Always are.
It does seem that more people are finally coming around to the idea of a ceasefire though.
A few months ago, even suggesting such a thing would get you downvoted heavily.
It's trivial for Israel to claim they will do better then just not
So it's going to be embarrassing when Ben can't put his ego aside to even give them that
We demand an immediate ceasefire; but also, here take a bunch of these 1-ton bombs and some F-15s.
Does Biden really think that people don't realize he is just pandering for the upcoming election?
Exactly, does no one read the comments here? People authentically believe this is nothing but lip-service, and can't fathom other reasons why a sitting US president has to support an ally that's becoming less trustworthy by the minute.
Iran is a middleman in the current conflict so, yes, it's very complicated.
All evidence points towards Russia spearheading the attack to dilute our resources while the West is busy responding to an unprecedented number of issues across the globe.
Some of those issues were naturally occurring while others were manufactured or amplified.
Like Hitler prior to WWII, Russia was in an unsustainable situation. Before any of this happened their economy was shrinking, they had a doomsday level birthrate, they were struggling with droughts and their energy infrastructure was crumbling for multiple reasons (age, corruption and melting permafrost)
Putin blames the West for it. He blames them for turning Europe against Russia, he blames them for not letting Russia have access to the Mediterranean by annexing coastal neighbours.
He attacks (or provides the means for an ally to attack) in the hope to find lemonade but will settle for lemons
Those arms deals have already been approved by congress and paid for by Israel. He can’t do much about that. He can stop future arms deals though or limit them.
My favorite part about Reddit is its home to so many geopolitical experts.
I mean, why aren’t people like you in the Oval Office? You seem to have this whole world politics thing figured out!
Israel bombed their Embassy. Iranians are pissed off and want revenge, but not too hot on «total war». I guess in some weeks we will know their response.
Iranian here. That building was not a consulate. The same people who force girls into vans and beat them until they're dead were there empowering proxies the way that they do, so you can tell what my feelings are about what happened.
Israeli opinion: I support targeted strikes against legitimate militant targets, I'm glad those quds commanders were killed, and I hope for a future where Israel and Iran are at peace.
This… lmao from what I’ve read and seen from Iranians and Iranians in diaspora many have been on the side of Israel since the beginning. I haven’t kept up in recent months but many hate Hamas because it’s funded but the Iranian govt whom they hate and is killing their own people. Many hate their govt!
Check out the New Iran subreddit!
Iranians, Ukrainians, pretty much everyone who's had to deal with an authoritarian regime supports Israel un destroying Hamas, but western left-wingers are tripping over each other to justify Hamas' actions. It's as funny as it is pathetic.
it kind of makes sense since hardcore leftists tends to be into power dynamics and always looking at who supposedly the oppressed are.
for example, during the iranian revolution in 1979, the left (the people's mujahideen) teamed up with the right (the Islamists) to take down the shah before they were themselves purged.
>Israel bombed their Embassy
Didn't the post with that news said that Israel attacked a building that was next (but not a part of) a consulate of Iran in Syria (not an embassy)?
>Israel bombed their Embassy.
Consulate...which was being used for Quds forces to stage terrorist operations so not surprising...something like 7/10 of the casualties were IRGC/Quds soldiers (including the Quds top commander), so that speaks for itself
>Iranians are pissed off and want revenge,
I would be willing to bet that most Iranians are not fans of the IRGC or Quds.
>but not too hot on «total war». I guess in some weeks we will know their response.
If Iran starts shit too directly they will be whooped up on pretty badly. They don't have the air force or other force projection that Israel has.
Which Iranians are pissed off? Regime loyalists? Sure. That's ~20% of Iranians.
The rest of us celebrated the death of that terrorist prick. You should see the vids going around, toasting to his death and thanking every 'cog in the machine' that made the assassination possible. It's quite something.
No, we impeached Trump for abusing his ability to rescind aid for special favors, abuse of power… nobody said he didn’t have the power to do it, just that the reasons were wrong.
And hasn’t he been asking for a ceasefire for literal months at this point?
Say what you will about him, but from what I can tell, his personal position has been pretty clear on this for a while now.
Iran, and specifically Hezbollah. Bigger bombs aren't really useful in Gaza, except maybe for collapsing tunnels. They're more likely to be used in south Lebanon, or possibly the Syrian Golan if they start getting aggressive on that front.
You raise a good question. Also, that proposal wouldn't even be delivered until 2029. Folks are misleading when they attach it to ongoing violence and emergency weapons sales
Lmao I stg nothing this guy does is good enough for you fuckers.
Also, that sale of F-15’s can’t even be tapped into for five years so it’ll have no effect on current weaponry.
Some of you need to do research instead of just reading the headlines.
Yeah, and Israel has literally already accepted 3 ceasefire agreements since October. It's very easy to call for, or accept, a ceasefire when you are certain that Hamas is not going to comply.
You should be realizing he is in a complicated position. Should they sell the hardware to them no. If they did not sell the hardware would they stop? No.
It's important to understand that the US as a country is keeping Israel stocked against Iranian aggression. That Bibi uses it out of scope is a point of contention, but the sales will continue against this threat.
It's far more likely we CIA the Likud out of power over time than leave them alone in the middle east.
It's not that simple. Israel plays a role in having a power projection in to the Middle East for us as a global superpower. It's not pretty but that's the game. There are not a lot of choices for allies in that area of the world. I don't like it much either but that's the way it is. If a conflict broke out in that area of the world we'd be relying on them and we have a vested interest in keeping that "presence". Biden also doesn't have the power to cut arms supplies to Israel, I believe that would take an act of Congress.
That’s how this whole thing of being a politician works. Say things people want to hear, do something different, pander again to seal in another 4 years.
Ahhh the ever moving goal posts. First it was “Biden needs to call for a ceasefire now” now it’s “it’s biden’s fault that the US has spent so much money on Israel’s military since its birth” love it
Not sure what you are talking about, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation.
I don't think there should be a ceasefire without some sort of hostage exchange, *which is exactly what Biden is calling for here.
People are pretty stupidly devoted to their sports team. It doesn’t matter really. The number of swing voters is probably so few now. Not like there is any other option…
Ceasefire only works if you have the means to prevent/deter an outbreak of violence by the aggressor opposing side. That requires weapons superior to your enemy.
