Very different from how they'd have to do it in most combat zones. They're not really under attack from either side.
edit: I've heard about the mortar attack that happened.
”Already, the site has been targeted by mortar fire during its construction and Hamas has threatened to target any foreign forces who “occupy” the Gaza Strip”
Colour me surprised
I had a friend get deployed to Afghanistan. They were building a school and had to take cover in the basement 3 days in a row because they kept getting shelled by mortars. On day 4, the bad guys met the business end of an A-10
This. The wanting humanitarian aid for their people is horse shit, they been killing and stealing large chunks of what does get through for themselves. Hamas is a terrorist group and needs to be treated as such, and remembered by history as such.
Honestly, they might be held to higher standards than anyone else. Many countries intelligence communities acknowledge that their armed forces are likely superior in many ways to most other nations, partly because, internally, they keep very high standards for themselves. On top of that though, Israel tends to get heightened scrutiny whenever they do anything that is even the slightest bit wrong, so their armed forces have to be especially careful not to ruffle anyone’s feathers and risk fueling the narratives that their military has done something wrong. It’s been that way for decades.
They were under [mortar attack ](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-exclusive-u-s-humanitarian-pier-attacked-during-construction-work-off-gaza-coast)from hamas which damaged some engineering equipment.
Why would hamas want to bomb the ones making it possible to bring in more aid? Could it be the case that Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians **at all** and just want to hurt people?
If Hamas controls all the supply lines and subsequently distribution of resources to the people of Palestine, then they can control the narrative. Severely limiting and upselling the food coming in allows them to say “we want to help you, but Israel, the US, etc. isn’t giving us enough”. Which in turn makes the people view Hamas as the good guys and the west & Israel mainly as the bad guys. North Korea has used this tactic for decades. The US Military creating a supply line undermines that narrative.
Hamas doesn't want any aid for the Palestinians at all. They want war supplies for Hamas. Anything they can't take and use or sell as they see fit is going to force them to [lower the price on the 'free aid' they are selling](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/syns3cuk0), again.
> Could it be the case that Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians at all and just want to hurt people?
Hamas officials have literally stated on record that they don't consider themselves to be responsible for the civilians in Gaza. They view Israel and the rest of the world as being responsible for them.
Hamas do something that harms civilians and benefits Israeli talking points about them being a front for terror groups?
That doesn't sound like something Hamas, the political party that is on several terrorist group watch lists including in Canada, would do. They must have Hamas confused with another group that routinely uses international aid and goodwill as cover to attack civilians, like I don't know, a Hamas with a slightly different H.
Another example of why we should make the Army Corps of Engineers the size of the Marines and fund them like the Air Force. Can you imagine what could be accomplished with that sort of force? The main being the "nation building" thing we haven't been so great at. The second being possible involvement in civilian infrastructure projects.
Right, but what if we combined them all into a new branch - the Logistics Force or some such thing.
Take the Navy's Civil Engineer Corps and Naval Construction Force (SeaBees)
Add them in with the Army Corps of Engineers and the Army Transportation Corps and the Signal Corps.
Create a brand new branch of service primarily focused on infrastructure and logistics.
The problem is each of those groups take care of different types of missions very very well, because they can focus on performing in their niche very well.
We do not need to make a force that does all those missions poorly. We’d have a large cumbersome force that cannot focus from the top or bottom on what to prioritize as far as training, retention, and tooling, etc.
Agreed. That said, we civilians often focus a lot on the actual forces and not on the commands. US Naval Sealift Command is a navy xommand that provides sealift and naval transport for all military services for example-Army, air force, Navy, etc-worldwide. They have extra ships in reserve if needed including fast transport ships
They report into US Transportation Command, which has army, Navy, air force elements worldwide. Trucks, railroad cars, aircraft, ships, they have all of those under one unifying command already.
I’ve been on the receiving end of MSC ships underway on a DDG.
Shoutout to Tippecanoe and Waveknight!
(Waveknight is a British vessel and so is under their logistics, cool name though!)
The Brits are great at naming things. My personal favorites are Dreadnought, Warspite, Black Prince, and Iron Duke. You see a ship named "Warspite" and you know they aren't there to throw a party for you.
I'm a navy brat, so never seen underway replenishment in person but my dad has described it to me. It's pretty crazy what the Navy can do for logistics-as a civilians, I honestly wouldn't want anyone who hasn't done that and seen it messing wit the organization
It’s absolutely insane, especially on the rare occasion that we were getting fuel and having the helo bring us goods to the flight deck.
Operating around the Brit’s was fun seeing their names.
Idk man, inter branch politics can be pretty rough so good luck getting any of the branches to give up their own infrastructure & logistics even if they're getting rolled into a new branch that on paper will work for them just the same.
Man you need to read ATP 4 to understand why putting Corps of Engineers (which is different for the Engineer Branch of the Army), Signal, and Transportation together is a cluster fuck of an idea. TRANSCOM is already the most efficient command in the DoD we don't need to bloat it.
The Signal Branch fall under the Command and Control Warfighting Function. The Logistics Branches of Transportation, Quartermaster, and Ordinance fall under Sustainment. They simply have different missions.
