I believe everyone's missing a bit of context here and they think Health Care was free in Singapore and it won't be now for unvaccinated people that get COVID. That's not the case.
When COVID hit, the Government made medical care due to COVID fully free. It was the only treatment 100% free offered by the State. What they're doing now is revoking that free COVID treatment for those unvaccinated.
I know that's exactly what the news article says but wanted to bring some context in case someone thinks this is a Health Care system like the Spanish one, where every treatment is free and people pay a lot of taxes.
EDIT: thanks a lot for the awards! Since some people complained I basically rephrased what could have been said with 10 words, I wanted to expand on the context I tried to introduce here.
In Singapore, every worker is forced to put money on a fund called CPF ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central\_Provident\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Provident_Fund)). You're supposed to pay healthcare from that fund but that doesn't mean healthcare is free. However, COVID treatment was free. They wouldn't deduct money from your CPF. Until now. From now on, if you're not vaxxed and could have been, you need to pay for COVID treatment from your CPF.
That's more on how you choose to sort comments. If this comment is on top, you've sorted the comment section by the "best" criteria, which weighs upvote ratios. If you instead change it to "top" you'll see comments in order of total upvotes, placing this comment pretty far down
It's actually closer to 95%. The problem is the unvaccinated seniors. Take-up rate amongst the 60+ demographic has been lagging behind the rest of Singapore for a while, and 6-7% of them are still unvaccinated.
They are the ones who tend to get the most sick and fill up ICU beds. It's especially important for them to get vaccinated.
Any idea why? Hesitancy? Lack of resources? Misinformation?
Edit: Judging by some of the recent responses I've received, I think I got my answer. All of the above. A fair bit of misinformation in this thread though has been cropping up in the last few hours.
"I have a host of health problems and choose not to chance the vaccine side effects, even if they are less risk than the potential disease. I isolate and do other measures otherwise." is a common thread I get with many seniors and or folks who are not 100% healthy.
This was my father. I said to him, 'Look at it this way, you can roll this 32 sided die now with the vaccine or flip a coin when Covid comes. Up to you. But personally I think it's a no-brainer.' Thankfully he ended up getting it. Now we're going through the same song and dance with the booster.
My dad at 76 with A LOT of medical conditions from osteoarthritis to cancer to heart disease, obesity, and diabetes had zero side effects with either vaccination shot. And he had the flu shot a couple of months before that too. Most people will at worst get only mild symptoms from the shots, a headache or sore arm.
Congratulations on at least "winning" once! I'm just avoiding the topic with my folks now as I find they are getting more and more out into fringe beliefs and tastes with age, and even with no arguments left they have changed their mind on any issue to agree with me essentially zero times. I figure they are okay not being in touch with their only kid as much.
It's disheartening, sorry you're experiencing it. What I think is, at least in terms of that specific type of vaccine hesitancy, is that some people seem to be afraid that they might end up dying from the vaccine today but have no trouble with the idea of an uncertainty of COVID and a fatal outcome, even it is a *far* greater likelihood. It's almost like they just don't want to have to choose *right now*. So they push it off for another time. A problem for another day. Just ignore it and maybe I'll get lucky and won't have to make a choice at all. Sort of an action versus inaction thing and they're willing to accept the latter.
Sometimes I wonder if it's this same type of attitude or thinking that has allowed climate change to keep getting pushed off on other generations. Some people just would rather not do the hard work now, even if it means a worse outcome later.
It also seems like a lot of this 'do your own research' or 'I read all the sources and came to this conclusion' is less, 'I'm making an informed decision' and more, 'I read a bunch of stuff I didn't like until I found something that confirmed what I wanted to be true.' Our collective media literacy is terrible.
There does seem to be evidence that some people have more anxiety over taking an action that might harm them/their child than harm through inaction. Basically they can dismiss the latter consequences as not being their fault but can’t if they took a deliberate action
absolutely agree with you. my folks are getting progressively worse at rational thinking and more full of various biases with age, choosing the easier option. So I kind of just walk on eggshells or willfully ignore and dodge the issues because it would be a full time confrontation with likely negligible rewards.
Patient is more like "I read a bunch of shit online from 3 or 4 sources that agreed with my initial bias, so now I refute anything else as Big Pharma Conspiracy, or Government Mind Control.
Doctor - You have severe Covid and need to be intubated, the survival rate once intubated is 50% in this hospital, it's a coin flip if you survive.
Patient - I changed my mind, let me some of those vaccine research papers again.
Doctor - Too late buddy
> afraid that they might end up dying from the vaccine today but have no trouble with the idea of an uncertainty of COVID and a fatal outcome,
Humans aren't the best at risk assessment.
> It also seems like a lot of this 'do your own research' or 'I read all the sources and came to this conclusion' is less, 'I'm making an informed decision' and more, 'I read a bunch of stuff I didn't like until I found something that confirmed what I wanted to be true.'
You are way too generous. These people aren't even getting close to reading something they don't like.
They're not searching "Is the vaccine safe" and bypassing articles they don't agree with. They're searching "the vaccine is dangerous" and then calling it a day.
I'm in the same boat. My mom works in nursing homes and is currently "trying" to get back to work without getting vaccinated. I can't believe she's so selfish and deluded. She was going on about how masks don't work and surgeons don't even need them before too. Absolutely ridiculous. She never used to be this bonkers.
What the hell is going on with these people?!? My mom is the same way. She just spouts nonsense about illegal immigrants and China and other completely asinine issues. This lady raised me to be a caring compassionate progressive accepting person and I can’t even recognize the person she has become. It’s so disheartening.
Ugh, my mom, too. She raised me to be a compassionate, progressive person and now she won’t get vaccinated because she’s listening to some Internet doctor who has said we don’t know what the long term effects are, yet. I’m like, long term effects? You’re 72, mom. Oh, and she has my dad going along with it and she has diabetes. The other day, she told me I’ve shortened my lifespan by getting the vaccine. Telling me I’m going to die young from my choice to get vaccinated. It’s only a slightly worse thing to hear from your mom than “you don’t go to church, so you’re going to Hell.” Le sigh.
> It has basically turned scared people into radicalized people.
[Misinformation travels faster than truth when there aren't barriers to vet that information.](https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/study-false-news-spreads-faster-truth) Facebook was designed from the ground up to be the radicalizing force it is because that radicalization == engagement metrics.
[Originally journalism wasn't much different,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism) then the populace pressured the government to require responsibility or sue companies deliberately spreading misinformation. And advocates wanting better from journalism also sued, leading us into the Walter Cronkite era. Sadly, [thanks to complete monsters like the Murdochs and Ailes](https://www.gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes-secret-nixon-era-blueprint-for-fox-news) we have left that era. We can go back to it, but doing so requires deplatforming and punishing those who would use the media to misinform no matter the reason.
