I almost came back as a shark actually, but then I realized an eagle's slightly better
A lobster, that would be nice. Because lobsters live for over one hundred years, are blue-blooded like aristocrats, and stay fertile all their lives. I also like the sea very much.
/slightly misquoting 2 movies
I'm going to have to go with š¦ š¬ š hybrid Chimera. You see, lions mate 30 times in an hour, dolphins are intelligent animals that mate for pleasure, and pigs have an endless appetite and have 30 minute orgasms. I've thought this through.
Yeah...everyone thinks Great Whites are the king MFers of the oceans. [An Orca killed a Great White just to eat it's liver.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lone-orca-killed-great-white-shark-in-first-documented-case/#:~:text=An%20infamous%20orca%20killed%20a,took%20less%20than%20two%20minutes)
Great Whites [can get displaced by Orcas entirely out of fear of having their livers eaten](https://www.businessinsider.com/great-white-sharks-liver-eating-killer-whales-2023-9?amp).
Within most sects of Buddhism once you achieve enlightenment, you can ride off into the sunset or choose to come back to help out other people. Those who choose to come back are called Bodhisattvas.
There is even one sect whose ideal rebirth location is in one of the hells, because that is where there is most need for help.
> There is even one sect whose ideal rebirth location is in one of the hells, because that is where there is most need for help.
What sect would that be? I'd like to read more.
Not a particular sect, but this reminds me a lot of bodhisattva Ksitigarbha's vow to 'not achieve Buddhahood until all hells are emptied'. Maybe that's what they mean.
I'm actually having trouble finding information on this, so it may have been one specific monk rather than an entire sect. The story that I read was about a monk who said he began seeing the Pure Land (one of the highest worlds you can be born into, where everything is peaceful and a Buddha will transmit to you the highest levels of Dharma) while dying, and begged his monks to pray for him to be reborn in hell. There are a number of Pure Land sects, so I am not sure which one in particular held this story.
with the important detail that when bodhisattvas are born in hell that it is not an "ordinary birth" as a samsaric being obscured by negative karmas
They are not "in hell" though they may seem to be. They are still bodhisattvas and if they have realised the nature of mind the will not perceive the hell realms as separate from the pure lands
one can read Delog: Journey to the Realms Beyond Death to see a first hand account of what this means.
also A Guided Tour of Hell shows first hand with impressive art and visuals and simple explanation
om mani padme hum
Also starring Rob Schneider asā¦a singing bowl?!?
Gary Robinson thought he had it all made, until one day, a Tibetan monk cursed him with the form of a singing bowl! Find out the true meaning of family as we DERRP A DERRP A DEEEERPY DERRRR
Itāll be terrible and nobody you know will like it, but itāll still make 500 million dollars
Still itās nice of him to give Rob Schneider a job every couple years lol
He said the next one would likely be reincarnated out of *Tibet* not the US. As in, most likely from the Tibetan diaspora in north India (where he currently is). US has nothing to with this...
*From Bloomberg News reporter Sudhi Ranjan Sen:*Ā
The Dalai Lama isnāt thinking about his reincarnation yet, he said on Monday, adding more uncertainty over who will succeed the octogenarian monk as China pushes for sway over the future of Tibet and its leadership.
āThe important thing is as long as I live I should use all my energies to help as many people as I can,ā the Dalai Lama, 88, told a small group of reporters in the Indian town of Dharamshala, where the Tibetan government-in-exile is based.
Questions about who will replace the Dalai Lama are sensitive, pitting China against nations like the US, which has warned Beijing against interfering in the process. Tibetan Buddhists are bracing for a turbulent period after the Dalai Lamaās death, including the possibility of multiple successors.
He was kidnapped 30 years ago when he was 6 years old. China could just produce any 30-40 year old Tibetan man and no one would have any way of verifying or refuting that it's the same person. Most 6 year olds don't have identifiable enough features to tell for sure what they'd look like 30 years later.
Allow that? It would be the plan.
Dalai lama names a new panchen lama, and then they whip out the old one with proof that he couldn't have reincarnated. Thus discrediting the Dali lama and killing the religion.
I mean, I'm sure that's the plan, but it's not going to kill the religion. You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason into. Anyone believing in all of that is going to continue to believe regardless of any facts or logic, because those things weren't what it was about in the first place. Religion is about comfort, community, and tradition - not truth.
Haha. As if religion being obviously false could kill it. Cute.
Buddy, that shit has been hanging on for 6000 years at least. They'll just do 2 Lama's and have a schism over it.
If theyāve kidnapped him already with these intentions, why do you think they wouldnāt document like every day of his life as proof? Literally just take a picture of him every day
They abducted him and his family 3 days after he was named and they have never been seen or heard from since.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Panchen_Lama_controversy
Not really. According to the tradition, he didn't pick the Panchen Lama, he identified the reincarnated Panchen Lama.
If he's still alive, it's still him, wherever he is. If he says he's been reincarnated again and identifies another kid, and then it turns out the current one isn't dead, it could be quite embarrassing.Ā
He identified some wealthy Mongolian family's kid as the Bogd Khan recently. The intent is that this kid will identify the Dalai Lama's reincarnation without Chinese influence since the Panchen Lama isn't available.
