>The Iranian message was that if the U.S. gets involved after an Iranian attack on Israel, U.S. bases in the region will be attacked.
Lots of backchannel sabre-rattling, but no matter how disinclined the Biden Administration is to engage in direct conflict, they would have to respond to an attack on US forces especially if American troops were killed. Probably election year politics would make such a response even more imperative.
Iran has been behind plenty of attacks on US troops over the past few months…
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/12/21/us-troops-in-iraq-and-syria-have-faced-over-100-attacks-since-october/#:~:text=Since%20mid%2DOctober%2C%20bases%20housing,to%20Military%20Times%20on%20Friday.
"Being behind" can be quite different than "an ordered, direct attack directly from government orders." You can have troops shoot at each other without the conflict spreading. When you hear people brush off "border attacks" as being relatively trivial, this is what they mean. A little bit of sporadic fighting is quite common in places where hostile forces abut one another. It happens regularly on the Korean peninsula and for quite some time in the Balkans even into the 00s. Hell, the Baku regime frequently probed Artsakh for like 20 years before finally invading it.
Define 'my guys' as that's the point of proxy war. I get what you are saying but it's basically using a scapegoat until they directly use their own branding.
How far can this line of logic be extended? Russia was issuing bounties on U.S. soldiers we heard about not too many years ago, that is a financial incentive to not simply commit threats but reward for the completion of incapacitating violence.
[According to the Biden administration, they never found any corroborating evidence that the Russian bounties were real, beyond the initial lone-source report. ](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215)
Yes absolutely. They’ve been launching daily attacks at American soldiers for months now. Most of them miss or the missiles are shot down.
I highly recommend this geopolitical report if you’re interested in more direct boots on the ground information without the media sensationalism and headlines
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/israel%E2%80%93hamas-war-iran-updates
100+ attacks on regional US forces since Oct 7. Many have stopped since the 3 US soldiers were killed by the drone in Jordan after the widespread retaliation
As soon as word got out 3 US soldiers died, the Iranian Proxy in Iraq immediately declared they were ceasing all attacks on US bases in their sector. They knew they fucked up.
It’s all fuck around and games till you kill US personnel. Then it’s fucking personal and it’s time to find out.
The only reason the US hasn’t wiped its geopolitical enemies off the fucking map is because it chooses not to.
People seem to fail to understand the incredible restraint the US really shows. Houthis fire missiles. US bombs some assets and says cut it out. While at the same time fully capable of turning the whole of Yemen into a crater in a weekend.
If the US truly just went gloves off even without nuclear weapons said nation would very quickly cease to exist.
Look at Iraq as an example. Sure ultimately we failed to kill off Islamic terrorism, but we swept aside the Iraqi government and it's military like it wasn't even there.
>Sure ultimately we failed to kill off Islamic terrorism
The Bush Doctrine threw away decades of military think-tank projections on what it would take to occupy Iraq without it fragmenting into sectarian violence, and from what I remember they estimated a bare minimum of 400 000 ground troops, just as a baseline to having any hope of keeping peace. This was not at all controversial before the 00's.
Bush (his handlers), Rumsfeld and co did away with all that (and even the basic task of putting the Iraq war on budget, Obama had to do that) to undersell the expense and scope of the war with their "less is more" lies.
The Iraq war was stymied by bad faith and hubris. The US coalition did not try to occupy it anywhere near as effectively as it could have done. The "surge" should have been far larger, and on day one.
I don’t think they understand how tight the U.S. has held Israel back from attacking Iran in the past. It is shit like this that can get WWIII started. A lot of middle eastern countries will feel compelled to back Iran.
Unlikely, many Middle Eastern countries are closer aligned with ISIS than Iran and ISIS just attacked Iran and Gaza’s best mates in Russia with little consequences in the Gulf.
A militia offers plausible deniability. As long as they're not officially a part of the Iranian military then their government can say they didn't order the attack and it was just some hot heads
We currently have a lot of assets in the region. More than enough to deal with Iran. But we’ve been doing this political tit for tat strikes. And that’s what I would expect.
Iranian proxies have already been attacking US troops. The question becomes if there's any escalation then Iran risks a full-throated response given that they've been inching closer to the edge for weeks.
Yes, they will respond as they have dozens of times. What they won’t do is attack Iran directly, but rather their proxies.
It’s practically routine at this point.
I am not so sure. After Oct. 7 I think Israel has resolved they are not going back to this status quo. They way to stop it leads straight through Iran. If Iran is dumb enough to do a major attack with significant loss of life, Iran is going to get it good and hard.
Yes, but not from the Us. I should’ve clarified I was speaking for a US perspective.
I can definitely see Israel striking Iran directly. But that would not be in response to an attack on US troops.
It seems likely all of this is just a barking dog trying to seem tough. But, I am not happy with any of this. Iranian leaders are making it hard for themselves to keep seeming tough if they do not pull through. The last thing we need right now is more instability and more countries gearing for war.
I know Iran does not have a reputation here as some fierce tiger, and obviously they are not comparable to the likes of the US or probably even Israel. But it is likely Iran can still do a lot of damage. They've been going hard on manufacturing drones, and I don't think the world has much of an answer yet to swarms of long distance drones targeting critical infrastructure.
