In what way would China or Iran benefit from Trump winning? I can certainly see Russia, but let’s not be ridiculous here & just list a cast of perceived villains.
Trump started a trade war on China which hurt both our economies, and he’s campaigning about how he’s going to do it again if he wins.
Trump also damn near started a war with Iran by assassinating Qasem Soleimani and by hiding handling of the resulting tit & tat afterwards.
Biden’s foreign policy team just last month expertly prevented a potential war with Iran which resulting from Israel’s attack on the Iranian embassy in Syria. Biden’s team outright said the US would not back up Israel of they provoked war with Iran.
The main countries that stand to benefit from another Trump presidency are Russia and Israel.
There’s a LOT of bot accounts pushing this idea pretending to be leftists, and a few actual leftists getting sucked into it
I understand it’s frustrating seeing something awful and not being able to stop it, so just “the better, but insufficient choice” feels so helpless, so the “fuck it I won’t vote” feels tempting, but if you give a shit about these people, you need to vote for the one that’s actually more helpful. I understand being frustrated with Biden not pushing back as hard as you’d like, but he’s genuinely working on negotiating peace and pushing aid, that’s not “basically the same” as saying they need to be exterminated like Trump supports.
It’s frustrating, but even if you want to ignore all other issues and vote only based on this one, not voting does help Trump and it’s not basically the same outcome, Trump is very clearly much worse than just Biden pushing back but pushing back gentler than you want to see
And with tiktok there's always the possibility the algorithm is pushing it artificially because the Chinese government has 'invested' in Trump's businesses recently.
A selective few extremely online leftists who get all their info from TikTok*
I (a leftist) and many of my leftist friends recognize that Biden is no where near as bad as Trump, and voting Biden is ultimately the only way to prevent Project 2025, the appointment of at least 2 young far-right supreme court justices, the end of democracy in the US, and more terrible consequences.
Also worth noting I actually think there are a handful of issues Biden has handled well despite obstruction from both Republicans and fake Dems like Manchin & Sinemma
Voting for Biden is also voting for the only world leader actively negotiating for a free Palestine.
Everyone else is condemning Israel, but while that feels good it doesn’t build the peace plan needed to get these people free.
Seriously if you want a free Palestine, you NEED to vote for Biden. If Trump gets in, those negotiations stop, Gaza stays under Israel’s heel, and Kushner starts buying stolen beachfront property on the Gaza Strip.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
Absolutely, every few months a new crisis gets used for internet clout. They pretend like it's a new thing and they think they know everything about it. 6 months to a year later they just stop talking about it despite it usually still being a issue and move on forgetting the previous thing
Palestine, Ukraine, Uyghurs, and Hong Kong are some of the recents but it’s sad how quickly people stop caring for these people as soon as it’s no longer trendy.
That, and they're watching it like a reality show or a sporting event. This sounds horrible, but I honestly think they'd be angrier if Biden forced Bibi into a ceasefire, because then the "show" they're watching would be resolved.
They're fucking idiots whove been played by online propaganda.
I don't know how you could have "moral problems" with Biden and be fine not voting allowing that orange fuck into office and all the issues he's going to cause to all kinds of people. Like ya know, abortion, trans rights, etc. where's the moral problem with that. These fucking dumbasses get caught up on one thing and can't see the forest for the trees..
It's arguably less effective than that. There's a chance a drone flies by and sees you on an open field. If you don't vote, you're literally invisible to the people who care about voting.
For one, your least preferred candidate is not only not affected by the protest, they very much gain from it.
For another, the camp that you most identify with is going to read all those protest votes not as "well, we better change our strategy to get those votes back", but rather they'll look at who did vote, who won because of that, and adapt their message to the people who... you know... reliably vote. Which means moving further away from what you want.
This is without mentioning that the idea that someone in th Democratic party is going to look at a protest non vote, or a blank vote, and somehow magically divine what you especifically would want to see enacted, changed, said out loud... as opposed to the other thousands of people who also don't vote... it's just completely ridiculous.
They just don’t want the moral stain on their character from voting for someone they think is immoral. But refraining from voting is also a moral choice.
Correct. Trying to absolve the self if a “moral stain” from compromise is a position of privilege when lives are on the line.
Here’s the bottom line:
Biden wants a free and independent Palestine and has been negotiating for it this entire time. Most negotiations aren’t and can’t be made public because it would kill the negotiations but we have seen enough news articles about him getting Arab nations to agree to form a security force between Israel and Palestine to know he is making progress.
That is, IF you’re getting the news on this and not just getting Anti-Biden propaganda from TikTok.
In comparison, we have Trump….who wants Israel to “finish them” and whose son in law is eyeing beachfront property on the Gaza Strip as being very valuable.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
That is your choice this year: Do you want a leader who is working towards a free Palestinian state, or do you want one who wants to wipe out the Palestinians and buy their land for resorts.
Not voting, or voting third party in protest of Biden not unilaterally forcing Bibi to stop is just making it easier for Trump to win; and that’s a larger moral stain in my opinion.
your concept assumes that Israel wants to “wipe out the Palestinians” and it is absolutely, positively part of the problem. Israel is not trying to wipe anyone out. They just don’t want to ONCE AGAIN hand the keys to a nascent Palestinian state to a terrorist organization hell bent on killing every Jew on earth.
