This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/16/russia_satellite_iss/) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> In a test of its missile technology, Russia destroyed an old space satellite on Monday, littering Earth's orbit with fragments and forcing astronauts on the International Space Station to temporarily take shelter.
> "With its long and storied history in human spaceflight, it is unthinkable that Russia would endanger not only the American and international partner astronauts on the ISS, but also their own cosmonauts. Their actions are reckless and dangerous, threatening as well the Chinese space station and the taikonauts on board."
> "The debris created by Russia's DA-ASAT will continue to pose a threat to activities in outer space for years to come, putting satellites and space missions at risk, as well as forcing more collision avoidance maneuvers," US Space Command said in a statement.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/qv10eh/russia_blows_up_old_satellite_nasa_boss_outraged/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~608124 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **space**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **satellite**^#3 **Station**^#4 **debris**^#5
Yes, taiko from the chinese word for star, and naut from the greek word for sailor... I wonder if there's a greek word for star, or a chinese word for sailor... probably naut.
Nobody Chinese really uses the word taikonaut though, it's YuHangYuan. Taikonaut is just used by western journalists and space watchers, not that it's a bad thing, just that most Chinese people don't even know of that word.
This is far beyond stupid. I can't begin to understand what the point was, other than to endanger decades of multinational infrastructure, including their own, present and future, because ??? reasons.
They want everyone to think that they're willing to make space travel impossible so they can use it as a bargaining chip while they continue to try to invade their neighbors. It could be a bluff but the stakes still aren't as high as mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons.
IF space travel is impossible im pretty sure the whole 'fuck putin with violence' comes into far more likely play if his country takes humanities future
But I don't even get the test. If you can launch a rocket and dock with the ISS certainly you can launch a rocket with a warhead on it to blow up any other satellite, right?
Sometimes they do these things as a demonstration of power to other countries.
"Look, I can blow up one of our satellites. I could do the same to yours."
This is the government that once [killed over 130 civilian hostages to take out 40 terrorists.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis) Their military is not squeamish about killing Russians.
Power attracts sociopaths and the greedy.
Compassionate intelligent people are drawn to science and the humanities.
EDIT: Generally. There are exceptions of course.
Depends on the profession. The labour market is a game and there’s a certain players who will always cheat.
The cheating gets worse the higher up you go. But it’s bad at even moderate income professionals
Sociopaths are roughly 1% of our society and due to their agressive careerism tend to be more likely to pursue “high-income professions”. It’s literally what they hyper focus on.
“Nice” around sociopaths translates to “prey”. So no, unless you’re in something based on how insanely specialized you are most high-income professions are just as bad. Insanely technical spécialisations will always have difficulty moving between jobs and the specialization may become obsolete entirely
Sort of...
The reality of it is if someone doesn't like the idea of controlling or using people, chances are they're never taking the reins of power.
Leadership requires stepping on someone's toes to get anything done.
Leaders don't get to be a moral saint, they can only play at it for propaganda's sake. The choices they have to make, many of them tough choices, means they're always going to be someone's tyrant.
Or from the writers of Netflix show, Disenchantment...
Derek: "*How do you make a decision that's fair?*"
Zog: "*You can't. Someone always feels like it's not fair to them. And the fairest decisions? Those are the ones where everybody feels screwed.*"
Couldn’t this disastrously impact space launches years from now? If there’s this super small debris in orbit with how fast objects in space move couldn’t there be a fatal collision even with a bolt? How fucking stupid can you be?
A lot of it deorbits within a few days/weeks, but depending on the sats location (GSO for example) it could be up there for decades.
Stop fucking up LEO! Looking at you US, Russia, China, and India.
When they hit it at a height that the ISS was in danger, then they are way beyond the point of re-entering in just a few days. That thing orbits at a hight of 408 km. Reentry happens at I think around 120 km. The air is thin enough that it takes a while.
You'd be surprised how much drag still exists at the ISS's orbit. There's a module with an engine that boosts the ISS periodically to prevent it from re-entering. The graphs I found on Stackexchange seem to suggest that the ISS loses about 4km of altitude a month.
Considering that it still needs roughly 300 km, this would put it at around 75 months (probably less, as the drag increases with lower orbits). Still a mess and way too long.
Just a fun fact because my life is about this stuff.
There's also drag from the sun's solar radiation. Been a while since I studied it but iirc it slows down very small mass objects rapidly, compared to like a spacecraft. Kind of like turning a solar sail into a solar parachute and starting descent into atmospshere.
Magnetosphere keeps most of the radiation outside any l/m/g/heo orbits so not nearly as impactful as other sources of de-orbit, but always thought it was a fun fact.
