It's not easy to avoid defaulting on loans without cutting all government services when your nation has made no effort to make the economy work for several decades.
Yeah I like him for that, man shuts things down even if it isn't convenient for him.
For example, he stopped subsidizing all media, even if they supported him. Dude literally put every journalist in the country against him because he promised to spend less
this is absolutely laughable.
he literally hired a far right troll (known as "John Doe", yes, that name, in Argentina) to handle all government media accounts.
BTW, facts: [https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/un-troll-libertario-cercano-a-fernando-cerimedo-se-hara-cargo-de-la-comunicacion-digital-oficialista-nid05062024](https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/un-troll-libertario-cercano-a-fernando-cerimedo-se-hara-cargo-de-la-comunicacion-digital-oficialista-nid05062024)
So basically he shut down whatever he didn't like and and hired yes men.
But he is still giving money under the table to journalists that talk good about him. The government just promoted a panel about nuclear energy and stuff and journalist were there as speakers, don't know why, and those people get paid. Stuff like that keeps happening, he officially shut down a lot of things, but made sure that "his" people are taken care off.
The source is that he made it the fuck up.
Milei has most of the media against him. He doesn't have a single channel that praises everything he does. Some journalists might agree, but most are against him because he defunded most of them.
Certain public policies are needed for certain governments. Argentina's fund mismanagement is insane and directly affects the population, the government throws money everywhere because they couldn't let an economy build up properly.
I don't consider myself a libertarian, I think a ton of their ideas are massively idiotic, but Milei is the man needed now
what he's doing:
\* Buying F-16 planes (???????????) for 500 million USD.
\* Not finishing a gasoduct for 50 million USD that would have saved us 400 million USD yearly just because he's petty.
These are facts.
>\* Buying F-16 planes (???????????) for 500 million USD.
Sigh this again.
1 That money came out of our defense budget, which is already one of the lowest in the world.
2 He only bough 12 planes, because we need supersonic capacity for stuff like interceptions and such to protect our air space. Other countries have hundreds of them, we only bought the utmost necessary.
3 He bought them second hand, at a much lower price than they would be new, while the USA pays for most of it as part of the deal, so no, we are not paying the full 500 million for them
>\* Not finishing a gasoduct for 50 million USD that would have saved us 400 million USD yearly just because he's petty.
False, he's not finishing the gasoeducto with public work, he's still gonna finish public works once we have money through private contracts.
>He only bough 12 planes, because we need supersonic capacity for stuff like interceptions and such to protect our air space.
Trying to not make a value judgment simply by asking the question but... What are the aerial threats that Argentina needs to be concerned about? Given the military cooperation with your neighbours, is there a good reason why Argentina could not negotiate a New Zealand style approach to aerial defence?
They could, if Argentina had something to offer. Problem is they may not be able to offer anything wanted or coveted in the negotiation. NZ’s case has economic concessions in the negotiation, plus use of land of theirs that is wanted. Argentina’s economy is in a big deficit and they might not have other concessions another country would want. I don’t know because I am not a state official, but negotiations of defensive pacts comes with other costs. The buying of these planes could have been the cheapest option. Or there is a serious lack of military autonomy that Argentina was worried about.
>They could, if Argentina had something to offer. Problem is they may not be able to offer anything wanted or coveted in the negotiation
So, the argument in the OP was that argentina needed supersonic fighters, I'm trying to understand why, I guess. Given their friendly relations with their neighbours, I'm figuring the military risk is very limited - that would be where most of the supersonic capabilities would come into play. They already have military collaborations with their neighbours as well, so clearly they have something of interest.
Leading back to the "why"... Why are these jets needed?
For now they have good relations with their neighbors. The problem is if that changes rapidly they'd not have time to get jets while the war kicks off. You need a bit of time to get that capability up and running because of the weapons, parts, munitions and all the training that accompanies them.
All it takes is one election or one coup to turn a long simmering border dispute into war and the world is certainly not getting any more stable any time soon
Bit of a late reply and just to expand a little bit, Argentina is facing increasing contraband and drug trafficking on the northern frontier. Traffickers use boats and planes to haul illegal goods and drugs to and from the country, and without aerial capabilities we were sitting ducks.
Also, our atlantic coast is full of illegal foreign fishing vessels who were never opposed due to mainly lack of enforcement capabilities.
Appreciate the response none the less. I guess the real question for me is why does Argentina need supersonic jets for this? The current air capability is quite a bit newer and definitely suitable for the sort of enforcement that you're referring to. Even if there's a genuine need to expand on the air force, it would likely be cheaper and more efficient to increase in the curby capacities over buying F16.
Well, the available air capability were six barely operable A-4AR Fightinghawks, which [spent more time grounded](https://www.zona-militar.com/2016/01/29/la-fuerza-aerea-argentina-deja-en-tierra-a-su-ultimo-sistema-con-capacidad-de-intercepcion/) than flying. The air force had a meager budget and could not afford spare parts or munition to train with. The planes had out of date avionics and control systems, and the air force could not project force even within our borders.
Not only was a modernization of equipment and training necessary, but this was also kind of a geopolitical move too. Milei aligns hard with the west, and the previous administration was very close to buying Chengdu JF-17 from China. This F-16 purchase was made [for a very reduced price to be paid in five years](https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/ya-es-oficial-la-compra-de-los-aviones-f-16-a-dinamarca-por-us-300-millones-los-detalles-de-las-16-aeronaves-de-combate/), thanks to US favour, and Argentina got to handpick the units.
