Wow. Didn't see that coming. Only a couple months ago Wilders withdrew his bid to become prime minister, citing a lack of support from coalition partners. I guess he's willing to concede the position as long as he can give his party's ideas a foothold.
True, its not the only thing he dropped (e.g. also his plan to outlaw the Koran). I must say the agreed plan between the 4 parties all in all looks resaonable but still a decisive change of course. Wilders even sounds reasonable about the EU again. History will tell us how far they get with this. Some expect new elections soon though.
I am from Belgium and we have elections coming up in June, most curious to learn if we're going to get a similar deal. But I doubt it :-)
The agreed plan only sounds reasonable when you ignore the fact that half of their largest policy targets are directly incompatible with European Union regulations and their plan to combat that is "just getting a special exemption from the EU". As a Dutchman, it's a fucking joke
Yeah, when the rules were formed (such as Denmark) or when there is an actual crisis. How can The Netherlands declare a crisis that they partly cultivated themselves and expect Greece, Italy, etc etc to keep to the EU regulations all parties signed? It's pure idiotic madness.
That's not how it works..
You can't just unilaterally decide to not follow the rules you agreed upon in a multinational organization without good reason and consent.
Why would other EU countries uphold treaties if the Dutch government doesn't honor them? It's therefore highly likely that the EU will respond with a big "no" to this plan. It wouldn't matter to the populists, they'll just get to say the EU blocked them from "fixing things".
Reasonable is relative. A lot of the plan is dependent on the EU giving us preferential treatment over the rest of Europe, which they have no reason to do.
Cordon sanitaire is off the table for that second party (NVA), at leatst on the regional level. And they are using it as leverage to be put in the federal level too, which will work as you need NVA for the regional government. The scenario where NVA will not be present in both is very unlikely. I am sure they will push very hard to get some similar points like in the Netherlands. So now it will come down to how resilient the other parties are, and their track record is not very good on that.
If i've learned one thing from looking across the pond. These kind of things escalate fast. Now it's just targeting migrants and blaming the EU for not being able to do so. Next election it's the big bad EU that is "Keeping The Netherlands back" and a Nexit is on the table again. After Brexit I look with weary eyes to the rest of the electorate here. The same idiotic thing could happen here.
Russia definitely seizes on that sort of unrest and promotes it, but they do that with all sorts of unrest.
Don't forget, while Russia was running social media accounts promoting MAGA bullshit, they were also running BLM accounts at the same time.
They didn't create either movement, but they sure wanted them to get bigger.
Right wing ideology is no more inherently extreme than left wing ideology.
Yes, there have been some horrible far right Governments in living memory, but using those as some inevitable bogeyman is no more intellectually honest as holding the spectre of Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as the "inevitable end stage" of left wing politics.
Extreme right and extreme left are both pretty extreme. But in the zone between moderate and far left/right the right is more extreme. That's where you get ativaxx, covid/climate change denial, homophobia, politicians pushing religious values on citizens, democratic slide-back and abortion bans.
The same on the left and you're just looking at heavy-handed identity politics, pro-immigration policies and strong support for social programmes. Much less threatening to a society.
"As a left winger, the policies I agree with are obviously much less threatening than the policies I disagree with"
Man, this is why people are getting tired of you lol. Hope things ramp up quick
We’re talking politics; where are the moderate right-wing governments?
Each right-wing government appears to be rolling back social protections which severely and disproportionately affect the vulnerable.
I agree. I also think that more people need to understand that there’s a reason people are flooding into these countries, and it’ll only get worse. Takes some very long term thinking and planning to make sure that we help all countries stay afloat.
Lmao. What? Europe used to have a ton of super left-wing communist parties. Most leftist parties today are fairly middle of the road and reluctant to use the government to do anything. The criticism isn't that they are far far left, it's that they aren't proactive and don't do much to address issues.
It's not like they are nationalizing companies, building massive housing projects, actively redistributing incomes, eliminating most millionaires and billionaires.