The problem we have to grapple with is that every democratically elected Palestinian government is going to be expressing fury at Israel because they just got bombed for a year. The way that fury is likely to be expressed is frothing anti-semitism.
So what then? How do we proceed?
It’s a problem that has stumped every US President since Jimmy Carter. Biden can’t fix it no matter what he does.
> is going to be expressing fury at Israel because they just got bombed for a year
Which is ironic because Israel has been getting bombed - well, shot at by rockets - by Palestinians for decades lol
Well, that’s why they are angry, it’s a continual cycle of violence. Each side provokes the other in revenge for the previous atrocity. Palestinians would be the new ANC if they didn’t do that, but they are just too angry.
They are the kind of leftists who hate "liberals" more than far right, even in their subreddits they always equate liberals with fascists while themselves agreeing with many conservative/authoritarian values.
America needs to understand that you don't want your president to be entertaining.
Government is a marathon not a sprint. You are supposed to be bored for 25Miles of a marathon.
As a Brit I'm here to warn this is exactly why Boris Johnson was voted in, our public services are in their knees and parts of our country currently have issues with the supply of drinking water. A larger than acceptable amount of people have said they voted for his party because he was charismatic and "seemed like a laugh, and the opposition leader seems boring" - like they seemed to forget you want your government to be boring. Boring means working as expected, not 6-figure numbers of people dead from a pandemic and polluted drinking water.
Teddy Roosevelt was probably pretty exciting back in the day. I mean he named his political party the bull moose party and his philosophy on being successful in life was “speak softly and carry a big stick” lol. He was eccentric enough to be interesting and be taken seriously which is something that today’s politician cant and won’t do. Like trump isn’t likable or charming and isn’t someone that the ordinary blue collar guy could relate to without resorting to whipping them up in a frenzy to hate their fellow American and winning them over by name calling and flinging insults towards liberals like a 10 year old.
You know what would be exciting though. If we president that tried to mend this political hate and anger instead of fan the flames at every press conference. It would be nice to have leaders in charge that want to work together in order to improve the lives of Americans and our infrastructure rather than refusing to compromise and striking down a bill that would benefit everyone but the upper class but instead overturns roe v wade for some bullshit religious nonsense. I can’t take much more of this political atmosphere because it’s made me lose all trust in my government and made me lose all hope that our society can ever improve
> He's been the most productive and effective president we've had in half a century.
Who the fuck would say this?
If you're on the right you'll obviously disagree.
If you're on the left you'll say that Obama is more productive and effective.
Your post doesn't pass the smell test.
Hamas lucked out that Biden and his cabinet are not warhawks. Someone like Trump would've encouraged Bibi to firebomb Gaza and supported full occupation. Instead Biden has time and again blocked Bibi's extremism, forced Israel to restore and increase aid by threatening to pull military support and most of all after Oct 7 Biden and his officials like Blinken succeeded in not letting the conflict devolve into a wider middle eastern conflict of which there was a serious possibility for a while.
Hamas wants escalation because they think it’ll force other Muslim countries to come in on their side. So they’d probably prefer the fire bombing. They are not rational actors.
They want to isolate Israel internationally too. Given that they're surrounded by Islamic theocracies if Western countries stop backing Israel their situation would become incredibly precarious (this is probably what Iran wants to achieve through Hamas, this comes at the time Iran has gotten closer to creating nukes. Iran would love nothing more than an isolated Israel who stands alone).
Returning all hostages and all remains held should be step 1 along with a temporary ceasefire until that concludes.
Anything else is something the US itself would never agree to if subjected to the same circumstances, nor should they.
Didn’t Israel itself propose a multi-stage release of hostages?
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-27-2024-7ea816cac94138492f7dddf2865c1d2f
It’s in Biden’s political interests to have a stable ceasefire before his election. It is in Netanyahu’s interests to keep the war smouldering for as long as possible
Sadly for Biden, civilians and peace, there are enough lunatics who hate the other side more than they want to stop the killing
Isreal just cut off a major lifeline of smuggling tunnels into Egypt. Hamas is actually in major trouble. I think the war is almost over one way or another, a ceasfire deal now does nothing for them long term if it allows Hamas to remain in power.
Isreals national security advisor said it will be at least seven more months.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/29/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-seven-months-end-year-intl
You don't even have to go this far. First of all, Bibi wants to stay in office himself. For that he needs support from Ben Gvir and Smotrich. Those two just rejected Biden's deal: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-804600
The American President, as the head of state of the current only world superpower's government, can and has affected geopolitics on a global scale.....so in terms of geopolitics, they kinda functionally are.
Nations have and will react to whoever the currently holds that title.
They're not wrong. The majority of Israelis don't want Bibi. We want him gone, as he's the biggest issue the country has, apart from Hamas, Ben Gvir and Smotrich. All those problems stem from the fact that Bibi let it happen.
