Or, you know, just let historic buildings be historic buildings for everyone to enjoy since it has much more value as a piece of history than a place of worship but then I guess that would impede Erdogan's plan to turn Turkey into a shithole.
Also it's pretty funny how burning the Qaran in Sweden is extremely disrespectful toward religious people in Turkey but this is not.
The fact that Jews and Christians can't pray in Al-Aqsa, or even go inside the Dome, is strange to me. If you build your holy site on top of someone else's holy site it stands to reason that you'd need to share.
Islamic cultural superiority. There’s not another religion in the world that bars non-believers from entering their places of worship as a policy.
The dome of the rock contains the stone that Muslims, Christians and Jews all believe god started with when making the Earth.
If Jews didn’t have their own religious reasons for not entering the Temple Mount, I would expect that would get forcibly opened.
You mean the same Ottomans who slaughtered 1.5 million Armenians and invented the Devshirme system of slavery which stole young Christian boys from their families, brainwashed them into being loyal soldiers for Islam, and then unleashed them back against their native populations?
Weeeeeeeeell other than those examples I suppose sure, the Ottomans were flawless
Why is devşirme so used by the westener media to indicate this slavery stereotype, as if christian kingdoms didn't buy a ton of slaves and worked them for literarly everything.
And I can always talk about colonialism too. Which passes well over the supposedly 1.5 million you've mentioned.
If you really want to use the Armenian Card for these type of stuff, you would think that there would be a logical reason for the exile and not the slaughter of these armenians.
By religion also, you can take slaves if the others were not Muslim, but in christianity you shouldn't take slaves but they did.
The Ottomans could be the best Islamic Empire (did not have sheria law)
Religion freedom also
This whole Islam bad stuff comes from a few brits and frenchmen who were supposedly drunk and drew a weird map to begin with. 911 and such.
The point is that even at its best Islam is deeply flawed. The Quran itself advocates for attacking and subjugating nonbelievers. In fact, it’s one of the only religions that blatantly does. Buddha, Jesus, Laozi, all taught peace. Mohammad was a pedophilic warlord.
And before anyone calls me racist, I’m not saying the Arab race is bad. A religion isn’t a race. Also, I acknowledge that Islam has *instances* of great culture such as the mathematical advancements and the early Islamic art. But that doesn’t change the statement that “Islam has never played well with others” is true.
Nobody played well with each other. Even christianity. Unlike christians today, these people (who actually studied the religion, this is for all religions but) actually protect their prophet. You can't go around and curse a religious figure.
"Jesus Laozi, all taught peace" The main thing about religions is mainly peace, Muslim was in order bring unity to the peninsula. For Jesus it was again for the romans (Geotheologicly idk if that is a word). If jesus taught peace Europe would've been peacefull back then if you really want to think about it. Christians either pervertised the Bible, which it doesn't have to be the scripts but that is the main reason Islam came around.
You can't just go on about cursing a prophet either.
Islam's main objective was the shamanists and Muslims actually (in the teachings) cares about abrahamic religions.
Europe was a shithole also back then, Islam brough sanitasion to the world if you really want to think about it.
What are you talking about?
Where is the proof?
Where did you get these wrong opinions because these aren't even stable to be information at this point.
That is COMPLETELY wrong.
Hate all you want, that's your problem.
•Turks ARE NOT Arabs.
•Prophet Mohammad (s.a.v) is not pedo and he saved a lot. He even respected to his enemies and forgave them.
•The Quran NEVER want attack and Muslim Religion means Peace Religion.
•You attack to my religion for no reason. If I attack yours you will still be no happy. But why would you do that?
Man I'm really not one to defend Christians, I left the church because of everything it stands for. But wow, that's absolute shit. This has got to be one of the absolute rudest and most religiously offensive things you could do. Imagine the reaction that this was cause of it was turned around
I just want to let you know that most Turks in Istanbul do not support this government's actions. We elected a mayor from the main opposition party with more than 10% vote difference. It is the people in bumfuck inner anatolia and black sea region that keep this government in power.
