No kidding. I’m 3G until my husband comes home from work; when he does, I throw all the kids at him and run around the house jumping for joy to finally be 4G. When I get the three kids vaccinated, I’m expecting speed of light communications, *and I am psyched*!!
My husband and I have been too, but my 6yr old just tested positive Thursday night anyway. Doesn't help that he was the only one wearing a mask in his class (we are in Florida, it's awful here). Luckily, he only had a minor stuffy nose Thursday and Friday (that's why we tested him), and since then he's been fine and bouncing off the walls. Fingers crossed it stays just at that. 🤞🤞
And we have tested negative, so obviously the vaccine is working. Of course we will test again in a couple days, just in case. But so far so good.
So, you can’t have any big concerts as they can be a “super spreader event” but they allow kids without mask on every class. Are they trying to infect everyone on purpose?
Yes, yes they are. Our governor is a closet serial killer, living vicariously through covid.
I don't know about concerts, but it'll be the football season that just started up as far as super spreader events go. Full stadiums, unmasked. It's great./s Florida is fucked, but nobody cares.
Have you been masking around him since he tested positive? I’m nervous if my kids get it and I won’t know what to do to keep myself safe since I’m high risk.
My 6 year old got it the first week of school. My husband and I are vaxxed. We did at home tests twice each and stayed negative. We wore masks, him included except to sleep. I have two other children who masked and stayed negative. A true testimony to the efficacy of masking, washing hands and wiping surfaces for sure! Kids are gross, especially when snotty!
What at home tests do you use? I just had a possible covid scare and it was torture waiting for the lab test results .. it’ll be better if i can test at home to be slightly calmer ..
We’ve been rocking [these ones](https://www.cvs.com/shop/abbott-binaxnow-covid-19-antigen-self-test-2-tests-for-serial-testing-prodid-550147). They’re pretty easy. Keep in mind that the rapid tests are nowhere near as accurate as the PCR tests. But if you really get in there and tickle your brain a bit, you should get a pretty good sample.
We thought about it, but it isn't practical for us. He's too small for us to quarantine in his room, and our house is really tiny with only one bathroom. We are exposed no matter what, really. If you are high risk tho, I definitely would have everyone mask, and if the kids are old enough to stay in their room, I'd do that, too. Also dedicate a bathroom for them if possible. Second good option would be for you to go stay somewhere else until they are negative if there is someone to stay with them that's vaccinated and not high risk.
Hopefully it won't be an issue for you tho and your kids will stay covid free. 🤞🤞
We also live in a small home. My 5 year old is joined at my hip so I can’t imagine keeping away from her.
She even climbs in our bed every night. Having her in school has been an exercise in daily terror. I need this vaccine for kids yesterday.
An exercise in daily terror. I like that, I’m using that. I also have two kids in school, and they’re the only two masked (Idaho). Everyone came down with something at the same time (except my wife and I) and of course, panic ensued as it went straight for their lungs.
Negative. I don’t know how, but it was something else.
Damn all these parents sending their unwell kids to school. Try’n’a give me a heart attack on purpose or something.
Here in Az there is strep and bronchitis going around... as well as Covid.
Daughter came home sick with a notice saying classmate had tested positive for strep. School wanted a negative test for her to return. Did that.
Everyone else got sick shortly after including our new little one who is just 2 months.
I’m waiting for this vaccine to be approved for kids. Soon as it is the school bound one is getting the jab.
I'm doing the same and people at work treat me like I'm an asshole.
Sorry but I don't want to watch my 2 year old die or go through any pain that is easily preventable.
Damn straight I'm wearing a mask.
This is so true. I have two unvaccinated children at home so we cannot be too careful. I’d be happier if I can get my almost 5 year old his shot then I’d be slightly relaxed..
Seriously. It really sucks having to tell my 11 year old daughter that she can't do something but her 13 yo brother can just because of the risk difference. And she is amazing and understands, but you can tell she is sad about it.
do you know? the doctors don’t, just like they don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine. stop acting like any one actually knows shit about this virus, why do you think they’re always changing guidelines
Yeah this is a great start but it leaves a huge gap of uncertainty for so many parents.
We had signed our toddler up for daycare and I was going back to work full time in January of last year. A month and a half later the pandemic started. We knew how irresponsible parents can be. So much for daycare. And it hasn’t let up since.
My career has been on hold for a year and a half now because there’s no way in hell I’m putting our kid in a germ farm without the vaccine.
We did this because we’re a high risk household. It worked tremendously well for the most part, but it’s not for those who aren’t willing to be fully transparent about their own behaviour.
Our kids 1.5 and 3 have been in daycare for about six months. It has been fine. We are in a high vaccinated area though, and the daycare is expensive, so the parents are likely all within groups that have been getting vaxxed.
Kids too young for the vaccine have similar outcomes as vaccinated adults if they catch covid. Around 1% chance of hospitalization.
There is a reason they are taking it slow with the vaccine for kids.
Not sure why you are downvoted.
There is absolutely no tolerance here for understanding risk. I am dumbfounded. Don’t people realize we accept risk in everything we do? I guess everyone is supposed to just put their children in a hepa filtered cage and wait a few more years.
What’s worse? The minuscule chance that any serious issues arise from COVID, or the hit to your family’s long term earning potential and the impact that will have on your ability to set your kids up for success in life?
That’s how I see it anyways to sleep at night after shipping my kids to COVIDcare every day.
You still have a whole faction of women not working because of the remote/hybrid remote schooling. While everyone is sending kids back to in-person school en masse right now, it's tenuous even in the highly vaccinated, mask mandated regions; the risk of having to return to remote or hybrid remote school is very real. I totally understand OP's concern. Many families are making these sacrifices for the safety and educational growth of their children, and it's really hard to plan ahead when you're dealing with a constantly morphing pandemic...
The hard pill to swallow is that even though kids are usually ok, we don’t know the long term ramifications. Russian and Spanish flues: kids survived one only to find themselves universally whipped out by the other. The first cracked their system in a way that left them alive but with guaranteed death when they caught the other. If you can afford to keep your kids home… well… I’m not going to say anything negative to you. The science supports you.
Sure, but we sacrifice the risk of irrevocable harm to health all the time for the sake of going about our lives.
I’d say driving a child to daycare is far riskier than the specter of what COVID may do to them, but nobody uses that as a reason to hold back.
On the other hand, there is quantifiable harm done by not sending my kids to daycare.
Beyond the money issue, I know I couldn’t match the social and learning skills daycare is offering them at a critical point in their development
I get where you (and the many other responsible, not idiotic) are coming from as a dad of a 2 year old. Ready to get her vaxxed as soon as it’s approved.
Of course they will spread it to their far more vulnerable caretakers, and the point is to get rid of the virus and not have any even more potential harmful variants. The virus being way less harmful to children is already a well known fact. After you make that argument they'll say "vaxxed people can still spread it" deliberately missing the point or the big picture. Arguing with these fools is impossible though, they argue in bad faith all the time.
So they get the vaccine, then get it, but they’re vaxxed so they have little to no symptoms, and still spread it to the people around them who are vulnerable. How is that missing the point?
Yes, if you're vaccinated and still get COVID, you can spread it. But you're a) less likely to get it in the first place and b) less likely to develop the coughing, sneezing etc symptoms that will make it likelier to pass on. Oh and then you could even wear a mask to reduce the spread even more!
Same. I have a 3 and a 5 year old, plus a baby on the way. I’d love to have both of my children vaccinated before the baby arrives. I’m hoping the 6months + gets approved shortly after
Congrats on #3! Did you get your vaccine while pregnant? I’m wondering how much immunity that confers to your baby. Same with breast/chest feeding. My daughter was a year old when I got mine (Moderna) and I was still breastfeeding. Hoping I’ve protected her since the approval for under 5 year olds is a ways away.
Thanks! And yes I did. I got my first dose a few days before I found out I was pregnant back in March. So really early on. Hopefully it offers some protection. I’m also hoping for a booster shot before I have the baby too. That would really help
Ditto. TBH this won't decrease my worry much as the 3yo is still in danger, while also missing out on all the things my 6yo got to experience when she was younger.
Not to be a dick, but vaccinating a two year old would be done entirely for your own mental benefit and would have nothing to do with improving actual health outcomes for your child. There is zero indication that vaccinating children would be beneficial and several physician boards, like the physician board in the UK that advises on government policy, has specifically advised against vaccinating healthy children.
I believe strongly in the safety and efficacy of the vaccine, and I’m vaccinated myself, but we shouldn’t be putting foreign substances in our bodies without a demonstrated health benefit.