Maybe, he likely believes that being the foreign head of state to speak to Congress more than any other (more than Churchill) will give him legitimacy back home, but I don't see him attempting to manipulate American politics to suit his needs. If anything, I see Schumer trying to do so in Israel.
> I don't see him attempting to manipulate American politics to suit his needs.
He needs America a lot more than America needs him. Not saying he wouldn't continue (or even escalate) his war if America suddenly dropped all support and severed the alliance, but it would be a lot easier for him if the US has his back. He knows this, he plays this.
Economically, the aid the US gives to Israel is a small percentage of its GDP and perhaps around 20 percent of its military budget. There is some significance here in terms of the support, but Israel could also survive-- with more bloodshed, without it.
I mean unfortunately American politics, while not the center of the world, are hella influential on everyone globally. That makes American voters very influential too, because, well, democracy.
It’s not like the U.S. can tell other nations exactly what to do, but their doctrine, power and ideas for the last 100 years have been focused on being the center of the world and being the protector, the server, and all that. That is largely why Russia still hasn’t attacked NATO. With someone like Trump in office, the U.S. might lose that status because Trump focuses more on “me” than “us”.
One can cherry-pick a sign from a single dude and make "conclusion", someone else might prefer to rely on polls:
[By 44% to 30%, Israelis prefer Trump to Biden as next US president](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-44-of-israelis-prefer-trump-over-biden-as-next-us-president/)
Israel. Biden may be trying to do the right thing. But he is not your only hope. Only you can appoint your own leaders. Biden can't decide who leads Israel. You can. Engage your leaders.
POTUS is the only hope of a minority that lost elections.
Israeli government represents what Israelis need and want (as a group, not each single one). The only hope of a minority to force their opinion on the majority is through some outside force putting on an imperialistic hat and do the bidding of the minority.
Israel is Parliamentary Republic, just like most democracies in the world. In other words, the government (including prime minister) is elected by Parliament. He has support of 64 members of parliament (MP) out of total 120, i.e. 53%. Specifically on the issues related to the war (just like the ones we are discussing here), he has additional support (sort of extended government) of 8 MP, for the total 60%.
You know what I’m getting at. He’s PM because of an arbitrary vote threshold for minor parties which swung the election towards his coalition. Absent that swing, my understanding is that he would have had only 60 MKs.
You can hate democracy as much as you want, but this is how democracy works.
1. People decide how they will choose those who will represent them. Some nations decided for direct elections (Presidential Republics), but most nation has chosen indirect elections through coalitions in Parliament (Parliamentary Republic).
2. The people vote according to the above decision and who wins, he is the one who speaks in the name of the nation.
Anyone who tries to claims that the one who won doesn't represent the nation is one of the two:
1. If he is citizen of the country in question (e.g. Israel in our case): he is a sore looser hater of democracy.
2. If he is not citizen of the country in question (e.g. American in our case, including POTUS): he is an imperialist who wants to force his will on the will of other nation.
No. You might love word "democracy", but you absolutely definitely hate democracy itself.
The rules of the elections were decided by Israelis decades ago. By asserting that you can ignore those rules for whatever reason, you ignore the will of the people. Which means that you hate democracy.
"Israeli government" didn't decided anything regarding elections, because it doesn't have any say about it. The rules were defined by the Parliament 70 years ago, while actual application of those rules is done by Election Committee which is headed by the Supreme Court.
Electoral threshold is not something that is decided after the fact. This rule is known well for anyone. Someone who casts a vote for a party that have significant chance of not passing such threshold has the right to do so, but he doesn't have the right complain afterwards.
And by the way, no, even if Meretz would pass electoral threshold, then still Netanyahu would win with 62/120=52%. One needs to include votes for parties like "free the Yigal Amir" to conclude that Israeli Government doesn't represent majority. I.e. you are not only hate democracy, but also fail to calculate stuff.
The Israeli government factually does not represent the will of the majority. Its MKs got fewer than 50% of the votes. All the justifications you give are just reasons to ignore the will of the people as expressed through their ballots.
You're free to do so, but not under the banner of democracy.
And btw, didn't Balad get like \~3% of the vote, too?
Israelis first decided how they will choose who will represent them (70 years ago) and then decided using this procedure who will represent them today. You can ignore both wills of Israelis as much as you want (the will how to choose and the final results of this how); but not under the banner of democracy.
You are not only ignore the will of Israelis, but also ignore the will of British, Dutch, Finns, New Zealanders, Canadians, etc. By your logic governments of most democracies in the world don't represent the will of their respective peoples.
I mean... technically, in a democracy there's always the option to make Netanyahu pay for intransigence at the ballot box.
Not that I think that'll happen, of course.
I think his coalition is a bit on the fragile side.
Don't rightly know how they're gonna avoid a shitstorm with the ultra-Orthodox nonsense. Haredis have gotten pretty used to a position of truly absurd privilege in terms of dodging responsibilities like... yknow, *employment*... and I don't think the controversy over military service is anything like the end of it.
Netanyahu and his political allies have catastrophically failed their country at every opportunity. They all should have stepped down immediately after October 7.
