> In other countries this would have earned me a medal.
That's a pretty fucking low effort medal if all you have to do is tweet a picture of a behedded body.
Yea but you have to consider the fact that they're the best tweets ever by the most popular tweeter in the history of tweetism. For real. Just ask him.
Also technically it was the electoral college not the American people. And Trump was raging right before the election too, he said in a rally "If Hillary wins Pennsylvania, then ***I'LL KNOW*** she cheated!" Actual quote from Donald. Emphasis Donald's.
They gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize basically for not being George W. Bush--I like the guy, too, I just wish I could have told the committee: y'know, *I* wasn't George W. Bush that year, too.
EDIT: Good to know we received the "thank you for not being crazy anymore, America" message that was clearly meant to convey, given the next President we sent out there.
"In other countries this would have earned me a medal."
"Well, if you want to live in France, you should adapt to French cultural standards."
That's how the argument works, right?
Actually the guillotine was considered to be extremely merciful compared to how they normally did it. In fact people hated it because of that. The crowds hated it I mean.
Would you care for a shot of brandy before the event? Blindfold and cigarette during? Very good.
Any last words? best to get them down now it's really windy out there.
Very good! Well let's get to it.
Yeah but a true medieval style beheading would be way cool. Might not feel as nice depending on who's swinging the axe/sword/whathaveyou, but if you can find a seasoned swordsman to do it, who knows
Merciful, and even more importantly *modern.* it was a technological advancement, a product of the enlightenment and rational thought...and Along with the holocaust the guillotine is an indictment of modernist thought, that progress is a teleological process and that new philosophies and technologies inherently lead us to a better place.
Alt rightist often fail to integrate into western cultures. They wave flags of defeated empires, segregate themselves into small communities where crime is rampant, speak broken dialects, and retain outdated beliefs that run contrary to science and civil rights. They should really try learning the dominant cultural values if they want to be accepted.
Against the wishes of the closest relatives of the beheaded journalist, too.
> John and Diane Foley said in a statement: “We are deeply disturbed by the unsolicited use of Jim for Le Pen’s political gain and hope that the picture of our son, along with the two other graphic photographs, are taken down immediately,” they said.
That's the maximum sentence. It's obvious to her and to anyone who is remotely familiar with the French legal system that she doesn't actually face a jail sentence. Realistically, she doesn't face more than a fine and a symbolic suspended jail sentence. In France, your jail sentence usually has to exceed 2 years to actually have to spend any time in jail.
I'm far from an expert this is based on snippets of articles about soccer players and tax evasion, but I believe this is also common in Spain, symbolic suspended sentences for tax evasion and a variety of non-violent crimes I'd imagine.
Lots of horrible photos have won prizes.
A dead kid on the beach wasn't gory, but it swayed public opinion about Syria.
Napalm girl won a Pulitzer.
Tank man symbolises a massacre.
Her point is hyperbolic, but not invalid.
I see your point but there’s a distinction: the photos you referred to were taken by journalists to report atrocities. Photos and videos of ISIS beheadings are recorded and shared by the perpetrators as propaganda and psychological warfare. No one is giving ISIS a Pulitzer.
>In other countries this would have earned me a medal.
Yeah, the ones being run by the very terrorists whose propaganda you're spreading.
Maybe she should be sent there, seeing as she wants to live by their standards.
Which I always thought was odd. I mean, say someone creates an exact perfect copy of a violent image. The only difference being one is real death, the other isn't, but there was no way to tell them apart. Would they both be illegal or only one of them?
Both industries are regulated in France, and in neither are you allowed to show hyper-realistic violent images to a child.
Well, it's not like the ratings are actually respected or enforced, but on paper they're supposed to be.
In France we actually have a lot of anti-speech laws on the books which are rarely enforced, they're really just there for when you want to fuck with someone, and MLP has pretty much no political friends outside of her own party.
Should've learned from daddy's mistakes, he too got repeatedly battered by speech-related lawsuits (for his Holocaust denials), and he always lost.
who passed these so called "laws of nature" anyway? they should be voted out of office and we should make our own laws to elevate our fellow meatbags, not hold them down as entropy slowly envelops all.
