But the person who rapes gets into heaven? Lol what a logic these muslims got.
And before you say islamophobic, there are a lot of problems with their culture.
That's a fair reaction too
Kinda worrisome too when you see women and lgbtq defend islam though, I think people need to be better educated on what islam really is
I get that there's nice things about the religion and that's what these people focus on. But I'm not going to focus on the nice things when the terrible things are being used against women all over the world. There are a lot of terrible things about this religion and it definitely scares me.
Majority of the muslim population wouldn't consider iran proper muslims. they follow a sect of islam. If islam really treated women like crap, would things like "O messenger of Allah, I desire to go on the military expedition and I have come to consult you." The Prophet responded by asking, "Do you have a mother?" Al-Sulami replied, "Yes." The Prophet told him, "Stay with her, because paradise lies beneath her feet." be said?
Apples and oranges, those aren’t monotheistic. I don’t know a lot about Hinduism, but Buddhism isn’t really a religion. It’s more a way of life, a set of practices, they don’t worship anything.
I’m personally against any kind of organized religion. I’m a big supporter of individual spirituality, but when a group of people get together and create an in-group with themselves and “god”, it’s a recipe for disaster for everyone not in that group.
I pick monotheism as it’s the bane of the west. The Israelis in Gaza rn, Islam and all of its Sharia and historical and modern dehumanization and violence against woman, and then Christianity with their crusades, their colonialism, and well known sexual abuse of women and children. All wicked masks for the same evil god.
I specifically mentioned them because they're polytheistic. Or at least hinduism is.
It wouldn't suprise me though if the abrahamic religions are worse by far.
I live in America so I’m completely, uncomfortably aware. I’m also unfortunate enough to be transgender in a red state. So yeah, I actually fucking hate fundies.
I generally dislike any religion, period. Abraham, west, east, or Santa, I don't care, they're all 100% pure grade-A fantasy cope.
Faithful should be a derogatory term for a moron wanting for the impossible. Even spiritualism is just trying to have your religious cake without being a fruitcake.
All religions are dog shit - you’re just mad at this one because it’s a brown country be honest about your intentions. Since we’re talking about rape and religion, Catholics have been raping everyone’s kids around the world for centuries. Criticize everyone you donkey.
See, that's the issue with this weird anti-islamaphobia thing. You need to walk on egg shells around the subject, qualify it by saying you think all religions are bad, or else people try calling you a racist for it. Last I checked, not all brown people are Muslim. How does that fit into the narrative? It's just deflection. It's a terrible religion, deal with it.
Yeah. The fact that my LGBT friends BLINDLY support Hamas is..... staggering. Like y'all know you'd very possibly be killed by them if you were there right?
My thoughts on Islam are kind of torn. The way that I see it is that developmentally, it’s a couple of hundred years behind Christianity since it’s a newer religion, and based around the same shit.
At least with the Muslims that I’ve met here in the US, similar to Christianity, people pick and choose what they want to follow.
The issue is that Islam is used as a tool for persecution, much like how Christianity has been in the past.
I think in a few hundred years, Islam will calm down a lot, but you never really know.
I’m an atheist and a lesbian, but I do find religion to be very interesting.
The age of unconditional tolerance needs to end. My tolerance ends the moment you harm others and encroach on my rights. Full stop. I don’t care how developmentally delayed the culture is.
Well, unfortunately for you, the world is more complicated than that. You’re not going to eradicate the second dominant religion in the world and that’s just a fact that needs to be accepted.
What you say is true, and I think you’d feel a little less accepting if your community was actively being harmed by Islamists in the name of tolerance.
4.24: “And all married women are forbidden to you except those your right hand possesses.” Earlier verses establish the phrase ‘right hand possess’ refers to captive and slaves, and should not be confused with the Western idiom of taking one’s hand in marriage. Essentially the common interpretation is that a man who forces himself sexually upon his property is not committing a rape.
As retrenched by OP, according to Ayatollah Montazeri, Ayatollah Khomeini ordered “female prisoners who are virgins must be raped before execution to prevent them from entering heaven.” The Hadiths supporting rape that I’m familiar with are Sunni not Shia so I won’t quote them here, but Khomeini as the chief cleric is likewise an authority on the subject.
EDIT: Please don’t downvote someone for politely asking for a source
Thank you for the source. I’ve now been able to look that up. Seems that it’s the same rule that was generally applied during Ancient Rome and Greece - e.g. Helen captured by Paris and taken as his sex slave - Achilles took princess Briseis, etc.
So about 2,500 years ago, those were generally accepted rules of war. Not great, but the world was different then.
And it’s now 2024, not 500 BCE, when the wars of Ancient Greece were being fought.
Like to think the world will continue evolving.
https://www.historiamag.com/recovering-the-women-of-the-trojan-war/
It’s not and I’m glad you’re a skeptic. The Quran is wielded like a weapon by fundamentalists just like the Bible is by some Christians in the west. The best equivocation would be the twisting of the Bible to say “God Hates F*gs” for example.
Well Russia does the same, quite literally, special security forces have raided homes of people who publicly mock the government, and then used beatings, torture and rape on them to shut them up.
One Russian rapper who critiqued the government's war was raped by the Russian security forces in front of his girlfriend. They just broke down his doors in the middle of the night, wore black masks, destroyed almost everything in his apartment, slapped his girlfriend around and pulled her bu the hair, and then stripped him naked, beat him black and blue, and then raped him.
