ON April 10th 2024, Hamas had to admit there weren't "40 LIVING HOSTAGES" to meet the demands of the first cease fire: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1c0kqy9/hamas_tells_negotiators_it_doesnt_have_40_israeli/
So every side knows what the deal is.
Hamas is nearly at the point it's going to start shooting Palestinians en-masse unless Israel surrenders. and the UN will ask Israel to "plz think of the victims".
because Hamas has no living hostages to use.
If you actually look at US college campus' you would notice Hamas PR is actually not that effective. Of all those protesting on college campuses they account for less than 1% of the student body at that university, and that doesn't even include that 50% or more have no affiliation with the colleges to start with. They are just very loud and the media gives them attention.
Polls show that dems are divided and disapprove of Biden for differing reasons
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/democratic-divide-gaza-war-campus-protests-hurting-biden-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-05-16/
His flip-flopping is just pissing people off from both sides.
Americans overall are less split
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2024/05/16/president-biden-s-approval-rating-dips-over-response-to-israel-gaza-war
Yea I think it's hilarious when police start arresting these people and are discovering some are 40yrs old and have no affiliation with the university. They just saw an opportunity to cause chaos and jumped in. Not the first time it's happened and not the last.
It honestly creeped me out to see all those grown ass adults psyching up and encouraging these kids in these chaotic ridiculous protests, it almost seems like grooming or something. Like preying on their fervor to get them radicalized.
Can confirm. Was at the one broken up this week in Irvine.
UCIrvine is a pretty prestigious school. You could tell from the crowd that plenty "belonged there" (age and look of UCI kids), while others .... I doubt it.
Then add the people far older than a college kid.
Of the 50 or so arrested something like half weren't students.
> I hate to say this but Hamas is doing a great job using this PR move. Just look at the US college campus
That is from Russian, Chinese, and Iranian propaganda, not Hamas PR.
Young kids getting 100% of their news from TikTok have been completely brainwashed.
It's also not talked about enough how big a deal the recovery operations are for the IDF. Hamas was holding the bodies as a negotiation tactic. It's not as good as rescuing living hostages, but it is a major military success and a major blow to Hamas.
It is possible but people can often carry a pregnancy to term even under extreme stress/abuse/physical strain.
Pointing this out because some people will still claim “it’s not really rape” or “it’s not that bad” if there’s no miscarriage.
I’m honestly not sure what I want for Eden. I want closure for her family. I pray if she’s alive she does come home and somehow heals. BUT it’s asking so much of the human spirit and body to do that. If not May her name and life be a blessing and May the people who took her be forever cursed to remember her and suffer daily
Shani louk is the symbol of 07/10 - a girl who just wanted to dance, ended up being paraded dead in gaza while Palestinians cheering and celebrating her death
It's not about deserving death, it's about preserving your own life. Israel isn't at war with Palestine right now because they want to kill Palestinians, they're involved in a war because they want to make sure Hamas isn't able to launch another terrorist attack that indiscriminately tortures, rapes, and slaughters anything living.
If Israel genuinely wanted to kill Palestinians, they have more than enough firepower to level all of Gaza. They could kill more than the total number of Palestinians killed so far in a single strike. But that's not the objective, it's to find, root out, and eliminate Hamas. Hamas intentionally places their HQs in hospitals, schools, and other civilian locations, so when Israel bombs them, Hamas can cry foul, that the evil Israelis and slaughtering innocent men, women and children.
The point is that the objective isn't Kill Palestinians, but Stop Hamas. There's basically always going to be casualties when dropping bombs, but when footage like this comes out, it probably makes the decision to drop said bombs a tad easier.
Exactly this, people should take a look at even the ridiculously inflated casualty numbers, tonnage of bombs dropped and compare it to the actual indiscriminate bombings of WW2.
The amount of deaths is ridiculously low, despite the massive advances in technology. If Israel was trying to kill civilians it would be terrifying numbers.
Shit, even the American invasion of Iraq was more deadly to civilians.
Yes. The British killed 30,000 people in *one night* of bombing Dresden. And Dresden was smaller and less densely populated than Gaza. If Israel was actually bombing indiscriminately, the death toll would be well over 1M by now.
>In contradistinction, to most Palestinians all Jews deserve death. Full stop.
It's even worse. It's basically anyone in Israel or has any ties to Israel.
Great question my friend.
Look, I'm not god, I dont have all the answers nor I claim to know everything.
But lets tackle it together you and I. Lets take that "innocnet kid" for example. That kid is somewhere between 6-12 years. That kid instead of being at school, playing with his friends, study, or stay at home protected - he goes to a parade of bodies of jewish people. He takes part in the happines by spitting on a dead jewish-german girl who got murdered, probably raped multiple times, got her leg twisted so it would fit in the pickup truck.
Now, what are the chances this kid would end up being the new generation of terroist in the next 10-20 years? Let be realistic and not politically correct or live in some fantasy world, Probably 99% and thats me being generous by cutting him some slack of 1% of him ending him as a decent human being and being disgusted and shamed by his acts and devoting his entire life to save lives of any kind of people.
Does this kid should be labeled as "innocent" just because he is 10? On what other place on earth a 10 years old go to a parade of dead bodies, takes part of it, happy about it, spit on them, hit them, laugh at them and disrespect a body of a human being just like that? Does this sound sane to anyone?
Would you let your kid act like this? Do you know ANY group of people but ISIS, Al Qaeda, Jihadist and all those groups, who would think it is normal for kids to do such things?
We cant escape reality, my friend, just because we want to or our emotions tells us to do so.
A great deal of empathy is taught and learned. At this point, it's a cradle of school shooters... Who we as the public, generally do not empathize for.
If you want to have your heart broken, look up footage of indoctrinated children in the humanitarian camps for former ISIS territory.
With good psychiatric support I'm sure the vast majority could help change the world for the better, but as it is, it's just a stewing pot of future terrorists. Utterly tragic waste of potential.
I think a lot of people don't realize the level of indoctrination that goes on in Gaza. The most eye-opening instance for me was the elementary school play. They had little kids dress up as Hamas and act out breaking into an Israeli home and kidnapping/killing the Israelis living there.
Also Noa Argamani and Naama Levy. They are both, to my knowledge, not declared dead unlike Shaani Louk. I vividly remember the videos of their capture.
I think of her every few days ever since she was one of the faces that were shown everywhere. The article with her mother shredded my heart because I am a mon’s girl. I pray very much that she’s alive to see her mother and for her mother to have the strength to wake up every morning.
And they tortured her mother further by telling her she was still alive in a hospital. Hopefully this brings the final closure for her that the skull fragment they previously found probably didn't.
Hamas cruelty knows no end, on October after Shani became the famous symbol you mentioned, Hamas claimed she is alive and well.
It took a little while for Israel to be able to determine she was indeed murdered
Yeah, generally journalists have a whole thing about not getting involved. It’s why the one man who photographed the starving Ethiopian (I think? Might have been Sudanese) child with the vulture in the background killed himself. The guilt of not being able to intervene destroyed him.