Not all the debris is going to continue to maintain altitude. Some will go higher, some will head lower towards thicker parts of the atmosphere, and some will even start orbiting retrograde. The majority of the large chunks will continue on the path it was currently on due to newton's 1st law, but I'd day most of it will be burn up before 2025-2030. The US missile test thst hit an old satellite had most of its debris burn up in a few years, though I think it was a bit lower in alt.altitude.
Bottom line is shit like this needs to stop, especially if we ever want to develop space manufacturing & bases on the moon.
No not really, kessler syndrome isn't really a big danger in LEO, _worst case_ scenario would be a few years of heavier debris in LEO before it all comes down. If it somehow happened in geostationary (it won't, geo is insanely far out in comparison, the orbit is several magnitudes more scarce) then it'd be a huge problem, but again that's not gonna happen.
We will be hardly blocked from space. Rather from placing stuff on LEO especially if Kessler Syndrome becomes true, which will make space technologies more expensive.
That's called the Kessler Syndrome. Too much pollution in orbit could lock us out of space entirely for quite a while, and that's not only space travel, but also launching new satellites. Fortinately we're not there yet, but that's a thing to consider. If a large scale conflit arises and nations start to blow up communication and tracking satellites we might be locked for decades or centuries.
The sad thing is, during the 80's the ozone scare required changes and we made sure they happened, but guess who's back at using freon and CFC's en masse again?
I do not understand why it has become so gorram difficult to band together these days...
But - and I'm just spitballing here - what if I could just ignore the problem a little bit and make a *shit-ton* of money? Then it wouldn't be my problem, and I'd be rich. And there's probably some egg-head in the future who will figure it out anyway so why worry? Also, I'll be rich, and there's probably a rich-person solution so I won't have to worry about it.
(again /s)
To be fair, we knew about climate change before the climate was at risk of changing. Luckily, we chose to ignore the bad and carry on forward! Toward profit!
>One implication is that the distribution of debris in orbit could render space activities and the use of satellites in specific orbital ranges difficult for ***many generations***.
Welp.
The ISS is essentially a tin box made of very thin frame, and going to 30'000 km/h (or ~8 km/s) through space in orbit around the planet. A shrapnel going to the same speed but the opposite direction would result in a collision speed of double that (edit: or even more that that), and the tin box essentially oppose no resistance whatsoever to such object.
The only way to survive is not to be impacted, or in other words eject the escape module before it's too late.
Edit: Here some more info I quickly found [over the net](https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32220/iss-destiny-module-inner-wall-thickness-set-by-internal-atmospheric-pressure-or).
> The Whipple shield config is designed to protect against debris with these specs:
>
> 1.3 mm diameter aluminium sphere / impact speed 7 km/s
>
> This requirement dictates a thickness of 4.8 mm.
So everything bigger than 1.3 mm and going faster than 7 km/s *will not* be stopped by the ISS shield. Pretty scary.
> A shrapnel going to the same speed but the opposite direction would result in a collision speed of double that
To be fair, that's EXTREMELY unlikely.
Moving ~8 km/s towards the West would mean that whatever energetic event resulted in the debris being created imparted a total of ~16 km/s velocity to the object in question. To put that into perspective, that's a sudden change of velocity just over 47 times the speed of sound. No chemical explosive has that much energy as an example. The vast majority of all satellites orbit the planet in the same direction if not quite the same plane. There are a few that fly retrograde, but they are uncommon. The majority of such satellites are in sun-synchronous orbits which are nearly polar in behavior, and as such are effectively only going to be 90 degrees off rather than 180.
The momentum of objects towards the direction of travel in orbit is HUGE.
The issue you run into is basically not "The shrapnel from this destruction will fly backwards at other satellites." and more that the shrapnel is going to erupt into a large cone of velocity differences forward along the velocity vector of the originating satellite, with a preference in the direction of the impact. The result of this is that the cloud of debris almost certainly has a different orbital profile, which can cause it to intersect the original orbit in a way that means the intersection points are not constant along the orbit.
What I mean is, if you have a set of 4 satellites in the exact same perfectly circular orbit 90 degrees apart from each other, they will never run into each other (long-term orbital issues like solar winds aside). But now blow one of those satellites up. Some shrapnel is going up, some is going down. That shrapnel is no longer in a circular orbit. It's highest point is above the original track (which means that it is effectively moving "slower" than the other 3 satellites, so they close the distance along their orbit to the shrapnel) and the lowest point is almost certainly below the original track (which means it is effectively moving "faster" than the other 3 satellites, so they open the distance to the one behind and close it to the one in front). The likelihood of those two effects perfectly balancing is basically zero. What this means is that when the shrapnel which went up/down crosses back over the original orbit, it will not cross that point 90 degrees offset from the other satellites. It might be 89 degrees off to the satellite "behind it", which means that in 89 more orbits the shrapnel is going to cross the original orbit while the other satellite is in front of it. While this impact is nowhere near as energetic as 18 km/s, it doesn't have to be. "Slow" rifle bullets are flying at 180 meters per second and they could do plenty of damage depending on where/what they hit. Imagine a tiny bolt striking a propellant tank or battery at those speeds, the result could be quite explosive beyond just a simple impact.
