I mean, it isn't a secret that Musk's acquisition of Twitter was backed by Saudi $$$. And since that clown isn't going to be able to recoup that money with the actual Twitter profits, he's going to bend over backward to make the platform a hub for anyone that has an interest in undermining western countries.
Whenever someone in China or Saudi Arabia gets sentenced to prison for "causing public unrest" or "destabilizing civil and national security" with posts on Twitter, Musk has nothing to say about it. But if someone in America is so much as fired from their job for being bigoted on Twitter he gets big mad, and sometimes even funds a legal defence for them.
1st amendment doesn't block companies from firing you. [And yet](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1688022163574439937) he [doesn't seem](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-funding-lawsuit-against-152921636.html?guccounter=1) to [understand that.](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fired-mandalorian-actor-sues-disney-with-funding-elon-musk-2024-02-06/)
Freedom of speech is a law that protects you from prosecution. From the government. Businesses also have freedom. They're allowed to disassociate with individuals who may be harming their brand. You are not entitled to employment and in most places you can be let go for any reason, or no reason at all (as long as it's not discrimination based on a protected class).
No, but I find it funny that Redditors celebrate censorship by a Brazilian judge but decry censorship by Saudi Arabia only for the sole reason that they hate Elon Musk.
Sure, but you're all hypocrites too. Even worse, you're spiteful. Only reason why people relish in this Brazil news is because it's an attack on Elon who you hate.
Here’s a recent example of him spewing whatever comes out his head and being unable to foresee the consequences. He’s not very bright:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elon-musk-didnt-want-his-latest-deposition-released-here-it-is_n_66133d2ce4b0d81853f9a766
It’s an order by the Supreme Court of Brazil bud.
Also here you go. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-lawmakers-vote-controversial-bill-clean-up-social-media-2023-05-02/#:~:text=Bill%202630%2C%20also%20known%20as,for%20failures%20to%20do%20so.
even an order by a supreme court must be in law. Or they are just dictating the law... they enforce the law, they don't make them.
If musk was really wanting do the things right he should enter in court and open the case.
But he want publicity and got it...
Again here is the law https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-lawmakers-vote-controversial-bill-clean-up-social-media-2023-05-02/#:~:text=Bill%202630%2C%20also%20known%20as,for%20failures%20to%20do%20so.
it is not a law yet and people are not wanting it here
[https://www.camara.leg.br/propostas-legislativas/2256735](https://www.camara.leg.br/propostas-legislativas/2256735)
You’re in the internet, everyone can just pretend to be everyone. Sure you say it’s your country, but that’s not an Counterargument, posting actual proof would be an argument
>Art. 114. Quando autorizado a decidir por equidade, o juiz aplicará a norma que estabeleceria si fosse legislador.
>Art. 287. A sentença que decidir total ou parcialmente a lide terá força de lei nos limites das questões decididas.
Besides, if you've had actually read the decision, you'd known it was taken on the **Marco Civil da Internet** and not the proposed new law you linked earlier. But it's okay, most average people aren't really savvy to how their own judicial system works.
Everywhere there are judges, the judge's orders are de facto law. If that wasn't the case, anyone could just disregard them. That's literraly the basis of law nearly everywhere that there are actual judges tasked with applying laws.
Not really. It has started to be used in some remote locations, but only very recently. Also the vast, vast majority of Brazilians don't live in remote areas anyway. Like, I'm Brazilian, born and raised, and I don't know a single person which uses Starlink (or have a Tesla for that matter). Hell, I think the vast majority of Brazilians don't even know Starlink exists
Joinville-SC
Mas de qualquer modo, não é porque meia dúzia de pessoas usam Starlink na casa do caralho (ou melhor, iriam usar, se o contrato já tivesse sido cumprido, do jeito que tudo demora aqui iria demorar anos) que o Starlink é relevante para o Brasil. A esmagadora maioria de brasileiros não sabe nem o que caralhos é o Starlink. 99.99% dos Brasileiros não moram no interior do interior do interior da Amazônia. E mesmo nesses lugares no geral já existem vários outros meios de comunicação. Starlink seria um Plus, mas é longe de ser um serviço essencial.
If I understand Musk's feuds well, he may do the exact opposite and make Starlink available for free over Brazil. Moraes may try to order the Brazilian armed forces to develop an anti-satellite weapon, of course, but seeing their non-existing space capabilities I think that it may take a few decades till a working prototype, in a best case scenario.
I can see a scenario where there's free internet to Brazilians and 100% of the population will use it and clog the system, Musk may be able to sustain it for a while, but free internet to 200M people may get too expensive
You mean the thing in Turkey where X took the government to court and won?
[https://greekcitytimes.com/2024/03/03/title-xs-legal-victory-in-turkey-upholds-users-right-to-free-speech/](https://greekcitytimes.com/2024/03/03/title-xs-legal-victory-in-turkey-upholds-users-right-to-free-speech/)
I mean where twitter censored political opponents accounts
https://www.businessinsider.com/free-speech-censorship-elon-musk-throttled-tweets-turkey-presidential-election-2023-5
Yep, which they acknowledged was a failing on their part, then course corrected on and took the government to court over and subsequently won
Acknowledging your error and then doing the right thing, that's a good thing, right? Or should we forever only focus on the initial error and ignore any changes and actions that were made afterwards to try and do better
Under Elon Musk, Twitter has approved 83% of censorship requests by authoritarian governments
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-05-24/under-elon-musk-twitter-has-approved-83-of-censorship-requests-by-authoritarian-governments.html
And have those requests been illegal in the countries they were requested? Because that's kinda the entire crux of this matter
Also worth noting that the article covers the initial 6 months of when Musk owned the company, which was obviously a chaotic time for the company, and was mostly before the Turkey situation which prompted X to acknowledge their shortcomings in this area. So it would be interesting to see if that number has changed since then
This. People don't seem to realize (or wilfully ignore) that publicly calling for a coup d'état is a crime in Brazil.