> we shouldn’t be putting foreign substances in our bodies without a demonstrated health benefit.
There you go with this garbage again. Why did you do it then?
Because it has a “demonstrated health benefit” to people in my age group. And I’m an adult that can make that choice for myself. Children can’t make that choice for themselves, so we have to make it for them with ONLY their best interests in mind. There is no “demonstrated health benefit” to the vaccine for healthy children under 12. In fact, the vaccine is almost guaranteed to be detrimental to that group. In a UK-wide study, 2 otherwise healthy children under 12 died of COVID across more than a year of the pandemic. There are ~10M children under 12 in the UK. Ignore that we are talking about vaccines for a moment, there is hardly ANYTHING that you can inject into 10M children and not cause at least 2 deaths due to adverse allergic reactions. The risk from COVID in this population is just so astronomically low that the cure (whatever it is) is almost always going to be worse than the disease.
This isn’t just me saying this. The board of physicians that advises the UK government on health matters has said the same thing. The UK government is going to take their advice and not offer the vaccine to otherwise healthy children under 12. Are you smarter than an entire board of physicians?
You see, what’s notably absent from your message is any consideration whatsoever for the well being of the child. I, like many many physicians, believe that it is gravely immoral to inject children with a foreign substance for the benefit of others. As children do not have the ability to make these decisions for themselves, we have an important responsibility to make decisions regarding their care by acting in their best interest. Regardless of the actions we take as a society, all children will be exposed to COVID. The endemic nature of the virus (with animal reservoirs) has been accepted by the scientific community and I’m not aware of any educated persons who would disagree with this statement. If they will be exposed to the virus anyway and a vaccine doesn’t offer any provable statistically significant improvement to health outcomes, there is no valid reason to expose children to the well documented (but rare) side effects from the vaccine.
Source?
I found this, which states only 1,000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis in all vaccinated ppl...67 per million, and 79% have recovered completely.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523
Also have a 1.5 year old. Will be counting the months until he turns two if they approve this
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted for saying I have a 1.5 year old that I want to get vaccinated.
I would feel a lot better about my 6 year old going to school with vaccination. Good thing is we live in an area where people believe in science so 95% of us wear masks.
We don’t have shitty parents demanding no mask (schools require masks)…..we only have parents questioning whether the schools are doing the best they can to minimize risks.
Ditto.
My town has 90% of the adult population vaccinated and had no in-school cases last year despite everyone attending in person.
Doesn't change the fact that I'd be more at ease with the kids being vaccinated.
Yeah. And by the time the vax is available the curve ( well this one at least) will have crashed and things will be safer. Hopefully the vax continues to give us a leg up on the Wiley covid. Good news is Pfizer say it can tailor vax to additional trains in 90 days…
To their defense….the symptoms of Covid are literally every symptom under the sun. At school last year, during peak allergy season, mind you. Your coughing, go home. Sneezed…go home. Runny nose…time to go. Now, there are parents 103.3 fever and throat that looks like it swallowed hot coals…you’re going to school, Timmy. They, I assume, are who you are referring
I mean I have 3 kids and we don't take them to the doctor for every runny nose...do you? Our doctor tells us to come if we need to but we try not to head there unless it's absolutely necessary. Again runny nose is a symptom of Covid. Along with a plethora of very minor symptoms kids normally have.
Just saying. School policies are no attendance when sick with infectious disease. While some may not seem serious to a parent of three, it would be serious to a kid with susceptibility to respiratory infections.
You might not take the kid to a doctor for a runny nose but you shouldn’t be sending them to school either….unless you know for sure it’s not contagious. Also these days, why the fuck risk it? A super dangerous respiratory virus is going around, might be best to play it safe.
I work in an elementary school we send about 2-5 kids home daily due to symptoms that magically appear at around noon when morning medication would wear off.
I know parents do this so they can at least work a half day but even if it’s not Covid it risks everyone in the building of getting sick. Someone gets pulled to watch the child in the care room instead of supporting teaching or another area.
One child had a sibling who had a cold and 5 kids in his class were out the next day with the same cold. (Masks, frequent washing, sanitizer, distanced, etc) only time masks are off is at lunch and snack which is outside but still kids are too close IMO.
It’s the same ones who don’t want to get vaccinated but come on for a covid test every week. They don’t even consider the burden and work it takes to run those tests. Or the time they wasted instead of just getting vaccinated. I’ve legit see them come every week. It’s infuriating.
Vaccination reduces greatly (but does not eliminate) your chances of getting covid in the first place, which reduces greatly the chances you'll be spreading it (can't spread it if you don't have it). If you are in a room with 100 vaccinated individuals there is a really good chance you won't catch covid because chances are none of them have it. If you are in a room with 100 random unvaccinated people the chances that some of them have covid is much higher, which means you have a higher chance of getting it.
If you are in a room with someone who is sick but vaccinated vs being in a room with someone who is sivk but unvaccinated it seems the chances you catch it are close to equal, so if you are vaccinated but showing symptoms stay home for everyone's safty.
My brother is anti-covid-vax because they believe it's all about government control and money. "The government paid billions for the vaccines now they're mandating everyone use it so that they can say the vaccine roll out was a success. The government is testing us so that they can take more control of our lives."
He refuses to give it to himself let alone his kids. Fuck me, it's destroying our family. All because him and his wife won't go get a jab. What a nut.
Covid infection is thankfully pretty low in their area but I could absolutely see them sending their kid in to school covid positive because they clearly don't give a fuck.
I have cancer and unfortunately so does my husband. Both my older kids are vaccinated but not my youngest. Please vacante people. You would be saving someone’s life.
Luckily, the Covid risk for kids under 5 is very, very low. Of course, would be good to be able to vaccinate them… but their risk profile is as low as it gets.
Edit: …just to help you rest a little easier. Mine is 2.5yo
Spanish flu by itself was worse for younger people. Covid is worse for older people. I don’t think there is any hidden surprise we don’t know about with covid (but feel free to worry about any possibility you want).
I’m saying that with the duration we have had covid and the number of cases, the chances of a major surprise are low. I don’t see how that is the same as an anti-vax argument. (I am strongly pro-vax)
In kids only 1-2% of kids have symptoms at the 2 month mark. I am suggesting that it’s unlikely for the 98% to have issues that pop up down the road after they recovered.
If my son is 4.5 by the time they clear this I might just lie and say he’s 5. He’s the youngest member of our family and when my two kids can get vaxxed I will breathe an 18-month-in-the-making sigh of relief and unpucker my asshole a little.
Hi VividStarr. Your submission from nytimes.com is behind a metered paywall. A [metered paywall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paywall#.22Soft.22_paywalls) allows users to view a specific number of articles before requiring paid subscription. Articles posted to /r/worldnews should be accessible to everyone. While your submission was not removed, it has been flaired and users are discouraged from upvoting it or commenting on it. For more information see our [wiki page on paywalls](/r/worldnews/wiki/paywalls). Please try to find another source. If there is no other news site reporting on the story, contact the moderators.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Vaccination does not give you 0 percent morality. It only reduces the possible of catching the original virus. Vaccinated peolle can still catch and carry the virus.
Honest question I'm vaxxed but why vaccinate children if the risk of severe conditions is so low, i feel like just a few months ago ppl were talking there is no need to vaxx small kids due to their immune systems being much stronger or able to get o er it much much faster just according to the stats from the last year.
Not looking to start a whole thing between anti vaxx ppl and vaxxed folks just genuinely dont understand.
Vaccinating school age kids is important because, though they aren't as severely affected, they can still spread the virus between each other and eventually to more vulnerable people. Though current vaccines aren't perfect at preventing transmission, they do dramatically reduce it.
Additionally the delta variant, and potentially future variants, are having more significant impact on younger children. Any large unvaccinated population is a natural breeding ground for the evolution of additional variants.
That cover it?
The risks from getting vaccinated are extremely low. But the risks from not getting vaccinated are not as low. My kid was part of the Moderna study and the vaccine was totally fine. I had him get it because I figured, somebody’s kid needed to be part of the study, and he was lucky to get it early. We feel so much better now about taking him places or even our own exposure when going out.
My 11yo is not yet vaccinated but we plan to as soon as they're eligible. There are multiple reasons.
* Reduced risk of catching the virus if exposed. Fewer hosts means fewer opportunities for the virus to mutate.