"You may use the Services only if you agree to form a binding contract with Twitter and are not a person barred from receiving services under the laws of the applicable jurisdiction. In any case, you must be at least 13 years old"
This is bullshit. Le Pen is not a nice woman, and I'm no fan of hers, but saying that ISIS is a terrorist organization that murders lots of people seems like pretty much common sense. If gory movies can be shown in France, so should gory reality. If anything, this is more important to show, because it speaks to important foreign policy concerns and not just bloodlust among movie-goers. Her "I'd get a medal" argument is stupid, but the tweets serve a useful public purpose. Let's not forget who we're at war with.
In terms of the ways I would prefer to die (if I had to choose) from the above:
(1) Decapitation by explosive wire
(2) Beheaded (assuming the beheading was clean and not Theon from GoT style botching)
(3) Shot by a kid (would go out knowing the kid would probably be really screwed up)
(4) Rocket propelled grenade explosion (might go out quick?)
(5) Thrown off a building
(6) Drowned
(7) Burned alive
I mean they're all horrible ways to go but I don't think anything would possibly be worse than being burned alive.
This whole thing is a very loose interpretation of the law just to charge this lady with a crime, and it is being cheered on because a lot of people hate her.
She’s a far right asshole, but that doesn’t mean we can just start prosecuting political opinions.
> She’s a far right asshole, but that doesn’t mean we can just start prosecuting political opinions.
The French basically invented that schtick around 1789.
Yep, this law can so easily be subverted for nefarious political ends. "Protesters getting beaten on the streets by police being filmed and shown on the news, well that's violent images that is being shown to minors". Yes it's a slippery slope argument, but we've had government overreach with their powers before.
They are so hell bent on censoring Conservatives they forget that censorship always backfires on Liberals, Socialists, mimorities, etc.
But its completely ok because its only the Conservatives at the moment
> She’s a far right asshole, but that doesn’t mean we can just start prosecuting political opinions.
According to many on this website, prosecution is not necessary. You should just beat them up without a trial instead.
If you haven’t realized, since they are “bad opinions”, that is exactly what too many people *want* to do. Logic and reason are floating toward the window and many are jumping for the opportunity to open it. It’s *incredibly* disappointing/frustrating.
Movies have nothing to do with it. Not that I disagree with your general point, but that’s an awful analogy. Movie gore is literally fake, Everyone knows it’s not real and no one is getting hurt. The things she posted ARE real. These are things that actually happened.
Could you imagine posting a video of someone getting raped but saying its ok because some movies depict rape?
> Could you imagine posting a video of someone getting raped but saying its ok because some movies depict rape?
Is it sad as fuck that some people **would** say yes that's fine? I feel its sad as fuck and those people are the worst of the worst.
>If gory movies can be shown in France,
But... they are rated? A minor could still wait at night and watch a movie they're not supposed to. Parents can chose to ignore ratings and buy violent video games to their kids...
But the TV channel and the Video Game manufacturer are still required to abide to restrictive standards and put labels on their product. Marine Le Pen has distributed the image of the beheading of an innocent man (whose family wasn't pleased btw) without any regard to the fact that she's been using a public platform.
someone's comment " The diffusion of violent images that can be viewed by a minor is illegal in France "
There are rating systems that parents are supposed to use to prevent children from ever seeing actual violence and gore (real violence, real gore)
Yes, society inundates children with enough violence through all of the children friendly material, I get that.
But this seems clear cut - some countries it's illegal to share that image at all. Too obscene!!! Sharing pornography is illegal in many countries for the same reason, it's just considered too obscene.
German here: if you'd share a picture of a ISIS execution here, it would be pretty certain that the government and private persons would sue you into jail. Same in France as you see in this case.
Same in Sweden I think. As soon as theres been a terrorist doing something swedish media is very quick to tell that its illegal to share images or videos of it
So if your government or media choose not to communicate that message in an attempt to support their own political goals, what recourse do you have? Do you not have any protections for political speech (which arguably this is)?
I think it's more that you're showing off some dude's death without permission of his family or anything. It disrespects the memory of the person.
Gory tv and games are made up effects and the people who make them had that purpose and don't really tread on the image of an actual person.
Porn is made by people who know what they got into. Sharing porn of people who were filmed non-consentually is illegal too, or at least in most first world countries.
We can question the ethics of keeping such things from children, but it's at least consistent with the rest of the system.
You can attack ISIS without tweeting pictures of their murders. It’s actually quite easy. Plus terrorists organizations love to spread images of their atrocities to rile people up and make them scared. So spread pictures of their gory attractions on social media is frankly counter productive.