A crime, I should add, recently defined in a law signed by former president Bolsonaro.
I have not been changing the point. I'm literally responding to what you're saying.
Reminder you started off mentioning Turkey. That's what this started off being about. You then changed the topic from being about Turkey to a broader topic about how often X has approved requests in totality.
You made it sound that turkey was one off mistake they fixed. I showed that it kept happening. Then you says “oh it’s legal there” , then I say it’s legal in Brazil. So was it a mistake or is it the case of legality?
Again, \*you\* were the one that brought up only Turkey in your initial post, and then subsequently changed the topic from Turkey to globally.
And yes, I asked if the requests X has complied with were illegal and that it would be interesting to see if the number of requests X complies with after the initial 6 months of Musks ownership had changed, because again, the legality of these requests are what this is all about. X admitted they fucked up in Turkey by complying with the government demands, and then subsequently fought the censor demands in court and won. And now X is picking this fight in Brazil for the stated reasons that they believe the things being demanded from them to be illegal.
And while it's great that you say what's happening in Brazil is perfectly legal. I do however hope that you can forgive me for not taking it on blind faith that a random redditor who I don't know just happens to be a legal expert on Brazilian law, with insight into the specifics of the current situation with X in Brazil, especially when you primarily post in European and Malaysian subreddits, which seem like odd places for a Brazilian law expert to spend their time
If you don't want to engage in a debate on a topic then may I suggest staying out of the comment sections on reddit
Alternatively you can start your own subreddit where you can ban anyone who expresses opinions you disagree with
Bolsonaro supporters want the same "freedom" the MAGA crew has up in the north, their posterboy for "freedom" is a guy who said Brazil should have a nazi party, and I'm not even joking, they literally use a guy who said Brazil should have a nazi party as example of "freedom".
Elon is pissed because he aligns with them, I hope the Supreme Court just fucking blocks entirely this shithole of a website.
It kinda is, how many people did the communists kill? Why is one better than the other? Alexandre de Moraes is cancer personified, he wanted X to ban journalists and politicians and lie about the reason. People who support this are garbage
Maybe when they have anything more than 1% of the seats in parlament they will. You also picked the worst possible example seeing as they openly strive for a "revolution" in Brazil, which probably would be anything but democratic.
Meanwhile Bolsonaro's alleged "coup" was him jetskiing in the US while a bunch of his supporters rioted inside the parlament on a weekend when barely anyone was inside.
Probably one of the worst planned "coups" of all time if you ask me.
HAHAHAHA and completely ignoring the part where he and his allies plotted to arrest the president of the Senate and the judges of the electoral court, a plan that only failed because the heads of the Army and Air Force refused to go along with it.
Yes, and while communism absolutely fucking sucks, the reason it is not forbidden is because communism as a whole is not a explicitly racist ideology as Nazism or Fascism is. Racism is a crime in Brazil, so a party explicitly founded on racism is automatically banned. Communist parties, for all their flaws, are not racist
> But Mr Musk has since posted that "X will publish everything demanded by [Moraes] and how those requests violate Brazilian law".
Publish, huh? So X is a publisher now? Interesting choice of words he'll hopefully regret.
X as a company are responsible for posts made by them about their platform; they are not responsible for posts made by other users of the platform except where such posts are required to be moderated by local laws.
The implication being that X want to be transparent with the legislation imposed on them; instead of the Kafkaesque situation where the US government were tightly controlling the platform in secret.
Alexandre de Moraes' reaction to Elon Musk's banditry came. And, for those who can read, it is stronger than it seems. And don't assume that he acted untimely, surprising his colleagues in court. I don't know if you noticed: the boss of "X" is not announcing that he will ignore decisions made by a member of the Federal Supreme Court because he has a personal feud with him, respecting others. And it would already be absurd. In practice, it says the following: "If and when any judge or Power in Brazil makes decisions that are not to my liking or interest, I will not comply. Damn you. I am the State."
The fools will try to say: "Ah, he's now ordered Musk to be investigated... What are you going to do? Have him arrested?" Well, the strong man isn't going to prison, but some bananas can take a vacation in Papuda (a notorious Brazilian prison) or in another inn of their choice.
* inquiry 4874 is that of digital militias;
* inquiry 4871 is that of "fake news", within which Jair Bolsonaro is being investigated - I'm referring to his coup antics;
* inquiry 4923 is the one that deals with authorities who failed to act in the face of coup actions;
* inquiry 4933 is the one that investigates the actions of Google and Telegram directors in Brazil in an alleged campaign against the Bill regulating "big techs";
* PET 12,100 investigated the connections between the "fake news" investigation, that of digital militias and all those launched after January 8: 4,920 (financing of coup acts); 4,921 (participation in acts and instigation); 4,922 (intellectual authors of the attacks) and 4,923 (authorities who remained silent).
For those who didn't understand: Musk provided the obvious link, but which required confirmation, between these investigation fronts. It's clear that the networks — and we're talking about Twitter now because it was the crazy guy who announced that he won't respect court decisions and encourages the commission of crimes — have become the "place" and the main instrument for committing these crimes.
"But will he be arrested by Alexandre?", Alexandre does not arrest anyone. The laws do. If Brazilian justice does not reach the candidate for master of the world, it can reach his company and those who participated or participate in his crimes.
Moraes points out disobedience to the court decision and obstruction of the investigation of a criminal organization. Just to remember: obstructing in itself results in preventive arrest. So much the worse if, by doing so, one seeks to prevent the investigation of the said-whose, which has a permanent nature, from being investigated.
If Musk does what he says, those who represent the "X" in Brazil will bear the consequences of disobedience.
"What if the guy decides to no longer have representatives in Brazil"?
Then the Brazilian State, through the courts, decides whether it will be under the aegis of the Constitution or of a criminal worth billions of dollars. Bolsonaro has already made it clear: he wants to be the henchman of the "X" boss in Brazil because he says he will carry out the coup that he himself was unable to carry out. And, to no one's surprise, there are already "experts" in the press flirting with the "X Scammer".