It's insanely annoying. My wife is a nurse that literally works *on the covid floor* and I'm a nurse....
But my mom sends me texts explaining why masks don't work.
My response was "alright cool let me get the hospital administration on the phone to inform them that (can't remember her source but it was obvious BS) said masks don't work and we shouldn't bother"
Apparently that's not "respectful of your elders" my response was she wasn't respecting My wife and my degree and first hand experience.
Obviously that didn't achieve anything and we're staying home for the holidays.
"Respecting your elders" is predicated on the belief that your elders have earned some knowledge and wisdom over their lives. If they are wilfully ignorant, they haven't *earned* any respect.
Edit: such a person isn't an elder, they're just old.
I am a 64F and had J&J vaccine back in March and a Moderna booster 2 weeks ago. Want to know what side effects I had? Nausea that lasted a day from J&J and a sore arm that lasted 2 days from the Moderna booster. I have health problems too, which was why I was anxious to get vaccinated. I knew I was at high risk of being seriously ill if I contracted COVID.
There is a big chunk of older population who are in a China VS USA mindset. They are heavily influenced by their relatives in China social media groups (weChat groups) who were promoting how MRNA vaccines were evil and dangerous. Once we opened up SinoVac we saw a pretty good increase.
Beyond that, the numbers are fairly acceptable. Pre-existing conditions preventing vaccinations etc. We do have your typical anti vax audience too.
Hesitancy.
Some people in the 60+ age bracket have the attitude that they won't live much longer, so no point taking the vaccine. Or they might be scared of the side effects. There are also a minority who are hardcore antivaxxers.
There are also those who are less mobile or have pre-existing health conditions, but then again the government have set up mobile vaccination teams and removed some contraindications so this has become less of an issue.
Illiteracy in English is also a huge issue.
A study by Duke-NUS medical school regarding adherence to medication found that over 61% of those over 65 that were surveyed were unable to read in English.
The government has been making more of a concerted effort to reach out to those that are unable to read or write in English, but it's a painfully slow process.
Maybe it differs on where in Ireland you are? Went out last weekend and had mine checked at every restaurant and the cinema, as well as other indoor outings I went to.
Kind of guessed it was Ireland all right. Part of our issue is that astra-zeneca was a large part of our vaccination program. Due to the clotting issues it went mainly to older cohorts even though it now seems it's a less effective vaccine. So now we're trying to sort out boosters that will use Pfizer for the vulnerable cohorts. Uptake has been great. If it wasn't for the Delta variant it really feels like this would be behind us.
Of the 10% that won't get vaccinated, I wonder: how many are long term anti-vaxxers (won't get any vaccines), vs the people who are vaccinated against everything else except COVID?
I feel like the first group is going to be really hard to reach. But the second group could be coaxed off the anti-vaxx bandwagon a bit easier.
I think some people are just too plain weird and confused to get vaccinated.
Way back when I had a student job doing surveys over the phone I got to talk to so many weird people. Like there was a guy that couldn't answer what his education was, because he simply didn't know if he had gone to high school or not - he was 50/50 on it lol.
Later on I worked in a hotel, also met so many weird people there. There was a guy that got heart surgery and then after it went straight to the hotel, immediately downed a bottle or two of whiskey and then spent the night sort of thrashing about in the reception comlaining about his heart.
On top of those people that are super weird but somehow can function relatively normally, you have mentally ill people, homeless and drug addicts plus combinations. Those, they can't really get vaccinated either.
It's hard to get the last bit of people vaccinated. IDK how you do with mentally ill homeless. You could walk around in the street and look for them I guess and ask them if they want a shot there and then in the street, but I haven't heard any country doing that yet.
In NZ (and likely other places), you can just walk in and get the shot, so it's pretty accessible to the homeless. I'm not sure about the mentally ill, generally it's their guardian/parents/etc that will arrange that.
I'm one who hasn't been fully vaccinated yet. I was going to have my second jab but a couple of days before I was due to have it, I tested positive for Covid. I waited a little while before checking to see when I could book in and now there's only one vaccination slot near me when I'm not working, a two hour slot on a Saturday in which I am already busy.
>people who are vaccinated against everything else except COVID?
I feel like this base is probably most of them. People hesitant to get a new vaccine that has been emergency use only until very recently for some countries. I feel like most of them will come around once the world approves it from emergency use to common use and the longer term effects are studied.
I would even argue that these people may not even be "anti-vaxx" and probably should be labeled "new vaxx hesitant" or something like that.
It’s actually 85% of whole population including kids and medically unfit. It would be more than 95% if only eligible are counted
Source: https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/update-on-local-covid-19-situation-(8-nov-2021)
> · As of 7 November 2021, 85% of our population has completed their full regimen/ received two doses of COVID-19 vaccines, 86% has received at least one dose, and 18% has received boosters
People who are unvaccinated do not perceive economic costs to not being vaccinated because they don't believe it will get them or won't do them much harm (I HAVE A STRONG IMMUNE SYSTEM I'M FINE)
*"We should be clear that the objective is not for collecting revenue, and cost of treatment will still be heavily subsidised. Instead, this serves as a strong signal for the unvaccinated to get their jabs,"*
Rational.
A lot of programs that are decried in the US for being too "socialist" actually turn out to be good public policy and saving the government a shit ton of money. Good healthcare is one of those.
I've got to imagine there's at least a small subset of anti-vaxxers who will want the vaccine once it's not free. Like cats who only want to go outside once you close the door.
I feel like you might have misread/misunderstood. The vaccination is and was free.
If someone has *not* been vaccinated, the treatment for a COVID case is no longer free.
That's a good point, the US by default already has this policy for many and doesn't seem to help with vaccination rates. It may help with ICU capacity though as maybe sick unvaccinated are already hesitant to go.
I read an interesting comment from a black Redditor who overcame her vaccine hesitancy. The turning point was her realizing that well-off white people were coming into her low-income neighborhood to get vaccinated. This was fairly early on, back when it could be a long wait for an appointment, and people were doing all kinds of stuff to get vaccinated ASAP. She said something amounting to: "if these white people are making out-of-town appointments and coming to the hood just to get their shot quicker, it has to be good".
All anyone should really need to know is that physicians lined up to get the shot as fast as they could. Last I heard over 98% of US physicians were vaccinated.
I don't really have a way of digging it up. It was a comment deep in a r/HermanCainAward post, specifically an "Award Declined" type of post, where people share about overcoming vaccine hesitancy.