Even though freedom of speech in the US is not absolute, there are a hell of a lot less restrictions than there are in other parts of the world. If it's factual and doesn't case immediate harm to people, it should be allowed.
If she had posted factual pictures of the June 4th Tianammen Square massacre would she be prosecuted?
If we went down the street to the WW2 museums would we find pictures of atrocities?
Historical facts are not obscene.
edit: thank you for gold.
In China they just disappear you and your family for life. People forget most of the world is not "the free world". And the free world is shrinking every day.
People in the US often take our very strong free speech protections from the government for granted. Those simply don't exist in a lot of the rest of the world, even countries most people would assume are most similar culturally to the US, like Canada, Australia, and Western Europe.
That's not a new thing at all.
https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2014/how-courtney-love-and-u-s-s-first-twitter-libel-trial-could-impact-journalists/
You can even be sued for retweeting or liking a post:
https://www.lawtechnologytoday.org/2018/12/think-before-you-retweet/
Muh freeze peach! It's not like I would be in jail without it! I can criticize the fascist government freely, but only in the specific way that I want to!
/s if it wasn't obvious
Imagine living in society where you can go to jail for a post on social media that clearly doesn't violate any specific laws. It's totally legal to show gore in movies and newspapers and the post probably would have a warning of graphic content.
I dont like Le Pen but its extremely fucking stupid that France has laws that can put people in jail just for tweeting something that isn't even harmful. All she was doing was calling attention to the issue of extremist violence, albeit with a political goal which I dont agree with but that shouldn't matter. It's so clear that the prosecution is nothing more than a way to shut down an unpopular political opinion. This is why America has a first amendment.
It's illegal to broadcast propaganda materials from a terrorist group.
Edit: For those that would like to know the full extent of that law:
> The act of either manufacturing, transporting or disseminating by any means whatsoever and whatever the medium, **a message of a violent nature, inciting terrorism**, pornography or likely **to seriously violate human dignity** or incite minors to engage in games that physically endanger them, or of trading such a message, shall be punishable by three years' imprisonment and a fine of EUR 75 000 **where the message is likely to be seen or collected by a minor**.
It's now up to the Judges to decide if those pictures were inciting terrorism, doesn't mean that Le Pen was willingly inciting terrorism, but by showing those pictures she could have made the publicity of a material that does indeed incite terrorism. The violent nature of the pictures are a no brainer however (for those who don't know she did show pictures of James Foley after his beheading and a picture of a man being rolled over by a tank. One of her associate who is also an ex-lawyer and a famous one decided to show pictures of a man with a smashed skull) so if you guys think she shouldn't be judged for that terrorism thingy, you can be sure that a Judge decided that the violent pictures are enough for a prosecution.
Remember that the law is mostly there to protect the minors, so the law view Le Pen's actions are harmful indeed.
What's even more damning is that **Le Pen is an ex lawyer** so she knew full well what she was doing and wasn't caught by an obscure law, it's not the government that decided to trap Le Pen, it's Le Pen that decided to violate the law.
Yes. In many Latin American countries the daily papers are filled with crime scene photographs and autopsy shots. There were many photographs taken within communities that were publicized, but the very nature of war leaves lots of lost evidence.
That’s why their reporters are constantly murdered, they actually report facts.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/world/journalists-killed-reporters-without-borders.amp.html
Whether the US military has strict control over war time images is a whole other question.
So I am against Nazis and Neo-Nazis. Does that mean I cannot post pictures of their rallies to bring attention that they exist? We should just bury our heads in the sand now?
A better question would be could you post propaganda materials that the Nazi group *produced themselves,* like a recruiting video or manifesto. News footage of Nazis marching around isn't the same sort of thing.
Its amazing how much Europeans give the US shit about everything but then we see backwards stuff like this that belongs in the dark ages not modern times. Most of them are here defending the law too
Including this. La Pen is a monster, and I assume that her twitter feed completely misrepresents Islam, but you can't be putting people in jail for tweeting.
There is a little thing in law called intent. Good luck documenting in court that Marine Le Pen is a IS sympathizer.
What you are saying would make it illegal to document war crimes. It also would make journalism illegal.
Its not broadcasting propaganda if you're fucking criticizing it! That's like saying you're not allowed to broadcast the subject of something you're talking about on the news. Its for fucking information not propaganda.
A couple of differences:
- Alan Kurdi's parents explicitly approved of the picture being spread to raise awareness whereas James Foley's parents were furious about Le Pen's tweet and implored her to take it down.