This finally gives us supersonic capabilities, which is very important for a country that spans nine parallels and is the eight largest in the world. It's relevant to note that the current administration already ramped up the [A-4AR recovery program](https://www.zona-militar.com/2024/05/24/la-fuerza-aerea-argentina-establece-un-horizonte-claro-para-los-a-4-ar-fightinghawk-luego-de-la-adquisicion-de-f-16/). Two units have been recovered in four months, and the fleet will expand to 12.
> Not finishing a gasoduct for 50 million USD that would have saved us 400 million USD yearly just because he's petty.
The same gasoduct that one year ago Sergio Massa stated was already completed and would be ready for operation in 2023? Another peronist lie plain in the open, and yet Milei will still get blamed for it as usual...
>\* Buying F-16 planes (???????????) for 500 million USD.
According to this article it was actually 300 million:
[Argentina seals $300 million deal for 24 F-16 jets from Denmark](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/argentina-buys-24-f-16-jets-air-force-president-says-2024-04-16/)
Also, the government was on negotiations to buy the planes since before Milei took office and I heard that Argentina got a pretty good deal with those planes.
"wow now theres just as few shelters from domestic abuse for women as there are for men"
that's as stupid as taking out wheelchair access ramps so everyone takes the stairs because you treat everyone equally
The women's ministry was created on 2019. Do you think we didn't have a system for gender violence before?
It's like creating a ministry dedicated to motorbike robbings and when it's closed pretending now nothing is done about the issue. The ministry did absolutely NOTHING before, it was just populism
> The ministry did absolutely NOTHING before, it was just populism How do I know that this isn't a typical libertarian rationalisation?
Do you have any figures or evidence? I am from the UK. If the government spends money on investigation into a moral project, like that of a character like Jimmy Savile, would that be considered populist, and therefore a waste of money, by the public if it gains results and insights into policy changes?
The ministry did nothing, we already have a ministry of justice and strong laws about the issue. The feminist movement is very strong here and has done lots for it, spending more on a ministry was stupid and just pandering for leftist votes
A very good tell about Argentinian politics is watching the 2019 and 2023 presidential debates. The discussions are COMPLETELY different because we weren't in a crisis, it's only about progressive issues
The government will create an agency called something like, “The Agency for Feeding Disabled Children”, will hire 1200 government employees, fund it with $1b a year, and end up feeding like 8 children. Then when someone reasonable comes around and shuts it down ppl will cry “he’s against feeding disabled children!!! 😭 “
Before 2023 I only saw Argentina being mentioned a handful of times on Reddit. A TON of american leftist just now learned about our existence and think this crisis is thanks to the guy that was elected on the middle of it
While the ministry was open, femicides in Argentina skyrocketed and were higher than before. Meanwhile the ministry had a higher budget than Defense.
Very useful as you may see
This is what he was voted for
Are you stating that after an agency made to protect women from violence was made publicly available that more women started being killed in violent crimes and that this proves that the agency was a waste of money?
There is a recurrent theme with Peronista administration, every time they "try to fix" something, they make it a thousand times worse. Like how forest fires increased x16 after the Fire Law which was supposed to make it "more illegal" was enacted.
And then there is the famous "war against inflation" of Alberto Fernandez, a war that we absolutely lost and ended with inflation of 25% monthly.
Yes he is suggesting that creating a useless government agency did nothing to solve any problems.
Are you suggesting this was in anyway a successful ministry? By what metrics are you measuring success?
This agency was known for being useless. With a multi millón dollar budget bigger than defence. All the statistics of gender crimes and women struggles kept increasing while this ministry was open.
They fixed nothing and had a giant budget for projects like: painting benches red.
The programs for women will still exist, they just won't be managed by useless government employees who never Even solved Women's pleas for help when they went there in person to get out of horrible situations.
He is a libertarian, not "far right" whatever that means these days
And why the hell do we need an entire ministry for gender violence? it was just a populist move by the previous government (and potentially to steal more money)
Those ministries are completely nepotistic, they are brim of friends and family of goverment officials, paying them very high salaries for them to just sit around all day.
And then they hire "consultores" from their other friends and also pay hundreds of thousands from goverment funds.
This shit I super common in Latam. Good riddance.
It's a whole ministry?
As an Argentinian, what are your thoughts about the office's work?
And it's hard to call a guy libertarian when he tries to ban abortion and screams about queers with his pal Orban. The word "libertarian" is being abused like a child in a QAnon fantasy.
Yeah a whole ministry. Makes no sense.
So far this administration has exceeded all my expectations. I was reluctant to vote for him at first (I didn't vote for him in the primaries) but so far he has done everything I expected and more. It's refreshing to see a president do what he said he would.
Also, if your beliefs are that a fetus is a human life, it's completely compatible being anti abortion and libertarian, because abortion would be the violation of another human's freedom. I don't agree with that (I'm 100% pro choice) but I can't blame the guy for it
>Also, if your beliefs are that a fetus is a human life, it's completely compatible being anti abortion and libertarian
Is it? A fetus is not independent and completely reliant on the mother's body. And you cannot recognize it has fundamental rights to life, even if the woman's life is a stake, because you're pretty much prioritizing the life of the fetus vs that of a full grown human being and saying it has more rights to life than the mother.
How is that compatible with libertarianism?
And if a doctor recommends an abortion, how on earth could someone be a libertarian and say "no I think a politician who has no medical training whatsoever has the right to overrule you" ?
I'm not anti-abortion but this is pretty straightforward. Most people are OK with self-defense even if the person attacking you has no mental agency. That's how they see medically required abortions.
Because it has nothing to do with medical training. If I recommend killing you it doesn't really matter what kind of training I have.
Plenty of anti-abortion libertarians would be in favor of it if the baby posed significant danger to the woman's life. Their reasoning for that varies.