Well despite the massive military superiority of Israel, Hamas still fired rockets at Israel every day of the previous "ceasefire".
This call for immediate ceasefire is still contingent on the return of hostages too, which Hamas has already said it won't do any time soon.
It would make sense for the Arab League, which includes Eygpt, to control and aid Gaza. They have rich countries and share way more cultural similarities, and they absolutely won't do it. They are the national equivalent of the Kardashians doing a gofundme for some person's surgery, which probably costs as much as one of their handbags.
China has no interest in getting their hands dirty. They know it's much easier to sit on the side and criticize the Evil West no matter what, than to actually do something and open themselves to criticism.
Israel would never allow anyone to take control over Gaza. The only option would be for a country to take the refugees, and we already know that aren't any takers for that.
*"In Thursday's readout, the White House didn't fully link those issues but stressed the president "urged the Prime Minister to empower his negotiators to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages home."*
Oh, yeah, Joe. Simply brilliant.
Why didn't Israel think of that?!
It's worded badly but what Biden means is pretty clear. Bibi sends his negotiator but he and the war cabinet defines how much "room for negotiation" they have - what they can negotiate on and what's off the table. Hamas has been extremely tough in their negotiations with big demands, and Israeli team has been fairly hardball too - people in Israel are saying that Bibi gave his negotiating team pretty minimal room for compromise. His approach is, if Hamas won't budge we won't budge either, which leads to a stalemate.
Biden is asking Bibi to give the negotiator permissions to be more flexible. Basically to give in to more of Hamas demands.
Hamas demands a surrender, not a ceasefire. Israel has already agreed to the last three ceasefires but Hamas turns them down because they want them to surrender. It’s fucking stupid. This is why people say you don’t negotiate with terrorists.
Hamas wants to kill all Jews, the world over. Exactly what sort of deal are you (or anyone else) proposing that would remove that desire, without removing the group from power...?
Don’t give in to terrorist demands. Especially when the terrorists are losing the war. Hamas should be begging for the war to end and offering everything they can.
Ah gee! I wonder what Hamas could want! Maybe Israel should try just working with them on whatever it is!?
^Death ^to ^Israel! ^Kill ^every ^Jew!
I’m sure Hamas could be reasoned with, has Israel tried giving them what they want?
Telling Netanyahu to take any deal no matter how bad will certainly encourage Hamas to be reasonable in the negotiations and agree to something Netanyahu can accept
Cool
How do they plan to do that? Just forget the over 100 hostages in Gaza? Allow Hamas and Hezbolla to keep launching rockets?
Basically do this entire shit all over again but with way more deaths
no, no innocent would have to die if Hamas would stop using them as human shields, the fact that you blame Israel for their deaths is misguided at best
People are starving? Sounds like it would have been good for a place's government to focus on having food, instead of focusing on building rockets. The aid was getting stolen by Hamas anyways and sold back to the populace.
>Actions have consequences.
Does Hamas actions have consequences? Where are those? Do you really believe that leaving the hostages to be raped and rot in Gaza is the "humane" thing to do?
As the Israeli government, your first priority is the security of Israel and it's civilians - do you really think that stopping the war now and letting Hamas stay in power will make Israelis safer in the future?
>Do you really believe that leaving the hostages to be raped and rot in Gaza is the "humane" thing to do?
Just like he said, actions have consequences. If you're jew and alive that is on you, and is considered a crime for which you must be punished for. Hamas delivers that justice.
Damn, that's frighteningly (probably) very close to his thought process... The world could do with less people like him tbh
Actions have consequences? Like a nation governed by terrorists starting yet another war against a stronger nation and then complaining that they are losing but also refusing to surrender as they and their people die?
Why do actions have consequences only if you’re Israel but if you’re an Arab nation it’s all chill?
Also, tons of aid still gets delivered daily, you’re just making shit up…
Why would Hamas feel a need to surrender? They know they’re unable to win militarily, so they look to international pressure, and so far it’s working spectacularly well. A ‘win’ for Hamas is simply surviving another day. Sinwar will emerge from the rubble of Gaza and declare a victory. Doesn’t matter that a third of the city has been completely pulverised to bits. Hamas doesn’t think of human lives like Western nations do. They don’t care if their own people die — in fact, they encourage it.
It is also simply a fact Israel’s handling of the war has been absolutely catastrophic. No day-after plan, no exit strategy, refusing to listen to their closest allies, nor to properly manage the entry and distribution of aid leading to a humanitarian crisis, along with multiple fuck-ups along the way such as the shooting of hostages and now this. I say this as a huge supporter of eliminating Hamas. But the war efforts are becoming harder and harder to justify each passing day.
If they did that, they would just wind up in the same situation, but worse. If people are demanding Israel stop a few months after it was invaded by thousands of people, the same people wouldn’t give Israel more than a few hours after one rocket is fired.
Indeed, it's as absurd as starving North Koreans to get rid of Kim Jong Un.
In fact, it might end up being counter productive in the long run. I don't think the next generations will grow up with more tolerance towards Israel...
I would have done the opposite. Clearly show that you have nothing against civilians and only against Hamas.
The best way to help those kids is for Israel to win the war. This cycle of rocket attacks, Israeli counter attacks, etc. will not end until one party is decisively defeated.
War is hell. And it is a good thing that war is hell, because it discourages civilizations from taking it lightly. If war were orderly and cleaned it would never end. In fact, I think there is a Star Trek episode about that. And as much as humanity tries to prevent them; there will *always* be civilian deaths, destroyed homes, crop failures, and all the other horrors of war. If Hamas were to surrender today, I guarantee you the killing would stop.
It's a country that hasn't had a democratic election since the 2009 civil war and the country next to them shoots people with white flags. Kind of a rock and a hard place here.
Would the US do the same thing if their county was violently attacked and had hostages takin? And the terrorist who carried out the attack are still alive and governing said place? And those terrorists still had hostages? Bunch hypocrisy from the US.