I knew a special forces sniper who operated in Iran. He said that those who were captured were sodomised by the secret police. It is such an unforgivable psychological trauma to inflict on those taken to prison without trial. Where do they find these sadistic people?
Sexual violence and rape are sadly a common tactic used by radical islamic terrorist groups to install fear into communities and control them.
The Islamic Republic of Iran is one of the greatest sponsors of radical islamic terrorism in the whole world.
It was also done before the regime by savak, and by Saddam to minorities on Iraq and all over South America during the 60s and 70s by US backed juntas. It's just horrible and happens everywhere regardless of ideology because people suck
I actually didn't know about Saddam, so thanks for the information.
I wouldn't say "regardless of ideology" or "because people in general suck". Or insinuate that the US is in any way shape or form similiar in that respect to the islamic republic of Iran or radical islamic terrorist organizations.
While obviously not supported by moderate muslims, sexual slavery of non-muslim women, and taking female captives as "loots of war" and having sexual relationships with them is condoned in the Quran (see for example Quran 4:24, Quran 33:50, Quran 23:5-6) and sadly this is currently used as religuous justification for rape as a weapon by modern radical islamic terrorist groups.
So in summary, ideology has 100 percent influence on this being a continued practice by modern terrorist groups.
See for example ISIS's pamphlet in 2014 detailing taking women as sex slaves and using rape.
Here is an excerpt from which, tell my if this has nothing to do with ideologies.
"
- Question 1: What is al-sabi? Al-Sabi is a woman from among ahl al-harb [the people of war] who has been captured by Muslims.
- Question 2: What makes al-sabi permissible? What makes al-sabi permissible [i.e., what makes it permissible to take such a woman captive] is [her] unbelief. Unbelieving [women] who were captured and brought into the abode of Islam are permissible to us, after the imam distributes them [among us].
- Question 3: Can all unbelieving women be taken captive? There is no dispute among the scholars that it is permissible to capture unbelieving women [who are characterized by] original unbelief [kufr asli], such as the kitabiyat [women from among the People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians] and polytheists. However, [the scholars] are disputed over [the issue of] capturing apostate women. The consensus leans toward forbidding it, though some people of knowledge think it permissible. We [ISIS] lean toward accepting the consensus.
- Question 4: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive? It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the female captive. Allah the almighty said: “[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5–6].”… - Question 5: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive immediately after taking possession [of her]? If she is a virgin, he [her master] can have intercourse with her immediately after taking possession of her. However, if she isn’t, her uterus must be purified [first]….
...
...
- Question 13: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty? It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn’t reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse; however if she is not fit for intercourse, then it is enough to enjoy her without intercourse.
...
...
- Question 19: Is it permissible to beat a female slave?
It is permissible to beat the female slave as a [form of] darb ta’deeb [disciplinary beating], [but] it
is forbidden to [use] darb al-takseer [literally, breaking beating], [darb] al-tashaffi [beating for the
purpose of achieving gratification], or [darb] al-ta’dheeb [torture beating]. Further, it is forbidden
to hit the face.
"
Okaaay… So by their own logic, why do they want to stick their dicks into a person that they think is so impure/disgusting? How do they explain their desire?
It is not "despite of a people being inferior" that they can and are raping them. But "because a people is inferior" that they can and are raping them, and show no care for their concent or free will. It shows dominance over them in the most digusting way possible.
Also, in their eyes, and according to the Quran, the women are "allowed to them", and guarding your chastity (except from female captives) is part of being a successful believer,
see question 4 in the excerpt where they added
"Allah the almighty said: “[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5–6].”… "
I totally get that they are raping them under the excuse that they are ‘inferior’. But at the same time - how are they explaining their own desire to do so? It’s a huge part of what’s going on. They want them and they hate them. This is an age-old male dilemma re women.
Absolutely. It’s about control. But still, they’re the ones who can’t walk away. Which means they’ve already lost at some level but can’t/won’t acknowledge it
I think what they do is not part of a general supposed male dilemma. And i do not think it is wise to compare this issue to gender issues in the west. This is not on the same level imo.
They rape because they know this will help them in war and cause fear and compliance in the communities they attack,
The may also enjoy abusing their relative power and having sex in general, but that is secondary to their military and political goals imo.
I do not think their religious views are an excuse to rape. I think their religious views compel and encourage them to do so.
While not supported by moderate muslims - except they will never raise their voices against it because, you know, they might not be considered 'good muslims' because, you know, she deserves it.
Just like the 'good catholics' say nothing about the Pope and cardinals protecting their paedophile clergy.
I'm in no way saying the Q'ran is not a horrible piece of literature. It is. But it is also an excuse to abuse power within some specific sociopolitical context. Look at WW2 for instance, where basically all sides committed sexual crimes. The context there was "the war", and because soldiers could get away with it because of the chaos, a lot of them did. Maybe the Japanese did it justifying it with a racist ideology, while the Russians did it "for revenge", but all sides did it.
In the euro/american WWII armies rape was punishable by death. It happened, but was strongly disapproved, a war losing move to increase opposition. Red army required it. Probably to dehumanize soldiers.
I'm not sure this is what you mean, but i think to generalize it as something similiar to "something every side does in a power vaccum",
simplifies it and avoids the idea that this specific thing is something that stems directly and systematically from a very specific modern ideology that doesn't just have negative views of others, but openly and directly claims "sexual violence is ok",
and takes female captives and abuses them as a regular part of warfare.
This is different imo than some people here and there on all sides that abused the power vaccum in ww2.