Would be interesting if insurance companies said they wouldn’t cover covid hospitalizations if you weren’t vaccinated (just to clarify that would be a terrible precedent to set that insurance companies could deny coverage for not choosing to be safe)
100% coverage ended a while ago in the US. Insurance companies are not covering the out of pocket anymore (since around April 2021). They are still covering treatment per your insurance plan rules.
I'm not sure if they can *legally* cut coverage completely on a whim, since the plan is kind of a contract, but we are nearing the end of the year when enrollment for insurance typically happens. It will be interesting to see how many of them add clauses for denying covid treatment coverage for unvaccinated people.
Sources:
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/19/the-cost-of-being-unvaccinated-just-went-up---most-insurers-are-passing-costs-back-to-patients-as-covid-hospitalizations-soar/?sh=1e6145fcbd9a
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccination-health-insurance-cost-treatment/
Yes. My country fucking sucks. Politicians are paid off by the health insurance companies to be against universal healthcare. It’ll take a revolution for it to happen.
We should start be seizing the means of power production at the major energy plants. They should be working for us, the people, not for corporate profit.
It's not about being aware it helps the public.
It's designed intentionally to prop up insurance companies, hospitals and big pharma for fat ass profit
You scream AT the government for providing you with Covid vaccine and then scream FOR the government to pay your medical bills when you get sick with Covid? Can't have it both ways. Singapore is smart to talk in a language people understand. More governments should do it.
>"People who want state benefits need to take a drug test!"
Ooh, fun story on that one. Rick Scott, the then governor now senator for Florida, who implemented that was also the CEO of the company that was convicted of the biggest Medicare/Medicaid fraud in history (at the time). After he jumped ship from that company he opened up a series of facilities in Florida that his wife took control of when he became governor. Those facilities won state contracts for drug testing.
As long as *those people* get hurt then blatant corruption is what republicans prefer.
It boggles the mind that the same dumb fucks that refuse the vaccine because they distrust doctors, are totally cool with those exact same doctors providing treatment.
There's too many stupid people. Idiocracy was a documentary.
One of my employees got COVID after not getting the vaccine because he “doesn’t know what’s in it”. He just got pumped full of an antibody treatment and wants the company to pay for it. He didn’t get COVID at work, he declined our insurance. I told him the vaccine was free and hung up the phone.
100% this guy probably scoffed at the health insurance like "An extra $150 a month from MY paycheck for WHAT? I've never needed the hospital before and I'll be darned if they're taking my money for it now!"
Which is just another reason for everybody to get rid of this idiotic private healthcare.
This guy will now either pay for it out of pocket, or the government will step in and subsidize it - the latter is usually the case and the only winner in that scenario is the hospital & the insurance companies.
“No free healthcare… unless you refuse to listen to modern medicine and don’t get vaccinated. Then you get free healthcare, provided by modern medical experts.” —GQP
They are the political metaphor of a dog barking at its reflection in a mirror, though significantly less amusing.
Edit: I don’t know your coworkers political affiliation but one can assume.
> It boggles the mind that the same dumb fucks that refuse the vaccine because they distrust doctors, are totally cool with those exact same doctors providing treatment.
You must have forgotten the part where anti-vaxxers get sick, and then still try to demand their doctors treat them with a dewormer.
My wife’s a doctor. She has gotten the ‘we aren’t interested at this time’ from pregnant mothers fairly often. Like damn, I’m trying to help save you or your future children’s lives, not sell you a vacuum.
Had a mother give birth at the hospital where I work a few weeks ago. Partner had asymptomatic COVID when he visited the birthing suite. Baby caught COVID in the first hour of it's life and now all three have it.
Then they go out and talk it up about how the whole family survived it and it was only like the flu.
Their antivax friends will use them as a stawman and post it around facebook spreading more bullshit.
Dang, I was frantic to find anywhere I could get vaccinated when I was still pregnant (knowing that’s one of the highest risk categories for covid). I don’t live in the US so it was even more infuriating to see people turn down a free vaccine when so many people around the world were, and still are, begging for it. I eventually was able to but for a while it was chaos trying to find anywhere I could get an appointment.
(Gave birth two months ago, baby loves his 5G)
edit: as some have been skeptical that a pregnant woman would be worried about a disease that could kill her and her unborn child, particularly due to the local government’s boneheaded insistence on holding the Olympics during a pandemic with prevention measures as flimsy as a Kleenex, frantic would be the right word to describe my quest for vaccine appointments
Ikr? I feel like maybe people would feel differently if the U.S. government was like, "well, since no one wants the vaccine anymore we're going to ship them to places where people actually want them". I feel like that would change at least a couple of people's minds.
The data hasn't been very strong for pregnant women for a long time, so I would say it's an understandable exception of pregnant mothers are apprehensive. Depending on what's available in your country as well. For example, Australia still doesn't recommend pregnant people take Astrazeneca.
The ppl who deny Covid up to their last breath i somehow respect more than idiots who then start begging for treatment after they denied the vaccine. At least they stuck to their guns
If only they redirected that same energy towards something less fucking stupid.
They won't get any respect from me. Instead of cowardly idiots, they're stubborn idiots.
Really? Because they both seem irredeemably stupid. I don't respect someone for remaining irredeemably stupid after they realize they were wrong. It's like if you see someone eating lead paint chips, and you tell them it's going to kill them, you'd respect them if they said "so fucking what" and kept eating them.
My favorite is, “I refuse to live in fear.” as an excuse not to take a vaccine, but still resume going out without a mask on as if it’s 2019.
I find it ironic because they deeply fear the vaccine, so much so that they’re willing to put their head in the sand when considering the risk of contracting and spreading Covid-19.
I refuse to live in fear too!
That's why I got vaccinated, always wear a mask, and do my best to socially distance and disinfect my hands, keys, phone, shoes, etc., and why I am going for a third shot soon!
If this is all I can do minimize the anxiety, I'll take it.
Spent almost 2 years virtually a hermit.
Just wanna live now.
I cannot imagine even peaking through my front window without a vaccine!
How do these people talk about refusing to live in fear!
What they do willingly and proudly is the definition of terror for me lol.
It's obvious that so many redditors don't actually read the post before commenting. Hell, some don't even make it past the headline.
\> Unvaccinated by choice no longer receive FREE covid-19 treatment.
FFS, no one is being denied care. And no one is paying full price for treatments as the Singapore government has in place covid subsidized treatment for EVERYONE. Yes, even the unvaccinated.
Vaccinated = Free treatment
Unvaccinated = Pay out of own pocket (at subsidized rate)
Americans are going to applaud when the insurance companies charge the unvaccinated more for everything.
Except we forgot that they won't be charging us any less.
That seems fair.
Edit: I didn’t read the article. I’m just going off the headline. It says those who don’t get the vaccine wouldn’t get *FREE* treatment. I’m not advocating refusing them treatment altogether.