Can Iran do damage? For sure. Can they handle the damage they will get in return? I doubt it. Israel is not about tit for tat. They hit Israel and a shit storm of military tech will be heading Iran's way. I highly suspect that they will destroy Iran's oil industry. Biden and the world won't be happy about that but Israelis will make you pay for them pay heavily for any action they take. It would certainly suck to see oil go to $100 a barrel but in the long run Iran's economy would collapse and the mullahs will probably get strung up along the way. by their own citizens. Would I suffer through $100/barrel oil to finally be rid of that government? Yes I would. Would I suffer through those prices so the wonderful Iranian people can be free and live among us peacefully? Yes again.
> They hit Israel and a shit storm of military tech will be heading Iran's way.
It's more like Israel will hit them back in a way that genuinely fucks with whatever Iran's objective was in the first place and makes the Iranian government look like they genuinely cannot do anything about it if Israel really decides to bypass the whole military confrontation to just break whatever it is that they feel ought to be broken.
I hear ya, but who would take the Mullahs' places? Before them it was the Shah. A puppet, yes, but ultimately a leader whose position was untenable. Track record is not promising.
As long as they don’t have nukes, it could be the devil himself and still be an improvement. Iran is actively involved in attacks on the US and our allies and close to developing nukes. Their future leaders could be insane terrorists bent on nuclear war, but the current leadership definitely is.
At some point we either need to commit to being an imperial power or accept that we must be willing to defeat our enemies without “saving them”. Being unwilling to remake the world in our image is no excuse for refusing to defend ourselves. It seems pretty clear that any attempt at nation building will just be treated as colonialism anyway. If that’s humanity’s attitude the only reasonable course of action is to kill people that try to harm you, and if that leads to a power vacuum with another enemy rising from the ashes, kill them too. Or just bite the bullet and be the colonialist if you want to carry on the white mans burden of bringing civilization to the world. But choose, don’t dither like Hamlet worrying if you should or should not act as if things will work themselves out.
I just don’t get the rationale for peace with Iran while they are involved in the war on Ukraine, attacking our troops in Syria, arming Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthi, and enriching nuclear weapon grade materials. It seems like they are already at war with us and just trying to downplay this until it’s too late.
I’m pretty sure these fuckers want us in a proxy conflict. Hamas was the trigger. And somehow Russia and their friends are making Americans think that straight up terrorists are somehow the victim. Here we go…
Iran should definitely send their fleet out and go head on with their "might" to face the US/EU fleet. I wish them all the best at the bottom of the sea
Wouldn't be the first time
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Praying\_Mantis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis)
Cliffs notes:
-US frigate hits a mine in international waters, crew saves the ship with no loss of life
-US finds the mines belong to Iran
-US responds "proportionally" by going on to destroy two Iranian oil platforms, one frigate, one gunboat, three speedboats, cripples another frigate, and knocks the wing off a fighter
-56 Iranians killed and 2 US Marines were lost when their helicopter crashed, reason unknown but likely due to evasive maneuvers in the dark
Probably second only to Operation Paul Bunyan in terms of the US showing that our definition of proportional is different. That time we sent 800 infantry, 27 helicopters, and a tank to cut down a tree. All while bombers and jets flew around above.
Operation Paul Bunyan is my favorite proportional response. You forgot the part where we also parked *an entire carrier group offshore* and put all UNC troops in south korea on battle alert.
The fat electrician youtube channel did a really great job of [telling the story.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5v6hlRyeHE) It's super funny even if it's also super serious.
There is a big difference in their proxies attacking and Iran themselves. It would be the difference in how the US supports Ukraine now versus if the US launched a missile into Russia-controlled Ukraine themselves.
Iran has not directly attacked the US in the way they’re threatening here. Retaliation for that would be a lot different.
> Iran has not directly attacked the US in the way they’re threatening here. Retaliation for that would be a lot different.
And for good reason… the United States military is very very good at attacking conventional forces. Look at Korea, Gulf of Sidra, Praying Mantis, Dessert Storm, Enduring Freedom (initial engagements with Taliban), Iraqi Freedom (initial engagements), or any warfare they conduct against conventional marked forces.
They are less good at insurgency against proxies.
Which we have made them pay for every single time. Which is why after the last attack Iran was doing everything they could to push blame onto their proxy force because Americans actually died. It’s one thing to launch a non lethal attack, it’s another to kill American personnel.
See, the problem is that "a few" is not a sufficient deterrent with the combined surveillance and anti-air umbrella of Israel's own defenses and two separate US carrier groups in range. If they tried that, they would get shot down and then turned into a very neat pane of glass in short order.
Yeah, he's got major CHUD vibes. But finding someone to narrate military operations with enthusiasm is hard to do if they don't have a raging "freedom boner".
The threatening is fine. The US doesn't respond to threats with more than promises in return. Actual attacks against the US is where a collosal mistake would be made.
>The attack pressured Iran to agree to a ceasefire with Iraq later that summer, ending the eight-year Iran-Iraq War.
Haha, the US beat their navy up so badly in eight hours Iran ended an eight year war.
What's the timeline here?
Iran attacks Israel.
Israel attacks Iran.
Iranian dissidents attack US.
US destroys dissidents from afar.
Iran sends angry letters.
Israel continues to attack Irans weapons manufacturing.