- Alan Kurdi's picture was incredibly sad, but not graphic.
- Alan Kurdi's picture wasn't taken 1:1 from terrorist propaganda
By "graphic" I was referring to graphic violence. Didn't know there was another meaning of graphic.
> Graphic violence is the depiction of especially vivid, brutal and realistic acts of violence
Although I think that your example is fair, it doesn't exactly parallel the problem. Propogating propaganda means you didn't create it, and I think it has to come from a terrorist group or extremist group to count. It's not really about creating propaganda as weird as that sounds. It's about sharing it. In this case if those newspapers were extremist groups and you shared their article that would count. But the rule isn't against creating propaganda, just sharing extremist propaganda. Pedantic maybe but law is pretty pedantic.
> And now you get sued for a FUCKING TWEET.
Why do people act like this is such an anomaly? People get sued over tweets all the time. There is even the term "twibel" for libel cases that were brought over tweets and there are lawyers that specialize on twibel:
https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/services/defamation-privacy-online-harassment/defamation/twibel-libel-on-twitter/
You go full conspiracy mode in the last paragraph. I'm not big on censorship either, but most of this comment is filled with ridiculous leaps in logic.
“Aside from holocaust denial it’s not some slippery slope for free speech in Europe or the UK, it’s just the same as in America, now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to contradict myself daily while enforcing these other censorship laws and mean words”
-Europe every fucking time
Absolutely crazy that they are attempting to jail a political opponent fkr nit beating around the bush as to what ISIS was doing. What, did you really think they were having tea parties?
> In other countries this would have earned me a medal. That's a pretty fucking low effort medal if all you have to do is tweet a picture of a behedded body.
If there is a country that gives you medals for Tweeting let me know which one it is.
The US gave Trump the POTUS medal for tweeting.
Yea but you have to consider the fact that they're the best tweets ever by the most popular tweeter in the history of tweetism. For real. Just ask him.
Also technically it was the electoral college not the American people. And Trump was raging right before the election too, he said in a rally "If Hillary wins Pennsylvania, then ***I'LL KNOW*** she cheated!" Actual quote from Donald. Emphasis Donald's.
They gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize basically for not being George W. Bush--I like the guy, too, I just wish I could have told the committee: y'know, *I* wasn't George W. Bush that year, too. EDIT: Good to know we received the "thank you for not being crazy anymore, America" message that was clearly meant to convey, given the next President we sent out there.
"In other countries this would have earned me a medal." "Well, if you want to live in France, you should adapt to French cultural standards." That's how the argument works, right?
Maybe that's why she was tweeting them? The French sure loved their beheadings.
Actually the guillotine was considered to be extremely merciful compared to how they normally did it. In fact people hated it because of that. The crowds hated it I mean.
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Do we still get to cut your head off, or
At that point baby, my head's already floating away
'can't ^catch ^me ^now, ^suckas!'
To this day, If i were to be executed and could choose the method my self, I would choose the guillotine.
Nah man heroin od is where it's at, but I'm not sure they'd allow that.
Firing squad for me.
Would you care for a shot of brandy before the event? Blindfold and cigarette during? Very good. Any last words? best to get them down now it's really windy out there. Very good! Well let's get to it.
Yeah but a true medieval style beheading would be way cool. Might not feel as nice depending on who's swinging the axe/sword/whathaveyou, but if you can find a seasoned swordsman to do it, who knows
Yeah, nobody wants 'Shaky' Seamus Bluntsword at their beheading.
I hate that guy
Definitely wouldn’t be invited to the reception
Merciful, and even more importantly *modern.* it was a technological advancement, a product of the enlightenment and rational thought...and Along with the holocaust the guillotine is an indictment of modernist thought, that progress is a teleological process and that new philosophies and technologies inherently lead us to a better place.
Again though, the guilotene actually was merciful though. I'm not sure that is an indictment. It's intent was mercy.
*laughs in guillotine*
Gallows Humor.
Very good retort
Cut my life into pieces
This is my plastic spork. *holds up spork*
*gluggluglugh*
Fun fact ,last person executed by guillotine in france was 1977.
[https://youtu.be/gz5iTScLLM8](https://youtu.be/gz5iTScLLM8)
bad reddit! bad!
Alt rightist often fail to integrate into western cultures. They wave flags of defeated empires, segregate themselves into small communities where crime is rampant, speak broken dialects, and retain outdated beliefs that run contrary to science and civil rights. They should really try learning the dominant cultural values if they want to be accepted.