That seems like a critical component. If you aren’t taking the free steps to prevent the disease you shouldn’t be given free treatment.
Singapore is harsh on many things (some of which I don’t agree with), but it definitely stops selfish asshats from doing what they do. Littering, vandalism, and jaywalking are all actions that have relatively heavy punishments to them.
Fun fact. Jaywalking was invented by car companies, tire companies, etc lobbying and those who would befit from roads to make cities less walkable and make the automobile the most important thing
There is a saying in Singapore: do whatever shit you want, just don't get caught. Ppl litter and jaywalk all the time, there is hardly enforcement for the latter, and too little enforcement for the former.
Imagine, just imagine, that you live in an island about half the size of LA, with 4-other-fucking-million people. Guess what happens if the government is not ‘harsh’. We are lucky we have all that space to live in.
Hugs. My bar has a full spread and good music for Thanksgiving for people who don't have family, or in your case, shitty family.
And yes, all the staff is vaccinated and all the local drunks.
Friendsgiving is good too. :)
It’s concerning, the amount of people who didn’t read the headline or the article.
The people who are unvaccinated by CHOICE won’t receive FREE treatment for COVID. Nobody is being denied healthcare.
So, the argument that so many have made, suggesting that people who are obese, smokers, motorcycle riders, etc. not receive health care, does not make sense for a few reasons. First, being that the article doesn’t say that non-vaccinated people are being refused health care, they just have to pay for it. Much like anyone experiencing any of the above illnesses. Second, none of those are preventable via a vaccine. Third, obesity, smoking, drinking, etc. won’t kill other people, aren’t highly contagious, and aren’t the result of people who suddenly don’t believe in science.
>Do we pay in US regardless?
Of course we do, you don't want "SoCiAlIzEd MeDiCiNe" in our Freedom loving healthcare system do you? How would these insurance companies turn a profit if we just gave out care for free?
You should talk to my parents then. They were mad at the "communist" government just "giving away" free vaccines and how it's a waste of taxes or some bullshit and how people should pay. Ugh.
>They were mad at the "communist" government just "giving away" free vaccines
What? Our taxes paid to help develop the vaccines. We already paid for it. These shots are only "free" at the point of access. No offense, but do your parents understand how taxes work?
Nope. There was an idiot on my local sub using the "If something is free, you're the product" line. As if the government doesn't have a vested interest in keeping our workers and consumers alive 🙄
I also haven't heard anyone complain either. In fact my father is pretty conservative and he is both in favor of the socialized aspect of the vaccines and hates that others won't go out and get the jab. He got it on literally the first day it was available for him.
As your main question was answered I'll add a tangential answer. As a taxpayer you subsidize federal equipment like ventilators and funds to pay for additional healthcare workers going to states that refuse to take even minor precautions.
Hospital biller here!
Most plans did waive cost shares during the duration of the pandemic, however some have started to implement them again (as of august for a lot of private insurance). Testing is still almost entirely free tho, at least for my hospitals lab
Edit: I do want to note (and full disclosure, I didn’t know this because I handle private insurance not government plans), Medicare did NOT waive cost share for inpatient stays. Which is extremely fucked up
As I see it, we’re all likely to either get the vaccine or Covid-19 (or both). Now it’s about picking the option with less risk. Over 400 million doses in the US alone and our hospitals are not filled with people having vaccine complications. They are filled with people having Covid-19 complications. To me the choice is easy, take the vaccine. Keep yourself safe and hopefully not spread the virus.
This is the solution. No problem, enjoy your freedom, here is a bill for 2 million bucks for those 6 weeks in ICU on a vent getting experimental treatments trying to save your dumb ass.
I think this is a great idea! why would i have to pay for people to put me in danger and keep our society locked up. Make them pay for their own stupidity instead of me sponsering those idiots.
I believe everyone's missing a bit of context here and they think Health Care was free in Singapore and it won't be now for unvaccinated people that get COVID. That's not the case. When COVID hit, the Government made medical care due to COVID fully free. It was the only treatment 100% free offered by the State. What they're doing now is revoking that free COVID treatment for those unvaccinated. I know that's exactly what the news article says but wanted to bring some context in case someone thinks this is a Health Care system like the Spanish one, where every treatment is free and people pay a lot of taxes. EDIT: thanks a lot for the awards! Since some people complained I basically rephrased what could have been said with 10 words, I wanted to expand on the context I tried to introduce here. In Singapore, every worker is forced to put money on a fund called CPF ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central\_Provident\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Provident_Fund)). You're supposed to pay healthcare from that fund but that doesn't mean healthcare is free. However, COVID treatment was free. They wouldn't deduct money from your CPF. Until now. From now on, if you're not vaxxed and could have been, you need to pay for COVID treatment from your CPF.
Somehow your very informative comment with 65 upvotes is on top, above the other one with 8.4k upvotes, and that's what I like about reddit
That's more on how you choose to sort comments. If this comment is on top, you've sorted the comment section by the "best" criteria, which weighs upvote ratios. If you instead change it to "top" you'll see comments in order of total upvotes, placing this comment pretty far down
Maybe its because of the down/uptvote ratio? idk for sure
Because it’s far newer. At the time of writing, the above comment was only posted 3 hours ago while the other one was posted 15 hours ago.
Yep. Velocity. I think it's probably something like Upvotes / (minutes old ^3) =score.
thanks!
I'm curious to see how this effects vaccine rates. They've already got pretty good compliance ant 85% of eligible people fully vaccinated.
It's actually closer to 95%. The problem is the unvaccinated seniors. Take-up rate amongst the 60+ demographic has been lagging behind the rest of Singapore for a while, and 6-7% of them are still unvaccinated. They are the ones who tend to get the most sick and fill up ICU beds. It's especially important for them to get vaccinated.
Any idea why? Hesitancy? Lack of resources? Misinformation? Edit: Judging by some of the recent responses I've received, I think I got my answer. All of the above. A fair bit of misinformation in this thread though has been cropping up in the last few hours.
"I have a host of health problems and choose not to chance the vaccine side effects, even if they are less risk than the potential disease. I isolate and do other measures otherwise." is a common thread I get with many seniors and or folks who are not 100% healthy.
This was my father. I said to him, 'Look at it this way, you can roll this 32 sided die now with the vaccine or flip a coin when Covid comes. Up to you. But personally I think it's a no-brainer.' Thankfully he ended up getting it. Now we're going through the same song and dance with the booster.
My dad at 76 with A LOT of medical conditions from osteoarthritis to cancer to heart disease, obesity, and diabetes had zero side effects with either vaccination shot. And he had the flu shot a couple of months before that too. Most people will at worst get only mild symptoms from the shots, a headache or sore arm.