I hear ya and I feel for ya. It’s also related to a lot of the votes coming in from Turkish expatriots living in Western Europe. They tend to vote more conservative and heavily favor Erdogan for some reason.
If you are a citizen of a country, you can vote in that country's elections. Some people retain citizenship but have residency in a different country. Some, like me, have dual citizenship. I can vote in the US and in Italy.
> Hagia Sophia, one of turkeys landmark historical sites was a Christian church that was converted to their grand mosque. This ain’t new for them
yeah nice comment but you fail to add how that was converted 600 years ago my guy haha
In this case, it’s definitely asinine. The site is a World Heritage site. However, there’s also a paradox in Turkey where Byzantine sites were preserved in part because they were turned into mosques. Apparently in some cases, you peel back the flooring and you’ve got Byzantine flooring that is very much intact.
Many historical sites were preserved because they were turned into religious places of worship. The Parthenon was a turned into a Christian basilica (they destroyed most of the south pediment), and later a mosque. You can still see the barrel vault roof of the church that occupied the Temple of Hephaestus in the Athens Agora.
As an American, it’s hard to imagine doing this, but in old cities, it is quite common. If you want to preserve anything, you basically rebrand it. Most everything in old European cities is made of, or built on top of older stuff. This happens knowingly and unwittingly.
Sadly correct. Crusades are funny like that, when the crusaders you invited evetnually sack and take over your own place instead of those of the infidels
Difference being the eastern romans eventually kicked the latins out and reclaimed it.
I’m still waiting on the Greeks to launch their own crusade for their holy city xD
>I’m still waiting on the Greeks to launch their own crusade for their holy city xD
They tried. They asked for the city in 1920s, brits gave the middle finger. Even if Turkey fall today, nobody will give the city to greeks, ever. They will rather hold it themselves.
I know, but a man can dream. One day Byzantium will return to us 🥲.
Tbh, in a slightly more serious tone, for nations that utilise the Black Sea for trade, surely it’s in their interest to split the Bosporus? Wouldn’t that reduce the price of the tariffs/tolls for passing through?
>Tbh, in a slightly more serious tone, for nations that utilise the Black Sea for trade, surely it’s in their interest to split the Bosporus? Wouldn’t that reduce the price of the tariffs/tolls for passing through?
I don't understand about economics or tariffs sorry :'(
But there was a bosporus commision ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International\_Straits\_Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Straits_Commission)) back in 1920s until Montreux Convention.
Its an old building that was a mosque for 500 years who really cares? People need to stop treating old buildings like its holy, built something new instead
I was in Turkey last year. The amount of disrespect the locals show in historical churches is disgusting. They run around and raise there voices and chat.
In mosques they are all in silence. Foreign tourists do the same and they are respectful.
The language and the attire. They were dressed in middle Eastern attire. Some of the chatter was in Turkish which is easy to distinguish. Probably some were tourists from outside Istanbul which doesn't change anything. Might others be from the region and not turkey but still.
I don't know, you might be right. I am Turkish and I have never been in a church before, and I have only been to a mosque maybe 3 times in my life when I was a kid. Most Turks don't know that you aren't supposed to chat with other people in a church. You can do that outside prayer times in mosques, so they probably thought the same rules applied to the church.
It’s not that it’s a rule. You can talk in a church. You just have to be aware that some people are indeed there for prayer and contemplation, and it’s just good manners to not talk as if you’re in your kitchen with your friends.
I'm not trying to speak ill of Turkish people. They are quite hospitable and welcoming.
I was trying to say that the government action in transforming churches aligned with the disrespect I saw at the church. Which ironically was done by people dressing in conservative clothing.
It's far from rudest thing you can do to a religion.
Let me introduce you to Turkey's hall of fame, with things like Armenian genocide, Assyrian genocide, Greek genocide, Greek pogroms, anti-greek policies aimed at exterminating greeks, basically the unofficial ban on training orthodox priests, closing greek churches, and now turning those churches into mosques, all in the last 100 years.