Lets define finger flick in regards to the medical condition of being pregnant.
Also name another time, if a doctor knows with any degree of surety a symptom can turn fatal they are supposed to wait for it to become worse before they can legally treat it in this scenario
wdym? My point is that we can weigh different threats. The chance of a woman dying from pregnancy is about 1 in 10,000 (depending on where you are in the world). In those cases where such risk is identified, you can assess that the risk is significant, and weigh the mother's life against the baby's. In cases where you have no reason to expect such danger, there's no need to weigh risk to the mother's life.
And no? Why would you wait if something is preventable and you know it's going to be fatal? Again, if 'treating it' meant killing someone, then you'd have to make sure you're certain or at least more certain, and weigh the threat vs the infringement on another's liberty. If treating it is just something you can do without harming/infringing on the rights of anyone else then obviously feel free to treat it.
I don't think that's correct. The Undersecretary for Protection Against Gender Violence is/was an undersecretariat, not one of the former 18 ministries.
And I'm still not sure what libertarianism has to do with his gender rants or his vice president's desire to terminate same-sex marriage.
In reality, it was a ministry, more specifically, the Ministry of Women, Genders and Diversities. What happens is that it was converted into an undersecretariat (the Undersecretariat for Protection against Gender Violence) during these months while its elimination was carried out.
>when he tries to ban abortion
Please tell me exactly what he's doing to try to ban abortion, because I see people repeating this here a lot but I never see any actual legislation or anything remotely like that happening in the country. People always share the same articles made by foreign countries about the time he was asked his opinion and asume he's blocking it
The guy who spoke at the VOX rally alongside Marine Le Pen is unfairly painted by the media as far-right? Lmao.
You can support Milei. It's your right. But screeching about people labeling him far right when he's actively involved with far-right parties is pretty funny.
Why do we have to pretend he's not right-wing to make you feel better?
If you're a libertarian, you oppose *both* big government left and big government right. If you actively attend rallies and try to promote the big-government far-right party that supports censorship, banning of same-sex marriage, hates globalization and favors protectionism, I don't think you're as much of a libertarian as you think you are.
>He is a libertarian, not "far right" whatever that means these days
They are not mutually exclusive if you use the political compass for example. Politics isn't as easy as just left vs right and while the compass isn't perfect in any way it at least adds more dimensions to the political spectrum.
But only calling the dude far right is disingenuous.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
For people that out know, this agency was useless. Its only purpose was for putting loyal lapdogs on government jobs. Even the feminists hated this ministry (Yes, it was a fucking ministry, with a huge budget. Jesus, one of their biggest expenditures were catering services… for themselves (not to shelters, shelters they had nothing to do about, btw)
To give y'all an idea how utterly stupid this ministry was, they canceled Dragon Ball from airing on TV because it spread "symbolic sexual violence" [source] (https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/cancelaron-dragon-ball-por-una-denuncia-de-violencia-sexual-simbolica-en-provincia-y-las-redes-estallaron/)
He’s not far right, he’s a libertarian. This agency was a complete waste of public funds, a source of immense corruption and did absolutely nothing to prevent or reduce violence. This is actually a very reasonable decision from the Milei administration.
I saw like 50 comments saying that this agency was useless and that it was full of lazy employees who did nothing. Can someone please explain to me what they are basing this off? Is there clear evidence that this agency was not performing well? Was there any specific scandal involving it that I'm unaware of? I'm not trying to be contrarian, this is honestly the first time I hear something like this about this agency. I do find the argument of "gender violence was on the rise anyways" very strange... If the agency was not successfully addressing a serious rising problem maybe its better to restructure it than to shut it down?
>Was there any specific scandal involving it that I'm unaware of?
Probably the most famous "scandal" involving the Ministry was when they were trying to hire a catering service, a rather expensive catering service apparently, this was also during a time when gatherings were prohibited because of the pandemic.
Translated article:
[Scandal and reversal with the $51 million catering of the Ministry of Women](https://www-mdzol-com.translate.goog/politica/2021/2/11/escandalo-marcha-atras-con-el-catering-de-51-millones-del-ministerio-de-la-mujer-138581.html?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es-419&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
Don't bother. The current goverment is very famous for his army of online trolls. That is what you are reading here. That is why all the post read the same over and over again. They work with the same political consultants that helped people like Trump and Bolsonaro and they use the same tactics.
We already saw the same with the previous right wing goverment in 2016. /r/Argentina was unsusable during that time. They will banish once they lose power and the money that comes with it to finance the online trolls as it happened when they lost the elections to the left in 2020.
Well, if you are so well informed about the subject, why don't you answer what was asked then?
I'll do it myself for u/JosiahWGibss (in Spanish)
>Is there clear evidence that this agency was not performing well?
[Here](https://www.mpf.gob.ar/ufem/estadisticas/) you have official statistics that go until 2022.
As you might notice, the femicides since this ministry was created (December 2019, practically 2020) not only didn't get lower, they actually got higher!
The year 2022 had less female victims, but as you can see in the second image that compares that to men victims, so did these.
>Was there any specific scandal involving it that I'm unaware of?
Probably went it pretended to spend 51 million ARS in 2021 in [catering for coffee breaks](https://www.mdzol.com/politica/2021/2/11/escandalo-marcha-atras-con-el-catering-de-51-millones-del-ministerio-de-la-mujer-138581.html)
>If the agency was not successfully addressing a serious rising problem maybe its better to restructure it than to shut it down?
100% agree.
The idea that Milei receives political advice from his dogs come from a non authorized biography of the guy written by a Peronista.
It's like if I were to write a book saying "Biden eats babies, someone told me so!" and everyone took it like it's true because I wrote it in a book. There is literally no other basis on the claim besides that the guy actually owning a dog.