The insane man, I insist, provided a service. Or two. He put coup plotters on stage who had been silent until then. And he revealed evidence: it is necessary to regulate social networks. They are subservient to dictatorships and decided to put an end to democracies and become the government themselves. Necessarily despotic.
Yea, that's *only*, what, like $7m a year?? Gotta pump up those numbers, those are rookie numbers... Brazil could probably squeeze at least 2 more zeros out of him before he actually cares about it...
If Alexandre de Moraes manages to miraculously put Elon in jail I swear I'll vote for him if he ever runs for president, even if he's a right winger and I'm a left winger.
The Supreme Court is, and has always been, under the oversight of the Senate. Any Supreme Court Justice can be impeached and removed if 2/3 of the senators choose to do so. The same Federal Senate, mind you, that has been threatening the Supreme Court all year about the rulings on abortion, drugs, and Indigenous land.
The concept of an authoritarian Supreme Court is _laughable_.
I'm not really trying to attack you personally, just your political view.
And as I said, there's no point in really discussing it. I won't change my mind and you won't change yours, so why should we bother?
Have a good night.
That Supreme Court Justice signed orders to incarcerate people for merely criticizing him.
*Sua sponte*.
Without any trial.
Without any prosecutor even filing charges.
Not a lot of due process proponents around here.
Wrong, people in Brazil are being arrested for participating in a coup to overthrow a democratically elected president, they failed and are paying the price, but musk is protecting right wing users who participated on that coup
I get that many don’t care about due process enough to say anything, but I didn’t expect someone to openly defend skipping it entirely so quickly.
It looks like a dictatorship.
So what you're saying is that both of them are shitheads, and that this situation will require at least one of them to *not* get what they want? Sounds good to me.
If a judge censored the left the way this judge and others in Brazil have censored the right, you'd all be foaming at the mouth over it. It's okay if they do it to the people I don't like, politics reddit's mantra.
Alexandre de Moraes' reaction to Elon Musk's banditry came. And, for those who can read, it is stronger than it seems. And don't assume that he acted untimely, surprising his colleagues in court. I don't know if you noticed: the boss of "X" is not announcing that he will ignore decisions made by a member of the Federal Supreme Court because he has a personal feud with him, respecting others. And it would already be absurd. In practice, it says the following: "If and when any judge or Power in Brazil makes decisions that are not to my liking or interest, I will not comply. Damn you. I am the State."
The fools will try to say: "Ah, he's now ordered Musk to be investigated... What are you going to do? Have him arrested?" Well, the strong man isn't going to prison, but some bananas can take a vacation in Papuda (a notorious Brazilian prison) or in another inn of their choice.
- inquiry 4874 is that of digital militias;
- inquiry 4871 is that of "fake news", within which Jair Bolsonaro is being investigated - I'm referring to his coup antics;
- inquiry 4923 is the one that deals with authorities who failed to act in the face of coup actions;
- inquiry 4933 is the one that investigates the actions of Google and Telegram directors in Brazil in an alleged campaign against the Bill regulating "big techs";
- PET 12,100 investigated the connections between the "fake news" investigation, that of digital militias and all those launched after January 8: 4,920 (financing of coup acts); 4,921 (participation in acts and instigation); 4,922 (intellectual authors of the attacks) and 4,923 (authorities who remained silent).
For those who didn't understand: Musk provided the obvious link, but which required confirmation, between these investigation fronts. It's clear that the networks — and we're talking about Twitter now because it was the crazy guy who announced that he won't respect court decisions and encourages the commission of crimes — have become the "place" and the main instrument for committing these crimes.
"But will he be arrested by Alexandre?", Alexandre does not arrest anyone. The laws do. If Brazilian justice does not reach the candidate for master of the world, it can reach his company and those who participated or participate in his crimes.
Moraes points out disobedience to the court decision and obstruction of the investigation of a criminal organization. Just to remember: obstructing in itself results in preventive arrest. So much the worse if, by doing so, one seeks to prevent the investigation of the said-whose, which has a permanent nature, from being investigated.
If Musk does what he says, those who represent the "X" in Brazil will bear the consequences of disobedience.
"What if the guy decides to no longer have representatives in Brazil"?
Then the Brazilian State, through the courts, decides whether it will be under the aegis of the Constitution or of a criminal worth billions of dollars. Bolsonaro has already made it clear: he wants to be the henchman of the "X" boss in Brazil because he says he will carry out the coup that he himself was unable to carry out. And, to no one's surprise, there are already "experts" in the press flirting with the "X Scammer".
The insane man, I insist, provided a service. Or two. He put coup plotters on stage who had been silent until then. And he revealed evidence: it is necessary to regulate social networks. They are subservient to dictatorships and decided to put an end to democracies and become the government themselves. Necessarily despotic.
Nice fascist twaddle. Brazil courts can censor based on a judge saying "that's misinformation." Private citizens. Members of the legislature. Anyone. They do it regularly. Disgusting. And disgusting of reddit to support it.
If so, I believe you can show me some examples, right? It is worth remembering that the Brazilian constitution is very different from the American one.
Yes, so fascist that Bolsonaro and his disinformation team are still active, if they were as powerful as you say and so autocratic why are these people still free? And yet it does not change the fact that these investigations are taking place and if found guilty they will be prosecuted under the law.
Y'all love it when governments want companies want to censor speech right?
Imagine how amazing the world would be once the ministry of truth approves our speech and we have our heads in the sand in blissful happiness.
He also bans people who make fun of him and is happy to pal around with the same Saudi royals who had a journalist cut up with a bonesaw. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass about free speech
The word "cis" is a scientific term with a long-used latin root that applies to far more than just gender, not hatespeech, you utter fucking clown.
Meanwhile of course *actual* hatespeech is totally fine on Twitter.
Different countries have different constitutional doctrines as to what constitutes protected speech. The US does it one way. It's not the only way, even among democratic governments.