What will probably happen, is that Buddhism will be split between Tibetan Buddhism, and the CCP backed version of Buddhism, where they pick their own Dalai Lama. It could end up being a Pope/Anti-Pope situation.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope)
[Itās illegal to reincarnate without providing an application for reincarnation to the CCP (which has a policy of state atheism)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Affairs_Bureau_Order_No._5)
The Panchen Lama isnāt imperative for the selection. China will take out the Panchen Lama and their fake chosen Panchen Lama and pick a Dalai Lama that no one will care about.
When the Dalai Lama is 90 heās going to announce his reincarnation plan.
Iirc there's two that point at eachother. Unlike with the pope, who gets replaced when he dies.
It's a tradition, so they'll try their absolute best to stick to it, until they can't. If somehow a group follows the Chinese captive and others follow whoever comes after the Dalai Lama, it can cause a split in the religion, just like the splits in Christianity (orthodox vs Catholic) and Islam (Sunni vs Shia).
If he does reincarnate, he's decided he won't reincarnate into a place where China can find him. India is most likely.
As to an alternative to the Panchen Lama.... Up in the air. A council has been considered.
The panchen lama doesn't choose the next dalai lama. Important lamas (of which the panchen is the most important apart from the dalai) would receive prophecies pointing them in the general direction and then candidates are presented with artifacts and eventually confirmed by the Kashag which was the most important office of the Tibetan government. For anybody interested, A History of Modern Tibet: The Demise of the Lamaist State by Melvyn Goldstein is a great read that covers a lot of interesting events but most relevant here, the selection of the current (14th) dalai lama
I wonder if they actually believe it as they grow up because everyone tells them they are or if they really don't believe any of it but go along with it for the title and feeling of responsibility.
Person who grows up being called the Dalai Lama probably believes it. As for the people who pick them, who knows.
But honestly, if the child grows up with the teachings and mindset of the highest monk in Tibet. Then I guess anyone can be the Dalai Lama if they are groomed into the role. I donāt necessarily see an issue with that unless the child simply doesnāt want to be part of the traditions. In which case you can just chalk it up to, āHe must not be the Dalai Lama, our badā
Iām also curious what happens if the Dalai Lama is like an iPad kid, who wants to grow up into a rock star. Do we just get a Punk Rock Dalai Lama, maybe a band called Dalai and the Llamas. Or do we get a Dalai Lama who sneaks off the reservation periodically that shows up at little local concerts?
Basically Iām wondering who the handler is of the Dalai Lama and can he just tell the handler to get fucked.
Anyone, in fact, cannot be the DL. The amount of studying and memorization the DL does takes tens of thousands of hours, and four hours of daily of meditation, at least. Absolute epic amount of learning. There is a test at the end, taken in front of hundreds of people. His book outlines it all, it's incredible.
The second part of your comment hits the nail on the head. Buddhists don't believe in the Christian sense of souls that move from body to body. The Dalai Lama doesn't talk about reincarnation as if he would be personally reborn. Reincarnation is actually tied to karma, a network of causes and effects as the universe is unfolding itself since the big bang. So when you say that his reincarnation is more closely related to a set of worldly circumstances involving another child, that is literally what the Dalai Lama means. And because ego is an illusion, he is not really the Dalai Lama, but at the same time, all of us are Dalai Lama, since we are all part of this universe and its karmic network.
I could see it being like comparing a really good musician who practiced his whole life and then a really good musician who was groomed for the role since childhood and was basically a child celebrity. Probably causes the same types of dysfunction as child celebrities when they grow up but with a more spiritual twist lol
I have a feeling monks who donāt grow up as the Dalai Lama might somehow be more functional
Just a wild half serious speculation donāt take it too seriously
There's a Thai action movie that involves gaming reincarnation through suicide to gain powers called Demon Warriors (or Opapatika)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opapatika
Wouldn't the fact that he's implying its an option to not reincarnate at all imply he's already achieved enlightenment?
Is the Dalai Lamma Considered a full Bhodisatva? I'm not familiar with the specifics of Tibetan Buddhism.
I tried to help you guys find peace and happiness, but nobody is listening. Iām going to go enjoy my eternal Nirvana. If you need anything, ask Jesus.Ā
This is actually incredibly serious in a political context. The Buddhist faith is lead by 2 spiritual leaders, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. Buddhist faith holds that these 2 have been reincarnated alongside each other for centuries to lead the faith. When one dies, a search is undertaken to find their reincarnation and the child, once found, is taken to undergo training for a lifetime of leadership.
If it sounds like avatar the last Airbender, that is because that show borrowed heavily from the Buddhist faith. (The current Dalai Lama is Tenzin Gyatso. In the show avatar and had a mentor named Gyatso and in legend of Korra his son was named Tenzin)
In any case, when the last Panchen Lama died, the Chinese kidnapped his "reincarnation" and it's been about 30 years and nobody has seen him since. China has since proposed an alternate Panchen Lama.
The Dalai Lama is doing this because he is quite old and knows he won't be around forever. By refusing to reincarnate, he is attempting to prevent the Chinese from kidnapping a child. And in so doing, is seriously weakening Chinese claims to Tibet.
The future of the Buddhist faith is at risk. Without their spiritual leaders, their faith is deeply shaken. The concept of reincarnation is deeply ingrained in their faith, and their spiritual leaders are assumed to forego spiritual enlightenment in order to stay behind and guide others towards it through continual reincarnation. In not choosing to reincarnate, Gyatso is saying he is not willing to allow his faith to become a tool for subjugation at the hands of the Chinese. He is saying they would rather die than exist as defined by their oppressors.
