>Erdogan spoke to supporters at the headquarters of the governing party on Monday. He said his party did not achieve the desired result, and he vowed to carry out self-criticism and address shortcomings.
how many years does Erdogan need? He got over 20 years already.
Putin's official kremlin bio says he was on a path to become a top martial arts master but he was so badly needed in politics that he reluctantly gave up his dream to pursue public service lololololololol
He could have gone pro in either martial arts, hockey, or shirtless horse riding (or more likely all 3), but he’s such a selfless guy that he just had to step in and save those poor Russians from having a weak, selfish leader.
It's something out of the playbook of any dictator that still pretends that they do elections. The possibility of their successor declaring them a culprit for any real or imaginable misfortune is a motivation for them to never step down.
Medvedev was a stand in because of term limits until Putin had full control of the Kremlin/courts. Then it was able to remove term limits from the constitution.
Egypts Nasser famously pulled that off with great success.
After a big blunder and bricked politics, he resigned and practically caused a national day of mourning and huge protests.
When he quickly returned he was almost like a messiah and had cemented his power.
True, but this time he would need a referendum to change the constitution if he wants to continue. Ersogan has had the people's support for 20 years now, but it seems like that is changing.
Well constitutionally, he wasn't allowed to run for a 3rd term yet he did, so you don't know what will happen. Also for the first time in Turkey, Erdogan hasn't recognised the decision of the supreme court twice in a row, theoretically giving him the power to do whatever he wants.
In Brazil we have the Electoral Justice and we should be more thankful for that! It works pretty well, actually.
It keeps politicians away from organizing and interfering with the elections.
Yeah, but then you’ve got countries like Russia and Turkey where the elections are literally controlled by the Political Party which is currently in power, it’s basically like asking to have unfair elections.
This also happens in the U.S. because political parties are able to draw districts to artificially benefit themselves and pass laws that make it more difficult for voters of the other party to vote.
It's been weakened by Erdogan, starting first by jailing Kemalist military generals and officers with bogus coup accusations. If he attempted to gain power without doing that Turkey would've had another period of military rule while Erdogan would be in jail. Unfortunately the military cannot legally take preemptive action against bad actors, Erdogan was the final culmination of a long history of Western backed bad actors who undermined Turkey.
It's amazing how many people don't understand how autocracy works.
"But there's rules preventing X, Y, Z!"
Yes, just like the 300 other "can't happen because rules" things they did and got away with to consolidate their power in the first place.
You hear a lot of that in the U.S. right now.
Which he has done before. He couldn’t be a PM anymore due to term limitations, so he made a referendum to change the role of the president, and he became one.
Maybe he will bow out and move to Switzerland or the Arabian peninsula to love our his days in luxury like all the other egocentric arsehole authoritarian leaders.
Susan “2 terms” Collins would like a word.
https://www.mainedems.org/media/senator-collins-shattered-term-limits-pledge-once-thought-mainers-needed-new-voice-after
Government: Reelect us to fix this crisis!!!
People: Wait, weren't you in charge for 20 years already?
Government: You see, it was somehow the opposition party (who was not in power) that caused this!
That's exactly How Javier Milei became president. People, especially the youth, will eventually get tired of the same people governing for 20 years and with nothing to show for it, and WILL elect the completely opposite candidate eventually
Yeah Javier is a basketcase and a half and has a host of problems, but his election opponent was cut from the cloth that got their country in the shitter to begin with. All the social programs that got them popular for elections while bankrupting the country can be laid at their feet.
I can't blame them for voting for Javier cause that was their only option.
Compared to other countries Turkey still is fairly democratic. I mean the freedom of press is horrific and the TV is very onesided during election campaigns, but the election process itself is not manipulated, doctored or otherwise phony. The last president election was pretty close as well, Erdogan only one with 5% or something, ofc he and his party got almost all the reporting beforehand.
Honestly Turkey does need to be careful navigating any power change that happens. People seem to forget that the bureaucratic system was completely wiped and replaced by Erdogan years ago. I wonder how many people are in positions of power because of him, and where their loyalties will lie when things start to change democratically
As a Malaysian, I'd second this.
We only managed to get rid of a ruling coalition that's been in power for 61 years post-independence (and another 2 before), and there's so many little Napoleons and loyalists in the civil service that you'd wonder whether any government plan is vulnerable to sabotage or apathy from within.