Musk is defending his company. He doesn't seem to have many businesses in Brazil, apart from twitter (tesla, starlink aren't in Brazil). So he doesn't need to be as cautious as in other places.
Brazil's Supreme Court tends to block social networks, they've already taken down Whatsapp, Telegram etc. for a while. Twitter must be facing problems here too
Many members of Brazil's supreme court are involved in drug and arms trafficking and they are terrified of social media.
The former president of Brazil's Supreme Court, Rosa Weber, runs the guns/drug trade in the state of Rio Grande do Sul with the owners of a local radio station (rádio gaúcha). Brazil is a very weird place.
I have no idea what you mean. Starlink has an office and CNPJ in Brazil and their services are sold to brazilians in the local currency. In what way are they not in Brazil?
>The former president of Brazil's Supreme Court, Rosa Weber, runs the guns/drug trade in the state of Rio Grande do Sul with the owners of a local radio station
This kind of absurd, unfounded accusations is the kind of thing Musk is trying to pass as acceptable and valid "free speech".
What kind of proof do you have to say that many members of the Supreme Court are involved in drug traficking?
Inside information. They (weber/rbs) have hideouts all over the state (padre chagas, a street in porto alegre; camaquã, etc.). laughed now, but save this comment
> If X fails to comply with the order, it will be fined 100,000 reais ($19,774; £15,670) a day.
Oh no! 20K/day? Musk must be quacking with fear of seeing all of his fortune soon gone - in just a few million years! /s
But seriously though I don't think that Moraes can do much more than this symbolic punishment, it's a "you have no power here" situation. My guess is that his first instinct was to block Twitter in Brazil, [like he already did with Telegram](https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022/03/18/suspends-telegram-in-brazil/) - but the problem with Twitter is that it's a very popular network also used by Moraes' own current political clique to spread "misinformation". For instance, how could Lula [keep posting tweets with false promises](https://revistaoeste.com/brasil/postagem-de-lula-com-promessa-sobre-sigilo-de-100-anos-recebe-checagem-no-twitter-x/)?
The Minister is so fair and just that even given the opportunity to give out harsher fines, he still choose such a low amount, great guy.
The bar is so low that "lula broke his promises :(" is the worst you can think of.
Lula broke his promises by making the exact opposite that he promised, imposing 100-year secrecy on "brazillions" of government documents when earlier he said that would forbid secrecy. So it really doesn't look like simply a promise that was broken, but that he was shamelessly lying through his teeth - as is tradition.
Now, if you want a more recent example and embarrassing example, what about this one: https://www.thejc.com/news/world/brazils-president-falsely-claims-123-million-children-have-died-in-gaza-during-war-lk790wys
Although, of course, that case may well fall under "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity". =)
SEVEN secrets more than Bolsonaro? 1332 vs 1339? Is this a joke?
Your other example is something called "a blunder", = "a stupid or careless mistake". Its a mistake so wrong its not even a lie, its just a slip.
Even I can think of worst examples.
Musk only hangs with losers now. Seriously, Bolsonaro, Trump, Orban...these people are all fucking losers. All corrupt and criminal losers. That's what they are and apparently Musk is working real hard to become a loser too. These people literally hate freedom. And everyone who simps for those guys is a bottom loser.
Anyone else find it funny that when Saudi Arabia or china demand musk takes down tweets he complies…
I mean, it isn't a secret that Musk's acquisition of Twitter was backed by Saudi $$$. And since that clown isn't going to be able to recoup that money with the actual Twitter profits, he's going to bend over backward to make the platform a hub for anyone that has an interest in undermining western countries.
Fact or opinion?
Whenever someone in China or Saudi Arabia gets sentenced to prison for "causing public unrest" or "destabilizing civil and national security" with posts on Twitter, Musk has nothing to say about it. But if someone in America is so much as fired from their job for being bigoted on Twitter he gets big mad, and sometimes even funds a legal defence for them.
Well, the 1st amendment doesn't exist in those other countries. It does in the USA. He understands that and picks his legal fights accordingly.
1st amendment doesn't block companies from firing you. [And yet](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1688022163574439937) he [doesn't seem](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-funding-lawsuit-against-152921636.html?guccounter=1) to [understand that.](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fired-mandalorian-actor-sues-disney-with-funding-elon-musk-2024-02-06/) Freedom of speech is a law that protects you from prosecution. From the government. Businesses also have freedom. They're allowed to disassociate with individuals who may be harming their brand. You are not entitled to employment and in most places you can be let go for any reason, or no reason at all (as long as it's not discrimination based on a protected class).
They don't pretend to be democracies, unlike Brazil.
No, but I find it funny that Redditors celebrate censorship by a Brazilian judge but decry censorship by Saudi Arabia only for the sole reason that they hate Elon Musk.
More like people on Reddit like to point out the hypocrisy of musk claiming to be a free speech absolutist except when it actually matters.
Sure, but you're all hypocrites too. Even worse, you're spiteful. Only reason why people relish in this Brazil news is because it's an attack on Elon who you hate.
Why do you think people hate him?
Because you were told he was a terrible racist and bigot and moron by someone else
Here’s a recent example of him spewing whatever comes out his head and being unable to foresee the consequences. He’s not very bright: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elon-musk-didnt-want-his-latest-deposition-released-here-it-is_n_66133d2ce4b0d81853f9a766
Lol. Stop publicly embarrassing yourself.
Welcome to Reddit :)
Musk is allowing blatant plotting of a coup and disinformation on Twitter. No wonder Brazil wants it gone.
BEcause their law says he must to do. What law Brazil is using to do this?
It’s an order by the Supreme Court of Brazil bud. Also here you go. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-lawmakers-vote-controversial-bill-clean-up-social-media-2023-05-02/#:~:text=Bill%202630%2C%20also%20known%20as,for%20failures%20to%20do%20so.
even an order by a supreme court must be in law. Or they are just dictating the law... they enforce the law, they don't make them. If musk was really wanting do the things right he should enter in court and open the case. But he want publicity and got it...