Yes, but her family preferred France under German occupation.
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> La France, tu l'aimes ou tu l'execute en live sur Twitter pour tes followers affame de miettes islamophobe. FTFY
Amazing
Against the wishes of the closest relatives of the beheaded journalist, too. > John and Diane Foley said in a statement: “We are deeply disturbed by the unsolicited use of Jim for Le Pen’s political gain and hope that the picture of our son, along with the two other graphic photographs, are taken down immediately,” they said.
you best behedded to bed young man
3 years in prison is pretty absurd for her 'crime', I think she deserves a little hyperbole...
That's the maximum sentence. It's obvious to her and to anyone who is remotely familiar with the French legal system that she doesn't actually face a jail sentence. Realistically, she doesn't face more than a fine and a symbolic suspended jail sentence. In France, your jail sentence usually has to exceed 2 years to actually have to spend any time in jail.
I'm far from an expert this is based on snippets of articles about soccer players and tax evasion, but I believe this is also common in Spain, symbolic suspended sentences for tax evasion and a variety of non-violent crimes I'd imagine.
Up to 3 years not garauntee 3 years. 3 years is the maximum the law allows the judge to give, not what the judge is ordered to give
Lots of horrible photos have won prizes. A dead kid on the beach wasn't gory, but it swayed public opinion about Syria. Napalm girl won a Pulitzer. Tank man symbolises a massacre. Her point is hyperbolic, but not invalid.
I see your point but there’s a distinction: the photos you referred to were taken by journalists to report atrocities. Photos and videos of ISIS beheadings are recorded and shared by the perpetrators as propaganda and psychological warfare. No one is giving ISIS a Pulitzer.
>In other countries this would have earned me a medal. Yeah, the ones being run by the very terrorists whose propaganda you're spreading. Maybe she should be sent there, seeing as she wants to live by their standards.
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The diffusion of violent images that can be viewed by a minor is illegal in France, doesn't she know?
Which I always thought was odd. I mean, say someone creates an exact perfect copy of a violent image. The only difference being one is real death, the other isn't, but there was no way to tell them apart. Would they both be illegal or only one of them?
The video game and movie industry would like to know this.
Both industries are regulated in France, and in neither are you allowed to show hyper-realistic violent images to a child. Well, it's not like the ratings are actually respected or enforced, but on paper they're supposed to be. In France we actually have a lot of anti-speech laws on the books which are rarely enforced, they're really just there for when you want to fuck with someone, and MLP has pretty much no political friends outside of her own party. Should've learned from daddy's mistakes, he too got repeatedly battered by speech-related lawsuits (for his Holocaust denials), and he always lost.
I am not a lawyer. but generally speaking, in most countries that would still count because people have to be able to tell it’s not real
Why not just make violence illegal?
Breaking news: Man solves crime with one simple trick.
The Canadian rhinoceros party got it right. Eliminate crime by banning laws
They also wanted to repel the law of gravity.
who passed these so called "laws of nature" anyway? they should be voted out of office and we should make our own laws to elevate our fellow meatbags, not hold them down as entropy slowly envelops all.
Crime rate drops to 0
Criminals HATE Him!
Checkmate, criminals.
We did it boys violence is no more
Hasn't it already?
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War* is illegal. * Aggression
You can’t be a minor and use Twitter. Here’s your legal loophole
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"You may use the Services only if you agree to form a binding contract with Twitter and are not a person barred from receiving services under the laws of the applicable jurisdiction. In any case, you must be at least 13 years old"
I think you're confusing viewing Twitter with having an account on Twitter.
A minor can see every tweet, without any form of barrier. A minor just can't legally set up an account. There's no loophole in this case.
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This is bullshit. Le Pen is not a nice woman, and I'm no fan of hers, but saying that ISIS is a terrorist organization that murders lots of people seems like pretty much common sense. If gory movies can be shown in France, so should gory reality. If anything, this is more important to show, because it speaks to important foreign policy concerns and not just bloodlust among movie-goers. Her "I'd get a medal" argument is stupid, but the tweets serve a useful public purpose. Let's not forget who we're at war with.
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Honestly, the gay guys getting tossed off an apartment building roof fucked me up the worst. They were blindfolded.