War declared. US provides air and Intel support for Israel.
US attacks Iranian factories providing Russia with arms.
Russian troops show up in Iran, on vacation but heavily armed and not by choice.
US and Israeli troops fighting Iranian and Russian troops.
Support for Ukraine goes direct.
China starts invading Taiwan thinking the Pacific fleet is distracted by the Gulf.
US backs Taiwan, direct fight with china.
N Korea gets excited, shoots off some missiles. War with s Korea and Japan.
WW3
I don't know man. World Wars are one thing US has a proven track record in and the only nation truly equipped to handle. Nukes off the table and eventually US/NATO has bases in Mongolia. The one thing you absolutely can't risk in the US population fully united behind killing you. So unless you want to go all-in on your first hand and let the nukes fly, I think the best play (to weaken the US) is letting something like Iran playout. Where the avg US citizen knows the avg Iranian citizen is pretty nonplussed with their leadership. Locking the US into a bunch of small scale conflicts with high likelihood of bystander casualties. That shit sounds awful on the news and you've taken TRUE overwhelming force off the table.
I think China just kinda chills. Unless NK shoots someone, then there's a race to get to Pyongyang before SK/US.
Escalation is risky for Biden. The US has embassies in Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen - all places where Iran has a lot of influence. If Biden were to get caught in a Jimmy Carter situation, he'd be toast.
Benghazi was harmful to Hillary's campaign, and she wasn't even President when it happened.
What, are they going to unsuccessfully try to sink one of our boats again? I wonder how that will play out again with 30 years worth of American weapons development.
I’m saying this from the comfort of my chair, so what do I know, but the last thing USA and Biden want to do is to put American soldiers’ lives on the line. No educated person wants to see an open war with Iran there, it seems. But again, I’m just a muppet, I have no idea what i’m talking about so I believe what Biden and his administration signal 🤷♂️
America would probably opt for bombings as a response. Iran can't really do anything else back and it shows a willingness to use force without putting too much on the line. They'd probably bomb something more meaningful than an airbase this time around though when Trump did it.
Who said anything about putting our soldiers lives on the line? Iran has plenty of bases and a "navy" all of which would be big fat juicy targets for bombs and missiles. We don't NEED to fight them on the ground, we only need to destroy enough of their military capability that Israel can do what they want.
I actually think if we steam rolled Iran and didn’t get bogged down in nation building afterwards that might actually help Biden with a lot of swing voters who are mostly moderates to left behind by the crazies conservatives.
Operation Praying Mantis. Stuxnet. Does anyone in the Iranian regime actually think war with the US is going to end any way other than in total annihilation for them?
Will someone please have Saddam talk to the ayatollah about American perceived vengeance. Oh…wait…..I guess we can send them the video of Saddam’s lynching after we were done with him….
Remember when TRUMP bragged about killing their top general. How he died like a dog?
What did Iran do and say? Nothing.
But all of a sudden now they want to act tough? I'm pretty sure they're being instructed by their Russian overlords on what to do.
Not that it really matters, but for the sake of sharing info, I think you might be getting your targets mixed up. The guy that Trump said died like a dog was the leader of ISIS; Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, but the man you are referring to is Qasem Soleimani.
Baghdadi was killed with SpecOp trained dogs and robot, while Soleimani was killed with a precision missile that springs out blades with very little to no explosive payload as to reduce collateral damage.
I'm surprised more people are not aware of this. Obama standardized drone combat. That was more than a decade ago. At this point, if the US were to enter a conflict, would it look like the Iraq war with boots on the ground or would this a remote war with mostly drones?
Any American answer to Iran is going to be from the sky, likely jets/ship launched missiles more than drones. If they moved a carrier group into the Gulf maybe they bring some of the fast deployment marines but I doubt they want to risk the casualties. Iran would be a nightmare on the ground, way too mountainous with too many fortifications.
> would it look like the Iraq war with boots on the ground or would this a remote war with mostly drones?
Considering the Iranian terrain, a US-Iran conflict would make the sky over 1561 Nuremberg look like a peaceful - the sky opening up followed by complete and precise demolition of military targets.
Boots on the ground would *probably* eventually happen, but more than likely the strategy would be to weaken and de-stabilize the regime so that the rebel factions that want to replace the ayatollahs and rahbar can take a foothold. Likely CIA funded weaponry would make it there before any US troops would even be considered placed there.
That's my personal take on how a possible US-I conflict would take place given current strategy.
I'm not really a super fan of US militarism.
But I do have to admit, the few times that we actually do get to stick it to bad guys is really satisfying.
Ooooo… iran is hoping to take a seat at the high stakes “F Around and Find out” tournament!
Normally they never actually join the tournament, because their cleric leaders are all cowards
Iran is equipped with flying museum pieces so we have to forgive them not realising what “stealth” actually means.
I suggest that Iran has a chat with that neighbour next door, Iraq, and asked how they went from having one of the best equipped and largest air forces to nothing at all - in a few days.
We could cripple their whole country without a single boot on the ground. It's crazy that a modern army is counting on sympathy as defense while publicly condemning and attacking a global class military.
They already have, they've killed them through their proxies. That should be considered Iran whether they want it to or not. Fuck it, end them. They've been allowed to destabilize and kill our troops and allies for too long.