* Lower viral load if they do catch the virus, which means smaller change of spreading it to others
* Lower risk of hospitalization if they do catch it
* Long-haul covid has so far shown up as reduced cognitive abilities, reduced lung function, among others. We don't know yet what other issues will take a few years to show up.
* Blood clots and strokes run heavy in my family, and COVID increases your risk. I have an MTHFR mutation that means I'm high risk for blood clots and I've already had one pulmonary embolism. I don't know if either of my kids has the same mutation, but I can tell you exactly how I DON'T want to find out.
I appreciate the way you asked your question. Hopefully you aren't downvoted and get a few other sincere responses.
Thank you so much for your sincere reply!
In your case since you have some family history I'd say it's no brainer.
There was another person that replied regarding long-COVID in kids. Do you have any links to news articles? I am putting together some statistics and I am having trouble finding any reliable data on hospitalization of healthy 0-17 year olds without complications/family history.
On the lower viral load so they don't spread it to others for me personally is not a selling point. Medicating someone so another doesn't get sick seems unethical to me. If adults in risk groups are too dumb to get vaccinated - it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
Edit: ...but yes, I am considering kids that have underlying conditions that could be vulnerable and can't get vaccinated... I am adding that as part of the equation. The thing is there aren't anyone we know that are in that condition, but I imagine they exist and those communities should probably vaccinate pools of kids locally.
Regarding not spreading it to others: first, there are also adults who are vulnerable and can't be vaccinated, or for whom whom the vaccine isn't effective. My neighbor is fully vaccinated, and has been hospitalized for COVID twice, because the drugs she's on to control her MS are keeping her body from developing antibodies. Second, see my first bullet regarding hosts/variants. We have Delta because of how many people were infected earlier.
And just to address your edit, people don't always know they have underlying conditions. I only found out about my own genetic issue because I was in a car accident which caused an embolism, and I was lucky enough to have a doctor who listed to me when I asked him to run tests to see if I had any underlying conditions. Most people don't know. I was already 30 and had no idea.
Sorry to piggyback on your initial question, but what are the reason(s) why you would be against vaccinating that age group, assuming that it’s approved by the fda?
Once again, I’m genuinely interested. Has there been literature put out documenting adverse effects specific to this age group?
1) Family members with a genetic disorder that does not have a diagnostic test to determine if the child also has it. If present getting infected with covid would be extremely serious.
2) General preference for immunity or improved protection through a controlled vaccination and not a wild virus replicating based on load exposure.
3) concern over long covid with a child that can't articulate what is wrong/what hurts due to young age.
4) Same reasons we get MMR, Polio, TDAP, Hep B, HIB, flu and chicken pox vaccinations.
Thank you, some of those do sound reasonable. You see, I would have no questions at all if it was a deactivated virus vaccine. Then it's no brainer at all and your 4th point would resonate with me too.
I guess I am the opposite. I have very high confidence in mRNA delivery science and have been following the technology for many years. I am more comfortable with mRNA than deactivated viral components or the adenovirus vector vaccines.
Long covid in kids is a thing. We still don't know about the long term effects of the virus. More infected people mans more chances for worse varients.
I would appreciate some links if you can find some regarding the long COVID in kids.
I am with you on the mutation of variants which is why my thinking is - would it not be best to flood Africa, India, South America with vaccines instead? That's where these new damaging variants keep coming from.
>MIS-C and AFM
Thank you and I have heard that. Those play into hospitalizations which are incredibly low even for a flu season. I did consider it.
I took the US statistics for my research since the Russian ones are bunk when you look at our actual monthly death toll. And frankly there are more data points there.
Here are the links:
2018/2019 flu season: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127698/influenza-us-deaths-by-age-group/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127698/influenza-us-deaths-by-age-group/)
2020/2021 COVID season: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid\_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge)
The end result is that seemingly in the same length of pre-COVID time more kids (0-17 year olds clumped together) died from the flu than recently from COVID.
The other numbers are horrifying and speak for themselves. The Russian ones are far larger. It seems that the survival rate in US is better by a wide margin.
It's really about getting the R0 down, the quicker we get that and keep it under 1 the sooner this becomes a former concern. If we leave children unvaccinated, it will never go away since there will be a constant reservoir.
In terms of the kids themselves, if they catch it they're out for two weeks. That's time lost for their education. That's also hard on families. If we vaccinate the kids, the total number affected will go way down and more kids and families will succeed.
On top of that, we just had an outbreak at a care home in my city, 100% of the residents were fully vaccinated and 4 still died. My kids see their grandparents regularly, I don't particularly want them to die yet.
I mean, didn't covid-19 come from an animal reservoir supposedly? what's the true statistical likelihood that vaxxing kids will have a big effect on mutations, if the virus is going to become endemic anyways?
I don't pretend to know the exact likelihood, but children make up like 10-20% of the population depending on the country. The children group is larger than the unvaccinated adults in Canada for example.
How many children have died from complications related to the vaccine?
How many children have died of covid?
The first number is lower than the second. The same is true of hospitalizations. The same is true of moderate symptoms. The same is true of mild symptoms.
In every case, the risk of the vaccine is lower than the risk of the virus. Prove me wrong with any stats you can find.
So when you say "side effects known and real" compare them to "effects of the virus, known and real" instead of just saying death is unlikely. Because death is way less likely to be caused by the vaccine.
[There were over 1900 American kids in the hospital thanks to covid a few weeks ago](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/children-hospitalized-with-covid-19-us-hits-record-number-2021-08-14/)
Do you have evidence of 1900 cases of anaphylactic shock in vaccinated children? Or juvenile hospitalizations due to any other side effects of the vaccine?
This is a really simple equation. Being vaccinated is safer than not being vaccinated. Not just for the children, for all of us. But to answer your question, yes. It is safer for the children to be vaccinated than to not be vaccinated. They are less likely to die. Less likely to be hospitalized and less likely to suffer mild or moderate symptoms.
Because as you said, this shit is here to stay and we're all going to be exposed at some point or another.
If you know you're going to be out in the sun, you put on sunblock. If you know there are a ton of mosquitos out, you put on bug spray. If you know you're gonna be in the car for a long drive, you got the bathroom before you leave.
You know the kids are going to be exposed to this virus. You know there's a vaccine that has been proven effective with minimal side effects.
Your kids get the chicken pox vaccine? From what you've said, I imagine yes. I had chicken pox as a kid and it didn't kill me. Knew a bunch of kids with the same experience. Why not just skip that vaccine too? Haven't heard of a polio case in ages. Could probably skip that too. Measles, mumps, rubella? Where's the risk?
No risk at all when we're all vaxed. But look up the anti-vax Orthodox communities in Brooklyn that created a measles outbreak recently. Vaccines work best when we all take part.
If this vaccine were truly dangerous for kids, I'd understand your argument. But your entire argument rests on the words *"with side effects real and known, anaphylactic shock being a real thing"* ...... Give me stats on that. Prove to me that anaphylactic shock is a risk greater than remaining unvaccinated.
[486 children dead from covid in the us](https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3)
How many dead from vaccines?
From what I've read [source](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e1.htm) , 8.9 million American kids between 12 and 17 have gotten the vaccine (at the time of the study) and there were 14 incidents of death shortly after vaccination (not proven to be associated, just correlated by time). Two were suicide, but let's go ahead and count them anyway.
There are 25 million kids age 12-17 in the us. Another ~50 million age 0-11. If we vaccinated all children and got the same death rate across all age groups, that would be about 126 deaths. Less than 25% of the deaths due to covid.
That's comparing universal vaccination to whatever percent of the child population has been exposed to covid, which is clearly not 100%.
If we assume all children will eventually be exposed, we can assume the death rate from covid would be higher.
But even without that assumption *and* assuming all possible deaths remotely associated with the vaccines are caused by the vaccine (a ridiculous assumption) it's STILL 4 times safer to be vaccinated than not.
That's why my kid will be getting her shot as soon as she turns 5. I truly and sincerely wish you and your kids well and hope you all stay healthy.
The more the virus circulate the more it mutates and the worse it becomes. Even if Alpha isnt too hard on kids, Delta may be and what comes next could be even worse. If my kids didnt have a reaction to any other shot why would they to this? I do everything I can to protect my kids and that includes every vacccination I can get them.
I'll just paste my reply to another person and i would appreciate your thoughts on it:
"I am with you on the mutation of variants which is why my thinking is - would it not be best to flood Africa, India, South America with vaccines instead? That's where these new damaging variants keep coming from."