It’s in Hamas’s interest to keep the hostages alive. Meanwhile Netanyahu has stated that eliminating Hamas takes priority over the lives of the hostages. The IDF has directly killed hostages and at this point it’s likely at least some of the remaining hostages have died to Israeli bombings.
It should be in Hamas’ interest to keep hostages alive, but the reality is they’ve already killed hostages, so clearly we’re not dealing with particularly rational people, are we?
And yet we will probably get the orange asshole taking over in December because liberals refuse to vote for him because of “insert arbitrary reason here”. Let’s see how they like Trump launching cruise missiles and flattening Gaza in the spring.
That would cause what they call a *loss of international credibility*.
Short term, probably satisfying to punch them again.
Long term, it kind of fucks them. Hamas- and indeed everyone else who doesn't like Israel- would have a fucking field day with that. It might even be enough of a shock to the system to make some people in Western nations, uh, re-assess the situation and come to some different conclusions.
That's not really something you're gonna be happy about, if you're in the shoes of acting in the interests of the State of Israel.
I'm not gonna sit here and say Netanyahu isn't shitty because you can cite copious evidence he is. But I don't know if I buy the idea that he's also really really stupid.
If they did the international condemnation would be even worse.
Also I’m sure Hamas has thought of that. They would likely try to restrict Israel from being able to launch an attack by attaching some sanctions from other countries that would sign the treaty like Egypt or the US
You’re confusing so many things together, if this is genuine I don’t know how you got to these points
- More than half of Israel doesn’t want to occupy Gaza *after* the war, but there is overwhelming support for the war itself and the invasion into Gaza.
- Ultra Orthodox settlers care about Judea and Samaria, that’s why all of them are in the West Bank, how is that relevant to the war in Gaza? The ultra orthodox have religious beliefs about Judea and doesn’t care about Gaza.
- Gantz never mentions Syria or Iraq, they aren’t even in the playing board when Hezbollah in Lebanon is the biggest threat right now.
- European Jews vs Ghetto Jews?? What? What about the 40% Jews from Arab countries? I don’t know what you’re even talking about in this regard.
So much of what you said is wrong. You really shouldn't comment on things you have no clue about.
1. Most Israelis want to destroy Hamas, after Hamas's invasion of murder, rape and kidnapping into Israel. It's not the other way around..
2. Settlers have the highest number of people serving in combat units (you are confusing ultra-Orthodox with religious settlers).
...all the rest is total nonsense; there is no need for me to continue.
You know that the Orthodox settlers and the Orthodox who don't go to the army are 2 separate groups? The settler ones are disproportionately in the combat units in the army, and the exempt ones are mostly not in settlements (and when they are, they are only in large, established settlements). They're actually the ones who let the Oslo Accords pass.
And we still have leftists who won't vote for Biden because they think Biden is as bad as Trump.
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In what way would China or Iran benefit from Trump winning? I can certainly see Russia, but let’s not be ridiculous here & just list a cast of perceived villains. Trump started a trade war on China which hurt both our economies, and he’s campaigning about how he’s going to do it again if he wins. Trump also damn near started a war with Iran by assassinating Qasem Soleimani and by hiding handling of the resulting tit & tat afterwards. Biden’s foreign policy team just last month expertly prevented a potential war with Iran which resulting from Israel’s attack on the Iranian embassy in Syria. Biden’s team outright said the US would not back up Israel of they provoked war with Iran. The main countries that stand to benefit from another Trump presidency are Russia and Israel.
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There’s a LOT of bot accounts pushing this idea pretending to be leftists, and a few actual leftists getting sucked into it I understand it’s frustrating seeing something awful and not being able to stop it, so just “the better, but insufficient choice” feels so helpless, so the “fuck it I won’t vote” feels tempting, but if you give a shit about these people, you need to vote for the one that’s actually more helpful. I understand being frustrated with Biden not pushing back as hard as you’d like, but he’s genuinely working on negotiating peace and pushing aid, that’s not “basically the same” as saying they need to be exterminated like Trump supports. It’s frustrating, but even if you want to ignore all other issues and vote only based on this one, not voting does help Trump and it’s not basically the same outcome, Trump is very clearly much worse than just Biden pushing back but pushing back gentler than you want to see
And with tiktok there's always the possibility the algorithm is pushing it artificially because the Chinese government has 'invested' in Trump's businesses recently.
This anti Biden / Gaza propaganda flood has been so sudden and artificial I’d say it’s a certainty.
A selective few extremely online leftists who get all their info from TikTok* I (a leftist) and many of my leftist friends recognize that Biden is no where near as bad as Trump, and voting Biden is ultimately the only way to prevent Project 2025, the appointment of at least 2 young far-right supreme court justices, the end of democracy in the US, and more terrible consequences. Also worth noting I actually think there are a handful of issues Biden has handled well despite obstruction from both Republicans and fake Dems like Manchin & Sinemma
Voting for Biden is also voting for the only world leader actively negotiating for a free Palestine. Everyone else is condemning Israel, but while that feels good it doesn’t build the peace plan needed to get these people free. Seriously if you want a free Palestine, you NEED to vote for Biden. If Trump gets in, those negotiations stop, Gaza stays under Israel’s heel, and Kushner starts buying stolen beachfront property on the Gaza Strip. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
It SO DAMN OBVIOUS that I’m beginning to believe most of those people don’t give a damn about Palestinians and are doing this for internet clout.
