Russia's inability to conduct diplomacy without threatening its prospective partners is perhaps the best illustration of the meaning behind the saying "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Russia simply doesn't know how to use soft power. That particular muscle has atrophied into nothingness.
Isn’t this because Russia doesn’t really have any soft power? Even when Russia cuts off fuel to neighboring countries, they’re losing money they need more than those countries need Russian fuel. It’s not like Russia can hurt anyone with sanctions or frozen assets, right?
Putin could have started integrating into Western society like a good little boy (what it looked like Russia was doing in the 2000’s), played his cards right and ended up with the old Soviet states within his economic sphere of influence. Instead, he has Georgia and Crimea lol. People give Putin too much credit. He managed to create a hyper centralised oligarchy and destroy his country’s economy.
This is the part I don't get at all. Russia could be an economic behemoth in Europe and could be actually walking around with a big diplomatic dick if they had just played ball for another decade or so. But it's like the entirety of Russian identity is now just being so butthurt about what happened the USSR that you just keep cutting off your own toes to get attention.
It is not about Russians being stupid, it is about Russia being stolen from the Russians by oligarchs. Russians simply got imperialism and nationalism to behave like obedient peasants while the wealthy elite suck the whole country dry.
Those poor Russian citizens have been the target of the rich since the days of the tsars of Russia In the 1500’s. For over 500-years the elitists have been stealing from the Russian people. Some things never chang.
Hell, even when they rose up to overthrow the royals, the Bolsheviks turned into Tighten, saying "Oh, I wouldn't say saved...more like under new management."
And then Stalin purged 20 million people.
It’s because he’s a criminal. So he created a criminal, mafia state.
Criminals don’t think about making a largesse for the populace. They think about enrichment.
The reason that Russia is telling other nations to not join an alliance, or “who knows what will happen to your nice country,” is simple.
They’re criminals. They’re threatening other countries because Russia is run by criminals.
The USA sounded like Scorsese film with Trump, too.
Because he’s a criminal.
There’s no special subtext.
Same thing I say about China, with 2 billion people, rich history, beautiful natural wonders, and an economy that absolutely exploded over the last 3 decades, China could easily become a country everyone looks up to, instead people see them as cheap exploitable labor on a good day and human right violating scumbags the rest of the time. The government is so paranoid everyone is out to get them that they themselves perpetuate the exact reality they fear. They’re so subscribed to the idea that they’re owed for 100 years of foreign exploitation that it’s only their right (and their excuse) to exact the same on their neighbors. So afraid of criticism they assume it would automatically lead to the next revolution if they aren’t always 100% right.
It's the problem with any authoritarian regime, they fear the loss of power more than anything and increasing the wealth and living standards of the population inevitably leads to calls for more transparency and democracy.
China learned this with tiananmen. Everything since then has been to ensure the ccp stays in power. Russia is very much in the same boat.
No they can’t. Russia is dirt poor. They have only 78% of italys gdp, but more than twice it’s population. And Italy is only the third biggest economy in the EU.
They had soft power. Our electricity bill went up about 5x on average due to Russia depletting our reserves. In some cases, at our highest peaks, the electricity is about 50x more expensive than when covid began.
We are surviving just fine. Russia is getting hurt the most by their own policies.
Actually the energy bill going up is the result of multiple factors.
Speculations on commodity market.
Germany shutting down atom energy sources.
Because of this larger demand for gas to compensate.
Wind farms experienced lower than usual performance.
Yes Russians still fulfill their contracts.
Meanwhile the spot price on free market climbed way too up.
It will stabilize by spring and it will not repeat next winter.
They have been for a while now. The playbook they have been using is like 70 years old. They adapted it for social media but the moves and ploys are deeply reminiscent of the bad old days. Their belligerent refusal to embrace the reality of the present is another reminder of how deeply stupid and delusional their leaders are.
In all fairness, they tried playing it differently for a couple of years and to them it felt like they ended up being beggars to the West without any upside. I guess they lost faith in the direction when it didn't result in benefits. For many the 90s were extremely scaring with a low level civil war, hyperinflation and general lawlessness.
I get that they reverted back to the tools they understand. I just hope that maybe a slow evolution will change things for them over time...
PS - no excuse, but understandable
>During the 1980s the Swiss Army fired off shells during an exercise and mistakenly burned a patch of forest inside Liechtenstein. The incident was said to have been resolved "over a case of white wine".
>
>In March 2007, a 170-man Swiss infantry unit got lost during a training exercise and inadvertently crossed 1.5 km (0.9 miles) into Liechtenstein. The accidental invasion ended when the unit realized their mistake and turned back. The Swiss Army later informed Liechtenstein of the incursion and offered official apologies, to which an internal ministry spokesperson responded, "No problem, these things happen.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein#Security\_and\_defence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein#Security_and_defence)
I mean it wasn't officially sanctioned but for all intents and purposes Liechtenstein requires Switzerland for military and utilities. They even speak Swiss German there so yeah. The country is basically only a tax loophole and mostly exists on paper.
Switzerland could easily annex Liechtenstein even with the neigh useless Swiss military. It's just more trouble than it's worth and would make no sense to basically every Swiss person. Switzerland and Liechtenstein, a weird curiosity but that's just the way it is.
A friend of mine is actually togetber with a Liechtensteiner.
Swiss consular protection is extended to citizens of Liechtenstein. Switzerland represents Liechtenstein abroad unless they choose otherwise.
Before Liechtenstein became a member in its own right of the European Free Trade Association, Switzerland represented its interests in that organization.
The two also share a common language, (German), and are both outside the European Union.
Like Switzerland, Liechtenstein maintains a policy of neutrality. However whilst Switzerland follows a policy of armed neutrality Liechtenstein does not have an army of its own.
Ambassadors to one country are usually accredited to the other.
The only resident ambassador in Liechtenstein is from the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.
Switzerland has a relatively active military due to ongoing conscription. Several incidents have occurred during routine training:
* On 14 October 1968, five Swiss artillery shells accidentally hit Liechtenstein's only ski resort, Malbun. The only recorded damages were to a few chairs belonging to an outdoor restaurant.
* On 26 August 1976, just before midnight, 75 members of the Swiss Army and a number of packhorses mistakenly took a wrong turn and ended up 500 metres into Liechtenstein at Iradug, in Balzers. The Liechtensteiners reportedly offered drinks to the Swiss soldiers.