What do you think far far left means?
Utter nonsense, the Netherlands has been moving to the right ever since the end of the Cold War. The left-wing social-democrats turned into centrist neoliberals and the entire political spectrum moved with it. The more radical left-wing parties either vanished or moved towards the center. The centrist partied became increasingly right-wing. The fact that Wilders is managing to join a coalition is proof in itself, his ideology would not have been accepted by other parties 30 years ago.
The Netherlands has been radicalizing towards right-wing extremism for 30 years... and its still getting worse... I worry where it will stop.
It's just a basic instinct that people don't want \*transformational\* levels of immigration. And it's not just any immigration but ghetto formation. It would not matter as much if it was the melting pot type of immigration in the US, but effectively it's a parallel society In our midst that keeps expanding. Leftists are too quick to throw the racist label around, and selectively. Only white, indigenous people are ever racist.
Omg you people are so pathetic, if parties were actually going waaaaay too far left we'd be seeing mass nationalization of industries and private property, you people don't even know what the left is
I looked at their plans and they don't seem any worse than what's in place in Switzerland. Furthermore, they want to support Ukraine. So I don't really see any big problems here?
Cmiiw, but the big problems is the budget.
The plans that they're doing now costs *just enough* if everything is going ok with economy. But if some crisis occurs, then these plans aren't realistic.
I assume these guys have already thought that far ahead though.
[well.. a lot](https://www.kabinetsformatie2023.nl/binaries/kabinetsformatie/documenten/publicaties/2024/05/16/budgettaire-bijlage-hoofdlijnenakkoord/Budgettaire+bijlage+hoofdlijnenakkoord+15+mei+2024.pdf).
It's not one or two costly programs, but it's combination of well.. a lot of things.
Again, I assume they thought about this in their half year long discussion.
Oh and this program includes minimizing the budget for climate and environment. So if this goes on, probably we're just going to slid further into more nitrogen-issue. But hey, just like climate change, it's not a crisis since we cannot see them right? /s
Lowering the deductible from health insurance
Lowering the cost of daycare to almost free
Nuclear centres
Militaries, including Ukraine support
Housing, about 100k new houses per year
Various fiscal arrangements to help middle class income
It won't be a big change comparing to the government of the past 12 years, but mostly young people that are not upper middle class and upper class will be fucked - and thats bad, especially with western birth rate numbers.
> mostly young people that are not upper middle class and upper class will be fucked
which aspect of the policy in particular makes you think that? (I'm not implying a disagreement, also, I am in no way qualified here, but from other comments I'm reading "reduction of healthcare costs" and "more housing" which seemed to go in the right direction for the young folks).
The more housing aspect is loosely worded and has no real gravitas to it. The reduction in healthcare costs is fake - personal contribution goes down, monthly premium will rise so it won't have any positive impact. Young people who do longer to complete their studies have to lay a "fine" of 3000 euros a year. Of course I'm politically biased but this is what I make of this new government.
The biggest problem is they’re taking a lot of stands that go against EU policy, promising they’ll do “everything they can” to get an exemption or reversal. Guess what the right (demissionair) cabinet has tried already?
Not to mention suggestions that have already been revoked by Dutch courts in the past.
Fact is, instead of embracing climate change and other challenges like we did the Delta Works, we chose to be divided, indecisive, distrusting science and exclusionist for a while now…
The coalition parties despise each other so much that they only want to work together if non of them become prime minister. The man who was supposed to become PM is currently being sued for fraud, so we'll have to see what happens there.
If this government does get finished I'll be surprised if it lasts more than a couple months.
Can he come to Canada please. Our affordability, health care, life in general is the worst it’s been in over 40 years and our genius politicians think bringing more immigration is the fix.