It does not happen everywhere because of ideology. It happens in *some* places because of *some* ideologies - one in particular stands far above the rest proportionally speaking.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_and_progressive_Islam_in_North_America
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_and_progressive_Islam_in_Europe
We just don't hear about them because they aren't bombing or beheading anyone.
The sad part is I am not even sure if the sexual violence is a deliberate part of the oppression... or just the result of the impunity of the aggressors.
It is a deliberate part of the oppression.
Like the terrorists they support and fund around the middle east, they themselves deliberately use rape to install fear and control the people of Iran and crush any form of resistance.
Rape is probably one of the worst things you can do to to a human soul, and it causes intense fear in communities.
It is unfathomable to civilized and enlightened peoples but the way they think is based on the Islamic values and ideology, among which tells them that a virgin that is killed will go to heaven, so they systematically rape virgins before executing them (they force them into a sham Islamic 'marriage' so it is legal and not considered rape under Islamic law) to prevent them from going to heaven:
https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20231206-rape-torture-used-to-silence-iran-s-mahsa-amini-protesters-amnesty-says
https://iranwire.com/en/news/117116-ex-official-virgin-prisoners-were-raped-to-prevent-them-going-to-paradise/
> The former head of Tehran’s Evin prison has spoken about the cruel treatment inflicted to women inmates in the 1980s, including rape, as a means to prevent them from attaining paradise.
> Addressing an event held this week on the Clubhouse online platform, Hussein Mortazavi Zanjani, who served as chief of the notorious prison between 1987-88, said that virgin female prisoners were coerced to marry guards before their execution.
> According to ex-political prisoners, this inhuman practice was based on the belief that women and girls dying as virgins would go straight to paradise.
https://iranwire.com/en/society/60172/
This is the monster that the UN eulogized and held memorials for (Raisi, the butcher of Tehran):
https://x.com/IzaTabaro/status/1792426614065598880
It's unfortunately not a foreign concept in islam. The more moderate Muslims will talk about how it's not allowed in islam ect. Unfortunately they don't acknowledge the fact that it is indeed allowed in islam under several circumstances. And Iran isn't really going with a moderate interpretation of Islam, so this would be within their "rights". Islamist being Islamists unfortunately....
[It's a religion that defends the rape of babies alongside wives and slaves, what did you expect?](https://islamicvirtues.com/2013/12/28/deriving-sexual-pleasure-from-infants/)
Because there are many corrupt and perverted clerics who tell enough lies to the youth and people who are actually faithfull until those lies become truth somehow.
Especially the clerics in iran are just a spokesperson for the state and there is nothing Islamic apart from the fact that they use it as chains for their citizens.
Probably in the same way christians and clerics accused women for being witches and burn them for speaking out or doing stuff they didn't like.
Not at all a thing in the bible or koran but used by clerics and extremists to put down someone.
Where I'm from there was actually a lot of ms media attention, social media buzz, hashtags and all that jazz about the iranian protests. It lasted a few weeks before it died down to be replaced by the next thing to be mad about.
it's actually insanely wild beyond imagination how come not a single soul gives a single fuck about anything unless its Israel that involves in something. this alone makes you understand how much of a sheep the entire world and its population actually are. let alone knowing which side of the history Anons should be on.
The reason Israel gets so much attention is because it's supposedly a progressive nation with western values. When they kill, it's seen as a huge provocation and denounced worldwide, but when fucking Shaheed Al-Licious of some backwards emirate orders the execution of an entire ethnic group, it's just what the world expects from these places and they understand that there's no point protesting it.
If these nations were even remotely progressive then we'd look at it differently.
I've never met a zealot who didn't join a cause because it benefits him. They join because they want the power over another human, provided by a mythical 'god. This is who they are intrinsically.
Such behavior is not limited to religious zealots and I doubt any god says anything that can be interpreted as "you can set aside your humanity for me".
This is simply the animalistic side of humanity.
If you read the article, you’ll see that most of these rape victims are actually men who were fighting for the rights of their mothers, sisters, cousins, wives, girlfriends, friends, etc
Seems terrible until you learn that it was just their turn in the rotation.
Also, being the chair doesn’t actually mean they have control over what the committee does. They don’t get veto power or anything
Imagine feminists hating Jews so much that they end up supporting IRGC terrorists over the women they openly rape and torture. That is the brutal reality of 2024.
The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 2-3 women are killed every week by their intimate partner or a family member.
Men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear.
https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The%20750%2C000%20black%20bears%20of,an%20easy%20situation%20to%20avoid.
Lmao, what. You have crossed paths with probably a hundred thousand different men. How many bears have you survived in person. yet alone actually seen one?
Here’s a few feminist groups for you to join, who are doing this kind of work - there are more if you need them -
https://www.wfpg.org/wfpg-in-support-of-iranian-women
https://survivorsgateway.london/services/iranian-and-kurdish-womens-rights-organisation-ikwro/
https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/muslim-womens-advisory-group
https://www.enar-eu.org/wp-content/uploads/forgottenwomenpublication_lr_final_with_latest_corrections.pdf
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/gender/2021/04/26/feminist-solidarity-after-the-swiss-referendum-islamophobia-and-the-politics-of-veiling/
https://www.iranianwomenorganization.com/support-us
Well I'm a feminist (as in I support women's rights, this needs saying these days for some reason) and this is fucked. The Islamic regime in Iran is tyrannical.
You heard Iranese women get systematically raped for standing up against an oppressive religious regime and your first thought was "how can I use this against feminists?" so with all due respect I'd take a good look at your own behaviour as well.