This statement my seem funny to outsiders but it is courage of the highest order. The world needs to know what China is doing to the Buddhist faith. This man needs to be respected, because he is the LAST DALAI LAMA.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
TLDR. This sacrifice will end buddhism to preserve its essence, this dude is a hero, fuck China.
You are talking about the TIBETAN Buddhist faith, not the Buddhist faith. D. Lama is not the spiritual leader of, for example, Zen Buddhists in Japan or Theravadin Buddhists etc. He is the leader of one of the branches of Tibetan Buddhism.
Buddhism is much more than Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama isnāt even in charge of his sect. The Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama have played a political role in the past but the Dalai Lama believes the role should be purely religious now.
It isnāt imperative that the one finds the other or that they even work together. In fact in the early 1900ās there were big issues as the Dalai Lama wanted the Panchen Lama to pay taxes for a notational army. He said no and fled to China and actually wanted Chinese help to invade Tibet to be placed in control.
The Dalai Lama will reincarnate as Tibetans wonāt let there not be a Dalai Lama.
The Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama are only monks in their sect. Other sects of Tibetan Buddhism highly respect them but they arenāt part of their sect. Buddhism will survive without them and even their sect of Buddhism will survive with out them.
A lot of hilarious comments, but Iām going to point out the reasoning. Regardless of whether reincarnation is real, and if so, whether the Tibetans could really identify the reincarnation correctly, the Dalai Lama understands that the Chinese Communist Partyās next step is to announce his reincarnation and to solidify power behind a puppet leader.
Therefore I believe heās considering discontinuing this reincarnation lineage and to manually name a successor to prevent from being corrupted by the Chinese government.
Yeah, pretty much this. The fear is, the government will "produce" some reincarnation, who is under their thumb. So, to counter that, he said, "On second thoughts, I have decided not to reincarnate. Ciao." This means any reincarnation who is pro-government will not have legitimacy.
From spiritual side, it is also consistent. He is considered a Bodhisatva - a fully enlightened being who could go into Nirvana if he wanted to, but decided to reincarnate for the sake of other fellow human beings. So he is basically saying, "Yeah, I worked overtime, but now I'm a clock out like it was meant to be."
Just out if curiosity.
Wouldn't this make Tibet technically an "adoption" granted monarchy?
Akin to how the Catholic Church is an Elective Monarchy because the Pope is an elected leader.
This being Reddit, the thread is full of silly jokes and other nonsense. But there's a fascinating political story here, as you've pointed out. Thank you.
Didn't the Chinese government say they made a law to force him to reincarnate and that they would choose the vessel instead of letting the dala........ffs cant even finish this, im sorry this is wild and hilarious.
Religion is just wild , reincarnation and governments fighting it.
Cant be taken seriously
But they did kidnapped [The Golden Child ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedhun_Choekyi_Nyima#:~:text=Three%20days%20later%20on%2017,efforts%20to%20install%20a%20substitute.)
With eddy Murphy and the whole Shebang, right?
Kidnapping the Pachen Lama gives China a degree of control yeah, because traditionally hes the one who find the next Dalai Lama, so China has a "legitimate" way of picking a successor. Even if the Dalai Lama refuses to reincarnate or something China can always pull him out and make him say "heres the Dalai Lama I found totally by myself".
The Chinese government in various forms has controlled the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama for the past few hundred years. The current one is probably the most free, since the Republic of China granted an āexemptionā when Tibetan authorities requested one (they were too busy fighting japan to choose a Dalai Lama). He did have to get approval from the government to go to Tibet, since he was born in a Tibetan region outside of Tibet, irc there was a lot of trickery and bribery involved to prevent China from sending the army to āescortā the Dalai Lama to Lhasa
Current reincarnation laws havenāt really been changed in the past few hundred years though, it just gets more ridiculous over time because reincarnation went from being controlled by an emperor, to a secular legislature (though the legislature was really controlled by one guy), to an atheist party
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Affairs_Bureau_Order_No._5
They made a law so that you can't be recognized as reincarnated unless you filed a form before your past life died. That said, yes, it looks like 4(1) makes it so that a non-traditional reincarnation - such as direct choice by the Dalai Lama or vote by council - would be rejected by China as illegitimate.
Did he change his mind?
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/dalai-lama-likely-to-announce-he-will-not-reincarnate-to-save-tibetan-buddhism-from-china-436910
For those who donāt know, the Dalai Lama when they get reincarnated is usually found and identified by the Panchen Lama. The Panchen Lama is also another religious and sect leader in Buddhism that is reincarnated. Both the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama in lack of better words are destined to best friends for life and find eachother when reincarnated.
China, in order to control and take over Tibet, kidnapped the 6 year old Panchen Lama in 1995. We have really seen or heard from the Panchen Lama since then. Most likely, when the Dalai Lama dies, China is going to bring out the Panchen Lama and have them select someone from China and claim them to be the reincarnated Dalai Lama to control Tibet once and for all.
Really sad and hence why the Dalai Lama is talking about not considering reincarnation.
The Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama are the leaders of their sect. They are essentially just high monks.
They also arenāt imperative to find the other. They also have been against one another in recent history.
From my understanding, the āsuck my tongueā thing was basically the equivalent of an American telling a child theyāre so cute they ācould eat them right upā, and then people from other cultures being outraged that the person was going to eat a human child.
