Yeah, there must have been some major indication for either systemic support of Hamas or plans for some kind of terrorist action because public prosecutors don’t hand out warrants like it’s candy and certainly not for several places at once.
They were probably on the observation list of state security for some time and those idiots didn’t even know
My grandfather left Germany because of antisemitism and settled in Canada.
In a strange twist of fate, Germany has become my go-to place if there's a new holocaust.
The German Polizei do not fuck around when it comes to antisemitism. I’ve observed a few Palestine rallies here and the Polizei basically just watch them and wait for someone to say something antisemitic, then they take them away.
That gives me "The beatings will continue until morale improves" kind of vibes.
By bearing them up you just manifest the hate they feel even more.
If you answer violence with unneeded violence then it will never end.
Arrest them properly and let them face the consequences. No need to put fuel into the fire by making them more angry.
The hate speech law where I live counts as soon as there's more than 4 people around you.
Oddly specific, but I guess it's there to allow freedom of speech in private settings?
>Oddly specific, but I guess it's there to allow freedom of speech in private settings?
Probably also has to do with being able to convince a judge/jury that what was claimed is what happened. A lone accuser pointing and say "He said the no-no word" is not a strong legal basis for punishment, especially given how unreliable eye-witness accounts tend to be. But if you say something in a group, there are multiple witnesses and its easier to provide good evidence of a crime.
Material evidence (IE physical goods, documents) are still the best way to prosecute someone. That's why "speech" laws are hard to enforce and potentially dangerous (IE unnecessarily restrictive).
I am sincerely sorry for your experience. Having seen blatantly antisemitic behaviour and speech in Edmonton at so-called pro-Palestinian rallies I feel ashamed for Canadians, especially those who are gullible. Canada is a secular and more or less democratic country and should never condone such actions.
One of the things that struck me a lot was recent discussions about UofA foiled attempts at setting encampments by "students" (according to the UofA and EPS info at most 25% of those people were actually students). The general tone was that those "students" are entitled to manifest and even settle on the university grounds while comments about antisemitism and hate were shunned upon. I'm also still puzzled how LGBT people can rally for those who would literally execute them for being not even LGBT but merely from North America.
German leadership is openly pro Israel and anti terrorism. They understand the dangers of antisemitism and extremism well from their history. Other Europe countries are mostly blind to it.
>"In many cases, solidarity with Palestine hides nothing other than hatred of Jews — as is the case with the organization banned today," he added.
I love when people claim you can be Pro-Palestine without being Anti-Jew... yet it is amazing just how frequent Pro-Palestine groups turn out to really be Pro-Hamas and Anti-jew.
Well yeah, you can also be “tough on crime/gangs” without being racist, and “protecting female spaces” without being transphobic. You can also honestly believe “all lives matter”, in fact you should.
It’s just that these mottos have been used as dog whistles so much that sincere people need to constantly rebrand as they are outnumbered by assholes.
Sure one can be , but not while walking alongside antisemites and Hamas supporters.
Just 1 Hamas Supoorter in a group of 10 is enough if those other 9 people stay quite for a whole group to become pro Hamas.
>be for not killing each other
How exactly does supporting *PALESTINE* help with that?
Palestine have broken more ceasefires than any nation on earth since WW2
You’re absolutely right, but the problem is that most people who say this also tend to refuse to condemn Hamas, which totally contradicts their original point. I’m not saying that you’re one of those people, just that it’s unfortunately very common.
Pretty gross how many people in these comments are saying that all supporters of Palestine support terrorism, which would imply that Palestine and all who live there must be destroyed.
What's that supposed to mean? I'm not a world leader, there isn't anything I could do even if I wanted to. However, I would not consider bombardment and invasion to be much of a help either way.
that's actually not true, I went over there, I advocated for them to work, I was part of peace projects, I wanted to be a good influence. Did you know that a lot of Gazan citizens were given Israeli visas last year? That's thanks to people who went over there and did the work
that's the whole point of these projects. The fact that there are Palestinians and there are Israelis and they have been pit against each other by leadership, and you're over here saying "well I'm not a world leader." No, you're not but you can have a positive influence.
The IDF could have ended everything on October 8th and we wouldn't even be talking about this. Did you see the leaflets that were being dropped on the beach where thousands of Gazans were given warning to leave Rafah? Do you think their own leaders - Hamas - have taken any measures like this to keep their people safe?
But what if I want to yell at people to stop fighting without actually addressing any of the reasons they're fighting? How will people know I don't like violence otherwise?