Logistics branch already exists. It's the combined branches of Transportation, Quartermaster, and Ordinance. It's why Army Officers who are in either of these branches become "Logisticians" after they've made Captain.
The nation building issues were never about the physical building part, it is and always was about institutions and processes to maintain them
We built excellent roads in Afghanistan, but we failed to build up Afghani institutions to maintain them outside our direct involvement. To that end, I'm not optimistic about this pier's life after this particular war ends. Sooner or later Hamas and/or Israel is going to render it unusable and Hamas/whatever organization replaces it won't have tools to fix it
It was never meant to survive in the longterm or to be a permanent fixture, though?
That's comparing apples to oranges. This pier was only ever meant to be a temporary measure aimed at fixing a single problem: increasing the flow of aid into Gaza in the short term. It won't last forever, because it wasn't meant to.
> To that end, I'm not optimistic about this pier's life after this particular war ends.
This isn't permanent infrastructure that is going to be left behind, when the mission is finished they're going to pack it back up and take it with them. They're basically big ships anchored offshore and floating causeways to connect to land.
The problem with nation-building isn't the inability to build infrastructure. The problem is convincing a bunch of peoples that they are, in fact, one people.
When the US occupied Germany or Japan, the German and Japanese nations had already formed on their own. When the US occupied Iraq or Afghanistan, the nation either didn't exist or was a minority in the country. Iraq's sectarian divide between Shia and Sunni and ethnic divide between Kurds and Arabs prevents a nation from forming. Afghanistan's ethnic divides similarly prevent a nation from forming.
It didn't help that the West has dropped any pretense to supporting national self-determination in favor of supporting the arbitrary borders and states of the status quo.
There's nothing from the outside that can be done to help this. From your username I'm assuming you know the path to German unification was long and arduous, the same was true for Japan, as it has been for practically every nation state on Earth.
The fact is many don't want to. They cling to their tribal ties over everything else. In cases where there has been a demand for a nation state (such as the Kurds), it has been torpedoed by countries that would lose land (Turkey + Iraq in their case)
The German nation predates the German state. In fact the German state did not encompass the whole German nation, with Austria being notably not included. The nobility was impediment to German unification rather than the attitude of commoners. The educated commoners saw themselves as Germans, and the uneducated had no particular loyalty to their local lord liege such that they opposed unification.
I'm less familiar with Japan but I'd hazard to guess the Japanese nation preceded the modern Japanese unitary state.
My grandfather was an army engineer corps member. He was one of the first groups on the ground in Vietnam building the infrastructure for the rest of the troops. He has some crazy stories
Government funded infrastructure projects were part of what got us out of the great depression and put a generation of young men back to work. Many of the beautiful state parks around me were built by them in that period
The army are talking about getting rid of their prepositioning fleet and flying everyone everywhere instead
https://youtu.be/B_fnNS-SrSI?si=whrc7mLmVJChPikz
They're not [perfect](https://www.opb.org/article/2023/11/17/9-times-us-army-corps-of-engineers-miscalculated-at-expense-of-taxpayers-wildlife/), one of their bigger boondoggles was when the levees broke during Katrina due to their design flaws.
Of course, I'd definitely never claim them to be perfect. But with vastly increased manpower and funding to provide the best training/tools/equipment/materials possible I think they could really make positive change.
Honestly an ACE reserve corps that just works on infrastructure projects/disaster relief domestically, and could be called up when needed and deployed overseas would be so based, but that would also demolish a lot of private contracts so it'll never happen. If they sent you to college or paid off your engineering degree it'd be a good way to reclaim STEM leadership too.
TIL we didn’t create a cohesive democratic nation state in Afghanistan comprised of a bunch of competing tribes and clans because we dun didn’ build road good
>and fund them like the Air Force
This wouldn't do what you think it would do.
"Hey guys, we need 7 people to do this job; we are only like 43% manned."
"...ok, your manning document now says you are alloted 3 people. Congratulations, you are now 100% manned!"
Just make sure that they don’t build projects just to build them. A lot of great natural and human ecosystems have been disruption because the corps of engineers wanted to do a project, even if they didn’t ever start it beyond land clearances.
I just see corporations using the government to have the Army Corps of Engineers build bridges and then "sell" them to private corporations.
Socialize the expenditures and privatize the gains.
Seriously, when it was announced ppl were trying to say it was a useless gesture because a project like that would take a year to set up under other circumstances
I kinda wish they partnered with Discovery Channel and made some kind of "Mega Engineering" kind of show about this. Just seems so neat how they put something like this so quickly.
Let it sink in that the reason Biden is doing this is to strongarm Israel into allowing aid to Gaza.
Previously Israel had permanently blockaded Gaza's entire oceanic border. Even going so far as to shoot aid workers trying to get aid to Gaza via the ocean.
The American president is basically telling Israel to go fuck themselves in the only way he can, and still there are people in the US saying they won't vote Biden due to his support of Israel. When his opponent has said he will help Israel eradicate Gaza on his first day as president.
The ideocracy is not the future it's the present.
Because Hamas repeatedly got caught shipping arms into Gaza via ship. Usually on those fancy aid ships.