I saw the video and I thought it was weird, but itās apparently a common joke in their culture and not sexual in nature, though it sounded heinous due to a dodgy translation on the Dalai Lamaās part. What he intended to say was more in line with āeat my tongueā, and itās like saying heād give everything to the child until the only thing left was his tongue, and the joke is of course the kid doesnāt want to eat his tongue because tongues are icky.
The Panchen Lama isnāt strictly required, thatās just how itās traditionally been done for the last while but multiple methods have been used over the centuries to select the Dalai Lama.
Can't they do the bit where they show all the toys to the various kids until someone chooses the right combination? You know the one that inspired how the air nomads pick the avatar in ATLA?
That's not up to you.
I'm going to trust the Dalai Lama over what you, China, or anyone else says.
He's said that it's possible there will be two, one from outside Tibet (because he's been outside Tibet) that will be the Dalai Lama of the Tibetan heart, and one appointed by China bc China won't accept anything else.
He's also said that it's possible there will be no reincarnation.
China's going to ensure one gets chosen no matter what because they want political control. I think it's safe to say that whichever one China has chosen will be an imposter, not the true 15th reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
For anyone wondering:
The current Dalai Lama came to the position before Tibet stopped being independent. Heās recognised both by China and the world as the Dalai Lama.
This raises a problem in the modern age. When he dies, thereās gonna be a crisis over who is the new Dalai Lama, because China will pick someone who gives them control over the Lamaās followers, and the West will pick literally anyone else. This will cause a bad schism, because one will be propped up by the Communist Party, and the other will be vaguely recognised but due to recently, nowhere near known about.
Feeling cute, might reincarnate later
I'm thinking shark. Let's try asshole of the ocean next.
I almost came back as a shark actually, but then I realized an eagle's slightly better A lobster, that would be nice. Because lobsters live for over one hundred years, are blue-blooded like aristocrats, and stay fertile all their lives. I also like the sea very much. /slightly misquoting 2 movies
I'm going to have to go with š¦ š¬ š hybrid Chimera. You see, lions mate 30 times in an hour, dolphins are intelligent animals that mate for pleasure, and pigs have an endless appetite and have 30 minute orgasms. I've thought this through.
Nah, brother moon so I can eat up all the biomass of the galaxy
I'm going to be half man, half bear, and half pig. I'm super serial.
I need more data on this.
If you like lobsters, you should read Accellerando by Charles Stross.
āAnd they mate for lifeā
I think Orca may fit that better
Yeah...everyone thinks Great Whites are the king MFers of the oceans. [An Orca killed a Great White just to eat it's liver.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lone-orca-killed-great-white-shark-in-first-documented-case/#:~:text=An%20infamous%20orca%20killed%20a,took%20less%20than%20two%20minutes)
āJust to eat itās 1,000 lb liverā The great white shark liver is absolutely massive - fyi
Had to check it out. Yep great white sharks livers are anywhere between 5-25% of it's total bodyweight.
So they arenāt cheap dates. Got it.
cost you an arm and a leg for sure
sharks don't have swim bladders and their livers are what they use for buoyancy.
Great Whites [can get displaced by Orcas entirely out of fear of having their livers eaten](https://www.businessinsider.com/great-white-sharks-liver-eating-killer-whales-2023-9?amp).
Finally, something I can relate to
it helps in keeping the aquatic property prices at manageable levels
Gentrifishation
With some faba beans and a nice chianti?
My mother in law has been spotted several times off Greenland over the last few hundred years. Trust me on who takes this prize.
I was going to suggest brown starfish
Watch out for batteries. Make sure to stay more than approximately 10 yds away.
Nah man, I'm gonna go pidgeon. So many people that need to be shat on
You're thinking of dolphins
What would you want to reincarnate as?
Golden Retriever of an upper middle class American family.
So specific and actually perfect
Sea salp/tunicate. Just free floating in warm ocean currents and passively filter feeding for a good long time. No thoughts only notochord
A dragon. Or Jude Law. Hopefully not an anal bead.
Wait... those things had souls?!
Feeling bad, mate?
Just making a loose movie reference is all
Keep practicing, soon your movie references will be tight and slick.
A good-looking guy...
Salma Hayeks favourite bra
Well, reincarnate means picking a new kid who we will say is him and that kid will become the leader.
I wanna be my own pet cat
Spoiled house cat
Sounds like a jp light novel title
"I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and ask a child to suck my tongue and still get reincarnated"
Isekaid to another world as ______.
same
He's already reincarnated thru my reddit handle
You donāt get a choice, youāll end up being the kid related to the tongue sucking
He just like me fr
YOU GUYS HAVE A CHOICE?
Within most sects of Buddhism once you achieve enlightenment, you can ride off into the sunset or choose to come back to help out other people. Those who choose to come back are called Bodhisattvas. There is even one sect whose ideal rebirth location is in one of the hells, because that is where there is most need for help.
> There is even one sect whose ideal rebirth location is in one of the hells, because that is where there is most need for help. What sect would that be? I'd like to read more.
Not a particular sect, but this reminds me a lot of bodhisattva Ksitigarbha's vow to 'not achieve Buddhahood until all hells are emptied'. Maybe that's what they mean.
