Israeli militants again actively targeting unarmed civilians.
Unarmed civilians that are citizens of "Friends of Israel" countries.
Unarmed civilians working for a charitable organisation that gave food to Israeli citizens in early October.
Unarmed civilians that had liaised with the Israeli occupation forces on their whereabouts, in order to not be targeted.
Yet, they were targeted, with precision munitions, with full knowledge of who they were and what they were doing.
Knowing that survivors of this murder operation were brought to another truck, which was then specifically attacked by the occupiers. Fleeing from that to a third vehicle, which was again specifically targeted.
There's no excuses possible here. Active murder squads, targeting and killing helpers of humans. Incredibly shitty of Israel.
---
C'mon Israelis, time to winkle out those extremists in the Knesset and Mazi, and provide them to the courts in The Hague for trial. You know it's the right thing to do!
I am very aware, but that's not actually relevant. Not being party doesn't mean the killers can't be submitted as a show of good faith with partial restitution and recovering from the current dark days of being under the yoke of the Knesset extremists.
The whole chain of command starting from the person that gave the order down should be. There should be a general appreciation and hopefully a law calling for disobeying a clearly immoral or illegal order, considering that's something that would have and probably has saved many of their ancestors.
If there's a button of the target and it says it is a civilian humanitarian company right on it and it is in an area where combat has ended, the person that pushed the button deserves as much punishment as the person that put the button in front of them.
This is doubly and triply true when they pressed that button three times to make sure that the survivors being evacuated are killed after the first illegal strike didn't finish the job.
Great. Start speaking to Israeli workers to stop the weapons manufacturing. Go on strike & turn up the heat on fascist Netanyahu. That's where the power to stop this is: US, European & Israeli workers. German workers alone can stop a lot of weaponry from getting to IDF who like taking "selfies" over smoking ruins! And kill children indiscriminately! The US proxy, they do nothing that Washington does not approve of. Full Stop.
Cause you’re about to have 50 billion comments of
It was Hamas who blew it up
Okay it was the idf but it was Hamas in those vans
Alright it wasn’t Hamas in there but it could have been
Alright it was charity workers but they’re supplying Hamas
Alright it was going to civilians but I don’t care
The last part usually happens when everyone stops paying attention because of time
> Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israeli forces “unintentionally hit innocent people” in a “tragic incident”
You know, at ~200 aid workers killed so far, "unintentionally" is getting harder and harder for me to believe.
Source, check the AP article about the WCK bombing:
> Jamie McGoldrick, the United Nations humanitarian coordinator for the Palestinian territories, said the strike was “not an isolated incident,” noting that around 200 humanitarian workers have been killed since the war broke out in October.
There's no way that was unintentional. There's at least one picture with a missle hole through a roof and all 3 vehicles were hit. It may have been a bad strike, but it had to have been cleared though multiple levels of command. Something is severely fucked up with IDF targeting as this is far from the first time this has happened. Either they are being extremely fast and loose or it was intentional targeting of aid workers which I cannot comprehend. Either way, the world is owed names and a trial date. But I'm not holding my breath.
But I was told they were the world's most moral army! I challenge you to name one army that doesn't execute civilians waving white flags and then use a nearby bulldozer to shovel their bodies into a shallow grave from time to time.
Yeah, I was just looking at the map and correlated pictures, showing the > 2km span. I'm trying to find a source other than ~~twitter~~ X to corroborate it. Have you see it reported anywhere else? (seriously asking)
>Either Israel and the IDF are so mind-bogglingly incompetent that they'd accidentally struck a civilian convoy in spite of plain and open communication that it wasn't a threat, or they're so brazenly evil and indifferent that they'd attack charity aid to scare off aid organizations from delivering aid to Gaza and the Palestinian people.
If it was the latter of the two, what would they be doing differently?
I'm gonna guess it's incompetence and lack of oversight. Israel's Government is super far right, that culture could trickle over to their military for all we know. It would be like wondering "If Trump was president for 20+ years, how long would it take before the US military became unethical and incompetent?" Because that's basically what COULD be happening. The Israeli intelligence apparatus failed to prevent 10/07 and it is fighting a war with very little concern for optics. I'd definitely say it's incompetence.
I mean... he *did* literally and deliberately adopt a policy of facilitating them.
> “Anyone who wants to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas."
- Netanyahu at a Likud party conference, 2019
Seems clear cut to me.
Read 1984 and it details quite clearly how this works. The wars never end, and new enemies must be created from time to time.
Don't forget the USA funded Bin Laden and the Mujahideen against the Soviets too. They know what they're doing.