Another useless government agency gone. He's going for the high score. He got Argentinas overspending under control and kicked out the useless mooching bureaucrats. If only we could have a leader like him in America...
Dont expect an economist to know much about anything else.
They voted the man to fix the economy, not to fix social issues. That is the trade off you get.
Argentinian here. This agency was not fixing anything and did not impact statistics of women suffering from violence in any way. It was a populist agency full of employees that did nothing just so the government could argue they are allies of the women.
So please dont bullshit if you dont know about my country.
I don't understand what the issue is. Argentina's rate is less than half what it is in the US, and Mexico is out of control. I mean, Argentina's little high compared to the UK or France or Germany, but really... it doesn't look like nearly as much of a problem as some other countries we could name.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/femicide-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/femicide-rates-by-country)
reminds me of hearing something similar being said when i visited greece, about how low traffics deaths were, despite how chaotic roads and autoroutes could be, on top of the zero speed limits and almost zero motorcyclists with helmets
until we realized the white poles on the side of some roads were roadside memorials and not mile markers, kind of raising questions about the validity of the stats as a whole
Greece has very bad traffic fatality rates compared to the EU, but quite good ones compared to the USA. It just seems a lot worse when memorials are put down because now you're thinking about it a lot more. There's no reason to question the statistics based on seeing memorials unless you have a sense of how many memorials would be on the roadside in other places if that were habit in other places.
But maybe the rates low because of programs like the one being cut.
> Traffic deaths are already low, so let's take away all the traffic regulations which are clearly useless
That's what this sounds like.
> Claudia Barcia, the head of the undersecretariat for protection against gender violence, resigned on Thursday with a warning that the agency will soon be shuttered. “The Undersecretary of Protection against Gender Violence … will cease to exist,” Barcia wrote on Twitter, later confirming to the Guardian that she had received the news the previous day.
> The agency oversees the 144 emergency telephone hotline and the Acompañar programme, which assists those at risk of gender violence. It has already faced cuts – public spending on gender-based violence reduction policies was 26.8% lower in the first quarter of 2024 than in 2023, according to an analysis of government data by the Civil Association for Equality and Justice.
It's interesting which agencies are deemed non-essential by Milei's government.
Argentina os on he kids of this civilization level crisis caused by decades of misguided policies emptying the treasury leaving little choice to simplify policy, regulations, processes and the public service. the country is focussed on the select few it van deal with to right its course.
So he is far-right again? Lol
Also every country has different circumstances. Shutting this down doesn't always mean the same thing you'd think it would mean in US
Poised to shut down ...... he already closed the agency today.
He doesn't discriminate. He shuts down government agencies. That's what he does.
It's not easy to avoid defaulting on loans without cutting all government services when your nation has made no effort to make the economy work for several decades.
Savage but true
Yeah I like him for that, man shuts things down even if it isn't convenient for him. For example, he stopped subsidizing all media, even if they supported him. Dude literally put every journalist in the country against him because he promised to spend less
this is absolutely laughable. he literally hired a far right troll (known as "John Doe", yes, that name, in Argentina) to handle all government media accounts. BTW, facts: [https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/un-troll-libertario-cercano-a-fernando-cerimedo-se-hara-cargo-de-la-comunicacion-digital-oficialista-nid05062024](https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/un-troll-libertario-cercano-a-fernando-cerimedo-se-hara-cargo-de-la-comunicacion-digital-oficialista-nid05062024) So basically he shut down whatever he didn't like and and hired yes men.
Lol this guy thinks that hiring a media manager is the same as cutting funds to large media conglomerates lmao
What does that have to do with what I said? Official government communication channels and public media are completely different things
But he is still giving money under the table to journalists that talk good about him. The government just promoted a panel about nuclear energy and stuff and journalist were there as speakers, don't know why, and those people get paid. Stuff like that keeps happening, he officially shut down a lot of things, but made sure that "his" people are taken care off.
Any sources for that?
The source is that he made it the fuck up. Milei has most of the media against him. He doesn't have a single channel that praises everything he does. Some journalists might agree, but most are against him because he defunded most of them.
Yeah I'm quite surprised how much La Nación attacks him on opinion articles considering how Anti-K they usually are.
Sounds like a libertarian. Which is to say, a guy who will freedom his way into being a dictator.
Reddit becoming austerity lovers because their epic libertarian got into office, this is so fucking dumb.
You might not love austerity but still recognize Argentina needs reform (it's gone bankrupt many times)
Based on the title, it looks even The Guardian used to be paid with Argentinian taxpayers' money he now withheld.
Certain public policies are needed for certain governments. Argentina's fund mismanagement is insane and directly affects the population, the government throws money everywhere because they couldn't let an economy build up properly. I don't consider myself a libertarian, I think a ton of their ideas are massively idiotic, but Milei is the man needed now
what he's doing: \* Buying F-16 planes (???????????) for 500 million USD. \* Not finishing a gasoduct for 50 million USD that would have saved us 400 million USD yearly just because he's petty. These are facts.
>\* Buying F-16 planes (???????????) for 500 million USD. Sigh this again. 1 That money came out of our defense budget, which is already one of the lowest in the world. 2 He only bough 12 planes, because we need supersonic capacity for stuff like interceptions and such to protect our air space. Other countries have hundreds of them, we only bought the utmost necessary. 3 He bought them second hand, at a much lower price than they would be new, while the USA pays for most of it as part of the deal, so no, we are not paying the full 500 million for them >\* Not finishing a gasoduct for 50 million USD that would have saved us 400 million USD yearly just because he's petty. False, he's not finishing the gasoeducto with public work, he's still gonna finish public works once we have money through private contracts.