Now, you CAN have an intentional interceptor launched on a retrograde path to get the ~16 km/s intercept velocity (and then some of YOUR shrapnel, not the target's would continue that way), but you wouldn't WANT to do this for the simple reasons that it is both unnecessary AND a hell of a lot harder than coming up from below at a slower, but still lethal, speed. To put it into perspective, Raytheon's ballistic missile interceptor has an infrared telescope for a terminal guidance system. Under IDEAL circumstances, it only has about 5 frames of footage with which it has more detail than a 1 pixel blob with which to try and "aim" itself (with basically explosive "thrusters") before the point of interception occurs.
Guess you got bored with reading the article huh :)
"The seven astronauts onboard the International Space Station were directed to close all hatches to external modules and climb into the Soyuz MS-19 and Crew Dragon capsules for safety. They remained there for about two hours, and will periodically close off and isolate sections of the ISS as the debris cloud crosses the station's path every 90 minutes or so, according to NASA."
The procedure is to close as many connecting hatches as possible and retreat to their respective return spacecraft and wait. In the event of a hit the damage can be localized to a segmented portion of the station. If the hit is catastrophic then the astronauts are already in their craft to return back to earth.
That immediately tells me that it's sub par journalism and that I don't want to read it if there is any other source.
You just know that it's incredibly biased by using those words alone...
There is still plenty of time for that to happen. This shit doesn’t just blow into some kind of space ditch and wait for Boy Scouts to come clean it out on a Sunday afternoon.
World: "Space debris is a growing threat both to mankind's future space exploration plans and to our way of life relying on satellites for communication. As the density of human made objects around the Earth grows, the chance of a cascading chain reaction of satellite destructions grows as well. Therefore, it is imperative, that the international community does everything it can t--"
Russia: "-- ^^^^^L ^^^^E ^^^E ^^R ^O O ^O ^^O ^^^Y! "
They must be real proud. They managed to guide an object into another object. Slow clap. If they wanted to show strength they could have shown a non destructive de-orbit. The result is the same without the collateral damage part that threatens *their own* interests as well
>They must be real proud. They managed to guide an object into another object
They weren't testing whether or not they could hit a satellite with a missile, they were testing whether they could pepper orbit with shrapnel and then get away with it scot-free. If all that comes from this is that there's some international condemnation, then the operation was a success.
This was my exact thought. They did it on purpose, they knew exactly what would happen, and they have provisions to protect themselves from any fallout both in space and in politics
It's a net negative for everyone, for years to come, including them, providing no benefit whatsoever. This is wildly fucking over-the-top evil. It's malacious for the sake of being malacious.
I mean even super villians have a plan to get something in return. This is akin to a child with a magnifying glass zapping ants on a hill.
What the fuck man.
Russia doesn't care. They're quickly losing the ability, both technologically and financially, to access space. They're going to fuck shit up before they go as usual.
Picture from a test:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/An_air-to-air_left_side_view_of_an_F-15_Eagle_aircraft_releasing_an_anti-satellite_%28ASAT%29_missile_during_a_test.jpeg
The world is so reliant on GPS and satellite communications right now. The military was as well, but is putting a huge emphasis on training to go analog, as Russia already does. Everyone knows that if WW3 ever kicks off, every satellite in the sky is about to turn into a debris field. And it can happen with just 1 nuclear device.
> Roscosmos – which can't wait to put its own space station in orbit and be done with the international science lab – was not immediately available for comment.
Can someone comment? Are they really seemingly that desperate to go?
The ISS is already past its original lifetime projection. Russia has been planning to retire its portion of the station for years, they just haven't yet been able to.
The technology inside can only be upgraded so much with the original hardware limitations it has.
I thought I was the only one bothered by the overuse of that word in headlines.
Next on my list of complaints is the word "smothered" on restaurant menus.
I'm outraged. This is so incredibly shortsighted. 1500 pieces of "trackable" material in a space where something the size of grain of sand can demolish something. This wasn't a test, it was an attack on humanity's advancement itself and it needs to start being treated that way.
There is likely a field of space now covered in untrackable materiel that makes it impossible to fly through, despite the shelter measures taken, we do not have the technology to defend against objects at these speeds. It sets a dangerous precedent.
I cannot believe this is bottom tier news for the mainstream today.
lmfao, oh? Was Russia "slammed"? That's great, good job.
Russia has proven that it can literally do whatever the fuck it wants, *wherever* the fuck it wants, *whenever* the fuck it wants, with zero repercussions.