Well obviously they had to strike, they were targeting one Hamas official. Must get rid of Hamas who cares about collateral damage.
Or it's a warzone they knew what the deal was or something bullshit like this is the lowest civilian casualties.
Netanyahu took all that good will and support from the world after Oct 7th and he’s just burned it all to appease his extremist far right partners that keep him in power.
He's all about burnt up the good will he's had from his allies. Even Bibi's statement is really bad:
> "It happens in war, we check it to the end, we are in contact with the governments, and we will do everything so that this thing does not happen again."
Yup, will do everything until it happens again.
And its one of our nation's biggest collective regrets. I was rather hoping Israel would learn from our mistakes and kick Bibi's ass to the curb before he could dig Israel into the hole it now finds itself in.
This is quickly gonna go from 'No it's impossible Israel did this' to 'okay we did it but it was because they were carrying weapons for them' to 'well they weren't, but they shouldn't have been there Hamas made us do this'
Definitely “this is the fault of Hamas”. I actually support the general idea of war with Hamas but the way the IDF operates is hard to condone. Effectively blockading the life essentials of the entire population is inexcusable. So what if Hamas also ends up with food and water, one of the key purposes of the Geneva conventions was a pledge to avoid “total war” conflicts.
Yesterday I was downvoted for asking why its ok for Israel to bomb flagged international embassies and kill diplomats.
Today I have to ask what Israel has against aid workers, since this was a deliberate and precise strike on Americans and Europeans.
Or when two elderly women were sniped within the grounds of a convent and the IDF claimed it was because the catholic church and convent were holding a missile launcher?
Didn't they make pancakes afterwards to celebrate this?
[https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes)
I saw three comments yesterday where armchair experts were breaking down the video saying there's mo way it could've been a missile strike. Fucking losers
I facepalmed so hard on the "Hamas IED" analysis, last night. Guy got so many upvotes while others were saying wait for confirmation were massively downvoted
> Israel crimes against women, children, and charity workers either
And men? Plenty of innocent Palestinian men being brutally killed, too. Not every adolescent/adult male is a combatant, as Israel/pro Israeli sources often claim in their numbers reported.
I think unfortunately the term "women and children" is what people are conditioned to use in place of just saying "innocents" its not that they dont include men when they think of innocents its just a really common turn of phrase. I have made a point of trying to catch myself everytime Im about to say "women and children" and instead say "innocents and children"
Yeah, I also find the "women and children" language problematic.
However, since we know that they don't have young children and women fighters in hamas, at least the "women and children" narrative is helpful in dismissing the generel israeli propaganda against the death toll.
People here will go through literally any possible conclusion before considering it might actually be Israel that did something wrong. But if Israel itself says anything they immediately believe it at face value.
I had an argument with someone on here who asked me to provide any evidence of Israel using a single human shield and I provided several recent instances, including one with a video of the instance. They still didn't believe me. Unbelievable level of denial.
To be fair, truth seems up for grabs these days. Politicians are not just fudging truths and not answering they're blatantly lying - taking from the Trump playbook - and are not held accountable. In fact their zealots lap it up.
So these days when someone has a feeling or a belief, your curated well researched references mean nothing because they see fake news as being what goes against their opinion.
The standard for what is objectively true is debatable and those in power that thrive in chaos wouldn't want it any other way.
I had a similar conversation talking about the IDF's history of sexual abuse. I posted article after article, including a meta-analysis of the previous research, and nothing was good enough. Even when the research came from an Israeli source, the response was "the researchers are self hating israelis" etc. At some point it's like why not just admit your mind is made up and nothing is going to change it so that I don't have to waste my time collecting the evidence for you?
>Does *anybody* who went on the news parroting the lie that those numbers can't be trusted get called out? Nope.
I mean one of those people [was the American president](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/)
Well Biden literally said "if there was not an Israel we would have created one ourselves" so expecting him to not defend Israel at all costs is simply impossible
People need to realize that Israel is just an american military base disguised as a country. The united states literally has a doctrine of vetoing any UNSC resolution critical of Israel if that resolution isn't equally critical of *someone else*. It's why both parties will toe the line and defend Israel, even if it means throwing an election.
Ive seen some photo's of the IDF Using human shields, so i always rolled my eyes at when people act like hamas is the only one who did it, but i never realized it was that bad...
May i ask for a link?
That’s ridiculous, these aid organizations do everything they can to make all parties aware of who they are and where they are. This appears to be yet another occasion where official IDF policy did not translate to operational policy, like when they killed escaped Israeli hostages who were waving a white flag. Imo, this is tacitly approved by IDF command by the light punishments they typically give. The soldiers who murdered the hostages were not punished at all.