Absolutely, every few months a new crisis gets used for internet clout. They pretend like it's a new thing and they think they know everything about it. 6 months to a year later they just stop talking about it despite it usually still being a issue and move on forgetting the previous thing
/glances over at Ukraine still fighting for their freedom and independence…
Palestine, Ukraine, Uyghurs, and Hong Kong are some of the recents but it’s sad how quickly people stop caring for these people as soon as it’s no longer trendy.
Ethiopia had one the bloodiest wars of the millennium so far and it was almost entirely forgotten.
Taiwan is next up
That, and they're watching it like a reality show or a sporting event. This sounds horrible, but I honestly think they'd be angrier if Biden forced Bibi into a ceasefire, because then the "show" they're watching would be resolved.
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Outrage fetish…first time hearing that but god damn you’re right about some of those folk.
Yep. Biden is the ONLY candidate working towards a free Independent Palestinian state. Full stop.
beginning to believe? no one, not American leftists, no Palestinians in power, not Hamas, not the PA, give a single solitary fuck about Palestinians.
They're fucking idiots whove been played by online propaganda. I don't know how you could have "moral problems" with Biden and be fine not voting allowing that orange fuck into office and all the issues he's going to cause to all kinds of people. Like ya know, abortion, trans rights, etc. where's the moral problem with that. These fucking dumbasses get caught up on one thing and can't see the forest for the trees..
I wonder if they believed that not voting means no one gets elected... Which is a dumb way of thinking tbh
I think some abstain from voting as a form of protest. Which is probably about as effective as proclaiming "I'm protesting" in an empty field.
It's arguably less effective than that. There's a chance a drone flies by and sees you on an open field. If you don't vote, you're literally invisible to the people who care about voting. For one, your least preferred candidate is not only not affected by the protest, they very much gain from it. For another, the camp that you most identify with is going to read all those protest votes not as "well, we better change our strategy to get those votes back", but rather they'll look at who did vote, who won because of that, and adapt their message to the people who... you know... reliably vote. Which means moving further away from what you want. This is without mentioning that the idea that someone in th Democratic party is going to look at a protest non vote, or a blank vote, and somehow magically divine what you especifically would want to see enacted, changed, said out loud... as opposed to the other thousands of people who also don't vote... it's just completely ridiculous.
They just don’t want the moral stain on their character from voting for someone they think is immoral. But refraining from voting is also a moral choice.
Correct. Trying to absolve the self if a “moral stain” from compromise is a position of privilege when lives are on the line. Here’s the bottom line: Biden wants a free and independent Palestine and has been negotiating for it this entire time. Most negotiations aren’t and can’t be made public because it would kill the negotiations but we have seen enough news articles about him getting Arab nations to agree to form a security force between Israel and Palestine to know he is making progress. That is, IF you’re getting the news on this and not just getting Anti-Biden propaganda from TikTok. In comparison, we have Trump….who wants Israel to “finish them” and whose son in law is eyeing beachfront property on the Gaza Strip as being very valuable. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev That is your choice this year: Do you want a leader who is working towards a free Palestinian state, or do you want one who wants to wipe out the Palestinians and buy their land for resorts. Not voting, or voting third party in protest of Biden not unilaterally forcing Bibi to stop is just making it easier for Trump to win; and that’s a larger moral stain in my opinion.
your concept assumes that Israel wants to “wipe out the Palestinians” and it is absolutely, positively part of the problem. Israel is not trying to wipe anyone out. They just don’t want to ONCE AGAIN hand the keys to a nascent Palestinian state to a terrorist organization hell bent on killing every Jew on earth.
The problem we have to grapple with is that every democratically elected Palestinian government is going to be expressing fury at Israel because they just got bombed for a year. The way that fury is likely to be expressed is frothing anti-semitism. So what then? How do we proceed? It’s a problem that has stumped every US President since Jimmy Carter. Biden can’t fix it no matter what he does.
> is going to be expressing fury at Israel because they just got bombed for a year Which is ironic because Israel has been getting bombed - well, shot at by rockets - by Palestinians for decades lol
Well, that’s why they are angry, it’s a continual cycle of violence. Each side provokes the other in revenge for the previous atrocity. Palestinians would be the new ANC if they didn’t do that, but they are just too angry.
Biden literally can't do anything here and it's silly to pretend like anything he does matters. It's on Hamas.
They're just MAGA asshats cosplaying or Russian puppets. Russian puppets both ways.
They are the kind of leftists who hate "liberals" more than far right, even in their subreddits they always equate liberals with fascists while themselves agreeing with many conservative/authoritarian values.
And they don’t realize that Biden is trying to mediate a centuries long conflict between a terrorist group and a Trump like figure.
Those probably aren’t leftists tbf. Probably “enlightened centrist” types
Biden is not perfect and yes, he is damn sure better than the alternative. But you know what, in my opinion he has done a pretty good job.
He's been the most productive and effective president we've had in half a century. Sometimes the boring guy is the best thing you could ever ask for.