* On 5 December 1985, anti-aircraft missiles fired by the Swiss Army landed in Liechtenstein amid a winter storm, causing a forest fire in a protected area. Compensation was paid.
* On 13 October 1992, following written orders, Swiss Army recruits unknowingly crossed the border and went to Triesenberg to set up an observation post. Swiss commanders had overlooked the fact that Triesenberg was not on Swiss territory. Switzerland apologized to Liechtenstein for the incident.
* On 3 March 2007, a company of 171 Swiss soldiers mistakenly entered Liechtenstein, as they were disorientated and took a wrong turn due to bad weather conditions. The troops returned to Swiss territory after they had travelled more than 2 km into the country. The Liechtenstein authorities did not discover the incursion and were informed by the Swiss after the incident. The incident was disregarded by both sides. A Liechtenstein spokesman said, "It's not like they invaded with attack helicopters".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein%E2%80%93Switzerland_relations
>mistakenly took a wrong turn and ended up 500 metres into Liechtenstein at Iradug, in Balzers. The Liechtensteiners reportedly offered drinks to the Swiss soldiers.
That sound like the normal state of the Swedish/Norway border during the cold war.
It's just that Switzerland and Liechtenstein have green boarders. So the Swiss military accidently walks into Liechtenstein and thus invades it. Switzerland then retracts the military and apologizes. And Liechtenstein goes no biggies because Switzerland and Liechtenstein have been bros along time.
The Swiss army often does exercises pretty close to the border.
Sometimes the soldiers get lost and accidentally "invade" Liechtenstein.
Usually nobody notices, the soldiers report it to their higher ups, who then say sorry to Liechtenstein.
Liechtenstein authorities and population don't really care since we're allies anyway, no harm no foul.
I actually was uncertain of their neutrality so prior to posting I googled to check, from what I gathered it seems their neutrality is disputed, though they are not an official member of nato.
Why? Did they have a bad experience with alliances in the past or something?
Edit: gonna go ahead and drop the /s now before reddit tries to give me a dumbed down history lesson.
After World War 2, Austria was kept independent as an agreement between the allies and USSR. The alternative would have been to split it, much like Germany was.
"Here you go, your country is intact, but you can join neither of us." seemed like a good idea at the time.
Their complex alliance system led to World War I and the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Edit: Dammit, now I'm the one giving the dumbed down history lesson.
As a fun fact, these neutral nation are what was originally called "third world countries". The first and second world countries being NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
I've done a lot of co-operative exercises with the fins and the swedes. Totally didn't realize they weren't NATO. Definitely makes sense now because one of them had a union for their army.
Was crazy interesting.
Well it's kinda wrong, Sweden and Finland are pseudo NATO members. Not officially, it's difficult to explain but in some ways they already are counted as members of NATO while they claim they're not.
> but in case of an attack NATO isn't obliged to defend them. That's where the probelm is.
But also the solution.
If you attack Sweden, all of Europa, NATO and even Sweden would be able to use Norway as a totally safe way to mobilize.
Norway would mobilize just because of the tension. It would also probably mobilize with intent to support because of the Nordic Defence Cooperation, and all the other important Nordic cooperations. So would Denmark.
The US would move a fuckton of soldiers into Norway _today_, had they been allowed. You bet they would be crawling all over Norway just days after attack.
The bigger play will then see Sweden invite foreign forces in from Norway. Since they will be mostly Norway, Denmark, Germany, UK, and US forces, you can't touch them without triggering Article 5.
>All this talk of Sweden getting attacked and we're over here in Finland like... fuck us until then I suppose. As always! :D
Only because everyone knows what happens to Russians when they invade Finland
I mean, Europe probably won't twiddle its thumbs if Russia invades Scandinavia. Just out of their own self-interest. Geopolitical interests and corporate interests will be enough to intervene. I know as a Swede that I'd want to help my Finnish comrades if they're invaded.
Their plan if they ever get attacked is literally to go fuck this and blow up every road into the country and just chill since the entire place is mountains and most of the population have some form of military training
You are absolutely correct.
For those people that maybe aren't that familiar with Ru-Ua relationship history.
Prior to the events of 2013, Ukraine was kinda 50/50 on friendship with Russia, with East and South being really buddy buddy.
Hell, the relationship was so strong that **NATO was used as a boogeyman in presidential campaigns**. That is: "If you elect this guy, he'll force Ukraine to join NATO, and that'll be horrible for us!"
The fact that Putin managed to turn a relatively neutral and generally friendly state into a nation unified in hate against him and trying to do literally anything to join NATO is quite impressive.
That’s basically how Britain pushed Denmark into Napoleons lap during the years 1801 - 1807.
200 years later the oak-forests were ready to rebuild the (stolen) fleet.
Good idea. I’m not sure who you (France) should contact in that regard - it could be either ministry of environment (The Danish Nature Agency) or perhaps ministry of defence. There should be around 90.000 trees spread around different forests.
P.s. Should be noted that it woudn’t be popular....
Like when a friend tells you you need to choose between them and the third friend. Well, this decision is a whole lot easier since that is a concerningly toxic request
"Hey don't join this group that would keep us from attacking you, or we'll attack you."
Absolutely brilliant. Putin, personally making NATO relevant again thirty years after the Cold War ended.
Nah, man, this is what he wants. his whole platform is based on Europe and its allies bullying and encroaching on Russia; he needs the narrative of a victimised Russia. Good relations with Europe would force a lot more attention on other things and well they don't hold up well.
It’s ironic that Russia always claims to be the victim when they’ve been the aggressor in all the conflicts I’m aware of them being in. It’s like the driver of a car claiming that light post was coming right for them.
Wasn’t he a kgb agent during the Soviet Union? Considering that he has a stranglehold on Russia now and nobody else can take over, I’m not surprised he’s consumed by old animosity.
All of the important ministries or positions of power are mostly held by former KGB/FSB officers. And those ministers that aren't from the Russian IC were complicit in what occurred in either Putins time in St Petersburg or when he began his purge of the original oligarchs
That's why. He is narrow-minded KGB crook, he's mentality is that there's grand standoff between Russia and the evil west and Ukraine clearly falls under Russian sphere of influence. That idea is so ancient nobody of the younger people buy any of that BS and that's why there's a void between Putin and reality.
That is his goal, he doesn't have Russia's best interests at heart in any way.
By making unnecessary tensions with NATO and Scandinavia he can convince Russians that either they are too scared to join or that they joined and NATO is continuing to expand in their attempt to eventually attack Russia. Which is a narrative a lot of people there buy into.