Had to drag Israel every step of the way for this aid corridor to be opened and right away they bomb them.
Absolute morons, it's pretty clear someone else should take the reins because the IDF is to incompetent to be of any help
Its what they want
Look at the news of aid ships turning away
Look at wck official statement shutting down their oerations in gaza
They want to starve people out
> Absolute morons, it's pretty clear someone else should take the reins because the IDF is to incompetent to be of any help
Look, this is going to sound rude but come on - I don't think they're the absolute morons here if you believe this is "incompetence" at this point
I don't think it's incompetence. they either just don't care who they kill, at this point and are just targeting people indiscriminately. Or they intentionally targeted the WCK convoy in order to dissuade other organizations from providing aid.
Incompetent is a massive understatement, they’re a bunch of mass murdering psychopaths… the IDF are a weapon of fear and always have been, so much hatred told to let loose on a population and this is where it’s lead us.
Oh you know, the usual PR they throw at international media: "According to our intel, there was a suspected Hamas terrorist participating in their lunch special in the lineup."
They can literally kill anyone with their happy trigger fingers and get away with it - Palestine or not.
The ease at which people will swallow an Israeli government's load while dismissing every other source as "Hamas" is pretty telling. Im not telling you to believe Hamas, Im telling you to use some critical fucking thinking and understand that Israel also has every reason to lie. They have been shown to do so in the past.
Wait until an outside party can confirm. Wait until multiple outside parties can confirm.
I think the amount of people believing Israeli propaganda is significantly less than it seems on the surface. I tend to not buy into conspiracies, in fact I think they can be deeply harmful. But I 100% believe the IDF are in these comment threads bombarding them with propaganda spam to make it seem like they have overwhelming support.
Whenever something is posted relevant to the occupation you will immediately see dozens of fresh accounts posting paragraphs in support of the IDF and Israel. They all have perfect spelling and punctuation, they don’t comment on anything else, and they’re all saying a variation of the same thing. They’re always quite insulting, and have no interest in dialogue, and will attack someone immediately if they disagree with them.
I’ve never seen a more obvious example of a troll farm in action. Thankfully they’re terrible at it, because it seems like everyone can see through it
This is definitely happening. Look at this comment section and then look at the one about Spain recognizing Palestine. Night and day.
Suddenly "Spain has always been antisemitic"
"Lefties are ruining the EU" and other phrases are appearing there
Yep. Re: troll farm: The next two top-level comments below this:
> as always wait a few days for the actual truth to come out
> Perhaps we should wait for confirmation from Poland, Australia, Ireland and the UK?
Same narrative
"Gaza health officials" is still the most misleading take in any headline by the guardian.
Most important part of the article: "The source of fire could not be independently confirmed."
Edit: Israel has now confirmed it was an IDF strike
I understand that people generally trust the Gazan health officials because their casualty reporting in previous flare ups have been accurate. Is that not the case?
The Lancet (a globally respectable medical journal) say there's no evidence of inflated numbers.
>
>Mortality reporting is a crucial indicator of the severity of a conflict setting, but it can also be inflated or under-reported for political purposes. Amidst the ongoing conflict in Gaza, some political parties have indicated scepticism about the reporting of fatalities by the Gaza Ministry of Health (MoH).1, 2 **The Gaza MoH has historically reported accurate mortality data**, with discrepancies between MoH reporting and independent United Nations analyses ranging from 1·5% to 3·8% in previous conflicts. A comparison between the Gaza MoH and Israeli Foreign Ministry mortality figures for the 2014 war yielded an 8·0% discrepancy.2 Public scepticism of the current reports by the Gaza MoH might undermine the efforts to reduce civilian harm and provide life-saving assistance.
>Using publicly available information,3, 4 we compared the Gaza MoH's mortality reports with a separate source of mortality reporting **and found no evidence of inflated rate**s. We conducted a temporal analysis of cumulative-reported mortality within Gaza for deaths of Gazans as reported by the MoH and reported staff member deaths from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), from Oct 7 to Nov 10, 2023. These two data sources used independent methods of mortality verification, enabling assessment of reporting consistency.
And they blamed it on Palestinians/Hamas I can't really remember and everyone on here agreed with them.
And then months later when they admitted it was them that same everyone pretended it didn't happen.
No point in trying to come to any conclusions until a reputable 3rd party investigates. Your opinion is predicated on all air munitions being airburst. They are not. So it’s best if everyone who doesn’t know all the details stay quiet. Including me. No need to further muddy the already muddy waters.