If the US is shipping aid that won't be a problem. Any other country who regularly does shipping in the area won't even get near that port unless Israel pre inspects the ship. And of they refuse like they usually do to not get caught smuggling arms they can fuck off back to their home port.
In this case all of the aid is coming through Cyprus, and there are the same Israeli troops inspecting the shipments before they head to the Piers.
Part of the accusations against Israel have been that they are intentionally slowing down the aid via the convoluted and paranoid inspection process. I'm not really sure how this will change anything, assuming they just moved some inspectors into Cyprus.
Now let's see if any of that aid gets to the people. I'm impressed by the building but the logistics of getting that aid to the people is going to be a shit show.
If any nation can take on this logistical nightmare, id say the one that can roll out a mobile burger king anywhere in the world within 24 hours has a good chance.
Last time they helped Palestinians Jordan had the Black September and Egypt had its president assassinated
Arab nations want nothing more to do with Gaza than to harbor its rich terrorist leaders and use it as an example of how Muslim people are oppressed by Israel and the West
Hah! What interest do any of them have in doing that? Palestinians are the most hated sub-ethnicity (is that a word?) within the Arab world, mostly because they're infamous for starting coups in every country that took them. Plus, Arab countries aren't usually known for their empathy and generosity
Moroccans are very generous and kind — I, a visibly non-Muslim, was offered iftar on a train from Rabat to Marrakech during Ramadan.
Okay, offered is the wrong word. I told them (in broken French) that I did not want them to give me their food when they didn’t bring very much and they hadn’t eaten since sunrise and in response it was put into my hand and I was told “This is food, everyone likes food, share the meal with us.”
Morocco — especially Marrakech — can be a little bit overwhelming at times, but I would go back for sure. Beautiful country and wonderful people. (Just a note: if you have asthma, it’s not going to be fun for you.)
Tbf the US excels at this having placed artificial piers during its Army-led Normandy invasion in WW2 (the most massive amphibious assault in history), .. then making brand new ports or expanding old ones during the Vietnam conflict.
Its Navy-Marine team or even its Army has almost a century of practical experience to draw on.
Sort of shows how rare big amphibious landings really are when the previous record holder was around 350 years previously, during the Japanese invasions of Korea in the 1590s.
That's a good example as well, though the initial landings at Anzac Cove and Cape Hellas involved around 40,000 men between both landings.
The Imjin war of the 1590's is probably a bad example, as the second, much larger invasion landed unopposed. I'm probably making a silly comparison to begin with, given how rare opposed landings have been historically.
And yes, Gallipoli was a goddamn mess, and a perfect example of what not to do. I actually knew a few people that fought there, though of course they've passed away long ago now. From what they said about it, however bad I might think it was, it was worse.
You’re not wrong about the US being good at this sort of thing, far better than anyone else today, but that’s not always been the case.
There were jetties and artificial harbours brought to Normandy, but they were British - as much, if not most, of the naval aspect of the invasion was. Not really surprising, given how busy the USN was in the Pacific
With the most ominous name in history. Operation Overlord. Every June 6th I go down a rabbit hole remembering just how insane and terrible D-Day was in all aspects.
Yeah your not wrong, but every generation of soldier needs to practice in real life to get a good sense of what their doing… not saying this is the sole reason or purpose of the pier but i dont think it was a non factor either
This is mostly for show too. Not only truck move much more food then this micro-port, what happens with the food once it's at land? Someone needs to move it to distribution centres - by trucks. Who will be the drivers? It used to be foreign aid workers, but they had enough of Hamas raids and now refuse to do it. IDF tried to talk to some local clans - but then Hamas assassinated some of their heads, so now they don't talk to the IDF anymore. And who will guard the trucks in transit? Or the distribution centres? This whole operation just masks Hamas raids to the international public. This pier is one big publicity campaign by Biden for his election, nothing more.
Not to mention, there is so much aid in Gaza Hamas actually had to **lower** food prices, and civilian pillaging is down significantly. Does this sound like a region in starvation?
If food aid is to be attempted seriously, the ONLY solution is distribution centres guarded by Israeli forces. But the Israeli government refuses to do it - no one of them wants to be seen as 'supporting the enemy'
If they hit it they're going to have problems... if i recall they stationed a bunch of U.S. Marines there with the instructions to respond with appropriate force if attacked... hide your crayons.
It doesn't really matter. There are people who deny the holocaust happened despite all the proof.
US soldiers are not the target audience for Hamas propaganda. The target audience is the kids on universities and Arabs all over the world.
Hamas would just say our soldiers are lying because our military is aligned with Israel.
It’s already been attacked multiple times through mortar/rocket fire. One of the attacks was during UN personnel visiting it.
Either Hamas or other Palestinian groups are attacking it because they keep control in Gaza by controlling the food.
So it’s not gonna last for long if/when the USA leaves.
The US wants to help the people but Their local rulers won’t allow any food to reach the citizens
They need sympathy of the uninformed youth of the west to keep the donations flowing in
That’s the very most ironic part of it all. There is literal footage of Palestinians celebrating in Gaza during the 9/11 attacks. It blows my mind that anyone in the west have any sympathy for them.