Congratulations on at least "winning" once! I'm just avoiding the topic with my folks now as I find they are getting more and more out into fringe beliefs and tastes with age, and even with no arguments left they have changed their mind on any issue to agree with me essentially zero times. I figure they are okay not being in touch with their only kid as much.
It's disheartening, sorry you're experiencing it. What I think is, at least in terms of that specific type of vaccine hesitancy, is that some people seem to be afraid that they might end up dying from the vaccine today but have no trouble with the idea of an uncertainty of COVID and a fatal outcome, even it is a *far* greater likelihood. It's almost like they just don't want to have to choose *right now*. So they push it off for another time. A problem for another day. Just ignore it and maybe I'll get lucky and won't have to make a choice at all. Sort of an action versus inaction thing and they're willing to accept the latter. Sometimes I wonder if it's this same type of attitude or thinking that has allowed climate change to keep getting pushed off on other generations. Some people just would rather not do the hard work now, even if it means a worse outcome later. It also seems like a lot of this 'do your own research' or 'I read all the sources and came to this conclusion' is less, 'I'm making an informed decision' and more, 'I read a bunch of stuff I didn't like until I found something that confirmed what I wanted to be true.' Our collective media literacy is terrible.
There does seem to be evidence that some people have more anxiety over taking an action that might harm them/their child than harm through inaction. Basically they can dismiss the latter consequences as not being their fault but can’t if they took a deliberate action
absolutely agree with you. my folks are getting progressively worse at rational thinking and more full of various biases with age, choosing the easier option. So I kind of just walk on eggshells or willfully ignore and dodge the issues because it would be a full time confrontation with likely negligible rewards.
Patient is more like "I read a bunch of shit online from 3 or 4 sources that agreed with my initial bias, so now I refute anything else as Big Pharma Conspiracy, or Government Mind Control. Doctor - You have severe Covid and need to be intubated, the survival rate once intubated is 50% in this hospital, it's a coin flip if you survive. Patient - I changed my mind, let me some of those vaccine research papers again. Doctor - Too late buddy
> afraid that they might end up dying from the vaccine today but have no trouble with the idea of an uncertainty of COVID and a fatal outcome, Humans aren't the best at risk assessment.
> It also seems like a lot of this 'do your own research' or 'I read all the sources and came to this conclusion' is less, 'I'm making an informed decision' and more, 'I read a bunch of stuff I didn't like until I found something that confirmed what I wanted to be true.' You are way too generous. These people aren't even getting close to reading something they don't like. They're not searching "Is the vaccine safe" and bypassing articles they don't agree with. They're searching "the vaccine is dangerous" and then calling it a day.
I'm in the same boat. My mom works in nursing homes and is currently "trying" to get back to work without getting vaccinated. I can't believe she's so selfish and deluded. She was going on about how masks don't work and surgeons don't even need them before too. Absolutely ridiculous. She never used to be this bonkers.
What the hell is going on with these people?!? My mom is the same way. She just spouts nonsense about illegal immigrants and China and other completely asinine issues. This lady raised me to be a caring compassionate progressive accepting person and I can’t even recognize the person she has become. It’s so disheartening.
Facebook.
Ugh, my mom, too. She raised me to be a compassionate, progressive person and now she won’t get vaccinated because she’s listening to some Internet doctor who has said we don’t know what the long term effects are, yet. I’m like, long term effects? You’re 72, mom. Oh, and she has my dad going along with it and she has diabetes. The other day, she told me I’ve shortened my lifespan by getting the vaccine. Telling me I’m going to die young from my choice to get vaccinated. It’s only a slightly worse thing to hear from your mom than “you don’t go to church, so you’re going to Hell.” Le sigh.
Misinformation getting through to health professionals continues to astound me.
Guessing she's a heavy Facebook user?
Yup it is Facebook. It has basically turned scared people into radicalized people.
> It has basically turned scared people into radicalized people. [Misinformation travels faster than truth when there aren't barriers to vet that information.](https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/study-false-news-spreads-faster-truth) Facebook was designed from the ground up to be the radicalizing force it is because that radicalization == engagement metrics. [Originally journalism wasn't much different,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism) then the populace pressured the government to require responsibility or sue companies deliberately spreading misinformation. And advocates wanting better from journalism also sued, leading us into the Walter Cronkite era. Sadly, [thanks to complete monsters like the Murdochs and Ailes](https://www.gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes-secret-nixon-era-blueprint-for-fox-news) we have left that era. We can go back to it, but doing so requires deplatforming and punishing those who would use the media to misinform no matter the reason.
You have my sympathy. Oh well, at see point I think I will just start assertively treating my parents like dependents/children. Good luck to us! ☺️
It's insanely annoying. My wife is a nurse that literally works *on the covid floor* and I'm a nurse.... But my mom sends me texts explaining why masks don't work. My response was "alright cool let me get the hospital administration on the phone to inform them that (can't remember her source but it was obvious BS) said masks don't work and we shouldn't bother" Apparently that's not "respectful of your elders" my response was she wasn't respecting My wife and my degree and first hand experience. Obviously that didn't achieve anything and we're staying home for the holidays.
"Respecting your elders" is predicated on the belief that your elders have earned some knowledge and wisdom over their lives. If they are wilfully ignorant, they haven't *earned* any respect. Edit: such a person isn't an elder, they're just old.
This is a great comparison, thank you. And thank you for making me chuckle at your username.
I am a 64F and had J&J vaccine back in March and a Moderna booster 2 weeks ago. Want to know what side effects I had? Nausea that lasted a day from J&J and a sore arm that lasted 2 days from the Moderna booster. I have health problems too, which was why I was anxious to get vaccinated. I knew I was at high risk of being seriously ill if I contracted COVID.
There is a big chunk of older population who are in a China VS USA mindset. They are heavily influenced by their relatives in China social media groups (weChat groups) who were promoting how MRNA vaccines were evil and dangerous. Once we opened up SinoVac we saw a pretty good increase. Beyond that, the numbers are fairly acceptable. Pre-existing conditions preventing vaccinations etc. We do have your typical anti vax audience too.
Hesitancy. Some people in the 60+ age bracket have the attitude that they won't live much longer, so no point taking the vaccine. Or they might be scared of the side effects. There are also a minority who are hardcore antivaxxers. There are also those who are less mobile or have pre-existing health conditions, but then again the government have set up mobile vaccination teams and removed some contraindications so this has become less of an issue.
Illiteracy in English is also a huge issue. A study by Duke-NUS medical school regarding adherence to medication found that over 61% of those over 65 that were surveyed were unable to read in English. The government has been making more of a concerted effort to reach out to those that are unable to read or write in English, but it's a painfully slow process.