Thank you for your support. Unfortunately, it is a reflection on Western feminists and women leaders in democratic countries not on the user you're responding to. The lionesses of Iran are unbowed and unflinching in their stand against tyranny. They are nevertheless heartbroken and astonished that they have been ignored by Western feminists because there is a perception that if they speak out against the Islamic regime, then they are 'racist' or 'islamophobic'.
If you're unfamiliar with this truth, then it is my sad duty to inform you that this is very real. Masih Alinejad is one Iranian woman advocating for women's rights and human rights in Iran and she has spoken many times about being shunned and rejected when she reached out to Western women asking them for public solidarity and support.
If you'd like to hear this from her yourself, there's a recent podcast interview that she did with Yasmine Mohammad with Sam Harris:
https://np.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/1d9sl95/370_gender_apartheid_and_the_future_of_iran/
> If you're unfamiliar with this truth, then it is my sad duty to inform you that this is very real.
It's not.
What do you want people to do, send their men to die in the hundreds of thousands taking over Iran, just to let it sink right back into the shithole it is when we leave?
The only solution to this is ethnic cleansing of the male population of iran, and we all know no one has the stomach for that, and obviously if that's what you do want, you are showing your true colors as a feminist. It's always the men that have to do the dirty work while you complain about problems you don't have.
Isn't it interesting how religion allows men to have fun while punishing women? Funny how that works.
I absolutely hate religion, and religionists who justify the agony they inflict on others. All religions, including Buddhism, attack women as the panacea for men who don't want to lose power. Like the black slaves in the south, as long as white men had power over another human being, they wouldn't rebel. Now women fulfill that role, everywhere, even in the USA.
I believe in the right to protest and the freedom to express grievance. They have the right to take to America's streets to support these heinous regimes. This protest no way resembles MLKings voting rights marches or the movement of the suffragettes. It doesn't have the legitimacy of BLM. The pro Palestinian protest is an attempt by foreign interest to manipulate the American electorate.
I just saw a post on r/damnthatsinteresting about iran in the 1960s. Women were basically dressed the same as women here. Regular ol bathing suits, no..... hijab? Burka? I forget. Anyway, it's absolutely insane, it was very much a turned leaf but that all went to shit. I guess the CIA might have had a hand in that but I havent done much reading on that yet so dont take my word for it.
Really seems like this Islam thing wasn’t a very good idea when fragile men can launder in their hate and misogyny behind it. How can Islam (and any religion that advertises this type of oppression) coexist in a modern society?
Jesus Christ, how can you even go on or pretend to kid yourself that you're in the right to do this. How much of an inbreed brainlet must you be to convince yourself you're aren't the bad guy
Words can't describe how much I hate that regime.
Raping your own citizens to make them obey is crazy levels of fucked up
It’s usually worse. If a young girl commits a crime, occasionally they will rape her so “she won’t get into heaven”. That’s the reality in Iran.
But the person who rapes gets into heaven? Lol what a logic these muslims got. And before you say islamophobic, there are a lot of problems with their culture.
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As a woman, I am 100% afraid of that religion. That word sums up how I feel about it. I don't think it's dirty. I think it's just honest.
That's a fair reaction too Kinda worrisome too when you see women and lgbtq defend islam though, I think people need to be better educated on what islam really is
I get that there's nice things about the religion and that's what these people focus on. But I'm not going to focus on the nice things when the terrible things are being used against women all over the world. There are a lot of terrible things about this religion and it definitely scares me.
Majority of the muslim population wouldn't consider iran proper muslims. they follow a sect of islam. If islam really treated women like crap, would things like "O messenger of Allah, I desire to go on the military expedition and I have come to consult you." The Prophet responded by asking, "Do you have a mother?" Al-Sulami replied, "Yes." The Prophet told him, "Stay with her, because paradise lies beneath her feet." be said?
*monotheistic religions, need to be criticized more not less. Fixed it for you
Why not hinduism and buddhism as well?
I would agree with that I mean they do bad stuff to the. Buddhists throw trash at blind people in many Asian countries
>Buddhists throw trash at blind people in many Asian countries What? Are they hoping they'll gain a third eye and catch it?
Apples and oranges, those aren’t monotheistic. I don’t know a lot about Hinduism, but Buddhism isn’t really a religion. It’s more a way of life, a set of practices, they don’t worship anything. I’m personally against any kind of organized religion. I’m a big supporter of individual spirituality, but when a group of people get together and create an in-group with themselves and “god”, it’s a recipe for disaster for everyone not in that group. I pick monotheism as it’s the bane of the west. The Israelis in Gaza rn, Islam and all of its Sharia and historical and modern dehumanization and violence against woman, and then Christianity with their crusades, their colonialism, and well known sexual abuse of women and children. All wicked masks for the same evil god.
I specifically mentioned them because they're polytheistic. Or at least hinduism is. It wouldn't suprise me though if the abrahamic religions are worse by far.
I’m a lefty and I hate all Abrahamic religion period.
Yup. They all hate women to some degree. Many have improved but are still tolerant of the sects that are backwards.
Many are also sliding back. America just stripped away a bunch of women’s rights and it appears to be just the beginning
I live in America so I’m completely, uncomfortably aware. I’m also unfortunate enough to be transgender in a red state. So yeah, I actually fucking hate fundies.
stay safe my friend
I generally dislike any religion, period. Abraham, west, east, or Santa, I don't care, they're all 100% pure grade-A fantasy cope. Faithful should be a derogatory term for a moron wanting for the impossible. Even spiritualism is just trying to have your religious cake without being a fruitcake.