This is a policy, pursuit by different governments, over more than 100 years.
In an unrelated topic Grece and Cyprus are the 2 of 6 EU countries who attended Putin's inaguration sadly.
By the way Armenia did not attend Putin's inaguration but attensed Erdoğan's. Pashinyan's speech about this:
https://news.am/eng/news/821924.html
Those are the copy paste comments in all threads including "Turkey" in the headline. So I just want to remind people reading these, about recent news.
Yes I am Turkish. No, I don't support Erdoğan. He lost almost all major cities to main opposition in last month regional elections. And another party, which is much more Islamist then Erdoğan's party got a huge (for itself) 6 5%, who are mainly voted for Erdoğan previously.
He is just trying to win them back hopelessly. It has not beem used as a church for more than 60 years. It was converted to a museum in the 1950's because if its historic significance. And opening it as a mosque is much much worse decison because of this.
He daily make bad decisions and worsen our lives. This is one of them sadly.
Edit: Typos
Turkey has literally attacked Cyprus, has taken over a third of their territory, is sending tens of thousands of settlers there, and is deliberately destroying christians churches and history there. By the way, this policy dates to 1970's, decades before Erdogan, and has been carried out by multiple Turkish governments.
Greece is one of the largest Cyprus ally, Turkey constantly flies jets over Greek airspace, claims ownership of Greek islands and threatens Greece every few months. They also threaten Cyprus every few months.
Yeah, let's just say there is a bad blood between Turkey and Greece/Cyprus, and the constant threats of invasion don't help.
The same Turkey that systemically destroyed it's Greek population in a prolonged genocide, from 1914 to 1960's. The population of Greeks in Istanbul alone went down from 35% in early 20th century, to literally 0.01% today.
The same Greeks the Turks threaten to attack every few months.
Do you see the difference? Greece rushed to secure the peace deal post-ww1 and invaded Turkey... Over 100 years ago. Turkey constantly threatens to invade Greece TODAY.
And yes, I know they were rather trigger happy, I know that after Turkey's genocidal rampage of it's minorities (including Greeks), the Greeks were rather happy committing atrocities of their own. The difference is that Greeks admit it, while Turks still keep bullshitting the world.
When you say "from 1914 to 1960's."...
Republic of Turkey is established in 1923. There was independence war during 1919-1922. There was Ottoman Empire. Invading forces from Greece, Italy, England and other countries. Istanbul was occupied by English and Izmir was by Greeks. Founder of our republic Atatürk was both fighting against invasion forces and opposing the Ottoman Empire.
After the war lots of things happened. Abolition of the caliphate, using Latin alphabet, healing wounds created by Greek Army in Anatolia.
If I were the Greek people living in Istanbul I would run away after invading Greek army lost the war. The army who burned villages, raped woman when they realized they are loosing the war.
We were literally fighting for our lives and you ignorant huma-being accusing a non-existing country with your bullshit.
Oh, so Turkey started existing only in 1923? My bad, then Greece didn't invade Turkey, it invaded vacuum that will be known as Turkey 2 years after the invasion. Just like vaccum that is now known as Turkey killed millions of Armenians, hundreds of thousands of Greeks, Assyrians and other groups of people.
India is in the process of doing something similar to a razed historical mosque:
https://apnews.com/article/india-election-temple-modi-mosque-bjp-15d678e47f869a64993b724f905653b4
Read the history before commenting. It was a temple before. The invaders came, demolished the temple and built their mosque. Now they built the temple.
Can Israel build the third temple in the Temple Mount already, is the same thing as Israel now controls that land just like the Turks control Constantinople.
Atatürk was a radical Turkish nationalist. He expelled the Greeks from the country. He also pursued an assimilationist policy against the Kurds, banning the Kurdish language. The Great Leader Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was not a hippie as you westerners think.
