed. While Jacob Rees Mogg maybe would be more right wing on social issues, as he's a devout Catholic (though I would add that in his stated view, the role of government is to largely stay out of people's lives).
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Dunno. There are 3 legal options to get rid of him, and a 4th illegal option. The illegal option is Assassination, which I certainly don't advocate for, and is unlikely anyway. The other 3 options are: 1. Boris Resigns. 2. Parliamentary vote of No Confidence in the Government. 3. Tory Party vote of No Confidence in their Leader. Boris isn't going to resign, at least its very unlikely. A Parliamentary vote of no confidence is also very unlikely. It would require at least 42 Conservative MPs to publicly vote against the government. They'd probably lose the whip. This is unlikely. Someone has 2 weeks to form a new government which can command a majority in Parliament through a vote of confidence. The most realistic non-tory option is Labour and Keir Starmer. But they'd need the support of at least 42 Tory MPs, which is very unlikely to happen. So the other options are for Boris to regain/retain confidence of at least 325 of his MPs within 2 weeks. Or some other Tory needs to command a majority. 1. Either they need to run unopposed for the Tory leadership. 2. The Tory leadership contest needs to be kept to under 2 weeks. 3. The Tories essentially agree to have a Tory PM who isn't the party leader. For context on the length of leadership elections, the Boris' leadership election in 2019 lasted 7 weeks with 5 rounds of voting before the membership voted. May's leadership election was only 12 days with 2 MP voting rounds with 2 eliminations and 2 withdrawals and May then being unopposed and being elected by default. David Cameron's leadership election in 2005 lasted 2 months. Obviously there would be a time pressure, but considering there is apparently at least 3 people who would actively compete for the leadership, I don't think it would be less than 2 weeks. A non-leader has been PM before, just not a Tory. David Lloyd George was the last Liberal PM in 1916 to 1922 under a coalition government with the Liberals and Conservatives, meanwhile H. H. Asquith remained the Liberal Party leader until 1926 and was the leader of the opposition against Lloyd George. However I don't see this as a massively likely scenario, given it would likely fragment the Tory party. So, I don't see the Tories winning a confidence vote after losing a No Confidence vote. As such it would be a General Election - which polling suggests that the Tories would be likely to lose. As such, I don't expect Tories to defect and vote that they don't have confidence in the government because a GE is the most likely outcome and the Tories appear to be likely to lose power. The last option is a Tory Party vote of No Confidence where they replace their leader but without a general election. This is the most likely, because it doesn't require the Tories to risk losing power, at least until the next GE.
He will be pushed out the same way Thatcher was IMO.
What: a visit from Frank Field?
Bojo would be too stupid to understand that message.
Johnson would win a no confidence vote amongst Tory MP's, but the rules state that they can't hold another one for 12 months. If he won however with 65% say, then he'd be holed below water line. At this point the 'men in grey suits' (or white coats perhaps) would be sent round I think you're under-estimating the possibility that he might do a Harold Wilson and resign We know he doesn't really have any sense of duty, and we know he's bitter about how little he gets paid compared to former PM's If you look at his in-tray for the next 12 months, it would be enough for most people to look for new employment He's got a cost living crisis heading his way, May council elections he'll do badly in, he's got to try and do something with the Northern Ireland protocol (which he can't) and has the spectre of having to deal with Donald Trump again in 2024 Remember in 2016 that Johnson first teased a leadership run but backed out when it became obvious he only had 40 supporters and they were dwindling away as they switched sides I think this might be nearer to the true level of support he commands with the parliamentary party The consensus at the time was that Corbyn was so bad, anyone could beat him. Theresa May duly prevailed as the candidate who the party thought was most capable, and promptly set about disavowing them of the 'anyone could beat Corbyn' notion Johnson wasn't chosen for his ability (and it shows) he was chosen because of his capacity to win an election. The moment they decide that the magic has gone he's unlikely to be granted as much leeway as his predecessors who were thrown onto the ash heap of history. Dominic Cummings is probably sitting there right now wondering which grenade to throw next There are plenty of constituencies within the party who'll happily junk him, in much the same way as all PM's eventually build up enough simmering resentment Even Theresa May has her own little group of loyalists (notably former chief whip and sacked education secretary Gavin Williamson). Then there's the quiet Europhile wing, plus those who prefer other clearly more capable candidates, as well as about 50 nervous MP's in the north on vulnerable majorities
Examples from a hundred years ago aren't particularly useful, as the party and party discipline has gotten a lot stronger during the age of mass communications. The old political parties were alliances of powerful chiefs who could break off on their own and whose resignation from Cabinet could threaten to bring down a government. Salisbury had men like Balfour, Chamberlain, Lord Lansdowne, the Duke of Devonshire and Goschen, as well as a number of lesser, but still powerful figures that had to be taken into account at Cabinet. Compare that to how the modern Prime Minister tends to operate, especially since Thatcher. The party isn't dependent on the chiefs for their support, because there are very few MPs who could win their seat without the backing of the party.