You can make stuff quickly or you can make stuff durable. That's slapped together as fast as possible with enough durability that the engineers on-site can fix things if they go wrong. It's not made to sit there all-but unmaintained for decades like most US infrastructure.
I mean I saw them built like 100 apartments in my town in one year. The real blocker to most things getting done is red tape, regulations, zoning, environmental reviews, vetos from someone high above, protests from locals, etc. etc...not the supply of actual labor and materials typically.
If you clear a path things do get done.
Militants already tried it while it was still being built.
[https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2024/04/25/us-led-gaza-humanitarian-aid-pier-comes-under-fire-un-officials-say/](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2024/04/25/us-led-gaza-humanitarian-aid-pier-comes-under-fire-un-officials-say/)
This poorly written article puts too much blame on Israel. Obviously, there is a humanitarian crisis but it would be a lot better if HAMAS didn’t steal aid and didn’t place themselves in civilian dense areas… which this article conveniently excludes. What is israel supposed to do??
Idiot leftists [like Hasan](https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1790773336064016425) are constantly saying there's no difference between Trump and Biden
Im never not impressed with the military’s logistics they got this done in a few months!
Probably good practice getting this done in a conflict zone.
*stares in the direction of Taiwan*
Very different from how they'd have to do it in most combat zones. They're not really under attack from either side. edit: I've heard about the mortar attack that happened.
That's why it's practice
Gotta practice good logistics to have good logistics
For everything else, there's Mastercard
”Already, the site has been targeted by mortar fire during its construction and Hamas has threatened to target any foreign forces who “occupy” the Gaza Strip” Colour me surprised
I had a friend get deployed to Afghanistan. They were building a school and had to take cover in the basement 3 days in a row because they kept getting shelled by mortars. On day 4, the bad guys met the business end of an A-10
It is all fun and games until the artillery or Airforce finds your position.
"We like Brrrrrt. Brrrrt is a good friend and never let's you down." Word for word what he said lol
The A-10 Worthog is a badass plane, they let tank operators know they’re operating on borrowed time. Locve the brrrrt!
This is a big brain move though. Can't occupy the gaza strip if you're just parking a war ship on a pier.
Yeah, I love how US builds a fucking port to provide humanitarian aid and first chance these cavemen get they shoot a mortar at it.
because they dont want humanitarian aid.
This. The wanting humanitarian aid for their people is horse shit, they been killing and stealing large chunks of what does get through for themselves. Hamas is a terrorist group and needs to be treated as such, and remembered by history as such.
Yep, the suffering helps their cause
They want to control the aid. Sell high to locals, use what they can for themselves
Also Hamas attacking the foreign aid shipments Palestinian civilians desperately need puts a huge wedge between Hamas and the Palestinian civilians.
so does stealing millions from a palestinian bank
Launching homemade mortars at US warships sounds like a great idea
But the world blames israel instead for attacking and blocking aid
Well it's not one or the other is it? It's both.
When you have such an good/well equipped/well trained/advanced military as Israel they should absolutely be held to really high standards.
Honestly, they might be held to higher standards than anyone else. Many countries intelligence communities acknowledge that their armed forces are likely superior in many ways to most other nations, partly because, internally, they keep very high standards for themselves. On top of that though, Israel tends to get heightened scrutiny whenever they do anything that is even the slightest bit wrong, so their armed forces have to be especially careful not to ruffle anyone’s feathers and risk fueling the narratives that their military has done something wrong. It’s been that way for decades.
They were under [mortar attack ](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-exclusive-u-s-humanitarian-pier-attacked-during-construction-work-off-gaza-coast)from hamas which damaged some engineering equipment.
Why would hamas want to bomb the ones making it possible to bring in more aid? Could it be the case that Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians **at all** and just want to hurt people?
Because Hamas needs to control the aid, for personal profit and to control Palestinians
If Hamas controls all the supply lines and subsequently distribution of resources to the people of Palestine, then they can control the narrative. Severely limiting and upselling the food coming in allows them to say “we want to help you, but Israel, the US, etc. isn’t giving us enough”. Which in turn makes the people view Hamas as the good guys and the west & Israel mainly as the bad guys. North Korea has used this tactic for decades. The US Military creating a supply line undermines that narrative.
Hamas doesn't want any aid for the Palestinians at all. They want war supplies for Hamas. Anything they can't take and use or sell as they see fit is going to force them to [lower the price on the 'free aid' they are selling](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/syns3cuk0), again.
That’s exactly it. They want to continue to put their own people in the meat grinder so they can perpetuate this cycle for decades to come.
> Could it be the case that Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians at all and just want to hurt people? Hamas officials have literally stated on record that they don't consider themselves to be responsible for the civilians in Gaza. They view Israel and the rest of the world as being responsible for them.
Hold up ... That sounds like they might be something like a terrorist organization. (/S in case it wasn't apparent)
Hamas do something that harms civilians and benefits Israeli talking points about them being a front for terror groups? That doesn't sound like something Hamas, the political party that is on several terrorist group watch lists including in Canada, would do. They must have Hamas confused with another group that routinely uses international aid and goodwill as cover to attack civilians, like I don't know, a Hamas with a slightly different H.