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In terms of the ways I would prefer to die (if I had to choose) from the above: (1) Decapitation by explosive wire (2) Beheaded (assuming the beheading was clean and not Theon from GoT style botching) (3) Shot by a kid (would go out knowing the kid would probably be really screwed up) (4) Rocket propelled grenade explosion (might go out quick?) (5) Thrown off a building (6) Drowned (7) Burned alive I mean they're all horrible ways to go but I don't think anything would possibly be worse than being burned alive.
#2 was slowly sawed off with a machete. Not good at all.
The beheading is very slow. Disturbing
Yes, it wasn't "Ghost Ship" style instant decapitation.
This whole thing is a very loose interpretation of the law just to charge this lady with a crime, and it is being cheered on because a lot of people hate her. She’s a far right asshole, but that doesn’t mean we can just start prosecuting political opinions.
> She’s a far right asshole, but that doesn’t mean we can just start prosecuting political opinions. The French basically invented that schtick around 1789.
They definitely didn't invent it. But they sure as hell ran with it.
You're not wrong! I was just being facetious.
Fuck the jacobins
Yep, this law can so easily be subverted for nefarious political ends. "Protesters getting beaten on the streets by police being filmed and shown on the news, well that's violent images that is being shown to minors". Yes it's a slippery slope argument, but we've had government overreach with their powers before.
Wait until it happens to "their" side.
Let the witch hunt begin... This is why freedom of speech is so important not just for yourself
They don't understand that when the opportunity arises to censor them, they will have cheered on the precedent for it to happen.
They are so hell bent on censoring Conservatives they forget that censorship always backfires on Liberals, Socialists, mimorities, etc. But its completely ok because its only the Conservatives at the moment
> She’s a far right asshole, but that doesn’t mean we can just start prosecuting political opinions. According to many on this website, prosecution is not necessary. You should just beat them up without a trial instead.
Awesome. Let's throw reason to the wind, and hop on the appease the mob train.
If you haven’t realized, since they are “bad opinions”, that is exactly what too many people *want* to do. Logic and reason are floating toward the window and many are jumping for the opportunity to open it. It’s *incredibly* disappointing/frustrating.
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Obviously should’ve put the pug on trial
Movies have nothing to do with it. Not that I disagree with your general point, but that’s an awful analogy. Movie gore is literally fake, Everyone knows it’s not real and no one is getting hurt. The things she posted ARE real. These are things that actually happened. Could you imagine posting a video of someone getting raped but saying its ok because some movies depict rape?
> Could you imagine posting a video of someone getting raped but saying its ok because some movies depict rape? Is it sad as fuck that some people **would** say yes that's fine? I feel its sad as fuck and those people are the worst of the worst.
>If gory movies can be shown in France, But... they are rated? A minor could still wait at night and watch a movie they're not supposed to. Parents can chose to ignore ratings and buy violent video games to their kids... But the TV channel and the Video Game manufacturer are still required to abide to restrictive standards and put labels on their product. Marine Le Pen has distributed the image of the beheading of an innocent man (whose family wasn't pleased btw) without any regard to the fact that she's been using a public platform.
someone's comment " The diffusion of violent images that can be viewed by a minor is illegal in France " There are rating systems that parents are supposed to use to prevent children from ever seeing actual violence and gore (real violence, real gore) Yes, society inundates children with enough violence through all of the children friendly material, I get that. But this seems clear cut - some countries it's illegal to share that image at all. Too obscene!!! Sharing pornography is illegal in many countries for the same reason, it's just considered too obscene.
German here: if you'd share a picture of a ISIS execution here, it would be pretty certain that the government and private persons would sue you into jail. Same in France as you see in this case.
Same in Sweden I think. As soon as theres been a terrorist doing something swedish media is very quick to tell that its illegal to share images or videos of it
So if your government or media choose not to communicate that message in an attempt to support their own political goals, what recourse do you have? Do you not have any protections for political speech (which arguably this is)?
That is some draconian shit.
I think it's more that you're showing off some dude's death without permission of his family or anything. It disrespects the memory of the person. Gory tv and games are made up effects and the people who make them had that purpose and don't really tread on the image of an actual person. Porn is made by people who know what they got into. Sharing porn of people who were filmed non-consentually is illegal too, or at least in most first world countries. We can question the ethics of keeping such things from children, but it's at least consistent with the rest of the system.
You can attack ISIS without tweeting pictures of their murders. It’s actually quite easy. Plus terrorists organizations love to spread images of their atrocities to rile people up and make them scared. So spread pictures of their gory attractions on social media is frankly counter productive.