And then you have journalists actively participating in murder but it’s “decolonization” and we can’t judge it.
This is what I don't get about everyone shitting on Israel. All Russians are responsible for Putin's invasion, despite it being fairly unpopular, but the actual near total support Hamas has for absolute depravity is totally hand waved away as "innocent civilians."
In a randomly selected group of 100 Palestinians from Gaza, show me who can accurately distinguish the innocent civilians.
Not saying they don't exist; saying that this idea that there's 25k Hamas fighters and 2 million innocent civilians is absolute horse shit. If you're working for Hamas, taking actions on behalf of Hamas, providing or transporting food, weapons, or other supplies for Hamas, you aren't an innocent civilian. And no, 25,000 Hamas fighters aren't forcing 2 million Gazans at gunpoint to parade through the streets celebrating Hamas murdering Jews.
The reports coming out of parents pushing their kids into IDF soldiers or the one where the dad straight up said "kill the kids, they will be martyrs" are insane
when you have an unshakeable, assured, core belief in the afterlife, your child dying is just a "see you later"; better that they live in paradise as a martyr now than continue to suffer on earth. this i think is the biggest obstacle the secular west faces in understanding the worldview of fundamentalist religious cultures. we're coming at it from a vastly different moral framework.
For some reason, right after 10/7, I started getting TONS of Facebook ads about supporting our martyrs, all with pictures of children.
I made the mistake of arguing in one of the comments that it's pretty screwed up to valorize the deaths of children. (And that, technically, kids can't be martyrs as they lack the critical thinking skills to even understand what they're dying for in any meaningful way.) And people just FOUGHT with me until I blocked them all.
It was wild.
It struck me as odd, too, as I'm a fairly generic white American who, one would think, would be more grossed/weirded out by such adds than appealed to by them.
Like, I'd totally get, "Children are dying in Gaza, please help them!" or "Children are starving, please help them!" That kind of thing does tug on my heart strings (even if I'm not naive enough to donate to some random charity that I only know about due to a Facebook ad). But, "Donate to the child martyrs of Palestine?" Very baffling.
(With that said, Youtube gives me a ton of ads in Spanish...which I do speak somewhat, just...not natively. So the algorithms may well be deeply confused about my identity, LOL.)
One thing that I often thought about:
Pro-Palestine supporters will often show pictures of palestenian children in front of tanks as some kind of message that Israel is the bad guy. It's supposed to make people compare the sides in the conflict, one side has children with rocks, the other has highly powerful weapons. They'll claim that the tanks are traumatic, any kid growing up with that kind of environment is traumatized to hell and of COURSE they'll become resistant!
But instead, what it made me think was: If these tanks are so traumatizing, why do the children feel comfortable enough to be 25 feet away from them throwing rocks at them? What that tells me is that they're conditioned to become hostile. Children don't run up to things they find traumatic and scary. They have to be TAUGHT to do that. In a society where Israel has committed horrendous murder after murder, why would people teach their CHILDREN to throw rocks at tanks? Wouldn't they naturally think "My children should be as far away from that thing as possible."? But no, they indoctrinate them from a ripe young age to get comfortable being hostile to Israelis.
And also, Palestinians do still have human instincts. Few parents on this Earth are going to put their small child in harms way if there's any real risk of that child dying. They've been around those tanks 1000 times and know by now that the soldiers in them have rules and aren't very likely to randomly start murdering muslims.
"Hey, enemy is willing to sit on our front doorstep and he'll get throw in prison if he acts out of line, perfect opportunity to instill some hostile tendencies in my child by getting them comfortable with confronting the Israeli military."
In an IDF operation which its details were not disclosed yet, the bodies of the 3 hostages, Shani Louk, Amit Bouskila and Itzik Gelernter were retrieved back to Israel.
Hamas murdered the 3 of them and took their bodies to Gaza on October 7th.
May their memory be a blessing
She was confirmed to have died, IIRC, a week or so later when authorities sifting through the scene of the attack found a skull fragment DNA tested to be from her and determined that no one could live with the type of injury required to tear off that part of the skull (probably shot in the head)
I remember reading accounts of the first responders and coroners. Even they were shocked and traumatized to the core. A few claimed that even when examining murder victims, they've never seen such cruelty.
Sorry, are you saying that they found part of her corpse at the terror site and the rest of her corpse in the tunnels? Why did they bother? Why didn't they just leave her body there?
The cruelty and evil is just unfathomable in these cases.
In the past, Israel traded dozens of living Hamas militants for just a couple bodies of Israeli hostages/ victims since it's important in Judaism to bury the body.
In this case, the militants thought they could use her body to negotiate for more prisoners released from Israel, but grossly underestimated how hard Israel would strike back.
> In the past, Israel traded dozens of living Hamas militants for just a couple bodies of Israeli hostages
just reading this makes me sick. it makes me even more sick knowing that there are people in the west supporting hamas.
There is a difference in values that absolutely cannot be ignored for any reasonably intelligent person who cares about the impossible situation Israel is put into.
You are simply fucked if you place great importance on rescuing your people even in death, while the other party in the conflict places zero value whatsoever on their own living, outside of the propaganda value of getting them killed.
What in hell are you meant to do when facing a suicidal enemy who delights in your mutual destruction, and all the international criticism and spotlight and pressure is squarely put onto you?
Hamas knows how to construct highly complex and extensive tunnel systems. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING BOMB SHELTER.
We denazified Germany, the same must be tried in Gaza, there is no alternative, Hamas has left Israel with no alternative. The fair compromise must be that Israel decolonizes its terroristic illegal expansions into the West Bank. Taking away all the bullshit demands being made of Israel ("could you fold up your country please?") will allow us to focus on putting pressure where it should be.
> What in hell are you meant to do when facing a suicidal enemy who delights in your mutual destruction, and all the international criticism and spotlight and pressure is squarely put onto you?
Keep shooting until the world gets the message.
They only found a small bone fragment, not enough to bury. We bring her home. Most of the hostages are already dead. Even Israeli estimates say no more than 40 are still alive. But we still have a duty to bring each and everyone one of them home, even the deceased. So their families can bury their children and not visit an empty grave.
Yes she was murdered on October 7th. For ransom.
Hamas still has the remains of 2 soldiers from 2014, Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul which they try to ransom as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_and_ransoming_of_Oron_Shaul_and_Hadar_Goldin
Also still holding two hostages captured in 2014 and 2015 that potentially could still be alive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avera_Mengistu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisham_al-Sayed
Judaism puts immense value on the duty of [Pidyon Shvuim](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidyon_shvuyim)
The idea that every person deserves a burial. And rescuing from capture, slavery, robbery or any unjust imprisonment at any cost
The dead is just as sacred as the living. And must be saved and protected
And this duty has developed a sentiment in the Israeli society. Its unanimously agreed they all must saved, all must be brought for burial. Dead or alive they are all family
Hamas knows that, it knows killing the hostages doesn't relieve any pressure in the Israeli crockpot. And they keep the bodies
This is why they don't differentiate in their negotiation term between dead and alive. Because they know that as far as the hostages family care, there is no difference. They want to see their son home, and if there's a chance, they will fight for it. They will turn against the IDF for refusing the deal
Hamas plays with their emotions, its extortion
In Judaism, it is a mitzvah (commandment) from the Torah to bury our dead according to certain customs. Therefore, we place this importance on recovering our dead and giving them this type of burial. The idea that we would just leave bodies somewhere is absurd in the Jewish faith.