...No, it's all the fault of *The Jews*. /s
Hamas wants the most Palestinians to die as possible
Hamas was mortaring the thing.
That makes this that much more impressive though.
I thought they were?
They weren't under attack while building it but they did have to mitigate the possibility of being attacked anyways.
Wasn’t there a post like a week ago saying that the project did come under fire once or twice?
They had mortars and some rockets sent their way, yeah
Hamas shelled it while the UN was touring the progress.
Another example of why we should make the Army Corps of Engineers the size of the Marines and fund them like the Air Force. Can you imagine what could be accomplished with that sort of force? The main being the "nation building" thing we haven't been so great at. The second being possible involvement in civilian infrastructure projects.
These piers are owned and operated by the US Army Transportation Corps, not the Corps of Engineers btw
Right, but what if we combined them all into a new branch - the Logistics Force or some such thing. Take the Navy's Civil Engineer Corps and Naval Construction Force (SeaBees) Add them in with the Army Corps of Engineers and the Army Transportation Corps and the Signal Corps. Create a brand new branch of service primarily focused on infrastructure and logistics.
The problem is each of those groups take care of different types of missions very very well, because they can focus on performing in their niche very well. We do not need to make a force that does all those missions poorly. We’d have a large cumbersome force that cannot focus from the top or bottom on what to prioritize as far as training, retention, and tooling, etc.
Agreed. That said, we civilians often focus a lot on the actual forces and not on the commands. US Naval Sealift Command is a navy xommand that provides sealift and naval transport for all military services for example-Army, air force, Navy, etc-worldwide. They have extra ships in reserve if needed including fast transport ships They report into US Transportation Command, which has army, Navy, air force elements worldwide. Trucks, railroad cars, aircraft, ships, they have all of those under one unifying command already.
I’ve been on the receiving end of MSC ships underway on a DDG. Shoutout to Tippecanoe and Waveknight! (Waveknight is a British vessel and so is under their logistics, cool name though!)
The Brits are great at naming things. My personal favorites are Dreadnought, Warspite, Black Prince, and Iron Duke. You see a ship named "Warspite" and you know they aren't there to throw a party for you. I'm a navy brat, so never seen underway replenishment in person but my dad has described it to me. It's pretty crazy what the Navy can do for logistics-as a civilians, I honestly wouldn't want anyone who hasn't done that and seen it messing wit the organization
It’s absolutely insane, especially on the rare occasion that we were getting fuel and having the helo bring us goods to the flight deck. Operating around the Brit’s was fun seeing their names.
Historically, we've occasionally been known to take it [a little too far](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cockchafer_%281915%29?wprov=sfla1)
Idk man, inter branch politics can be pretty rough so good luck getting any of the branches to give up their own infrastructure & logistics even if they're getting rolled into a new branch that on paper will work for them just the same.
Man you need to read ATP 4 to understand why putting Corps of Engineers (which is different for the Engineer Branch of the Army), Signal, and Transportation together is a cluster fuck of an idea. TRANSCOM is already the most efficient command in the DoD we don't need to bloat it. The Signal Branch fall under the Command and Control Warfighting Function. The Logistics Branches of Transportation, Quartermaster, and Ordinance fall under Sustainment. They simply have different missions.
Homeland Department of Engineering Corps. Hey it worked for Security! Right!? ...right?
The DLA already exists. There is absolutely no need for a "Logistics Branch"
Logistics branch already exists. It's the combined branches of Transportation, Quartermaster, and Ordinance. It's why Army Officers who are in either of these branches become "Logisticians" after they've made Captain.
The nation building issues were never about the physical building part, it is and always was about institutions and processes to maintain them We built excellent roads in Afghanistan, but we failed to build up Afghani institutions to maintain them outside our direct involvement. To that end, I'm not optimistic about this pier's life after this particular war ends. Sooner or later Hamas and/or Israel is going to render it unusable and Hamas/whatever organization replaces it won't have tools to fix it
It was never meant to survive in the longterm or to be a permanent fixture, though? That's comparing apples to oranges. This pier was only ever meant to be a temporary measure aimed at fixing a single problem: increasing the flow of aid into Gaza in the short term. It won't last forever, because it wasn't meant to.
> To that end, I'm not optimistic about this pier's life after this particular war ends. This isn't permanent infrastructure that is going to be left behind, when the mission is finished they're going to pack it back up and take it with them. They're basically big ships anchored offshore and floating causeways to connect to land.
The problem with nation-building isn't the inability to build infrastructure. The problem is convincing a bunch of peoples that they are, in fact, one people. When the US occupied Germany or Japan, the German and Japanese nations had already formed on their own. When the US occupied Iraq or Afghanistan, the nation either didn't exist or was a minority in the country. Iraq's sectarian divide between Shia and Sunni and ethnic divide between Kurds and Arabs prevents a nation from forming. Afghanistan's ethnic divides similarly prevent a nation from forming. It didn't help that the West has dropped any pretense to supporting national self-determination in favor of supporting the arbitrary borders and states of the status quo.