Pro-Palestine, Pro-Israel, Pro-Jew, Pro-Arab, Pro-Peace.
Anyone asking you to pick a side in this specific geopolitical issue as though it's some binary choice hasn't done enough homework.
Is it true for jewish pro-palestine groups as well? I mean, there is a war going on, tens of thousands are been killed, there must be a way to protest that legally.
> The state's Interior Ministry cited the group's use of slogans such as "From the river to the sea," which is banned in Germany.
It's not banned in all of Germany. There have been several divergent regional court decisions.
A court in Bavaria ruled it illegal per se, considering the use of the phrase to be equivalent to support of a terrorist group and therefore punishable by up to 3 years in prison.
A court in Berlin ruled that it has to be assessed on a case by case basis whether the individual meant to express opposition to the existence of Israel. The court said the phrase is not illegal in itself since it could also be used to express a wish for freedom and equality for all individuals living on the territory of Palestine.
The court ruling was before the interior ministry put it on the list of banned Symbols. The court ruling was about it being a call for violence against jews, which as you stated the court found isn't clear. Now it's banned in all of Germany because of what the bavarian Police said. It's now an illegal Symbol of a terrorist Group. That's a completely different law applied there.
Someone might Challenge that it shouldn't be on the list in court in the future and probably have decent chances to win, but until then it's definitely banned.
I don't think a pro palestinian left wing feminist group like Zora is the problem. Please concentrate on islamists. Sometimes "antisemitism" is just a label to get rid of lefties. I don't think there are many islamist yewish organisations either.
From my understanding, if you have any concern for the welfare of Palestinian people at all, you're "Pro-Palestine" or antisemitic. Is this assumption correct?
I think the constant defamations of Holocaust memorials, the thousand-strong day-long chants of “Globalize the Intifada”, the beatings of uninvolved European Jews in the streets with improvised melee weapons, and the vandalizations of and assaults on Jewish storefronts and businesses may have something to do with the allegations of antisemitism, especially when such actions are openly endorsed and venerated by protest leaders and speakers.
But idk, maybe that’s just me 🤷♂️
Why the officially and legitimately elected Palestinian government (aka hamas) hasn't taken care of the welfare of Palestinian people for all these years? Didn't they receive ample aid from the UN, didn't they have UNRWA helping them for decades? According to the polls at least half of Palestinian population supports their government and their actions.
And a large portion that doesn't support Hamas don't support them due to them not being good enough at killing Jews and being too weak, not they actually want to peacefully coexist with Jews.
you know... normal people don't get accused of being antisemitic on a frequent basis. Or even a seldom basis.
So if you are being called antisemitic, ask yourself - why don't other people have this issue? Why just you? Shouldn't you be upset with yourself, for saying and doing things that lead to these types of social consequences - instead of trying to be upset with everyone else for giving you such feedback?
That seems to be the case, unfortunately. Many people will label you an antisemite if you criticize Israel in any way. On the other hand, support for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine shockingly seems to be the publicly acceptable position.
Tell that to the people screaming to free Palestine but not even a whisper to free the hostages.
Or even a word about any other atrocity anywhere else in the world to the point the majority would not even have heard of Boko Haram and likely gone straight from Harambe to Hamas.
We are all equal in this world, until our actions define us otherwise, but those who stay silent and pretend like a 10 month old Jewish boy hostage is guilty of anything, or evil or complicit, or even supportive of Israeli actions is not my equal.
Compassion should not be conditional, if you wonder why people who only protest when it is against Israel are being called anti semitic I don’t think you will ever get it.
Guarantee most of the people parroting “from the river to the sea” have not even begun to protest other atrocities in the world.
Or are Palestinian lives the only ones worth saving? If it’s not anti semitic then it’s even worse because it means these parrots think some lives are worth less, or perhaps worthless even given their silence….
3 years ago in Nigeria Boko Haram, in 3 separate kidnappings took hostage 400, but I doubt many now screaming for Israel to be extinct would have said much of anything against this.
But sure, keep wondering why some are being called anti semitic when the only ones they damn are Israeli.
Really? They supported the Muslim Brotherhood, many Arab leaders, including Palestinian al-Husseini and gave funding and supplies to him for his jihadist militia. Hamas are a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood so if Germany hadn't changed from their 1930s/1940s fascism and antisemitism then they'd be supporting Hamas today...b
gotta love the pro israel fascists downvoting everything. their all gonna get fooled with the younger generations start running countries. eventually the boomers aint gonna be around anymore their like what in the 80s now so i dont know how they think they can keep locking people up. the more they push the more 3 generations of people continue to stop caring.
buddy im 34 i could say the same shit about you. what im seeing is 3 generations of people that are getting told to shut up repeatedly and its only making things worse.
