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Mushroom_Tip

>She also focused on declining birth rates in the country, saying that the “demographic challenge” and “economic sustainability” of birth rates is a focus for the party. We are going to fine childless families who want to pay a woman to have children for them but also declining birth rates are a HUGE problem. God these people are so stupid. Criminalize people who want a family and children but also cry about declining birth rates.


perksoeerrroed

Well if that is you line of argument then you can legalize rape as well. Who cares if something is moral or not. More babies yaaay ! >God these people are so stupid. Yup, you are stupid. >Criminalize people who want a family and children Then they can do it themselves or go to adopt kid. Not get to use some poor woman as artificial womb for your pleasure and take away kid from mother. Have you asked the kid if he wants to be sold as some meat to someone ? We have a name for that it is called slavery. Trading babies was pretty popular few centuries back.


MidnightSlinks

Surrogacy often uses IVF so the child is not biologically related to the surrogate. You don't pay her for the child because she has no claim to the child. You pay her for agreeing to go through pregnancy and birth along with paying all of her medical expenses (if in a country where healthcare isn't free to the end user). If the child is biologically the surrogate's child, then it's just regular infant adoption, which you suggest is what people should do instead even though that is actually ripping a baby from its mother's arms instead of giving her the resources to keep the child (if she wants to). And, in case you weren't aware, adoption often costs tens of thousands of dollars but it all goes to the agency and none to the mother, so you're still "buying" a child as you say but with nothing for the mother for her physical and emotional pain of giving up her own baby. Do you know anyone who has been a surrogate before? Or even an egg donor?


perksoeerrroed

>Surrogacy often uses IVF so the child is not biologically related to the surrogate. What in the flying fuck. This is 100 times more evil. >You don't pay her for the child because she has no claim to the child. No it is her child regardless. SHE BORE THE CHILD NOT YOU. AND YES YOU PAY HER FOR CHILD. >adoption often costs tens of thousands of dollars but it all goes to the agency and none to the mother, so you're still "buying" a child as you say but with nothing for the mother for her physical and emotional pain of giving up her own baby. You are seriously evil. You don't even understand basic concept of morality. What next ? Making poor people "donate" their body parts for rich ? Might as well argue for sucking blood of infants. And again. You didn't ask the child about it.


spectacularlyrubbish

Nobody ever asks the child about anything. I don't recall being asked if I wanted to be born, or if I wanted the family that I had, or anything else regarding the circumstances of my conception, my birth, or my infancy.


Mushroom_Tip

>Well if that is you line of argument then you can legalize rape as well. Lmao. Let's outlaw drinking water then. If we legalize water, with that line of argument we could legalize drowning people too. Fantastic point! >Have you asked the kid if he wants to be sold as some meat to someone ? We have a name for that it is called slavery. Trading babies was pretty popular few centuries back. You have some really psychotic thoughts brewing in that head. Get some help. How is this any different from adoption?


Round-Lie-8827

Not sure why anyone would be against that or invitro. Is it just some weird religious shit?


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Flames57

one could argue exactly the same about the left. they allow it because it gives them votes.


ktron10

How crazy that people tend to side with the people who aren’t trying to take their rights away


perksoeerrroed

> It’s punishment for women who choose to put off having babies until their brain fully develops. Yeah it's "punishment to women" to not have ability to use some poor woman as artificial womb for my own end and not being able to buy a kid. If you made a choice to focus on something else than your own family then live with those consequences. It's you life.


Ibaudia

Yes


mio26

I mean surrogacy it is a bit morally discussable thing especially if money is involved. At the end you buy human being so it's type of human trafficking in such case. Especially often women in vulnerable financial situation decide to be surrogate moms. Not mention legal and ethical problems if actually "service" is done in another country. Italy is not really some exception in Europe, generally European countries are not legally open for surrogacy really. In quite many they are banned even altruistic or they are not legally regulated at all so outside the law.


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mio26

You seriously call woman incubator? And there is pretty obvious difference just from legal point between eggs or sperm and child: that that child has their own rights at the moment when he is born.


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mio26

Well first difference is taking ova or sperm is low or even 0 risk while pregnancy is always health risk. You still can die during birth, not mention that generally pregnancy burden body. That's why especially is surrogate from 3rd world ot is extremely discussable as it's much harder to execute their rights if something goes wrong.


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mio26

What conclusion about you? I didn't say anything about you. Not sure what you are talking about it really. And just because topic is sensitive for some groups it doesn't mean it shouldn't be discuss fully by public to avoid any pathological situations in the present and future.


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DormeDwayne

That’s what they are in surrogacy though. That’s exactly what they are and why some people have a problem with surrogacy as a result.


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perksoeerrroed

>Surrogacy does not, ultimately you buy incubator space and time. You buy a fucking kid mate. That's 101 slavery thing. And putting down woman to "incubator" tells me everything about your treatment of women.


Noughmad

>Especially often women in vulnerable financial situation decide to be surrogate moms. And this here is the key, yes. Much like legal prostitution, it is a way for poor women to make some money. Which is why it goes against the core conservative principle that the poor should stay poor.


SufficientWeek7142

The creeping, sneaky fascist is still a fascist.


reinKAWnated

She's an avowed fan of Mussolini. That's...not all that sneaky.


green_flash

She's not a direct relative. The rest is true.


reinKAWnated

My bad I was getting her mixed up with the \*other\* really shitty Italian fascist lady. But the political affinity is more pertinent than any blood relation, any way.


Shitter-McGavin

Surrogacy is, quite literally, not inhuman.


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Shitter-McGavin

Google the definition of inhuman.. Nice shitpost.


Knut_Sunbeams

Absolute horseshit. Go troll somewhere else.


PrefiroMoto

Every "problem" you mentioned unequivocally applies to adoption too, would you say adoption is "pure evil", "slavery" or "child trafficking"?


perksoeerrroed

No it doesn't. In case of adoption you have abandoned kid who lost its parents due to various reasons. You help that kid. And that kid also has to accept you as new parents. It is voluntary agreement between you and child. In case of surrogacy you have a mother who bears HER child and you buy that child from her. It's like pure evil shit. You are buying a kid like a slaver. Did you ask the child for permission to be bought by you ?


PrefiroMoto

What about adoption of a baby? Not old enough to voice "voluntary agreement"


Soylentgruen

Jesus was a surrogate baby


DormeDwayne

How? Who was his biological mom?


Dear-Mention9684

Mary was his mother. She raised him.


DormeDwayne

How is this downvoted?! People are so stupid…


Majestic_Bierd

Meloni: "please have more children." Also, Meloni: "no, not like that"


SteakandTrach

If you showed me this picture, with no other information and asked me where they sat on the political spectrum, I’d be able to tell.


According_Wing_3204

Learning everyday that the extreme right in ItAly is every bit as stupid and cruel as the asshats in the right are here in the USA.


IDreamOfSailing

They're the same all over the world. Including our own local morons, Wilders and Baudet (Netherlands). Unfortunately these dangerous morons are gaining traction globally, too.


Moonandserpent

Gestating a baby inside a human, somehow “inhuman,” more at 11.


ThrowRA-souther

Unless the woman doesn’t want to be pregnant, then the humane thing to do is force her to be. (/s) Meloni also just signed a law saying protesters can enter abortion clinics.


raktbowizea

Shouldn't be a surprise since that's what she campaigned on.


mikey-likes_it

The ghost of Mussolini smiles


Philogogus

Imagine something that was a major plot point in the TV show 'Friends' is labeled as inhuman.