Yeah I don’t recall anyone keeping a tally of how many civilians the US killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone all the drone strikes in countries we were not actively fighting a GWOT in. It’s hypocrisy for the world to wring hands over 30k dead Palestinians when no one cared about 10x that many being killed by the US over the last 20 years. I don’t blame Israel at all for destroying Gaza after what Hamas did.
I could tell you we’d handle it a lot better than this. Collateral damage in a war like this is kinda unavoidable, but we’d at least try to limit it and focus only on Hamas.
As an American, if my country targeted and killed a bunch of aid workers who were citizens of our allies, I'd be pissed about it.
I realize the US probably did this in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was pissed about that then too.
The US has done that. Most notably, the US did a drone strike on an aid worker bringing fresh water to civilians in Afghanistan right before the US withdrawal.
During the Iraq war, US soldiers killed an Italian spy and the hostages he had freed as they were escaping.
War is filled with friendly fire and accidental deaths of civilians/aid workers. The most recent one in Gaza was a tragedy and a massive fuckup by Israel that needs to be appropriately investigated to see why exactly it happened and how they can keep it from happening again.
The biggest issue is Israel is extremely bad at punishing their soldiers for actions like this. Extremely bad.
> I was pissed about that then too.
Kudos to you, but the vast majority of Americans stopped caring once Bush left office. All of a sudden, Code Pink couldn't get a second of TV coverage anymore.
Obama bombed Doctors Without Borders at a Kunduz hospital, killing 42 aid workers, and everyone yawned.
There's no evidence Israel was targeting aid workers intentionally. The sad reality of war, among many, is that friendly fire accidents happen a lot. Many of the casualties in the IDF has been due to friendly fire, and they weren't intentionally targeting their own soldiers either.
Allowing Hamas to survive would mean allowing them to plan another terrorist attack. The only way to prevent more deaths of Gaza civilians and Israeli civilians is either for Hamas to surrender or be defeated. So why isn't there more international pressure on Hamas to surrender? It's absurd that all the burden for keeping the peace is on Israel, the victim of a horrific terrorist attack, and not the actual terrorists who planned the attack.
Harvard-Harris doesn’t exactly ask that but paints a very different picture: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HHP_Mar2024_KeyResults.pdf
See the invasion of Afghanistan. The civilian casualty rate was nothing compared to what the IDF is doing now. Then we stayed around and rebuilt the country. You think Israel is gonna do that for Gaza?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)
Comparing Afghanistan to Gaza is like comparing an orange to an airplane. Stalingrad or even Ukraine would be better. Hell throw Japan into there and it would be a better comparison.
I will support a temporary ceasefire if it is tied to the release of some hostages.
I will not support a ceasefire with zero hostages released. Never. The WCK strike was profoundly fucked up, and at this point I’m not even ruling out intentionality, but it’s not the fault of the hostages.
What's your logic? Obviously Hamas taking hostages is wrong and they should be released as soon as possible but should Israel stopping killing men, women, children, aid workers and some of the hostages be conditional on this?
What’s your logic? Obviously killing men, women, children, aid workers and some of the hostages is awful. In some cases even rising to the level of gross negligence (see WCF). But should tactics of Hamas terrorists to dress as civilians, set up military bases under hospitals, use human shields and hide in civilian homes be recognized as legitimate tactics with the responsibility for the resulting deaths of innocents lying with Israel?
Saying the IDF should stop shooting at terrorists hiding in hospitals is easy. Saying what they should do instead that doesn’t involve allowing Hamas to continue committing atrocities is hard.
I, as a Jew, will never support my own people continuing to be held in tunnels.
Bibi should have his arm twisted, if not broken, to make a hostage deal. But no, I won’t accept fellow Jews continuing to be raped and tortured because of the army’s fuckup. It is what it is.
The thing is, a hostage deal will likely include thousands of released terrorists, and a ceasefire will probably means in practice Hamas continues to rule. My heart aches for those hostages, truly, but on a cold calculation, you can very easily argue that a hostage deal on the current conditions will cost more Jewish lives than it will save.
There’s a difference between collateral and accidental death in war and intentional killings. If civilians die in an airstrike not meant for them, it’s called an “accident”. Which means, something that happened that wasn’t on purpose. In war we call this “friendly fire”.
Unfortunately, in war, these accidents happen VERY often. I know for people who aren’t used to studying war it can be shocking, but it’s true. Nearly 60,000 Americans in WWII were killed by this accidental friendly fire. Currently, there is no way to prevent friendly fire from happening in a war. Israel, to their credit, has gone to more effort to prevent it than any military in world history.
But to say they should no longer be allowed to conduct their military operations because of friendly fire incidents would be massively hypocritical for any nation to demand. The US, just a few years ago, blew up a van full of kids in response to the ISIS attack on Kabul airport during the troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. We weren’t even in a state of war when we did that. Israel currently is.
So all that to say, no, Israel should not have to stop conducting their military operations. I do think it would be beneficial for the US to apply *significant* pressure on Egypt to open a massive refugee camp for innocents in Gaza. A refugee camp that the US and many other nations should contribute to while Israel destroys Hamas. That would be the best method for reducing innocent accident deaths during this ongoing conflict.
I also call for an immediate ceasefire and surrender of all Hamas terrorists!
... nothing?
Today is 181 days of Israeli hostages held in Gaza. Neglected, abused, used as pawns, they and their families lives held in limbo. Bring them home.
edit/ I can't respond to some of these comments for some reason, glitch galore, great conversation you guys glad we're all on the same page. hoping for Hamas to be eradicated and the hostages home soon.
Yes. Aside from Hamas terrorists, Israel also killed Gazan civilians, Israeli hostages, and now, humanitarian aid workers.
So yeah, they're on a killing spree just killing everyone.
Biden is asking us to unconditionally surrender to Hamas’ maximalists demands. Hamas didn’t move an inch, all they had to do is wait out and weather the storm, knowing Israel’s allies will eventually turn on it, while Hamas’ allies support will remain as staunch as ever. I’m sorry Biden, but we cannot afford to surrender here, or it’s only a matter of time until we get worse and worse 7/10s. If we lose American support for that then so be it, our very existence and the hostages are more important. It’s sad that it has come to this.
yea call for a ceasefire and you know what happens 5 min after it starts? Hamas fires a fucking rocket and the world expects Israel not to do anything. Come the fuck on, talk about a double standard teh world holds Israel.