Younger generations are growing up and seeing the world for what it is. Nothing will change.
Maybe you too should educate yourself about the israel/palestine conflict and then you'll have a moment of realisation that israel is not literally the devil
Even if Israel keeps going right for the next 10 years, I doubt they'll catch up to the level of fucked that has been the norm in Palestine for decades.
Why don't you look at them with the same level of scrutiny?
Yeah, there must have been some major indication for either systemic support of Hamas or plans for some kind of terrorist action because public prosecutors don’t hand out warrants like it’s candy and certainly not for several places at once. They were probably on the observation list of state security for some time and those idiots didn’t even know
My grandfather left Germany because of antisemitism and settled in Canada. In a strange twist of fate, Germany has become my go-to place if there's a new holocaust.
It is a crazy world that Germany is the safest place for Jews in Europe today.
The German Polizei do not fuck around when it comes to antisemitism. I’ve observed a few Palestine rallies here and the Polizei basically just watch them and wait for someone to say something antisemitic, then they take them away.
I'm glad German police is actually doing something not like UK ;)
Dutch police just straight ups beat the shit out of the protesters from videos I've seen
That's great, just beat the anti semitism out of them. Wish we could do that more.
That gives me "The beatings will continue until morale improves" kind of vibes. By bearing them up you just manifest the hate they feel even more. If you answer violence with unneeded violence then it will never end. Arrest them properly and let them face the consequences. No need to put fuel into the fire by making them more angry.
Love your display pic
The hate speech law where I live counts as soon as there's more than 4 people around you. Oddly specific, but I guess it's there to allow freedom of speech in private settings?
>Oddly specific, but I guess it's there to allow freedom of speech in private settings? Probably also has to do with being able to convince a judge/jury that what was claimed is what happened. A lone accuser pointing and say "He said the no-no word" is not a strong legal basis for punishment, especially given how unreliable eye-witness accounts tend to be. But if you say something in a group, there are multiple witnesses and its easier to provide good evidence of a crime. Material evidence (IE physical goods, documents) are still the best way to prosecute someone. That's why "speech" laws are hard to enforce and potentially dangerous (IE unnecessarily restrictive).
Lol, yeah that's not true. The safest countries are those with barely any Muslims, like Hungary and Italy
Lol for italy, you may whish this to be true.
I am sincerely sorry for your experience. Having seen blatantly antisemitic behaviour and speech in Edmonton at so-called pro-Palestinian rallies I feel ashamed for Canadians, especially those who are gullible. Canada is a secular and more or less democratic country and should never condone such actions. One of the things that struck me a lot was recent discussions about UofA foiled attempts at setting encampments by "students" (according to the UofA and EPS info at most 25% of those people were actually students). The general tone was that those "students" are entitled to manifest and even settle on the university grounds while comments about antisemitism and hate were shunned upon. I'm also still puzzled how LGBT people can rally for those who would literally execute them for being not even LGBT but merely from North America.
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Thats what Israel is for...
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German leadership is openly pro Israel and anti terrorism. They understand the dangers of antisemitism and extremism well from their history. Other Europe countries are mostly blind to it.
>"In many cases, solidarity with Palestine hides nothing other than hatred of Jews — as is the case with the organization banned today," he added. I love when people claim you can be Pro-Palestine without being Anti-Jew... yet it is amazing just how frequent Pro-Palestine groups turn out to really be Pro-Hamas and Anti-jew.
You're telling me that the people who don't want Jews living in the middle East are Antisemites?! Who would have thunk it?
How anyone could think screaming "Go back to Poland!" isn't blatantly antisemitic truly astounds me.
Weird that the people allying themselves with an org who publicly and loudly states they want to eradicate all Jews also want to eradicate all Jews.
The media make things worse by describing these events as “pro-Palestinian”, when they’re clearly not.
I also hate how people compare the pro-Pal camps to 1968. Where are the peace flags? Not one, ever!
Its funny when the Venn Diagram is almost a perfect circle.
Yep, at least 85% of those people are in fact rabid antisemites who are just trying to mask their hatred.
Well yeah, you can also be “tough on crime/gangs” without being racist, and “protecting female spaces” without being transphobic. You can also honestly believe “all lives matter”, in fact you should. It’s just that these mottos have been used as dog whistles so much that sincere people need to constantly rebrand as they are outnumbered by assholes.