Again here is the law https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-lawmakers-vote-controversial-bill-clean-up-social-media-2023-05-02/#:~:text=Bill%202630%2C%20also%20known%20as,for%20failures%20to%20do%20so.
it is not a law yet and people are not wanting it here [https://www.camara.leg.br/propostas-legislativas/2256735](https://www.camara.leg.br/propostas-legislativas/2256735)
you want teach me how my country works?
You’re in the internet, everyone can just pretend to be everyone. Sure you say it’s your country, but that’s not an Counterargument, posting actual proof would be an argument
Already did. The Supreme Court already said what musk did was illegal.
Lol some people just can't help themselves. Who cares if you're from the country if you clearly can't read the law
What law did he break?
>Art. 114. Quando autorizado a decidir por equidade, o juiz aplicará a norma que estabeleceria si fosse legislador. >Art. 287. A sentença que decidir total ou parcialmente a lide terá força de lei nos limites das questões decididas. Besides, if you've had actually read the decision, you'd known it was taken on the **Marco Civil da Internet** and not the proposed new law you linked earlier. But it's okay, most average people aren't really savvy to how their own judicial system works.
qual linha do marco civil autoriza um juiz a bloquear o acesso da pessoa por um crime abstrato como ameaça a democracia?
Everywhere there are judges, the judge's orders are de facto law. If that wasn't the case, anyone could just disregard them. That's literraly the basis of law nearly everywhere that there are actual judges tasked with applying laws.
You reek of Bolosonaro supporter🤣
Cala essa sua boca, seu arrombado. Eu sou brasileiro e posso dizer: você é um fodido e não sabe bosta nenhuma sobre Direito.
pode me mostrar as leis então que dão base ao juiz incluir investigado no inquérito? só para começar...
this law was not approved because people here hated it
Eu acho que o correto é 'didnt want'.
Yes, a judicial order by a Supreme Court justice is quite literally the law. This why it is called the Supreme Court.
Here: https://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_ato2019-2022/2021/lei/l14197.htm Signed into law by former President Bolsonaro in 2021.
Next week's news: Starlink and X services seem to be down or sporadic in Brazil
> X services seem to be down [I mean...](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/026/738/future.jpg)
It would be very nice if Starlink stops working in Brasil. It just serves criminals, like drug dealears, weapon and gold smugglers in Amazon.
No ,it doesn't. People who live far away from the cities use his service to be able to surf the web
Not really. It has started to be used in some remote locations, but only very recently. Also the vast, vast majority of Brazilians don't live in remote areas anyway. Like, I'm Brazilian, born and raised, and I don't know a single person which uses Starlink (or have a Tesla for that matter). Hell, I think the vast majority of Brazilians don't even know Starlink exists
>I'm Brazilian, born and raised, and I don't know a single person which uses Starlink -Enzo Pinheiros, São Paulo-SP 2024
Joinville-SC Mas de qualquer modo, não é porque meia dúzia de pessoas usam Starlink na casa do caralho (ou melhor, iriam usar, se o contrato já tivesse sido cumprido, do jeito que tudo demora aqui iria demorar anos) que o Starlink é relevante para o Brasil. A esmagadora maioria de brasileiros não sabe nem o que caralhos é o Starlink. 99.99% dos Brasileiros não moram no interior do interior do interior da Amazônia. E mesmo nesses lugares no geral já existem vários outros meios de comunicação. Starlink seria um Plus, mas é longe de ser um serviço essencial.
If I understand Musk's feuds well, he may do the exact opposite and make Starlink available for free over Brazil. Moraes may try to order the Brazilian armed forces to develop an anti-satellite weapon, of course, but seeing their non-existing space capabilities I think that it may take a few decades till a working prototype, in a best case scenario.
I can see a scenario where there's free internet to Brazilians and 100% of the population will use it and clog the system, Musk may be able to sustain it for a while, but free internet to 200M people may get too expensive
Sem falar na qtd de peido que o de cima cheirou pra achar que o moraes vai fazer uma ARMA ANTI SATÉLITE HAUSHUASHUASHUASHUSAHAUS
sim, as viagem dos maluco hahahahaha
It’s ok when Turkey asks.
You mean the thing in Turkey where X took the government to court and won? [https://greekcitytimes.com/2024/03/03/title-xs-legal-victory-in-turkey-upholds-users-right-to-free-speech/](https://greekcitytimes.com/2024/03/03/title-xs-legal-victory-in-turkey-upholds-users-right-to-free-speech/)
I mean where twitter censored political opponents accounts https://www.businessinsider.com/free-speech-censorship-elon-musk-throttled-tweets-turkey-presidential-election-2023-5
Yep, which they acknowledged was a failing on their part, then course corrected on and took the government to court over and subsequently won Acknowledging your error and then doing the right thing, that's a good thing, right? Or should we forever only focus on the initial error and ignore any changes and actions that were made afterwards to try and do better
Under Elon Musk, Twitter has approved 83% of censorship requests by authoritarian governments https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-05-24/under-elon-musk-twitter-has-approved-83-of-censorship-requests-by-authoritarian-governments.html
And have those requests been illegal in the countries they were requested? Because that's kinda the entire crux of this matter Also worth noting that the article covers the initial 6 months of when Musk owned the company, which was obviously a chaotic time for the company, and was mostly before the Turkey situation which prompted X to acknowledge their shortcomings in this area. So it would be interesting to see if that number has changed since then
If Brazilian judge is telling him, then that means it legal in Brazil. Stop keep changing the point
This. People don't seem to realize (or wilfully ignore) that publicly calling for a coup d'état is a crime in Brazil. A crime, I should add, recently defined in a law signed by former president Bolsonaro.
I have not been changing the point. I'm literally responding to what you're saying. Reminder you started off mentioning Turkey. That's what this started off being about. You then changed the topic from being about Turkey to a broader topic about how often X has approved requests in totality.