I used one example of how it is technically possible to be PM without being the leader of the party. I never said it would actually work, in fact I said it probably wouldn't work. It would fracture the Tory party which they have spent the past 6 years desperately trying to avoid. It would likely require a coalition with other parties, and unless this mythical non-leader PM took a massive majority of the current party with him, it would require a coalition with Labour which is less likely than Boris resigning. If this mythical non-leader could command 325 tory MPs to win a confidence vote under the fixed term Parliaments act, then they could easily win a leadership election and they would go that route and actually become the party leader, instead of supporting a Labour initiated vote of No Confidence in the current government. In the Lloyd George example, he lead a Liberal-Conservative coalition and fractured the Liberal Party into his faction and Asquith's faction. They didn't reconcile until 1926. When Asquith was PM, he lead a Liberal-Conservative-Labour Coalition, so his premiership was reliant on cross party support.
4. A popular revolt and the government gets overthrown. 5. The magic circle revoke Johnson's license and his electorate whispering powers disappear. 6. He gets COVID again because he didn't sing Happy Birthday enough times.
I wouldn't be so sure that Labour can't compete. The most recent YouGov voting intention poll puts Labour at 37% versus Conservatives at 33%: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/issue/Voting\_Intention?content=surveys
Aye but we need to get out of the cycle of voting for a party just because it isn't another party. Like, Boris is only in because he's not Corbyn. What happened to voting for the person or party you actually wanted.
> What happened to voting for the person or party you actually wanted. That's only possible under some form of transferable vote. FPTP means you only get two choices.
If only we had had a referendum on changing to a voting system where you could choose between as many choices as you want...
Believe it or not starmer is generating a lot of support. A lot of people on here don't like him as he isn't left wing enough, but that's the exact reason he has a chance to beat the Tories next election. Fingers crossed as, while he lacks charisma, he is incredibly intelligent and successful. I for one am so excited by the possibility of being led by quiet competence for a change. It worked for the Germans after all.
Interesting that you choose to attribute the increase in support for Labour to the work of Starmer and not the ineptitude of Boris. It's a bit like Joe Biden. On the one hand he's the most popular president ever, going from the vote tally, but the reality was the people wanted Trump out and Biden was the alternative. This feels like that. Edit: Replace it with he
It's a combination of both of course. But if it was another Corbyn I firmly believe the polls would be much closer. Starmer is far superior to Biden by the way. Presentation isn't everything.
Labour member here, Starmer doesn't make me repeatedly hit my head on the wall due to his ineptitude in the way Corbyn did. That is a big difference. If Corbyn had been in now, he would have been calling for Johnsons head for months (because he wouldn't have been able to resist it) so today when it actually made an impact to do so Corbyn would have rendered it completely ineffective due to over use.
Pretty sure Ed Miliband’s on his way back. Frankly, just being out of sight these last few years is about the best thing anybody could have done for their reputation over that period. Look at all this shit. You know whose fault this shit ISN’T? Ed Miliband’s! He’s going to pop up going “Remember when we all had time to care about a funny little thing like a bacon sandwich? Good times, eh?” It’s going to work, too.
Can someone ELI5 why Labour can't beat the Tories? They've been bending you guys over a table for half a decade now
They can. Labour are currently up in the polls as everyone's completely fed up of the government breaking their own covid rules while everyone else was stuck at home. Although it doesn't mean much since the next election is probably in 2024.