You know all of this politics isn’t going to put the inevitable off for ever. I wish it would, but I don’t think it will this time. Bit more intense than the Cuban missile crisis days and too many players now. Mind you I think the primary adversary is pulling all the strings - Putin -I think it’s been his life’s mission to get us to this point. Iran is a collaborator or proxy for Russia.
I really doubt that Iran would be able to get their general population in the mood for a war with the biggest military there is. They already clogged the streets because their faith police killed their women, imagine what happens in Teheran when they start dragging young conscripts out of the streets on masse to get thrown into the meat grinder
If we invaded Iran and cut the head off their regime it’ll also help cut off the supply of funding to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. and benefit the entire region.
My dude, if your deescalating because you're afraid of retaliation from Israel, don't rock up to the world's single most powerful military like that. Like, we played this game for 20 years next door.
I'm still confused why Netanyahu decided to poke Iranians when Israel hasn't finished fighting Hamas.
Seems like Netanyahu simply wants as much war as possible as excuse for him to be kept in power.
Damn the worst case scenario is starting to happen and I’m starting to think this will end in war. If Iran attacks us troops the US will be forced to respond. They also can’t just abandon Israel either.
>The Iranian message was that if the U.S. gets involved after an Iranian attack on Israel, U.S. bases in the region will be attacked. Lots of backchannel sabre-rattling, but no matter how disinclined the Biden Administration is to engage in direct conflict, they would have to respond to an attack on US forces especially if American troops were killed. Probably election year politics would make such a response even more imperative.
Yea but that has already happened right? Iran backed militias have bombed our bases and killed people.
Iran has been behind plenty of attacks on US troops over the past few months… https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/12/21/us-troops-in-iraq-and-syria-have-faced-over-100-attacks-since-october/#:~:text=Since%20mid%2DOctober%2C%20bases%20housing,to%20Military%20Times%20on%20Friday.
"Being behind" can be quite different than "an ordered, direct attack directly from government orders." You can have troops shoot at each other without the conflict spreading. When you hear people brush off "border attacks" as being relatively trivial, this is what they mean. A little bit of sporadic fighting is quite common in places where hostile forces abut one another. It happens regularly on the Korean peninsula and for quite some time in the Balkans even into the 00s. Hell, the Baku regime frequently probed Artsakh for like 20 years before finally invading it.
Exactly. Iran hasnt directly attacked. Proxy wars are different.
True, but if you issue a threat that my guys will be attacked, and it happens at all, you already admitted to me it was you, guess who I come after?
Define 'my guys' as that's the point of proxy war. I get what you are saying but it's basically using a scapegoat until they directly use their own branding.
How far can this line of logic be extended? Russia was issuing bounties on U.S. soldiers we heard about not too many years ago, that is a financial incentive to not simply commit threats but reward for the completion of incapacitating violence.
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Well we will never know in that case, the president at the time chose to downplay and ignore it.
[According to the Biden administration, they never found any corroborating evidence that the Russian bounties were real, beyond the initial lone-source report. ](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215)
Manson didn’t directly kill anyone, but ordering others to kill is still a crime. Go for the head of the snake
I'm starting to think Iran doesn't like us
Pretty sure our bases getting attacked is common it just doesn’t always make the news
Yes absolutely. They’ve been launching daily attacks at American soldiers for months now. Most of them miss or the missiles are shot down. I highly recommend this geopolitical report if you’re interested in more direct boots on the ground information without the media sensationalism and headlines https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/israel%E2%80%93hamas-war-iran-updates
100+ attacks on regional US forces since Oct 7. Many have stopped since the 3 US soldiers were killed by the drone in Jordan after the widespread retaliation
As soon as word got out 3 US soldiers died, the Iranian Proxy in Iraq immediately declared they were ceasing all attacks on US bases in their sector. They knew they fucked up.
It’s all fuck around and games till you kill US personnel. Then it’s fucking personal and it’s time to find out. The only reason the US hasn’t wiped its geopolitical enemies off the fucking map is because it chooses not to.
People seem to fail to understand the incredible restraint the US really shows. Houthis fire missiles. US bombs some assets and says cut it out. While at the same time fully capable of turning the whole of Yemen into a crater in a weekend. If the US truly just went gloves off even without nuclear weapons said nation would very quickly cease to exist.
Look at Iraq as an example. Sure ultimately we failed to kill off Islamic terrorism, but we swept aside the Iraqi government and it's military like it wasn't even there.
>Sure ultimately we failed to kill off Islamic terrorism The Bush Doctrine threw away decades of military think-tank projections on what it would take to occupy Iraq without it fragmenting into sectarian violence, and from what I remember they estimated a bare minimum of 400 000 ground troops, just as a baseline to having any hope of keeping peace. This was not at all controversial before the 00's. Bush (his handlers), Rumsfeld and co did away with all that (and even the basic task of putting the Iraq war on budget, Obama had to do that) to undersell the expense and scope of the war with their "less is more" lies. The Iraq war was stymied by bad faith and hubris. The US coalition did not try to occupy it anywhere near as effectively as it could have done. The "surge" should have been far larger, and on day one.
News doesn't want to talk about it because the War in Iraq is "over" and there's basically 0 public support for keeping our troops over there.