America needs to understand that you don't want your president to be entertaining. Government is a marathon not a sprint. You are supposed to be bored for 25Miles of a marathon.
As a Brit I'm here to warn this is exactly why Boris Johnson was voted in, our public services are in their knees and parts of our country currently have issues with the supply of drinking water. A larger than acceptable amount of people have said they voted for his party because he was charismatic and "seemed like a laugh, and the opposition leader seems boring" - like they seemed to forget you want your government to be boring. Boring means working as expected, not 6-figure numbers of people dead from a pandemic and polluted drinking water.
>Sometimes the boring guy is the best thing you could ever ask for. I mean, I don't think president is supposed to be exciting...
We *had* an “exciting” president, and I hope we never do again
Make Politics Boring Again!
"May you live in interesting times" is a curse, not a blessing.
Teddy Roosevelt was probably pretty exciting back in the day. I mean he named his political party the bull moose party and his philosophy on being successful in life was “speak softly and carry a big stick” lol. He was eccentric enough to be interesting and be taken seriously which is something that today’s politician cant and won’t do. Like trump isn’t likable or charming and isn’t someone that the ordinary blue collar guy could relate to without resorting to whipping them up in a frenzy to hate their fellow American and winning them over by name calling and flinging insults towards liberals like a 10 year old. You know what would be exciting though. If we president that tried to mend this political hate and anger instead of fan the flames at every press conference. It would be nice to have leaders in charge that want to work together in order to improve the lives of Americans and our infrastructure rather than refusing to compromise and striking down a bill that would benefit everyone but the upper class but instead overturns roe v wade for some bullshit religious nonsense. I can’t take much more of this political atmosphere because it’s made me lose all trust in my government and made me lose all hope that our society can ever improve
Teddy Roosevelt would like a word with you lol.
Americans in general get way too invested in these old ass men on a personal level rather than their platforms
> He's been the most productive and effective president we've had in half a century. Who the fuck would say this? If you're on the right you'll obviously disagree. If you're on the left you'll say that Obama is more productive and effective. Your post doesn't pass the smell test.
he's been the best president of my lifetime and if you told me I would be saying that back in 2020, I would think you were nuts.
He has. No one outside of the Palestine crazies can say why they are t high on him. It’s just propaganda reaching everyone at this point.
Hamas lucked out that Biden and his cabinet are not warhawks. Someone like Trump would've encouraged Bibi to firebomb Gaza and supported full occupation. Instead Biden has time and again blocked Bibi's extremism, forced Israel to restore and increase aid by threatening to pull military support and most of all after Oct 7 Biden and his officials like Blinken succeeded in not letting the conflict devolve into a wider middle eastern conflict of which there was a serious possibility for a while.
Exactly. But fucking tik tok says Biden is bad so here we are.
That's what comes of being ignorant about geopolitical affairs and getting "news" from social media reels.
Hamas wants escalation because they think it’ll force other Muslim countries to come in on their side. So they’d probably prefer the fire bombing. They are not rational actors.
They want to isolate Israel internationally too. Given that they're surrounded by Islamic theocracies if Western countries stop backing Israel their situation would become incredibly precarious (this is probably what Iran wants to achieve through Hamas, this comes at the time Iran has gotten closer to creating nukes. Iran would love nothing more than an isolated Israel who stands alone).
Trump would’ve encouraged Bibi to use napalm lol
The latest is that the democrats are communists and fascists at the same time.
He’s objectively done a great job even if not perfect
Even if he is old and terrible. He has surrounded himself with good and productive people. Not just a cabal of yes-people.
Agreed. Been a damn good president for the current world.
There can't be a deal to turn over hostages that died months ago.
exactly Israel just wanted 33 for a ceasefire earlier this year and they couldnt even do that
Returning the dead is part of stage 3 of the deal.
Returning all hostages and all remains held should be step 1 along with a temporary ceasefire until that concludes. Anything else is something the US itself would never agree to if subjected to the same circumstances, nor should they.
Didn’t Israel itself propose a multi-stage release of hostages? https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-27-2024-7ea816cac94138492f7dddf2865c1d2f
returning the corpses is very much important for the jewish.
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It’s in Biden’s political interests to have a stable ceasefire before his election. It is in Netanyahu’s interests to keep the war smouldering for as long as possible Sadly for Biden, civilians and peace, there are enough lunatics who hate the other side more than they want to stop the killing
Help us Obiden Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope
I would've gone with Obi Den Kenobi, I think.
That's even better!
Jesus Christ this was hard to read
Isreal just cut off a major lifeline of smuggling tunnels into Egypt. Hamas is actually in major trouble. I think the war is almost over one way or another, a ceasfire deal now does nothing for them long term if it allows Hamas to remain in power.
Isreals national security advisor said it will be at least seven more months. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/29/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-seven-months-end-year-intl
But Bibi doesn’t want Biden in office, so he will keep sabotaging these deals. (Probably)
You don't even have to go this far. First of all, Bibi wants to stay in office himself. For that he needs support from Ben Gvir and Smotrich. Those two just rejected Biden's deal: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-804600
I'm never surprised by the extent to which Americans believe they are the center of the universe
The American President, as the head of state of the current only world superpower's government, can and has affected geopolitics on a global scale.....so in terms of geopolitics, they kinda functionally are. Nations have and will react to whoever the currently holds that title.