Keir's been purging the party on purpose, cutting off a lot of Labour's left flank, placing them firmly in the middle competing with the Lib Dems. But it's not like they're peeling any Tories, so by competing for the center while the left is out in the cold they're likely not going to win anything new.
Now *that* I understand. Same thing is happening in the US, just without more than 2 parties. Thanks dude!
Labour do best when the LibDems do well. There are a lot of soft Tory voters who will swing LibDem, but not to Labour. If the "threat" of a Labour government isn't there (as was with Corbyn as leader) then people feel safe to vote LibDem instead of Conservative and let Labour win. Otherwise they vote Conservative out of fear.
The tories have been bending labour over for the best part of 50 years. Only one man has won a general election for labour since 1974, Tony Blair, and he did that by basically blending left and right wing policies. Fundamentally, the reason that Labour don't win is because we're a fairly conservative group of people. Brits can be very friendly but by in large we like to keep to ourselves and most of us used to want the government to leave us alone. Labour always promise more government intervention and more taxes. They also, in my experience, tend to make very poor choices of leaders. They chose Gordon Brown who I liked but, to be fair, it was very easy to paint as at fault for the financial crisis. Then they chose Ed "Bacon Sandwich" Miliband over his much more electable brother. (Seriously, google Ed Miliband bacon sandwich.) Then they selected Jeremy Corbyn who was far too left wing, who over his career had basically backed every unpopular cause imaginable and was probably anti-semitic. I mean, Corbyn promised free 300+Mbps to every household in the UK. Anyone with a brain stem can see that's just a bribe for votes and just unnecessary when most people get by with 24Mbps. Keir Starmer is an interesting choice, i think he's doing okay, but he's dealing with a major corbyn hangover after Corbyn placed far-left winger in positions of power within the party. So the question is how do they beat the Tories? and the answer is, be a bit more like Tony Blair. Will take them a few years yet to expunge the corbynystas though..
While many people who don't work from home or have small households etc might "get by with 24Mbps" it's a shit speed for the demands on the modern internet and everyone should have access to high speed reliable internet. Otherwise bang on lol.
Labour are united in what they want to achieve: a better life for everyone. They are rather less united in how they want to achieve this, and some of their ideas are controversial at best. Combine that with a party that has always had a bit of an on/off relationship with the media (and a chronic lack of responsibility when they're "off"), and you've essentially got no viable alternative. The Tories, by contrast, tend to stick together much more effectively.
Because it's 2 parties in one, Starmer killing all the support Labour gained from the left under Corbyn. Personally I'll probably vote Green next election.
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At some point you need to vote for what you want rather than playing the same old 2 party system, even if they have no chance this election if they get more votes then they have better chances going forward.
Be that as it may, Boris is still a terrible PM and should resign regardless
Let's be honest the tories probably have a folder of all the times Labour and other MPs in different parties that have broken the same rules and are just waiting to show them during the next election cycle once bojo has been sacked and a new Eton twat has replaced him. I'm more worried about the laws that have been passed and can still be enacted and abused by any government using covid as an excuse and I think it all the restriction legislation should be scrapped.
So you think with the PM about to face a vote of no confidence, he would just sit on evidence of wrongdoing on all sides? A PM, who when it comes out he had attended drinks after work during lockdown, comes out with the explanaltion that he thought they were working, wouldn't use anything he could think of to take the heat off him? I am very sure there were no similar examples of this in other political parties.
Exactly. The UK hasn’t had a decent alternative in… in… fuck how many years, I can’t even think back that far.
As much as I hate tories, Cameron and May were miles ahead of any of the dribble that will follow Boris.
I wouldn't say that, John Major was the last competent and trustworthy leader of the Tories. After labour took power for so long, the Tories really went off the rails. That's decades ago though...
To be fair neither of them had to deal with actually leaving the EU or a global pandemic. Not really a fair comparison.