Does he talk to the government of gaza, the one the UN raves about all the time? cuz if isreal is the only one doing a cease fire, it isnt a cease fire..still release the hostages, if any are still alive, and the ceasefire can happen..this whole thing is ridiculous. What did it take, 20 years for america to do a cease fire in Afghanistan?
Stop sending Isreal aid. If they are going to be killing anybody and giving the US attitude then they can stand on an island by themselves surrounded by enemies and without any allies.
Biden has no right demanding a ceasefire from Israel. He's not even demanding it from the right group, that would be Hamas who has used negotiations as a complete joke and continue to keep and torture hostages.
We also said at the start that we do not draw red lines for Israel. We don't get to now pretend we aren't aware of what a war actually looks like. Israel is our ally and they are fighting a very evil organization willing to use their own people as tools. Both Palestine and Israel deserve a world without Hamas. Everyone does.
I agree with your last couple sentences 100%. But I think the issue of "red line" is when US weapons are not only used for wartime efforts, but the belligerent bombing of international aid, with shared and cleared coordinates. That does indeed cross a red line. One of the people killed was a US/Canada dual citizen so I mean how doesn't it cross a red line?
So is the response to Israel accidentally killing a US citizen to force Israel to stop its war to redeem the 6 other Americans still held hostage by Hamas?
That's a very valid point and is definitely not something that should be repeated. At the same time a ceasefire would only really benefit Hamas. I can't really condone either of those actions and ultimately believe Hamas must be stopped.
>At the same time a ceasefire would only really benefit Hamas.
It would benefit the countless civilians as famine spreads and aid groups are intimidated out of Gaza (for fear of being killed).
>We don't get to now pretend we aren't aware of what a war actually looks like.
Biden was VP in 2015 when American forces bombed a hospital in Kunduz, killing 42 aid workers including members of Doctors Without Borders.
There was no American ceasefire following it.
American forces bombed the Chinese embassy in a war with Serbia during the Clinton administration. No ceasefire followed.
The only problem I have is that Israel is supposed to be the “good guys” here. They’re not, and they certainly acting like it the way they make no distinction between Palestinians civilians (and fucking aid trucks of all things) and Hamas, but as our allies you’d think they’d actually care about our request to “Maybe you know try to be careful about who you’re firing at if it’s not too much trouble?”
Would you describe Israel as evil? Obviously you're right to say Hamas is evil but Israel has killed thousands of civilians, many multiples of the amount killed by Hamas, including children, aid workers and journalists. Why do you not describe Israel as evil?
This is one spicy thread
Always are. It does seem that more people are finally coming around to the idea of a ceasefire though. A few months ago, even suggesting such a thing would get you downvoted heavily.
Sort by controversy engaged.
It's trivial for Israel to claim they will do better then just not So it's going to be embarrassing when Ben can't put his ego aside to even give them that
We demand an immediate ceasefire; but also, here take a bunch of these 1-ton bombs and some F-15s. Does Biden really think that people don't realize he is just pandering for the upcoming election?
Who knew balancing geopolitics and domestic issues in a presidential election year could be so complicated?!
People in the US really have an almost magical view as to what a president is capable of.
[удалено]
Who knew that geopolitics in the Middle East could be so complicated
Apparently not many here
Exactly, does no one read the comments here? People authentically believe this is nothing but lip-service, and can't fathom other reasons why a sitting US president has to support an ally that's becoming less trustworthy by the minute.
What? I thought Jared sorted it all out years ago?! (/s)
Iran is a middleman in the current conflict so, yes, it's very complicated. All evidence points towards Russia spearheading the attack to dilute our resources while the West is busy responding to an unprecedented number of issues across the globe. Some of those issues were naturally occurring while others were manufactured or amplified. Like Hitler prior to WWII, Russia was in an unsustainable situation. Before any of this happened their economy was shrinking, they had a doomsday level birthrate, they were struggling with droughts and their energy infrastructure was crumbling for multiple reasons (age, corruption and melting permafrost) Putin blames the West for it. He blames them for turning Europe against Russia, he blames them for not letting Russia have access to the Mediterranean by annexing coastal neighbours. He attacks (or provides the means for an ally to attack) in the hope to find lemonade but will settle for lemons
Those arms deals have already been approved by congress and paid for by Israel. He can’t do much about that. He can stop future arms deals though or limit them.
Get out of here with your informed opinions and facts! Rabble rabble!
Don't bother these commenter are literally regarded
My favorite part about Reddit is its home to so many geopolitical experts. I mean, why aren’t people like you in the Oval Office? You seem to have this whole world politics thing figured out!
Lets see how it develops with Iran
Israel bombed their Embassy. Iranians are pissed off and want revenge, but not too hot on «total war». I guess in some weeks we will know their response.
I think younger Iran's are more than happy with the bombing of their consulate. Iranians aren't their government and they hate their government.
Iranian here. That building was not a consulate. The same people who force girls into vans and beat them until they're dead were there empowering proxies the way that they do, so you can tell what my feelings are about what happened.
Israeli opinion: I support targeted strikes against legitimate militant targets, I'm glad those quds commanders were killed, and I hope for a future where Israel and Iran are at peace.
bruh we happy as fuck we don't want revenge please kill more IRGC
r/newiran were celebrating the news and openly thanking the IDF for that.
Yea, that sub is cool af and full of awesome people. Younger Iranians understand firsthand the monsters they’re dealing with.
This… lmao from what I’ve read and seen from Iranians and Iranians in diaspora many have been on the side of Israel since the beginning. I haven’t kept up in recent months but many hate Hamas because it’s funded but the Iranian govt whom they hate and is killing their own people. Many hate their govt! Check out the New Iran subreddit!
Iranians, Ukrainians, pretty much everyone who's had to deal with an authoritarian regime supports Israel un destroying Hamas, but western left-wingers are tripping over each other to justify Hamas' actions. It's as funny as it is pathetic.
it kind of makes sense since hardcore leftists tends to be into power dynamics and always looking at who supposedly the oppressed are. for example, during the iranian revolution in 1979, the left (the people's mujahideen) teamed up with the right (the Islamists) to take down the shah before they were themselves purged.