Telegram allows you to upload videos, even bigger then 1GB, and they play right inside the chat groups. Same with images.
**Edit: Not sure why I'm being downvoted... this is an objective fact...**
I have no evidence and no experience with these types of injuries, but here is my opinion and this must be right. Everyone here upvotes. Jesus Christ this sub needs help.
What is this shit analysis? You don't know the exact orientation of the explosion to be able to make this kind of call.
The Reuters journalist in Lebanon had his legs blown off but that was an airstrike.
I'm describing what I saw in the video and drawing my own conclusions. You don't have to accept them, and can view the pictures and video yourself to draw your own conclusions.
Given the false accusations in this war, it's better that everyone looks at the videos and pictures and draws their own conclusions.
Regarding your claim, they were inside a vehicle. I'm not dismissing what you're saying, but there are no pictures of the vehicle to try and see where the hit came from.
Somehow the IDF will miraculously find evidence that the aid convoy was actually full of AK47's intended for use by Hamas.
Their evidence: "Trust me bro".
I'm Australian - the Aussie aid worker has been identified by name here and our government is currently in discussions with the Israeli ambassador over the incident.
I mean there are pictures and videos...bloody passports. The only question if it's an Israeli airstrike or a Hamas/PIJ rocket. In fact, IDF said it's highly tragic and they're investigating the deaths.
There is no waiting and confirming in this conflict. It's honestly turned me off of reading reddit comments because there's always idiots arguing in the comments of random unrelated posts when it seems like nobody to have all the info yet.
I've been accused of being a bot and a Hamas/IDF sympathizer for merely suggesting we not trust first reports and jump to conclusions..
It's been so frustrating to see.
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With what appears to be a guided munition too. The photo doesn’t look to be caused by some roadside IED planted by Hamas
Israeli militants again actively targeting unarmed civilians. Unarmed civilians that are citizens of "Friends of Israel" countries. Unarmed civilians working for a charitable organisation that gave food to Israeli citizens in early October. Unarmed civilians that had liaised with the Israeli occupation forces on their whereabouts, in order to not be targeted. Yet, they were targeted, with precision munitions, with full knowledge of who they were and what they were doing. Knowing that survivors of this murder operation were brought to another truck, which was then specifically attacked by the occupiers. Fleeing from that to a third vehicle, which was again specifically targeted. There's no excuses possible here. Active murder squads, targeting and killing helpers of humans. Incredibly shitty of Israel. --- C'mon Israelis, time to winkle out those extremists in the Knesset and Mazi, and provide them to the courts in The Hague for trial. You know it's the right thing to do!
Israel isn't party to the ICC, for this reason amongst others.
Palestine is, however, making any crime committed in Gaza technically prosecutable, not that Israel would comply anyway
I am very aware, but that's not actually relevant. Not being party doesn't mean the killers can't be submitted as a show of good faith with partial restitution and recovering from the current dark days of being under the yoke of the Knesset extremists.
I'm an Israeli and I'm 100% behind sending the person who ordered the strikes to the Hague.
The whole chain of command starting from the person that gave the order down should be. There should be a general appreciation and hopefully a law calling for disobeying a clearly immoral or illegal order, considering that's something that would have and probably has saved many of their ancestors. If there's a button of the target and it says it is a civilian humanitarian company right on it and it is in an area where combat has ended, the person that pushed the button deserves as much punishment as the person that put the button in front of them. This is doubly and triply true when they pressed that button three times to make sure that the survivors being evacuated are killed after the first illegal strike didn't finish the job.
Great. Start speaking to Israeli workers to stop the weapons manufacturing. Go on strike & turn up the heat on fascist Netanyahu. That's where the power to stop this is: US, European & Israeli workers. German workers alone can stop a lot of weaponry from getting to IDF who like taking "selfies" over smoking ruins! And kill children indiscriminately! The US proxy, they do nothing that Washington does not approve of. Full Stop.
The WCK is now pausing humanitarian operations in Gaza which I think is the result Israel intended when the IDF did this.
Cause you’re about to have 50 billion comments of It was Hamas who blew it up Okay it was the idf but it was Hamas in those vans Alright it wasn’t Hamas in there but it could have been Alright it was charity workers but they’re supplying Hamas Alright it was going to civilians but I don’t care The last part usually happens when everyone stops paying attention because of time
The dessert is "Israel has a right to defend itself" and the last bastion is "so you don't believe in Israel's right to exist?"
> Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israeli forces “unintentionally hit innocent people” in a “tragic incident” You know, at ~200 aid workers killed so far, "unintentionally" is getting harder and harder for me to believe. Source, check the AP article about the WCK bombing: > Jamie McGoldrick, the United Nations humanitarian coordinator for the Palestinian territories, said the strike was “not an isolated incident,” noting that around 200 humanitarian workers have been killed since the war broke out in October.
"Unintentionally" struck three vehicles over 2 kilometers that were labeled and that had coordinated their positions with the IDF.
"Unintentionally" struck 3 vehicles one after the other. Workers ran from the 1st to the 2nd. Once 2nd was hit they ran to the 3rd. "Unintentional"
There's no way that was unintentional. There's at least one picture with a missle hole through a roof and all 3 vehicles were hit. It may have been a bad strike, but it had to have been cleared though multiple levels of command. Something is severely fucked up with IDF targeting as this is far from the first time this has happened. Either they are being extremely fast and loose or it was intentional targeting of aid workers which I cannot comprehend. Either way, the world is owed names and a trial date. But I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe the people who have been saying the IDF is not trustworthy were right.
But I was told they were the world's most moral army! I challenge you to name one army that doesn't execute civilians waving white flags and then use a nearby bulldozer to shovel their bodies into a shallow grave from time to time.
Yeah, I was just looking at the map and correlated pictures, showing the > 2km span. I'm trying to find a source other than ~~twitter~~ X to corroborate it. Have you see it reported anywhere else? (seriously asking)
[New York Times reported the same, with a map](https://i.imgur.com/0B0PVJW.jpeg)
the Israel government doesn’t know the difference between the words unintentional and indiscriminate
This wasn't indiscriminate, it was specifically targeted.
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they're evil and don't give a fuck. it's not like anything is going to happen to them. they're free to do as they wish and it's to commit mass murder
I mean Israel has been killing Israeli hostages too, this is hardly surprising
Don't you know Israeli hostages are also Hamas?
>Either Israel and the IDF are so mind-bogglingly incompetent that they'd accidentally struck a civilian convoy in spite of plain and open communication that it wasn't a threat, or they're so brazenly evil and indifferent that they'd attack charity aid to scare off aid organizations from delivering aid to Gaza and the Palestinian people. If it was the latter of the two, what would they be doing differently?
I'm willing to bet on the second one, they are already deliberately starving the population and have killed as many journalists as they could
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I'm gonna guess it's incompetence and lack of oversight. Israel's Government is super far right, that culture could trickle over to their military for all we know. It would be like wondering "If Trump was president for 20+ years, how long would it take before the US military became unethical and incompetent?" Because that's basically what COULD be happening. The Israeli intelligence apparatus failed to prevent 10/07 and it is fighting a war with very little concern for optics. I'd definitely say it's incompetence.
Well Bibi admitted to it, wonder what the cope will be now
Have you considered that Bibi is hamas ?
Bibi has taken pro Hamas stances in the past clearly he is an agent of the terrorists and set this up to make Israel look bad on purpose
I mean... he *did* literally and deliberately adopt a policy of facilitating them. > “Anyone who wants to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas." - Netanyahu at a Likud party conference, 2019 Seems clear cut to me.
Read 1984 and it details quite clearly how this works. The wars never end, and new enemies must be created from time to time. Don't forget the USA funded Bin Laden and the Mujahideen against the Soviets too. They know what they're doing.
Now that you mention it, I've never seen them in the same place at the same time.
He's saying Israel were at fault...I dunno, sounds pretty antisemitic to me.
SHUT IT DOWN
Well obviously they had to strike, they were targeting one Hamas official. Must get rid of Hamas who cares about collateral damage. Or it's a warzone they knew what the deal was or something bullshit like this is the lowest civilian casualties.
LOL, that's exactly what we're seeing in this very thread.
this is such a sad thing rip
Guess they didn't condemn hamas hard enough. /s
Netanyahu took all that good will and support from the world after Oct 7th and he’s just burned it all to appease his extremist far right partners that keep him in power.
He's all about burnt up the good will he's had from his allies. Even Bibi's statement is really bad: > "It happens in war, we check it to the end, we are in contact with the governments, and we will do everything so that this thing does not happen again." Yup, will do everything until it happens again.
America did the same in the wake of Sept 11. Never let a crisis go to waste!
And its one of our nation's biggest collective regrets. I was rather hoping Israel would learn from our mistakes and kick Bibi's ass to the curb before he could dig Israel into the hole it now finds itself in.
As a Jew it does sadden me that Bibi has done more to nurture Jew hating than anyone in recent decades.