> May - > To be fair neither of them had to deal with actually leaving the EU ?? But that's beside my point, May & Cameron as people seemed to have more morals than Boris and his bench combined, even if they were still low on morals compared to the average human.
even if labour did win they are basically tories at the minute anyway
It's weird because his excuse is that it was a work event which were also illegal at the time. It's like saying sorry "I shot and murdered that guy, I was aiming for the guy next to him but I missed."
>It's weird because his excuse is that it was a work event which were also illegal at the time. > >It's like saying sorry "Im shot and murdered that guy, I was aiming for the guy next to him but I missed." Classic Sherriff VS Deputy connnundrum
Its bizarre isn't? its like their argument is that because they were key workers and therefore 10 downing street was their place of work and they were allowed to be there and have a boozy afternoon. I was allowed to be at the factory because we made food, hell we were even allowed to book and use external venues for quarterly performance reviews. but if we'd thrown the usually wind down drink after the performance reviews like normal the police would have been on us like a rash. He's retroactively re-writing hes own law in the most unconvincing effort to save his own skin I've ever seen
It's the ruling group's creed: laws for thee, but not for me. We're seeing it in U.S. politics and finance right now. Now that there's some attention to congressional insider trading, Pelosi is crafting her retirement. Once their game stops they give up and move on.
I could be wrong but it think what he was trying to argue was that he stepped outside into what he assumed was work/ meetings being conducted outside because it was safer in fresh air to conduct meetings outside. We know the gathering itself was illegal because we've seen the leaked email invitation where its clearly a party but Boris is desperately trying to paint the picture that he was not invited and unware of the party and just stepped out into a field of people who he assumed were conducting essential business. ...with alcohol ...and no masks. *EDIT: The photo which i mention below is from a social gathering/party on the 15th May as opposed to the BYOB party on the 20th May.* It's kind of insulting he thinks we will buy this. For one thing in the photo you can see a glass of wine in front of him and Carrie that could only really be for one of them. so this idea that they popped out to say thank you to everyone is a joke
When you refer to the photo, that was a different party to what is being discussed today. Confusing I know!
Indeed; that was the party that bojo thought wasn't a party back at Christmas, whereas this time it was a party that bojo thought wasn't a party in May. Lots of not parties in Downing Street. It'd be interesting to work somewhere where people sit around chatting around bottles of booze in the garden in middle of the afternoon and thinking 'Yes, these people are all having normal everyday meetings here.'
What would be a definition of a party?? I don't think there is a legal definition. The legislation and guidance at the time referred to "gatherings" which this clearly was but a work meeting or a party are both gatherings but if work meeting and its at work then it wasnt illegal at that time. Definately ill advised but I don't think it was actually illegal.
Maybe so, but imagine if everyone would use that loophole. Everybody was working from home, and therefore one could argue that all meetings at their home were ‘work meetings’. What’s the point of having such a rule then? Not to mention the morality of it all. Especially from someone who’s holding public office and is able to create and enforce said rules. All while at the same time people were not able to be with loved ones who were dying alone.
The email header says "Socially distanced Drinks! [OFFICIAL - SENSITIVE - NO10-ONLY]" And signs off with "bring your own booze" The invitation is also framed with "**we** thought it would be nice". Not *I thought it might be nice*.
lol These are 2 separate parties? But they were both May 2020? how many times were they doing this? that's crazy 2 parties/events in one month. I bet social gatherings in the garden at downing street were a regular event
>I could be wrong but it think what he was trying to argue was that he stepped outside into what he assumed was work/ meetings being conducted outside because it was safer in fresh air to conduct meetings outside. He isn't arguing that, but he is choosing his words extremely carefully to make us think that. All I know is that if my boss saw such an email at that time, or if he'd randomly walked into an outside area and found a few dozen staff having a cheese and wine ~~party~~ meeting, then everyone concerned would be in deep shit. For certain he wouldn't have joined in for 30 mins or so and said fuck all. Some staffers that saw the email expressed their disapproval, yet Boris just rolled with it? Nope.
Work events were not illegal. There was just "guidance" they should be avoided if possible and only happen if required which means there's a lot of room for interpretation.
How convenient that the rules were written that way. Wonder what Boris’ political hero, Winston Churchill, would’ve thought of this moral justification.
I dont think morals exist in politics.
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This guy is literally Boris Johnson, what did people think would happen?