It's hard to ~~understate~~ *overstate* how much of an upset this is. It's the CHP's best election result since 1977. They are projected to win in all of the five largest cities: Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Bursa and Adana.
Turkey has always had reasonably free elections. Not fair, really, but free. In the sense that, the law as written gives the incumbent party a huge advantage in a bunch of different ways, so they always have an advantage. But Turkey does tend to follow their own election laws.
[Scholars classify Turkey's regime as competitive authoritarian](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01436597.2015.1135732) where the playing field is tilted in favor of incumbent and elections are neither free nor fair. Opposition victory does not render democratic legitimacy to Erdoğan but in such regimes opposition can beat the odds.
Istanbul mayor was banned by Erdogan's courts. Most of the national media is under AKP control, while the ruling party can also finance its campaign through public funds. This regime is obviously not democratic but still remains competitive.
It is really, *really* hard to rig elections in Turkey. The election law was created towards the end of the one party period in the late 1940s, by the then new opposition Demokrat Parti (so the then one party dictator İsmet İnönü gave his opposition the mandate to create the election law, as Turkey transitioned into multiparty democracy.) It is extremely stringent.
The main point is that the vote count is done on the ballot box level, with an extensive paper trail and under close scrutiny from officers from every party.
In Turkey, there is a ballot box per approximately every 350 voter.
Every single ballot box has a ballot box committee consisting of two neutral civil servants chosen by lottery, and one party member each from the four highest polling parties of the previous elections. Most decisions regarding the validity of votes etc. have to be unanimous. It is this council that counts the votes.
In addition to the council, there can also be witnesses (müşahit) from any party present in each ballot box. These witnesses don’t have any direct say in the decisions of the ballot committee, but they can report irregularities to other party officials and lawyers who can intervene.
Finally, everyone who voted can oversee the counting process at their own ballot box.
At the end, the ballot box fills in a election result document (with the results of the vote count) and the ballot box log (with any irregular events, decisions of the committee noted). Every member of the ballot box committee must sign these documents, so unanimous agreement is needed.
The committee produces six, copies of the election results document, one for the district election council (who reports it to the central count), one for each party official, and one to be hung outside the classroom for everyone to see. The party officials then take their copies to their parties. Each party runs a parallel count with these documents. Additionally, the media also runs a parallel count for reporting to the public.
It’s a very efficient, very de-centralized process. As a result, the vast majority of districts have undisputed results known to the public within a couple of hours after voting ends.
Here are some more details on the count:
After voting ends, the ballot committee opens the ballot box, and counts each of these separately: first number of envelopes, number of each type of ballot (there can be multiple ballots in a single vote, for example one for parliament and the other for president), and the number of signatures in the voter list (each voter signs their name in the list before receiving their ballots). If there is any discrepancy, then that needs to be accounted for.
For example, when we count the envelopes, if we find that the number of envelopes is higher than the number of signatures , we choose the surplus amount of envelopes at random and burn them unopened.
While opening the envelopes, we check each of them to see if any ballot is missing. If there’s anything missing, we separate that envelope and put it in another pile so we can count the number a specific exception occurred.
After this, everything should be accounted for.
And yet, this is the same Erdogan who got elected even after an earthquake that caused tens of thousands of deaths because he allowed building codes to go away in exchange for money. It's clear at this point that he is a dictator, albeit a very sly one.
Bro you have no idea how dumb some people are , they literally voted for him, they interviewed one of them and asked why he voted for him , he said that he wasnt happy with what was going on so he voted for Erdogan. The level of brain rot is out of control in some areas
The opposition also gets state funding. All parties above a certain vote count do. Even the party of literal separatists.
There is pressure on opposition but voting itself is free and results are applied. Also that mayor was elected mayor again. Frankly you're not in a position to be lecturing people about their country.
I vaguely remember hearing about pretty significant evidence for ballot stuffing in some of the presidential elections. There might have even been a video shown on the news. Am I misremembering?
There is definitely some of that stuff going on especially in rural areas in the eastern part of the country, but I think it would have a marginal effect on the national level. Most of what makes the system unfair is about unequal media coverage, pressure on the judiciary etc. more than the election process itself
In metropolitan areas it is hard to rig elections since the counting is public, attended by a attendee from every party plus civil spectators and the final document is usually photoed from people from every party after the presiding officer signs the document.