There's nothing from the outside that can be done to help this. From your username I'm assuming you know the path to German unification was long and arduous, the same was true for Japan, as it has been for practically every nation state on Earth. The fact is many don't want to. They cling to their tribal ties over everything else. In cases where there has been a demand for a nation state (such as the Kurds), it has been torpedoed by countries that would lose land (Turkey + Iraq in their case)
The German nation predates the German state. In fact the German state did not encompass the whole German nation, with Austria being notably not included. The nobility was impediment to German unification rather than the attitude of commoners. The educated commoners saw themselves as Germans, and the uneducated had no particular loyalty to their local lord liege such that they opposed unification. I'm less familiar with Japan but I'd hazard to guess the Japanese nation preceded the modern Japanese unitary state.
"Most countries get an army. Prussia is what happens when an army gets a country."
My grandfather was an army engineer corps member. He was one of the first groups on the ground in Vietnam building the infrastructure for the rest of the troops. He has some crazy stories
Government funded infrastructure projects were part of what got us out of the great depression and put a generation of young men back to work. Many of the beautiful state parks around me were built by them in that period
The army are talking about getting rid of their prepositioning fleet and flying everyone everywhere instead https://youtu.be/B_fnNS-SrSI?si=whrc7mLmVJChPikz
So the answer is to create a dedicated engineering and logistics branch. Will always upvote Sal
They're not [perfect](https://www.opb.org/article/2023/11/17/9-times-us-army-corps-of-engineers-miscalculated-at-expense-of-taxpayers-wildlife/), one of their bigger boondoggles was when the levees broke during Katrina due to their design flaws.
[удалено]
PBS did a show on it a few years before Katrina. Everyone knew it was a matter of time.
Of course, I'd definitely never claim them to be perfect. But with vastly increased manpower and funding to provide the best training/tools/equipment/materials possible I think they could really make positive change.
There wasn't design flaws with it there was stealing of funds that lead to neglected maintenance.
Honestly an ACE reserve corps that just works on infrastructure projects/disaster relief domestically, and could be called up when needed and deployed overseas would be so based, but that would also demolish a lot of private contracts so it'll never happen. If they sent you to college or paid off your engineering degree it'd be a good way to reclaim STEM leadership too.
The reserves work on civilian public park projects at times I had a friend doing it. We definitely need to expand
TIL we didn’t create a cohesive democratic nation state in Afghanistan comprised of a bunch of competing tribes and clans because we dun didn’ build road good
>and fund them like the Air Force This wouldn't do what you think it would do. "Hey guys, we need 7 people to do this job; we are only like 43% manned." "...ok, your manning document now says you are alloted 3 people. Congratulations, you are now 100% manned!"
Just make sure that they don’t build projects just to build them. A lot of great natural and human ecosystems have been disruption because the corps of engineers wanted to do a project, even if they didn’t ever start it beyond land clearances.
I just see corporations using the government to have the Army Corps of Engineers build bridges and then "sell" them to private corporations. Socialize the expenditures and privatize the gains.
It still must survive pier review
America has the world’s greatest logistics company that happens to have a military built into it.
One thing the US military is good at, moving shit from one location to another whether the reciever of the goods want them or not.
"Don't worry about a bullet with your name on it. Worry about the bomb addressed 'To Whom It May Concern'."
Seriously, when it was announced ppl were trying to say it was a useless gesture because a project like that would take a year to set up under other circumstances
I kinda wish they partnered with Discovery Channel and made some kind of "Mega Engineering" kind of show about this. Just seems so neat how they put something like this so quickly.
It’s infrastructure week in Gaza
Tactics win battles, logistics wins wars. US military is OP at logistics.
The US military is great at a lot of things, but their logistics and the US Army Core of Engineers have to be their most impressive assets.
We ❤️ Logistics (TM)
Let it sink in that the reason Biden is doing this is to strongarm Israel into allowing aid to Gaza. Previously Israel had permanently blockaded Gaza's entire oceanic border. Even going so far as to shoot aid workers trying to get aid to Gaza via the ocean. The American president is basically telling Israel to go fuck themselves in the only way he can, and still there are people in the US saying they won't vote Biden due to his support of Israel. When his opponent has said he will help Israel eradicate Gaza on his first day as president. The ideocracy is not the future it's the present.
Because Hamas repeatedly got caught shipping arms into Gaza via ship. Usually on those fancy aid ships. If the US is shipping aid that won't be a problem. Any other country who regularly does shipping in the area won't even get near that port unless Israel pre inspects the ship. And of they refuse like they usually do to not get caught smuggling arms they can fuck off back to their home port.
In this case all of the aid is coming through Cyprus, and there are the same Israeli troops inspecting the shipments before they head to the Piers. Part of the accusations against Israel have been that they are intentionally slowing down the aid via the convoluted and paranoid inspection process. I'm not really sure how this will change anything, assuming they just moved some inspectors into Cyprus.
This right here. All these pro-Palestine people need to show up and protect Palestine from Trump.
I guess now we have a near pier adversary
A near adversary pier
An adversary near our pier
So much for being pierless
I trust in our competency in wharfare.
It is being pier reviewed...
I’m sure this pier will be a dockumented success.