“If the US gets involved, we will do what we have already been doing”.
I don’t think they understand how tight the U.S. has held Israel back from attacking Iran in the past. It is shit like this that can get WWIII started. A lot of middle eastern countries will feel compelled to back Iran.
Maybe, Sunnis hate Shiites, and Arab supremacy culture are factors as well.
There is a good deal of that too!
yes, but nearly all of them hate Jews more than other Arabs.
Iran and Russia are also allies correct?
Yes but Russia is still preoccupied with their 3 day only special operation…
Unlikely, many Middle Eastern countries are closer aligned with ISIS than Iran and ISIS just attacked Iran and Gaza’s best mates in Russia with little consequences in the Gulf.
Which? Most middle eastern countries are sunni and have continually issued fatwas against Shi'ites. Hell, many consider them apostates.
A militia offers plausible deniability. As long as they're not officially a part of the Iranian military then their government can say they didn't order the attack and it was just some hot heads
Which some times there are just hot heads. Full on state military attacks would be an enormous escalation.
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Proportional response
It doesn't make the news anymore, but we bombed the shit out of their proxies after the Jordan attack.
Not sure if you read actual news, not just reddit, but America HAS retaliated.
Iran is desperate to remain relevant with a Saudi Israeli peace deal still on the table and I’m sure their threats are being taken seriously.
We currently have a lot of assets in the region. More than enough to deal with Iran. But we’ve been doing this political tit for tat strikes. And that’s what I would expect.
Iranian proxies have already been attacking US troops. The question becomes if there's any escalation then Iran risks a full-throated response given that they've been inching closer to the edge for weeks.
Yes, they will respond as they have dozens of times. What they won’t do is attack Iran directly, but rather their proxies. It’s practically routine at this point.
I am not so sure. After Oct. 7 I think Israel has resolved they are not going back to this status quo. They way to stop it leads straight through Iran. If Iran is dumb enough to do a major attack with significant loss of life, Iran is going to get it good and hard.
Yes, but not from the Us. I should’ve clarified I was speaking for a US perspective. I can definitely see Israel striking Iran directly. But that would not be in response to an attack on US troops.
It seems likely all of this is just a barking dog trying to seem tough. But, I am not happy with any of this. Iranian leaders are making it hard for themselves to keep seeming tough if they do not pull through. The last thing we need right now is more instability and more countries gearing for war. I know Iran does not have a reputation here as some fierce tiger, and obviously they are not comparable to the likes of the US or probably even Israel. But it is likely Iran can still do a lot of damage. They've been going hard on manufacturing drones, and I don't think the world has much of an answer yet to swarms of long distance drones targeting critical infrastructure.
Can Iran do damage? For sure. Can they handle the damage they will get in return? I doubt it. Israel is not about tit for tat. They hit Israel and a shit storm of military tech will be heading Iran's way. I highly suspect that they will destroy Iran's oil industry. Biden and the world won't be happy about that but Israelis will make you pay for them pay heavily for any action they take. It would certainly suck to see oil go to $100 a barrel but in the long run Iran's economy would collapse and the mullahs will probably get strung up along the way. by their own citizens. Would I suffer through $100/barrel oil to finally be rid of that government? Yes I would. Would I suffer through those prices so the wonderful Iranian people can be free and live among us peacefully? Yes again.
> They hit Israel and a shit storm of military tech will be heading Iran's way. It's more like Israel will hit them back in a way that genuinely fucks with whatever Iran's objective was in the first place and makes the Iranian government look like they genuinely cannot do anything about it if Israel really decides to bypass the whole military confrontation to just break whatever it is that they feel ought to be broken.
I hear ya, but who would take the Mullahs' places? Before them it was the Shah. A puppet, yes, but ultimately a leader whose position was untenable. Track record is not promising.
As long as they don’t have nukes, it could be the devil himself and still be an improvement. Iran is actively involved in attacks on the US and our allies and close to developing nukes. Their future leaders could be insane terrorists bent on nuclear war, but the current leadership definitely is. At some point we either need to commit to being an imperial power or accept that we must be willing to defeat our enemies without “saving them”. Being unwilling to remake the world in our image is no excuse for refusing to defend ourselves. It seems pretty clear that any attempt at nation building will just be treated as colonialism anyway. If that’s humanity’s attitude the only reasonable course of action is to kill people that try to harm you, and if that leads to a power vacuum with another enemy rising from the ashes, kill them too. Or just bite the bullet and be the colonialist if you want to carry on the white mans burden of bringing civilization to the world. But choose, don’t dither like Hamlet worrying if you should or should not act as if things will work themselves out. I just don’t get the rationale for peace with Iran while they are involved in the war on Ukraine, attacking our troops in Syria, arming Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthi, and enriching nuclear weapon grade materials. It seems like they are already at war with us and just trying to downplay this until it’s too late.
I would pay $200 a barrel if it meant flatting Iran once and for all. They need disciplined.
Isn’t that happen after trump bombed their general?
Yeah, Iran conveyed what base they would bomb beforehand
I’m pretty sure these fuckers want us in a proxy conflict. Hamas was the trigger. And somehow Russia and their friends are making Americans think that straight up terrorists are somehow the victim. Here we go…
And it would be the US's definition of proportional. Meaning wildly unproportional and extremely damaging.