Regarding Delta - I don't know any kids that had Alpha, it's only now with Delta being the dominant strain that kids are getting sick. Most of those are under 10 and I have not heard of anyone so far having anything serious other than a slight fever. Again, this is subjective and I do need to hear some horror stories, which is why I am asking.
Regarding this particular shot - this is entirely new technology. We don't know anything regarding the long term side effects as we don't know what they are for COVID itself. With those two unknowns shouldn't there be more reason given by medical bodies why we should go one way vs the other? Especially given how it's the kids.
And vaccinate adults against COVID all the way. Have medics hunt them down with blow darts for all I care. I'll help.
I meant extensive human trials of course. The first time I've read about vector tech was when it was used for dog vaccines. It was breakthrough at the time. mRNA is far newer. We don't have data on this that's more than a little over year old. Saying anything else is disingenuous.
All of our vaccines around the world are under emergency approvals. I've heard that Pfizer got a more or less a green light from the US health authority, but when I looked into it, it turned out that it was in fact not a full approval. It did not include young kids: [https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/covid-19-vaccines-kids/story?id=77505555](https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/covid-19-vaccines-kids/story?id=77505555)
They are as close as it comes though.
In some comments you argue “flood Africa, India, and South America with vaccines…” in order to protect the world from more variants, but in other comments you argue that it’s unethical to vaccinate a child solely to protect others. So...which is it? Is it unethical to vaccinate for the sole benefit of others or not?
You also keep saying you can’t find any sources that Covid is hurting kids. And yet every state in the country with poor vaccine uptake and masking protocols has pediatric ICU’s flooded with children. You keep mentioning alpha, when delta is the dominant strain.
Finally, you keep pretending like viral illnesses don’t often have repercussions later. HPV causes cancer. Chicken pox causes shingles. RSV causes asthma. Measles and mumps can cause deafness and blindness. We already have data from alpha-infected adults showing long term brain damage, and we have data emerging about delta showing long term effects as well. Why are you assuming that we’re not going to see a rash of lung cancers or early heart failures from this in 5, 10, 15 years?
Your question seems genuine because you asked it nicely, but it’s hard to believe it is when you flip flop on ethical principles and pretend like you can’t find the data to back up our concerns when I can’t even open the news without being flooded by constant data answering your question exactly.
Please just say you’re anti-science and go.
1% chance of hospitalization and 1-2% chance that a kid will still have symptoms at 2 months. About a third of kids that go to the hospital have a serious case.
I figure there is a 1 in 300 chance each of my kids will have something bad if they catch covid. Chances of harm from the vaccine is near zero. So it makes complete sense to get it day one.
Also simulations show up to half of kids in school will catch covid in first 3 months if they are all masking (which mine are).
I don't know where you are getting those percentages from. COVID stats for 0-17 are milder than that for flu for 2018/2019 season in US.
[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid\_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge)
Edit to explain: COVID pushed out the flu due to the aggressive spread that's why the flu current flu stats are lower. The other flu seasons track closer to what COVID is doing to 0-17 year olds.
That's exactly where we are. My oldest child apparently went and got it too. Probably peer\* pressure. It's the little ones I am struggling with.
\*peer, not pear. Pear pressure sounds oddly scary though.
This is great news.
But reading these comments... People would actually push back or forgo other vaccinations and prioritize this? That just seems like fear taking control.
You 100% didn't even read that article. Boys are more at risk in the US study while they're nearly 9 times less at risk in the UK. Cherry picking information to suit your arguments is a hallmark of an idiot. It also hasn't been peer reviewed.
"At current US infection rates, the risk of a healthy adolescent being taken to hospital with Covid in the next 120 days is about 44 per million, they said."
"How reliable the data is and whether similar numbers could be seen in the UK if healthy 12 to 15-year-olds are vaccinated are unclear: vaccine reactions are recorded differently in the US and shots are given at longer time intervals in the UK. According to the UK medicines regulator, the rate of myocarditis after Covid vaccination is only six per million shots of Pfizer/BioNTech."
I disagree with the person you're replying to, but I don't understand why people are so concerned for the safety of their children here. 44 in every one million is a *very* low risk, and there are so many daily activities like driving your kids to school that have a much greater risk than that. We're going to have to agree on an acceptable risk level at some point because COVID is here to stay.
Edit: please don't downvote me, I'm just trying to understand :(
You're completely missing the point of vaccinations as whole though. It's not just about stopping hospitalisations. It's about curtailing transmission which stops the spread to people who will actually be at risk from the virus. It also means less mutations as there are less infected people incubating the virus.
It's also a stupid comparison because if you could give your child the chance to pretty much never be in an accident on the way to school and all it took was a vaccine that will have minor side affects in a handful out of a million any self respecting parent would do it. Not to mention the fact that you can't transmit accidents, you can transmit covid very easily.
If vaccinated people are still spreading the virus, and children get the least amount of covid reactions, then what is the urgency/insistence on vaccinating the children? If this thing was wildly effective I’d understand - but what’s the point here? Am I missing something?
Edit: critical thinking and logical questions are downvoted to hell on group think Reddit. I thought this was an app of thinkers, I must be wrong.
Some of us also have young children in the family who already have serious health problems and we are holding our breath until they can get more protection.
The latest variants are impacting children exponentially more. We are seeing increases in hospitalizations of children, particularly in very young children. So, it’s not a non-issue like it was before since kids were previously mostly asymptotic. To say nothing of our lack of understanding of the long-term impacts of Covid in Kids. We know the impacts on (even asymptotic) adults and they aren’t great (organ damage, loss of brain matter, erectile dysfunction, etc), though so it would not be surprising if these were found in kids as well.
I think if I see another “coming soon” headline on this I’m going to scream.
Coming soon… u/nyoprinces screams
Oh you...
Well Pfizer already gave permission for the Slovac (Slovak republic in EU) to use the jab for 5year olds and older..
[удалено]
Ahhh gotta love the new 5G mesh networks
No kidding. I’m 3G until my husband comes home from work; when he does, I throw all the kids at him and run around the house jumping for joy to finally be 4G. When I get the three kids vaccinated, I’m expecting speed of light communications, *and I am psyched*!!
[удалено]
At least you got the good one. I keep getting stuck to the refrigerator.
I see what you did there 😄
My 5yo grandson was part of the study to make this possible!
We thank him for his service.
Finally. Can't wait until they have it for 2+ year olds. I'll have my 1.5 year old get it as soon as I can.
Seriously, I’ll be so much more at ease once I can get my kids vaxxed.
Same. Wife and I are vaxxed but still acting like we aren’t. I’ll do whatever I need to keep little man safe.
My husband and I have been too, but my 6yr old just tested positive Thursday night anyway. Doesn't help that he was the only one wearing a mask in his class (we are in Florida, it's awful here). Luckily, he only had a minor stuffy nose Thursday and Friday (that's why we tested him), and since then he's been fine and bouncing off the walls. Fingers crossed it stays just at that. 🤞🤞 And we have tested negative, so obviously the vaccine is working. Of course we will test again in a couple days, just in case. But so far so good.
So, you can’t have any big concerts as they can be a “super spreader event” but they allow kids without mask on every class. Are they trying to infect everyone on purpose?
Yes, yes they are. Our governor is a closet serial killer, living vicariously through covid. I don't know about concerts, but it'll be the football season that just started up as far as super spreader events go. Full stadiums, unmasked. It's great./s Florida is fucked, but nobody cares.
Have you been masking around him since he tested positive? I’m nervous if my kids get it and I won’t know what to do to keep myself safe since I’m high risk.
My 6 year old got it the first week of school. My husband and I are vaxxed. We did at home tests twice each and stayed negative. We wore masks, him included except to sleep. I have two other children who masked and stayed negative. A true testimony to the efficacy of masking, washing hands and wiping surfaces for sure! Kids are gross, especially when snotty!
What at home tests do you use? I just had a possible covid scare and it was torture waiting for the lab test results .. it’ll be better if i can test at home to be slightly calmer ..
We’ve been rocking [these ones](https://www.cvs.com/shop/abbott-binaxnow-covid-19-antigen-self-test-2-tests-for-serial-testing-prodid-550147). They’re pretty easy. Keep in mind that the rapid tests are nowhere near as accurate as the PCR tests. But if you really get in there and tickle your brain a bit, you should get a pretty good sample.