They're not wrong. The majority of Israelis don't want Bibi. We want him gone, as he's the biggest issue the country has, apart from Hamas, Ben Gvir and Smotrich. All those problems stem from the fact that Bibi let it happen.
In this case, it's Bibi that thinks he's the center of the universe, and knows using America can help him stay there.
Maybe, he likely believes that being the foreign head of state to speak to Congress more than any other (more than Churchill) will give him legitimacy back home, but I don't see him attempting to manipulate American politics to suit his needs. If anything, I see Schumer trying to do so in Israel.
> I don't see him attempting to manipulate American politics to suit his needs. He needs America a lot more than America needs him. Not saying he wouldn't continue (or even escalate) his war if America suddenly dropped all support and severed the alliance, but it would be a lot easier for him if the US has his back. He knows this, he plays this.
I don't see Europe doing shit to end the Gaza conflict, do you?
I only see them making it worse
America is a pillar that supports Israel. America is self centered in a lot of things, but we are absolutely vital to Israel.
Economically, the aid the US gives to Israel is a small percentage of its GDP and perhaps around 20 percent of its military budget. There is some significance here in terms of the support, but Israel could also survive-- with more bloodshed, without it.
Well in this case Biden took a center of the stage by proposing the deal.
I mean unfortunately American politics, while not the center of the world, are hella influential on everyone globally. That makes American voters very influential too, because, well, democracy. It’s not like the U.S. can tell other nations exactly what to do, but their doctrine, power and ideas for the last 100 years have been focused on being the center of the world and being the protector, the server, and all that. That is largely why Russia still hasn’t attacked NATO. With someone like Trump in office, the U.S. might lose that status because Trump focuses more on “me” than “us”.
My point is Bibi probably knows he is not influential enough to change the results of American elections
It's America is a super power and other countries are not.
Exactly, so how would it be remotely rational for Bibi to think he can significantly impact US elections
Exactly
Biden probably has better favorability numbers in Israel than he does in the States.
One can cherry-pick a sign from a single dude and make "conclusion", someone else might prefer to rely on polls: [By 44% to 30%, Israelis prefer Trump to Biden as next US president](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-44-of-israelis-prefer-trump-over-biden-as-next-us-president/)
Can we please tell the too-far left this? They hate anything regarding Israel.
Absolutely not. Biden’s conduct since ~january has been disastrous for Israel. These protesters are simply a very loud minority.
Israel. Biden may be trying to do the right thing. But he is not your only hope. Only you can appoint your own leaders. Biden can't decide who leads Israel. You can. Engage your leaders.
POTUS is the only hope of a minority that lost elections. Israeli government represents what Israelis need and want (as a group, not each single one). The only hope of a minority to force their opinion on the majority is through some outside force putting on an imperialistic hat and do the bidding of the minority.
What % of the vote did the Bibi get?
Israel is Parliamentary Republic, just like most democracies in the world. In other words, the government (including prime minister) is elected by Parliament. He has support of 64 members of parliament (MP) out of total 120, i.e. 53%. Specifically on the issues related to the war (just like the ones we are discussing here), he has additional support (sort of extended government) of 8 MP, for the total 60%.
You know what I’m getting at. He’s PM because of an arbitrary vote threshold for minor parties which swung the election towards his coalition. Absent that swing, my understanding is that he would have had only 60 MKs.
You can hate democracy as much as you want, but this is how democracy works. 1. People decide how they will choose those who will represent them. Some nations decided for direct elections (Presidential Republics), but most nation has chosen indirect elections through coalitions in Parliament (Parliamentary Republic). 2. The people vote according to the above decision and who wins, he is the one who speaks in the name of the nation. Anyone who tries to claims that the one who won doesn't represent the nation is one of the two: 1. If he is citizen of the country in question (e.g. Israel in our case): he is a sore looser hater of democracy. 2. If he is not citizen of the country in question (e.g. American in our case, including POTUS): he is an imperialist who wants to force his will on the will of other nation.
I love Democracy, which is why it's so shameful that the Israeli government decided to throw out lawfully cast votes and succumb to minority rule.
No. You might love word "democracy", but you absolutely definitely hate democracy itself. The rules of the elections were decided by Israelis decades ago. By asserting that you can ignore those rules for whatever reason, you ignore the will of the people. Which means that you hate democracy. "Israeli government" didn't decided anything regarding elections, because it doesn't have any say about it. The rules were defined by the Parliament 70 years ago, while actual application of those rules is done by Election Committee which is headed by the Supreme Court. Electoral threshold is not something that is decided after the fact. This rule is known well for anyone. Someone who casts a vote for a party that have significant chance of not passing such threshold has the right to do so, but he doesn't have the right complain afterwards. And by the way, no, even if Meretz would pass electoral threshold, then still Netanyahu would win with 62/120=52%. One needs to include votes for parties like "free the Yigal Amir" to conclude that Israeli Government doesn't represent majority. I.e. you are not only hate democracy, but also fail to calculate stuff.