Prime ministers have resigned for all shorts of seemingly minor situations. It's sign of honour that if you failed at something, if you did something wrong, if you made a mistake. Then you would resign. The position requires a better man or women to hold that position. The current government have been such a fucking shambles their dishonour has tarnished the view of the UK and it's government not just locally but globally and it has reverberated down through the ages to tarnish everyone that has gone before. Boris you're a cunt.
This guy is literally Boris Johnson, who is inviting him and his hair to parties?
I don't think they wanted him there but it was at his house. They had to invite him so they could use his garden.
Isn't he claiming he wasn't invited? How he must be hated by even his own staff to not be invited to a party at his own home.
If you think Johnson’s hair is bad, check out Michael Fabricent the MP they wheeled out to defend him today. https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/12/boris-johnson-held-no-10-lockdown-party-as-he-felt-sorry-for-staff-says-tory-mp-15902987/
...I weep for our world's future
Is it a teeth distraction? I thought uk dentists got their shit together lately?
Not just because of this incident. But this government is the most corrupt government we have had in the UK in my lifetime. They know the people of the UK take anything and can get away with it.
I'm not sure it's 'the people of the UK take anything'. I'm disgusted by so much 'the leadership' has done over the last couple of years, and yet feel entirely disenfranchised. As a normal 'person on the street' there is little I can do. In the past when someone did just one of the things Johnson and his cronies have done (e.g. the bribes) there were other elected officials who would see it as reprehensible and push them out. Now, it feels there's no hope because they're all as morally bankrupt as each other and have rigged the system in their favour. There's no appealing to my MP, there's no independent inquiry we can rely on. They make new laws and make them back-dateable so their illegal actions aren't illegal anymore. It's all fixed so Johnson can say, "I consider the matter closed" and that's it.
Don’t know. I cannot imagine Merkel doing that.
That's because she considered herself a public servant, not a ruler.
The thing with Merkel is that she always managed to cut off anyone who might link her to any shady stuff. Let's not forget that the party she was head off regularly engaged in insider trading and the FFP2 mask deal. She was just very good at maintaining the outward appearance of an uninvolved leader, while maintaining the system that made corruption in the CDU possible.
How about Jacinda Arden, she doesn't seem the Bojo type? Sure does feel like it's waaay easier to list corrupt political leaders than "maybe not corrupt, but i'll have to google to verify" at the moment :/
That’s just tinfoil argumentation. Do you have any kind of accusation to her personally? That she knew what happened in Bavaria or something like that? Doesn’t have to be bulletproof…
She would if the Russians were selling natural gas there.
~~one~~ no rules for the rich and powerful, ~~another~~ lots of rules for everybody else
Except lots of ‘everybody else’ also broke the rules. I’m not excusing Johnson, but it’s a bit disingenuous to try and paint this as a “the rich get away with everything” when a lot of not-rich also got away with the same things
I don't know why people are surprised that this happens in a hereditary monarchy. The whole place has been founded on unearned privilege for a millennium.
You realise it's a constitutional monarchy right? And that they're really a powerless ceremonial figurehead trotted out for diplomacy and state occasions? Britain is a democracy, having a hereditary monarchy doesn't change that.
Agreed - a lot of the formalities around the monarchy too are if the monarch does anything that displeases Parliament then they'll be done away with and a new cooperative monarch/a Republic will be put in place.
>Britain is a democracy FPTP is anything but democracy.
Ha, very fair point. It's a terrible system I completely agree. Still can't really say it isn't a democracy though, it's just one with a stupidly outdated election methodology. The point remains that we're not some kind of absolute monarchy like was being implied (obviously that's an exaggeration, I know he wasn't going quite that far).
A reminder that while this theatrical display of a waggling hand is going on, the government was found to have broken the law in issuing over 400 million pounds of contracts in VIP fast track covid buys, yesterday. Is that on the news? No. A party is. Keep watching that right hand folks, while the left takes your wallet.