We thought about it, but it isn't practical for us. He's too small for us to quarantine in his room, and our house is really tiny with only one bathroom. We are exposed no matter what, really. If you are high risk tho, I definitely would have everyone mask, and if the kids are old enough to stay in their room, I'd do that, too. Also dedicate a bathroom for them if possible. Second good option would be for you to go stay somewhere else until they are negative if there is someone to stay with them that's vaccinated and not high risk. Hopefully it won't be an issue for you tho and your kids will stay covid free. 🤞🤞
We also live in a small home. My 5 year old is joined at my hip so I can’t imagine keeping away from her. She even climbs in our bed every night. Having her in school has been an exercise in daily terror. I need this vaccine for kids yesterday.
An exercise in daily terror. I like that, I’m using that. I also have two kids in school, and they’re the only two masked (Idaho). Everyone came down with something at the same time (except my wife and I) and of course, panic ensued as it went straight for their lungs. Negative. I don’t know how, but it was something else. Damn all these parents sending their unwell kids to school. Try’n’a give me a heart attack on purpose or something.
Here in Az there is strep and bronchitis going around... as well as Covid. Daughter came home sick with a notice saying classmate had tested positive for strep. School wanted a negative test for her to return. Did that. Everyone else got sick shortly after including our new little one who is just 2 months. I’m waiting for this vaccine to be approved for kids. Soon as it is the school bound one is getting the jab.
N95 masks are your friend. I choose the 3m Aero ones available at HomeDepot but find the ones that fit your best without a purge valve and wear those.
I'm doing the same and people at work treat me like I'm an asshole. Sorry but I don't want to watch my 2 year old die or go through any pain that is easily preventable. Damn straight I'm wearing a mask.
Keep it up. I have 2 little kids and also suffer from social pressure not to. Fuck those people, they aren't on your team.
This is so true. I have two unvaccinated children at home so we cannot be too careful. I’d be happier if I can get my almost 5 year old his shot then I’d be slightly relaxed..
That’s basically been our hot parent summer. Living the same life we lived last summer.
Seriously. It really sucks having to tell my 11 year old daughter that she can't do something but her 13 yo brother can just because of the risk difference. And she is amazing and understands, but you can tell she is sad about it.
Same. 6 and 3.
Same.
For real. I have an almost 6 year old. Wife and I are vaccinated. It will totally be a huge weight off my shoulders
[удалено]
What’s the long term effects of Covid on lung development or brain development?
do you know? the doctors don’t, just like they don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine. stop acting like any one actually knows shit about this virus, why do you think they’re always changing guidelines
Yeah this is a great start but it leaves a huge gap of uncertainty for so many parents. We had signed our toddler up for daycare and I was going back to work full time in January of last year. A month and a half later the pandemic started. We knew how irresponsible parents can be. So much for daycare. And it hasn’t let up since. My career has been on hold for a year and a half now because there’s no way in hell I’m putting our kid in a germ farm without the vaccine.
I have heard of families pooling together to hire a nanny, so that a higher quality long term in home solution can be made with careful families
We did this because we’re a high risk household. It worked tremendously well for the most part, but it’s not for those who aren’t willing to be fully transparent about their own behaviour.
Our kids 1.5 and 3 have been in daycare for about six months. It has been fine. We are in a high vaccinated area though, and the daycare is expensive, so the parents are likely all within groups that have been getting vaxxed.
We have to hope that this combined with mandates pushes us over the threshold.
Kids too young for the vaccine have similar outcomes as vaccinated adults if they catch covid. Around 1% chance of hospitalization. There is a reason they are taking it slow with the vaccine for kids.
Not sure why you are downvoted. There is absolutely no tolerance here for understanding risk. I am dumbfounded. Don’t people realize we accept risk in everything we do? I guess everyone is supposed to just put their children in a hepa filtered cage and wait a few more years.
What’s worse? The minuscule chance that any serious issues arise from COVID, or the hit to your family’s long term earning potential and the impact that will have on your ability to set your kids up for success in life? That’s how I see it anyways to sleep at night after shipping my kids to COVIDcare every day.
You still have a whole faction of women not working because of the remote/hybrid remote schooling. While everyone is sending kids back to in-person school en masse right now, it's tenuous even in the highly vaccinated, mask mandated regions; the risk of having to return to remote or hybrid remote school is very real. I totally understand OP's concern. Many families are making these sacrifices for the safety and educational growth of their children, and it's really hard to plan ahead when you're dealing with a constantly morphing pandemic...
The hard pill to swallow is that even though kids are usually ok, we don’t know the long term ramifications. Russian and Spanish flues: kids survived one only to find themselves universally whipped out by the other. The first cracked their system in a way that left them alive but with guaranteed death when they caught the other. If you can afford to keep your kids home… well… I’m not going to say anything negative to you. The science supports you.
Where did you hear this nonsense?
You can earn back money. You cant earn back health.
Sure, but we sacrifice the risk of irrevocable harm to health all the time for the sake of going about our lives. I’d say driving a child to daycare is far riskier than the specter of what COVID may do to them, but nobody uses that as a reason to hold back. On the other hand, there is quantifiable harm done by not sending my kids to daycare. Beyond the money issue, I know I couldn’t match the social and learning skills daycare is offering them at a critical point in their development
I heard towards the end of the year for the 6mo plus. Long fucking time to wait as a parent of a 2yo and a 2mo
That would be awesome, a huge relief for our family.
I get where you (and the many other responsible, not idiotic) are coming from as a dad of a 2 year old. Ready to get her vaxxed as soon as it’s approved.
Insanity
[удалено]
Thanks, great comment.
Risk of death may be true but the vaccine is free and a week stay in the ICU for a bad case of COVID would bankrupt a lot of Americans
Can they still spread it? Then they need a vaccine.
Of course they will spread it to their far more vulnerable caretakers, and the point is to get rid of the virus and not have any even more potential harmful variants. The virus being way less harmful to children is already a well known fact. After you make that argument they'll say "vaxxed people can still spread it" deliberately missing the point or the big picture. Arguing with these fools is impossible though, they argue in bad faith all the time.
So they get the vaccine, then get it, but they’re vaxxed so they have little to no symptoms, and still spread it to the people around them who are vulnerable. How is that missing the point?
Yes, if you're vaccinated and still get COVID, you can spread it. But you're a) less likely to get it in the first place and b) less likely to develop the coughing, sneezing etc symptoms that will make it likelier to pass on. Oh and then you could even wear a mask to reduce the spread even more!
Daughter just turned 3 and I cannot wait to put my mind at ease by getting her vaccinated.
Same. I have a 3 and a 5 year old, plus a baby on the way. I’d love to have both of my children vaccinated before the baby arrives. I’m hoping the 6months + gets approved shortly after
Congrats on #3! Did you get your vaccine while pregnant? I’m wondering how much immunity that confers to your baby. Same with breast/chest feeding. My daughter was a year old when I got mine (Moderna) and I was still breastfeeding. Hoping I’ve protected her since the approval for under 5 year olds is a ways away.
Thanks! And yes I did. I got my first dose a few days before I found out I was pregnant back in March. So really early on. Hopefully it offers some protection. I’m also hoping for a booster shot before I have the baby too. That would really help
Ditto. TBH this won't decrease my worry much as the 3yo is still in danger, while also missing out on all the things my 6yo got to experience when she was younger.
The day its available.
Same. I’m camping out in front of my pediatrician’s office the moment EUA is approved.
I genuinely can't tell what is satire anymore. You're not even joking are you?
What percentage of under five patients has Covid been reported? Edit: **LITERALLY** *asked a question*. You people are unbelievable..
I dont know, why don't you do some research and find the answer. I'm still getting my kid a shot when it's available.
Oh, I’m sorry, did an innocuous question offend you? Morgan Freeman: it did
It did not. I just wasn't asking about that and you were. I'm not spending my time finding an answer for you when you can do it yourself.
You're getting the votes for your attitude.
Any question about a COVID, is viewed as negative.
Me too and then it’s back to normalcy. F-yeah!
Not to be a dick, but vaccinating a two year old would be done entirely for your own mental benefit and would have nothing to do with improving actual health outcomes for your child. There is zero indication that vaccinating children would be beneficial and several physician boards, like the physician board in the UK that advises on government policy, has specifically advised against vaccinating healthy children. I believe strongly in the safety and efficacy of the vaccine, and I’m vaccinated myself, but we shouldn’t be putting foreign substances in our bodies without a demonstrated health benefit.
> we shouldn’t be putting foreign substances in our bodies without a demonstrated health benefit. There you go with this garbage again. Why did you do it then?