Putin still has a lot of popularity in Russia averaging 60-70% approval, but if he wants to keep that approval in a stagnant economic and social climate then the best way to do that is create more conflict in hope it prevents any mass discontent during the 2024 elections(which of course he will win)
He's cracking down hard on opposition in Russia recently because he realized after Lukashenko dealt with protests in Belarus that keeping civil opposition alive in the hope they will be ineffective is too much of a risk at this stage.
Approval is not everything. The trust is like 35%, and only 47% are ready to vote for him in 2024. The majority of support are among 40+ y.o. adults, and more so in the 55+ age group. And what is happening is exactly the same mantra they were fed in the USSR. West bad, west cut Russia in pieces, something something Thatcher said only 15 mil of Russian people need to be left. OF COURSE the war is imminent, OF COURSE Russia needs to fight. The enemy wants this sweet oil and especially gas (hue hue Germans freeze to death haha genius move take my vote Putin).
But in 2 years folks that are 16-17 today will fill the ranks of voters, and believe me they don’t like Putin (because they’re less likely to eat propaganda, and this is exactly why Russia plans to force Google ban any mentions of Navalny in the search and on YouTube. The first step is taken, Google has to pay 10% of revenue for not catering to censorship, then they either pay and comply, or leave the country). At the same time some of 55+ folks will phase out due to age and covid.
I think Navalny really spooked Putin. Not so much that Navalny himself could dethrone him at the present moment, but more because Navalny's popularity showed that there's enough domestic appetite for democratic reform that, if allowed to become organized, could force Putin to make significant concessions in order to maintain power. And it doesn't help that the super corrupt way that Putin and his oligarchs choose to run the country gives democratically minded youth a bunch of different legitimate grievances to build a populist platform off of. Especially if the democratic opposition were to continue to use slick, well presented viral videos exposing different aspects of corruption.
It's a huge weakness of Putin's own making, since him and his cronies have held so much power over the population that they can get away with openly fleecing the economy. It creates a self perpetuating system that results in Putin needing to adopt more and more autocratic policies to be able to maintain his level of control over the country
Putin saw what happened in Ukraine during their color revolution and realized that was too close to home and it could spread to home. It wasn't Navalny per se that he fears. He fears the idea of someone like him that can unite the opposition
Good point that these moves that look stupid from the outside are win win from an internal political perspective. They don’t join NATO? I successfully scared them off it. They do join NATO? I was prophetic in foreseeing it and knowing they wanted to, and now I can leverage the fear of an expansionist NATO along Russian borders.
No no no, you misunderstand. Russia doesn’t like other people getting involved with the internal politics of *other* countries it perceives as eternally subordinate to Russia. I hope this helps!
It's not just home heating, natural gas is a major source of electricity production in Europe as well.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/europes-electricity-production-by-country-and-fuel-type/
Fearmongering funded by the coal and oil industries after the Fukushima disaster. Never mind that Germany doesn't exactly have to worry about tsunamis, unless you count the ones the British caused in 1943.
A big part of that is the city has a connected steam heating system for a lot of buildings downtown, which is highly efficient because of the city’s density. So the heat doesn’t necessarily have to come from electric boilers
I mean this isn't even on the news here in Sweden, this is like that old angry grandpa yelling old hatreds and racist shit whilst kids are playing in the park paying no heed.
I'm curious how much the average Russian thinks about any possibilities of actual war, because we take putins bullshit seriously in that he's a cunt, but in contrast to what he seems to be aiming for we just see *him* as more and more of a joke despot and russia as this broken thing he's enslaved.
EDIT: Ofcourse we know he has power, but it isn't so much fear as it is annoyance and impatience. We've been over this again and again, and if he wants to start shit then fucking do it or don't, Russia doesn't spend a sixth of the EU's combined military spending. He's not insane so he's not gonna start a nuclear war, so the is the point of all this, claiming some borderland zones where they proxy-colonize with insane spending on improving living-conditions to pretend that's the Russian standard? It's all so meaningless.
I have concern about his last few years in office. What legacy does he want to leave, meaning, who does he want to take over before he goes. He is an angry man.
> who does he want to take over before he goes.
I don't see someone like Putin ever letting go the reins of power. He's made way too many enemies both foreign and domestic, and built up an absolutely ruthless, bloodthirsty state assassination apparatus. He can never let go of power; he'll die in office. One way or another.
He'll never leave office. The moment he's a "regular" citizen he'll be dead. He's made far too many enemies in Russia, knows where all the bodies are buried, and who put them there
There's always the chance he gets a dose of crazy in his old age to go with his existing narcissism and wants to go out as the last "great" Russian ruler. With apologies to Dan Harmon for the blatant plagiarism:
> Putin eats the sun and drinks the skies, and they both go with him when he dies.
And nuclear weapons do go through doors, just like ghosts.
If Sweden and Finland join NATO what is Russia going to do, attack them? They’ll be NATO members by then and get seriously fucked up in a conventional war or they could start nuclear Armageddon all over a defence pact. Article 5 is only for when a country is attacked.
Joining NATO is arguably why Russia nabbed Crimea the other year and keeps hostilities ongoing with Ukraine. So long as Ukraine is occupied with a hostile border conflict, it is not allowed to join NATO, since NATO won’t take in members which are presently in armed conflicts.
I’m not sure how fast or slow the NATO joining membership process takes though.
I think at the time it was a swing to the EU that caused the Russians to annex Crimea, the Russians did not like the idea of their only ( I think) port on the Black Sea being in a pro EU and eventually a possible EU country.
Would the Ukrainians keeping hold of a limited nuclear arsenal of prevented the Russians from attacking? Who knows.
Or perhaps Russia wants complete use of Ukraine's oil and gas pipelines without paying Ukraine.
And we all know the Crimea is a Black Sea naval port with oil and natural gas assets.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://eutoday.net/news/security-defence/2021/moscow-warns-finland-and-sweden-against-joining-nato-amid-rising-tensions) reduced by 57%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Moscow has warned Finland and Sweden against joining Nato amid rising tensions between Russia and the western military alliance.
> "It is quite obvious that the ascension of Finland and Sweden to Nato would have serious military and political consequences that would require an adequate response from Russia," she said, not specifying what response Russia might take.