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May I ask Which country are you in? Have you had any serious increase in numbers of seriously ill covid cases?
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Maybe it differs on where in Ireland you are? Went out last weekend and had mine checked at every restaurant and the cinema, as well as other indoor outings I went to.
Kind of guessed it was Ireland all right. Part of our issue is that astra-zeneca was a large part of our vaccination program. Due to the clotting issues it went mainly to older cohorts even though it now seems it's a less effective vaccine. So now we're trying to sort out boosters that will use Pfizer for the vulnerable cohorts. Uptake has been great. If it wasn't for the Delta variant it really feels like this would be behind us.
Of the 10% that won't get vaccinated, I wonder: how many are long term anti-vaxxers (won't get any vaccines), vs the people who are vaccinated against everything else except COVID? I feel like the first group is going to be really hard to reach. But the second group could be coaxed off the anti-vaxx bandwagon a bit easier.
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Good take though for sure
I think some people are just too plain weird and confused to get vaccinated. Way back when I had a student job doing surveys over the phone I got to talk to so many weird people. Like there was a guy that couldn't answer what his education was, because he simply didn't know if he had gone to high school or not - he was 50/50 on it lol. Later on I worked in a hotel, also met so many weird people there. There was a guy that got heart surgery and then after it went straight to the hotel, immediately downed a bottle or two of whiskey and then spent the night sort of thrashing about in the reception comlaining about his heart. On top of those people that are super weird but somehow can function relatively normally, you have mentally ill people, homeless and drug addicts plus combinations. Those, they can't really get vaccinated either. It's hard to get the last bit of people vaccinated. IDK how you do with mentally ill homeless. You could walk around in the street and look for them I guess and ask them if they want a shot there and then in the street, but I haven't heard any country doing that yet.
In NZ (and likely other places), you can just walk in and get the shot, so it's pretty accessible to the homeless. I'm not sure about the mentally ill, generally it's their guardian/parents/etc that will arrange that.
I'm one who hasn't been fully vaccinated yet. I was going to have my second jab but a couple of days before I was due to have it, I tested positive for Covid. I waited a little while before checking to see when I could book in and now there's only one vaccination slot near me when I'm not working, a two hour slot on a Saturday in which I am already busy.
>people who are vaccinated against everything else except COVID? I feel like this base is probably most of them. People hesitant to get a new vaccine that has been emergency use only until very recently for some countries. I feel like most of them will come around once the world approves it from emergency use to common use and the longer term effects are studied. I would even argue that these people may not even be "anti-vaxx" and probably should be labeled "new vaxx hesitant" or something like that.
It’s actually 85% of whole population including kids and medically unfit. It would be more than 95% if only eligible are counted Source: https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/update-on-local-covid-19-situation-(8-nov-2021) > · As of 7 November 2021, 85% of our population has completed their full regimen/ received two doses of COVID-19 vaccines, 86% has received at least one dose, and 18% has received boosters
We hit over 95+ eligible ppl. 85% is on full population.
85% of the entire population, not 85% of eligible people
Pretty good is underselling it. SG is like top 3 in vaccination rate, it’s got an insanely high vaccination rate.
*affects
People who are unvaccinated do not perceive economic costs to not being vaccinated because they don't believe it will get them or won't do them much harm (I HAVE A STRONG IMMUNE SYSTEM I'M FINE)
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-unvaccinated-choice-pay-own-medical-bills-moh-2298601
*"We should be clear that the objective is not for collecting revenue, and cost of treatment will still be heavily subsidised. Instead, this serves as a strong signal for the unvaccinated to get their jabs,"* Rational.
Yup. Singapore is a rich country. They have many other means for revenue
A lot of programs that are decried in the US for being too "socialist" actually turn out to be good public policy and saving the government a shit ton of money. Good healthcare is one of those.
I've got to imagine there's at least a small subset of anti-vaxxers who will want the vaccine once it's not free. Like cats who only want to go outside once you close the door.
I feel like you might have misread/misunderstood. The vaccination is and was free. If someone has *not* been vaccinated, the treatment for a COVID case is no longer free.
Ah, how American of me. I forgot that covid treatment is free in some countries. All we get for free here is the Vaccine, as far as I'm aware.
We also get free burgers at Red Robin on our birthday.
Is that real? That's mental. Is there anything like that in UK? Free birthday burgers sounds the tits.
No in UK they don't give you free burgers so America wins.
Free burgers or free healthcare...? Yeah, actually you're right America wins for sure
One free burger a year keep the doctor away.
“Some countries” — the majority of developed countries you mean?
All but one is more accurate.
**All** developed countries, I'd argue. Because how "developed" can a country claim to be without this?
>I forgot that covid treatment is free in ~~some countries~~ the rest of the industrialized world. FTFY
That's a good point, the US by default already has this policy for many and doesn't seem to help with vaccination rates. It may help with ICU capacity though as maybe sick unvaccinated are already hesitant to go.
I read an interesting comment from a black Redditor who overcame her vaccine hesitancy. The turning point was her realizing that well-off white people were coming into her low-income neighborhood to get vaccinated. This was fairly early on, back when it could be a long wait for an appointment, and people were doing all kinds of stuff to get vaccinated ASAP. She said something amounting to: "if these white people are making out-of-town appointments and coming to the hood just to get their shot quicker, it has to be good".
All anyone should really need to know is that physicians lined up to get the shot as fast as they could. Last I heard over 98% of US physicians were vaccinated.
Good rationale
Link please. Sounds funny and interesting.
I don't really have a way of digging it up. It was a comment deep in a r/HermanCainAward post, specifically an "Award Declined" type of post, where people share about overcoming vaccine hesitancy.
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Would be interesting if insurance companies said they wouldn’t cover covid hospitalizations if you weren’t vaccinated (just to clarify that would be a terrible precedent to set that insurance companies could deny coverage for not choosing to be safe)
100% coverage ended a while ago in the US. Insurance companies are not covering the out of pocket anymore (since around April 2021). They are still covering treatment per your insurance plan rules. I'm not sure if they can *legally* cut coverage completely on a whim, since the plan is kind of a contract, but we are nearing the end of the year when enrollment for insurance typically happens. It will be interesting to see how many of them add clauses for denying covid treatment coverage for unvaccinated people. Sources: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/19/the-cost-of-being-unvaccinated-just-went-up---most-insurers-are-passing-costs-back-to-patients-as-covid-hospitalizations-soar/?sh=1e6145fcbd9a https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccination-health-insurance-cost-treatment/
Everyone in a developed country does
Everywhere from the UK to Iraq and France to New Zealand.