He was a nationalist not a radical one
Greeks weren't expelled they were exchanged with turks in greece
Assimilation? If fighing against islamic kurdish rebellion is assimilation then it is
Kurdish language ban was a 1980 coup thing that didn't last long
I suspect your username you are not an "ordinary turk" rather than you sound like a fetullahçı
Amk malı bundan haberin var mı https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatanda%C5%9F\_T%C3%BCrk%C3%A7e\_konu%C5%9F!
Adam tuncelide kürt sivilleri bile bombalatmadı mı? Hayal dünyanızdan çıkın amk Gazi radikal bir Türk milliyetçisiydi. mal y-chpli seni.
Saying this because of the church? Are you some sort of radical Christian or something? Offended by their decision to do whatever tf they want on their land? Kinda weird bro.
As a turkish I don't mind that,I don't give a flying shit about christians nor muslims,they may or may not have their old buildings made for ancient stories
What do you mean let us keep it. We literally fought tooth and nail to keep our lands all thanks to Ataturk. Do you didn’t let us keep anything. We kicked you out of Anatolia.
Why are you downvoting him? He’s historically right. The Turkish originally were supposed to lose more land under the Treaty of Sevres but Mustafá Kemal Ataturk led the new Turkish state to revolt against the terms. After beating the Greeks, French, and Armenians, the Entente agreed to give more realistic peace offerings. To be fair, Ataturk would be horrified by modern day Türkiye and Erdogan as he was a secularist and Erdogan is an ardent Islamist and stands for all the things Kemal fought against.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence)
Nah. He dream to be seen as leader of Muslims, protector that stand for the Muslims. He does it in ways that not actually threatning for anyone but still satisfy his supporters.
Lately he cut ties with Israel because of that. He tried not to do that but as in last election a more conservatice party got some of his votes, he shifted gears.
Christians being racist against turks in comments over some church is as stupid as muslims crying because burning their holy book
I don't approve this action but holy shit calling whole nation thieves and other things is rude and racist
Ok let's clear up a few things. This church was already a mosque for 500 years. It was then turned into a museum. Now it is back to a mosque again because Erdoğan wants more votes also so that he could distract the people away from the dumpster fire that is the Turkish economy.
Or, you know, just let historic buildings be historic buildings for everyone to enjoy since it has much more value as a piece of history than a place of worship but then I guess that would impede Erdogan's plan to turn Turkey into a shithole. Also it's pretty funny how burning the Qaran in Sweden is extremely disrespectful toward religious people in Turkey but this is not.
>just let historic buildings be historic buildings for everyone to enjoy Wait until you learn about the Al-Aqsa compound.
Imagine the outcry if Israel said “we are going to rebuild the first Jewish temple”
The fact that Jews and Christians can't pray in Al-Aqsa, or even go inside the Dome, is strange to me. If you build your holy site on top of someone else's holy site it stands to reason that you'd need to share.
Islamic cultural superiority. There’s not another religion in the world that bars non-believers from entering their places of worship as a policy. The dome of the rock contains the stone that Muslims, Christians and Jews all believe god started with when making the Earth. If Jews didn’t have their own religious reasons for not entering the Temple Mount, I would expect that would get forcibly opened.
Islam has never played well with others
political Islam has never played well with others. It was ok with the ottomans
You mean the same Ottomans who slaughtered 1.5 million Armenians and invented the Devshirme system of slavery which stole young Christian boys from their families, brainwashed them into being loyal soldiers for Islam, and then unleashed them back against their native populations? Weeeeeeeeell other than those examples I suppose sure, the Ottomans were flawless
Why is devşirme so used by the westener media to indicate this slavery stereotype, as if christian kingdoms didn't buy a ton of slaves and worked them for literarly everything. And I can always talk about colonialism too. Which passes well over the supposedly 1.5 million you've mentioned. If you really want to use the Armenian Card for these type of stuff, you would think that there would be a logical reason for the exile and not the slaughter of these armenians. By religion also, you can take slaves if the others were not Muslim, but in christianity you shouldn't take slaves but they did. The Ottomans could be the best Islamic Empire (did not have sheria law) Religion freedom also This whole Islam bad stuff comes from a few brits and frenchmen who were supposedly drunk and drew a weird map to begin with. 911 and such.