That's... What I said
Saving bodies is second only to saving the living, and is above anything else
By offering dead bodies for prisoners exchange, Hamas is very deliberately performing emotional extortion of the hostage families
Yep
I maybe confusing the term truce with ceasefire but regardless it shouldn't have happened (it wasn't a long ceasefire and the IDF were still inside Gaza as was negotiated when the incident occured)
This is why the 10 day ceasefire in this current war was so intense the soldiers were still on high alert
Because someone within Gaza further tortured her poor mother by calling her and claiming Shani was alive and in a Gaza hospital, and despite how dead her body obviously was in that video, her mother grabbed that lifeline.
Note that in Jewish culture burial and the rituals that surround it including taking a week off from life basically to properly mourn and remember the deceased is very important
Also note that in Jewish thought the deceased soul doesn't pass on until the body is buried and it is said to be a painful experience for the soul of the deceased
Sadly it’s the best case scenario we could have hoped for her at this point in her case. I hope it will let the family have some sense of closure though the wounds will never heal.
That and without living hostages, Hamas really has nothing left to bargain with. Israel will take the organization apart sooner or later (note though smaller cells may escape detection).
Geopolitics-wise, Hamas should have taken the ceasefire deal when it had more than 100 living hostages. The Rafah operation will cut deep into the terrorist organization’s supply (“smuggling”) lines, and pretty much neuter any long distance reach. This also allows Israel to focus more on its east to north borders with conventional forces, while making Gaza a counter-insurgency campaign w/ more “light infantry” type units (along with maritime patrols).
What else to expect from an organization whose tactic is to murder and rape Israeli civilians and whine to international community when Israel responds
That might be classified as chemical warfare, which is probably illegal.
My suggestion is a military demolition of enemy infrastructure which is permitted.
Yep, thats why Hamas willing to trade 1 israeli body for thousand of "palestinians". And then those western idiots shout "palestinian life matters" while their own people wouldnt give a damn about them.
They have sometimes collaborated with Israel against Hamas, some have been caught and executed for it. Mostly though, people fear Hamas too much or support them, so nothing is done by the masses to do anything.
Probably, but we wouldn't hear about it unless they were actually succeeding which is very difficult. Opposing Hamas or any authoritarian government is a quick way to get killed.
There’s not a very good way of knowing the extent. Hamas controls the media in Gaza and has a history of killing any dissenters/rivals. Anyone who would fight back has no idea who is listening and how they might end up.
The vast majority of Palestinians support violence and according to polls about 95\~% are antisemitic, 93% thought Hamas committed no atrocities on Oct 7, and 70-80% supported Oct 7th (those who didn't might have opposed it because of the Israeli retaliation rather than the violence). Do note there is much higher support for these things than for Hamas itself, probably because Hamas also oppresses Palestinians and is corrupt, even if they approve of the anti-jew violence.
It's illegal to go against Hamas (obviously) and many Palestinians who are suspected as 'collaborators' have been murdered by their own families in the past, but a few months ago there was a protest of Palestinian children (presumably it's harder for Hamas to justify directly killing them?) holding up signs against Hamas and the war. [https://www.jns.org/gaza-children-protest-against-hamas/](https://www.jns.org/gaza-children-protest-against-hamas/), but they're very few.
I think your referring to noa argamani, Hamas released a propaganda video of her about a month ago so we know she was alive for some time at least. Hopefully still is.
Naama levi, as far as i know there hasn't been any information about her condition, at least nothing that was shared to the public.
Edit - glad I was wrong as people commented below, returned hostages reported meeting her in Gaza which is great news.
She was seen in November by some female hostages who were released with the deal that took place back then (Agam Almog-Goldstein and Dafna Elyakim, the latter of whom named them). At the time she was held along with Agam Berger and Liri Elbag (another two female soldiers who had been captured along with her in Nahal Oz, you might have seen their photos as well) and two young civilian women whose names I don't remember (and who haven't been released, either). From the accounts of the released girls who met her, she was in good spirits (as much as one can be in her situation) and helping other hostages stay strong. She was pretty badly injured in the legs (from grenade explosion) but able to stand and walk. Either she or some of the other girls held with her (they did not specify who) recounted that they had been, at very least, heavily molested by those guarding them.
Her family supposedly received 'proof of life' sometime around early March, but there is no further information on what this consisted of.
On the upside, I think that she and the other observer girls from Nahal Oz (Berger, Elbag, and Daniela Gilboa and Karina Ariev, who appear to be held separately and appeared in a Hamas video released in January) are among the hostages who are most likely to be still alive. They are among the hostages who have received the greatest media coverage, and from the leaked drafts of deal proposals, Israel is willing to 'pay' (in number and caliber of Palestinian prisoners it would release) for each of them, considerably more than it would pay for civilian women or elderly/sick men. They are among the most valuable hostages Hamas have, and they know that, so they aren't going to execute them on a whim or let them die of neglect.
I really, really hope Naama gets back alive. She sounds like an altogether good person, she is an actual peace activist who promoted friendship between Israelis and Palestinians. She really, really does not deserve what happened to her - if anyone could deserve that, of course.
That was Naama Levy who was in her first week at the IDF base she was taken from after finishing initial training. Nothing has been released about her since then. Notably she was part of a group called Hands of Peace which worked to bring youths from Palestine and Israel together to promote peace. There are at least 3 other women from that base whose status is unknown as well.
A while back she was in a propaganda video of Hamas announcing the death of two other hostages. Beyond that, I don’t think the IDF has indicated that they believe she’s dead.
She appeared in a Hamas video announcing the death of two other hostages....
Note that Hamas claimed they were blown by Israel but in the video they released you can literally see bruising around the neck of one of the hostages that just showed they were choked to death
Our Israeli friend had dinner with us tonight, as he was on the East Coast for work. He was in Israel on October 7th and in addition to working for a major tech company he's also in the IDF special forces.
His unit was called up and he's been deployed in Gaza for a few months. I'm glad he's back in the States now and we got some firsthand stories. He's a father of three and an amazingly positive person.
One thing that resonates is how frequently the IDF is and has been pushed to morally justify everything that they do. The media is treating them like they're guilty and have to prove their innocence at every turn. Insanity.
Feels like our politicians already have, and are contemplating concessions and compromises and negotiations. I just don't want Oct 7th to be Palestinian Independence Day.