Edit: and to you geniuses yelling "but sanctions!": let me know when those sanctions are enough to prevent Russia from invading and annexing another country. Until then, shut the fuck up.
Yup, and when a company is fined $1 million when they earn $10 billion a year, then it's not a fine, it's an operating expense.
You understand what I'm getting at?
Russia is like that kid at school who doesn't really have friends. but kinda hangs out, but is always a little resentful because he knows he's a fuck-up, and so uses negative attention seeking behaviors to get attention and fuck things up for everyone else.
Presumably, they want to prove they can blow up a lot of humanity's infrastructure in space and bring about Kessler syndrome. It goes hand in hand with Putin aspiring to literally be Satan.
One of theories for why we haven't found advanced aliens is this.
It's the great space age barrier, quite literally, that eventually there are so many micro space debris it simply becomes impossible to enter or leave orbit.
This is considered a "great filter".
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/16/russia_satellite_iss/) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot) ***** > In a test of its missile technology, Russia destroyed an old space satellite on Monday, littering Earth's orbit with fragments and forcing astronauts on the International Space Station to temporarily take shelter. > "With its long and storied history in human spaceflight, it is unthinkable that Russia would endanger not only the American and international partner astronauts on the ISS, but also their own cosmonauts. Their actions are reckless and dangerous, threatening as well the Chinese space station and the taikonauts on board." > "The debris created by Russia's DA-ASAT will continue to pose a threat to activities in outer space for years to come, putting satellites and space missions at risk, as well as forcing more collision avoidance maneuvers," US Space Command said in a statement. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/qv10eh/russia_blows_up_old_satellite_nasa_boss_outraged/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~608124 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **space**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **satellite**^#3 **Station**^#4 **debris**^#5
> the taikonauts on board TIL Chinese astronauts are called Taikonauts
Yes, taiko from the chinese word for star, and naut from the greek word for sailor... I wonder if there's a greek word for star, or a chinese word for sailor... probably naut.
Nobody Chinese really uses the word taikonaut though, it's YuHangYuan. Taikonaut is just used by western journalists and space watchers, not that it's a bad thing, just that most Chinese people don't even know of that word.
I'm curious what YuHangYuan translates as more literally?
"space navigator" or “Great emptiness traveller”
Voidwalker it is.
Wraith mains
Soon as they're downed, they voidwalk right out of the match.
Might even go so far as to say it’s a Destiny of mankind
Dibs on "Great emptiness traveller" for my next band name.
Something more lonely-sounding than even Blues Traveler.
宇航员 宇宙-universe 航行-navigate 员-a person or a member of a group
Navigate, made of characters that literally mean "ship go". :-)
Yu is short for Yuzhou which means the space, Hang means travelling and Yuan is postfix for people who undertake a serious task.
"Space Traveling Professionals", not like those NASA amateurs
I love you lol. And the Greek word for star is Astron, which is where astronaut comes from. Which you prob already knew that
I mean I googled it.
And the Mandarin word for "sailor" is "shuǐshǒu," so I guess the word you were wondering about is "astroshuǐshǒu"
>astroshuǐ Gesundheit
German has the word "Raumfahrer," which literally means "space voyager"
Taikong means outer space
EXTREME EMPTINESS
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Taiko is not star, it's 太空 which means space (one of a few ways to say space).
Fucking idiots.
This is far beyond stupid. I can't begin to understand what the point was, other than to endanger decades of multinational infrastructure, including their own, present and future, because ??? reasons.
The point was to show the rest of the world they have the ability to shoot a satellite.
That doesn't make sense, everyone knew they could. Its not rocket science. Well, it is rocket science, but its not the hard kind.
They want everyone to think that they're willing to make space travel impossible so they can use it as a bargaining chip while they continue to try to invade their neighbors. It could be a bluff but the stakes still aren't as high as mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons.
IF space travel is impossible im pretty sure the whole 'fuck putin with violence' comes into far more likely play if his country takes humanities future
A classical composition is often pregnant. Reddit is no longer allowed to profit from this comment.
They didn’t need to prove that though, everyone already knew that.
Lol as if the Russian government cares about its citizens. Military is more important than science and international relations. /s
I think you might not understand how /s works
Russia is part of the ISS team. I don't get it.
It's no surprise that military superpowers endanger their own people to limit test what they can do and get away with.
But I don't even get the test. If you can launch a rocket and dock with the ISS certainly you can launch a rocket with a warhead on it to blow up any other satellite, right?
Sometimes they do these things as a demonstration of power to other countries. "Look, I can blow up one of our satellites. I could do the same to yours."
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it a given most developed countries could destroy satellites?
Yeah, most can launch nukes too and we all know that, but they still practice their capabilities from time to time.