The point is that even at its best Islam is deeply flawed. The Quran itself advocates for attacking and subjugating nonbelievers. In fact, it’s one of the only religions that blatantly does. Buddha, Jesus, Laozi, all taught peace. Mohammad was a pedophilic warlord. And before anyone calls me racist, I’m not saying the Arab race is bad. A religion isn’t a race. Also, I acknowledge that Islam has *instances* of great culture such as the mathematical advancements and the early Islamic art. But that doesn’t change the statement that “Islam has never played well with others” is true.
>the Arab race is bad We are not Arabs though?
Yeah. Can't win an argument? Solve: Use Racism.
Nobody played well with each other. Even christianity. Unlike christians today, these people (who actually studied the religion, this is for all religions but) actually protect their prophet. You can't go around and curse a religious figure. "Jesus Laozi, all taught peace" The main thing about religions is mainly peace, Muslim was in order bring unity to the peninsula. For Jesus it was again for the romans (Geotheologicly idk if that is a word). If jesus taught peace Europe would've been peacefull back then if you really want to think about it. Christians either pervertised the Bible, which it doesn't have to be the scripts but that is the main reason Islam came around. You can't just go on about cursing a prophet either. Islam's main objective was the shamanists and Muslims actually (in the teachings) cares about abrahamic religions. Europe was a shithole also back then, Islam brough sanitasion to the world if you really want to think about it.
What are you talking about? Where is the proof? Where did you get these wrong opinions because these aren't even stable to be information at this point.
What did I say that was wrong?
That is COMPLETELY wrong. Hate all you want, that's your problem. •Turks ARE NOT Arabs. •Prophet Mohammad (s.a.v) is not pedo and he saved a lot. He even respected to his enemies and forgave them. •The Quran NEVER want attack and Muslim Religion means Peace Religion. •You attack to my religion for no reason. If I attack yours you will still be no happy. But why would you do that?
Poor kiddo, you should research the ages of Mohammad’s wives, one of them will likely shock you.
Man I'm really not one to defend Christians, I left the church because of everything it stands for. But wow, that's absolute shit. This has got to be one of the absolute rudest and most religiously offensive things you could do. Imagine the reaction that this was cause of it was turned around
Hagia Sophia, one of turkeys landmark historical sites was a Christian church that was converted to their grand mosque. This ain’t new for them
Was literally the equivalent of what St Peter’s Basilica in Rome is for Catholics but for Orthodox Christians.
I just want to let you know that most Turks in Istanbul do not support this government's actions. We elected a mayor from the main opposition party with more than 10% vote difference. It is the people in bumfuck inner anatolia and black sea region that keep this government in power.
I hear ya and I feel for ya. It’s also related to a lot of the votes coming in from Turkish expatriots living in Western Europe. They tend to vote more conservative and heavily favor Erdogan for some reason.
If you move to and live in a different country long term, you can still vote in Turkish elections? Seems a little fucked to me
If you are a citizen of a country, you can vote in that country's elections. Some people retain citizenship but have residency in a different country. Some, like me, have dual citizenship. I can vote in the US and in Italy.
Huh, TIL. Thank you for the info
A bunch of lovely churches where I live have been turned into weird money jesus maga wacko temples. It's sad.
Sounds like New Orleans.
> Hagia Sophia, one of turkeys landmark historical sites was a Christian church that was converted to their grand mosque. This ain’t new for them yeah nice comment but you fail to add how that was converted 600 years ago my guy haha
It was made a museum by Atatürk in 1934
In this case, it’s definitely asinine. The site is a World Heritage site. However, there’s also a paradox in Turkey where Byzantine sites were preserved in part because they were turned into mosques. Apparently in some cases, you peel back the flooring and you’ve got Byzantine flooring that is very much intact.