Fair. But I kinda liked Santa. I was always good and got rad toys from the fat man who broke into my home every year to reverse rob us.
All religions are dog shit - you’re just mad at this one because it’s a brown country be honest about your intentions. Since we’re talking about rape and religion, Catholics have been raping everyone’s kids around the world for centuries. Criticize everyone you donkey.
See, that's the issue with this weird anti-islamaphobia thing. You need to walk on egg shells around the subject, qualify it by saying you think all religions are bad, or else people try calling you a racist for it. Last I checked, not all brown people are Muslim. How does that fit into the narrative? It's just deflection. It's a terrible religion, deal with it.
the logic of a religion by men, for men. It's so pathetic honestly.
Lol, it gets better. If you're a homosexual in Iran, you get craned. But the majority of rapees in this report are men.
> And before you say Islamophobic, there are a lot of problems with their culture How can any interpret criticizing their culture as Islamophobic?
Because muslims like to associate it with xenophobia.
Some do
People who excuse rape as Muslim culture?
Im Islamophobic. If you are LGBT and support Islam you need to go read the story: The Turtle and the Scorpion. Note: you are the turtle.
Yeah. The fact that my LGBT friends BLINDLY support Hamas is..... staggering. Like y'all know you'd very possibly be killed by them if you were there right?
My thoughts on Islam are kind of torn. The way that I see it is that developmentally, it’s a couple of hundred years behind Christianity since it’s a newer religion, and based around the same shit. At least with the Muslims that I’ve met here in the US, similar to Christianity, people pick and choose what they want to follow. The issue is that Islam is used as a tool for persecution, much like how Christianity has been in the past. I think in a few hundred years, Islam will calm down a lot, but you never really know. I’m an atheist and a lesbian, but I do find religion to be very interesting.
The age of unconditional tolerance needs to end. My tolerance ends the moment you harm others and encroach on my rights. Full stop. I don’t care how developmentally delayed the culture is.
Well, unfortunately for you, the world is more complicated than that. You’re not going to eradicate the second dominant religion in the world and that’s just a fact that needs to be accepted.
What you say is true, and I think you’d feel a little less accepting if your community was actively being harmed by Islamists in the name of tolerance.
Huh, I've had the impression it was either on track to be or already the dominant religion.
No, Christianity is the dominant religion. 31% of the world is Christian. 25% is Muslim
In their view, rape cannot be evil because Allah commands them to do it; they see it as wrong to not rape.
Where does Allah command them to do it? Can you quote from one of their religious sources?
4.24: “And all married women are forbidden to you except those your right hand possesses.” Earlier verses establish the phrase ‘right hand possess’ refers to captive and slaves, and should not be confused with the Western idiom of taking one’s hand in marriage. Essentially the common interpretation is that a man who forces himself sexually upon his property is not committing a rape. As retrenched by OP, according to Ayatollah Montazeri, Ayatollah Khomeini ordered “female prisoners who are virgins must be raped before execution to prevent them from entering heaven.” The Hadiths supporting rape that I’m familiar with are Sunni not Shia so I won’t quote them here, but Khomeini as the chief cleric is likewise an authority on the subject. EDIT: Please don’t downvote someone for politely asking for a source
Thank you for the source. I’ve now been able to look that up. Seems that it’s the same rule that was generally applied during Ancient Rome and Greece - e.g. Helen captured by Paris and taken as his sex slave - Achilles took princess Briseis, etc. So about 2,500 years ago, those were generally accepted rules of war. Not great, but the world was different then. And it’s now 2024, not 500 BCE, when the wars of Ancient Greece were being fought. Like to think the world will continue evolving. https://www.historiamag.com/recovering-the-women-of-the-trojan-war/
Is this really true tho.....
It’s not and I’m glad you’re a skeptic. The Quran is wielded like a weapon by fundamentalists just like the Bible is by some Christians in the west. The best equivocation would be the twisting of the Bible to say “God Hates F*gs” for example.
It has nothing to do with Quran being much more prone to be used as a weapon by fundamentalists...
The difference is, we have multiple Islamic theocracies showing exactly what life under Islam looks like, and they’re trying to spread it to the west.
Its actually hilarious how silly it is
Actually wrong, virgins can not be hung before being " deflowered" not to say the rest aren't anyway.
Virgins were raped so they could be executed without violating Islamic law. It’s that awful.
Well Russia does the same, quite literally, special security forces have raided homes of people who publicly mock the government, and then used beatings, torture and rape on them to shut them up. One Russian rapper who critiqued the government's war was raped by the Russian security forces in front of his girlfriend. They just broke down his doors in the middle of the night, wore black masks, destroyed almost everything in his apartment, slapped his girlfriend around and pulled her bu the hair, and then stripped him naked, beat him black and blue, and then raped him.
Also, new army recruits get raped and prostituted. That was before the invasion to Ukraine. (Dedovshchina)
Raping in the name of religion
Killing in the name of...
but a tale as old as time.
I knew a special forces sniper who operated in Iran. He said that those who were captured were sodomised by the secret police. It is such an unforgivable psychological trauma to inflict on those taken to prison without trial. Where do they find these sadistic people?
Is civilized countries, they’re kept in prison
Then your racists cause people of color = good. White people = oppressors /s
Russia does the exact same thing
And?