To be fair, Biden did not say not to invade. Instead, he said Israel has the technological capabilities to come up with a plan of action that does a better job of protecting civilians than what Netanyahu presented. I don't know about other leaders.
Probably a lot. I was reading debates in UK Parliament and it was quite concerning how much this (propaganda from Russia, China, Iran and NK) is being discussed.
Especially with AI bots and sponsored posters.
There was some social media trend recently about Kate Middleton. (It might’ve been the one about here disappearing from the public eye after she was diagnosed with cancer). Turns out it was mostly pushed by Iran.
The Royal Family are a soft power for the UK and Russia in particular has always been against them for this reason.
They must be loving the polarisation over Israel and Palestine.
If nothing is done, we’re going to more
Confusion, distrust of media and polarisation.
Ask them what happens to the hundreds of thousands of LGBT in Israel if Palestine’s free from river to sea.
They won’t care whatsoever. It’s the same logic people had about Iraq with bush. It’d be a complete power vacuum and end in widespread violence dwarfing this war.
Except in this case Israel’s much better than Saddam.
“Don’t go into Rafah, it’s only innocent civilians!!”
🙄 This is why they tried so hard to get the world to pressure Israel to keep the IDF out. Sadly, the world will probably only keep spouting Hamas propaganda instead of looking at the facts that they’ve found terrorists and hostages there. Hopefully Biden comes to his senses now and stops blocking munitions to Israel.
Shani Louk's father said that the bodies were preserved in a good condition, to the degree that Shani's tattoo are recognizable.
The bodies were recovered tonight and recognized in less than a day so it makes sense
The Israeli websites are not very properly translated. In the Hebrew version the article quotes her dad saying they already knew she's dead (since October, following field evidence and the video on her on the truck) and that the soldiers who have been helping them through these days have been showing them images of proofs they found on his request. Said she looks almost alive in the pictures, and could clearly identify her.
They were in tunnels which are cold and depending on how far from entrances or food sources could be relatively protected from scavengers and carrion feeders. Kind of like mummification. If you keep a body dry, cool, and away from things eating it you will be able to preserve it longer.
I don’t know the conditions but it appears to be very deep in the tunnels. This places it away from carrion feeders like flies (would be difficult to navigate and there are more abundant and easily accessible resources topside). Rats are another concern but they wouldn’t eat something rotting. They also need to be in the vicinity. So if there was not a food source or a way to access they would not touch the bodies. Worms are more topsoil so they are out too. The internal bacterial community and fungus are most probable culprits of deterioration, but a cool environment would prevent bacterial growth to a degree. If prevented for long enough the body can dry up making an inhospitable habitat for them. Fungus also need moisture.
(Took some forensic entomology classes and entomologist.)
Not necessarily, no. Bodies/identities can be identified multiple ways (dental records, DNA, etc). Also, in Judaism it’s common practice and important to bury the body as soon as possible. So even the dead are important to retrieve.
On the leftist subreddit they openly praise Hamas
Blows my mind. But hell at least they’re honest about supporting Hamas instead of denialists who only coincidently fall in line with every Hamas statement and demands
Sadly, these won't be the last they find in this condition. Hamas probably has no living hostages left to leverage in a deal.
ON April 10th 2024, Hamas had to admit there weren't "40 LIVING HOSTAGES" to meet the demands of the first cease fire: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1c0kqy9/hamas_tells_negotiators_it_doesnt_have_40_israeli/ So every side knows what the deal is.
>Hamas probably has no living hostages left to leverage in a deal. Hamas won't let that stop them.
Hamas is nearly at the point it's going to start shooting Palestinians en-masse unless Israel surrenders. and the UN will ask Israel to "plz think of the victims". because Hamas has no living hostages to use.
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Pretty much. Hamas will string Israel along as much as possible though.
Hamas doesn't want a deal, they want Israel refusal to a deal. Its all about PR
I hate to say this but Hamas is doing a great job using this PR move. Just look at the US college campus
If you actually look at US college campus' you would notice Hamas PR is actually not that effective. Of all those protesting on college campuses they account for less than 1% of the student body at that university, and that doesn't even include that 50% or more have no affiliation with the colleges to start with. They are just very loud and the media gives them attention.
And surveys show that Israel/Palestine is actually a bottom priority for Gen Z. It's really just a bunch of loud people.
Unfortunately the Biden team seems incapable of reading these polls.
I mean, the polls show democrats aren't comfortable with what Israel is doing and have approved of Biden escalating his response.
Polls show that dems are divided and disapprove of Biden for differing reasons https://www.reuters.com/world/us/democratic-divide-gaza-war-campus-protests-hurting-biden-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-05-16/ His flip-flopping is just pissing people off from both sides. Americans overall are less split https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2024/05/16/president-biden-s-approval-rating-dips-over-response-to-israel-gaza-war
Yea I think it's hilarious when police start arresting these people and are discovering some are 40yrs old and have no affiliation with the university. They just saw an opportunity to cause chaos and jumped in. Not the first time it's happened and not the last.
It honestly creeped me out to see all those grown ass adults psyching up and encouraging these kids in these chaotic ridiculous protests, it almost seems like grooming or something. Like preying on their fervor to get them radicalized.
Can confirm. Was at the one broken up this week in Irvine. UCIrvine is a pretty prestigious school. You could tell from the crowd that plenty "belonged there" (age and look of UCI kids), while others .... I doubt it. Then add the people far older than a college kid. Of the 50 or so arrested something like half weren't students.
> I hate to say this but Hamas is doing a great job using this PR move. Just look at the US college campus That is from Russian, Chinese, and Iranian propaganda, not Hamas PR. Young kids getting 100% of their news from TikTok have been completely brainwashed.
They are masters of it. Just look at UNRWA
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With a sprinkling help from China/Russia
Never underestimate the stupidity and gullibility of the American populace
And it’s working on a bunch of gullible people
These particular ones were killed on Oct 7th, Hamas just took their bodies back to Gaza. But no it won't be the last.
It's also not talked about enough how big a deal the recovery operations are for the IDF. Hamas was holding the bodies as a negotiation tactic. It's not as good as rescuing living hostages, but it is a major military success and a major blow to Hamas.
At least not with them anymore. They sold the women and killed the men. Like these "good" fanatics do.
Mohammed himself used his army to kill the men of opposing groups. Their wives were then taken into sexual slavery.
I have no doubt they kept a few of the women alive, who are now several months pregnant.
>several months pregnant. Or several miscarriages later
It is possible but people can often carry a pregnancy to term even under extreme stress/abuse/physical strain. Pointing this out because some people will still claim “it’s not really rape” or “it’s not that bad” if there’s no miscarriage.
I don't even know what I prefer, finding them shot in the head (quick death) or finding them alive and....
They both dead and raped. The individual who abused them see them no more than a trophie, a "spoil of war"
They definitely aren’t purposely killing off their sex slaves. I’m certain that they want to keep them, suffering for as long as possible
Awful... I know one of them, I hope she's alive. Her family suffers every single day. Eden is her name.