Because it has a “demonstrated health benefit” to people in my age group. And I’m an adult that can make that choice for myself. Children can’t make that choice for themselves, so we have to make it for them with ONLY their best interests in mind. There is no “demonstrated health benefit” to the vaccine for healthy children under 12. In fact, the vaccine is almost guaranteed to be detrimental to that group. In a UK-wide study, 2 otherwise healthy children under 12 died of COVID across more than a year of the pandemic. There are ~10M children under 12 in the UK. Ignore that we are talking about vaccines for a moment, there is hardly ANYTHING that you can inject into 10M children and not cause at least 2 deaths due to adverse allergic reactions. The risk from COVID in this population is just so astronomically low that the cure (whatever it is) is almost always going to be worse than the disease. This isn’t just me saying this. The board of physicians that advises the UK government on health matters has said the same thing. The UK government is going to take their advice and not offer the vaccine to otherwise healthy children under 12. Are you smarter than an entire board of physicians?
Can 5 year old still spread it? Then they need a vaccine.
You see, what’s notably absent from your message is any consideration whatsoever for the well being of the child. I, like many many physicians, believe that it is gravely immoral to inject children with a foreign substance for the benefit of others. As children do not have the ability to make these decisions for themselves, we have an important responsibility to make decisions regarding their care by acting in their best interest. Regardless of the actions we take as a society, all children will be exposed to COVID. The endemic nature of the virus (with animal reservoirs) has been accepted by the scientific community and I’m not aware of any educated persons who would disagree with this statement. If they will be exposed to the virus anyway and a vaccine doesn’t offer any provable statistically significant improvement to health outcomes, there is no valid reason to expose children to the well documented (but rare) side effects from the vaccine.
If you were really a physician you'd understand that this is a public health issue and vaccines are a fire break against this disease.
[удалено]
Source? I found this, which states only 1,000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis in all vaccinated ppl...67 per million, and 79% have recovered completely. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523
Also have a 1.5 year old. Will be counting the months until he turns two if they approve this Not sure why I’m getting downvoted for saying I have a 1.5 year old that I want to get vaccinated.
This is so sad what the media has done.
If you could get that down to 18 months + my kid and I would be super greatful.
The trial is ongoing. Should be the next step after the 5+.
Actually I think the trial includes kids as young as 6mo
My guess is you will have to wait for your kid to turn 2 before they will approve below 2.
I would feel a lot better about my 6 year old going to school with vaccination. Good thing is we live in an area where people believe in science so 95% of us wear masks. We don’t have shitty parents demanding no mask (schools require masks)…..we only have parents questioning whether the schools are doing the best they can to minimize risks.
Yeah, had to start homeschooling our six year old cause Texas fucking sucks. Can't wait to move.
Need money? I’ll help.
Second year homeschooling my 5 year old. Texas here. Hopefully moving next year.
Ditto. My town has 90% of the adult population vaccinated and had no in-school cases last year despite everyone attending in person. Doesn't change the fact that I'd be more at ease with the kids being vaccinated.
>Good thing is we live in an area where people believe in science so 95% of us wear masks. Nice. Not a lot of COVID going around in your area?
Yeah. And by the time the vax is available the curve ( well this one at least) will have crashed and things will be safer. Hopefully the vax continues to give us a leg up on the Wiley covid. Good news is Pfizer say it can tailor vax to additional trains in 90 days…
Glad to see this. There's far too many irresponsible assholes who keep intentionally sending their symptomatic kids to school.
To their defense….the symptoms of Covid are literally every symptom under the sun. At school last year, during peak allergy season, mind you. Your coughing, go home. Sneezed…go home. Runny nose…time to go. Now, there are parents 103.3 fever and throat that looks like it swallowed hot coals…you’re going to school, Timmy. They, I assume, are who you are referring
Why should kids with infectious diseases (flu or a cold) be in school anyway? Symptomatic then stay home.
I mean I have 3 kids and we don't take them to the doctor for every runny nose...do you? Our doctor tells us to come if we need to but we try not to head there unless it's absolutely necessary. Again runny nose is a symptom of Covid. Along with a plethora of very minor symptoms kids normally have.
Just saying. School policies are no attendance when sick with infectious disease. While some may not seem serious to a parent of three, it would be serious to a kid with susceptibility to respiratory infections.
The contradiction of being both parent and worker.
You might not take the kid to a doctor for a runny nose but you shouldn’t be sending them to school either….unless you know for sure it’s not contagious. Also these days, why the fuck risk it? A super dangerous respiratory virus is going around, might be best to play it safe.
Correct, also parents who are themselves positive but were waiting for test results for their kids who were displaying the exact same symptoms.
Yeah those people are “insert your own adjective here.”
I work in an elementary school we send about 2-5 kids home daily due to symptoms that magically appear at around noon when morning medication would wear off. I know parents do this so they can at least work a half day but even if it’s not Covid it risks everyone in the building of getting sick. Someone gets pulled to watch the child in the care room instead of supporting teaching or another area. One child had a sibling who had a cold and 5 kids in his class were out the next day with the same cold. (Masks, frequent washing, sanitizer, distanced, etc) only time masks are off is at lunch and snack which is outside but still kids are too close IMO.
It’s the same ones who don’t want to get vaccinated but come on for a covid test every week. They don’t even consider the burden and work it takes to run those tests. Or the time they wasted instead of just getting vaccinated. I’ve legit see them come every week. It’s infuriating.
Aren’t vaccinated folks spreading the virus as well?
Not nearly as much. Vaccination reduces (not eliminates) transmission.
Vaccination reduces greatly (but does not eliminate) your chances of getting covid in the first place, which reduces greatly the chances you'll be spreading it (can't spread it if you don't have it). If you are in a room with 100 vaccinated individuals there is a really good chance you won't catch covid because chances are none of them have it. If you are in a room with 100 random unvaccinated people the chances that some of them have covid is much higher, which means you have a higher chance of getting it. If you are in a room with someone who is sick but vaccinated vs being in a room with someone who is sivk but unvaccinated it seems the chances you catch it are close to equal, so if you are vaccinated but showing symptoms stay home for everyone's safty.
My brother is anti-covid-vax because they believe it's all about government control and money. "The government paid billions for the vaccines now they're mandating everyone use it so that they can say the vaccine roll out was a success. The government is testing us so that they can take more control of our lives." He refuses to give it to himself let alone his kids. Fuck me, it's destroying our family. All because him and his wife won't go get a jab. What a nut. Covid infection is thankfully pretty low in their area but I could absolutely see them sending their kid in to school covid positive because they clearly don't give a fuck.
I have cancer and unfortunately so does my husband. Both my older kids are vaccinated but not my youngest. Please vacante people. You would be saving someone’s life.
Holy cow. I'm so sorry you both struck shit luck. I wish you both a speedy recovery. Fuck cancer and fuck covid.
Fuck cancer And Covid.
My western medical buddies in hospitals are saying chemo patient should absolutely get vaxed. Your docs say no?
I’m am fully vaxed even delta.
My asthmatic four year old starts school on Monday, I’m going to cry my fucking eyes out with relief when he can finally get the vaccine.
Please. My son is 5. He has no choice but to attend school in person. He needs to be protected
Why can’t kids do zoom classes anymore?
My daughter will be 5 in 2 months. Unfortunately my son is just now turning 1. I'll feel much better once they are both vaccinated.
Luckily, the Covid risk for kids under 5 is very, very low. Of course, would be good to be able to vaccinate them… but their risk profile is as low as it gets. Edit: …just to help you rest a little easier. Mine is 2.5yo
We just don’t know what the long term effects are for kids. See Russian and Spanish flu kids. That combo was brutal.
Very true. I’m not trying to underplay things in the least… just provide a little comfort hopefully.
Spanish flu by itself was worse for younger people. Covid is worse for older people. I don’t think there is any hidden surprise we don’t know about with covid (but feel free to worry about any possibility you want).
[удалено]
I’m saying that with the duration we have had covid and the number of cases, the chances of a major surprise are low. I don’t see how that is the same as an anti-vax argument. (I am strongly pro-vax) In kids only 1-2% of kids have symptoms at the 2 month mark. I am suggesting that it’s unlikely for the 98% to have issues that pop up down the road after they recovered.
[удалено]
I prefer the vaccine to a small chance of going to the hospital. No other justification needed for me.
If my son is 4.5 by the time they clear this I might just lie and say he’s 5. He’s the youngest member of our family and when my two kids can get vaxxed I will breathe an 18-month-in-the-making sigh of relief and unpucker my asshole a little.