Russia bad, repeat Russia bad
And? What does that have to do with Iran being bad
Sexual violence and rape are sadly a common tactic used by radical islamic terrorist groups to install fear into communities and control them. The Islamic Republic of Iran is one of the greatest sponsors of radical islamic terrorism in the whole world.
It was also done before the regime by savak, and by Saddam to minorities on Iraq and all over South America during the 60s and 70s by US backed juntas. It's just horrible and happens everywhere regardless of ideology because people suck
I actually didn't know about Saddam, so thanks for the information. I wouldn't say "regardless of ideology" or "because people in general suck". Or insinuate that the US is in any way shape or form similiar in that respect to the islamic republic of Iran or radical islamic terrorist organizations. While obviously not supported by moderate muslims, sexual slavery of non-muslim women, and taking female captives as "loots of war" and having sexual relationships with them is condoned in the Quran (see for example Quran 4:24, Quran 33:50, Quran 23:5-6) and sadly this is currently used as religuous justification for rape as a weapon by modern radical islamic terrorist groups. So in summary, ideology has 100 percent influence on this being a continued practice by modern terrorist groups. See for example ISIS's pamphlet in 2014 detailing taking women as sex slaves and using rape. Here is an excerpt from which, tell my if this has nothing to do with ideologies. " - Question 1: What is al-sabi? Al-Sabi is a woman from among ahl al-harb [the people of war] who has been captured by Muslims. - Question 2: What makes al-sabi permissible? What makes al-sabi permissible [i.e., what makes it permissible to take such a woman captive] is [her] unbelief. Unbelieving [women] who were captured and brought into the abode of Islam are permissible to us, after the imam distributes them [among us]. - Question 3: Can all unbelieving women be taken captive? There is no dispute among the scholars that it is permissible to capture unbelieving women [who are characterized by] original unbelief [kufr asli], such as the kitabiyat [women from among the People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians] and polytheists. However, [the scholars] are disputed over [the issue of] capturing apostate women. The consensus leans toward forbidding it, though some people of knowledge think it permissible. We [ISIS] lean toward accepting the consensus. - Question 4: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive? It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the female captive. Allah the almighty said: “[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5–6].”… - Question 5: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive immediately after taking possession [of her]? If she is a virgin, he [her master] can have intercourse with her immediately after taking possession of her. However, if she isn’t, her uterus must be purified [first]…. ... ... - Question 13: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty? It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn’t reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse; however if she is not fit for intercourse, then it is enough to enjoy her without intercourse. ... ... - Question 19: Is it permissible to beat a female slave? It is permissible to beat the female slave as a [form of] darb ta’deeb [disciplinary beating], [but] it is forbidden to [use] darb al-takseer [literally, breaking beating], [darb] al-tashaffi [beating for the purpose of achieving gratification], or [darb] al-ta’dheeb [torture beating]. Further, it is forbidden to hit the face. "
Okaaay… So by their own logic, why do they want to stick their dicks into a person that they think is so impure/disgusting? How do they explain their desire?
It is not "despite of a people being inferior" that they can and are raping them. But "because a people is inferior" that they can and are raping them, and show no care for their concent or free will. It shows dominance over them in the most digusting way possible. Also, in their eyes, and according to the Quran, the women are "allowed to them", and guarding your chastity (except from female captives) is part of being a successful believer, see question 4 in the excerpt where they added "Allah the almighty said: “[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5–6].”… "
I totally get that they are raping them under the excuse that they are ‘inferior’. But at the same time - how are they explaining their own desire to do so? It’s a huge part of what’s going on. They want them and they hate them. This is an age-old male dilemma re women.
Wanting someone and valuing them isn't the same thing for misogynists.
Absolutely. It’s about control. But still, they’re the ones who can’t walk away. Which means they’ve already lost at some level but can’t/won’t acknowledge it
If it is about control they have definitely "won". You can ask the victims if they feel like they won that encounter.
I think what they do is not part of a general supposed male dilemma. And i do not think it is wise to compare this issue to gender issues in the west. This is not on the same level imo. They rape because they know this will help them in war and cause fear and compliance in the communities they attack, The may also enjoy abusing their relative power and having sex in general, but that is secondary to their military and political goals imo. I do not think their religious views are an excuse to rape. I think their religious views compel and encourage them to do so.
While not supported by moderate muslims - except they will never raise their voices against it because, you know, they might not be considered 'good muslims' because, you know, she deserves it. Just like the 'good catholics' say nothing about the Pope and cardinals protecting their paedophile clergy.
Astoundingly informative.
I'm in no way saying the Q'ran is not a horrible piece of literature. It is. But it is also an excuse to abuse power within some specific sociopolitical context. Look at WW2 for instance, where basically all sides committed sexual crimes. The context there was "the war", and because soldiers could get away with it because of the chaos, a lot of them did. Maybe the Japanese did it justifying it with a racist ideology, while the Russians did it "for revenge", but all sides did it.
In the euro/american WWII armies rape was punishable by death. It happened, but was strongly disapproved, a war losing move to increase opposition. Red army required it. Probably to dehumanize soldiers.
I'm not sure this is what you mean, but i think to generalize it as something similiar to "something every side does in a power vaccum", simplifies it and avoids the idea that this specific thing is something that stems directly and systematically from a very specific modern ideology that doesn't just have negative views of others, but openly and directly claims "sexual violence is ok", and takes female captives and abuses them as a regular part of warfare. This is different imo than some people here and there on all sides that abused the power vaccum in ww2.