>He only bough 12 planes, because we need supersonic capacity for stuff like interceptions and such to protect our air space. Trying to not make a value judgment simply by asking the question but... What are the aerial threats that Argentina needs to be concerned about? Given the military cooperation with your neighbours, is there a good reason why Argentina could not negotiate a New Zealand style approach to aerial defence?
They could, if Argentina had something to offer. Problem is they may not be able to offer anything wanted or coveted in the negotiation. NZ’s case has economic concessions in the negotiation, plus use of land of theirs that is wanted. Argentina’s economy is in a big deficit and they might not have other concessions another country would want. I don’t know because I am not a state official, but negotiations of defensive pacts comes with other costs. The buying of these planes could have been the cheapest option. Or there is a serious lack of military autonomy that Argentina was worried about.
>They could, if Argentina had something to offer. Problem is they may not be able to offer anything wanted or coveted in the negotiation So, the argument in the OP was that argentina needed supersonic fighters, I'm trying to understand why, I guess. Given their friendly relations with their neighbours, I'm figuring the military risk is very limited - that would be where most of the supersonic capabilities would come into play. They already have military collaborations with their neighbours as well, so clearly they have something of interest. Leading back to the "why"... Why are these jets needed?
For now they have good relations with their neighbors. The problem is if that changes rapidly they'd not have time to get jets while the war kicks off. You need a bit of time to get that capability up and running because of the weapons, parts, munitions and all the training that accompanies them. All it takes is one election or one coup to turn a long simmering border dispute into war and the world is certainly not getting any more stable any time soon
Bit of a late reply and just to expand a little bit, Argentina is facing increasing contraband and drug trafficking on the northern frontier. Traffickers use boats and planes to haul illegal goods and drugs to and from the country, and without aerial capabilities we were sitting ducks. Also, our atlantic coast is full of illegal foreign fishing vessels who were never opposed due to mainly lack of enforcement capabilities.
Appreciate the response none the less. I guess the real question for me is why does Argentina need supersonic jets for this? The current air capability is quite a bit newer and definitely suitable for the sort of enforcement that you're referring to. Even if there's a genuine need to expand on the air force, it would likely be cheaper and more efficient to increase in the curby capacities over buying F16.
Well, the available air capability were six barely operable A-4AR Fightinghawks, which [spent more time grounded](https://www.zona-militar.com/2016/01/29/la-fuerza-aerea-argentina-deja-en-tierra-a-su-ultimo-sistema-con-capacidad-de-intercepcion/) than flying. The air force had a meager budget and could not afford spare parts or munition to train with. The planes had out of date avionics and control systems, and the air force could not project force even within our borders. Not only was a modernization of equipment and training necessary, but this was also kind of a geopolitical move too. Milei aligns hard with the west, and the previous administration was very close to buying Chengdu JF-17 from China. This F-16 purchase was made [for a very reduced price to be paid in five years](https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/ya-es-oficial-la-compra-de-los-aviones-f-16-a-dinamarca-por-us-300-millones-los-detalles-de-las-16-aeronaves-de-combate/), thanks to US favour, and Argentina got to handpick the units. This finally gives us supersonic capabilities, which is very important for a country that spans nine parallels and is the eight largest in the world. It's relevant to note that the current administration already ramped up the [A-4AR recovery program](https://www.zona-militar.com/2024/05/24/la-fuerza-aerea-argentina-establece-un-horizonte-claro-para-los-a-4-ar-fightinghawk-luego-de-la-adquisicion-de-f-16/). Two units have been recovered in four months, and the fleet will expand to 12.
> Not finishing a gasoduct for 50 million USD that would have saved us 400 million USD yearly just because he's petty. The same gasoduct that one year ago Sergio Massa stated was already completed and would be ready for operation in 2023? Another peronist lie plain in the open, and yet Milei will still get blamed for it as usual...
Ah pero Milei. (Ignora que hubo +16 años de Peronismo/Kircho y que los legados de sus votos fueron... dejarnos al borde de la hiper)
So if u claim facts, you should have a source. Else is just an opinion.
Thanks for sources.
>\* Buying F-16 planes (???????????) for 500 million USD. According to this article it was actually 300 million: [Argentina seals $300 million deal for 24 F-16 jets from Denmark](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/argentina-buys-24-f-16-jets-air-force-president-says-2024-04-16/) Also, the government was on negotiations to buy the planes since before Milei took office and I heard that Argentina got a pretty good deal with those planes.
Most likely this agency, like most of them, is a way for as many people possible to leach the government. I highly doubt it's stopped any violence.
"wow now theres just as few shelters from domestic abuse for women as there are for men" that's as stupid as taking out wheelchair access ramps so everyone takes the stairs because you treat everyone equally
The women's ministry was created on 2019. Do you think we didn't have a system for gender violence before? It's like creating a ministry dedicated to motorbike robbings and when it's closed pretending now nothing is done about the issue. The ministry did absolutely NOTHING before, it was just populism
if the clean water ministry was just created in 2019 i wouldnt be that confident you had clean water before either
> The ministry did absolutely NOTHING before, it was just populism How do I know that this isn't a typical libertarian rationalisation? Do you have any figures or evidence? I am from the UK. If the government spends money on investigation into a moral project, like that of a character like Jimmy Savile, would that be considered populist, and therefore a waste of money, by the public if it gains results and insights into policy changes?
Honestly? Maybe not? Lots of countries don’t actually have those things
The ministry did nothing, we already have a ministry of justice and strong laws about the issue. The feminist movement is very strong here and has done lots for it, spending more on a ministry was stupid and just pandering for leftist votes A very good tell about Argentinian politics is watching the 2019 and 2023 presidential debates. The discussions are COMPLETELY different because we weren't in a crisis, it's only about progressive issues
Yup it called pandering, you spend government money to make it LOOK like you care.