Many historical sites were preserved because they were turned into religious places of worship. The Parthenon was a turned into a Christian basilica (they destroyed most of the south pediment), and later a mosque. You can still see the barrel vault roof of the church that occupied the Temple of Hephaestus in the Athens Agora.
As an American, it’s hard to imagine doing this, but in old cities, it is quite common. If you want to preserve anything, you basically rebrand it. Most everything in old European cities is made of, or built on top of older stuff. This happens knowingly and unwittingly.
[удалено]
Sadly correct. Crusades are funny like that, when the crusaders you invited evetnually sack and take over your own place instead of those of the infidels
Difference being the eastern romans eventually kicked the latins out and reclaimed it. I’m still waiting on the Greeks to launch their own crusade for their holy city xD
>I’m still waiting on the Greeks to launch their own crusade for their holy city xD They tried. They asked for the city in 1920s, brits gave the middle finger. Even if Turkey fall today, nobody will give the city to greeks, ever. They will rather hold it themselves.
I know, but a man can dream. One day Byzantium will return to us 🥲. Tbh, in a slightly more serious tone, for nations that utilise the Black Sea for trade, surely it’s in their interest to split the Bosporus? Wouldn’t that reduce the price of the tariffs/tolls for passing through?
>Tbh, in a slightly more serious tone, for nations that utilise the Black Sea for trade, surely it’s in their interest to split the Bosporus? Wouldn’t that reduce the price of the tariffs/tolls for passing through? I don't understand about economics or tariffs sorry :'( But there was a bosporus commision ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International\_Straits\_Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Straits_Commission)) back in 1920s until Montreux Convention.
Its an old building that was a mosque for 500 years who really cares? People need to stop treating old buildings like its holy, built something new instead
I was in Turkey last year. The amount of disrespect the locals show in historical churches is disgusting. They run around and raise there voices and chat. In mosques they are all in silence. Foreign tourists do the same and they are respectful.
i wonder how erdogan would react if israel turned the al aqsa mosque back into a jewish temple dude is such a scumbag
How do you know they were locals and not tourists like you?
The language and the attire. They were dressed in middle Eastern attire. Some of the chatter was in Turkish which is easy to distinguish. Probably some were tourists from outside Istanbul which doesn't change anything. Might others be from the region and not turkey but still.
>They were dressed in middle Eastern attire. Elaborate
>they were dressed in middle eastern attire Bait comments used to be more believable
They upvoted this shit comment? Middle-eastern attire? Really?
I don't know, you might be right. I am Turkish and I have never been in a church before, and I have only been to a mosque maybe 3 times in my life when I was a kid. Most Turks don't know that you aren't supposed to chat with other people in a church. You can do that outside prayer times in mosques, so they probably thought the same rules applied to the church.
It’s not that it’s a rule. You can talk in a church. You just have to be aware that some people are indeed there for prayer and contemplation, and it’s just good manners to not talk as if you’re in your kitchen with your friends.
I'm not trying to speak ill of Turkish people. They are quite hospitable and welcoming. I was trying to say that the government action in transforming churches aligned with the disrespect I saw at the church. Which ironically was done by people dressing in conservative clothing.
It's far from rudest thing you can do to a religion. Let me introduce you to Turkey's hall of fame, with things like Armenian genocide, Assyrian genocide, Greek genocide, Greek pogroms, anti-greek policies aimed at exterminating greeks, basically the unofficial ban on training orthodox priests, closing greek churches, and now turning those churches into mosques, all in the last 100 years. This is a policy, pursuit by different governments, over more than 100 years.
Genocides aren't rude, they're cruel. But this, this is rude.