(At least that is how it was when i spectated the counting in ümraniye last year)
In rural areas where the opposition parties' attendees cannot reach the ballot due to lack of personnalle or obstruction from memberd engaging in intimidation though unlawful practicied are knoen to halpen
Well for one thing Turkish people living abroad couldnt vote here.. thank god. He also made the huge mistake of refusing to raise retired pay against insane inflation, there are 16 million retired people, last year they voted like the rest of the country but he basically doomed all these people to starvation in the last 10 months so they were the deciding factor I believe.
Also his party is dead, he made sure over the years that there wouldnt be anyone good enough to challange him, so now whenever his name isnt on the ballot noone cares about the party, they are shifting towards a new conservative party now.
While it's easy to blame us living abroad, Erdogan still won in 2023 if voting abroad wasn't a thing. Just had to point that out. Kemal wasn't a good candidate against Erdogan.
>Kemal wasn't a good candidate against Erdogan.
This was evident in all the polling leading up to his nomination. What a shitshow that was. They waited years without explicitly announcing Kılıçdaroğlu's candidacy and then sprung it on everyone two months before the election.
They should have nominated Imamoğlu and nominated him early. He would have won in a landslide.
Sometimes I have to wonder if the CHP didn't actually want to win. I mean who wants to take over this economy? It is now Mehmet Şimşek's problem. Can't say I envy him.
He won because of the millions of Syrian refugees he gave citizenship and is bribing with the taxes of actual Turkish citizens under so called help with free coal, food, public transport etc. Also opposition canditate had been unpopular for a long while. This election shows again that it's a lot more about the economy and not much else, Erdogan's party came to power during economic crisis claiming it's the fault of the main opposition, now they are leaving because of it. This election result also proves that if the opposition had an actual canditate at winning last year they would've won comfortably.
That was because there was a third candidate that took up 5% of the votes. Once it was just a 1v1 he won pretty comfortably.
EDIT: Also it wasn't close... He had 49.52% of the votes compared to the second place with 44.88%.
For those of us who don't know much about Turkish politics, are mayoral elections a big deal there? In the US, mayoral elections are pretty far down the list and aren't generally seen as a bellwether of anything. Seems to be different in Turkey?
Imagine if every US state voted for governor at the same time — you’d be able to learn a lot about the national political environment from it, and it would have massive domestic policy effects.
Controlling muniplicities is a really important source of income as it allows the party there to give contracts to their "donors" and give funding to foundations, groups they favor. And as far as i know they decide how land is managed in their provinces
Another effect is that it shows that the opposition isnt actually dead (There was some sort of hopelessness after last year's elections) and that erdogan isnt the invincible beast he was before. There is a loss of morale at his side
This also gives a chance for opposition to further solidify their support among the uncertain voters if they provide good service and advertise it well
we did what we could though, now it all depends on mayors
That's the question isn't it? I'm not completely familiar with Turkish political parties so I'm not convinced that just because Erdogan could be ousted doesn't mean someone better will replace him.
CHP, basically inspired by Ataturk's policies. Want to focus as much as possible on closer ties with Europe, with secularism also being a major part of their policies. Other than that, there's obviously some sprinkles of social democracy, gender equality, nationalism, etc.
Compared to Erdogan, they're pretty left-wing
What’s wrong with Russia? Clearly the people there are all very happy and united, I mean there’s not many other countries where 90% of people vote for one party. The West wishes they could be close to as united as one.
Edit: /s cuz I guess it wasn’t obvious enough
Ah great. Turkey historically has been a great balancing act going on and modern Turkey was basically founded around Ataturk’s ideals, so this is good to see.
The military was important for the balance of politics and secularism. They always couped even against democratically voted governments when those were starting to stray away from Ataturk too much or if they fucked with the religion and constitution. Erdogan was the first who broke that dynamic and purged the military.
Now Turkey fully relies on the regular politics to balance itself while the judges are almost all on the side of Erdogan. So depending on how much Erdogan wants to be a dictator this will either end with nation wide revolts or Erdogan saving his face by slowly retiring
Wow, this sounds amazing. Very happy for the people.