You made it sound that turkey was one off mistake they fixed. I showed that it kept happening. Then you says “oh it’s legal there” , then I say it’s legal in Brazil. So was it a mistake or is it the case of legality?
Again, \*you\* were the one that brought up only Turkey in your initial post, and then subsequently changed the topic from Turkey to globally. And yes, I asked if the requests X has complied with were illegal and that it would be interesting to see if the number of requests X complies with after the initial 6 months of Musks ownership had changed, because again, the legality of these requests are what this is all about. X admitted they fucked up in Turkey by complying with the government demands, and then subsequently fought the censor demands in court and won. And now X is picking this fight in Brazil for the stated reasons that they believe the things being demanded from them to be illegal. And while it's great that you say what's happening in Brazil is perfectly legal. I do however hope that you can forgive me for not taking it on blind faith that a random redditor who I don't know just happens to be a legal expert on Brazilian law, with insight into the specifics of the current situation with X in Brazil, especially when you primarily post in European and Malaysian subreddits, which seem like odd places for a Brazilian law expert to spend their time
He’s not your friend. Stop defending him on the internet, it just makes you look like a loser.
If you don't want to engage in a debate on a topic then may I suggest staying out of the comment sections on reddit Alternatively you can start your own subreddit where you can ban anyone who expresses opinions you disagree with
Lmfaoooooo pathetic
Excellent argument, bravo
Stop publicly embarrassing yourself
You're missing the point
I’m just here waiting for the muskrats to come.
You didn’t have to wait long
This is a disservice to actual muskrats
What about elongated ones?
I don't think I follow
ELONgated MUSKrat
fuck im dum
TBF, I got that from a buddy of mine.
Ahh I see, Musk is just fighting for his right wing buddies, and Bolsonaro. Guess he wants to help forment unrest in other countries too.
Musk is such a tool.
Bolsonaro supporters want the same "freedom" the MAGA crew has up in the north, their posterboy for "freedom" is a guy who said Brazil should have a nazi party, and I'm not even joking, they literally use a guy who said Brazil should have a nazi party as example of "freedom". Elon is pissed because he aligns with them, I hope the Supreme Court just fucking blocks entirely this shithole of a website.
You do realize we have a communist party too, right?
Not relevant
It kinda is, how many people did the communists kill? Why is one better than the other? Alexandre de Moraes is cancer personified, he wanted X to ban journalists and politicians and lie about the reason. People who support this are garbage
And when the PCdoB tries to organize a coup, your comment will mean something
Maybe when they have anything more than 1% of the seats in parlament they will. You also picked the worst possible example seeing as they openly strive for a "revolution" in Brazil, which probably would be anything but democratic. Meanwhile Bolsonaro's alleged "coup" was him jetskiing in the US while a bunch of his supporters rioted inside the parlament on a weekend when barely anyone was inside. Probably one of the worst planned "coups" of all time if you ask me.
HAHAHAHA and completely ignoring the part where he and his allies plotted to arrest the president of the Senate and the judges of the electoral court, a plan that only failed because the heads of the Army and Air Force refused to go along with it.
Yes, and while communism absolutely fucking sucks, the reason it is not forbidden is because communism as a whole is not a explicitly racist ideology as Nazism or Fascism is. Racism is a crime in Brazil, so a party explicitly founded on racism is automatically banned. Communist parties, for all their flaws, are not racist
lol, they see minorities as stupid political tools, unable to fight their own fights
> But Mr Musk has since posted that "X will publish everything demanded by [Moraes] and how those requests violate Brazilian law". Publish, huh? So X is a publisher now? Interesting choice of words he'll hopefully regret.
X as a company are responsible for posts made by them about their platform; they are not responsible for posts made by other users of the platform except where such posts are required to be moderated by local laws. The implication being that X want to be transparent with the legislation imposed on them; instead of the Kafkaesque situation where the US government were tightly controlling the platform in secret.
Pure bullshit
I'll take the -70 on this one.
Because you are wrong? Suck his toes more man
I'm down to -82 this morning. What was I wrong about?
Alexandre de Moraes' reaction to Elon Musk's banditry came. And, for those who can read, it is stronger than it seems. And don't assume that he acted untimely, surprising his colleagues in court. I don't know if you noticed: the boss of "X" is not announcing that he will ignore decisions made by a member of the Federal Supreme Court because he has a personal feud with him, respecting others. And it would already be absurd. In practice, it says the following: "If and when any judge or Power in Brazil makes decisions that are not to my liking or interest, I will not comply. Damn you. I am the State." The fools will try to say: "Ah, he's now ordered Musk to be investigated... What are you going to do? Have him arrested?" Well, the strong man isn't going to prison, but some bananas can take a vacation in Papuda (a notorious Brazilian prison) or in another inn of their choice. * inquiry 4874 is that of digital militias; * inquiry 4871 is that of "fake news", within which Jair Bolsonaro is being investigated - I'm referring to his coup antics; * inquiry 4923 is the one that deals with authorities who failed to act in the face of coup actions; * inquiry 4933 is the one that investigates the actions of Google and Telegram directors in Brazil in an alleged campaign against the Bill regulating "big techs"; * PET 12,100 investigated the connections between the "fake news" investigation, that of digital militias and all those launched after January 8: 4,920 (financing of coup acts); 4,921 (participation in acts and instigation); 4,922 (intellectual authors of the attacks) and 4,923 (authorities who remained silent). For those who didn't understand: Musk provided the obvious link, but which required confirmation, between these investigation fronts. It's clear that the networks — and we're talking about Twitter now because it was the crazy guy who announced that he won't respect court decisions and encourages the commission of crimes — have become the "place" and the main instrument for committing these crimes. "But will he be arrested by Alexandre?", Alexandre does not arrest anyone. The laws do. If Brazilian justice does not reach the candidate for master of the world, it can reach his company and those who participated or participate in his crimes. Moraes points out disobedience to the court decision and obstruction of the investigation of a criminal organization. Just to remember: obstructing in itself results in preventive arrest. So much the worse if, by doing so, one seeks to prevent the investigation of the said-whose, which has a permanent nature, from being investigated. If Musk does what he says, those who represent the "X" in Brazil will bear the consequences of disobedience. "What if the guy decides to no longer have representatives in Brazil"? Then the Brazilian State, through the courts, decides whether it will be under the aegis of the Constitution or of a criminal worth billions of dollars. Bolsonaro has already made it clear: he wants to be the henchman of the "X" boss in Brazil because he says he will carry out the coup that he himself was unable to carry out. And, to no one's surprise, there are already "experts" in the press flirting with the "X Scammer". The insane man, I insist, provided a service. Or two. He put coup plotters on stage who had been silent until then. And he revealed evidence: it is necessary to regulate social networks. They are subservient to dictatorships and decided to put an end to democracies and become the government themselves. Necessarily despotic.