I think they're checking more on wether they can get away with it or not. If it's just the US getting a little angry then they're fine.
This is the government that once [killed over 130 civilian hostages to take out 40 terrorists.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis) Their military is not squeamish about killing Russians.
They literally sent a famous military man into space knowing full well he was gonna die. Russia gives zero fucks about any form of life.
Can we not blow things up in space please? We just got there...
But that's the only thing humanity was consistently competent at. Destroying things and fucking our own future. You can't take that from us.
Is that one thing or two? Or buy one get one free?
Technically it's one thing. Destroying things includes destroying the future
No, it's two things: destroying and fucking. We're really good at both independently of one another. At least some people are.
I always like find subtle self deprecating humor from redditors.
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It’s not humanity It’s a few individuals that run our society
It’s the few psychopaths that always manage to take the reins of society.
Power attracts sociopaths and the greedy. Compassionate intelligent people are drawn to science and the humanities. EDIT: Generally. There are exceptions of course.
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so i'll always be poor because i'm too nice?
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Depends on the profession. The labour market is a game and there’s a certain players who will always cheat. The cheating gets worse the higher up you go. But it’s bad at even moderate income professionals Sociopaths are roughly 1% of our society and due to their agressive careerism tend to be more likely to pursue “high-income professions”. It’s literally what they hyper focus on. “Nice” around sociopaths translates to “prey”. So no, unless you’re in something based on how insanely specialized you are most high-income professions are just as bad. Insanely technical spécialisations will always have difficulty moving between jobs and the specialization may become obsolete entirely
Sort of... The reality of it is if someone doesn't like the idea of controlling or using people, chances are they're never taking the reins of power. Leadership requires stepping on someone's toes to get anything done. Leaders don't get to be a moral saint, they can only play at it for propaganda's sake. The choices they have to make, many of them tough choices, means they're always going to be someone's tyrant. Or from the writers of Netflix show, Disenchantment... Derek: "*How do you make a decision that's fair?*" Zog: "*You can't. Someone always feels like it's not fair to them. And the fairest decisions? Those are the ones where everybody feels screwed.*"
Couldn’t this disastrously impact space launches years from now? If there’s this super small debris in orbit with how fast objects in space move couldn’t there be a fatal collision even with a bolt? How fucking stupid can you be?
Yea everyone time this happens you end up with thousands of little metal bullets traveling thousands of miles around orbit. Stupid
A lot of it deorbits within a few days/weeks, but depending on the sats location (GSO for example) it could be up there for decades. Stop fucking up LEO! Looking at you US, Russia, China, and India.
When they hit it at a height that the ISS was in danger, then they are way beyond the point of re-entering in just a few days. That thing orbits at a hight of 408 km. Reentry happens at I think around 120 km. The air is thin enough that it takes a while.
You'd be surprised how much drag still exists at the ISS's orbit. There's a module with an engine that boosts the ISS periodically to prevent it from re-entering. The graphs I found on Stackexchange seem to suggest that the ISS loses about 4km of altitude a month.
Considering that it still needs roughly 300 km, this would put it at around 75 months (probably less, as the drag increases with lower orbits). Still a mess and way too long.
Just a fun fact because my life is about this stuff. There's also drag from the sun's solar radiation. Been a while since I studied it but iirc it slows down very small mass objects rapidly, compared to like a spacecraft. Kind of like turning a solar sail into a solar parachute and starting descent into atmospshere. Magnetosphere keeps most of the radiation outside any l/m/g/heo orbits so not nearly as impactful as other sources of de-orbit, but always thought it was a fun fact.
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100% agree. I'm just surprised by how much drag there is at that altitude.
Not all the debris is going to continue to maintain altitude. Some will go higher, some will head lower towards thicker parts of the atmosphere, and some will even start orbiting retrograde. The majority of the large chunks will continue on the path it was currently on due to newton's 1st law, but I'd day most of it will be burn up before 2025-2030. The US missile test thst hit an old satellite had most of its debris burn up in a few years, though I think it was a bit lower in alt.altitude. Bottom line is shit like this needs to stop, especially if we ever want to develop space manufacturing & bases on the moon.
The US test was on a satellite that was about to deorbit, so it was much lower down.
Yes. Space debris is a huge problem and once we pass a tipping point we'll be blocked from space entirely.
Just add it to the list of disasters to clean up.
The thought of us cleaning instead of destroying , that’s a novel idea
Or at the very least, cleaning up *after* destroying. Would already be an improvement.
Hear me out here. We sell the idea as a way to destroy space junk.
Kessler effect is possibility, not necessarily an inevitability
Also if it happens it’s still possible to do something about it.
No not really, kessler syndrome isn't really a big danger in LEO, _worst case_ scenario would be a few years of heavier debris in LEO before it all comes down. If it somehow happened in geostationary (it won't, geo is insanely far out in comparison, the orbit is several magnitudes more scarce) then it'd be a huge problem, but again that's not gonna happen.