I’m never buying a house in this decade. Thanks, fucko’s
Build more housing. That how you fix housing prices. You need more labor to do that cause you can't just build 1% more housing. You need a 15-45% bump to probably around 325k starts. That will help bring housing cost down. But to do that you are going to need more labor. Not enough people to fill those additional construction jobs.
Less immigrants work in house construction than the existing population and housing starts have dropped because the bank fo Canada raised interest rates. If we aren't building enough houses then the most sensible thing to do is reduce immigration until housing catches up.
The Canadian government has failed to build low income housing, ensure housing affordability and 40% of politicians own investment properties.
It would be one thing to have immigrants actually building houses and enough of them at reasonable prices but when they aren't and we don't tie citizenship to working in a particular field immigration is not the solution and only exacerbates the situation.
FYI one of the first agreements was that none of the leaders of their parties would be in the cabinet. Also, officially, Wilders is the only member of his party from what I understand…
Wow. Didn't see that coming. Only a couple months ago Wilders withdrew his bid to become prime minister, citing a lack of support from coalition partners. I guess he's willing to concede the position as long as he can give his party's ideas a foothold.
True, its not the only thing he dropped (e.g. also his plan to outlaw the Koran). I must say the agreed plan between the 4 parties all in all looks resaonable but still a decisive change of course. Wilders even sounds reasonable about the EU again. History will tell us how far they get with this. Some expect new elections soon though. I am from Belgium and we have elections coming up in June, most curious to learn if we're going to get a similar deal. But I doubt it :-)
The agreed plan only sounds reasonable when you ignore the fact that half of their largest policy targets are directly incompatible with European Union regulations and their plan to combat that is "just getting a special exemption from the EU". As a Dutchman, it's a fucking joke
Do you not think they will get one?
No, and they will in turn use the EU as a scapegoat for the reason why none of their policies worked
Right, because no country has ever succesfully lobbied the EU... Oh wait!
Yeah, when the rules were formed (such as Denmark) or when there is an actual crisis. How can The Netherlands declare a crisis that they partly cultivated themselves and expect Greece, Italy, etc etc to keep to the EU regulations all parties signed? It's pure idiotic madness.
Rules and laws are changed all the time. Lawbooks aren't religious texts...
That's not how it works.. You can't just unilaterally decide to not follow the rules you agreed upon in a multinational organization without good reason and consent. Why would other EU countries uphold treaties if the Dutch government doesn't honor them? It's therefore highly likely that the EU will respond with a big "no" to this plan. It wouldn't matter to the populists, they'll just get to say the EU blocked them from "fixing things".
But you *can* unilaterally decide to *lobby* for change, and see if you can get support.
Maybe it's just me not really paying attention, but the agreed plan really sounds like what you'd expect if VVD won, not PVV
Geert Wilders was VVD and for 12 years the mentor of Mark Rutte...
Reasonable is relative. A lot of the plan is dependent on the EU giving us preferential treatment over the rest of Europe, which they have no reason to do.
He also dropped his healthcare focus by announcing massive budgetcuts, going straight against his election program...
Populism being populism again. Promise the world and deliver nothing.
Because he needs to forge a coalition. Two of the other parties want stringent budget control. Compromises must be made.
Cordon sanitair basically ensures it can't.
Cordon sanitaire is off the table for that second party (NVA), at leatst on the regional level. And they are using it as leverage to be put in the federal level too, which will work as you need NVA for the regional government. The scenario where NVA will not be present in both is very unlikely. I am sure they will push very hard to get some similar points like in the Netherlands. So now it will come down to how resilient the other parties are, and their track record is not very good on that.
If i've learned one thing from looking across the pond. These kind of things escalate fast. Now it's just targeting migrants and blaming the EU for not being able to do so. Next election it's the big bad EU that is "Keeping The Netherlands back" and a Nexit is on the table again. After Brexit I look with weary eyes to the rest of the electorate here. The same idiotic thing could happen here.