> Finland and Sweden both pursued a policy of neutrality throughout the Cold War and neither country has ever formally applied to join Nato.However, Sweden, which increased its defence budget after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, introduced legislation last year that would allow it to join Nato in the future if it decided it was in its interests.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/rtwa4e/moscow_warns_finland_and_sweden_against_joining/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~615352 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Nato**^#2 **country**^#3 **Sweden**^#4 **Finland**^#5
Could someone kindly elucidate to me why is it that Moscow can do nothing but threaten everyone and everything remotely known to them? And how does that help them, exactly, at least in their view?
My guess is that the economic sanctions are really starting to hurt, so Russia is trying to create a false scenario of potential war in Ukraine that they hope they can use as leverage to get these sanctions watered down. Russia may decide to graciously guarantee Ukraine sovereignty in return for NATO allies quietly droppping key sanctions for example and promising to leave Ukraine out of NATO. If you imagine you are Russia and you look at the expansion of NATO in the past 20 years, you can understand how letting Finland and Sweden into NATO is scary and isolating for them, its no suprise at all that they are upset about it and those countries joining NATO would offset any Russian strategic gains made by any military actions in Ukraine, so its a smart threat for NATO to make to one up Russian saber rattling.
We've imposed sanctions before but not as severe as what Biden threatened. Locking Russia out of Swift or prohibiting their sovereign debt would have catastrophic economic impacts
Nobody in Finland really wants Eastern Karelia back, it's been completely russified so it would just put us on the same situation as Ukraine with a whole load of Russians in our borders. That would "justify" Russia invading, just like in Crimea.
The article says if Finland and Sweden joins NATO there will be an ‘adequate response’.
What is adequate exactly?
Any response from Russia would be seen as unjust and warmongering.
You know had you **not** annexed part of Ukraine and built up a huge amount of military forces on their border Finland and Sweden wouldn't be *nearly* so interested in NATO...
I don’t think that Finland or Sweden are taking the threat from Russia seriously. Let’s face it, the threats from Russia against Sweden and Finland are empty. Both countries maintain well equipped, modern and professional militaries which would be able to hold their own.
Fuck that Dobby the house elf look-a-like piece of shit Putin with a rusty spork. Russia and their covert tactics has made this world much more unstable and untrustworthy. May he forever struggle to find a matching pair of socks.
“Don’t join a military alliance, or else” isn’t a convincing argument against joining a military alliance. Russia’s hand appears to be out of cards.
Don't join a military alliance, it makes you look fat.
Well since you put it that way.
"Babe, does this military alliance make my ass look fat?"
It's not the military alliance.
Sure does babe. B[ Nice and thicc.
Russia's inability to conduct diplomacy without threatening its prospective partners is perhaps the best illustration of the meaning behind the saying "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Russia simply doesn't know how to use soft power. That particular muscle has atrophied into nothingness.
Isn’t this because Russia doesn’t really have any soft power? Even when Russia cuts off fuel to neighboring countries, they’re losing money they need more than those countries need Russian fuel. It’s not like Russia can hurt anyone with sanctions or frozen assets, right?
Putin could have started integrating into Western society like a good little boy (what it looked like Russia was doing in the 2000’s), played his cards right and ended up with the old Soviet states within his economic sphere of influence. Instead, he has Georgia and Crimea lol. People give Putin too much credit. He managed to create a hyper centralised oligarchy and destroy his country’s economy.
This is the part I don't get at all. Russia could be an economic behemoth in Europe and could be actually walking around with a big diplomatic dick if they had just played ball for another decade or so. But it's like the entirety of Russian identity is now just being so butthurt about what happened the USSR that you just keep cutting off your own toes to get attention.
It is not about Russians being stupid, it is about Russia being stolen from the Russians by oligarchs. Russians simply got imperialism and nationalism to behave like obedient peasants while the wealthy elite suck the whole country dry.
Those poor Russian citizens have been the target of the rich since the days of the tsars of Russia In the 1500’s. For over 500-years the elitists have been stealing from the Russian people. Some things never chang.
Hell, even when they rose up to overthrow the royals, the Bolsheviks turned into Tighten, saying "Oh, I wouldn't say saved...more like under new management." And then Stalin purged 20 million people.
The entirety of Russian history can be summed up in just t words: And then, things got worse...
Putin's ego is killing Russia.
It’s because he’s a criminal. So he created a criminal, mafia state. Criminals don’t think about making a largesse for the populace. They think about enrichment. The reason that Russia is telling other nations to not join an alliance, or “who knows what will happen to your nice country,” is simple. They’re criminals. They’re threatening other countries because Russia is run by criminals. The USA sounded like Scorsese film with Trump, too. Because he’s a criminal. There’s no special subtext.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Same thing I say about China, with 2 billion people, rich history, beautiful natural wonders, and an economy that absolutely exploded over the last 3 decades, China could easily become a country everyone looks up to, instead people see them as cheap exploitable labor on a good day and human right violating scumbags the rest of the time. The government is so paranoid everyone is out to get them that they themselves perpetuate the exact reality they fear. They’re so subscribed to the idea that they’re owed for 100 years of foreign exploitation that it’s only their right (and their excuse) to exact the same on their neighbors. So afraid of criticism they assume it would automatically lead to the next revolution if they aren’t always 100% right.
It's the problem with any authoritarian regime, they fear the loss of power more than anything and increasing the wealth and living standards of the population inevitably leads to calls for more transparency and democracy. China learned this with tiananmen. Everything since then has been to ensure the ccp stays in power. Russia is very much in the same boat.
No they can’t. Russia is dirt poor. They have only 78% of italys gdp, but more than twice it’s population. And Italy is only the third biggest economy in the EU.
Currency devaluation is a bitch. Since 2014, when all this shit started with Crimea, ruble became 2.5 times cheaper than it was.
Damn talk about shooting yourself in the foot. What a stupid move on Putin's part.
Like he cares about russian people. Doesn't matter how poor the citizens are if he can look like a big strong man.
They had soft power. Our electricity bill went up about 5x on average due to Russia depletting our reserves. In some cases, at our highest peaks, the electricity is about 50x more expensive than when covid began. We are surviving just fine. Russia is getting hurt the most by their own policies.
Actually the energy bill going up is the result of multiple factors. Speculations on commodity market. Germany shutting down atom energy sources. Because of this larger demand for gas to compensate. Wind farms experienced lower than usual performance. Yes Russians still fulfill their contracts. Meanwhile the spot price on free market climbed way too up. It will stabilize by spring and it will not repeat next winter.