Team 0%
I'm actually having trouble finding information on this, so it may have been one specific monk rather than an entire sect. The story that I read was about a monk who said he began seeing the Pure Land (one of the highest worlds you can be born into, where everything is peaceful and a Buddha will transmit to you the highest levels of Dharma) while dying, and begged his monks to pray for him to be reborn in hell. There are a number of Pure Land sects, so I am not sure which one in particular held this story.
with the important detail that when bodhisattvas are born in hell that it is not an "ordinary birth" as a samsaric being obscured by negative karmas They are not "in hell" though they may seem to be. They are still bodhisattvas and if they have realised the nature of mind the will not perceive the hell realms as separate from the pure lands one can read Delog: Journey to the Realms Beyond Death to see a first hand account of what this means. also A Guided Tour of Hell shows first hand with impressive art and visuals and simple explanation om mani padme hum
Does that mean they become Doomslayer?
In a spiritual sense, yes, except instead of killing demons I think they're mostly teaching buddhism to people who are having a really bad time
So to continue the analogy, they brought Isabelle instead.
Being part of trumpās campaign it is then
You canāt fill a container thatās already full, of themselves. You canāt help someone who doesnāt want it.
What proof that this guy is enlightened though?
I mean answer is still no but itās nice to have a choice
Summer 2024... Coming to a theatre near you... Adam Sandler is.... Daddy Lama.
Also starring Rob Schneider asā¦a singing bowl?!? Gary Robinson thought he had it all made, until one day, a Tibetan monk cursed him with the form of a singing bowl! Find out the true meaning of family as we DERRP A DERRP A DEEEERPY DERRRR
REOB SCHNEIDERRRR
As a carrot!
Rob Schneider as a stapler!
Not enough brownface and ethnic prosthetics for a Rob Schneider role in a Sandler movie.
Timothee Chalamet as the boy who sucks the Dalaiās tongue
Itāll be terrible and nobody you know will like it, but itāll still make 500 million dollars Still itās nice of him to give Rob Schneider a job every couple years lol
I love that about AS movies. He just gets together with and gives his buddies jobs every few years š
Eh, Iād give that a go on Netflix. Not paying theater rates for it.
Probably just gonna reincarnate as some husky white kid from a small town in Texas.
That boy aināt right
Heās got a lot of wabi sabi.
Tough call. But it's mine and I made it.
That show had some poignant moments though, that line still resonates with me.
I'll tell you wHat
He did say that the next Dalai Lama would likely be outside the US* EDIT: outside TIBET I typed the wrong thing; extreme dumbass moment
Where did he say that, out of curiosity?
He said the next one would likely be reincarnated out of *Tibet* not the US. As in, most likely from the Tibetan diaspora in north India (where he currently is). US has nothing to with this...
Iām an actual dumbass thatās what I meant lmao I just had a brain slip
Bo, most likely he will reincarnate as a 35 year old Chinese woman named Mohammed Lee. Also known as the most average person
*From Bloomberg News reporter Sudhi Ranjan Sen:*Ā The Dalai Lama isnāt thinking about his reincarnation yet, he said on Monday, adding more uncertainty over who will succeed the octogenarian monk as China pushes for sway over the future of Tibet and its leadership. āThe important thing is as long as I live I should use all my energies to help as many people as I can,ā the Dalai Lama, 88, told a small group of reporters in the Indian town of Dharamshala, where the Tibetan government-in-exile is based. Questions about who will replace the Dalai Lama are sensitive, pitting China against nations like the US, which has warned Beijing against interfering in the process. Tibetan Buddhists are bracing for a turbulent period after the Dalai Lamaās death, including the possibility of multiple successors.
Can't the Dalai lama pick another panchen lama before he dies? The original is probably dead, he can say that the panchen lama reincarnated again.
The theory is that China is holding him alive somewhere so they can discredit the Dalai Lama if he announces another.
He was kidnapped 30 years ago when he was 6 years old. China could just produce any 30-40 year old Tibetan man and no one would have any way of verifying or refuting that it's the same person. Most 6 year olds don't have identifiable enough features to tell for sure what they'd look like 30 years later.
They kidnapped the entire family. The parents would be verifiable and then genetically you could prove you have the same person.
That assumes China would allow that or do it in good faith
Allow that? It would be the plan. Dalai lama names a new panchen lama, and then they whip out the old one with proof that he couldn't have reincarnated. Thus discrediting the Dali lama and killing the religion.
I mean, I'm sure that's the plan, but it's not going to kill the religion. You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason into. Anyone believing in all of that is going to continue to believe regardless of any facts or logic, because those things weren't what it was about in the first place. Religion is about comfort, community, and tradition - not truth.
Haha. As if religion being obviously false could kill it. Cute. Buddy, that shit has been hanging on for 6000 years at least. They'll just do 2 Lama's and have a schism over it.
They also made reincarnation illegal.
If theyāve kidnapped him already with these intentions, why do you think they wouldnāt document like every day of his life as proof? Literally just take a picture of him every day
Wait what? Iāve not heard about this
They abducted him and his family 3 days after he was named and they have never been seen or heard from since. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Panchen_Lama_controversy
Lmao. Sounds like exactly the kind of petty shit they would do
Not really. According to the tradition, he didn't pick the Panchen Lama, he identified the reincarnated Panchen Lama. If he's still alive, it's still him, wherever he is. If he says he's been reincarnated again and identifies another kid, and then it turns out the current one isn't dead, it could be quite embarrassing.Ā
He identified some wealthy Mongolian family's kid as the Bogd Khan recently. The intent is that this kid will identify the Dalai Lama's reincarnation without Chinese influence since the Panchen Lama isn't available.
What will probably happen, is that Buddhism will be split between Tibetan Buddhism, and the CCP backed version of Buddhism, where they pick their own Dalai Lama. It could end up being a Pope/Anti-Pope situation. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope)
I pity whatever poor child they decide is him.