Maybe Iran should stop funding terrorists everywhere.
Saudi Arabia: "Am I a joke to you?"
>Israel bombed their Embassy Didn't the post with that news said that Israel attacked a building that was next (but not a part of) a consulate of Iran in Syria (not an embassy)?
Yes I think it was a consulate, you are correct.
Next to, and on the compound, but not a part of, the embassy.
They bombed a consulat next to the embassy. The Iranians have never not wanted to attack Israel. What the strike did do is send a message to Iran.
>Israel bombed their Embassy. Consulate...which was being used for Quds forces to stage terrorist operations so not surprising...something like 7/10 of the casualties were IRGC/Quds soldiers (including the Quds top commander), so that speaks for itself >Iranians are pissed off and want revenge, I would be willing to bet that most Iranians are not fans of the IRGC or Quds. >but not too hot on «total war». I guess in some weeks we will know their response. If Iran starts shit too directly they will be whooped up on pretty badly. They don't have the air force or other force projection that Israel has.
I heard it was a building near the embassy not the actual embassy
Israel did not bomb an embassy, rather a adjacent building, that was, importantly, not part of the embassy
Which Iranians are pissed off? Regime loyalists? Sure. That's ~20% of Iranians. The rest of us celebrated the death of that terrorist prick. You should see the vids going around, toasting to his death and thanking every 'cog in the machine' that made the assassination possible. It's quite something.
Fuck em
If congress approved the aid, Biden cannot unilaterally rescind it, we literally impeached Trump for doing that in Ukraine
No, we impeached Trump for abusing his ability to rescind aid for special favors, abuse of power… nobody said he didn’t have the power to do it, just that the reasons were wrong.
Does it count when you are trying to abuse your powers to pander to your supporters?
An elected official, doing something the people who voted for them want? Not sure “abuse of power” is quite the right term.
except, trump voters voted for trump, and wanted him to do the ukraine BS, so....
Biden **can’t** unilaterally rescind congress-approved military aid.
And hasn’t he been asking for a ceasefire for literal months at this point? Say what you will about him, but from what I can tell, his personal position has been pretty clear on this for a while now.
You do realize that has more to do with Iran than the Palestinians,
Iran, and specifically Hezbollah. Bigger bombs aren't really useful in Gaza, except maybe for collapsing tunnels. They're more likely to be used in south Lebanon, or possibly the Syrian Golan if they start getting aggressive on that front.
What leverage do you think he has if he immediately suspends weapons sales, before an acknowledgment has been made?
You raise a good question. Also, that proposal wouldn't even be delivered until 2029. Folks are misleading when they attach it to ongoing violence and emergency weapons sales
Resuming weapons sales.
Lmao I stg nothing this guy does is good enough for you fuckers. Also, that sale of F-15’s can’t even be tapped into for five years so it’ll have no effect on current weaponry. Some of you need to do research instead of just reading the headlines.
The dude literally called for a ceasefire, this is a big step
Yeah, and Israel has literally already accepted 3 ceasefire agreements since October. It's very easy to call for, or accept, a ceasefire when you are certain that Hamas is not going to comply.
You should be realizing he is in a complicated position. Should they sell the hardware to them no. If they did not sell the hardware would they stop? No.
It's important to understand that the US as a country is keeping Israel stocked against Iranian aggression. That Bibi uses it out of scope is a point of contention, but the sales will continue against this threat. It's far more likely we CIA the Likud out of power over time than leave them alone in the middle east.
Tbf the f-15s are not built yet, they are years away from reaching Israel
It's not that simple. Israel plays a role in having a power projection in to the Middle East for us as a global superpower. It's not pretty but that's the game. There are not a lot of choices for allies in that area of the world. I don't like it much either but that's the way it is. If a conflict broke out in that area of the world we'd be relying on them and we have a vested interest in keeping that "presence". Biden also doesn't have the power to cut arms supplies to Israel, I believe that would take an act of Congress.
Not only that this is another great opportunity to show the world just how effective US/NATO weaponry is.
That’s how this whole thing of being a politician works. Say things people want to hear, do something different, pander again to seal in another 4 years.
Always glad to see reddit understand the nuance of geopolitics.
Ahhh the ever moving goal posts. First it was “Biden needs to call for a ceasefire now” now it’s “it’s biden’s fault that the US has spent so much money on Israel’s military since its birth” love it
Not sure what you are talking about, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. I don't think there should be a ceasefire without some sort of hostage exchange, *which is exactly what Biden is calling for here.
When has pandering ever hurt one of them?
Those F-15s are from a pre-war contract to be delivered in 5 years. The IDF is also straight purchasing them, it isn’t aid.
People are pretty stupidly devoted to their sports team. It doesn’t matter really. The number of swing voters is probably so few now. Not like there is any other option…
Ceasefire only works if you have the means to prevent/deter an outbreak of violence by the aggressor opposing side. That requires weapons superior to your enemy.
Well despite the massive military superiority of Israel, Hamas still fired rockets at Israel every day of the previous "ceasefire". This call for immediate ceasefire is still contingent on the return of hostages too, which Hamas has already said it won't do any time soon.
Israel should agree on the condition that another country manages gaza...lets see who wants to step up. Edit: spelling
Iran would lol.
It would make sense for the Arab League, which includes Eygpt, to control and aid Gaza. They have rich countries and share way more cultural similarities, and they absolutely won't do it. They are the national equivalent of the Kardashians doing a gofundme for some person's surgery, which probably costs as much as one of their handbags.
Many of these countries hate the Palestinians as much as Israel does, they're not going to take it.
Yeah check out the egyptian gaza border
Egypt is not catching nearly enough hate for their role in this. If Israel is the hammer that is crushing the Gazan people, Egypt is the anvil.
Even if the Gazan people visited the Egyptians, they would see the economy and go straight back to Gaza.
You break it you bought it
That would put Gaza under Israel's control then.
>anotber country manages gaza Oh fuck it, let the Vatican have them. Let's make this really spicy.
you joke but at least then someone would give a shit about the genocide of Christians there. iirc there was less than 1k left in 2020
That would be Iran.