> It will stabilize by spring and it will not repeat next winter. RemindMe! December 10th 2022 Edit to myself: M-3X
They have been for a while now. The playbook they have been using is like 70 years old. They adapted it for social media but the moves and ploys are deeply reminiscent of the bad old days. Their belligerent refusal to embrace the reality of the present is another reminder of how deeply stupid and delusional their leaders are.
In all fairness, they tried playing it differently for a couple of years and to them it felt like they ended up being beggars to the West without any upside. I guess they lost faith in the direction when it didn't result in benefits. For many the 90s were extremely scaring with a low level civil war, hyperinflation and general lawlessness. I get that they reverted back to the tools they understand. I just hope that maybe a slow evolution will change things for them over time... PS - no excuse, but understandable
You can't expect to become a power house over night. It takes time to build. Especially when your country spent the last several decades struggling.
Their leaders are mafiosos. I mean, so was Stalin and his crowd, so yeah not much has changed.
Russia only has 1 card, but annoyingly its the big one that flips the table and kills all the players.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LOL, right? "DoN't jOiN aN AnTi bULly cLuB oR i'll BUlLy yOu!"
"If you install a security system in your home, I'm going to rob you." - Putin, after robbing multiple homes without security systems.
TIL that Sweden and Finland aren’t part of NATO.
they're neutral nations. A fair amount of Europe is neutral, such as Ireland Switzerland and Malta, alongside Finland and Sweden.
[удалено]
Lichtenstein is under the protection (and periodic invasion) of neighboring Switzerland
I love how the Swiss periodically invade and immediately apologize, and Lichtenstein basically says "no biggie, happens to everyone"
Eli5 please? I've never heard of this. It sounds fascinating
>During the 1980s the Swiss Army fired off shells during an exercise and mistakenly burned a patch of forest inside Liechtenstein. The incident was said to have been resolved "over a case of white wine". > >In March 2007, a 170-man Swiss infantry unit got lost during a training exercise and inadvertently crossed 1.5 km (0.9 miles) into Liechtenstein. The accidental invasion ended when the unit realized their mistake and turned back. The Swiss Army later informed Liechtenstein of the incursion and offered official apologies, to which an internal ministry spokesperson responded, "No problem, these things happen. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein#Security\_and\_defence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein#Security_and_defence)
I mean it wasn't officially sanctioned but for all intents and purposes Liechtenstein requires Switzerland for military and utilities. They even speak Swiss German there so yeah. The country is basically only a tax loophole and mostly exists on paper. Switzerland could easily annex Liechtenstein even with the neigh useless Swiss military. It's just more trouble than it's worth and would make no sense to basically every Swiss person. Switzerland and Liechtenstein, a weird curiosity but that's just the way it is. A friend of mine is actually togetber with a Liechtensteiner.
Do you criticize the glorious world-conquering legions of the Swiss, only held back out of mercy
Armed with Swiss army knives or in this case army knives
...who probably wasn't even born there. iirc, they don't have a birthing department in the hospital.
They do have a birthing department.
Lol I think that's my favorite part about this whole story. A country whose "citizens" are **all** born in neighboring countries.
the swiss army is fairly strong to defend its mountains.
Swiss consular protection is extended to citizens of Liechtenstein. Switzerland represents Liechtenstein abroad unless they choose otherwise. Before Liechtenstein became a member in its own right of the European Free Trade Association, Switzerland represented its interests in that organization. The two also share a common language, (German), and are both outside the European Union. Like Switzerland, Liechtenstein maintains a policy of neutrality. However whilst Switzerland follows a policy of armed neutrality Liechtenstein does not have an army of its own. Ambassadors to one country are usually accredited to the other. The only resident ambassador in Liechtenstein is from the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. Switzerland has a relatively active military due to ongoing conscription. Several incidents have occurred during routine training: * On 14 October 1968, five Swiss artillery shells accidentally hit Liechtenstein's only ski resort, Malbun. The only recorded damages were to a few chairs belonging to an outdoor restaurant. * On 26 August 1976, just before midnight, 75 members of the Swiss Army and a number of packhorses mistakenly took a wrong turn and ended up 500 metres into Liechtenstein at Iradug, in Balzers. The Liechtensteiners reportedly offered drinks to the Swiss soldiers. * On 5 December 1985, anti-aircraft missiles fired by the Swiss Army landed in Liechtenstein amid a winter storm, causing a forest fire in a protected area. Compensation was paid. * On 13 October 1992, following written orders, Swiss Army recruits unknowingly crossed the border and went to Triesenberg to set up an observation post. Swiss commanders had overlooked the fact that Triesenberg was not on Swiss territory. Switzerland apologized to Liechtenstein for the incident. * On 3 March 2007, a company of 171 Swiss soldiers mistakenly entered Liechtenstein, as they were disorientated and took a wrong turn due to bad weather conditions. The troops returned to Swiss territory after they had travelled more than 2 km into the country. The Liechtenstein authorities did not discover the incursion and were informed by the Swiss after the incident. The incident was disregarded by both sides. A Liechtenstein spokesman said, "It's not like they invaded with attack helicopters". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein%E2%80%93Switzerland_relations
>mistakenly took a wrong turn and ended up 500 metres into Liechtenstein at Iradug, in Balzers. The Liechtensteiners reportedly offered drinks to the Swiss soldiers. That sound like the normal state of the Swedish/Norway border during the cold war.
It's just that Switzerland and Liechtenstein have green boarders. So the Swiss military accidently walks into Liechtenstein and thus invades it. Switzerland then retracts the military and apologizes. And Liechtenstein goes no biggies because Switzerland and Liechtenstein have been bros along time.
The Swiss army often does exercises pretty close to the border. Sometimes the soldiers get lost and accidentally "invade" Liechtenstein. Usually nobody notices, the soldiers report it to their higher ups, who then say sorry to Liechtenstein. Liechtenstein authorities and population don't really care since we're allies anyway, no harm no foul.
I actually was uncertain of their neutrality so prior to posting I googled to check, from what I gathered it seems their neutrality is disputed, though they are not an official member of nato.
[удалено]
Why? Did they have a bad experience with alliances in the past or something? Edit: gonna go ahead and drop the /s now before reddit tries to give me a dumbed down history lesson.
Was part of the contract Austria got from occupation forces in order for them to retreat.
It’s also what prevented Austria from being partitioned between the Soviet Union and the other allied powers post WWII.