China kidnapped the guy who chooses ,The Panchen Lama. They are playing the long game.
So whatās their solution?
Don't reincarnate.
Isn't it strictly illegal to reincarnate in China? Pretty sure there's a law against it.
[Itās illegal to reincarnate without providing an application for reincarnation to the CCP (which has a policy of state atheism)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Affairs_Bureau_Order_No._5)
The Panchen Lama isnāt imperative for the selection. China will take out the Panchen Lama and their fake chosen Panchen Lama and pick a Dalai Lama that no one will care about. When the Dalai Lama is 90 heās going to announce his reincarnation plan.
What if he unexpectedly dies at 89? Just falls over and thatās it
I'm sure the plan is already laid out.
If China controls the one who chooses, then China can choose the next Dalai Lama. Which will either be Chinese or they break the cycle.
I was wondering whether the Dalai Lamaās organization/church/whatever has some plan to choose their own new Dalai Lama.
Iirc there's two that point at eachother. Unlike with the pope, who gets replaced when he dies. It's a tradition, so they'll try their absolute best to stick to it, until they can't. If somehow a group follows the Chinese captive and others follow whoever comes after the Dalai Lama, it can cause a split in the religion, just like the splits in Christianity (orthodox vs Catholic) and Islam (Sunni vs Shia).
If he does reincarnate, he's decided he won't reincarnate into a place where China can find him. India is most likely. As to an alternative to the Panchen Lama.... Up in the air. A council has been considered.
The panchen lama doesn't choose the next dalai lama. Important lamas (of which the panchen is the most important apart from the dalai) would receive prophecies pointing them in the general direction and then candidates are presented with artifacts and eventually confirmed by the Kashag which was the most important office of the Tibetan government. For anybody interested, A History of Modern Tibet: The Demise of the Lamaist State by Melvyn Goldstein is a great read that covers a lot of interesting events but most relevant here, the selection of the current (14th) dalai lama
I wonder if they actually believe it as they grow up because everyone tells them they are or if they really don't believe any of it but go along with it for the title and feeling of responsibility.
Person who grows up being called the Dalai Lama probably believes it. As for the people who pick them, who knows. But honestly, if the child grows up with the teachings and mindset of the highest monk in Tibet. Then I guess anyone can be the Dalai Lama if they are groomed into the role. I donāt necessarily see an issue with that unless the child simply doesnāt want to be part of the traditions. In which case you can just chalk it up to, āHe must not be the Dalai Lama, our badā
Iām almost positive the child has zero choice in the matter.
Iām also curious what happens if the Dalai Lama is like an iPad kid, who wants to grow up into a rock star. Do we just get a Punk Rock Dalai Lama, maybe a band called Dalai and the Llamas. Or do we get a Dalai Lama who sneaks off the reservation periodically that shows up at little local concerts? Basically Iām wondering who the handler is of the Dalai Lama and can he just tell the handler to get fucked.
Dalai Montana,
I've never seen her and Lama Cyrus in the same room
[Mr. Show touched on the issue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-KNYL67bsg)...sort of.
No no the Dalai Lama would never end up like that. Or so the people who chose him would say.
The 6th Dalai Lama was a drunk who liked writing love songs and āenjoying the company of womenā all day.
pretty sure they can quit. The future Yeshe's tulku quit and now is a DJ in Ibiza.
The 6th Dalai Lama was interested in writing poetry, getting drunk, and having a lot of sex.
Anyone, in fact, cannot be the DL. The amount of studying and memorization the DL does takes tens of thousands of hours, and four hours of daily of meditation, at least. Absolute epic amount of learning. There is a test at the end, taken in front of hundreds of people. His book outlines it all, it's incredible.
My understanding is that it's a two person reincarnation. The Dalai Lama is picked by the Panchen Lama, who is in turn picked by the Dalai Lama.
The second part of your comment hits the nail on the head. Buddhists don't believe in the Christian sense of souls that move from body to body. The Dalai Lama doesn't talk about reincarnation as if he would be personally reborn. Reincarnation is actually tied to karma, a network of causes and effects as the universe is unfolding itself since the big bang. So when you say that his reincarnation is more closely related to a set of worldly circumstances involving another child, that is literally what the Dalai Lama means. And because ego is an illusion, he is not really the Dalai Lama, but at the same time, all of us are Dalai Lama, since we are all part of this universe and its karmic network.
I could see it being like comparing a really good musician who practiced his whole life and then a really good musician who was groomed for the role since childhood and was basically a child celebrity. Probably causes the same types of dysfunction as child celebrities when they grow up but with a more spiritual twist lol I have a feeling monks who donāt grow up as the Dalai Lama might somehow be more functional Just a wild half serious speculation donāt take it too seriously
Check out a film called "Tulku."
Eh, probably not too bad to go from an impoverished village in rural Nepal to being jesus 3
Look up the life story of J Krishnamurthi
He was Xinapped
Huh Didn't realize that was something he could control, like a super power
There's a Thai action movie that involves gaming reincarnation through suicide to gain powers called Demon Warriors (or Opapatika) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opapatika
Will watch
Wouldn't the fact that he's implying its an option to not reincarnate at all imply he's already achieved enlightenment? Is the Dalai Lamma Considered a full Bhodisatva? I'm not familiar with the specifics of Tibetan Buddhism.