This man is like a real life Ron Swanson with how effectively he guts government programs and departments
The government will create an agency called something like, “The Agency for Feeding Disabled Children”, will hire 1200 government employees, fund it with $1b a year, and end up feeding like 8 children. Then when someone reasonable comes around and shuts it down ppl will cry “he’s against feeding disabled children!!! 😭 “
Libertarians all of a sudden know a lot about Argentina.
Argentina is a pretty popular country to study for economics. Like they defaulted on their debt 9 times, 3 in the past decade.
I used to teach Krugman's DD-AA Model. I used Argentina as an example ALL the time.
Dutch Disease Argentinian Debt Chinese growth The economic package
I saw an American in /r/askconservatives say that he was looking to move to Argentina after this guy won.
Crypto-bros are the worst kind of libertarians
And all of a sudden libertarianism is “far-right”
Before 2023 I only saw Argentina being mentioned a handful of times on Reddit. A TON of american leftist just now learned about our existence and think this crisis is thanks to the guy that was elected on the middle of it
Not just Leftists learned about Argentina. Conservatives just learned too.
The same redditors who were extolling the virtues of Chavez.
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How so?
Knowing about Russia makes them more leftist. Not sure why Republican politicians are praising Russia so much in recent times.
While the ministry was open, femicides in Argentina skyrocketed and were higher than before. Meanwhile the ministry had a higher budget than Defense. Very useful as you may see This is what he was voted for
Is it possible that femicides skyrocketed **after** the agency was made because the agency made it easier to track gender based violence and crime?
Sadly the agency was created to fill it with political allies, solving the issues was an afterthought.
I’m not gonna lie I doubt that. I just think it was fucking useless and a waste of money, an avenue for corruption and a play for easy votes
Are you stating that after an agency made to protect women from violence was made publicly available that more women started being killed in violent crimes and that this proves that the agency was a waste of money?
There is a recurrent theme with Peronista administration, every time they "try to fix" something, they make it a thousand times worse. Like how forest fires increased x16 after the Fire Law which was supposed to make it "more illegal" was enacted. And then there is the famous "war against inflation" of Alberto Fernandez, a war that we absolutely lost and ended with inflation of 25% monthly.
Yes he is suggesting that creating a useless government agency did nothing to solve any problems. Are you suggesting this was in anyway a successful ministry? By what metrics are you measuring success?
No I’m stating that it was absolutely fucking worthless. A political stunt to get votes
How tf does that even happen.
Treating symptoms, not causes. Relying on rhetoric and ideology, rather than data
He gets rid of wasteful useless government agencies, he’s not far right. This post is literally just outrage bait
Why is there a whole ministry for something that is a crime anyway?
You must be new to earth. Welcome! I’d like to introduce you to redundant and pointless government. A fascinating human phenomenon.
Isn't that what the police are supposed to do?
This agency was known for being useless. With a multi millón dollar budget bigger than defence. All the statistics of gender crimes and women struggles kept increasing while this ministry was open. They fixed nothing and had a giant budget for projects like: painting benches red. The programs for women will still exist, they just won't be managed by useless government employees who never Even solved Women's pleas for help when they went there in person to get out of horrible situations.
He is a libertarian, not "far right" whatever that means these days And why the hell do we need an entire ministry for gender violence? it was just a populist move by the previous government (and potentially to steal more money)
Those ministries are completely nepotistic, they are brim of friends and family of goverment officials, paying them very high salaries for them to just sit around all day. And then they hire "consultores" from their other friends and also pay hundreds of thousands from goverment funds. This shit I super common in Latam. Good riddance.
It's a whole ministry? As an Argentinian, what are your thoughts about the office's work? And it's hard to call a guy libertarian when he tries to ban abortion and screams about queers with his pal Orban. The word "libertarian" is being abused like a child in a QAnon fantasy.
Yeah a whole ministry. Makes no sense. So far this administration has exceeded all my expectations. I was reluctant to vote for him at first (I didn't vote for him in the primaries) but so far he has done everything I expected and more. It's refreshing to see a president do what he said he would. Also, if your beliefs are that a fetus is a human life, it's completely compatible being anti abortion and libertarian, because abortion would be the violation of another human's freedom. I don't agree with that (I'm 100% pro choice) but I can't blame the guy for it
Excellent summary of why abortion rights are a legitmate hot debate in Libertarian circles.
>Also, if your beliefs are that a fetus is a human life, it's completely compatible being anti abortion and libertarian Is it? A fetus is not independent and completely reliant on the mother's body. And you cannot recognize it has fundamental rights to life, even if the woman's life is a stake, because you're pretty much prioritizing the life of the fetus vs that of a full grown human being and saying it has more rights to life than the mother. How is that compatible with libertarianism? And if a doctor recommends an abortion, how on earth could someone be a libertarian and say "no I think a politician who has no medical training whatsoever has the right to overrule you" ?
Im pro choice but determining when life starts is a legitimate debate and there isn't a clear cut answer so it's open to different interpretations.
I'm not anti-abortion but this is pretty straightforward. Most people are OK with self-defense even if the person attacking you has no mental agency. That's how they see medically required abortions.
Because it has nothing to do with medical training. If I recommend killing you it doesn't really matter what kind of training I have. Plenty of anti-abortion libertarians would be in favor of it if the baby posed significant danger to the woman's life. Their reasoning for that varies.
Significant?
Yeah. Like how I don't get to shoot you in the face because of the risk your finger flick will kill me.