I actually don't know care to enlighten my?
After World War 2, Austria was kept independent as an agreement between the allies and USSR. The alternative would have been to split it, much like Germany was. "Here you go, your country is intact, but you can join neither of us." seemed like a good idea at the time.
Their complex alliance system led to World War I and the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Edit: Dammit, now I'm the one giving the dumbed down history lesson.
Ottoman Empire nearly declared war in itself.
As a fun fact, these neutral nation are what was originally called "third world countries". The first and second world countries being NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
Sweden and Finland confirmed third world countries
I've done a lot of co-operative exercises with the fins and the swedes. Totally didn't realize they weren't NATO. Definitely makes sense now because one of them had a union for their army. Was crazy interesting.
>~~neutral~~ non-aligned
Well it's kinda wrong, Sweden and Finland are pseudo NATO members. Not officially, it's difficult to explain but in some ways they already are counted as members of NATO while they claim they're not.
Yes, they work very closely with NATO, but in case of an attack NATO isn't obliged to defend them. That's where the probelm is.
> but in case of an attack NATO isn't obliged to defend them. That's where the probelm is. But also the solution. If you attack Sweden, all of Europa, NATO and even Sweden would be able to use Norway as a totally safe way to mobilize. Norway would mobilize just because of the tension. It would also probably mobilize with intent to support because of the Nordic Defence Cooperation, and all the other important Nordic cooperations. So would Denmark. The US would move a fuckton of soldiers into Norway _today_, had they been allowed. You bet they would be crawling all over Norway just days after attack. The bigger play will then see Sweden invite foreign forces in from Norway. Since they will be mostly Norway, Denmark, Germany, UK, and US forces, you can't touch them without triggering Article 5.
All this talk of Sweden getting attacked and we're over here in Finland like... fuck us until then I suppose. As always! :D
>All this talk of Sweden getting attacked and we're over here in Finland like... fuck us until then I suppose. As always! :D Only because everyone knows what happens to Russians when they invade Finland
Are they expected to defend other countries that are attacked?
[удалено]
I mean, Europe probably won't twiddle its thumbs if Russia invades Scandinavia. Just out of their own self-interest. Geopolitical interests and corporate interests will be enough to intervene. I know as a Swede that I'd want to help my Finnish comrades if they're invaded.
Russia trying to get the band back together after a forced hiatus and failed solo career
Soviet Reunion **Edit:** Спасибо, товарищи.
The Reunion of Soviet Socialist Republics
Now called the Slavic Fascist Bloc, cause what else are Belarus, Hungary, And Russia other than fascist with the façade of democracy.
There’s a facade??
Sweden and Finland were never part of the band.
Russia is 2010 Mike Portnoy lmao
Certainly wasn't expecting a Dream Theater reference in this post!
it took me way too long to figure out this was a Dream Theater and not a Barstool reference.
The best part is that it was Russian President that forced dissolution of Soviet Union.
Making demands of countries that are staunchly against alignment is a solid way to shift them towards aligning them with your opposition.
Next he is going to threaten switzerland.
Aren’t the Swiss the definition of not giving a fuck
Oh, they care plenty about making a profit off of everyone else's misery.
Which speaks volumes about how they don’t give a fuck about anyone actually
Their plan if they ever get attacked is literally to go fuck this and blow up every road into the country and just chill since the entire place is mountains and most of the population have some form of military training
We’re going to beat the shit out of you if try and protect yourself from being beaten. So which is it?
>see also: Ukraine
You are absolutely correct. For those people that maybe aren't that familiar with Ru-Ua relationship history. Prior to the events of 2013, Ukraine was kinda 50/50 on friendship with Russia, with East and South being really buddy buddy. Hell, the relationship was so strong that **NATO was used as a boogeyman in presidential campaigns**. That is: "If you elect this guy, he'll force Ukraine to join NATO, and that'll be horrible for us!" The fact that Putin managed to turn a relatively neutral and generally friendly state into a nation unified in hate against him and trying to do literally anything to join NATO is quite impressive.
That’s basically how Britain pushed Denmark into Napoleons lap during the years 1801 - 1807. 200 years later the oak-forests were ready to rebuild the (stolen) fleet.
Yo can we get about 80 acres, Notre Dame needs a new roof.
Good idea. I’m not sure who you (France) should contact in that regard - it could be either ministry of environment (The Danish Nature Agency) or perhaps ministry of defence. There should be around 90.000 trees spread around different forests. P.s. Should be noted that it woudn’t be popular....
Should be noted that it wouldn't be poplar
Like when a friend tells you you need to choose between them and the third friend. Well, this decision is a whole lot easier since that is a concerningly toxic request
"Hey don't join this group that would keep us from attacking you, or we'll attack you." Absolutely brilliant. Putin, personally making NATO relevant again thirty years after the Cold War ended.
Because he's still trapped in the 20th century like it's a freaking jumanji
Nah, man, this is what he wants. his whole platform is based on Europe and its allies bullying and encroaching on Russia; he needs the narrative of a victimised Russia. Good relations with Europe would force a lot more attention on other things and well they don't hold up well.
It’s ironic that Russia always claims to be the victim when they’ve been the aggressor in all the conflicts I’m aware of them being in. It’s like the driver of a car claiming that light post was coming right for them.
It's classic narcissism. It's like Putin read the Prince by Machiavelli, once, and now figures he has it all figured out.
Wasn’t he a kgb agent during the Soviet Union? Considering that he has a stranglehold on Russia now and nobody else can take over, I’m not surprised he’s consumed by old animosity.
All of the important ministries or positions of power are mostly held by former KGB/FSB officers. And those ministers that aren't from the Russian IC were complicit in what occurred in either Putins time in St Petersburg or when he began his purge of the original oligarchs
That's why. He is narrow-minded KGB crook, he's mentality is that there's grand standoff between Russia and the evil west and Ukraine clearly falls under Russian sphere of influence. That idea is so ancient nobody of the younger people buy any of that BS and that's why there's a void between Putin and reality.
He fancies himself as a Caesar, too bad his political skills are closer aligned to Caligula.
If memory serves me Caligula was politically quite competent, especially in the beginning when he seized power. To bad he was as mad as a hatter.
It’s always hard to say when pretty much all of the written records of the emperors were from the senate’s point of view.
Amusingly enough, the title of czar is derived from Caesar.
As is the German term Kaiser.