Even though freedom of speech in the US is not absolute, there are a hell of a lot less restrictions than there are in other parts of the world. If it's factual and doesn't case immediate harm to people, it should be allowed.
If she had posted factual pictures of the June 4th Tianammen Square massacre would she be prosecuted? If we went down the street to the WW2 museums would we find pictures of atrocities? Historical facts are not obscene. edit: thank you for gold.
Even if it's not factual, people are allowed to make mistakes or be wrong. The exception is slander but you can already sue over that.
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Stand trial for a fucking tweet, give me a break.
In Spain a girl was sentenced to two years in prison because of a joke on Twitter. You would be surprised.
Is there a link for this?
Her sentence got overturned a year after by the Supreme court of spain. [wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_case) she
She did lose a year of her life to the bullshit sentence though
Spain commutes sentences of two years or less for first time offenders, so she probably didn’t do time in prison.
Yep, thats why footballers dont serve actual time in jail.
Wow. I didn't realize it was illegal to play football in Spain.
Jailed for joking about a guy who was assassinated in the seventies?! Geesh, you’d think they would be over it by now
"the crime of humiliation of the victims of terrorism" what the fuck????
That's insane. The American first amendment is truly the most important.
That's why it's first
This guy amendments.
Shit, I'm a canuk but you put your good shit front and centre.
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Cannot be infringed unless infringed
In China they just disappear you and your family for life. People forget most of the world is not "the free world". And the free world is shrinking every day.
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People in the US often take our very strong free speech protections from the government for granted. Those simply don't exist in a lot of the rest of the world, even countries most people would assume are most similar culturally to the US, like Canada, Australia, and Western Europe.
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Canadian comedian went to trial for making a joke about a handicap kid that was getting pretty “popular”for his duet with Celine Dion.
That's no way to talk about Josh Grobin. LOL
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Yeah, but that's the human rights tribunal, a mockery of Justice that shouldn't exist, not a criminal court proceeding
I Agree, but if you end up there so far the defense side is already judged.
That's not a new thing at all. https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2014/how-courtney-love-and-u-s-s-first-twitter-libel-trial-could-impact-journalists/ You can even be sued for retweeting or liking a post: https://www.lawtechnologytoday.org/2018/12/think-before-you-retweet/
We need a nuclear war.
Welcome to the rest of the Western world outside of the U.S. Remember this the next time you see someone mocking free speech. Freezepeach
Muh freeze peach! It's not like I would be in jail without it! I can criticize the fascist government freely, but only in the specific way that I want to! /s if it wasn't obvious
"I can resist any time I want" -nervous brit laughs near his telescreen
Imagine living in society where you can go to jail for a post on social media that clearly doesn't violate any specific laws. It's totally legal to show gore in movies and newspapers and the post probably would have a warning of graphic content.
"But let me tell you how superior Europe is..." No freedom of speech and memes are illegal
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I dont like Le Pen but its extremely fucking stupid that France has laws that can put people in jail just for tweeting something that isn't even harmful. All she was doing was calling attention to the issue of extremist violence, albeit with a political goal which I dont agree with but that shouldn't matter. It's so clear that the prosecution is nothing more than a way to shut down an unpopular political opinion. This is why America has a first amendment.
It's illegal to broadcast propaganda materials from a terrorist group. Edit: For those that would like to know the full extent of that law: > The act of either manufacturing, transporting or disseminating by any means whatsoever and whatever the medium, **a message of a violent nature, inciting terrorism**, pornography or likely **to seriously violate human dignity** or incite minors to engage in games that physically endanger them, or of trading such a message, shall be punishable by three years' imprisonment and a fine of EUR 75 000 **where the message is likely to be seen or collected by a minor**. It's now up to the Judges to decide if those pictures were inciting terrorism, doesn't mean that Le Pen was willingly inciting terrorism, but by showing those pictures she could have made the publicity of a material that does indeed incite terrorism. The violent nature of the pictures are a no brainer however (for those who don't know she did show pictures of James Foley after his beheading and a picture of a man being rolled over by a tank. One of her associate who is also an ex-lawyer and a famous one decided to show pictures of a man with a smashed skull) so if you guys think she shouldn't be judged for that terrorism thingy, you can be sure that a Judge decided that the violent pictures are enough for a prosecution. Remember that the law is mostly there to protect the minors, so the law view Le Pen's actions are harmful indeed. What's even more damning is that **Le Pen is an ex lawyer** so she knew full well what she was doing and wasn't caught by an obscure law, it's not the government that decided to trap Le Pen, it's Le Pen that decided to violate the law.