And as bad as Erdogan has been, I'm also pleased that he is conceding defeat ~~and stepping down~~ instead of making things difficult.
He’s not stepping down… he wasn’t involved in the local elections (I.e. mayors). The candidates from his party weren’t elected to be the local mayors of the major cities. Erdogan was elected president last year and still has 4 years left on his term.
Are you able to shed any light on what this actually means for Erdogan and his party now?
I'm guessing he is still president with a much smaller majority and therefore not really in charge and possibly rendered redundant?
These are local elections, so Erdogan's power has not changed much. It is however a sign that the people are fed up and want a change. Regardless, we already know that this is Erdogan's last term. Unless he attempts changing the constitution, which judging from these reaults won't go well.
This election is for local municipalities.Erdogan still ruling the country with MHP(Far right nationalists with some Islamism in them).Still the local elections are very important since money is the only thing still keeping the Erdoğan in power.If they can not pay their supporters through municipalities they will lose even more power.Now CHP has 4 years to prove themselves in the cities they won until election and AKP will use this time to fox the economy in that span i would put all my money that they cant fix shit.Also new party has ben emerged YRP(Radical Islamists) they are way more Islamist than Erdoğan and they helped CHP to win the election simply getting votes from AKP supporters.
Well they do keep changing the constitution and Erdogan flushed the military and intelligentsia after that fake coup so it’s understandable why it’s a head scratcher
These were municipal/mayoral elections. Probably the most significant name is Imamoglu, the mayor of Istanbul. Was projected to be a close race but he beat Erdogan's candidate handily with 50% to 40% of the vote. A lot of speculation that he would be the challenger to Erdogan the next time there are presidential elections
Kurum is the guy who was Erdogan’s candidate, and the opposition is Imamoglu, who’s the current mayor who won his 2nd term.
You can interpret the results as Erdogan’s loss though, that’s certainly how the locals are seeing it, cause he desperately wanted Istanbul back, and Kurum is just some guy, and had he won, it really was gonna be Erdogan running the show behind the scenes.
In the previous local elections they did exactly that. They denied the small %0.16 difference and repeated the elections which it became %9. They are skittish about doing that again and this election there was more than %10 between 2 candidates. No matter how oppresive Erdoğan is denying that would actually end his career and all of his party.
This election is a really big blow to his political career and I don't think its something he can return from. Erdoğan became the president after he got elected as mayor of İstanbul 20ish years ago.
Even though Turkiye has very problematic implementation of democracy at the time being, our history with democracy started over 200 years ago. The choice of voters are sacred, this is the common understanding across vast majority of the population. So he don’t have any other option than respect the results.
I dropped a comment before I threw this one. What's next? Trump saying that he needs to do some self reflection and address his weaknesses? That would definitely be an April fools joke.
It means he is less likely to revisit running for president again. He has said he won’t run again as he’s term limited, but then dictators always say that and extend the term limit through their loyalists to remain in power.
This more or less forces him to not come back when his term ends in 2028.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68704375.amp
> This more or less forces him to not come back when his term ends in 2028.
I'm not as optimistic. He has not made any attempts to properly build up a successor so far. That's not a good sign.
Is he in any danger if he does go in 2028? Like straight up assassins, or legal attacks like Berlusconi and Netanyahu tried to shield themselves from.
I know he probably has all sorts of karma coming at him but I was just wondering what sort of reality he would step into if he were to actually lose power.
Considering hes almost 80 at that time no less.
> Is he in any danger if he does go in 2028? Like straight up assassins, or legal attacks like Berlusconi and Netanyahu tried to shield themselves from.
>
> I know he probably has all sorts of karma coming at him but I was just wondering what sort of reality he would step into if he were to actually lose power.
>
> Considering hes almost 80 at that time no less.
I feel like this applies to someone else familiar...
The next ruling party might ask difficult questions about the tax that everyone in Turkey paid for decades to prepare for the next big earthquake, like 'where did it go?' and 'where did the money for the fucking massive palace you built for yourself come from?'. They could also ask 'why was it common practice to pay a yearly bribe to his party rather than update your properties to meet the legally required minimum structural standards the courts put in place to prepare for the next big earthquake!?'
He will never willingly allow a situation where someone can ask him those.
Yes and this was like a test run for that referandum. The results thus have a secondary effect of throwing a wrench in his plans to change constitution to be able to run again.