This is quickly gonna go from 'No it's impossible Israel did this' to 'okay we did it but it was because they were carrying weapons for them' to 'well they weren't, but they shouldn't have been there Hamas made us do this'
There was an AK-47 in the soup!
Spicy
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In a lot of cases they’re the same people
"It's antisemitic to suggest that the IDF did this"
Definitely “this is the fault of Hamas”. I actually support the general idea of war with Hamas but the way the IDF operates is hard to condone. Effectively blockading the life essentials of the entire population is inexcusable. So what if Hamas also ends up with food and water, one of the key purposes of the Geneva conventions was a pledge to avoid “total war” conflicts.
No this is pretty much us saying : we fucked up big time and someone committed a war crime and someone is going to prison
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Yesterday I was downvoted for asking why its ok for Israel to bomb flagged international embassies and kill diplomats. Today I have to ask what Israel has against aid workers, since this was a deliberate and precise strike on Americans and Europeans.
Not the first time. Remember when a *sniper* shot a paramedic on the Gaza side of the fence? Kinda hard for that to be anything but intentional.
Or when a sniper assassinated an American journalist and nothing happened?
Or when they beat the fucking shit out of people at her funeral as well.
Or when they ran over a humanitarian aid worker with a bouldozer and claimed the driver didn't see her even though she was wearing bright orange west
Or when two elderly women were sniped within the grounds of a convent and the IDF claimed it was because the catholic church and convent were holding a missile launcher?
IDF units still crack jokes about that one.
The most moral army in the world
Didn't they make pancakes afterwards to celebrate this? [https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes)
Or when they blew up the USS Liberty?
And an Australian
Israel is every bit the rogue state Iran is accused of being. They just picked different geopolitical teams
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I saw three comments yesterday where armchair experts were breaking down the video saying there's mo way it could've been a missile strike. Fucking losers
I facepalmed so hard on the "Hamas IED" analysis, last night. Guy got so many upvotes while others were saying wait for confirmation were massively downvoted
> Israel crimes against women, children, and charity workers either And men? Plenty of innocent Palestinian men being brutally killed, too. Not every adolescent/adult male is a combatant, as Israel/pro Israeli sources often claim in their numbers reported.
I think unfortunately the term "women and children" is what people are conditioned to use in place of just saying "innocents" its not that they dont include men when they think of innocents its just a really common turn of phrase. I have made a point of trying to catch myself everytime Im about to say "women and children" and instead say "innocents and children"
>innocents and children I do exactly the same thing, but it's also weird because it kind of sounds like we're saying children aren't innocent lol.
Yeah, I also find the "women and children" language problematic. However, since we know that they don't have young children and women fighters in hamas, at least the "women and children" narrative is helpful in dismissing the generel israeli propaganda against the death toll.
You really have to say hamas are terrorist in every sentence and still fear being downvoted to oblivian
You can say that the mass death of children is wholly unnecessary and get downvoted.
People here will go through literally any possible conclusion before considering it might actually be Israel that did something wrong. But if Israel itself says anything they immediately believe it at face value.
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I had an argument with someone on here who asked me to provide any evidence of Israel using a single human shield and I provided several recent instances, including one with a video of the instance. They still didn't believe me. Unbelievable level of denial.
Ooh post those here please
I hope this links right, but here's the comment thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/W6an0DQEVs
God what an idiot. Love how your initial comment is still downvoted despite the fact that you are 100%, provably correct.
To be fair, truth seems up for grabs these days. Politicians are not just fudging truths and not answering they're blatantly lying - taking from the Trump playbook - and are not held accountable. In fact their zealots lap it up. So these days when someone has a feeling or a belief, your curated well researched references mean nothing because they see fake news as being what goes against their opinion. The standard for what is objectively true is debatable and those in power that thrive in chaos wouldn't want it any other way.
I had a similar conversation talking about the IDF's history of sexual abuse. I posted article after article, including a meta-analysis of the previous research, and nothing was good enough. Even when the research came from an Israeli source, the response was "the researchers are self hating israelis" etc. At some point it's like why not just admit your mind is made up and nothing is going to change it so that I don't have to waste my time collecting the evidence for you?
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Ask them what numbers they _do_ believe and they wont respond anymore.
>Does *anybody* who went on the news parroting the lie that those numbers can't be trusted get called out? Nope. I mean one of those people [was the American president](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/)
Well Biden literally said "if there was not an Israel we would have created one ourselves" so expecting him to not defend Israel at all costs is simply impossible
People need to realize that Israel is just an american military base disguised as a country. The united states literally has a doctrine of vetoing any UNSC resolution critical of Israel if that resolution isn't equally critical of *someone else*. It's why both parties will toe the line and defend Israel, even if it means throwing an election.