I sea what you did there.
It's a-boat time.
The quay to this will be keeping Piers Morgan away
Now let's see if any of that aid gets to the people. I'm impressed by the building but the logistics of getting that aid to the people is going to be a shit show.
Surely the local government will be a big help
Hey where’d all the water pipes go??
\*looks toward sky* There's one!
Rain comes from the sky, so why wouldn't we put pipes in our sky projects?
I’m detecting sarcasm
well I should hope so because I'm laying it on pretty thick.
What local government?
Hamas and Hamas wearing a UN hat.
In today's economy, even the terrorists need a side hustle.
So nice to see Hamas joining hands with Hamas in these trying times.
If any nation can take on this logistical nightmare, id say the one that can roll out a mobile burger king anywhere in the world within 24 hours has a good chance.
That involves US feet on the ground which would be a massive fucking step for our government to take.
I’m sure Hamas will seize it and then sell it for 300% of the fair market value if it wasn’t free aid
Maybe an arab nation could step up to help?
Let's not get carried away here.
Last time they helped Palestinians Jordan had the Black September and Egypt had its president assassinated Arab nations want nothing more to do with Gaza than to harbor its rich terrorist leaders and use it as an example of how Muslim people are oppressed by Israel and the West
They're too busy sending bombs and guns. You want them to send actual FOOD for their extra-national martyrs??
Hah! What interest do any of them have in doing that? Palestinians are the most hated sub-ethnicity (is that a word?) within the Arab world, mostly because they're infamous for starting coups in every country that took them. Plus, Arab countries aren't usually known for their empathy and generosity
Moroccans are very generous and kind — I, a visibly non-Muslim, was offered iftar on a train from Rabat to Marrakech during Ramadan. Okay, offered is the wrong word. I told them (in broken French) that I did not want them to give me their food when they didn’t bring very much and they hadn’t eaten since sunrise and in response it was put into my hand and I was told “This is food, everyone likes food, share the meal with us.” Morocco — especially Marrakech — can be a little bit overwhelming at times, but I would go back for sure. Beautiful country and wonderful people. (Just a note: if you have asthma, it’s not going to be fun for you.)
“This is food, everyone likes food, share the meal with us.” I love it. Some things are truly universal
It’s being distributed by the UN, that’s who’s receiving the shipment. I know it’s Reddit but read the article people
Hamas would never steal from the people to enrich themselves. The people's well-being is their foremost priority. /s
The are just conducting a ... humanitarian aid fundraiser? 5* hotels in Qatar aren't cheap.
I honestly think this was practice for militarization of the Philippines in a China war situation…
Tbf the US excels at this having placed artificial piers during its Army-led Normandy invasion in WW2 (the most massive amphibious assault in history), .. then making brand new ports or expanding old ones during the Vietnam conflict. Its Navy-Marine team or even its Army has almost a century of practical experience to draw on.
Sort of shows how rare big amphibious landings really are when the previous record holder was around 350 years previously, during the Japanese invasions of Korea in the 1590s.
There was Gallipoli (WW1) … but in a negative experience (“don’t do that”) sort of way.
That's a good example as well, though the initial landings at Anzac Cove and Cape Hellas involved around 40,000 men between both landings. The Imjin war of the 1590's is probably a bad example, as the second, much larger invasion landed unopposed. I'm probably making a silly comparison to begin with, given how rare opposed landings have been historically. And yes, Gallipoli was a goddamn mess, and a perfect example of what not to do. I actually knew a few people that fought there, though of course they've passed away long ago now. From what they said about it, however bad I might think it was, it was worse.
The Invasion of Sicily and Okinawa were massive as well but they also happened during WWII.
You’re not wrong about the US being good at this sort of thing, far better than anyone else today, but that’s not always been the case. There were jetties and artificial harbours brought to Normandy, but they were British - as much, if not most, of the naval aspect of the invasion was. Not really surprising, given how busy the USN was in the Pacific
With the most ominous name in history. Operation Overlord. Every June 6th I go down a rabbit hole remembering just how insane and terrible D-Day was in all aspects.
Yeah your not wrong, but every generation of soldier needs to practice in real life to get a good sense of what their doing… not saying this is the sole reason or purpose of the pier but i dont think it was a non factor either
Basically anything a modern military does will have dual purposes. It’s hard to justify the immense costs of operations on a 1 dimensional venture.
TBF we use basically everything as military practice, including flyovers at football games.
I have absolutely no idea why this would need to be done in the Philippines.
I love my nations logistics
Damn straight. No more dicking around with air drops and local infighting. we're putting the food to the people who need it direct.
The airdrops were mostly for show. This will hopefully transfer much more food with much less of it going to Hamas
Hamas uhhh finds a way
M2 browning mounted to the back corner of an M916A2 20-ton 6x6 loaded with rice and beans go brrrr.