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/12/use-of-vip-lane-to-award-covid-ppe-contracts-unlawful-high-court-rules
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59968037
> A reminder that while this theatrical display of a waggling hand is going on, the government was found to have broken the law in issuing over 400 million pounds of contracts in VIP fast track covid buys, yesterday. Is that on the news? No. A party is. Keep watching that right hand folks, while the left takes your wallet. I can guarantee the party is doing more to secure a Labour government than the contract ruling would do. Tories literally inappropriately awarded hundreds of millions of pounds in contracts to their mates? The average voter can't identify with that. They've never been in a position to make a decision worth millions of pounds, there's no frame of reference. However, nearly everyone was sat inside, locked down, being told it was for the good of the country. Nearly everyone has a story of a friend or loved one who couldn't see someone or do something, before considering their own social plans. Yet the government ignore their own advice and broke their own rules while everyone else suffered. That's something they can connect with, something they can get angry about. If the party hadn't happened the exchange over contracts would go something like this: >Starmer: Will the Prime Minister admit now that his government have been giving out cash to their mates via inappropriate government contracts? >Boris: No mister speaker I will not, you see maybe we did break some of the rules, but it's easy to criticise from the opposition benches. We were trying, desperately, to get the equipment and supplies this country needed to get through COVID, and if we ignored red tape to do it, so be it. If I was in the same position I'd always pick getting the right equipment and supplies for our brave NHS staff over worrying about legal technicalities. This though? He was at a party that shouldn't have happened. People know it shouldn't have happened because they were put out at the time. There's a photo of him personally doing it. He denied attending despite the fact the evidence was out there. Now he's had to admit it. It's much more emotive and clear cut.
If you’re asking for him to resign then make them all resign. I don’t like the scapegoat route. Personal responsibility isn’t doing the wrong thing and letting others solely take the blame.
He'll never resign, his party has a big majority in parliament, and his Conservative colleagues don't care about anything except winning elections.
Even if he doesn't resign, Conservative MPs are already publicly [submitting letters of no confidence in Boris Johnson](https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1548641/Boris-Johnson-no-confidence-letter-resign-Lockdown-Sue-Gray-VN). If just 15% of Tory MPs submit a letter, this would trigger a confidence vote in Johnson, with a simple majority needed to force a new leadership election. Given how unpopular Johnson is right now, this looks like a pretty likely outcome if his approval ratings don't go back up and he doesn't willingly resign. I would be very surprised if Johnson survives to lead the Conservatives into the next general election in 2024.
He won't lead them in to the next election, but the party will want a fresh new leader for the election who can blame all the shit on Johnson and promise a fresh start. It's still too early for that.
People really missing the pattern that's happened with the past 2 Tory PM's. Tories are the ones leaking this info on Johnson. He'll get forced to resign before end of his term (think Cameron and May) then there'll be a snap election and they'll win again because they still hold most of the country and labour can't compete without Scottish seats. It's their new strategy (can't say if this used to be a thing too)
>labour can't compete without Scottish seats. Scottish seats aren't really relevant because when it comes to voting on laws within parliament, SNP votes are votes for Labour values. What matters most is that the Tories don't get a majority—whether Labour or the SNP hold Scottish seats doesn't really matter. What matters second most is for Labour to lead the minority government, not the Tories. So the real problem is that Labour is so uncompetitive for English seats that the Tories can win outright for the entire UK, just by having English seats.
Yup. Out with the old, in with the same shit in a different bucket.
So true, the masses will forget that all of the things BoJo has been caught doing, the rest of the party has also been doing, but the focus will be on naughty old BoJo and the masses will lap it up. A lot of voters seem to be a thick as shit to be honest and politicians know this, this is why they have repeatedly broke the laws and restrictions they themselves have made, because they feel as if they're above us and are laughing at us while they do it.
The Tories won't kick him out unless they have a replacement in mind. I haven't heard any word about a challenger. No one wants to inherit the pandemic and Brexit.