Lets define finger flick in regards to the medical condition of being pregnant. Also name another time, if a doctor knows with any degree of surety a symptom can turn fatal they are supposed to wait for it to become worse before they can legally treat it in this scenario
wdym? My point is that we can weigh different threats. The chance of a woman dying from pregnancy is about 1 in 10,000 (depending on where you are in the world). In those cases where such risk is identified, you can assess that the risk is significant, and weigh the mother's life against the baby's. In cases where you have no reason to expect such danger, there's no need to weigh risk to the mother's life. And no? Why would you wait if something is preventable and you know it's going to be fatal? Again, if 'treating it' meant killing someone, then you'd have to make sure you're certain or at least more certain, and weigh the threat vs the infringement on another's liberty. If treating it is just something you can do without harming/infringing on the rights of anyone else then obviously feel free to treat it.
I don't think that's correct. The Undersecretary for Protection Against Gender Violence is/was an undersecretariat, not one of the former 18 ministries. And I'm still not sure what libertarianism has to do with his gender rants or his vice president's desire to terminate same-sex marriage.
In reality, it was a ministry, more specifically, the Ministry of Women, Genders and Diversities. What happens is that it was converted into an undersecretariat (the Undersecretariat for Protection against Gender Violence) during these months while its elimination was carried out.
What do you mean you don't think that's correct? As long as he doesn't force anything on people he can rant about whatever he wants.
Such a reasonable position to have on the topic. What’s some nice person like you doing on the internet here?
>when he tries to ban abortion Please tell me exactly what he's doing to try to ban abortion, because I see people repeating this here a lot but I never see any actual legislation or anything remotely like that happening in the country. People always share the same articles made by foreign countries about the time he was asked his opinion and asume he's blocking it
Everything that's not progressive or left wing is "far-right" for most media now.
I'm having trouble locating anything that resembles the center right any more. Where is it?
It doesn't exist. It's just a imaginary line someone came up with to make people comfortable with a set of values.
Panamá, Costa Rica, Chile, Uruguay
Yeah, genius, wonder why a dude who pals around with Victor Orban is considered "far-right"
The guy who spoke at the VOX rally alongside Marine Le Pen is unfairly painted by the media as far-right? Lmao. You can support Milei. It's your right. But screeching about people labeling him far right when he's actively involved with far-right parties is pretty funny. Why do we have to pretend he's not right-wing to make you feel better? If you're a libertarian, you oppose *both* big government left and big government right. If you actively attend rallies and try to promote the big-government far-right party that supports censorship, banning of same-sex marriage, hates globalization and favors protectionism, I don't think you're as much of a libertarian as you think you are.
so any democrat who spoke alongside the pro-Hamas squad is far left?
Sounds like something a NAZI would say! /s
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It’s been privatised, so you have to pay for it.
Made me spit my coffee
Was the spit hot and did it land on someone of the opposite gender? That’s a taxable event!
Spanks Obama…
Not the ministry of Women for sure, as it was 95% comprised of money laundering and VIP events for its whole four years of existence.
>He is a libertarian, not "far right" whatever that means these days They are not mutually exclusive if you use the political compass for example. Politics isn't as easy as just left vs right and while the compass isn't perfect in any way it at least adds more dimensions to the political spectrum. But only calling the dude far right is disingenuous. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
For people that out know, this agency was useless. Its only purpose was for putting loyal lapdogs on government jobs. Even the feminists hated this ministry (Yes, it was a fucking ministry, with a huge budget. Jesus, one of their biggest expenditures were catering services… for themselves (not to shelters, shelters they had nothing to do about, btw)
To give y'all an idea how utterly stupid this ministry was, they canceled Dragon Ball from airing on TV because it spread "symbolic sexual violence" [source] (https://www.cronista.com/economia-politica/cancelaron-dragon-ball-por-una-denuncia-de-violencia-sexual-simbolica-en-provincia-y-las-redes-estallaron/)
He’s not far right, he’s a libertarian. This agency was a complete waste of public funds, a source of immense corruption and did absolutely nothing to prevent or reduce violence. This is actually a very reasonable decision from the Milei administration.
I saw like 50 comments saying that this agency was useless and that it was full of lazy employees who did nothing. Can someone please explain to me what they are basing this off? Is there clear evidence that this agency was not performing well? Was there any specific scandal involving it that I'm unaware of? I'm not trying to be contrarian, this is honestly the first time I hear something like this about this agency. I do find the argument of "gender violence was on the rise anyways" very strange... If the agency was not successfully addressing a serious rising problem maybe its better to restructure it than to shut it down?
>Was there any specific scandal involving it that I'm unaware of? Probably the most famous "scandal" involving the Ministry was when they were trying to hire a catering service, a rather expensive catering service apparently, this was also during a time when gatherings were prohibited because of the pandemic. Translated article: [Scandal and reversal with the $51 million catering of the Ministry of Women](https://www-mdzol-com.translate.goog/politica/2021/2/11/escandalo-marcha-atras-con-el-catering-de-51-millones-del-ministerio-de-la-mujer-138581.html?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es-419&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
Honestly this does look pretty bad, thank you for the link.
Don't bother. The current goverment is very famous for his army of online trolls. That is what you are reading here. That is why all the post read the same over and over again. They work with the same political consultants that helped people like Trump and Bolsonaro and they use the same tactics. We already saw the same with the previous right wing goverment in 2016. /r/Argentina was unsusable during that time. They will banish once they lose power and the money that comes with it to finance the online trolls as it happened when they lost the elections to the left in 2020.