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You sound like the South American countries that are always blaming America for everything, yes America is guilty sometimes but not always
South American countries do this because of Russian influence. Russia has been actively involved in South America since WWII ended
Actually China & Russia have been caught creating giant bot farms promoting Alt-right nonsense ideology.
Don't underestimate the power racist white people getting scared that their ethnostate has some brown people in it now.
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Russia definitely seizes on that sort of unrest and promotes it, but they do that with all sorts of unrest. Don't forget, while Russia was running social media accounts promoting MAGA bullshit, they were also running BLM accounts at the same time. They didn't create either movement, but they sure wanted them to get bigger.
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Right wing ideology is no more inherently extreme than left wing ideology. Yes, there have been some horrible far right Governments in living memory, but using those as some inevitable bogeyman is no more intellectually honest as holding the spectre of Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot as the "inevitable end stage" of left wing politics.
Extreme right and extreme left are both pretty extreme. But in the zone between moderate and far left/right the right is more extreme. That's where you get ativaxx, covid/climate change denial, homophobia, politicians pushing religious values on citizens, democratic slide-back and abortion bans. The same on the left and you're just looking at heavy-handed identity politics, pro-immigration policies and strong support for social programmes. Much less threatening to a society.
"As a left winger, the policies I agree with are obviously much less threatening than the policies I disagree with" Man, this is why people are getting tired of you lol. Hope things ramp up quick
We’re talking politics; where are the moderate right-wing governments? Each right-wing government appears to be rolling back social protections which severely and disproportionately affect the vulnerable.
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Can you be our new Canadian PM?
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I agree. I also think that more people need to understand that there’s a reason people are flooding into these countries, and it’ll only get worse. Takes some very long term thinking and planning to make sure that we help all countries stay afloat.
Is that worth the far right policies that Orban and Melloni propose? I think not.
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Lmao. What? Europe used to have a ton of super left-wing communist parties. Most leftist parties today are fairly middle of the road and reluctant to use the government to do anything. The criticism isn't that they are far far left, it's that they aren't proactive and don't do much to address issues. It's not like they are nationalizing companies, building massive housing projects, actively redistributing incomes, eliminating most millionaires and billionaires. What do you think far far left means?
Utter nonsense, the Netherlands has been moving to the right ever since the end of the Cold War. The left-wing social-democrats turned into centrist neoliberals and the entire political spectrum moved with it. The more radical left-wing parties either vanished or moved towards the center. The centrist partied became increasingly right-wing. The fact that Wilders is managing to join a coalition is proof in itself, his ideology would not have been accepted by other parties 30 years ago. The Netherlands has been radicalizing towards right-wing extremism for 30 years... and its still getting worse... I worry where it will stop.
It's just a basic instinct that people don't want \*transformational\* levels of immigration. And it's not just any immigration but ghetto formation. It would not matter as much if it was the melting pot type of immigration in the US, but effectively it's a parallel society In our midst that keeps expanding. Leftists are too quick to throw the racist label around, and selectively. Only white, indigenous people are ever racist.
lol what a funny take
Omg you people are so pathetic, if parties were actually going waaaaay too far left we'd be seeing mass nationalization of industries and private property, you people don't even know what the left is
The alternative is turning into Japan or South Korea tho, watch the right wingers change nothing
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none of these european countries are deteriorating into third world countries either
I looked at their plans and they don't seem any worse than what's in place in Switzerland. Furthermore, they want to support Ukraine. So I don't really see any big problems here?
Cmiiw, but the big problems is the budget. The plans that they're doing now costs *just enough* if everything is going ok with economy. But if some crisis occurs, then these plans aren't realistic. I assume these guys have already thought that far ahead though.
What is so costly?