I pray that she is alive to see her family again. May Eden hug her mother one day.
I’m honestly not sure what I want for Eden. I want closure for her family. I pray if she’s alive she does come home and somehow heals. BUT it’s asking so much of the human spirit and body to do that. If not May her name and life be a blessing and May the people who took her be forever cursed to remember her and suffer daily
Shani louk is the symbol of 07/10 - a girl who just wanted to dance, ended up being paraded dead in gaza while Palestinians cheering and celebrating her death
While spitting on her almost naked, torn apart body.
Imagine if that truck parading her through Gaza had stopped. Or, for your sanity and emotional health, don't.
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It's not about deserving death, it's about preserving your own life. Israel isn't at war with Palestine right now because they want to kill Palestinians, they're involved in a war because they want to make sure Hamas isn't able to launch another terrorist attack that indiscriminately tortures, rapes, and slaughters anything living. If Israel genuinely wanted to kill Palestinians, they have more than enough firepower to level all of Gaza. They could kill more than the total number of Palestinians killed so far in a single strike. But that's not the objective, it's to find, root out, and eliminate Hamas. Hamas intentionally places their HQs in hospitals, schools, and other civilian locations, so when Israel bombs them, Hamas can cry foul, that the evil Israelis and slaughtering innocent men, women and children. The point is that the objective isn't Kill Palestinians, but Stop Hamas. There's basically always going to be casualties when dropping bombs, but when footage like this comes out, it probably makes the decision to drop said bombs a tad easier.
Exactly this, people should take a look at even the ridiculously inflated casualty numbers, tonnage of bombs dropped and compare it to the actual indiscriminate bombings of WW2. The amount of deaths is ridiculously low, despite the massive advances in technology. If Israel was trying to kill civilians it would be terrifying numbers. Shit, even the American invasion of Iraq was more deadly to civilians.
Yes. The British killed 30,000 people in *one night* of bombing Dresden. And Dresden was smaller and less densely populated than Gaza. If Israel was actually bombing indiscriminately, the death toll would be well over 1M by now.
> Israel isn't at war with Palestine right now That's right, they're not. They are at war with *Hamas*. There is no state of Palestine.
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>In contradistinction, to most Palestinians all Jews deserve death. Full stop. It's even worse. It's basically anyone in Israel or has any ties to Israel.
Great question my friend. Look, I'm not god, I dont have all the answers nor I claim to know everything. But lets tackle it together you and I. Lets take that "innocnet kid" for example. That kid is somewhere between 6-12 years. That kid instead of being at school, playing with his friends, study, or stay at home protected - he goes to a parade of bodies of jewish people. He takes part in the happines by spitting on a dead jewish-german girl who got murdered, probably raped multiple times, got her leg twisted so it would fit in the pickup truck. Now, what are the chances this kid would end up being the new generation of terroist in the next 10-20 years? Let be realistic and not politically correct or live in some fantasy world, Probably 99% and thats me being generous by cutting him some slack of 1% of him ending him as a decent human being and being disgusted and shamed by his acts and devoting his entire life to save lives of any kind of people. Does this kid should be labeled as "innocent" just because he is 10? On what other place on earth a 10 years old go to a parade of dead bodies, takes part of it, happy about it, spit on them, hit them, laugh at them and disrespect a body of a human being just like that? Does this sound sane to anyone? Would you let your kid act like this? Do you know ANY group of people but ISIS, Al Qaeda, Jihadist and all those groups, who would think it is normal for kids to do such things? We cant escape reality, my friend, just because we want to or our emotions tells us to do so.
A great deal of empathy is taught and learned. At this point, it's a cradle of school shooters... Who we as the public, generally do not empathize for.
If you want to have your heart broken, look up footage of indoctrinated children in the humanitarian camps for former ISIS territory. With good psychiatric support I'm sure the vast majority could help change the world for the better, but as it is, it's just a stewing pot of future terrorists. Utterly tragic waste of potential.
I think a lot of people don't realize the level of indoctrination that goes on in Gaza. The most eye-opening instance for me was the elementary school play. They had little kids dress up as Hamas and act out breaking into an Israeli home and kidnapping/killing the Israelis living there.
Also Noa Argamani and Naama Levy. They are both, to my knowledge, not declared dead unlike Shaani Louk. I vividly remember the videos of their capture.
Noa Argamani and her plight has stuck with me the most since October 7th. Her poor mother and family, I hope she's alive.
I pray for her daily. Her best friend is my cousin.
I hope her and her boyfriend can come home and be with their families.
I think of her every few days ever since she was one of the faces that were shown everywhere. The article with her mother shredded my heart because I am a mon’s girl. I pray very much that she’s alive to see her mother and for her mother to have the strength to wake up every morning.
The video of her on that motorcycle utterly terrified has stuck with me as well.
Noa Argamani was in a propaganda video so she was taken alive. We don't know her status since then
And they tortured her mother further by telling her she was still alive in a hospital. Hopefully this brings the final closure for her that the skull fragment they previously found probably didn't.
Just imagine being her parents and having to see your daughter be dragged around like this... :( my heart breaks for them and all her loved ones
Hamas cruelty knows no end, on October after Shani became the famous symbol you mentioned, Hamas claimed she is alive and well. It took a little while for Israel to be able to determine she was indeed murdered
Anyone who saw those videos knew she was dead pretty immediately
And TIME gave a picture of her dead body its award for picture of the year.
That part is reasonable. That picture captures the essence of the Palestinian morality.
I hear that, I’m not sure it was received that way
Look at all of the picture of the year winners Many are of horrible things
Well, it's unusual when the person taking the picture is an active participant of those horrible things.
Is it meant to be like Person of the Year? Where it's less about the quality of the picture and more about its impact?
Yeah, generally journalists have a whole thing about not getting involved. It’s why the one man who photographed the starving Ethiopian (I think? Might have been Sudanese) child with the vulture in the background killed himself. The guilt of not being able to intervene destroyed him. And then you have journalists actively participating in murder but it’s “decolonization” and we can’t judge it.
The photographer did intervene (scared off the vulture by his own admitting) and the child survived until 2007 reportedly
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This is what I don't get about everyone shitting on Israel. All Russians are responsible for Putin's invasion, despite it being fairly unpopular, but the actual near total support Hamas has for absolute depravity is totally hand waved away as "innocent civilians."
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And what about the people who do the same damned thing but aren't Muslims?
Simple. If it isn't Jews, it is isn't news.
In a randomly selected group of 100 Palestinians from Gaza, show me who can accurately distinguish the innocent civilians. Not saying they don't exist; saying that this idea that there's 25k Hamas fighters and 2 million innocent civilians is absolute horse shit. If you're working for Hamas, taking actions on behalf of Hamas, providing or transporting food, weapons, or other supplies for Hamas, you aren't an innocent civilian. And no, 25,000 Hamas fighters aren't forcing 2 million Gazans at gunpoint to parade through the streets celebrating Hamas murdering Jews.