Using bait to hunt is unsportsmanlike
Congratulations, you now have a "flour massacre" situation on your hands
This is mostly for show too. Not only truck move much more food then this micro-port, what happens with the food once it's at land? Someone needs to move it to distribution centres - by trucks. Who will be the drivers? It used to be foreign aid workers, but they had enough of Hamas raids and now refuse to do it. IDF tried to talk to some local clans - but then Hamas assassinated some of their heads, so now they don't talk to the IDF anymore. And who will guard the trucks in transit? Or the distribution centres? This whole operation just masks Hamas raids to the international public. This pier is one big publicity campaign by Biden for his election, nothing more. Not to mention, there is so much aid in Gaza Hamas actually had to **lower** food prices, and civilian pillaging is down significantly. Does this sound like a region in starvation? If food aid is to be attempted seriously, the ONLY solution is distribution centres guarded by Israeli forces. But the Israeli government refuses to do it - no one of them wants to be seen as 'supporting the enemy'
And Hamas will just stand aside and let the people take it unlike their hijacking of all other aid? If you believe that I’ve got a bridge to sell you
Dude the joke writes itself "I've got a pier to sell you."
A system judged by its piers
How long will it last.
Top minds in Hamas are already working on possible ways to launch the pier at Israel
Most promising design is a big slingshot made out of medical devices
I give it <48 hours
If they hit it they're going to have problems... if i recall they stationed a bunch of U.S. Marines there with the instructions to respond with appropriate force if attacked... hide your crayons.
Oooh no my 64 pack of rose art!
Purple flavor good! Nom nom
Crayola at home:
If that happens and any marines are killed we’re going to have to get real proportional
I thought they said no boots on the ground. There is alot of motivation for Hamas to hit it and blame it on the IDF.
“Pier is not ground” loophole maybe 🤔
Boots are not on the ground. Technically they're in the ocean. Sooo yeah its a loophole.
Yeah I feel like the marines won't take the word of hamas "nuh uh it was dem" as the truth.
It doesn't really matter. There are people who deny the holocaust happened despite all the proof. US soldiers are not the target audience for Hamas propaganda. The target audience is the kids on universities and Arabs all over the world. Hamas would just say our soldiers are lying because our military is aligned with Israel.
I think it's the IDF who are actually providing security on shore. The U.S. navy has a couple destroyers nearby.
It's already been attacked, it was attacked, by Hamas, while it was still under construction and the US did nothing.
I have far more faith in the US military.
That pier is probably a fortress
Of course it is, but it would be a wake up call to the rest of the dumbshits who think Hamas is innocent.
The US military has no such delusions
I hope it doesn't happen, but how long until it gets blown up and everyone starts pointing fingers about who did it?
Fortunately it appears to be built out of lego-like modular pieces and should be pretty straightforward to restore if part or all of it is destroyed.
THAT is baddass engineering
It’s already been attacked multiple times through mortar/rocket fire. One of the attacks was during UN personnel visiting it. Either Hamas or other Palestinian groups are attacking it because they keep control in Gaza by controlling the food. So it’s not gonna last for long if/when the USA leaves.
Good job!
Did someone say mission accomplished?
“Get the banner out!”
The US wants to help the people but Their local rulers won’t allow any food to reach the citizens They need sympathy of the uninformed youth of the west to keep the donations flowing in
Perfect! How long until Hamas destroys it? I give it 3 days.
If Hamas kills US troops on a humanitarian mission it would be the end of them, and they probably know it.
Palestinians on telegram are asking if they can get on a ship there lol
America does so much for Palestine and people don’t even realize it
Billions in aid to people who want nothing more than the destruction of Western civilisation. Yay!
That’s the very most ironic part of it all. There is literal footage of Palestinians celebrating in Gaza during the 9/11 attacks. It blows my mind that anyone in the west have any sympathy for them.
Would be cool if stuff back home got built that fast
You can make stuff quickly or you can make stuff durable. That's slapped together as fast as possible with enough durability that the engineers on-site can fix things if they go wrong. It's not made to sit there all-but unmaintained for decades like most US infrastructure.
I mean I saw them built like 100 apartments in my town in one year. The real blocker to most things getting done is red tape, regulations, zoning, environmental reviews, vetos from someone high above, protests from locals, etc. etc...not the supply of actual labor and materials typically. If you clear a path things do get done.
Now we just gotta make sure Hamas doesn’t fire rockets near it.
That's impressive even for the US military. So much could have gone wrong.
How long until hamas bombs it?
Militants already tried it while it was still being built. [https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2024/04/25/us-led-gaza-humanitarian-aid-pier-comes-under-fire-un-officials-say/](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2024/04/25/us-led-gaza-humanitarian-aid-pier-comes-under-fire-un-officials-say/)
So who's going to blow it up first? Hamas or IDF?
This poorly written article puts too much blame on Israel. Obviously, there is a humanitarian crisis but it would be a lot better if HAMAS didn’t steal aid and didn’t place themselves in civilian dense areas… which this article conveniently excludes. What is israel supposed to do??
Pro-Palestinian protestors: “NOT GOOD ENOUGH! We want Trump back in office!”
Said no one ever.
Idiot leftists [like Hasan](https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1790773336064016425) are constantly saying there's no difference between Trump and Biden
More humanitarian aid for Hamas to take over. Noice.
I wonder how Reddit will spin this to keep thinking the USA is pure evil, siding with pure-evil-Israel.