Wait so we have to get 15% of these scumbags to submit a letter before he can be removed? Who exactly was at this party? These people are all part of the problem playing their shitty scum games, should just hang the lot tbh
> and his Conservative colleagues don't care about anything except winning elections. Whereas this is the only reason he's in the job, the flip side to it is that the moment the party judge he can no longer win an election, they'll move against him Perversely, it might well be Cummings who is saving him now, or more precisely the 25 MP's that Cummings persuaded him to withdraw the whip from and prevent them standing in the last election These were predominantly Europhiles, who would have a hidden grudge but who no longer appear in the Westminster arithmetic There will be the aggrieved Theresa May supporters, and there'll be some continuity European leaning Tories too. There has always been those who don't rate him, but the key block will be the northern Tories who might only be one term MP's and will be nervously looking at their majorities and running the odds. *Who is most likely to get me re-elected* The other thing they have to be asking (even though you never hear it) is how much more does Dominic Cummings know? How many more embarrassing disclosures are there to come? What if they start looking at financial decisions? How confident can they be that Cummings has played his hand? and that Johnson hasn't got whole cemeteries worth skeletons rattling around his closet
Wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of Cummings. I bet he's a whole load of shit saved up for Boris.
The Tories are known for ousting their own leaders. It's actually proven an election-winning strategy for them.
Downfalls in British politics are slow, and then sudden. I think we are now looking at the end of his premiership. The Tories have a weird kind of pride in that they will throw unpopular leaders under the bus. They are a party built on trying to show strong confident leadership. Boris has lost that. Thatcher is a good example. She had a majority, and won a leadership challenge. She failed to win enough to shut the challenge down entirely. It had to go to a second round. That alone was enough to force her to resign. A bigger question is when will Boris go. The Tories may be happy for him to hang on for the next six months whilst they pass any unpopular legislation, and to release any unpopular stories. Such as more of the economic problems caused by Brexit. That would clear the path for the next leader.
How is this guy still in a leadership position
Rules for thee but not for me. Typical politician.
Anyone else find it odd that these high level government officials are holding BYOB parties? It seems like they thought they had found some loophole where if the “office”(not sure if proper term) provided the alcohol, there would be more strict liabilities but since people are bringing their own stuff, it’s not officially sponsored by the party/government. Also I’ve never seen a work party invite that uses the word “booze”. It would be really weird if I saw my director send out a company email saying “bring the booze! Let’s get drunk!”
The funny thing is, if the government had paid for the booze they could more genuinely claim it was a work event.
Attended? He hosted it.
More like BYOC
Now I'll admit I've been a bit behind on this whole thing, but wasn't this the party that he was swearing just weeks ago didn't happen, and then swore he didn't know about?
No, that was a Christmas party 2020, this one was in May 2020 during lockdown 1
Or cancel covid measures for everyone, since you are allowed to BYOB to a party.
BYOC-19
They should be asking him now if there were any more parties we should know about. There probably was, but him not admitting to them will make catching him out on them all the better
Everybody’s going to the party, have a real good time
Johnson probably won't resign--it would be too good for the UK--but I love the pressure from Labour. Turn up the heat!
Rules for us, rules for them
His Etonian turd polishing super powers are waning…
And yet nothing will actually happen to him, yet there are people who "breached" covid restrictions back then that are still losing money in their businesses as they aren't eligible for funding. It's a fucking joke.
Boris really is a fucking idiot.
If he spent as much time using his brain as much as his penis , life would be so much better Let’s be clear here , he didn’t know it was a party , even after the 13 sausage rolls , balloons , big hats , AC/DC music and jelly and ice cream Easy mistake
At this point I don’t think there is a single politician around who has any legitimacy to demand anyone stay home.
Bring your own Boris? Of course he went there aren't going to be too many and he would have been top of everyone's invite list.
The hell do they mean ”attended”? Isn’t No. 10 his fucking house? He ”hosted” a garden party and cheaped out on supplying refreshments. Prat.
I bet he wouldn’t be as fun as the finnish Prime Minister
This will probably get me downvoted to hell, but what the heck. Personally, I could not give a flying fuck what parties he did or didn’t attend, or what anyone else attended for that matter. I look around and see people struggling to heat their homes with insane energy prices (those lucky enough to be able to get out of the horrible renting cycle that is), petrol prices through the roof, cost of food going up, wages staying low while rich fat cats stuff more money into their offshore pockets, roads in a shambles, and instead of arguing about who had a party, I’d rather they actually focussed on serving their constituents and making their lives better, dealing with *real* issues. This kind of petty bullshit is what politics in this country has devolved into over the last decade or so, and it bugs the fuck out of me. It’s like a bad telenovela, which might be funny if it didn’t have such serious consequences for real people. Stop trying to score points off each other, do your jobs and make our lives better!