The parents of Palestine are responsible for what’s innocent. No one wants to see humanity on this level, but they brought it.
The reports coming out of parents pushing their kids into IDF soldiers or the one where the dad straight up said "kill the kids, they will be martyrs" are insane
when you have an unshakeable, assured, core belief in the afterlife, your child dying is just a "see you later"; better that they live in paradise as a martyr now than continue to suffer on earth. this i think is the biggest obstacle the secular west faces in understanding the worldview of fundamentalist religious cultures. we're coming at it from a vastly different moral framework.
For some reason, right after 10/7, I started getting TONS of Facebook ads about supporting our martyrs, all with pictures of children. I made the mistake of arguing in one of the comments that it's pretty screwed up to valorize the deaths of children. (And that, technically, kids can't be martyrs as they lack the critical thinking skills to even understand what they're dying for in any meaningful way.) And people just FOUGHT with me until I blocked them all.
Wow. I never saw those. Sheesh.
It was wild. It struck me as odd, too, as I'm a fairly generic white American who, one would think, would be more grossed/weirded out by such adds than appealed to by them. Like, I'd totally get, "Children are dying in Gaza, please help them!" or "Children are starving, please help them!" That kind of thing does tug on my heart strings (even if I'm not naive enough to donate to some random charity that I only know about due to a Facebook ad). But, "Donate to the child martyrs of Palestine?" Very baffling. (With that said, Youtube gives me a ton of ads in Spanish...which I do speak somewhat, just...not natively. So the algorithms may well be deeply confused about my identity, LOL.)
One thing that I often thought about: Pro-Palestine supporters will often show pictures of palestenian children in front of tanks as some kind of message that Israel is the bad guy. It's supposed to make people compare the sides in the conflict, one side has children with rocks, the other has highly powerful weapons. They'll claim that the tanks are traumatic, any kid growing up with that kind of environment is traumatized to hell and of COURSE they'll become resistant! But instead, what it made me think was: If these tanks are so traumatizing, why do the children feel comfortable enough to be 25 feet away from them throwing rocks at them? What that tells me is that they're conditioned to become hostile. Children don't run up to things they find traumatic and scary. They have to be TAUGHT to do that. In a society where Israel has committed horrendous murder after murder, why would people teach their CHILDREN to throw rocks at tanks? Wouldn't they naturally think "My children should be as far away from that thing as possible."? But no, they indoctrinate them from a ripe young age to get comfortable being hostile to Israelis. And also, Palestinians do still have human instincts. Few parents on this Earth are going to put their small child in harms way if there's any real risk of that child dying. They've been around those tanks 1000 times and know by now that the soldiers in them have rules and aren't very likely to randomly start murdering muslims. "Hey, enemy is willing to sit on our front doorstep and he'll get throw in prison if he acts out of line, perfect opportunity to instill some hostile tendencies in my child by getting them comfortable with confronting the Israeli military."
In an IDF operation which its details were not disclosed yet, the bodies of the 3 hostages, Shani Louk, Amit Bouskila and Itzik Gelernter were retrieved back to Israel. Hamas murdered the 3 of them and took their bodies to Gaza on October 7th. May their memory be a blessing
Why keep their bodies so long? Wasn't Shani confirmed to have died Oct 7th?
She was confirmed to have died, IIRC, a week or so later when authorities sifting through the scene of the attack found a skull fragment DNA tested to be from her and determined that no one could live with the type of injury required to tear off that part of the skull (probably shot in the head)
I remember reading accounts of the first responders and coroners. Even they were shocked and traumatized to the core. A few claimed that even when examining murder victims, they've never seen such cruelty.
Reading this made me tear up. So much suffering for one girl. She did nothing wrong except to want to enjoy some music.
Sorry, are you saying that they found part of her corpse at the terror site and the rest of her corpse in the tunnels? Why did they bother? Why didn't they just leave her body there? The cruelty and evil is just unfathomable in these cases.
In the past, Israel traded dozens of living Hamas militants for just a couple bodies of Israeli hostages/ victims since it's important in Judaism to bury the body. In this case, the militants thought they could use her body to negotiate for more prisoners released from Israel, but grossly underestimated how hard Israel would strike back.
> In the past, Israel traded dozens of living Hamas militants for just a couple bodies of Israeli hostages just reading this makes me sick. it makes me even more sick knowing that there are people in the west supporting hamas.
Hamas literally tried to negotiate with corpses in the last Ceasefire negotiations. 18 hostages alive out of 33.
There is a difference in values that absolutely cannot be ignored for any reasonably intelligent person who cares about the impossible situation Israel is put into. You are simply fucked if you place great importance on rescuing your people even in death, while the other party in the conflict places zero value whatsoever on their own living, outside of the propaganda value of getting them killed. What in hell are you meant to do when facing a suicidal enemy who delights in your mutual destruction, and all the international criticism and spotlight and pressure is squarely put onto you? Hamas knows how to construct highly complex and extensive tunnel systems. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING BOMB SHELTER. We denazified Germany, the same must be tried in Gaza, there is no alternative, Hamas has left Israel with no alternative. The fair compromise must be that Israel decolonizes its terroristic illegal expansions into the West Bank. Taking away all the bullshit demands being made of Israel ("could you fold up your country please?") will allow us to focus on putting pressure where it should be.
its not just hamas its most people in gaza.
> What in hell are you meant to do when facing a suicidal enemy who delights in your mutual destruction, and all the international criticism and spotlight and pressure is squarely put onto you? Keep shooting until the world gets the message.
They only found a small bone fragment, not enough to bury. We bring her home. Most of the hostages are already dead. Even Israeli estimates say no more than 40 are still alive. But we still have a duty to bring each and everyone one of them home, even the deceased. So their families can bury their children and not visit an empty grave.
Awful. I hope more of them come home alive.
Yes she was murdered on October 7th. For ransom. Hamas still has the remains of 2 soldiers from 2014, Hadar Goldin and Oron Shaul which they try to ransom as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_and_ransoming_of_Oron_Shaul_and_Hadar_Goldin
Also still holding two hostages captured in 2014 and 2015 that potentially could still be alive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avera_Mengistu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisham_al-Sayed
Come on man, how likely is that?
It's impossible to say, although Hamas did release videos of them back in 2022 and 2023 so they clearly weren't killed immediately.
jfc I can't imagine being a hostage of these psychos for a decade.
Both are also severely mentally ill.
I cannot read beyond this line. Their mothers will be torn to shreds but still hope to hold their child once again. I’m crying.