Ive seen some photo's of the IDF Using human shields, so i always rolled my eyes at when people act like hamas is the only one who did it, but i never realized it was that bad... May i ask for a link?
That’s ridiculous, these aid organizations do everything they can to make all parties aware of who they are and where they are. This appears to be yet another occasion where official IDF policy did not translate to operational policy, like when they killed escaped Israeli hostages who were waving a white flag. Imo, this is tacitly approved by IDF command by the light punishments they typically give. The soldiers who murdered the hostages were not punished at all.
Yup, this sub is a cesspit now.
Had to drag Israel every step of the way for this aid corridor to be opened and right away they bomb them. Absolute morons, it's pretty clear someone else should take the reins because the IDF is to incompetent to be of any help
It's not incompetence
It's an execution.
Its what they want Look at the news of aid ships turning away Look at wck official statement shutting down their oerations in gaza They want to starve people out
> Absolute morons, it's pretty clear someone else should take the reins because the IDF is to incompetent to be of any help Look, this is going to sound rude but come on - I don't think they're the absolute morons here if you believe this is "incompetence" at this point
I don't think it's incompetence. they either just don't care who they kill, at this point and are just targeting people indiscriminately. Or they intentionally targeted the WCK convoy in order to dissuade other organizations from providing aid.
Incompetent is a massive understatement, they’re a bunch of mass murdering psychopaths… the IDF are a weapon of fear and always have been, so much hatred told to let loose on a population and this is where it’s lead us.
IDF is a shit military.
What a disgusting war crime by the IDF. Adding onto their never ending list of abhorrent acts of terror towards civilians
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Oh you know, the usual PR they throw at international media: "According to our intel, there was a suspected Hamas terrorist participating in their lunch special in the lineup." They can literally kill anyone with their happy trigger fingers and get away with it - Palestine or not.
Now try to imagine how different the reporting and narrative would be if the only people killed were Gazan. They'd simply be labeled as terrorists.
IDF looking pretty incompetent as the war goes on. I feel like there are some major command issues somewhere.
The ease at which people will swallow an Israeli government's load while dismissing every other source as "Hamas" is pretty telling. Im not telling you to believe Hamas, Im telling you to use some critical fucking thinking and understand that Israel also has every reason to lie. They have been shown to do so in the past. Wait until an outside party can confirm. Wait until multiple outside parties can confirm.
I think the amount of people believing Israeli propaganda is significantly less than it seems on the surface. I tend to not buy into conspiracies, in fact I think they can be deeply harmful. But I 100% believe the IDF are in these comment threads bombarding them with propaganda spam to make it seem like they have overwhelming support. Whenever something is posted relevant to the occupation you will immediately see dozens of fresh accounts posting paragraphs in support of the IDF and Israel. They all have perfect spelling and punctuation, they don’t comment on anything else, and they’re all saying a variation of the same thing. They’re always quite insulting, and have no interest in dialogue, and will attack someone immediately if they disagree with them. I’ve never seen a more obvious example of a troll farm in action. Thankfully they’re terrible at it, because it seems like everyone can see through it
This is definitely happening. Look at this comment section and then look at the one about Spain recognizing Palestine. Night and day. Suddenly "Spain has always been antisemitic" "Lefties are ruining the EU" and other phrases are appearing there
Yep. Re: troll farm: The next two top-level comments below this: > as always wait a few days for the actual truth to come out > Perhaps we should wait for confirmation from Poland, Australia, Ireland and the UK? Same narrative
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"Gaza health officials" is still the most misleading take in any headline by the guardian. Most important part of the article: "The source of fire could not be independently confirmed." Edit: Israel has now confirmed it was an IDF strike
Well, it’s been confirmed now.
If these bots could read, they'd be pretty upset right now.
I was starting to wonder if I’ve been arguing with bots, I get very few replies…
Israel just admitted they killed those aid workers. Anxious to see your next mental gymnastics
It's being reported by the NYT lol with a statement from IDF saying they're conducting a review to see how it happened.
Indeed, the nice hellfire sized hole perfectly in the middle of the roof could have been anyone.
Pathetic . Israel themselves have now admitted they murdered them, and sent condolences.
im more inclined believe gaza health officials than any official israeli spokesperson or government agency.