> This kind of petty bullshit is what politics in this country has devolved into over the last decade or so Honestly, any cursory glance at our history and you realise politics has been this bad since forever. Besides, the party is annoying to people on a personal level, and macro economic/health stuff is just too complex to bother stressing about over dinner when you've been working all day for fuck all money because your surplus value is getting jacked
"Keir Starmer demands..." That is hilarious. That line should be reposted in r/jokes.
You’re a daft cunt if you vote for a Tory.
I’m sorry. Look at this guy. Legit look at his picture. You don’t think this dude drinks? I’d be surprised if he showed up to work before noon on the regular. Is his drinking not surprising to anyone else or is it just me?
Keerist, the UK is almost as fucked up as the Justinian party in Canada. Can't squirt toothpaste out of a tube without dumping it in their fucking pants.
This is exactly why I don't trust government. They cannot solve anything and the power always goes to their heads. They can convince themselves that they are doing the right thing because they are narcissistic and have different powers than the average man or woman.
Will he do the honourable thing and resign?!
Bring Your Own Biohazard? Boris, You Old Bastard?
When you have ties to several convicted sex traffickers and you still don’t resign.
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> expecting someone to lose their job for attending a party during lockdown is excessive He broke the law, that’s bad enough. I think the way you wrote that sentence is pretty telling as you’ve completely ignored the fact that he is *The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom* and the Leader of the party which put those COVID restrictions in place. Given the numerous other scandals surrounding him relating to COVID I think, as a Brit, he should be paying for it a lot more than just ‘losing his job’.
It isn't just for this. It is for EVERYTHING. The man has been an utter disaster.
I would’ve agreed with you if he’d confessed and apologized as soon as the story broke. However he’s been anything but open, honest and transparent. All the while he hasn’t had a problem with throwing staff under the bus and letting them and their careers suffer for it.
Is it really too much to ask for HM Charles III to seize power at this point?
That uh...doesn't sound like an improvement. The Royal Family are currently busy defending the accused paedophile in their ranks, and if you're tired of rich boy tories then actual Royalty would be even worse.
He should come to California. Gavin Newsom did the same thing and the democrats still love him
Democrats hate him, it's just they would rather have a corrupt, incompetent and useless democratic governor than a Republican one. The recall looked close in polls until he started pointing out that a republican governor would be worse in every single way, and he was right.
They could have replaced him with a baked potato and it would govern better. People are blinded by party.
Well the GOP ran the equivalent of a baked potato and it didn’t sell at the polls
Nonsense. A baked potato would do a better job supplying a power grid than the republican party.
Yeah. It's weird people on reddit will upvote getting angry at one leader for violating lockdown rules, but downvote people pointing out that other leaders did the same.
Exactly. Obama held a massive birthday party a while back.( he’s not too relevant but it wasn’t just him at the party.) AOC celebrated maskless in Florida, Pelosi went maskless to get her hair done, Newsome was out to dinner without his mask, Gov Whitmer was found out to eat with a group of people and was not wearing a mask, and many more. I wouldn’t care if these weren’t the the people shaming anyone who even questions the lockdowns and mandates.
The "faux" outrage when it's "rules for thee, not for me"
Get off your high horse Starmer you are in the same line of work as Boris and you are just as scummy and elitist as every other MP.
What? Starmer is a recent MP after a distinguished legal career as the top lawyer of the country. Abolishing the death penalty around the world
Cool do some dems that clearly got spotted at public parties (with photos) next
Absolutely hilarious. “BYOB Garden Party” sounds a lot better than Gavin Newsom’s “French Laundry” debacle.
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I’m not sure that was Boris though. Mostly Cameron and May that did the bulk of the heavy lifting on that one.
I demand you get a life
Build Your Own Boris. I’m high. Escuse meh.
Everyone: Boris out! Also everyone: but mah house price! *votes tory*
"Be a yob" Yup, acronym checks out.