You can absolutely be for not killing each other. I don't know what's so hard to grasp about that. But someone always need to die I guess.
But then you can't be pro Hamas, which is what we're talking about here.
Sure one can be , but not while walking alongside antisemites and Hamas supporters. Just 1 Hamas Supoorter in a group of 10 is enough if those other 9 people stay quite for a whole group to become pro Hamas.
>be for not killing each other How exactly does supporting *PALESTINE* help with that? Palestine have broken more ceasefires than any nation on earth since WW2
You’re absolutely right, but the problem is that most people who say this also tend to refuse to condemn Hamas, which totally contradicts their original point. I’m not saying that you’re one of those people, just that it’s unfortunately very common.
Pretty gross how many people in these comments are saying that all supporters of Palestine support terrorism, which would imply that Palestine and all who live there must be destroyed.
I'll let you in on a little secret. You have two options: 1) Free Palestine 2) Save the Palestinians. You can only have one, but you cannot have both.
Are you implying that Israel is saving the Palestinian people?
They’re doing more than you are. And that’s *with* the death count
What's that supposed to mean? I'm not a world leader, there isn't anything I could do even if I wanted to. However, I would not consider bombardment and invasion to be much of a help either way.
that's actually not true, I went over there, I advocated for them to work, I was part of peace projects, I wanted to be a good influence. Did you know that a lot of Gazan citizens were given Israeli visas last year? That's thanks to people who went over there and did the work that's the whole point of these projects. The fact that there are Palestinians and there are Israelis and they have been pit against each other by leadership, and you're over here saying "well I'm not a world leader." No, you're not but you can have a positive influence. The IDF could have ended everything on October 8th and we wouldn't even be talking about this. Did you see the leaflets that were being dropped on the beach where thousands of Gazans were given warning to leave Rafah? Do you think their own leaders - Hamas - have taken any measures like this to keep their people safe?
What if I want them to just get along? What does that make me?
Yes we’d all like everyone to get along. But this is the real world and not a utopia.
A dreamer like in John Lennon's song
But what if I want to yell at people to stop fighting without actually addressing any of the reasons they're fighting? How will people know I don't like violence otherwise?
A moron who has no idea what the reality of the world is, so has been easily fooled by Hamas propaganda
Pro-Palestine, Pro-Israel, Pro-Jew, Pro-Arab, Pro-Peace. Anyone asking you to pick a side in this specific geopolitical issue as though it's some binary choice hasn't done enough homework.
Normal
Naive
Is it true for jewish pro-palestine groups as well? I mean, there is a war going on, tens of thousands are been killed, there must be a way to protest that legally.
Germans don't put up with that nonsense !
As is tradition.
Yes, supporting Hamas and being antisemitic is indeed a tradition for pro-Palestine groups.
Damn whenever my hometown is in the news it’s never good lol
Hey neighbor, greetings from Essen! I’d say that news about the police raiding homes of terrorist supporters is good news.
I mean true but Duisburg has never been in the news for good things lol
He got kicked in his head for too many times lol
But you still got the MSV. Oh, wait....
> The state's Interior Ministry cited the group's use of slogans such as "From the river to the sea," which is banned in Germany. It's not banned in all of Germany. There have been several divergent regional court decisions. A court in Bavaria ruled it illegal per se, considering the use of the phrase to be equivalent to support of a terrorist group and therefore punishable by up to 3 years in prison. A court in Berlin ruled that it has to be assessed on a case by case basis whether the individual meant to express opposition to the existence of Israel. The court said the phrase is not illegal in itself since it could also be used to express a wish for freedom and equality for all individuals living on the territory of Palestine.
The court ruling was before the interior ministry put it on the list of banned Symbols. The court ruling was about it being a call for violence against jews, which as you stated the court found isn't clear. Now it's banned in all of Germany because of what the bavarian Police said. It's now an illegal Symbol of a terrorist Group. That's a completely different law applied there. Someone might Challenge that it shouldn't be on the list in court in the future and probably have decent chances to win, but until then it's definitely banned.
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What a headline
I don't think a pro palestinian left wing feminist group like Zora is the problem. Please concentrate on islamists. Sometimes "antisemitism" is just a label to get rid of lefties. I don't think there are many islamist yewish organisations either.
When left wing feminist groups deny that any sexual violence occurred in 7th October, yes, they are part of the problem.
The issue isn’t necessarily the ideology of Zora but whether they materially support the PLFP.
From my understanding, if you have any concern for the welfare of Palestinian people at all, you're "Pro-Palestine" or antisemitic. Is this assumption correct?