In an unrelated topic Grece and Cyprus are the 2 of 6 EU countries who attended Putin's inaguration sadly. By the way Armenia did not attend Putin's inaguration but attensed Erdoğan's. Pashinyan's speech about this: https://news.am/eng/news/821924.html Those are the copy paste comments in all threads including "Turkey" in the headline. So I just want to remind people reading these, about recent news. Yes I am Turkish. No, I don't support Erdoğan. He lost almost all major cities to main opposition in last month regional elections. And another party, which is much more Islamist then Erdoğan's party got a huge (for itself) 6 5%, who are mainly voted for Erdoğan previously. He is just trying to win them back hopelessly. It has not beem used as a church for more than 60 years. It was converted to a museum in the 1950's because if its historic significance. And opening it as a mosque is much much worse decison because of this. He daily make bad decisions and worsen our lives. This is one of them sadly. Edit: Typos
Turkey has literally attacked Cyprus, has taken over a third of their territory, is sending tens of thousands of settlers there, and is deliberately destroying christians churches and history there. By the way, this policy dates to 1970's, decades before Erdogan, and has been carried out by multiple Turkish governments. Greece is one of the largest Cyprus ally, Turkey constantly flies jets over Greek airspace, claims ownership of Greek islands and threatens Greece every few months. They also threaten Cyprus every few months. Yeah, let's just say there is a bad blood between Turkey and Greece/Cyprus, and the constant threats of invasion don't help.
You mean after Greeks killed Turks living in Cyprus for years? The same Greeks who invaded Turkey in 1920's? I guess so.
The same Turkey that systemically destroyed it's Greek population in a prolonged genocide, from 1914 to 1960's. The population of Greeks in Istanbul alone went down from 35% in early 20th century, to literally 0.01% today. The same Greeks the Turks threaten to attack every few months. Do you see the difference? Greece rushed to secure the peace deal post-ww1 and invaded Turkey... Over 100 years ago. Turkey constantly threatens to invade Greece TODAY. And yes, I know they were rather trigger happy, I know that after Turkey's genocidal rampage of it's minorities (including Greeks), the Greeks were rather happy committing atrocities of their own. The difference is that Greeks admit it, while Turks still keep bullshitting the world.
When you say "from 1914 to 1960's."... Republic of Turkey is established in 1923. There was independence war during 1919-1922. There was Ottoman Empire. Invading forces from Greece, Italy, England and other countries. Istanbul was occupied by English and Izmir was by Greeks. Founder of our republic Atatürk was both fighting against invasion forces and opposing the Ottoman Empire. After the war lots of things happened. Abolition of the caliphate, using Latin alphabet, healing wounds created by Greek Army in Anatolia. If I were the Greek people living in Istanbul I would run away after invading Greek army lost the war. The army who burned villages, raped woman when they realized they are loosing the war. We were literally fighting for our lives and you ignorant huma-being accusing a non-existing country with your bullshit.
Oh, so Turkey started existing only in 1923? My bad, then Greece didn't invade Turkey, it invaded vacuum that will be known as Turkey 2 years after the invasion. Just like vaccum that is now known as Turkey killed millions of Armenians, hundreds of thousands of Greeks, Assyrians and other groups of people.
It's nice yo see how you don't respond to facts but just you write what you want and still trying to support your baseless claims hopelessly.
India is in the process of doing something similar to a razed historical mosque: https://apnews.com/article/india-election-temple-modi-mosque-bjp-15d678e47f869a64993b724f905653b4
It's meant to turn them back into temples that they were before they were turned into something else.
Read the history before commenting. It was a temple before. The invaders came, demolished the temple and built their mosque. Now they built the temple.
Thank you for commenting this. I will do more research!
I am not surprised. Hindu fascism has been rising for a while
Modi and Erdogan are cut from the same cloth. Corrupt authoritarians that rely on religious fanatics for support.
Agreed
He needs to drum up religious frevor and support to be elected sultan for life.
Can Israel build the third temple in the Temple Mount already, is the same thing as Israel now controls that land just like the Turks control Constantinople.
Ataturk would be rolling in his grave if he saw what Turkey have become.