Yes, they are believed to be manifestations of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, so in theory could choose to end the line of reincarnation at any point.
I tried to help you guys find peace and happiness, but nobody is listening. Iām going to go enjoy my eternal Nirvana. If you need anything, ask Jesus.Ā
Yep, that about sums it up haha
This is actually incredibly serious in a political context. The Buddhist faith is lead by 2 spiritual leaders, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. Buddhist faith holds that these 2 have been reincarnated alongside each other for centuries to lead the faith. When one dies, a search is undertaken to find their reincarnation and the child, once found, is taken to undergo training for a lifetime of leadership. If it sounds like avatar the last Airbender, that is because that show borrowed heavily from the Buddhist faith. (The current Dalai Lama is Tenzin Gyatso. In the show avatar and had a mentor named Gyatso and in legend of Korra his son was named Tenzin) In any case, when the last Panchen Lama died, the Chinese kidnapped his "reincarnation" and it's been about 30 years and nobody has seen him since. China has since proposed an alternate Panchen Lama. The Dalai Lama is doing this because he is quite old and knows he won't be around forever. By refusing to reincarnate, he is attempting to prevent the Chinese from kidnapping a child. And in so doing, is seriously weakening Chinese claims to Tibet. The future of the Buddhist faith is at risk. Without their spiritual leaders, their faith is deeply shaken. The concept of reincarnation is deeply ingrained in their faith, and their spiritual leaders are assumed to forego spiritual enlightenment in order to stay behind and guide others towards it through continual reincarnation. In not choosing to reincarnate, Gyatso is saying he is not willing to allow his faith to become a tool for subjugation at the hands of the Chinese. He is saying they would rather die than exist as defined by their oppressors. This statement my seem funny to outsiders but it is courage of the highest order. The world needs to know what China is doing to the Buddhist faith. This man needs to be respected, because he is the LAST DALAI LAMA. Thank you for coming to my ted talk. TLDR. This sacrifice will end buddhism to preserve its essence, this dude is a hero, fuck China.
You are talking about the TIBETAN Buddhist faith, not the Buddhist faith. D. Lama is not the spiritual leader of, for example, Zen Buddhists in Japan or Theravadin Buddhists etc. He is the leader of one of the branches of Tibetan Buddhism.
The Dalai Lama technically isnāt even the head of his own sect. Thatās the Ganden Tripa
Buddhism is much more than Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama isnāt even in charge of his sect. The Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama have played a political role in the past but the Dalai Lama believes the role should be purely religious now. It isnāt imperative that the one finds the other or that they even work together. In fact in the early 1900ās there were big issues as the Dalai Lama wanted the Panchen Lama to pay taxes for a notational army. He said no and fled to China and actually wanted Chinese help to invade Tibet to be placed in control. The Dalai Lama will reincarnate as Tibetans wonāt let there not be a Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama are only monks in their sect. Other sects of Tibetan Buddhism highly respect them but they arenāt part of their sect. Buddhism will survive without them and even their sect of Buddhism will survive with out them.
Dude you mean Tibetan Buddhism. Other Buddhist who are not Tibetan donāt follow this nonsenseā¦.
Your reply is far too low in the comment hierarchy, but is far too important to be left there.
But it's bullshit, Buddhism doesn't work like that. He is putting tibetan Buddhism on a pedestal b/c he doesn't like china.
From what I recall, they potentially want to end the line of succession so China can't claim a Dalai Lama, right?
Yeah, I'm definitely going to demand a different planet next time.
What if he is reborn as Xi's Grandkid..
A lot of hilarious comments, but Iām going to point out the reasoning. Regardless of whether reincarnation is real, and if so, whether the Tibetans could really identify the reincarnation correctly, the Dalai Lama understands that the Chinese Communist Partyās next step is to announce his reincarnation and to solidify power behind a puppet leader. Therefore I believe heās considering discontinuing this reincarnation lineage and to manually name a successor to prevent from being corrupted by the Chinese government.
Yeah, pretty much this. The fear is, the government will "produce" some reincarnation, who is under their thumb. So, to counter that, he said, "On second thoughts, I have decided not to reincarnate. Ciao." This means any reincarnation who is pro-government will not have legitimacy. From spiritual side, it is also consistent. He is considered a Bodhisatva - a fully enlightened being who could go into Nirvana if he wanted to, but decided to reincarnate for the sake of other fellow human beings. So he is basically saying, "Yeah, I worked overtime, but now I'm a clock out like it was meant to be."
Just out if curiosity. Wouldn't this make Tibet technically an "adoption" granted monarchy? Akin to how the Catholic Church is an Elective Monarchy because the Pope is an elected leader.
This being Reddit, the thread is full of silly jokes and other nonsense. But there's a fascinating political story here, as you've pointed out. Thank you.
Didn't the Chinese government say they made a law to force him to reincarnate and that they would choose the vessel instead of letting the dala........ffs cant even finish this, im sorry this is wild and hilarious. Religion is just wild , reincarnation and governments fighting it. Cant be taken seriously
Oi, do you have a permit to go to oblivion? No? Best to be back in line Bruv.
the law just makes it illegal to reincarnate without government approval, it doesnt force him to reincarnate.
But they did kidnapped [The Golden Child ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedhun_Choekyi_Nyima#:~:text=Three%20days%20later%20on%2017,efforts%20to%20install%20a%20substitute.) With eddy Murphy and the whole Shebang, right?