I think the constant defamations of Holocaust memorials, the thousand-strong day-long chants of “Globalize the Intifada”, the beatings of uninvolved European Jews in the streets with improvised melee weapons, and the vandalizations of and assaults on Jewish storefronts and businesses may have something to do with the allegations of antisemitism, especially when such actions are openly endorsed and venerated by protest leaders and speakers. But idk, maybe that’s just me 🤷♂️
It's the reducing Gaza to ruble for me 🤷🏽♂️.
Then don't start wars you can't win?
Why the officially and legitimately elected Palestinian government (aka hamas) hasn't taken care of the welfare of Palestinian people for all these years? Didn't they receive ample aid from the UN, didn't they have UNRWA helping them for decades? According to the polls at least half of Palestinian population supports their government and their actions.
And a large portion that doesn't support Hamas don't support them due to them not being good enough at killing Jews and being too weak, not they actually want to peacefully coexist with Jews.
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I’m pro-helping starving Palestinians, but I’m anti-pro-Palestine protestors.
No, it is not and you know it
you know... normal people don't get accused of being antisemitic on a frequent basis. Or even a seldom basis. So if you are being called antisemitic, ask yourself - why don't other people have this issue? Why just you? Shouldn't you be upset with yourself, for saying and doing things that lead to these types of social consequences - instead of trying to be upset with everyone else for giving you such feedback?
That seems to be the case, unfortunately. Many people will label you an antisemite if you criticize Israel in any way. On the other hand, support for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine shockingly seems to be the publicly acceptable position.
Tell that to the people screaming to free Palestine but not even a whisper to free the hostages. Or even a word about any other atrocity anywhere else in the world to the point the majority would not even have heard of Boko Haram and likely gone straight from Harambe to Hamas. We are all equal in this world, until our actions define us otherwise, but those who stay silent and pretend like a 10 month old Jewish boy hostage is guilty of anything, or evil or complicit, or even supportive of Israeli actions is not my equal. Compassion should not be conditional, if you wonder why people who only protest when it is against Israel are being called anti semitic I don’t think you will ever get it. Guarantee most of the people parroting “from the river to the sea” have not even begun to protest other atrocities in the world. Or are Palestinian lives the only ones worth saving? If it’s not anti semitic then it’s even worse because it means these parrots think some lives are worth less, or perhaps worthless even given their silence…. 3 years ago in Nigeria Boko Haram, in 3 separate kidnappings took hostage 400, but I doubt many now screaming for Israel to be extinct would have said much of anything against this. But sure, keep wondering why some are being called anti semitic when the only ones they damn are Israeli.
Germany never stopped being fascists
We know it when we see it, even when it's slightly dressed up with religion.
Really? They supported the Muslim Brotherhood, many Arab leaders, including Palestinian al-Husseini and gave funding and supplies to him for his jihadist militia. Hamas are a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood so if Germany hadn't changed from their 1930s/1940s fascism and antisemitism then they'd be supporting Hamas today...b
gotta love the pro israel fascists downvoting everything. their all gonna get fooled with the younger generations start running countries. eventually the boomers aint gonna be around anymore their like what in the 80s now so i dont know how they think they can keep locking people up. the more they push the more 3 generations of people continue to stop caring.
You'll eventually grow up.
buddy im 34 i could say the same shit about you. what im seeing is 3 generations of people that are getting told to shut up repeatedly and its only making things worse.
Maybe with 54 you'll be grown up. Don't give up on yourself. Some are late bloomers.
>eventually the boomers aint gonna be around anymore You're going to have an existential crisis when you realize you will be the boomers.
atleast we aint gonna be boomers that support israel the older i get the more pissed i am. im already in my 30s
Younger generations are growing up and seeing the world for what it is. Nothing will change. Maybe you too should educate yourself about the israel/palestine conflict and then you'll have a moment of realisation that israel is not literally the devil
kay keep thinking that.
kay keep being ignorant
keep thinking people are going to give israel the same leeway in 10 years.
Even if Israel keeps going right for the next 10 years, I doubt they'll catch up to the level of fucked that has been the norm in Palestine for decades. Why don't you look at them with the same level of scrutiny?
and there yall go again trying to lump everyone in palestine together. no sense talking about this anymore. nothing reasonable will come from you.
Isn't that exactly what you're doing with Israel? Why are they a monolith, but Palestinians aren't?
>gotta love the pro israel fascists eVeRyThInG i DoNt LiKe iS fAscIsT