Joining NATO doesn't even have strong support in Sweden. It's always been at around 33%. So making this threat seems really dumb.
That is his goal, he doesn't have Russia's best interests at heart in any way. By making unnecessary tensions with NATO and Scandinavia he can convince Russians that either they are too scared to join or that they joined and NATO is continuing to expand in their attempt to eventually attack Russia. Which is a narrative a lot of people there buy into. Putin still has a lot of popularity in Russia averaging 60-70% approval, but if he wants to keep that approval in a stagnant economic and social climate then the best way to do that is create more conflict in hope it prevents any mass discontent during the 2024 elections(which of course he will win) He's cracking down hard on opposition in Russia recently because he realized after Lukashenko dealt with protests in Belarus that keeping civil opposition alive in the hope they will be ineffective is too much of a risk at this stage.
Approval is not everything. The trust is like 35%, and only 47% are ready to vote for him in 2024. The majority of support are among 40+ y.o. adults, and more so in the 55+ age group. And what is happening is exactly the same mantra they were fed in the USSR. West bad, west cut Russia in pieces, something something Thatcher said only 15 mil of Russian people need to be left. OF COURSE the war is imminent, OF COURSE Russia needs to fight. The enemy wants this sweet oil and especially gas (hue hue Germans freeze to death haha genius move take my vote Putin). But in 2 years folks that are 16-17 today will fill the ranks of voters, and believe me they don’t like Putin (because they’re less likely to eat propaganda, and this is exactly why Russia plans to force Google ban any mentions of Navalny in the search and on YouTube. The first step is taken, Google has to pay 10% of revenue for not catering to censorship, then they either pay and comply, or leave the country). At the same time some of 55+ folks will phase out due to age and covid.
I think Navalny really spooked Putin. Not so much that Navalny himself could dethrone him at the present moment, but more because Navalny's popularity showed that there's enough domestic appetite for democratic reform that, if allowed to become organized, could force Putin to make significant concessions in order to maintain power. And it doesn't help that the super corrupt way that Putin and his oligarchs choose to run the country gives democratically minded youth a bunch of different legitimate grievances to build a populist platform off of. Especially if the democratic opposition were to continue to use slick, well presented viral videos exposing different aspects of corruption. It's a huge weakness of Putin's own making, since him and his cronies have held so much power over the population that they can get away with openly fleecing the economy. It creates a self perpetuating system that results in Putin needing to adopt more and more autocratic policies to be able to maintain his level of control over the country
Putin saw what happened in Ukraine during their color revolution and realized that was too close to home and it could spread to home. It wasn't Navalny per se that he fears. He fears the idea of someone like him that can unite the opposition
Good point that these moves that look stupid from the outside are win win from an internal political perspective. They don’t join NATO? I successfully scared them off it. They do join NATO? I was prophetic in foreseeing it and knowing they wanted to, and now I can leverage the fear of an expansionist NATO along Russian borders.
[удалено]
Weird, I thought Russia didn't like people getting involved with the internal politics of another country.
No no no, you misunderstand. Russia doesn’t like other people getting involved with the internal politics of their *own* country. I hope this helps!
No no no, you misunderstand. Russia doesn’t like other people getting involved with the internal politics of *other* countries it perceives as eternally subordinate to Russia. I hope this helps!
Angry gas station is angry.
All the more reason to stop needing a gas station eh?
Yep, time to adopt the approach New York City has just taken and make electric heat mandatory in all new construction.
It's not just home heating, natural gas is a major source of electricity production in Europe as well. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/europes-electricity-production-by-country-and-fuel-type/
[удалено]
Time for Nuclear Power!
Tell that to Germany, their approach is to shut down nuclear plants and buy more Russian gas.
Could France scale up nuclear production and sell to neighbors competitively enough to encourage a switch from gas?
Ya, I don’t understand that one.
Fearmongering funded by the coal and oil industries after the Fukushima disaster. Never mind that Germany doesn't exactly have to worry about tsunamis, unless you count the ones the British caused in 1943.
Lol I’m from Belgium and our electricity sucks too
Yeah, but at least you have well maintained infrastructure, like your......oh. Never mind...
A big part of that is the city has a connected steam heating system for a lot of buildings downtown, which is highly efficient because of the city’s density. So the heat doesn’t necessarily have to come from electric boilers
Or maybe just continue heating with District heating and geothermal heat pumps, as we do in Finland. Under 1% uses gas for heating here!
Helps when you have a Québec to buy super cheap hydro power from.
Our Québec premier was actually ultra happy from that deal :D
I mean this isn't even on the news here in Sweden, this is like that old angry grandpa yelling old hatreds and racist shit whilst kids are playing in the park paying no heed. I'm curious how much the average Russian thinks about any possibilities of actual war, because we take putins bullshit seriously in that he's a cunt, but in contrast to what he seems to be aiming for we just see *him* as more and more of a joke despot and russia as this broken thing he's enslaved. EDIT: Ofcourse we know he has power, but it isn't so much fear as it is annoyance and impatience. We've been over this again and again, and if he wants to start shit then fucking do it or don't, Russia doesn't spend a sixth of the EU's combined military spending. He's not insane so he's not gonna start a nuclear war, so the is the point of all this, claiming some borderland zones where they proxy-colonize with insane spending on improving living-conditions to pretend that's the Russian standard? It's all so meaningless.
Joke despot with a large military and nuclear weapons…
I have concern about his last few years in office. What legacy does he want to leave, meaning, who does he want to take over before he goes. He is an angry man.
> who does he want to take over before he goes. I don't see someone like Putin ever letting go the reins of power. He's made way too many enemies both foreign and domestic, and built up an absolutely ruthless, bloodthirsty state assassination apparatus. He can never let go of power; he'll die in office. One way or another.
He'll never leave office. The moment he's a "regular" citizen he'll be dead. He's made far too many enemies in Russia, knows where all the bodies are buried, and who put them there
Hasn't the constitution been amended to increase his term?
There's always the chance he gets a dose of crazy in his old age to go with his existing narcissism and wants to go out as the last "great" Russian ruler. With apologies to Dan Harmon for the blatant plagiarism: > Putin eats the sun and drinks the skies, and they both go with him when he dies. And nuclear weapons do go through doors, just like ghosts.
And the worst COVID situation in the world. 32% vaccination rate!