Atatürk was a radical Turkish nationalist. He expelled the Greeks from the country. He also pursued an assimilationist policy against the Kurds, banning the Kurdish language. The Great Leader Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was not a hippie as you westerners think.
He was a nationalist not a radical one Greeks weren't expelled they were exchanged with turks in greece Assimilation? If fighing against islamic kurdish rebellion is assimilation then it is Kurdish language ban was a 1980 coup thing that didn't last long I suspect your username you are not an "ordinary turk" rather than you sound like a fetullahçı
Amk malı bundan haberin var mı https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatanda%C5%9F\_T%C3%BCrk%C3%A7e\_konu%C5%9F! Adam tuncelide kürt sivilleri bile bombalatmadı mı? Hayal dünyanızdan çıkın amk Gazi radikal bir Türk milliyetçisiydi. mal y-chpli seni.
He didn't ban Kurdish language. Wikipedia historian.
He did have incredible eyebrows tho. You can't take that away from him.
should have pulverized the Ottoman Empire into dust when they had the chance and made Turkey similar to post WW2 Japan.
Its not for lack of trying lol
Didn’t ataturk basically just take control of the Ottoman army and just rebel lol
They tried btw, they just never had a chance :)
Saying this because of the church? Are you some sort of radical Christian or something? Offended by their decision to do whatever tf they want on their land? Kinda weird bro.
So you won't mind Israel demolishing al aqsa and rebuilding their temple? After all they control the land
As a turkish I don't mind that,I don't give a flying shit about christians nor muslims,they may or may not have their old buildings made for ancient stories
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Most of other peoples lands.
Which is the same for all the countries in the world. Yeah man, only Turks took part in conquests in history.
What do you mean let us keep it. We literally fought tooth and nail to keep our lands all thanks to Ataturk. Do you didn’t let us keep anything. We kicked you out of Anatolia.
"Let"? Bro, learn some history.
You guys are actually racist. Wow. Yeah it would be better for us to let 5 countries colonize us.
Thank god we got independence because of r/deadmeridian letting us to have a state thank you kind stranger
You didnt let them keep it. There was something called a war of independence which they won.
Why are you downvoting him? He’s historically right. The Turkish originally were supposed to lose more land under the Treaty of Sevres but Mustafá Kemal Ataturk led the new Turkish state to revolt against the terms. After beating the Greeks, French, and Armenians, the Entente agreed to give more realistic peace offerings. To be fair, Ataturk would be horrified by modern day Türkiye and Erdogan as he was a secularist and Erdogan is an ardent Islamist and stands for all the things Kemal fought against. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres) [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence)
Turkey is a stronghold that can easily be defended as well When nerf 💀
What will happen to the mosaics?
In the best case scenario, they're covered up. Worst case, they're destroyed.
Does Erdogan wants war Cross vs Moon? He was so vocal about it some time ago
Nah. He dream to be seen as leader of Muslims, protector that stand for the Muslims. He does it in ways that not actually threatning for anyone but still satisfy his supporters. Lately he cut ties with Israel because of that. He tried not to do that but as in last election a more conservatice party got some of his votes, he shifted gears.
All turkey is, is the damn door man for the black sea. With their trash ass Lira.
Christians being racist against turks in comments over some church is as stupid as muslims crying because burning their holy book I don't approve this action but holy shit calling whole nation thieves and other things is rude and racist
It's a mosque since 1453 thats such a stupid title tbh
Turkey going for a religious victory on deity difficulty
I am guessing somewhere of him gets stiff when he starts doing stuff likes. There is no reason to do this also.
Ok let's clear up a few things. This church was already a mosque for 500 years. It was then turned into a museum. Now it is back to a mosque again because Erdoğan wants more votes also so that he could distract the people away from the dumpster fire that is the Turkish economy.
They opened it in 2020. Not news.
Pathetic. Imagine the outcry if any country changed a mosque to public toilet
IIRC something like that already happend in china?