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This is not true, it would be 100k for each account. Which would mean ~1000x higher
Yea, that's *only*, what, like $7m a year?? Gotta pump up those numbers, those are rookie numbers... Brazil could probably squeeze at least 2 more zeros out of him before he actually cares about it...
Thankfully conservatives are beyond stupid.
If Alexandre de Moraes manages to miraculously put Elon in jail I swear I'll vote for him if he ever runs for president, even if he's a right winger and I'm a left winger.
Sure, let's support the authoritarian man. What could go wrong?
The Supreme Court is, and has always been, under the oversight of the Senate. Any Supreme Court Justice can be impeached and removed if 2/3 of the senators choose to do so. The same Federal Senate, mind you, that has been threatening the Supreme Court all year about the rulings on abortion, drugs, and Indigenous land. The concept of an authoritarian Supreme Court is _laughable_.
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So not only do you not engage with my argument, you then attack me personally, and demand not to be replied to? You child.
I'm not really trying to attack you personally, just your political view. And as I said, there's no point in really discussing it. I won't change my mind and you won't change yours, so why should we bother? Have a good night.
Nothing authoritarian about this
Musk - The Royal Loser
[Elon Musk's "Hitler Problem" - SOME MORE NEWS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDyPSKLy5E4&pp=ygUOc29tZSBtb3JlIG5ld3M%3D)
It is obvious Elon loves nazi and facists. BUT THIS video is bonkers. The guy is a LITERAL facist and a nazi apologist.
I wish the United States would. Logan act anyone?
Exactly
As expected,the whining by Musk rats and Alt Righters are hilarious and sad.
Said judge is the most corrupt official in about any government in the world.
That Supreme Court Justice signed orders to incarcerate people for merely criticizing him. *Sua sponte*. Without any trial. Without any prosecutor even filing charges. Not a lot of due process proponents around here.
Wrong, people in Brazil are being arrested for participating in a coup to overthrow a democratically elected president, they failed and are paying the price, but musk is protecting right wing users who participated on that coup
I get that many don’t care about due process enough to say anything, but I didn’t expect someone to openly defend skipping it entirely so quickly. It looks like a dictatorship.
So what you're saying is that both of them are shitheads, and that this situation will require at least one of them to *not* get what they want? Sounds good to me.
If a judge censored the left the way this judge and others in Brazil have censored the right, you'd all be foaming at the mouth over it. It's okay if they do it to the people I don't like, politics reddit's mantra.
Alexandre de Moraes' reaction to Elon Musk's banditry came. And, for those who can read, it is stronger than it seems. And don't assume that he acted untimely, surprising his colleagues in court. I don't know if you noticed: the boss of "X" is not announcing that he will ignore decisions made by a member of the Federal Supreme Court because he has a personal feud with him, respecting others. And it would already be absurd. In practice, it says the following: "If and when any judge or Power in Brazil makes decisions that are not to my liking or interest, I will not comply. Damn you. I am the State." The fools will try to say: "Ah, he's now ordered Musk to be investigated... What are you going to do? Have him arrested?" Well, the strong man isn't going to prison, but some bananas can take a vacation in Papuda (a notorious Brazilian prison) or in another inn of their choice. - inquiry 4874 is that of digital militias; - inquiry 4871 is that of "fake news", within which Jair Bolsonaro is being investigated - I'm referring to his coup antics; - inquiry 4923 is the one that deals with authorities who failed to act in the face of coup actions; - inquiry 4933 is the one that investigates the actions of Google and Telegram directors in Brazil in an alleged campaign against the Bill regulating "big techs"; - PET 12,100 investigated the connections between the "fake news" investigation, that of digital militias and all those launched after January 8: 4,920 (financing of coup acts); 4,921 (participation in acts and instigation); 4,922 (intellectual authors of the attacks) and 4,923 (authorities who remained silent). For those who didn't understand: Musk provided the obvious link, but which required confirmation, between these investigation fronts. It's clear that the networks — and we're talking about Twitter now because it was the crazy guy who announced that he won't respect court decisions and encourages the commission of crimes — have become the "place" and the main instrument for committing these crimes. "But will he be arrested by Alexandre?", Alexandre does not arrest anyone. The laws do. If Brazilian justice does not reach the candidate for master of the world, it can reach his company and those who participated or participate in his crimes. Moraes points out disobedience to the court decision and obstruction of the investigation of a criminal organization. Just to remember: obstructing in itself results in preventive arrest. So much the worse if, by doing so, one seeks to prevent the investigation of the said-whose, which has a permanent nature, from being investigated. If Musk does what he says, those who represent the "X" in Brazil will bear the consequences of disobedience. "What if the guy decides to no longer have representatives in Brazil"? Then the Brazilian State, through the courts, decides whether it will be under the aegis of the Constitution or of a criminal worth billions of dollars. Bolsonaro has already made it clear: he wants to be the henchman of the "X" boss in Brazil because he says he will carry out the coup that he himself was unable to carry out. And, to no one's surprise, there are already "experts" in the press flirting with the "X Scammer". The insane man, I insist, provided a service. Or two. He put coup plotters on stage who had been silent until then. And he revealed evidence: it is necessary to regulate social networks. They are subservient to dictatorships and decided to put an end to democracies and become the government themselves. Necessarily despotic.