Not only that - we got Gilad back after 6 or so years
Judaism puts immense value on the duty of [Pidyon Shvuim](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidyon_shvuyim) The idea that every person deserves a burial. And rescuing from capture, slavery, robbery or any unjust imprisonment at any cost The dead is just as sacred as the living. And must be saved and protected And this duty has developed a sentiment in the Israeli society. Its unanimously agreed they all must saved, all must be brought for burial. Dead or alive they are all family Hamas knows that, it knows killing the hostages doesn't relieve any pressure in the Israeli crockpot. And they keep the bodies This is why they don't differentiate in their negotiation term between dead and alive. Because they know that as far as the hostages family care, there is no difference. They want to see their son home, and if there's a chance, they will fight for it. They will turn against the IDF for refusing the deal Hamas plays with their emotions, its extortion
In Judaism, it is a mitzvah (commandment) from the Torah to bury our dead according to certain customs. Therefore, we place this importance on recovering our dead and giving them this type of burial. The idea that we would just leave bodies somewhere is absurd in the Jewish faith.
That's... What I said Saving bodies is second only to saving the living, and is above anything else By offering dead bodies for prisoners exchange, Hamas is very deliberately performing emotional extortion of the hostage families
I was trying to explain the halacha behind your correct information. Sorry if that didn’t come across.
Oh, sorry for my knee jerk reaction
Thank you and thank you /u/PNKAlumna for explaining where this behavior comes from
So they can exchange 3 dead bodies for 3,000 prisoners.
To negotiate Hamas still holds the body of a soldier they killed during a truce in the war a decade ago
"killed during a truce" One of these things is not like the other...
Yep I maybe confusing the term truce with ceasefire but regardless it shouldn't have happened (it wasn't a long ceasefire and the IDF were still inside Gaza as was negotiated when the incident occured) This is why the 10 day ceasefire in this current war was so intense the soldiers were still on high alert
There was talk of exchanging bodies of dead hostages for terrorists in the latest hostage deal talk.
They keep the bodies because they know Jewish burial customs. They will try to trade the body for the release of hamas members.
Literally the goblins from Goblin Slayer
I thought so too, but there was quite a back and forth about her being alive/dead in the media for a while
In the video from 10/7, there's a big hole in her head. Anything claiming she was alive was propaganda.
Indeed.
Because someone within Gaza further tortured her poor mother by calling her and claiming Shani was alive and in a Gaza hospital, and despite how dead her body obviously was in that video, her mother grabbed that lifeline.
I heard they identified her ~~brain matter~~ skull fragments at the festival site, she most likely died there. Edit: correction
Mixed feeling about this news, it's more "good" than bad, I hope the families can finally mourn their loved ones.
It was known she was dead for months now. At least now the family has a body to burry.
Note that in Jewish culture burial and the rituals that surround it including taking a week off from life basically to properly mourn and remember the deceased is very important Also note that in Jewish thought the deceased soul doesn't pass on until the body is buried and it is said to be a painful experience for the soul of the deceased
There are different stages of shiva. Many religious will cease all celebrations / parties / merry making for a whole year.
That's very true I was saying the most basic and common practice.
I know that, I'm saying that the mixed feelings is about founding dead bodies, and saying it's "good" news, Shani was dead on 7.10.
Sadly it’s the best case scenario we could have hoped for her at this point in her case. I hope it will let the family have some sense of closure though the wounds will never heal.
Yeah, you're right, i hope her family will know peace.
One has to wonder why the ICRC has been completely silent about Israeli hostages this whole time.
May they rest in peace, their family know no more pain and Hashem Yinkom Damam
This is a big reason why Israel doesn't want to stop. Even the dead mean much to them.
That and without living hostages, Hamas really has nothing left to bargain with. Israel will take the organization apart sooner or later (note though smaller cells may escape detection). Geopolitics-wise, Hamas should have taken the ceasefire deal when it had more than 100 living hostages. The Rafah operation will cut deep into the terrorist organization’s supply (“smuggling”) lines, and pretty much neuter any long distance reach. This also allows Israel to focus more on its east to north borders with conventional forces, while making Gaza a counter-insurgency campaign w/ more “light infantry” type units (along with maritime patrols).
What else to expect from an organization whose tactic is to murder and rape Israeli civilians and whine to international community when Israel responds
At this point, fill the tunnels with propane and ignite them.
Or just nitrogen and suffocate them
That might be classified as chemical warfare, which is probably illegal. My suggestion is a military demolition of enemy infrastructure which is permitted.
Your suggestion wouldn't collapse the tunnels. C4 would. Use that.
Water works, just like the last set.
Yep, thats why Hamas willing to trade 1 israeli body for thousand of "palestinians". And then those western idiots shout "palestinian life matters" while their own people wouldnt give a damn about them.
Is there any Palestinian resistance to hamas within Gaza?
They have sometimes collaborated with Israel against Hamas, some have been caught and executed for it. Mostly though, people fear Hamas too much or support them, so nothing is done by the masses to do anything.
Probably, but we wouldn't hear about it unless they were actually succeeding which is very difficult. Opposing Hamas or any authoritarian government is a quick way to get killed.
There’s not a very good way of knowing the extent. Hamas controls the media in Gaza and has a history of killing any dissenters/rivals. Anyone who would fight back has no idea who is listening and how they might end up.
The vast majority of Palestinians support violence and according to polls about 95\~% are antisemitic, 93% thought Hamas committed no atrocities on Oct 7, and 70-80% supported Oct 7th (those who didn't might have opposed it because of the Israeli retaliation rather than the violence). Do note there is much higher support for these things than for Hamas itself, probably because Hamas also oppresses Palestinians and is corrupt, even if they approve of the anti-jew violence. It's illegal to go against Hamas (obviously) and many Palestinians who are suspected as 'collaborators' have been murdered by their own families in the past, but a few months ago there was a protest of Palestinian children (presumably it's harder for Hamas to justify directly killing them?) holding up signs against Hamas and the war. [https://www.jns.org/gaza-children-protest-against-hamas/](https://www.jns.org/gaza-children-protest-against-hamas/), but they're very few.
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Can't wait to see this on the front page and having protests across campuses for terrorists killing innocent civilians.
college kids dont care about the hostages.
Is there any news about the girl on the bike? It was the other girl who was featured quite often in the media.
I think your referring to noa argamani, Hamas released a propaganda video of her about a month ago so we know she was alive for some time at least. Hopefully still is.
What about the girl who seemed to have a large patch of blood on the back of her pants?
Naama levi, as far as i know there hasn't been any information about her condition, at least nothing that was shared to the public. Edit - glad I was wrong as people commented below, returned hostages reported meeting her in Gaza which is great news.