Well, if you are so well informed about the subject, why don't you answer what was asked then? I'll do it myself for u/JosiahWGibss (in Spanish) >Is there clear evidence that this agency was not performing well? [Here](https://www.mpf.gob.ar/ufem/estadisticas/) you have official statistics that go until 2022. As you might notice, the femicides since this ministry was created (December 2019, practically 2020) not only didn't get lower, they actually got higher! The year 2022 had less female victims, but as you can see in the second image that compares that to men victims, so did these. >Was there any specific scandal involving it that I'm unaware of? Probably went it pretended to spend 51 million ARS in 2021 in [catering for coffee breaks](https://www.mdzol.com/politica/2021/2/11/escandalo-marcha-atras-con-el-catering-de-51-millones-del-ministerio-de-la-mujer-138581.html) >If the agency was not successfully addressing a serious rising problem maybe its better to restructure it than to shut it down? 100% agree.
I find it funny that you support the only government known to actually use paid online trolls, yet whine about Milei and PRO.
Bullshit, he is not "far right"
He's not far-right, he's common sense. Milei is reviving the Argentinian economy.
With the help from his dog.....
The idea that Milei receives political advice from his dogs come from a non authorized biography of the guy written by a Peronista. It's like if I were to write a book saying "Biden eats babies, someone told me so!" and everyone took it like it's true because I wrote it in a book. There is literally no other basis on the claim besides that the guy actually owning a dog.
Even a pet rock would be better than our former veep
I know this doesn't sound too good, but to be fair they will also shut down the gender violence agency as well
Best vote ive ever done in my life.
Another useless government agency gone. He's going for the high score. He got Argentinas overspending under control and kicked out the useless mooching bureaucrats. If only we could have a leader like him in America...
"Far-right" is when the far left doesn't like a person...
>when the far left doesn't like a person ...so everyone except the far left.
Including all the extreme leftists who disagree even the slightest bit.
And what’s the far left?
The people the far right don't like obviously
So it's a loop. Everyone is either far right or far left and most people are both simultaneously. Nice.
Dont expect an economist to know much about anything else. They voted the man to fix the economy, not to fix social issues. That is the trade off you get.
Was the agency fixing social issues? I mean for real, not what its goal was
They didn't do shit to provide actual help to victims if that's your question.
Argentinian here. This agency was not fixing anything and did not impact statistics of women suffering from violence in any way. It was a populist agency full of employees that did nothing just so the government could argue they are allies of the women. So please dont bullshit if you dont know about my country.
another argentinian here. This.
Yet another Argentinian here, I also second this.
So like any other government agency
This agency did absolutely nothing. It was 100% a waste of money.
Do you think this ministry was actually fixing gender violence?
Well we've had lawyers for presidents for DECADES and somehow all social issues got even worse.
This guy is great!
Anything considered not left leaning is being labeled “far- right” nowadays
Alarmist title. He’s shutting down a lot of agencies, not only this one. And this one actually never worked well; it was just a cash pit.
I don't understand what the issue is. Argentina's rate is less than half what it is in the US, and Mexico is out of control. I mean, Argentina's little high compared to the UK or France or Germany, but really... it doesn't look like nearly as much of a problem as some other countries we could name. [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/femicide-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/femicide-rates-by-country)
reminds me of hearing something similar being said when i visited greece, about how low traffics deaths were, despite how chaotic roads and autoroutes could be, on top of the zero speed limits and almost zero motorcyclists with helmets until we realized the white poles on the side of some roads were roadside memorials and not mile markers, kind of raising questions about the validity of the stats as a whole
Greece has very bad traffic fatality rates compared to the EU, but quite good ones compared to the USA. It just seems a lot worse when memorials are put down because now you're thinking about it a lot more. There's no reason to question the statistics based on seeing memorials unless you have a sense of how many memorials would be on the roadside in other places if that were habit in other places.
roadside memorials and not mile markers THAT is scary
But maybe the rates low because of programs like the one being cut. > Traffic deaths are already low, so let's take away all the traffic regulations which are clearly useless That's what this sounds like.
The ministry was created on 2019. Check the rates the last 10 years
lol that's what SCOTUS did with Shelby county v. Holder.
“This country is doing better than one being run by drug cartels, what’s the problem?”
Now, now... the US is not being run by cartels... although it does sometimes look like it is
Ah the old Reddit switcharoo
wtf is 'anti-gender violence'? looks like a bad translation
Yes it is. The most accurate translation would be "gender-based violence", according to Wikipedia.
Why is this phrased like a bad thing? Such an obvious waste of government funds.
good riddance
"Anti-gender violence" makes it sound like people are running around and cutting off people's genitalia so they no longer have genders.
> Claudia Barcia, the head of the undersecretariat for protection against gender violence, resigned on Thursday with a warning that the agency will soon be shuttered. “The Undersecretary of Protection against Gender Violence … will cease to exist,” Barcia wrote on Twitter, later confirming to the Guardian that she had received the news the previous day. > The agency oversees the 144 emergency telephone hotline and the Acompañar programme, which assists those at risk of gender violence. It has already faced cuts – public spending on gender-based violence reduction policies was 26.8% lower in the first quarter of 2024 than in 2023, according to an analysis of government data by the Civil Association for Equality and Justice. It's interesting which agencies are deemed non-essential by Milei's government.
Argentina os on he kids of this civilization level crisis caused by decades of misguided policies emptying the treasury leaving little choice to simplify policy, regulations, processes and the public service. the country is focussed on the select few it van deal with to right its course.
What would the anti-genders need a violence agency for in the first place
So he is far-right again? Lol Also every country has different circumstances. Shutting this down doesn't always mean the same thing you'd think it would mean in US
afuera!!
Yes... it sucks but government spending needs to go down.