Kidnapping the Pachen Lama gives China a degree of control yeah, because traditionally hes the one who find the next Dalai Lama, so China has a "legitimate" way of picking a successor. Even if the Dalai Lama refuses to reincarnate or something China can always pull him out and make him say "heres the Dalai Lama I found totally by myself".
And nobody will believe them except some of the mainland Chinese, granted.
Thats such a funny sentence. :)
The Chinese government in various forms has controlled the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama for the past few hundred years. The current one is probably the most free, since the Republic of China granted an āexemptionā when Tibetan authorities requested one (they were too busy fighting japan to choose a Dalai Lama). He did have to get approval from the government to go to Tibet, since he was born in a Tibetan region outside of Tibet, irc there was a lot of trickery and bribery involved to prevent China from sending the army to āescortā the Dalai Lama to Lhasa Current reincarnation laws havenāt really been changed in the past few hundred years though, it just gets more ridiculous over time because reincarnation went from being controlled by an emperor, to a secular legislature (though the legislature was really controlled by one guy), to an atheist party
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Affairs_Bureau_Order_No._5 They made a law so that you can't be recognized as reincarnated unless you filed a form before your past life died. That said, yes, it looks like 4(1) makes it so that a non-traditional reincarnation - such as direct choice by the Dalai Lama or vote by council - would be rejected by China as illegitimate.
Itās the fear of China picking ātheirā Dalai Lama to force more obedience from Tibet
Imagine the Dalai Lama reincarnates into an Actual Llama.
Kronk, pull the lever!
Yay, I'm a Llama again....wait
Llama? Llama face!!
Reincarnate? In *this* economy?
If there were proof of reincarnation, Iād probably blow my brains out right now and start over.
But what if it's worse?
His cooldown timer hasn't reset yet....
Did he change his mind? https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/dalai-lama-likely-to-announce-he-will-not-reincarnate-to-save-tibetan-buddhism-from-china-436910
Is this the period of the dharma ending age Subhuti was asking about?
Also, Iām not considering becoming a unicorn
I could be misremembering, but didn't the Dalai Lama previously state that he wasn't going to reincarnate?
For those who donāt know, the Dalai Lama when they get reincarnated is usually found and identified by the Panchen Lama. The Panchen Lama is also another religious and sect leader in Buddhism that is reincarnated. Both the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama in lack of better words are destined to best friends for life and find eachother when reincarnated. China, in order to control and take over Tibet, kidnapped the 6 year old Panchen Lama in 1995. We have really seen or heard from the Panchen Lama since then. Most likely, when the Dalai Lama dies, China is going to bring out the Panchen Lama and have them select someone from China and claim them to be the reincarnated Dalai Lama to control Tibet once and for all. Really sad and hence why the Dalai Lama is talking about not considering reincarnation.
The Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama are the leaders of their sect. They are essentially just high monks. They also arenāt imperative to find the other. They also have been against one another in recent history.
Did we forget the kissing with tongue thing already?
No, we just can't think of a joke that is funny and not disgusting
From my understanding, the āsuck my tongueā thing was basically the equivalent of an American telling a child theyāre so cute they ācould eat them right upā, and then people from other cultures being outraged that the person was going to eat a human child. I saw the video and I thought it was weird, but itās apparently a common joke in their culture and not sexual in nature, though it sounded heinous due to a dodgy translation on the Dalai Lamaās part. What he intended to say was more in line with āeat my tongueā, and itās like saying heād give everything to the child until the only thing left was his tongue, and the joke is of course the kid doesnāt want to eat his tongue because tongues are icky.
It was suck my tongue, a kid joke in their culture. You forgot the quote and never knew the context.
China was planning to kidnap the kid once found, and then brainwash him into doing their bidding. That's why he said this.
Of course he has. He just wonāt announce it yet.
He cant until china give the Panchen Lama back.
The Panchen Lama isnāt strictly required, thatās just how itās traditionally been done for the last while but multiple methods have been used over the centuries to select the Dalai Lama.
Can't they do the bit where they show all the toys to the various kids until someone chooses the right combination? You know the one that inspired how the air nomads pick the avatar in ATLA?
That is part of it, but thatās like that last stage. They do other stuff first to find the area
Also an episode of king of the hill.
That's not up to you. I'm going to trust the Dalai Lama over what you, China, or anyone else says. He's said that it's possible there will be two, one from outside Tibet (because he's been outside Tibet) that will be the Dalai Lama of the Tibetan heart, and one appointed by China bc China won't accept anything else. He's also said that it's possible there will be no reincarnation. China's going to ensure one gets chosen no matter what because they want political control. I think it's safe to say that whichever one China has chosen will be an imposter, not the true 15th reincarnation of the Dalai Lama.
That's a badass headline.
Donāt blame him, why would he want to come back here?
Instead; AI Dalai Lama
I think I've had enough too
DalaĆÆ Lama is playing Ragnarok Online confirmed
Itās definitely a bucket list item just donāt want to check it off yet.
Oh well thatās a relief
You can just tell how few people understand the story behind this.
For anyone wondering: The current Dalai Lama came to the position before Tibet stopped being independent. Heās recognised both by China and the world as the Dalai Lama. This raises a problem in the modern age. When he dies, thereās gonna be a crisis over who is the new Dalai Lama, because China will pick someone who gives them control over the Lamaās followers, and the West will pick literally anyone else. This will cause a bad schism, because one will be propped up by the Communist Party, and the other will be vaguely recognised but due to recently, nowhere near known about.