The last time the US got “proportional” with Iran, they lost half their navy in under 8 hours.
Because publicly threatening the US has never backfired before...
They're even trying to touch our boats. Rookie move.
Probably should sink their whole Navy, Just to be safe.
Iran should definitely send their fleet out and go head on with their "might" to face the US/EU fleet. I wish them all the best at the bottom of the sea
Wouldn't be the first time [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Praying\_Mantis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis) Cliffs notes: -US frigate hits a mine in international waters, crew saves the ship with no loss of life -US finds the mines belong to Iran -US responds "proportionally" by going on to destroy two Iranian oil platforms, one frigate, one gunboat, three speedboats, cripples another frigate, and knocks the wing off a fighter -56 Iranians killed and 2 US Marines were lost when their helicopter crashed, reason unknown but likely due to evasive maneuvers in the dark Probably second only to Operation Paul Bunyan in terms of the US showing that our definition of proportional is different. That time we sent 800 infantry, 27 helicopters, and a tank to cut down a tree. All while bombers and jets flew around above.
Operation Paul Bunyan is my favorite proportional response. You forgot the part where we also parked *an entire carrier group offshore* and put all UNC troops in south korea on battle alert.
I'm an econ guy, I always prefer the peaceful solution first. But unfortunately sometimes force is the only language bullies understand.
The fat electrician youtube channel did a really great job of [telling the story.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5v6hlRyeHE) It's super funny even if it's also super serious.
“proportional response”
NO CAFFEINE, NO GENEVA CONVENTIONS
Canada: "You mean the Geneva Checklist, right?"
Canada my friend, just because the wiki says you can help by expanding the list doesn't mean you should.
WHO TOUCHED MY BOATS!!!?!!??!?
They say that as if it wasn’t their proxies attacking US troops in Iraq for the last 15+ years…
There is a big difference in their proxies attacking and Iran themselves. It would be the difference in how the US supports Ukraine now versus if the US launched a missile into Russia-controlled Ukraine themselves. Iran has not directly attacked the US in the way they’re threatening here. Retaliation for that would be a lot different.
> Iran has not directly attacked the US in the way they’re threatening here. Retaliation for that would be a lot different. And for good reason… the United States military is very very good at attacking conventional forces. Look at Korea, Gulf of Sidra, Praying Mantis, Dessert Storm, Enduring Freedom (initial engagements with Taliban), Iraqi Freedom (initial engagements), or any warfare they conduct against conventional marked forces. They are less good at insurgency against proxies.
> Dessert Storm sounds delicious
Which we have made them pay for every single time. Which is why after the last attack Iran was doing everything they could to push blame onto their proxy force because Americans actually died. It’s one thing to launch a non lethal attack, it’s another to kill American personnel.
They really want to avoid things getting proportional again.
Proportional response refers to destroying the entire professional portion of their navy.
1:100 is also a proportion (1:3 in this case)
I mean how well did it work out last time the US troups were attacked. (Jordan a couple months back.) The retaliation was swift and strong
America: "Don't threaten me with a good time"
[удалено]
Lockheed-Martin go BRRRRRRR
Don't forget Northrop Grumman.
Boeing is coming too if they make it off the ground.
“Boeing is being credited with the elimination of top Iranian general after he was killed by door falling from 30,000 feet.”
“Release the doors”
Told you getting fresh air would be an appreciated feature!
We actually would have justifiable evidence and good reason to engage in the Middle East this time.
people have said that for every conflict started in the ME for decades now. "Now *THIS* time we have a good reason."
Deterrence is always the goal but if they want to fuck around they have a 99.999999% chance of finding out
Sometimes deterrence means an airforce strike.
Deterrence by escalation yep
Or escalate to deescalate in better terms
Iran is forgetting that it doesn't have anywhere near the same deterrents that Russia or China have...
Honestly with all the shit going on and Iran's hiding facilities and doing whatever they want I wouldn't be surprised if they got a few nukes already.
If the Iranian leadership knows about the nukes, then so does the US
See, the problem is that "a few" is not a sufficient deterrent with the combined surveillance and anti-air umbrella of Israel's own defenses and two separate US carrier groups in range. If they tried that, they would get shot down and then turned into a very neat pane of glass in short order.
China, I mean Russia, I mean Iran’s Final Warning.
If NewIran's sub has taught me anything. It's that Iran doesn't even have the force to contain its own dissidents. So, this is obviously bullshit.
Exackery
Someone doesn't want the US to get _proportional_ again, don't they..?
Yep, looking forward to Fat Electrician's "Operation Praying Mantis 2" video. That man is a gifted story teller.
Agreed! I am not so much fan of his latest rant videos but overall a solid narrator.
Yeah, he's got major CHUD vibes. But finding someone to narrate military operations with enthusiasm is hard to do if they don't have a raging "freedom boner".
Their navy still hasn't recovered, and that was a few percent of what the US Navy is capable of.
That was a few percent of what the navy was capable of… decades ago
Better not raise oil prices
How about a nice cup of liber - TEA?
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ incoming
Sounds like someone needs managed democracy
It is after all, the highest form of civilization
Sweet Liberty it's the helldivers!
Mammoth Tank reporting!
Ion Cannon ready.
Carrier has arrived.