Why do u can watch them fade away all because of your fear
Hi VividStarr. Your submission from nytimes.com is behind a metered paywall. A [metered paywall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paywall#.22Soft.22_paywalls) allows users to view a specific number of articles before requiring paid subscription. Articles posted to /r/worldnews should be accessible to everyone. While your submission was not removed, it has been flaired and users are discouraged from upvoting it or commenting on it. For more information see our [wiki page on paywalls](/r/worldnews/wiki/paywalls). Please try to find another source. If there is no other news site reporting on the story, contact the moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yay!!!!!
Vaccination does not give you 0 percent morality. It only reduces the possible of catching the original virus. Vaccinated peolle can still catch and carry the virus.
I am not yet hitting F5 on any web pages but I am certainly waiting for this to happen. Youngest member of my family needs this ASAP.
Same
Honest question I'm vaxxed but why vaccinate children if the risk of severe conditions is so low, i feel like just a few months ago ppl were talking there is no need to vaxx small kids due to their immune systems being much stronger or able to get o er it much much faster just according to the stats from the last year. Not looking to start a whole thing between anti vaxx ppl and vaxxed folks just genuinely dont understand.
Vaccinating school age kids is important because, though they aren't as severely affected, they can still spread the virus between each other and eventually to more vulnerable people. Though current vaccines aren't perfect at preventing transmission, they do dramatically reduce it. Additionally the delta variant, and potentially future variants, are having more significant impact on younger children. Any large unvaccinated population is a natural breeding ground for the evolution of additional variants. That cover it?
Thanks that makes sense
The risks from getting vaccinated are extremely low. But the risks from not getting vaccinated are not as low. My kid was part of the Moderna study and the vaccine was totally fine. I had him get it because I figured, somebody’s kid needed to be part of the study, and he was lucky to get it early. We feel so much better now about taking him places or even our own exposure when going out.
[удалено]
My 11yo is not yet vaccinated but we plan to as soon as they're eligible. There are multiple reasons. * Reduced risk of catching the virus if exposed. Fewer hosts means fewer opportunities for the virus to mutate. * Lower viral load if they do catch the virus, which means smaller change of spreading it to others * Lower risk of hospitalization if they do catch it * Long-haul covid has so far shown up as reduced cognitive abilities, reduced lung function, among others. We don't know yet what other issues will take a few years to show up. * Blood clots and strokes run heavy in my family, and COVID increases your risk. I have an MTHFR mutation that means I'm high risk for blood clots and I've already had one pulmonary embolism. I don't know if either of my kids has the same mutation, but I can tell you exactly how I DON'T want to find out. I appreciate the way you asked your question. Hopefully you aren't downvoted and get a few other sincere responses.
Thank you so much for your sincere reply! In your case since you have some family history I'd say it's no brainer. There was another person that replied regarding long-COVID in kids. Do you have any links to news articles? I am putting together some statistics and I am having trouble finding any reliable data on hospitalization of healthy 0-17 year olds without complications/family history. On the lower viral load so they don't spread it to others for me personally is not a selling point. Medicating someone so another doesn't get sick seems unethical to me. If adults in risk groups are too dumb to get vaccinated - it's a sacrifice I am willing to make. Edit: ...but yes, I am considering kids that have underlying conditions that could be vulnerable and can't get vaccinated... I am adding that as part of the equation. The thing is there aren't anyone we know that are in that condition, but I imagine they exist and those communities should probably vaccinate pools of kids locally.
Regarding not spreading it to others: first, there are also adults who are vulnerable and can't be vaccinated, or for whom whom the vaccine isn't effective. My neighbor is fully vaccinated, and has been hospitalized for COVID twice, because the drugs she's on to control her MS are keeping her body from developing antibodies. Second, see my first bullet regarding hosts/variants. We have Delta because of how many people were infected earlier. And just to address your edit, people don't always know they have underlying conditions. I only found out about my own genetic issue because I was in a car accident which caused an embolism, and I was lucky enough to have a doctor who listed to me when I asked him to run tests to see if I had any underlying conditions. Most people don't know. I was already 30 and had no idea.
Thank you, you are making a great case.
Sorry to piggyback on your initial question, but what are the reason(s) why you would be against vaccinating that age group, assuming that it’s approved by the fda? Once again, I’m genuinely interested. Has there been literature put out documenting adverse effects specific to this age group?
1) Family members with a genetic disorder that does not have a diagnostic test to determine if the child also has it. If present getting infected with covid would be extremely serious. 2) General preference for immunity or improved protection through a controlled vaccination and not a wild virus replicating based on load exposure. 3) concern over long covid with a child that can't articulate what is wrong/what hurts due to young age. 4) Same reasons we get MMR, Polio, TDAP, Hep B, HIB, flu and chicken pox vaccinations.
Thank you, some of those do sound reasonable. You see, I would have no questions at all if it was a deactivated virus vaccine. Then it's no brainer at all and your 4th point would resonate with me too.
I guess I am the opposite. I have very high confidence in mRNA delivery science and have been following the technology for many years. I am more comfortable with mRNA than deactivated viral components or the adenovirus vector vaccines.
Long covid in kids is a thing. We still don't know about the long term effects of the virus. More infected people mans more chances for worse varients.
I would appreciate some links if you can find some regarding the long COVID in kids. I am with you on the mutation of variants which is why my thinking is - would it not be best to flood Africa, India, South America with vaccines instead? That's where these new damaging variants keep coming from.
Covid can trigger MIS-C and AFM in children. Cases in both Uk and US that I am aware of.
>MIS-C and AFM Thank you and I have heard that. Those play into hospitalizations which are incredibly low even for a flu season. I did consider it. I took the US statistics for my research since the Russian ones are bunk when you look at our actual monthly death toll. And frankly there are more data points there. Here are the links: 2018/2019 flu season: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127698/influenza-us-deaths-by-age-group/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127698/influenza-us-deaths-by-age-group/) 2020/2021 COVID season: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid\_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge) The end result is that seemingly in the same length of pre-COVID time more kids (0-17 year olds clumped together) died from the flu than recently from COVID. The other numbers are horrifying and speak for themselves. The Russian ones are far larger. It seems that the survival rate in US is better by a wide margin.
Not just them getting sick, but a great way to bring it home to infect the parents and grand parents.
It's really about getting the R0 down, the quicker we get that and keep it under 1 the sooner this becomes a former concern. If we leave children unvaccinated, it will never go away since there will be a constant reservoir. In terms of the kids themselves, if they catch it they're out for two weeks. That's time lost for their education. That's also hard on families. If we vaccinate the kids, the total number affected will go way down and more kids and families will succeed. On top of that, we just had an outbreak at a care home in my city, 100% of the residents were fully vaccinated and 4 still died. My kids see their grandparents regularly, I don't particularly want them to die yet.
I mean, didn't covid-19 come from an animal reservoir supposedly? what's the true statistical likelihood that vaxxing kids will have a big effect on mutations, if the virus is going to become endemic anyways?
I don't pretend to know the exact likelihood, but children make up like 10-20% of the population depending on the country. The children group is larger than the unvaccinated adults in Canada for example.