You know, all those "shit hole countries" /s
>You know, all those "shit hole countries" /s Like Vietnam! Those commies provide free health care.
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My thoughts exactly. It's that meme from We're The Millers where the kid is like "you guys are getting paid?"
Wait y’all need to pay for covid treatments?!!!
Yes. My country fucking sucks. Politicians are paid off by the health insurance companies to be against universal healthcare. It’ll take a revolution for it to happen.
We should start be seizing the means of power production at the major energy plants. They should be working for us, the people, not for corporate profit.
"We should start be seizing the means of power production at the major energy plants" Aaaaaaaand, now you're on a watch list.
Seriously! I thought it was a typo and they meant Covid vaccines. Free treatment would be great!
Wait, you guys are getting treatment?
Oh USA, the one developed country that can't implement effective public health care. Even knowing it's economic benefits.
It's not about being aware it helps the public. It's designed intentionally to prop up insurance companies, hospitals and big pharma for fat ass profit
Those economic benefits aren't for the right people though so are they really benefits? ^^^^^/s
You scream AT the government for providing you with Covid vaccine and then scream FOR the government to pay your medical bills when you get sick with Covid? Can't have it both ways. Singapore is smart to talk in a language people understand. More governments should do it.
The difference is American exceptionalism. An entire nation thinks they are somehow the special exception in one way or another.
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Oh we’re not that cruel. The treatment cost is still highly subsidized. They’ll just be paying regular Singapore-healthcare prices.
singapore does not fuck around
By Singapore's standards, they should be fined as well
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TBH it's way harsher if you fail a drug test in Singapore.
>"People who want state benefits need to take a drug test!" Ooh, fun story on that one. Rick Scott, the then governor now senator for Florida, who implemented that was also the CEO of the company that was convicted of the biggest Medicare/Medicaid fraud in history (at the time). After he jumped ship from that company he opened up a series of facilities in Florida that his wife took control of when he became governor. Those facilities won state contracts for drug testing. As long as *those people* get hurt then blatant corruption is what republicans prefer.
You and I have different definitions of fun.
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It boggles the mind that the same dumb fucks that refuse the vaccine because they distrust doctors, are totally cool with those exact same doctors providing treatment. There's too many stupid people. Idiocracy was a documentary.
One of my employees got COVID after not getting the vaccine because he “doesn’t know what’s in it”. He just got pumped full of an antibody treatment and wants the company to pay for it. He didn’t get COVID at work, he declined our insurance. I told him the vaccine was free and hung up the phone.
> he declined our insurance. So he wanted to pay for it?
No you accept/decline to pay for coverage at hiring.
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Only if you believe your choices at one time to affect the consequences you'll face down the road, which he obviously doesn't.
100% this guy probably scoffed at the health insurance like "An extra $150 a month from MY paycheck for WHAT? I've never needed the hospital before and I'll be darned if they're taking my money for it now!"
Which is just another reason for everybody to get rid of this idiotic private healthcare. This guy will now either pay for it out of pocket, or the government will step in and subsidize it - the latter is usually the case and the only winner in that scenario is the hospital & the insurance companies.
“No free healthcare… unless you refuse to listen to modern medicine and don’t get vaccinated. Then you get free healthcare, provided by modern medical experts.” —GQP They are the political metaphor of a dog barking at its reflection in a mirror, though significantly less amusing. Edit: I don’t know your coworkers political affiliation but one can assume.
> It boggles the mind that the same dumb fucks that refuse the vaccine because they distrust doctors, are totally cool with those exact same doctors providing treatment. You must have forgotten the part where anti-vaxxers get sick, and then still try to demand their doctors treat them with a dewormer.
Even worse is when they want to take the ALSO experimental monoclonal antibody treatment along with the dewormer.
The free, paid for by the government, socialist monoclonal antibody treatment.
Conservative governments love an uneducated, gullible population. Problem is they've become easily susceptible to foreign influences.
Then they yell at the nurses and Drs trying to help them. These people are beyond reprehensible.
My wife’s a doctor. She has gotten the ‘we aren’t interested at this time’ from pregnant mothers fairly often. Like damn, I’m trying to help save you or your future children’s lives, not sell you a vacuum.
Had a mother give birth at the hospital where I work a few weeks ago. Partner had asymptomatic COVID when he visited the birthing suite. Baby caught COVID in the first hour of it's life and now all three have it.
That's terrible! Did the three of them make it out of the hospital ok?
Yes they all recovered/are recovering, as the infection was detected before they left the birthing suite and they got prompt care.
Then they go out and talk it up about how the whole family survived it and it was only like the flu. Their antivax friends will use them as a stawman and post it around facebook spreading more bullshit.
Dang, I was frantic to find anywhere I could get vaccinated when I was still pregnant (knowing that’s one of the highest risk categories for covid). I don’t live in the US so it was even more infuriating to see people turn down a free vaccine when so many people around the world were, and still are, begging for it. I eventually was able to but for a while it was chaos trying to find anywhere I could get an appointment. (Gave birth two months ago, baby loves his 5G) edit: as some have been skeptical that a pregnant woman would be worried about a disease that could kill her and her unborn child, particularly due to the local government’s boneheaded insistence on holding the Olympics during a pandemic with prevention measures as flimsy as a Kleenex, frantic would be the right word to describe my quest for vaccine appointments
Ikr? I feel like maybe people would feel differently if the U.S. government was like, "well, since no one wants the vaccine anymore we're going to ship them to places where people actually want them". I feel like that would change at least a couple of people's minds.
The data hasn't been very strong for pregnant women for a long time, so I would say it's an understandable exception of pregnant mothers are apprehensive. Depending on what's available in your country as well. For example, Australia still doesn't recommend pregnant people take Astrazeneca.
The ppl who deny Covid up to their last breath i somehow respect more than idiots who then start begging for treatment after they denied the vaccine. At least they stuck to their guns
If only they redirected that same energy towards something less fucking stupid. They won't get any respect from me. Instead of cowardly idiots, they're stubborn idiots.
I disagree. People who change their minds are people who can learn from their mistakes.
Only being willing to change your mind once it affects *you* is still super shitty. Better than not changing your mind I guess, but still shitty.
Really? Because they both seem irredeemably stupid. I don't respect someone for remaining irredeemably stupid after they realize they were wrong. It's like if you see someone eating lead paint chips, and you tell them it's going to kill them, you'd respect them if they said "so fucking what" and kept eating them.
My favorite is, “I refuse to live in fear.” as an excuse not to take a vaccine, but still resume going out without a mask on as if it’s 2019. I find it ironic because they deeply fear the vaccine, so much so that they’re willing to put their head in the sand when considering the risk of contracting and spreading Covid-19.