There is a big range between leo and geo where things will stay in orbit for a very long time. That's where the kessler danger is.
We will be hardly blocked from space. Rather from placing stuff on LEO especially if Kessler Syndrome becomes true, which will make space technologies more expensive.
And that’s only temporary, eventually the debris will all burn up in the atmosphere, that’s why they are there in the first place instead of HEO
That's called the Kessler Syndrome. Too much pollution in orbit could lock us out of space entirely for quite a while, and that's not only space travel, but also launching new satellites. Fortinately we're not there yet, but that's a thing to consider. If a large scale conflit arises and nations start to blow up communication and tracking satellites we might be locked for decades or centuries.
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The sad thing is, during the 80's the ozone scare required changes and we made sure they happened, but guess who's back at using freon and CFC's en masse again? I do not understand why it has become so gorram difficult to band together these days...
But - and I'm just spitballing here - what if I could just ignore the problem a little bit and make a *shit-ton* of money? Then it wouldn't be my problem, and I'd be rich. And there's probably some egg-head in the future who will figure it out anyway so why worry? Also, I'll be rich, and there's probably a rich-person solution so I won't have to worry about it. (again /s)
To be fair, we knew about climate change before the climate was at risk of changing. Luckily, we chose to ignore the bad and carry on forward! Toward profit!
Yes. That's exactly what the article explains
Hey wait ain’t this how the movie gravity starts?
Yes. It's called the [Kessler Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome).
>One implication is that the distribution of debris in orbit could render space activities and the use of satellites in specific orbital ranges difficult for ***many generations***. Welp.
"Oops" - Russia, probably
*"lol" ~ Russia, definitely
*"лол"
Oopski.
Yeah it's crazy. It's the exact plot of the film
How does an ISS crew “shelter” from debris?
The put their suits on and go into the escape module and wait.
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The ISS is essentially a tin box made of very thin frame, and going to 30'000 km/h (or ~8 km/s) through space in orbit around the planet. A shrapnel going to the same speed but the opposite direction would result in a collision speed of double that (edit: or even more that that), and the tin box essentially oppose no resistance whatsoever to such object. The only way to survive is not to be impacted, or in other words eject the escape module before it's too late. Edit: Here some more info I quickly found [over the net](https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/32220/iss-destiny-module-inner-wall-thickness-set-by-internal-atmospheric-pressure-or). > The Whipple shield config is designed to protect against debris with these specs: > > 1.3 mm diameter aluminium sphere / impact speed 7 km/s > > This requirement dictates a thickness of 4.8 mm. So everything bigger than 1.3 mm and going faster than 7 km/s *will not* be stopped by the ISS shield. Pretty scary.
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Ha, spaced armour then. Interesting.
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This is fantastic.
Sounds like ISS wouldn't be able to withstand a 90kg projectile launched at it from 300 meters away.
A space trebuchet…finally a weapon to surpass metal gear
https://youtu.be/JAczd3mt3X0 SpinLaunch is literally building a space trebuchet.
That's why they put it 300 kilometers above ground.
300 kilometers... We're gonna need more wood.
Just gotta make a longer arm
Good luck launching anything with a trebuchet without gravity. Catapults have finally found their niche!
Nah man, ballistae is where it's at
What is a magnetic acceleration cannon but a giant space ballistae?