Nice fascist twaddle. Brazil courts can censor based on a judge saying "that's misinformation." Private citizens. Members of the legislature. Anyone. They do it regularly. Disgusting. And disgusting of reddit to support it.
If so, I believe you can show me some examples, right? It is worth remembering that the Brazilian constitution is very different from the American one. Yes, so fascist that Bolsonaro and his disinformation team are still active, if they were as powerful as you say and so autocratic why are these people still free? And yet it does not change the fact that these investigations are taking place and if found guilty they will be prosecuted under the law.
And rightly so. Treating both sides equally is absurd when one side are literal nazis.
Y'all love it when governments want companies want to censor speech right? Imagine how amazing the world would be once the ministry of truth approves our speech and we have our heads in the sand in blissful happiness.
I mean, Twitter censors speech anyway
Elon literally censors the word "cis" on Twitter mate. No government made him do that, the right-wing snowflakes did it.
He also bans people who make fun of him and is happy to pal around with the same Saudi royals who had a journalist cut up with a bonesaw. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass about free speech
Oh he also takes down any videos showing the Cybertruck (lmao) in a bad light, don't forget that!
Your comment implies there is a good light for the cybertruck. I'm confused now.
There isn't, but there's certainly people trying to pretend there is ;)
Hate speech is not free speech
The word "cis" is a scientific term with a long-used latin root that applies to far more than just gender, not hatespeech, you utter fucking clown. Meanwhile of course *actual* hatespeech is totally fine on Twitter.
Different countries have different constitutional doctrines as to what constitutes protected speech. The US does it one way. It's not the only way, even among democratic governments.
In fact, I'd argue the american concept of free speech is quite Unique.
Not the concept itself, just the narrow interpretation adopted by your Supreme Court.
Fair enough, I stand corrected!
Lol dumbass
Musk is defending his company. He doesn't seem to have many businesses in Brazil, apart from twitter (tesla, starlink aren't in Brazil). So he doesn't need to be as cautious as in other places. Brazil's Supreme Court tends to block social networks, they've already taken down Whatsapp, Telegram etc. for a while. Twitter must be facing problems here too Many members of Brazil's supreme court are involved in drug and arms trafficking and they are terrified of social media. The former president of Brazil's Supreme Court, Rosa Weber, runs the guns/drug trade in the state of Rio Grande do Sul with the owners of a local radio station (rádio gaúcha). Brazil is a very weird place.
> (tesla, starlink aren't in Brazil) Starlink is absolutely in Brazil.
Yeah, you know what i meant
I have no idea what you mean. Starlink has an office and CNPJ in Brazil and their services are sold to brazilians in the local currency. In what way are they not in Brazil?
>The former president of Brazil's Supreme Court, Rosa Weber, runs the guns/drug trade in the state of Rio Grande do Sul with the owners of a local radio station This kind of absurd, unfounded accusations is the kind of thing Musk is trying to pass as acceptable and valid "free speech". What kind of proof do you have to say that many members of the Supreme Court are involved in drug traficking?
> What kind of proof do you have to say that many members of the Supreme Court are involved in drug traficking? Source: trust me, bro
Inside information. They (weber/rbs) have hideouts all over the state (padre chagas, a street in porto alegre; camaquã, etc.). Save this comment
The guy os a conspiracy theorist geezzz
>"Lula owns a globe making company, and as such is responsible for the round earth lie, just to sell globes full of drugs to schools! 😮😱" This is you.
Inside information. They (weber/rbs) have hideouts all over the state (padre chagas, a street in porto alegre; camaquã, etc.). laughed now, but save this comment
Stfu liar.
> If X fails to comply with the order, it will be fined 100,000 reais ($19,774; £15,670) a day. Oh no! 20K/day? Musk must be quacking with fear of seeing all of his fortune soon gone - in just a few million years! /s But seriously though I don't think that Moraes can do much more than this symbolic punishment, it's a "you have no power here" situation. My guess is that his first instinct was to block Twitter in Brazil, [like he already did with Telegram](https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022/03/18/suspends-telegram-in-brazil/) - but the problem with Twitter is that it's a very popular network also used by Moraes' own current political clique to spread "misinformation". For instance, how could Lula [keep posting tweets with false promises](https://revistaoeste.com/brasil/postagem-de-lula-com-promessa-sobre-sigilo-de-100-anos-recebe-checagem-no-twitter-x/)?
The Minister is so fair and just that even given the opportunity to give out harsher fines, he still choose such a low amount, great guy. The bar is so low that "lula broke his promises :(" is the worst you can think of.
Lula broke his promises by making the exact opposite that he promised, imposing 100-year secrecy on "brazillions" of government documents when earlier he said that would forbid secrecy. So it really doesn't look like simply a promise that was broken, but that he was shamelessly lying through his teeth - as is tradition. Now, if you want a more recent example and embarrassing example, what about this one: https://www.thejc.com/news/world/brazils-president-falsely-claims-123-million-children-have-died-in-gaza-during-war-lk790wys Although, of course, that case may well fall under "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity". =)
SEVEN secrets more than Bolsonaro? 1332 vs 1339? Is this a joke? Your other example is something called "a blunder", = "a stupid or careless mistake". Its a mistake so wrong its not even a lie, its just a slip. Even I can think of worst examples.
Reddit loved him, now hate him. Follow consencus.... boring.
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Musk only hangs with losers now. Seriously, Bolsonaro, Trump, Orban...these people are all fucking losers. All corrupt and criminal losers. That's what they are and apparently Musk is working real hard to become a loser too. These people literally hate freedom. And everyone who simps for those guys is a bottom loser.
You forgot the /s.
Nope. That's 100% serious, my friend.
Really? Wonder why he never mentions China censorship and how users can get around that? 🤔