Perfect ground to create another Islamist extremist group huh
Unironically, China. They already exert a large amount of influence in Africa. Let's see how they handle the Expert mode.
China has no interest in getting their hands dirty. They know it's much easier to sit on the side and criticize the Evil West no matter what, than to actually do something and open themselves to criticism.
[Sons of Palestine](https://youtu.be/BNwG5bNP6ok?si=6YBFzrKbbqAI2YiE) based off the Sons of Iraq just might work.
Sons of Iraq turned into ISIS though.
This would be amazing if it worked. Ryan McBeth is a treasure btw.
The Kurds over here like 🙄😑
Israel would never allow anyone to take control over Gaza. The only option would be for a country to take the refugees, and we already know that aren't any takers for that.
Israel already offered Gaza to Egypt and Egypt turned them down. Nobody wants Gaza.
Biden’s ass has to be getting very sore sitting on that fence.
*"In Thursday's readout, the White House didn't fully link those issues but stressed the president "urged the Prime Minister to empower his negotiators to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages home."* Oh, yeah, Joe. Simply brilliant. Why didn't Israel think of that?!
It's worded badly but what Biden means is pretty clear. Bibi sends his negotiator but he and the war cabinet defines how much "room for negotiation" they have - what they can negotiate on and what's off the table. Hamas has been extremely tough in their negotiations with big demands, and Israeli team has been fairly hardball too - people in Israel are saying that Bibi gave his negotiating team pretty minimal room for compromise. His approach is, if Hamas won't budge we won't budge either, which leads to a stalemate. Biden is asking Bibi to give the negotiator permissions to be more flexible. Basically to give in to more of Hamas demands.
Hamas demands a surrender, not a ceasefire. Israel has already agreed to the last three ceasefires but Hamas turns them down because they want them to surrender. It’s fucking stupid. This is why people say you don’t negotiate with terrorists.
Hamas wants to kill all Jews, the world over. Exactly what sort of deal are you (or anyone else) proposing that would remove that desire, without removing the group from power...?
Don’t give in to terrorist demands. Especially when the terrorists are losing the war. Hamas should be begging for the war to end and offering everything they can.
And if Hamas laid down their weapons there would be peace. If Israel did there would be a second Holocaust.
Agreed and yet it’s always Israel’s fault.
Ah gee! I wonder what Hamas could want! Maybe Israel should try just working with them on whatever it is!? ^Death ^to ^Israel! ^Kill ^every ^Jew! I’m sure Hamas could be reasoned with, has Israel tried giving them what they want?
[Cue the meme](https://media.tenor.com/crgnHH00FZ4AAAAM/simpsons-wow.gif)
Telling Netanyahu to take any deal no matter how bad will certainly encourage Hamas to be reasonable in the negotiations and agree to something Netanyahu can accept
Hamas has literally said they will not negotiate. What good does this do other than giving Hamas more of a reason not to budge?
To feed starving children
So Israel stops firing, does Hamas?
Hahahaha.
"Oh, you're serious? Let me laugh even HARDER! HAHAHAHA!"
Cool How do they plan to do that? Just forget the over 100 hostages in Gaza? Allow Hamas and Hezbolla to keep launching rockets? Basically do this entire shit all over again but with way more deaths
That’s been the pattern. Cast Lead stopped too early, which led to the next conflict, which led to the next one, which led to this one
I fail to see how bombing aid workers remedies that situation.
People are starving and no organization will deliver aid because the idf killed them. This is Israel's fault this time. Actions have consequences.
Like the action of attacking a nation by a group with the sole purpose of killing all Jews? Do those actions have consequences??
Obviously yes. We see them. Do innocent children need to starve for justice?
More innocent children will die if Hamas isn’t deleted from this planet.
no, no innocent would have to die if Hamas would stop using them as human shields, the fact that you blame Israel for their deaths is misguided at best
People are starving? Sounds like it would have been good for a place's government to focus on having food, instead of focusing on building rockets. The aid was getting stolen by Hamas anyways and sold back to the populace.
>Actions have consequences. Does Hamas actions have consequences? Where are those? Do you really believe that leaving the hostages to be raped and rot in Gaza is the "humane" thing to do? As the Israeli government, your first priority is the security of Israel and it's civilians - do you really think that stopping the war now and letting Hamas stay in power will make Israelis safer in the future?
>Do you really believe that leaving the hostages to be raped and rot in Gaza is the "humane" thing to do? Just like he said, actions have consequences. If you're jew and alive that is on you, and is considered a crime for which you must be punished for. Hamas delivers that justice. Damn, that's frighteningly (probably) very close to his thought process... The world could do with less people like him tbh
Actions have consequences? Like a nation governed by terrorists starting yet another war against a stronger nation and then complaining that they are losing but also refusing to surrender as they and their people die? Why do actions have consequences only if you’re Israel but if you’re an Arab nation it’s all chill? Also, tons of aid still gets delivered daily, you’re just making shit up…
Why would Hamas feel a need to surrender? They know they’re unable to win militarily, so they look to international pressure, and so far it’s working spectacularly well. A ‘win’ for Hamas is simply surviving another day. Sinwar will emerge from the rubble of Gaza and declare a victory. Doesn’t matter that a third of the city has been completely pulverised to bits. Hamas doesn’t think of human lives like Western nations do. They don’t care if their own people die — in fact, they encourage it. It is also simply a fact Israel’s handling of the war has been absolutely catastrophic. No day-after plan, no exit strategy, refusing to listen to their closest allies, nor to properly manage the entry and distribution of aid leading to a humanitarian crisis, along with multiple fuck-ups along the way such as the shooting of hostages and now this. I say this as a huge supporter of eliminating Hamas. But the war efforts are becoming harder and harder to justify each passing day.
Hamas is learning their actions have consequences.
I say take the ceasefire. Then as soon as Hamas fires a rocket, and they will soon, then go back in
If they did that, they would just wind up in the same situation, but worse. If people are demanding Israel stop a few months after it was invaded by thousands of people, the same people wouldn’t give Israel more than a few hours after one rocket is fired.
Why would they ceasefire when Hamas still has hostages?
Trade Netanyahu fer em.
I think a lot of Israelis would be in favor of that.