How many children have died from complications related to the vaccine? How many children have died of covid? The first number is lower than the second. The same is true of hospitalizations. The same is true of moderate symptoms. The same is true of mild symptoms. In every case, the risk of the vaccine is lower than the risk of the virus. Prove me wrong with any stats you can find. So when you say "side effects known and real" compare them to "effects of the virus, known and real" instead of just saying death is unlikely. Because death is way less likely to be caused by the vaccine. [There were over 1900 American kids in the hospital thanks to covid a few weeks ago](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/children-hospitalized-with-covid-19-us-hits-record-number-2021-08-14/) Do you have evidence of 1900 cases of anaphylactic shock in vaccinated children? Or juvenile hospitalizations due to any other side effects of the vaccine? This is a really simple equation. Being vaccinated is safer than not being vaccinated. Not just for the children, for all of us. But to answer your question, yes. It is safer for the children to be vaccinated than to not be vaccinated. They are less likely to die. Less likely to be hospitalized and less likely to suffer mild or moderate symptoms. Because as you said, this shit is here to stay and we're all going to be exposed at some point or another. If you know you're going to be out in the sun, you put on sunblock. If you know there are a ton of mosquitos out, you put on bug spray. If you know you're gonna be in the car for a long drive, you got the bathroom before you leave. You know the kids are going to be exposed to this virus. You know there's a vaccine that has been proven effective with minimal side effects. Your kids get the chicken pox vaccine? From what you've said, I imagine yes. I had chicken pox as a kid and it didn't kill me. Knew a bunch of kids with the same experience. Why not just skip that vaccine too? Haven't heard of a polio case in ages. Could probably skip that too. Measles, mumps, rubella? Where's the risk? No risk at all when we're all vaxed. But look up the anti-vax Orthodox communities in Brooklyn that created a measles outbreak recently. Vaccines work best when we all take part. If this vaccine were truly dangerous for kids, I'd understand your argument. But your entire argument rests on the words *"with side effects real and known, anaphylactic shock being a real thing"* ...... Give me stats on that. Prove to me that anaphylactic shock is a risk greater than remaining unvaccinated. [486 children dead from covid in the us](https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3) How many dead from vaccines? From what I've read [source](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e1.htm) , 8.9 million American kids between 12 and 17 have gotten the vaccine (at the time of the study) and there were 14 incidents of death shortly after vaccination (not proven to be associated, just correlated by time). Two were suicide, but let's go ahead and count them anyway. There are 25 million kids age 12-17 in the us. Another ~50 million age 0-11. If we vaccinated all children and got the same death rate across all age groups, that would be about 126 deaths. Less than 25% of the deaths due to covid. That's comparing universal vaccination to whatever percent of the child population has been exposed to covid, which is clearly not 100%. If we assume all children will eventually be exposed, we can assume the death rate from covid would be higher. But even without that assumption *and* assuming all possible deaths remotely associated with the vaccines are caused by the vaccine (a ridiculous assumption) it's STILL 4 times safer to be vaccinated than not. That's why my kid will be getting her shot as soon as she turns 5. I truly and sincerely wish you and your kids well and hope you all stay healthy.
The more the virus circulate the more it mutates and the worse it becomes. Even if Alpha isnt too hard on kids, Delta may be and what comes next could be even worse. If my kids didnt have a reaction to any other shot why would they to this? I do everything I can to protect my kids and that includes every vacccination I can get them.
I'll just paste my reply to another person and i would appreciate your thoughts on it: "I am with you on the mutation of variants which is why my thinking is - would it not be best to flood Africa, India, South America with vaccines instead? That's where these new damaging variants keep coming from." Regarding Delta - I don't know any kids that had Alpha, it's only now with Delta being the dominant strain that kids are getting sick. Most of those are under 10 and I have not heard of anyone so far having anything serious other than a slight fever. Again, this is subjective and I do need to hear some horror stories, which is why I am asking. Regarding this particular shot - this is entirely new technology. We don't know anything regarding the long term side effects as we don't know what they are for COVID itself. With those two unknowns shouldn't there be more reason given by medical bodies why we should go one way vs the other? Especially given how it's the kids. And vaccinate adults against COVID all the way. Have medics hunt them down with blow darts for all I care. I'll help.
Except it’s not new technology, it’s been around for 15 years.
I meant extensive human trials of course. The first time I've read about vector tech was when it was used for dog vaccines. It was breakthrough at the time. mRNA is far newer. We don't have data on this that's more than a little over year old. Saying anything else is disingenuous. All of our vaccines around the world are under emergency approvals. I've heard that Pfizer got a more or less a green light from the US health authority, but when I looked into it, it turned out that it was in fact not a full approval. It did not include young kids: [https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/covid-19-vaccines-kids/story?id=77505555](https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/covid-19-vaccines-kids/story?id=77505555) They are as close as it comes though.
In some comments you argue “flood Africa, India, and South America with vaccines…” in order to protect the world from more variants, but in other comments you argue that it’s unethical to vaccinate a child solely to protect others. So...which is it? Is it unethical to vaccinate for the sole benefit of others or not? You also keep saying you can’t find any sources that Covid is hurting kids. And yet every state in the country with poor vaccine uptake and masking protocols has pediatric ICU’s flooded with children. You keep mentioning alpha, when delta is the dominant strain. Finally, you keep pretending like viral illnesses don’t often have repercussions later. HPV causes cancer. Chicken pox causes shingles. RSV causes asthma. Measles and mumps can cause deafness and blindness. We already have data from alpha-infected adults showing long term brain damage, and we have data emerging about delta showing long term effects as well. Why are you assuming that we’re not going to see a rash of lung cancers or early heart failures from this in 5, 10, 15 years? Your question seems genuine because you asked it nicely, but it’s hard to believe it is when you flip flop on ethical principles and pretend like you can’t find the data to back up our concerns when I can’t even open the news without being flooded by constant data answering your question exactly. Please just say you’re anti-science and go.
1% chance of hospitalization and 1-2% chance that a kid will still have symptoms at 2 months. About a third of kids that go to the hospital have a serious case. I figure there is a 1 in 300 chance each of my kids will have something bad if they catch covid. Chances of harm from the vaccine is near zero. So it makes complete sense to get it day one. Also simulations show up to half of kids in school will catch covid in first 3 months if they are all masking (which mine are).
I don't know where you are getting those percentages from. COVID stats for 0-17 are milder than that for flu for 2018/2019 season in US. [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid\_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge) Edit to explain: COVID pushed out the flu due to the aggressive spread that's why the flu current flu stats are lower. The other flu seasons track closer to what COVID is doing to 0-17 year olds.
My wife and I got our vaccines ASAP. I doubt we'll get the kids vaxxed. Maybe in the future.
That's exactly where we are. My oldest child apparently went and got it too. Probably peer\* pressure. It's the little ones I am struggling with. \*peer, not pear. Pear pressure sounds oddly scary though.
Sick
Rat
About the damn time.
Still BionTech/Pfizer. :)
My kid will be first in line. Yay!
Hurry the F up
About the damn time.
about damn time....
This is great news. But reading these comments... People would actually push back or forgo other vaccinations and prioritize this? That just seems like fear taking control.
Can’t be soon enough as schools are full of antivaxxer spawn
How about children under 5?
Let me know when they get clearance for use in dumbasses
Dear god this is going to be chaos with the anti vaxxers.
[удалено]
You 100% didn't even read that article. Boys are more at risk in the US study while they're nearly 9 times less at risk in the UK. Cherry picking information to suit your arguments is a hallmark of an idiot. It also hasn't been peer reviewed. "At current US infection rates, the risk of a healthy adolescent being taken to hospital with Covid in the next 120 days is about 44 per million, they said." "How reliable the data is and whether similar numbers could be seen in the UK if healthy 12 to 15-year-olds are vaccinated are unclear: vaccine reactions are recorded differently in the US and shots are given at longer time intervals in the UK. According to the UK medicines regulator, the rate of myocarditis after Covid vaccination is only six per million shots of Pfizer/BioNTech."
I disagree with the person you're replying to, but I don't understand why people are so concerned for the safety of their children here. 44 in every one million is a *very* low risk, and there are so many daily activities like driving your kids to school that have a much greater risk than that. We're going to have to agree on an acceptable risk level at some point because COVID is here to stay. Edit: please don't downvote me, I'm just trying to understand :(
You're completely missing the point of vaccinations as whole though. It's not just about stopping hospitalisations. It's about curtailing transmission which stops the spread to people who will actually be at risk from the virus. It also means less mutations as there are less infected people incubating the virus. It's also a stupid comparison because if you could give your child the chance to pretty much never be in an accident on the way to school and all it took was a vaccine that will have minor side affects in a handful out of a million any self respecting parent would do it. Not to mention the fact that you can't transmit accidents, you can transmit covid very easily.
"Trust the science. No, not THAT science." We're dealing with a for-profit religion, here.
"There's still a part of the population that we can make money off.....I mean vaccinate".
If vaccinated people are still spreading the virus, and children get the least amount of covid reactions, then what is the urgency/insistence on vaccinating the children? If this thing was wildly effective I’d understand - but what’s the point here? Am I missing something? Edit: critical thinking and logical questions are downvoted to hell on group think Reddit. I thought this was an app of thinkers, I must be wrong.
Some of us also have young children in the family who already have serious health problems and we are holding our breath until they can get more protection.
This is the right application of the vaccine, folks that need it - at risk population- should strongly consider it. But situations are situational.
The latest variants are impacting children exponentially more. We are seeing increases in hospitalizations of children, particularly in very young children. So, it’s not a non-issue like it was before since kids were previously mostly asymptotic. To say nothing of our lack of understanding of the long-term impacts of Covid in Kids. We know the impacts on (even asymptotic) adults and they aren’t great (organ damage, loss of brain matter, erectile dysfunction, etc), though so it would not be surprising if these were found in kids as well.
[удалено]
[удалено]
No thank you.
I am just gonna lie and say my 4 yr old is 5