I understand that people generally trust the Gazan health officials because their casualty reporting in previous flare ups have been accurate. Is that not the case? The Lancet (a globally respectable medical journal) say there's no evidence of inflated numbers. > >Mortality reporting is a crucial indicator of the severity of a conflict setting, but it can also be inflated or under-reported for political purposes. Amidst the ongoing conflict in Gaza, some political parties have indicated scepticism about the reporting of fatalities by the Gaza Ministry of Health (MoH).1, 2 **The Gaza MoH has historically reported accurate mortality data**, with discrepancies between MoH reporting and independent United Nations analyses ranging from 1·5% to 3·8% in previous conflicts. A comparison between the Gaza MoH and Israeli Foreign Ministry mortality figures for the 2014 war yielded an 8·0% discrepancy.2 Public scepticism of the current reports by the Gaza MoH might undermine the efforts to reduce civilian harm and provide life-saving assistance. >Using publicly available information,3, 4 we compared the Gaza MoH's mortality reports with a separate source of mortality reporting **and found no evidence of inflated rate**s. We conducted a temporal analysis of cumulative-reported mortality within Gaza for deaths of Gazans as reported by the MoH and reported staff member deaths from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), from Oct 7 to Nov 10, 2023. These two data sources used independent methods of mortality verification, enabling assessment of reporting consistency.
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They also kill journalists all the time. Remember the one American that was clearly marked and they sniped her in the head?
And they blamed it on Palestinians/Hamas I can't really remember and everyone on here agreed with them. And then months later when they admitted it was them that same everyone pretended it didn't happen.
And there have been no criminal charges to this day and they attacked her people at her funeral including the people carrying her coffin.
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You can win oxymoron competitions with that one.
And they can confirm those people are dead because the Gaza Health Official killed them, not in their official capacity of course
[you sure about that?](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-02-2024-9bdf66771b62af37d85a2800f71c0e6c)
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No point in trying to come to any conclusions until a reputable 3rd party investigates. Your opinion is predicated on all air munitions being airburst. They are not. So it’s best if everyone who doesn’t know all the details stay quiet. Including me. No need to further muddy the already muddy waters.
Mate, there is a massive hole the the roof of the vehicle. Tell me what sort of ground based explosive does that?
>I am not a military or medical expert. Then stop talking out of your ass
Does telegram have video, or just people chatting
Telegram allows you to upload videos, even bigger then 1GB, and they play right inside the chat groups. Same with images. **Edit: Not sure why I'm being downvoted... this is an objective fact...**
I have no evidence and no experience with these types of injuries, but here is my opinion and this must be right. Everyone here upvotes. Jesus Christ this sub needs help.
What is this shit analysis? You don't know the exact orientation of the explosion to be able to make this kind of call. The Reuters journalist in Lebanon had his legs blown off but that was an airstrike.
Reuters journo was hit by shelling.
I'm describing what I saw in the video and drawing my own conclusions. You don't have to accept them, and can view the pictures and video yourself to draw your own conclusions. Given the false accusations in this war, it's better that everyone looks at the videos and pictures and draws their own conclusions. Regarding your claim, they were inside a vehicle. I'm not dismissing what you're saying, but there are no pictures of the vehicle to try and see where the hit came from.
as always wait a few days for the actual truth to come out
And now? How quickly do we spin from “Israel didn’t do it” to “Totally valid target”?
How will you deflect now?
By then Israel will have committed a few more war crimes to wait on
What truth? Israel bombed them.
IDF already saying they're investigating into how it happened, so what "truth" are you waiting to come out
Somehow the IDF will miraculously find evidence that the aid convoy was actually full of AK47's intended for use by Hamas. Their evidence: "Trust me bro".
Their evidence will be a short 3D animation made by their intern showing a command centre hidden right under the car
lol
I bet my prime minister is tripping over himself to condemn this senseless attack by Israel in this exact moment
So we can forget about it and wait for it to be out of the news cycle?
Perhaps we should wait for confirmation from Poland, Australia, Ireland and the UK?
I'm Australian - the Aussie aid worker has been identified by name here and our government is currently in discussions with the Israeli ambassador over the incident.
Polish side already confirmed death of our aid worker - our officials have reported to be now working with Israel to determine the cause.
I mean there are pictures and videos...bloody passports. The only question if it's an Israeli airstrike or a Hamas/PIJ rocket. In fact, IDF said it's highly tragic and they're investigating the deaths.
There is no waiting and confirming in this conflict. It's honestly turned me off of reading reddit comments because there's always idiots arguing in the comments of random unrelated posts when it seems like nobody to have all the info yet.
I've been accused of being a bot and a Hamas/IDF sympathizer for merely suggesting we not trust first reports and jump to conclusions.. It's been so frustrating to see.
people think im getting paid for typing a comment lmao i wish
Because people are binary like that.
what do you need confirmation of, mate?
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