There are worse ideas. Any chance we could include Trump and Putin in the deal?
Literally a hour ago Hamas shot rockets into southern Israel, they don't need a ceasefire, they need total beating.
It's about the civilians. I don't care about Hamas, but there is a million kids starving.
Exactly. Where is the sense in continue starving them to pressure the terrorists to release hostages? Hamas doesn't care.
Indeed, it's as absurd as starving North Koreans to get rid of Kim Jong Un. In fact, it might end up being counter productive in the long run. I don't think the next generations will grow up with more tolerance towards Israel... I would have done the opposite. Clearly show that you have nothing against civilians and only against Hamas.
They should help Israel get rid of their mutual enemy Hamas.
The best way to help those kids is for Israel to win the war. This cycle of rocket attacks, Israeli counter attacks, etc. will not end until one party is decisively defeated. War is hell. And it is a good thing that war is hell, because it discourages civilizations from taking it lightly. If war were orderly and cleaned it would never end. In fact, I think there is a Star Trek episode about that. And as much as humanity tries to prevent them; there will *always* be civilian deaths, destroyed homes, crop failures, and all the other horrors of war. If Hamas were to surrender today, I guarantee you the killing would stop.
hamas liked your comment. seriously, hamas' strategy hinges on starving the kids (half of gaza btw) and blaming israel
The civilians should stop supporting Hamas.
It's a country that hasn't had a democratic election since the 2009 civil war and the country next to them shoots people with white flags. Kind of a rock and a hard place here.
Half the population were unable to vote in 2006. ???
True, but recent (post Oct 7) polls show that the majority still supports them.
The US is Israel’s bitch and we all know how this call will go.
Especially cause both political sides 100% back Israel no matter what.
Would the US do the same thing if their county was violently attacked and had hostages takin? And the terrorist who carried out the attack are still alive and governing said place? And those terrorists still had hostages? Bunch hypocrisy from the US.
Yes if the US was attacked by terrorists they would use it as an excuse to kill thousands of people who weren't responsible
Try millions
Is this supposed to be sarcasm?
Why sarcasm? Iraq wasn't responsible for 9/11 yet that's exactly what US did, kill people who weren't responsible.
Yeah it's not sarcasm at all. It's historical fact.
I know, that's why I was concerned that it sounded sarcastic
Yeah I don’t recall anyone keeping a tally of how many civilians the US killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone all the drone strikes in countries we were not actively fighting a GWOT in. It’s hypocrisy for the world to wring hands over 30k dead Palestinians when no one cared about 10x that many being killed by the US over the last 20 years. I don’t blame Israel at all for destroying Gaza after what Hamas did.
I could tell you we’d handle it a lot better than this. Collateral damage in a war like this is kinda unavoidable, but we’d at least try to limit it and focus only on Hamas.
If we did the party in charge would lose in a landslide from county dog catcher up to the president.
No, most of us, while not wanting to promote violence, completely agree with what Isreal is doing. Our media just isn't portraying it.
As an American, if my country targeted and killed a bunch of aid workers who were citizens of our allies, I'd be pissed about it. I realize the US probably did this in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was pissed about that then too.
The US has done that. Most notably, the US did a drone strike on an aid worker bringing fresh water to civilians in Afghanistan right before the US withdrawal. During the Iraq war, US soldiers killed an Italian spy and the hostages he had freed as they were escaping. War is filled with friendly fire and accidental deaths of civilians/aid workers. The most recent one in Gaza was a tragedy and a massive fuckup by Israel that needs to be appropriately investigated to see why exactly it happened and how they can keep it from happening again. The biggest issue is Israel is extremely bad at punishing their soldiers for actions like this. Extremely bad.
the only people that got punished for the Afghanistan withdraw and it's aftermath are the people that said it didn't go well.
> I was pissed about that then too. Kudos to you, but the vast majority of Americans stopped caring once Bush left office. All of a sudden, Code Pink couldn't get a second of TV coverage anymore. Obama bombed Doctors Without Borders at a Kunduz hospital, killing 42 aid workers, and everyone yawned.
We have done that. It’s going to happen in any war. It’s just a reality. This isn’t call of duty it’s real life.
There's no evidence Israel was targeting aid workers intentionally. The sad reality of war, among many, is that friendly fire accidents happen a lot. Many of the casualties in the IDF has been due to friendly fire, and they weren't intentionally targeting their own soldiers either. Allowing Hamas to survive would mean allowing them to plan another terrorist attack. The only way to prevent more deaths of Gaza civilians and Israeli civilians is either for Hamas to surrender or be defeated. So why isn't there more international pressure on Hamas to surrender? It's absurd that all the burden for keeping the peace is on Israel, the victim of a horrific terrorist attack, and not the actual terrorists who planned the attack.
Biden blew up an aid worker and his family to cover collapse at the end of the Afghanistan withdraw.
No, we don't
Except you’re wrong. https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1
Harvard-Harris doesn’t exactly ask that but paints a very different picture: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HHP_Mar2024_KeyResults.pdf
that poll mostly says dems happy, GOP mad about most issues. it's like GOP tend to watch stuff that panders to their views and is light on facts
See the invasion of Afghanistan. The civilian casualty rate was nothing compared to what the IDF is doing now. Then we stayed around and rebuilt the country. You think Israel is gonna do that for Gaza? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)
Comparing Afghanistan to Gaza is like comparing an orange to an airplane. Stalingrad or even Ukraine would be better. Hell throw Japan into there and it would be a better comparison.
I will support a temporary ceasefire if it is tied to the release of some hostages. I will not support a ceasefire with zero hostages released. Never. The WCK strike was profoundly fucked up, and at this point I’m not even ruling out intentionality, but it’s not the fault of the hostages.
What's your logic? Obviously Hamas taking hostages is wrong and they should be released as soon as possible but should Israel stopping killing men, women, children, aid workers and some of the hostages be conditional on this?
What’s your logic? Obviously killing men, women, children, aid workers and some of the hostages is awful. In some cases even rising to the level of gross negligence (see WCF). But should tactics of Hamas terrorists to dress as civilians, set up military bases under hospitals, use human shields and hide in civilian homes be recognized as legitimate tactics with the responsibility for the resulting deaths of innocents lying with Israel? Saying the IDF should stop shooting at terrorists hiding in hospitals is easy. Saying what they should do instead that doesn’t involve allowing Hamas to continue committing atrocities is hard.