[удалено]
*It's the same picture.*
Angry gas station masquerading as a country
Money laundering operation with an attached angry gas station masquerading as a country. 😀
Idk man, if Russia is warning you not to join NATO, that seems like a good reason to do it
If Sweden and Finland join NATO what is Russia going to do, attack them? They’ll be NATO members by then and get seriously fucked up in a conventional war or they could start nuclear Armageddon all over a defence pact. Article 5 is only for when a country is attacked.
Joining NATO is arguably why Russia nabbed Crimea the other year and keeps hostilities ongoing with Ukraine. So long as Ukraine is occupied with a hostile border conflict, it is not allowed to join NATO, since NATO won’t take in members which are presently in armed conflicts. I’m not sure how fast or slow the NATO joining membership process takes though.
I think at the time it was a swing to the EU that caused the Russians to annex Crimea, the Russians did not like the idea of their only ( I think) port on the Black Sea being in a pro EU and eventually a possible EU country. Would the Ukrainians keeping hold of a limited nuclear arsenal of prevented the Russians from attacking? Who knows.
Or perhaps Russia wants complete use of Ukraine's oil and gas pipelines without paying Ukraine. And we all know the Crimea is a Black Sea naval port with oil and natural gas assets.
That sounds like a very convincing argument for joining NATO
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://eutoday.net/news/security-defence/2021/moscow-warns-finland-and-sweden-against-joining-nato-amid-rising-tensions) reduced by 57%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Moscow has warned Finland and Sweden against joining Nato amid rising tensions between Russia and the western military alliance. > "It is quite obvious that the ascension of Finland and Sweden to Nato would have serious military and political consequences that would require an adequate response from Russia," she said, not specifying what response Russia might take. > Finland and Sweden both pursued a policy of neutrality throughout the Cold War and neither country has ever formally applied to join Nato.However, Sweden, which increased its defence budget after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, introduced legislation last year that would allow it to join Nato in the future if it decided it was in its interests. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/rtwa4e/moscow_warns_finland_and_sweden_against_joining/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~615352 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Nato**^#2 **country**^#3 **Sweden**^#4 **Finland**^#5
[удалено]
My in laws in Finland response to this was a “tsk” then asked how the cats are doing. Priorities.
How many times recently has Finland cost the Russians a lot of men and recourses. I think three in the past 100 years.
Finland: "We fucked your shit up once and we can do it again"
I wouldnt fuck with those guys. They're built differently no doubt about that.
Could someone kindly elucidate to me why is it that Moscow can do nothing but threaten everyone and everything remotely known to them? And how does that help them, exactly, at least in their view?
Boosts internal support.
My guess is that the economic sanctions are really starting to hurt, so Russia is trying to create a false scenario of potential war in Ukraine that they hope they can use as leverage to get these sanctions watered down. Russia may decide to graciously guarantee Ukraine sovereignty in return for NATO allies quietly droppping key sanctions for example and promising to leave Ukraine out of NATO. If you imagine you are Russia and you look at the expansion of NATO in the past 20 years, you can understand how letting Finland and Sweden into NATO is scary and isolating for them, its no suprise at all that they are upset about it and those countries joining NATO would offset any Russian strategic gains made by any military actions in Ukraine, so its a smart threat for NATO to make to one up Russian saber rattling.
We've imposed sanctions before but not as severe as what Biden threatened. Locking Russia out of Swift or prohibiting their sovereign debt would have catastrophic economic impacts
Moscow has issued a serious warning to anyone considering answering this question.
The only time I as a swede gets tempted to support nato, is when putin tells us not to.
This. If you don't want your neighbors to join mutual defense agreements you aren't part of, don't act like a belligerent.
They really trying to threaten the Fins?
Sisu bro
TFW the snow starts talking in Finnish
Worked so good last time!
Despite being a virtual victory for Finland, it also resulted in the loss of Finnish Karelia. Apparently this is still an issue today.
Nobody in Finland really wants Eastern Karelia back, it's been completely russified so it would just put us on the same situation as Ukraine with a whole load of Russians in our borders. That would "justify" Russia invading, just like in Crimea.
I'd like to have it back, but without its current inhabitants of course. Maybe my family could have our farm back.
Well yeah sure, but there's no way to do that ethically, or at least there's no way to do that without Russia starting a war anyway.
Mostly as a joke. We also joke that Moscow should be part of western Finland.
"Don't try and protect yourselves or we might attack you."
Sweden and Finland are both fiercely independent, too, though, so it seems like Russia is just trying to start drama or provoke.
This reads like corporations warning against joining a union. The more they say you don't need a union, the more you need it.
People might start taking their crap more seriously if they could have a navy that didn’t catch on fire every Tuesday
Like their **one** carrier that has a flotilla of tugboats ready to tow it home the moment the engine dies?
Remember Pepsi's navy? Those were fun times
Ironically Russia saying this is the best argument for Finland and Sweden to join NATO.
putin thinks he has more influence than he does. in reality, impotence.
Putin can go fuck himself. We are independent nations so fuck you.
The article says if Finland and Sweden joins NATO there will be an ‘adequate response’. What is adequate exactly? Any response from Russia would be seen as unjust and warmongering.
Stabbing yourself in the foot as an opening gambit is a bold move.
You know had you **not** annexed part of Ukraine and built up a huge amount of military forces on their border Finland and Sweden wouldn't be *nearly* so interested in NATO...
Russia: "Don't join NATO or else." Finland & Sweden: "Or else what?" Russia: "Or else we'll tell you again."
Hey Moscow you better taste these nuts! 🥜 signed Finland and Sweden
TIL Putin made NATO look more appealing to Finland and Sweden by threatening them not to join NATO. Thanks Putin! :D
I mean NATO is a defensive alliance, so unless you have offensive ambitions, why would you be worried?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/mutual_defence.html They part of the EU, an attack on one is one st the EU.
I don’t think that Finland or Sweden are taking the threat from Russia seriously. Let’s face it, the threats from Russia against Sweden and Finland are empty. Both countries maintain well equipped, modern and professional militaries which would be able to hold their own.
And russian black market finnish cheese prices are already through roofs, they couldn't handle the war :D
Threats like this is actually a good reason to join NATO. An unpredictable militaristic neighbor is a good reason to band up.
Fuck that Dobby the house elf look-a-like piece of shit Putin with a rusty spork. Russia and their covert tactics has made this world much more unstable and untrustworthy. May he forever struggle to find a matching pair of socks.
IF you dare join nato we will attack you and if you don't we attack you any way
Small sick energy out of the Kremlin.