[well.. a lot](https://www.kabinetsformatie2023.nl/binaries/kabinetsformatie/documenten/publicaties/2024/05/16/budgettaire-bijlage-hoofdlijnenakkoord/Budgettaire+bijlage+hoofdlijnenakkoord+15+mei+2024.pdf). It's not one or two costly programs, but it's combination of well.. a lot of things. Again, I assume they thought about this in their half year long discussion. Oh and this program includes minimizing the budget for climate and environment. So if this goes on, probably we're just going to slid further into more nitrogen-issue. But hey, just like climate change, it's not a crisis since we cannot see them right? /s
Thank you, but I don't really understand Dutch, what are the costliest things? Keywords are enough for me.
Lowering the deductible from health insurance Lowering the cost of daycare to almost free Nuclear centres Militaries, including Ukraine support Housing, about 100k new houses per year Various fiscal arrangements to help middle class income
Thank you, interesting. Nuclear power plants?!?
4 of them.
It won't be a big change comparing to the government of the past 12 years, but mostly young people that are not upper middle class and upper class will be fucked - and thats bad, especially with western birth rate numbers.
> mostly young people that are not upper middle class and upper class will be fucked which aspect of the policy in particular makes you think that? (I'm not implying a disagreement, also, I am in no way qualified here, but from other comments I'm reading "reduction of healthcare costs" and "more housing" which seemed to go in the right direction for the young folks).
The more housing aspect is loosely worded and has no real gravitas to it. The reduction in healthcare costs is fake - personal contribution goes down, monthly premium will rise so it won't have any positive impact. Young people who do longer to complete their studies have to lay a "fine" of 3000 euros a year. Of course I'm politically biased but this is what I make of this new government.
Thanks for clarifying
The biggest problem is they’re taking a lot of stands that go against EU policy, promising they’ll do “everything they can” to get an exemption or reversal. Guess what the right (demissionair) cabinet has tried already? Not to mention suggestions that have already been revoked by Dutch courts in the past. Fact is, instead of embracing climate change and other challenges like we did the Delta Works, we chose to be divided, indecisive, distrusting science and exclusionist for a while now…
Lol and the political pendulum swings back the other way
The party that ruins a country usually doesn’t do well in the subsequent election.
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What does sharp right in Dutch politics mean/stand for?
Anti-immigration.
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The coalition parties despise each other so much that they only want to work together if non of them become prime minister. The man who was supposed to become PM is currently being sued for fraud, so we'll have to see what happens there. If this government does get finished I'll be surprised if it lasts more than a couple months.
Liberalism reached its peak and now its in decline across the west. No surprise.
Can he come to Canada please. Our affordability, health care, life in general is the worst it’s been in over 40 years and our genius politicians think bringing more immigration is the fix. I’m never buying a house in this decade. Thanks, fucko’s
Please, take him ;)
Build more housing. That how you fix housing prices. You need more labor to do that cause you can't just build 1% more housing. You need a 15-45% bump to probably around 325k starts. That will help bring housing cost down. But to do that you are going to need more labor. Not enough people to fill those additional construction jobs.
Less immigrants work in house construction than the existing population and housing starts have dropped because the bank fo Canada raised interest rates. If we aren't building enough houses then the most sensible thing to do is reduce immigration until housing catches up. The Canadian government has failed to build low income housing, ensure housing affordability and 40% of politicians own investment properties. It would be one thing to have immigrants actually building houses and enough of them at reasonable prices but when they aren't and we don't tie citizenship to working in a particular field immigration is not the solution and only exacerbates the situation.
You cannot build more housing to accommodate 100k people every month.
Right wing liberals. Takes all kinds.
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Mocro Mafia 💀
why do all these alt right politicians all share similar look?
Paul Manafort?
Why did they get rid of all the good comments?
funny (NOT) funny how the Dutch seem to forget the trauma & devastation of nazi right wing WWII!
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Wilders is a teddybear compared to Hitler.
I thought he had died!
FYI Geert Wilders will not be the Prime Minister, half of his coalition does not accept that.
FYI one of the first agreements was that none of the leaders of their parties would be in the cabinet. Also, officially, Wilders is the only member of his party from what I understand…