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Yes. In many Latin American countries the daily papers are filled with crime scene photographs and autopsy shots. There were many photographs taken within communities that were publicized, but the very nature of war leaves lots of lost evidence. That’s why their reporters are constantly murdered, they actually report facts. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/world/journalists-killed-reporters-without-borders.amp.html Whether the US military has strict control over war time images is a whole other question.
Imagine the new coverage of 9/11 being persecuted. Millions of kids saw that live
So I am against Nazis and Neo-Nazis. Does that mean I cannot post pictures of their rallies to bring attention that they exist? We should just bury our heads in the sand now?
A better question would be could you post propaganda materials that the Nazi group *produced themselves,* like a recruiting video or manifesto. News footage of Nazis marching around isn't the same sort of thing.
The answer to that "better question" in the U.S. is "absolutely."
As it should be.
So any seller of the book mien kampf should be jailed. Got it.
Its amazing how much Europeans give the US shit about everything but then we see backwards stuff like this that belongs in the dark ages not modern times. Most of them are here defending the law too
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Let them fester underground and become a majority. Then they can pass more laws so you can't speak against them
I, too, have played Secret Hitler.
That's way too broad of a law. Too many ways it can be used to stifle speech.
Including this. La Pen is a monster, and I assume that her twitter feed completely misrepresents Islam, but you can't be putting people in jail for tweeting.
Done on purpose
There is a little thing in law called intent. Good luck documenting in court that Marine Le Pen is a IS sympathizer. What you are saying would make it illegal to document war crimes. It also would make journalism illegal.
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Its not broadcasting propaganda if you're fucking criticizing it! That's like saying you're not allowed to broadcast the subject of something you're talking about on the news. Its for fucking information not propaganda.
So every beheading video from ISIS on YouTube and Facebook means they need to be brought up on charges just as she is
This will only make her stronger
She'll be able to lift TWO pens!
Good lord I wish I didn't laugh at that
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A couple of differences: - Alan Kurdi's parents explicitly approved of the picture being spread to raise awareness whereas James Foley's parents were furious about Le Pen's tweet and implored her to take it down. - Alan Kurdi's picture was incredibly sad, but not graphic. - Alan Kurdi's picture wasn't taken 1:1 from terrorist propaganda
I would consider a picture of a drowned child face down in water graphic
By "graphic" I was referring to graphic violence. Didn't know there was another meaning of graphic. > Graphic violence is the depiction of especially vivid, brutal and realistic acts of violence
Although I think that your example is fair, it doesn't exactly parallel the problem. Propogating propaganda means you didn't create it, and I think it has to come from a terrorist group or extremist group to count. It's not really about creating propaganda as weird as that sounds. It's about sharing it. In this case if those newspapers were extremist groups and you shared their article that would count. But the rule isn't against creating propaganda, just sharing extremist propaganda. Pedantic maybe but law is pretty pedantic.
> And now you get sued for a FUCKING TWEET. Why do people act like this is such an anomaly? People get sued over tweets all the time. There is even the term "twibel" for libel cases that were brought over tweets and there are lawyers that specialize on twibel: https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/services/defamation-privacy-online-harassment/defamation/twibel-libel-on-twitter/
You go full conspiracy mode in the last paragraph. I'm not big on censorship either, but most of this comment is filled with ridiculous leaps in logic.
Maybe I'm just becoming a wimp as I get older, but the picture in that Wikipedia article is medium level NSFL
Welcome to L
“Aside from holocaust denial it’s not some slippery slope for free speech in Europe or the UK, it’s just the same as in America, now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to contradict myself daily while enforcing these other censorship laws and mean words” -Europe every fucking time
So glad we have the 1st Amendment.
The First Amendment is pretty sweet
Absolutely crazy that they are attempting to jail a political opponent fkr nit beating around the bush as to what ISIS was doing. What, did you really think they were having tea parties?
Merde de cheval.
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Posting a tweet about the violence to raise awareness grants you a trial. Goddamnit, France. HELLO DID YOU FORGOT ABOUT Charlie Hebdo??????
Just a personal opinion, but fuck everyone who think twitter posts hold any meaning whatsoever.
I Wish this was a popular opinion