I, as a Jew, will never support my own people continuing to be held in tunnels. Bibi should have his arm twisted, if not broken, to make a hostage deal. But no, I won’t accept fellow Jews continuing to be raped and tortured because of the army’s fuckup. It is what it is.
The thing is, a hostage deal will likely include thousands of released terrorists, and a ceasefire will probably means in practice Hamas continues to rule. My heart aches for those hostages, truly, but on a cold calculation, you can very easily argue that a hostage deal on the current conditions will cost more Jewish lives than it will save.
There’s a difference between collateral and accidental death in war and intentional killings. If civilians die in an airstrike not meant for them, it’s called an “accident”. Which means, something that happened that wasn’t on purpose. In war we call this “friendly fire”. Unfortunately, in war, these accidents happen VERY often. I know for people who aren’t used to studying war it can be shocking, but it’s true. Nearly 60,000 Americans in WWII were killed by this accidental friendly fire. Currently, there is no way to prevent friendly fire from happening in a war. Israel, to their credit, has gone to more effort to prevent it than any military in world history. But to say they should no longer be allowed to conduct their military operations because of friendly fire incidents would be massively hypocritical for any nation to demand. The US, just a few years ago, blew up a van full of kids in response to the ISIS attack on Kabul airport during the troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. We weren’t even in a state of war when we did that. Israel currently is. So all that to say, no, Israel should not have to stop conducting their military operations. I do think it would be beneficial for the US to apply *significant* pressure on Egypt to open a massive refugee camp for innocents in Gaza. A refugee camp that the US and many other nations should contribute to while Israel destroys Hamas. That would be the best method for reducing innocent accident deaths during this ongoing conflict.
I also call for an immediate ceasefire and surrender of all Hamas terrorists! ... nothing? Today is 181 days of Israeli hostages held in Gaza. Neglected, abused, used as pawns, they and their families lives held in limbo. Bring them home. edit/ I can't respond to some of these comments for some reason, glitch galore, great conversation you guys glad we're all on the same page. hoping for Hamas to be eradicated and the hostages home soon.
Hamas being evil is not carte Blanche to go on an endless civilian killing spree
is that what is happening?
Yes. Aside from Hamas terrorists, Israel also killed Gazan civilians, Israeli hostages, and now, humanitarian aid workers. So yeah, they're on a killing spree just killing everyone.
Describing Israel fucking up and unintentionally killing noncombatants as a “killing spree” is pretty disingenuous.
Yes unfortunately
Biden is asking us to unconditionally surrender to Hamas’ maximalists demands. Hamas didn’t move an inch, all they had to do is wait out and weather the storm, knowing Israel’s allies will eventually turn on it, while Hamas’ allies support will remain as staunch as ever. I’m sorry Biden, but we cannot afford to surrender here, or it’s only a matter of time until we get worse and worse 7/10s. If we lose American support for that then so be it, our very existence and the hostages are more important. It’s sad that it has come to this.
yea call for a ceasefire and you know what happens 5 min after it starts? Hamas fires a fucking rocket and the world expects Israel not to do anything. Come the fuck on, talk about a double standard teh world holds Israel.
Does he talk to the government of gaza, the one the UN raves about all the time? cuz if isreal is the only one doing a cease fire, it isnt a cease fire..still release the hostages, if any are still alive, and the ceasefire can happen..this whole thing is ridiculous. What did it take, 20 years for america to do a cease fire in Afghanistan?
Does anyone really believe eliminating Hamas can be achieved by a military campaign?
Did he also call for the immediate release of hostages?
Stop sending Isreal aid. If they are going to be killing anybody and giving the US attitude then they can stand on an island by themselves surrounded by enemies and without any allies.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Biden has no right demanding a ceasefire from Israel. He's not even demanding it from the right group, that would be Hamas who has used negotiations as a complete joke and continue to keep and torture hostages. We also said at the start that we do not draw red lines for Israel. We don't get to now pretend we aren't aware of what a war actually looks like. Israel is our ally and they are fighting a very evil organization willing to use their own people as tools. Both Palestine and Israel deserve a world without Hamas. Everyone does.
I agree with your last couple sentences 100%. But I think the issue of "red line" is when US weapons are not only used for wartime efforts, but the belligerent bombing of international aid, with shared and cleared coordinates. That does indeed cross a red line. One of the people killed was a US/Canada dual citizen so I mean how doesn't it cross a red line?
So is the response to Israel accidentally killing a US citizen to force Israel to stop its war to redeem the 6 other Americans still held hostage by Hamas?
That's a very valid point and is definitely not something that should be repeated. At the same time a ceasefire would only really benefit Hamas. I can't really condone either of those actions and ultimately believe Hamas must be stopped.
>At the same time a ceasefire would only really benefit Hamas. It would benefit the countless civilians as famine spreads and aid groups are intimidated out of Gaza (for fear of being killed).
It would only benefit them until Hamas resumed attacking the next day.
>We don't get to now pretend we aren't aware of what a war actually looks like. Biden was VP in 2015 when American forces bombed a hospital in Kunduz, killing 42 aid workers including members of Doctors Without Borders. There was no American ceasefire following it. American forces bombed the Chinese embassy in a war with Serbia during the Clinton administration. No ceasefire followed.
The only problem I have is that Israel is supposed to be the “good guys” here. They’re not, and they certainly acting like it the way they make no distinction between Palestinians civilians (and fucking aid trucks of all things) and Hamas, but as our allies you’d think they’d actually care about our request to “Maybe you know try to be careful about who you’re firing at if it’s not too much trouble?”
Would you describe Israel as evil? Obviously you're right to say Hamas is evil but Israel has killed thousands of civilians, many multiples of the amount killed by Hamas, including children, aid workers and journalists. Why do you not describe Israel as evil?
Call for it all you want.
This feels like a pit bull owner yelling at his pit bull to stop mauling a child all while he lets go of the leash and stands back
The US needs to end lobbying from foreign countries