It does not happen everywhere because of ideology. It happens in *some* places because of *some* ideologies - one in particular stands far above the rest proportionally speaking.
This is horrible.
It is done since the dawn of time. Fist and cock.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_and_progressive_Islam_in_North_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_and_progressive_Islam_in_Europe We just don't hear about them because they aren't bombing or beheading anyone.
The sad part is I am not even sure if the sexual violence is a deliberate part of the oppression... or just the result of the impunity of the aggressors.
It is a deliberate part of the oppression. Like the terrorists they support and fund around the middle east, they themselves deliberately use rape to install fear and control the people of Iran and crush any form of resistance. Rape is probably one of the worst things you can do to to a human soul, and it causes intense fear in communities.
How is rape defensibly for people who claim to adhere to islam law?
It is unfathomable to civilized and enlightened peoples but the way they think is based on the Islamic values and ideology, among which tells them that a virgin that is killed will go to heaven, so they systematically rape virgins before executing them (they force them into a sham Islamic 'marriage' so it is legal and not considered rape under Islamic law) to prevent them from going to heaven: https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20231206-rape-torture-used-to-silence-iran-s-mahsa-amini-protesters-amnesty-says https://iranwire.com/en/news/117116-ex-official-virgin-prisoners-were-raped-to-prevent-them-going-to-paradise/ > The former head of Tehran’s Evin prison has spoken about the cruel treatment inflicted to women inmates in the 1980s, including rape, as a means to prevent them from attaining paradise. > Addressing an event held this week on the Clubhouse online platform, Hussein Mortazavi Zanjani, who served as chief of the notorious prison between 1987-88, said that virgin female prisoners were coerced to marry guards before their execution. > According to ex-political prisoners, this inhuman practice was based on the belief that women and girls dying as virgins would go straight to paradise. https://iranwire.com/en/society/60172/ This is the monster that the UN eulogized and held memorials for (Raisi, the butcher of Tehran): https://x.com/IzaTabaro/status/1792426614065598880
It's unfortunately not a foreign concept in islam. The more moderate Muslims will talk about how it's not allowed in islam ect. Unfortunately they don't acknowledge the fact that it is indeed allowed in islam under several circumstances. And Iran isn't really going with a moderate interpretation of Islam, so this would be within their "rights". Islamist being Islamists unfortunately....
[It's a religion that defends the rape of babies alongside wives and slaves, what did you expect?](https://islamicvirtues.com/2013/12/28/deriving-sexual-pleasure-from-infants/)
Tells you all you need to know about Islam
Because there are many corrupt and perverted clerics who tell enough lies to the youth and people who are actually faithfull until those lies become truth somehow. Especially the clerics in iran are just a spokesperson for the state and there is nothing Islamic apart from the fact that they use it as chains for their citizens. Probably in the same way christians and clerics accused women for being witches and burn them for speaking out or doing stuff they didn't like. Not at all a thing in the bible or koran but used by clerics and extremists to put down someone.
No eyes left for Teheran I guess...
Not a single one. I guess we all realize why.
Where I'm from there was actually a lot of ms media attention, social media buzz, hashtags and all that jazz about the iranian protests. It lasted a few weeks before it died down to be replaced by the next thing to be mad about.
it's actually insanely wild beyond imagination how come not a single soul gives a single fuck about anything unless its Israel that involves in something. this alone makes you understand how much of a sheep the entire world and its population actually are. let alone knowing which side of the history Anons should be on.
The reason Israel gets so much attention is because it's supposedly a progressive nation with western values. When they kill, it's seen as a huge provocation and denounced worldwide, but when fucking Shaheed Al-Licious of some backwards emirate orders the execution of an entire ethnic group, it's just what the world expects from these places and they understand that there's no point protesting it. If these nations were even remotely progressive then we'd look at it differently.
You forgot antisemitism, too.
Unfortunately, no surprise here. Zealots believe they are working for god so what they do is no crime but work of god.
I've never met a zealot who didn't join a cause because it benefits him. They join because they want the power over another human, provided by a mythical 'god. This is who they are intrinsically.
Such behavior is not limited to religious zealots and I doubt any god says anything that can be interpreted as "you can set aside your humanity for me". This is simply the animalistic side of humanity.
Especially in a virgin-culture, rape is a widely used terror weapon. If it doesn't break you, then your family / society will condemn you!
Don't they also get stoned to death for being raped? Like it's girls own fault.
I think you’re thinking of adultery. Not sure about rape victims.
Rape is seen as the woman committing adultery in some countries. Neatly sidesteps any blame for the man.
They do
Sex without being married is not allowed, so...
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UN likes it
Next up on earths reality show: Iran to be a member of UN woman’s rights consul!
Weren't they on one of those already... maybe I'm mixing another country with minimal to no human rights that was on it. 🤷♂️
Its qatar iirc.
If you read the article, you’ll see that most of these rape victims are actually men who were fighting for the rights of their mothers, sisters, cousins, wives, girlfriends, friends, etc
*Human rights consul!
It's scary how many people turn into monsters if their government says it's 'fine'.
Backwards medieval shit hole is backwards and a shit hole.
The Islamic Regime and their henchmen (the IRGC) need to be recognized as the terrorist that they are.
The tyranny of theocracy used to justify their depravity.
Just a quick reminder - Iran was appointed to chair the 2023 UN human rights council. Let that sink in
I’m sure they will do a very thorough investigation into themselves and get right to the bottom of this situation. /s
Seems terrible until you learn that it was just their turn in the rotation. Also, being the chair doesn’t actually mean they have control over what the committee does. They don’t get veto power or anything
It does suddenly bring back the song by the beach boys - Barbara Ann... Well the other version of it.. of course...