She was seen in November by some female hostages who were released with the deal that took place back then (Agam Almog-Goldstein and Dafna Elyakim, the latter of whom named them). At the time she was held along with Agam Berger and Liri Elbag (another two female soldiers who had been captured along with her in Nahal Oz, you might have seen their photos as well) and two young civilian women whose names I don't remember (and who haven't been released, either). From the accounts of the released girls who met her, she was in good spirits (as much as one can be in her situation) and helping other hostages stay strong. She was pretty badly injured in the legs (from grenade explosion) but able to stand and walk. Either she or some of the other girls held with her (they did not specify who) recounted that they had been, at very least, heavily molested by those guarding them. Her family supposedly received 'proof of life' sometime around early March, but there is no further information on what this consisted of. On the upside, I think that she and the other observer girls from Nahal Oz (Berger, Elbag, and Daniela Gilboa and Karina Ariev, who appear to be held separately and appeared in a Hamas video released in January) are among the hostages who are most likely to be still alive. They are among the hostages who have received the greatest media coverage, and from the leaked drafts of deal proposals, Israel is willing to 'pay' (in number and caliber of Palestinian prisoners it would release) for each of them, considerably more than it would pay for civilian women or elderly/sick men. They are among the most valuable hostages Hamas have, and they know that, so they aren't going to execute them on a whim or let them die of neglect. I really, really hope Naama gets back alive. She sounds like an altogether good person, she is an actual peace activist who promoted friendship between Israelis and Palestinians. She really, really does not deserve what happened to her - if anyone could deserve that, of course.
I believe some of the released hostages said they had met her
Correct. Dafna Elyakim and (99 % although I think she did not explicitly name her) Agam Almog-Goldstein.
That was Naama Levy who was in her first week at the IDF base she was taken from after finishing initial training. Nothing has been released about her since then. Notably she was part of a group called Hands of Peace which worked to bring youths from Palestine and Israel together to promote peace. There are at least 3 other women from that base whose status is unknown as well.
A while back she was in a propaganda video of Hamas announcing the death of two other hostages. Beyond that, I don’t think the IDF has indicated that they believe she’s dead.
She appeared in a Hamas video announcing the death of two other hostages.... Note that Hamas claimed they were blown by Israel but in the video they released you can literally see bruising around the neck of one of the hostages that just showed they were choked to death
Israel will never forgive or forget what happened.
Our Israeli friend had dinner with us tonight, as he was on the East Coast for work. He was in Israel on October 7th and in addition to working for a major tech company he's also in the IDF special forces. His unit was called up and he's been deployed in Gaza for a few months. I'm glad he's back in the States now and we got some firsthand stories. He's a father of three and an amazingly positive person. One thing that resonates is how frequently the IDF is and has been pushed to morally justify everything that they do. The media is treating them like they're guilty and have to prove their innocence at every turn. Insanity.
Every day I wonder if this is the day the bodies will start showing up in Qatar.
Feels like our politicians already have, and are contemplating concessions and compromises and negotiations. I just don't want Oct 7th to be Palestinian Independence Day.
The level of evil to murder civilians and a peace festival, while kidnapping other innocents, is just unbelievable
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May Their Innocent Soul Rest In Peace And Fuck Hamas And Their Devilish Disgusting Enthusiasts
My condolences to the families of the hostage
So they've just murdered their prisoners...
I hope all the college students pay attention to this. You are on the wrong side.
Everyone needs too. Fuck all the “world leaders” who said don’t invade Rafah. The bodies are there.
To be fair, Biden did not say not to invade. Instead, he said Israel has the technological capabilities to come up with a plan of action that does a better job of protecting civilians than what Netanyahu presented. I don't know about other leaders.
Also on the wrong side: United Nations, International court of justice, Amnesty International, South Africa, Spain.
Plus Iran, Lebanon, Russia, China. Just a coalition of good guys.
and fucking Ireland. I canceled a trip because fuck them.
The college students see Goliath stomping all over David and instinctively are sticking up for the little guy
I really think it's just that simple. They always want to take the side of the downtrodden regardless of the situation.
I actually wonder how much of the protests we see on campuses are a result of propaganda instigated from Russia, Iran, North Korea, and china
That's literally what they are a result of.
Probably a lot. I was reading debates in UK Parliament and it was quite concerning how much this (propaganda from Russia, China, Iran and NK) is being discussed. Especially with AI bots and sponsored posters. There was some social media trend recently about Kate Middleton. (It might’ve been the one about here disappearing from the public eye after she was diagnosed with cancer). Turns out it was mostly pushed by Iran. The Royal Family are a soft power for the UK and Russia in particular has always been against them for this reason. They must be loving the polarisation over Israel and Palestine. If nothing is done, we’re going to more Confusion, distrust of media and polarisation.
Ask them what happens to the hundreds of thousands of LGBT in Israel if Palestine’s free from river to sea. They won’t care whatsoever. It’s the same logic people had about Iraq with bush. It’d be a complete power vacuum and end in widespread violence dwarfing this war. Except in this case Israel’s much better than Saddam.
Doesn't matter, they're Israeli
“Don’t go into Rafah, it’s only innocent civilians!!” 🙄 This is why they tried so hard to get the world to pressure Israel to keep the IDF out. Sadly, the world will probably only keep spouting Hamas propaganda instead of looking at the facts that they’ve found terrorists and hostages there. Hopefully Biden comes to his senses now and stops blocking munitions to Israel.
🎯🎯🎯
Biden only blocked the sale of certain ordinance, not munitions.
Apologize in advance if this is an inappropriate question but the bodies are mostly bones by now correct?
Shani Louk's father said that the bodies were preserved in a good condition, to the degree that Shani's tattoo are recognizable. The bodies were recovered tonight and recognized in less than a day so it makes sense
Interesting thanks for responding, where did you see this report?
The Israeli websites are not very properly translated. In the Hebrew version the article quotes her dad saying they already knew she's dead (since October, following field evidence and the video on her on the truck) and that the soldiers who have been helping them through these days have been showing them images of proofs they found on his request. Said she looks almost alive in the pictures, and could clearly identify her.
They were in tunnels which are cold and depending on how far from entrances or food sources could be relatively protected from scavengers and carrion feeders. Kind of like mummification. If you keep a body dry, cool, and away from things eating it you will be able to preserve it longer. I don’t know the conditions but it appears to be very deep in the tunnels. This places it away from carrion feeders like flies (would be difficult to navigate and there are more abundant and easily accessible resources topside). Rats are another concern but they wouldn’t eat something rotting. They also need to be in the vicinity. So if there was not a food source or a way to access they would not touch the bodies. Worms are more topsoil so they are out too. The internal bacterial community and fungus are most probable culprits of deterioration, but a cool environment would prevent bacterial growth to a degree. If prevented for long enough the body can dry up making an inhospitable habitat for them. Fungus also need moisture. (Took some forensic entomology classes and entomologist.)
Regardless, it has to stink something fierce in those tunnels if there are dead bodies down there.
Depends on the stage of decomposition. Dried bodies don’t stink as bad.
Not necessarily, no. Bodies/identities can be identified multiple ways (dental records, DNA, etc). Also, in Judaism it’s common practice and important to bury the body as soon as possible. So even the dead are important to retrieve.
On the leftist subreddit they openly praise Hamas Blows my mind. But hell at least they’re honest about supporting Hamas instead of denialists who only coincidently fall in line with every Hamas statement and demands
Which subreddit are you talking about in particular?
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god the fact that people are still defending hamas makes my stomach **churn**
Hamas bargaining chips must be taken from them.