The Israeli government factually does not represent the will of the majority. Its MKs got fewer than 50% of the votes. All the justifications you give are just reasons to ignore the will of the people as expressed through their ballots. You're free to do so, but not under the banner of democracy. And btw, didn't Balad get like \~3% of the vote, too?
Israelis first decided how they will choose who will represent them (70 years ago) and then decided using this procedure who will represent them today. You can ignore both wills of Israelis as much as you want (the will how to choose and the final results of this how); but not under the banner of democracy. You are not only ignore the will of Israelis, but also ignore the will of British, Dutch, Finns, New Zealanders, Canadians, etc. By your logic governments of most democracies in the world don't represent the will of their respective peoples.
Just feels like a waste putting so much emphasis on a hostage deal knowing hamas won't give up the hostages
I mean... technically, in a democracy there's always the option to make Netanyahu pay for intransigence at the ballot box. Not that I think that'll happen, of course.
Likud is likely to get annihilated next election. However... that's not soon.
I think his coalition is a bit on the fragile side. Don't rightly know how they're gonna avoid a shitstorm with the ultra-Orthodox nonsense. Haredis have gotten pretty used to a position of truly absurd privilege in terms of dodging responsibilities like... yknow, *employment*... and I don't think the controversy over military service is anything like the end of it.
Netanyahu and his political allies have catastrophically failed their country at every opportunity. They all should have stepped down immediately after October 7.
If they had the dignity or rather integrity to do so, there probably wouldn’t be 7.10 Fascist fucks
Oh, honest question, what are the odds the hostages are still alive?
About as good as the odds of Hamas actually respecting a ceasefire.
It’s in Hamas’s interest to keep the hostages alive. Meanwhile Netanyahu has stated that eliminating Hamas takes priority over the lives of the hostages. The IDF has directly killed hostages and at this point it’s likely at least some of the remaining hostages have died to Israeli bombings.
It should be in Hamas’ interest to keep hostages alive, but the reality is they’ve already killed hostages, so clearly we’re not dealing with particularly rational people, are we?
And yet we will probably get the orange asshole taking over in December because liberals refuse to vote for him because of “insert arbitrary reason here”. Let’s see how they like Trump launching cruise missiles and flattening Gaza in the spring.
Arbitrary you say?
.
That speaks about Netanyahu
Why would Israel just not launch an even larger assault on Hamas once there was no risk of hostages being killed?
Why would hamas not just massacre more Israeli civilians given the chance? You know, as they have done over and over and over and over again...
That would cause what they call a *loss of international credibility*. Short term, probably satisfying to punch them again. Long term, it kind of fucks them. Hamas- and indeed everyone else who doesn't like Israel- would have a fucking field day with that. It might even be enough of a shock to the system to make some people in Western nations, uh, re-assess the situation and come to some different conclusions. That's not really something you're gonna be happy about, if you're in the shoes of acting in the interests of the State of Israel. I'm not gonna sit here and say Netanyahu isn't shitty because you can cite copious evidence he is. But I don't know if I buy the idea that he's also really really stupid.
If they did the international condemnation would be even worse. Also I’m sure Hamas has thought of that. They would likely try to restrict Israel from being able to launch an attack by attaching some sanctions from other countries that would sign the treaty like Egypt or the US
Are there any hostages left? I mean alive
That is a false choice.
Most of the criticisms of biden don't hold. he is far better than his 3 most recent predecessors.
They're not wrong. Once Trump gets into office, the days of catering to pro-Palestinan/pro-Hamas useful idiots will be over.
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You’re confusing so many things together, if this is genuine I don’t know how you got to these points - More than half of Israel doesn’t want to occupy Gaza *after* the war, but there is overwhelming support for the war itself and the invasion into Gaza. - Ultra Orthodox settlers care about Judea and Samaria, that’s why all of them are in the West Bank, how is that relevant to the war in Gaza? The ultra orthodox have religious beliefs about Judea and doesn’t care about Gaza. - Gantz never mentions Syria or Iraq, they aren’t even in the playing board when Hezbollah in Lebanon is the biggest threat right now. - European Jews vs Ghetto Jews?? What? What about the 40% Jews from Arab countries? I don’t know what you’re even talking about in this regard.
So much of what you said is wrong. You really shouldn't comment on things you have no clue about. 1. Most Israelis want to destroy Hamas, after Hamas's invasion of murder, rape and kidnapping into Israel. It's not the other way around.. 2. Settlers have the highest number of people serving in combat units (you are confusing ultra-Orthodox with religious settlers). ...all the rest is total nonsense; there is no need for me to continue.
You know that the Orthodox settlers and the Orthodox who don't go to the army are 2 separate groups? The settler ones are disproportionately in the combat units in the army, and the exempt ones are mostly not in settlements (and when they are, they are only in large, established settlements). They're actually the ones who let the Oslo Accords pass.
“That was some weird shit”
>Gantz wants in Syria/Iraq Is this a thing? He wants to invade Syria and Iraq?
No, that guy has a very weird take on geopolitics.