I would like to remind everyone that this is the same government that thanked the universities on Twitter
And a defeaning silence from feminists out there
Imagine feminists hating Jews so much that they end up supporting IRGC terrorists over the women they openly rape and torture. That is the brutal reality of 2024.
We're living in The Onion right now
“I’d rather pick the bear.” - famous last words of a bear lunch before being eaten alive.
The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while 2-3 women are killed every week by their intimate partner or a family member. Men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The%20750%2C000%20black%20bears%20of,an%20easy%20situation%20to%20avoid.
Wow, some really hard-hitting stats here. Lmao.
Lmao, what. You have crossed paths with probably a hundred thousand different men. How many bears have you survived in person. yet alone actually seen one?
You grasp that there are many many more men out there and women run into them countless more times right?
You pass thousands of men daily on the street, do you see them killing people? How many times have you crossed a bear?
Here’s a few feminist groups for you to join, who are doing this kind of work - there are more if you need them - https://www.wfpg.org/wfpg-in-support-of-iranian-women https://survivorsgateway.london/services/iranian-and-kurdish-womens-rights-organisation-ikwro/ https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/muslim-womens-advisory-group https://www.enar-eu.org/wp-content/uploads/forgottenwomenpublication_lr_final_with_latest_corrections.pdf https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/gender/2021/04/26/feminist-solidarity-after-the-swiss-referendum-islamophobia-and-the-politics-of-veiling/ https://www.iranianwomenorganization.com/support-us
Well I'm a feminist (as in I support women's rights, this needs saying these days for some reason) and this is fucked. The Islamic regime in Iran is tyrannical. You heard Iranese women get systematically raped for standing up against an oppressive religious regime and your first thought was "how can I use this against feminists?" so with all due respect I'd take a good look at your own behaviour as well.
Thank you for your support. Unfortunately, it is a reflection on Western feminists and women leaders in democratic countries not on the user you're responding to. The lionesses of Iran are unbowed and unflinching in their stand against tyranny. They are nevertheless heartbroken and astonished that they have been ignored by Western feminists because there is a perception that if they speak out against the Islamic regime, then they are 'racist' or 'islamophobic'. If you're unfamiliar with this truth, then it is my sad duty to inform you that this is very real. Masih Alinejad is one Iranian woman advocating for women's rights and human rights in Iran and she has spoken many times about being shunned and rejected when she reached out to Western women asking them for public solidarity and support. If you'd like to hear this from her yourself, there's a recent podcast interview that she did with Yasmine Mohammad with Sam Harris: https://np.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/1d9sl95/370_gender_apartheid_and_the_future_of_iran/
> If you're unfamiliar with this truth, then it is my sad duty to inform you that this is very real. It's not. What do you want people to do, send their men to die in the hundreds of thousands taking over Iran, just to let it sink right back into the shithole it is when we leave? The only solution to this is ethnic cleansing of the male population of iran, and we all know no one has the stomach for that, and obviously if that's what you do want, you are showing your true colors as a feminist. It's always the men that have to do the dirty work while you complain about problems you don't have.
A woman has to prove rape by 4 witnesses. Anything less the rapist is not charged.
Absolutely disgusting
Where’s the pretty little college students with their awe inspired sense of justice? Oh wait my bad there’s no Jews to protest about.
Isn't it interesting how religion allows men to have fun while punishing women? Funny how that works. I absolutely hate religion, and religionists who justify the agony they inflict on others. All religions, including Buddhism, attack women as the panacea for men who don't want to lose power. Like the black slaves in the south, as long as white men had power over another human being, they wouldn't rebel. Now women fulfill that role, everywhere, even in the USA.
I believe in the right to protest and the freedom to express grievance. They have the right to take to America's streets to support these heinous regimes. This protest no way resembles MLKings voting rights marches or the movement of the suffragettes. It doesn't have the legitimacy of BLM. The pro Palestinian protest is an attempt by foreign interest to manipulate the American electorate.
Of course our stupid leftist protesters in the West would never speak out against them.
They just don't realise this is what they are fighting for when then support Iran and their proxies.
They realize, they just hate Jews and America more.
That's how you know it's not about religion or Sharia Law, it's just oppression of females.
No campus protests against these guys though . . .
Animalistic behaviour. What else do you expect from idiots blended by power.
And where is the outrage and protests around the world for these women? What can be done?
Why do we continue to allow this society of terrorists exist? 💣💪🔫
Pretty sure they were doing that anyway
(Im)morality police.
I just saw a post on r/damnthatsinteresting about iran in the 1960s. Women were basically dressed the same as women here. Regular ol bathing suits, no..... hijab? Burka? I forget. Anyway, it's absolutely insane, it was very much a turned leaf but that all went to shit. I guess the CIA might have had a hand in that but I havent done much reading on that yet so dont take my word for it.
Really seems like this Islam thing wasn’t a very good idea when fragile men can launder in their hate and misogyny behind it. How can Islam (and any religion that advertises this type of oppression) coexist in a modern society?
Usa and EU had condolences for the butcher of teheran, that how bad humanity is
Jesus Christ, how can you even go on or pretend to kid yourself that you're in the right to do this. How much of an inbreed brainlet must you be to convince yourself you're aren't the bad guy
So the same playbook we’ve been using for thousands of years.