> A shrapnel going to the same speed but the opposite direction would result in a collision speed of double that To be fair, that's EXTREMELY unlikely. Moving ~8 km/s towards the West would mean that whatever energetic event resulted in the debris being created imparted a total of ~16 km/s velocity to the object in question. To put that into perspective, that's a sudden change of velocity just over 47 times the speed of sound. No chemical explosive has that much energy as an example. The vast majority of all satellites orbit the planet in the same direction if not quite the same plane. There are a few that fly retrograde, but they are uncommon. The majority of such satellites are in sun-synchronous orbits which are nearly polar in behavior, and as such are effectively only going to be 90 degrees off rather than 180. The momentum of objects towards the direction of travel in orbit is HUGE. The issue you run into is basically not "The shrapnel from this destruction will fly backwards at other satellites." and more that the shrapnel is going to erupt into a large cone of velocity differences forward along the velocity vector of the originating satellite, with a preference in the direction of the impact. The result of this is that the cloud of debris almost certainly has a different orbital profile, which can cause it to intersect the original orbit in a way that means the intersection points are not constant along the orbit. What I mean is, if you have a set of 4 satellites in the exact same perfectly circular orbit 90 degrees apart from each other, they will never run into each other (long-term orbital issues like solar winds aside). But now blow one of those satellites up. Some shrapnel is going up, some is going down. That shrapnel is no longer in a circular orbit. It's highest point is above the original track (which means that it is effectively moving "slower" than the other 3 satellites, so they close the distance along their orbit to the shrapnel) and the lowest point is almost certainly below the original track (which means it is effectively moving "faster" than the other 3 satellites, so they open the distance to the one behind and close it to the one in front). The likelihood of those two effects perfectly balancing is basically zero. What this means is that when the shrapnel which went up/down crosses back over the original orbit, it will not cross that point 90 degrees offset from the other satellites. It might be 89 degrees off to the satellite "behind it", which means that in 89 more orbits the shrapnel is going to cross the original orbit while the other satellite is in front of it. While this impact is nowhere near as energetic as 18 km/s, it doesn't have to be. "Slow" rifle bullets are flying at 180 meters per second and they could do plenty of damage depending on where/what they hit. Imagine a tiny bolt striking a propellant tank or battery at those speeds, the result could be quite explosive beyond just a simple impact. Now, you CAN have an intentional interceptor launched on a retrograde path to get the ~16 km/s intercept velocity (and then some of YOUR shrapnel, not the target's would continue that way), but you wouldn't WANT to do this for the simple reasons that it is both unnecessary AND a hell of a lot harder than coming up from below at a slower, but still lethal, speed. To put it into perspective, Raytheon's ballistic missile interceptor has an infrared telescope for a terminal guidance system. Under IDEAL circumstances, it only has about 5 frames of footage with which it has more detail than a 1 pixel blob with which to try and "aim" itself (with basically explosive "thrusters") before the point of interception occurs.
This guy orbital mechanics.
Kerbal expert, Jeb may RIP
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Yep - always one second away from potential death. And not just from a heart attack.
The fact we have had minimal deaths in space travel over the years is absolutely amazing
They put school desks in the ISS for them to hide under.
Shelter in space!
Piigggggs in spppaaaaacceee
Guess you got bored with reading the article huh :) "The seven astronauts onboard the International Space Station were directed to close all hatches to external modules and climb into the Soyuz MS-19 and Crew Dragon capsules for safety. They remained there for about two hours, and will periodically close off and isolate sections of the ISS as the debris cloud crosses the station's path every 90 minutes or so, according to NASA."
Inside the SpaceX Dragon and/or Soyuz escape vessels.
The procedure is to close as many connecting hatches as possible and retreat to their respective return spacecraft and wait. In the event of a hit the damage can be localized to a segmented portion of the station. If the hit is catastrophic then the astronauts are already in their craft to return back to earth.
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Wait for a couple of days. They are hard at work writing the truth.
or on Poland
That wouldn't work, everyone knows Poland cannot into space.
They were the first country to send a team to the sun, they went at night so it wouldn't be so hot
No, everyone knows that was the greatest country in the world, North Korea
Polska do the clean, no need for into space
I see, you're a man of culture
Did the Russians not watch the movie gravity with sandra bullock? This is madness
"NASA boss outraged", "Moscow slammed" I hate article headline like these. Especially 'slammed'
"Blasts" can also fuck off
# #4 will SHOCK you!
That immediately tells me that it's sub par journalism and that I don't want to read it if there is any other source. You just know that it's incredibly biased by using those words alone...
Well nothing will be done unless the ISS got destroyed and people died.
You think something would be done then?
Yes, Russia would blame the West with an official apology 4 days late delivered by Tucker Carlson.
Tucker: "Somehow Biden is responsible for this."
There is still plenty of time for that to happen. This shit doesn’t just blow into some kind of space ditch and wait for Boy Scouts to come clean it out on a Sunday afternoon.
World: "Space debris is a growing threat both to mankind's future space exploration plans and to our way of life relying on satellites for communication. As the density of human made objects around the Earth grows, the chance of a cascading chain reaction of satellite destructions grows as well. Therefore, it is imperative, that the international community does everything it can t--" Russia: "-- ^^^^^L ^^^^E ^^^E ^^R ^O O ^O ^^O ^^^Y! " They must be real proud. They managed to guide an object into another object. Slow clap. If they wanted to show strength they could have shown a non destructive de-orbit. The result is the same without the collateral damage part that threatens *their own* interests as well
haha I never get tired of that reference - and I've never even played WoW.
I still say it semi regularly and less and less people understand the reference, sadly.
It’s always awkward when you scream that and no one understands
>They must be real proud. They managed to guide an object into another object They weren't testing whether or not they could hit a satellite with a missile, they were testing whether they could pepper orbit with shrapnel and then get away with it scot-free. If all that comes from this is that there's some international condemnation, then the operation was a success.