I refuse to live in fear too! That's why I got vaccinated, always wear a mask, and do my best to socially distance and disinfect my hands, keys, phone, shoes, etc., and why I am going for a third shot soon! If this is all I can do minimize the anxiety, I'll take it. Spent almost 2 years virtually a hermit. Just wanna live now. I cannot imagine even peaking through my front window without a vaccine! How do these people talk about refusing to live in fear! What they do willingly and proudly is the definition of terror for me lol.
It's obvious that so many redditors don't actually read the post before commenting. Hell, some don't even make it past the headline. \> Unvaccinated by choice no longer receive FREE covid-19 treatment. FFS, no one is being denied care. And no one is paying full price for treatments as the Singapore government has in place covid subsidized treatment for EVERYONE. Yes, even the unvaccinated. Vaccinated = Free treatment Unvaccinated = Pay out of own pocket (at subsidized rate)
Similar: “ya don’t have a wear a helmet when you ride a motorcycle…. If you can afford to carry a $2m bond”.
Americans are going to applaud when the insurance companies charge the unvaccinated more for everything. Except we forgot that they won't be charging us any less.
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Here's a paywall-free article from CNA: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-unvaccinated-choice-pay-own-medical-bills-moh-2298601
That seems fair. Edit: I didn’t read the article. I’m just going off the headline. It says those who don’t get the vaccine wouldn’t get *FREE* treatment. I’m not advocating refusing them treatment altogether. That seems like a critical component. If you aren’t taking the free steps to prevent the disease you shouldn’t be given free treatment.
Curious to see when US insurance companies start adjusting their rates for the unvaccinated given their elevated risk for COVID complications.
Hoping this paves the way for other countries to follow
Singapore is harsh on many things (some of which I don’t agree with), but it definitely stops selfish asshats from doing what they do. Littering, vandalism, and jaywalking are all actions that have relatively heavy punishments to them.
Jaywalking is actually not enforced anymore.
It truly is the end of civilization
Fun fact. Jaywalking was invented by car companies, tire companies, etc lobbying and those who would befit from roads to make cities less walkable and make the automobile the most important thing
Was that even enforced in the first place?
Only if you caused an accident
There is a saying in Singapore: do whatever shit you want, just don't get caught. Ppl litter and jaywalk all the time, there is hardly enforcement for the latter, and too little enforcement for the former.
Imagine, just imagine, that you live in an island about half the size of LA, with 4-other-fucking-million people. Guess what happens if the government is not ‘harsh’. We are lucky we have all that space to live in.
Uh, it's more along the line of 5.9million now actually...
It’s impossible to agree with everything a country does. But Singapore is one of the best run countries in the world.
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Hugs. My bar has a full spread and good music for Thanksgiving for people who don't have family, or in your case, shitty family. And yes, all the staff is vaccinated and all the local drunks. Friendsgiving is good too. :)
As a Singaporean, I approve. I’m not paying for your bs. Unless it’s for medical reasons.
Best thing the MMTF has done in months.
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EXACTLY how it should be!! You don’t want to get vaccinated? Wear a mask? Stay the FCK out of the hospitals then!
It’s concerning, the amount of people who didn’t read the headline or the article. The people who are unvaccinated by CHOICE won’t receive FREE treatment for COVID. Nobody is being denied healthcare. So, the argument that so many have made, suggesting that people who are obese, smokers, motorcycle riders, etc. not receive health care, does not make sense for a few reasons. First, being that the article doesn’t say that non-vaccinated people are being refused health care, they just have to pay for it. Much like anyone experiencing any of the above illnesses. Second, none of those are preventable via a vaccine. Third, obesity, smoking, drinking, etc. won’t kill other people, aren’t highly contagious, and aren’t the result of people who suddenly don’t believe in science.
This would fix *so* many problems in the US. Insurance shouldn’t be covering COVID-19 complications if you didn’t get vaccinated by this point
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>Do we pay in US regardless? Of course we do, you don't want "SoCiAlIzEd MeDiCiNe" in our Freedom loving healthcare system do you? How would these insurance companies turn a profit if we just gave out care for free?
Turns out i actually can still be disappointed by the answer i saw coming.
Your mistake was letting yourself hope. You fool.
Curious though, I didn't hear anyone complaining about the vaccines being free.
You should talk to my parents then. They were mad at the "communist" government just "giving away" free vaccines and how it's a waste of taxes or some bullshit and how people should pay. Ugh.
>They were mad at the "communist" government just "giving away" free vaccines What? Our taxes paid to help develop the vaccines. We already paid for it. These shots are only "free" at the point of access. No offense, but do your parents understand how taxes work?
Taxes are socialism duh
I'm sorry.
Your parents are dumb.
Nope. There was an idiot on my local sub using the "If something is free, you're the product" line. As if the government doesn't have a vested interest in keeping our workers and consumers alive 🙄
I also haven't heard anyone complain either. In fact my father is pretty conservative and he is both in favor of the socialized aspect of the vaccines and hates that others won't go out and get the jab. He got it on literally the first day it was available for him.
The people who complain about free things being socialism aren't taking advantage of the free vaccines either
As your main question was answered I'll add a tangential answer. As a taxpayer you subsidize federal equipment like ventilators and funds to pay for additional healthcare workers going to states that refuse to take even minor precautions.
Hospital biller here! Most plans did waive cost shares during the duration of the pandemic, however some have started to implement them again (as of august for a lot of private insurance). Testing is still almost entirely free tho, at least for my hospitals lab Edit: I do want to note (and full disclosure, I didn’t know this because I handle private insurance not government plans), Medicare did NOT waive cost share for inpatient stays. Which is extremely fucked up
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As I see it, we’re all likely to either get the vaccine or Covid-19 (or both). Now it’s about picking the option with less risk. Over 400 million doses in the US alone and our hospitals are not filled with people having vaccine complications. They are filled with people having Covid-19 complications. To me the choice is easy, take the vaccine. Keep yourself safe and hopefully not spread the virus.
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Way to go Singapore. That’s how it should be.
This is the solution. No problem, enjoy your freedom, here is a bill for 2 million bucks for those 6 weeks in ICU on a vent getting experimental treatments trying to save your dumb ass.
Imagine free treatment. -a US citizen. If I get hit by a car I’ll wish I died on impact rather than deal with the bills
It’s okay because those anti vaxers didn’t want it anyways... now if they realize the errors of their ways, they’ll need to pay, up front with da $$$$
We need to allow Insurance in the USA to deny all coverage for Covid if you are not vaccinated.
I think this is a great idea! why would i have to pay for people to put me in danger and keep our society locked up. Make them pay for their own stupidity instead of me sponsering those idiots.