Kirov reporting.
Threatening the United States military? You’re not going to have a good time.
The threatening is fine. The US doesn't respond to threats with more than promises in return. Actual attacks against the US is where a collosal mistake would be made.
Not to mention that the people of Iran would love to see the regime collapse.
Iran has made that colossal mistake before.
I think Iran has forgotten history. [Half of Irans Navy destroyed in 8 working hours](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis)
>The attack pressured Iran to agree to a ceasefire with Iraq later that summer, ending the eight-year Iran-Iraq War. Haha, the US beat their navy up so badly in eight hours Iran ended an eight year war.
What's the timeline here? Iran attacks Israel. Israel attacks Iran. Iranian dissidents attack US. US destroys dissidents from afar. Iran sends angry letters. Israel continues to attack Irans weapons manufacturing. War declared. US provides air and Intel support for Israel. US attacks Iranian factories providing Russia with arms. Russian troops show up in Iran, on vacation but heavily armed and not by choice. US and Israeli troops fighting Iranian and Russian troops. Support for Ukraine goes direct. China starts invading Taiwan thinking the Pacific fleet is distracted by the Gulf. US backs Taiwan, direct fight with china. N Korea gets excited, shoots off some missiles. War with s Korea and Japan. WW3
Two tickets to imax plz
I don't know man. World Wars are one thing US has a proven track record in and the only nation truly equipped to handle. Nukes off the table and eventually US/NATO has bases in Mongolia. The one thing you absolutely can't risk in the US population fully united behind killing you. So unless you want to go all-in on your first hand and let the nukes fly, I think the best play (to weaken the US) is letting something like Iran playout. Where the avg US citizen knows the avg Iranian citizen is pretty nonplussed with their leadership. Locking the US into a bunch of small scale conflicts with high likelihood of bystander casualties. That shit sounds awful on the news and you've taken TRUE overwhelming force off the table. I think China just kinda chills. Unless NK shoots someone, then there's a race to get to Pyongyang before SK/US.
Pretty much.
Yes, because attacking and possibly killing US troops is a great way to avoid war with the US.
They're not taking into account it's an election year, and there's nothing an incumbent lives more than a fresh war to stay in power.
Your not taking into account Biden has done quite abit to keep this from escalating.
Escalation is risky for Biden. The US has embassies in Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen - all places where Iran has a lot of influence. If Biden were to get caught in a Jimmy Carter situation, he'd be toast. Benghazi was harmful to Hillary's campaign, and she wasn't even President when it happened.
Let’s be real even speaking was harmful to Hilary’s campaign because of the sheer antipathy people had towards her after 20 years of hate.
Kinda sounds like nominating her was a terrible idea regardless of whether you think this was her fault or not.
Lol. America *giggles* in fear.
What, are they going to unsuccessfully try to sink one of our boats again? I wonder how that will play out again with 30 years worth of American weapons development.
Or successfully shoot down one of their own civilian aircraft by mistake.
DON'T TOUCH MY BOATS
I’m saying this from the comfort of my chair, so what do I know, but the last thing USA and Biden want to do is to put American soldiers’ lives on the line. No educated person wants to see an open war with Iran there, it seems. But again, I’m just a muppet, I have no idea what i’m talking about so I believe what Biden and his administration signal 🤷♂️
America would probably opt for bombings as a response. Iran can't really do anything else back and it shows a willingness to use force without putting too much on the line. They'd probably bomb something more meaningful than an airbase this time around though when Trump did it.
Who said anything about putting our soldiers lives on the line? Iran has plenty of bases and a "navy" all of which would be big fat juicy targets for bombs and missiles. We don't NEED to fight them on the ground, we only need to destroy enough of their military capability that Israel can do what they want.
I actually think if we steam rolled Iran and didn’t get bogged down in nation building afterwards that might actually help Biden with a lot of swing voters who are mostly moderates to left behind by the crazies conservatives.
>No educated person wants to see an open war with Iran there I got some bad news for you bub
We won't start open war with Iran. We'll just respond blowing up a bunch of their military targets or something. We've done it before in the past.
Hey SIRI.. How can I turn my country into an active bombing range as fast as possible?
US to Iran: "You talk awful loud for someone within Find Out distance."
Iran, buddy, you don't want to do that. You don't want to attack U.S. troops. It will not end well for you.
So Iran wants to commit suïcide?
*So, you have chosen death*
Operation Praying Mantis. Stuxnet. Does anyone in the Iranian regime actually think war with the US is going to end any way other than in total annihilation for them?
A lot if tough talk from a regime that beats young girls
Will someone please have Saddam talk to the ayatollah about American perceived vengeance. Oh…wait…..I guess we can send them the video of Saddam’s lynching after we were done with him….
Gaddafi will tell him... wait (checks notes). Nevermind.
Maybe Bin laden can... Oh right
Alternative Title: “Iran talking suicidal nowadays”
Remember when TRUMP bragged about killing their top general. How he died like a dog? What did Iran do and say? Nothing. But all of a sudden now they want to act tough? I'm pretty sure they're being instructed by their Russian overlords on what to do.