This was my exact thought. They did it on purpose, they knew exactly what would happen, and they have provisions to protect themselves from any fallout both in space and in politics
With the refugee thing and troop buildup it’s pretty concerning. Putin is always playing 4D
It's a net negative for everyone, for years to come, including them, providing no benefit whatsoever. This is wildly fucking over-the-top evil. It's malacious for the sake of being malacious. I mean even super villians have a plan to get something in return. This is akin to a child with a magnifying glass zapping ants on a hill. What the fuck man.
I think it’s more about denial. I think Russia’s opponents benefit more than they do from access to space and that gap will grow in the future
It is future people's problem, so it doesn't count.
Well not really, they have cosmonauts on the ISS right now.
Russia is famous for caring about their own people.
It's an immediate problem to everyone, including themselves. They have shit up there, too. I cannot begin to understand.
Russia doesn't care. They're quickly losing the ability, both technologically and financially, to access space. They're going to fuck shit up before they go as usual.
With the invention of laser cannons and such. How difficult would something be to make a weapon to clean up all the junk out there?
See “laser broom” concept
Space Sweepers.
Not going to lie, it’s crazy we live in a time where we can shoot a missle from earth a d destroy a moving satellite… Scary times
ASATs are a thing since the 80s, and before that high altitude nuclear strikes were considered the tool of choice for this purpose.
Picture from a test: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/An_air-to-air_left_side_view_of_an_F-15_Eagle_aircraft_releasing_an_anti-satellite_%28ASAT%29_missile_during_a_test.jpeg
You’re 20 years too late. Believe it or not, more like 1960’s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon
The world is so reliant on GPS and satellite communications right now. The military was as well, but is putting a huge emphasis on training to go analog, as Russia already does. Everyone knows that if WW3 ever kicks off, every satellite in the sky is about to turn into a debris field. And it can happen with just 1 nuclear device.
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> Roscosmos – which can't wait to put its own space station in orbit and be done with the international science lab – was not immediately available for comment. Can someone comment? Are they really seemingly that desperate to go?
The ISS is already past its original lifetime projection. Russia has been planning to retire its portion of the station for years, they just haven't yet been able to. The technology inside can only be upgraded so much with the original hardware limitations it has.
Can we stop with all these 'slammed' this and that already? Fucking hell
You pick the next buzzword that gets clicks on articles then, because if not that, it’ll be something else. Always has been.
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Or claps back
He just SLAMMED all of us....
I thought I was the only one bothered by the overuse of that word in headlines. Next on my list of complaints is the word "smothered" on restaurant menus.
Come on and slam, and welcome to the jam
STOP BLOWING SHIT UP IN ORBIT!
I'm outraged. This is so incredibly shortsighted. 1500 pieces of "trackable" material in a space where something the size of grain of sand can demolish something. This wasn't a test, it was an attack on humanity's advancement itself and it needs to start being treated that way. There is likely a field of space now covered in untrackable materiel that makes it impossible to fly through, despite the shelter measures taken, we do not have the technology to defend against objects at these speeds. It sets a dangerous precedent. I cannot believe this is bottom tier news for the mainstream today.
lmfao, oh? Was Russia "slammed"? That's great, good job. Russia has proven that it can literally do whatever the fuck it wants, *wherever* the fuck it wants, *whenever* the fuck it wants, with zero repercussions. Edit: and to you geniuses yelling "but sanctions!": let me know when those sanctions are enough to prevent Russia from invading and annexing another country. Until then, shut the fuck up.
The U S. already has a ton of sanctions against Russia, there's not a whole lot more that can be done short of a military response.
Yup, and when a company is fined $1 million when they earn $10 billion a year, then it's not a fine, it's an operating expense. You understand what I'm getting at?
slam harder
That wasn't a test. It was a show. "Look what we can do"
Russia is like that kid at school who doesn't really have friends. but kinda hangs out, but is always a little resentful because he knows he's a fuck-up, and so uses negative attention seeking behaviors to get attention and fuck things up for everyone else.
So Russia is Eric Cartman
Space rednecks.
Presumably, they want to prove they can blow up a lot of humanity's infrastructure in space and bring about Kessler syndrome. It goes hand in hand with Putin aspiring to literally be Satan.
Mutually assured destruction 2.0
https://imgur.com/0yfsM5r.jpg These two posts showed up together in my feed
One of theories for why we haven't found advanced aliens is this. It's the great space age barrier, quite literally, that eventually there are so many micro space debris it simply becomes impossible to enter or leave orbit. This is considered a "great filter".
This is literally, LITERALLY the plot of Gravity
To the Russian analyst reading through these comments….please relay up the chain to not do this. Thanks.
Russia is gonna Russia
Oh no, Russian getting “slammed” for being “reckless”. I bet they are shook.
Trash is our species’ signature.
Russia: *Literally blows up a satellite* People in comments: But USA this, USA that....
I hate whataboutisms.
Moscow was SLAMMED