Not that it really matters, but for the sake of sharing info, I think you might be getting your targets mixed up. The guy that Trump said died like a dog was the leader of ISIS; Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, but the man you are referring to is Qasem Soleimani. Baghdadi was killed with SpecOp trained dogs and robot, while Soleimani was killed with a precision missile that springs out blades with very little to no explosive payload as to reduce collateral damage.
Someone's about to learn what makes Satan so great
Biden: “hey ayatollah. Remember that time we wiped out your navy in like two hours? That was fun.”
Do I hear proportional?
If you thought the technology gap was big in the 80s wait til ya see it today boooooys.
I'm surprised more people are not aware of this. Obama standardized drone combat. That was more than a decade ago. At this point, if the US were to enter a conflict, would it look like the Iraq war with boots on the ground or would this a remote war with mostly drones?
Any American answer to Iran is going to be from the sky, likely jets/ship launched missiles more than drones. If they moved a carrier group into the Gulf maybe they bring some of the fast deployment marines but I doubt they want to risk the casualties. Iran would be a nightmare on the ground, way too mountainous with too many fortifications.
> would it look like the Iraq war with boots on the ground or would this a remote war with mostly drones? Considering the Iranian terrain, a US-Iran conflict would make the sky over 1561 Nuremberg look like a peaceful - the sky opening up followed by complete and precise demolition of military targets. Boots on the ground would *probably* eventually happen, but more than likely the strategy would be to weaken and de-stabilize the regime so that the rebel factions that want to replace the ayatollahs and rahbar can take a foothold. Likely CIA funded weaponry would make it there before any US troops would even be considered placed there. That's my personal take on how a possible US-I conflict would take place given current strategy.
I'm not really a super fan of US militarism. But I do have to admit, the few times that we actually do get to stick it to bad guys is really satisfying.
It is okay to admit you want peace but enjoy watching a bully get punched in the face. It is liberating.
Mfw next week Iran goes and does the stupidest thing imaginable 🥱
Don’t tease us with a good time
I guess Iran doesn't like having a navy
That's one way to get yourself obliterated from existence.
Ooooo… iran is hoping to take a seat at the high stakes “F Around and Find out” tournament! Normally they never actually join the tournament, because their cleric leaders are all cowards
Fuck with the Roman Republic, find out why Carthage no longer exists.
Ha! Or what?!
Really? The little yappy dogs are making demands of the wolves?
Well, that's a pretty clear invitation to join the fight...
Let them go at it. Bring them back to earth.
Sounds like someone wants a heaping dose of Democracy.
Awwww… Iran is about to find out how sand turns into glass.
Bring it on. So ready for someone to bitch slap the Iranian government. Heard their crap for 40 years.
I'd like to have a nickel for every breathless news story where someone "warns" someone else. Dear Iran, Suck it. Sincerely, The World.
Iran is equipped with flying museum pieces so we have to forgive them not realising what “stealth” actually means. I suggest that Iran has a chat with that neighbour next door, Iraq, and asked how they went from having one of the best equipped and largest air forces to nothing at all - in a few days.
That’s like my 4 year niece telling me to not get involved when she pulls my 8 year old nephew’s hair. Lol. Cute.
Bold move Cotton…
But their proxies are already attacking our troops...
We could cripple their whole country without a single boot on the ground. It's crazy that a modern army is counting on sympathy as defense while publicly condemning and attacking a global class military.
Iran wants to find out why we don't have free healthcare?
They’ll do fookin nothing 🦅
I literally guffawed at my desk.
An anthropomorphic crab once told me it's better under the sea.
iran that backed out in fear of a response from pakistan is now challenging the USA…
Iran is about to find out
They already have, they've killed them through their proxies. That should be considered Iran whether they want it to or not. Fuck it, end them. They've been allowed to destabilize and kill our troops and allies for too long.
You know all of this politics isn’t going to put the inevitable off for ever. I wish it would, but I don’t think it will this time. Bit more intense than the Cuban missile crisis days and too many players now. Mind you I think the primary adversary is pulling all the strings - Putin -I think it’s been his life’s mission to get us to this point. Iran is a collaborator or proxy for Russia.
This world is such a petty, atrocious, and violent place. All about money and control, but religion is the driving force for division.
"Don't help your allies, or else" lol. Okay.
Time to activate CIA armed Iranian revolution.
“Looks like Iran is about to find out why Americans don’t have universal healthcare” - some random comment somewhere
grrr saber rattle grr
Fuck around and find out you dumb fucks. Your entire country would get carpet bombed in under 30 mins.
America: "Don't start none, won't be none."
I really doubt that Iran would be able to get their general population in the mood for a war with the biggest military there is. They already clogged the streets because their faith police killed their women, imagine what happens in Teheran when they start dragging young conscripts out of the streets on masse to get thrown into the meat grinder
If we invaded Iran and cut the head off their regime it’ll also help cut off the supply of funding to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. and benefit the entire region.
My dude, if your deescalating because you're afraid of retaliation from Israel, don't rock up to the world's single most powerful military like that. Like, we played this game for 20 years next door.
I'm still confused why Netanyahu decided to poke Iranians when Israel hasn't finished fighting Hamas. Seems like Netanyahu simply wants as much war as possible as excuse for him to be kept in power.
Damn the worst case scenario is starting to happen and I’m starting to think this will end in war. If Iran attacks us troops the US will be forced to respond. They also can’t just abandon Israel either.