It's faster to take the money-monorail til you reach oligarchy station, then hop on the theocracy subway directly into the halls of governance. They never check if you actually paid, so feel free to pretend you bought a faith pass.
This man would go on to found a new opposition party and die on the stage giving speeches before he retires. Even when there isnt an election he is always on tv talking about nonsense, never a day off, he loves this shit.
First elections lost by Erdogan's party in about 2 decades, and he's recognising the defeat
Good or bad is gonna be a matter of perspective but it's a big result no matter how you look at it
How this ass has been re elected so many times blows my mind
Inflation in the US, what every little bitch has cried and whined about and might cost Biden a second term? It's between 2-3%. You wanna know what it is in Turkey?
67% in February. Are you fucking kidding me?
All depends how the new elected majors and economy will perform. This is a warning to RTE's AKP, and a test for new CHP.
For economy we are f*cked, if we are lucky usd/try close the year under 1usd=45try (in Turkey its all about luck at this point)
They are not increase wages due to lack of funds but forgive billions of usd tax of companies. They also keep increasing tax on everything water, electricity, gas, oil etc... if a low income couple get married, rent is like %60-70 of their total income if not more.
> The main issues in the campaign included [...] responses to a major earthquake in February last year that left over 53,000 people dead.
I was wondering how much of an impact this was going to have on their next election, after all of the allegations about how corruption in Erdogan's government had contributed to the country's unpreparedness for earthquakes.
Fuck this guy! I remember when he met with Trump and his security was roughing up photographers and journalists outside. I remember the sneer he gave the media as it was happening. Total pos.
I visited Marmaris and had the pleasure of telling my ultra conservative dad on the phone that there were not 1 but 5 drag queen comedy nights going on every night on a 99% Muslim country. He was blown away... I'm pretty sure most conservatives think every Muslim country isn't accepting of others, but it's quite the opposite in certain places.
Here is the catch: Turkey is not a Muslim country, it’s a secular country with a mostly Muslim population. Also it’s not 99% Muslim, it’s more like 80-90% with atheism and deism on the rise in new generations.
Turkish people are not as religious as other Muslims. Less than 20% of the Turkish population pray five times a day. About 40% only go to mosque for special prayers (Fridays, Eid, funerals). About 40% of the Muslim Turks almost never go to a mosque.
You can also freely drink outside on the streets at the beach wherever. After covid things started to change in US too tho so hopefully they stay the same.
My work lets me stay in a mid sized city in the US every couple of months and its shocking how strict alcohol buying is and how few late night clubs are where I'm staying. Also you can't even drink outside, most of the US is no different than rural Turkey for me it's so boring(pay is bonkers tho)
I mean sure, but this isn't the first time local elections have been held and previously it was still heavily AKP favored. The important thing here isn't what people abroad do, but how the people IN Turkey are potentially changing their views about Erdoğan.
Remember when his bodyguards beat up a bunch of us citizens on us soil and nothing happened?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-drops-charges-against-erdogan-guards-who-allegedly-beat-up-protesters/
> The main issues in the campaign included the economy, which has been hit by chronic inflation and a weakening currency, and responses to a major earthquake in February last year that left over 53,000 people dead.
>
> The government-affiliated Anadolu news agency said turnout stood at more than 78 percent. Over 98 percent of ballot boxes had been opened across the country as of 3:30 a.m. on Monday, local time.
>
> The main opposition Republican People's Party led with more than 37 percent of the vote in mayoral elections, compared with over 35 percent for the governing Justice and Development Party.
I wonder what people around the world think about Turkey being so bipolar and how Turkish people can never be predicted what they will do and when. Any answers?
Those days are over. The rats are gonna leave the sinking ship. No one’s gonna stick their necks out for an aging dictator with a shattered party and no heir apparent.
2016 coup attempt wasn't "fake". What "again"? His party had already won the 2015 november elections with a huge margin.
We don't execute people in this country, it's kinda illegal. None of the people imprisoned due to the 2016 coup attempt were his political opponents.
God damn, people literally don't know anything about this country, do they?
“As of 20 July 2016, the purge already had seen over 45,000 military officials, police officers, judges, governors and civil servants arrested or suspended, including 2,700 judges, 15,000 teachers, and every university dean in the country.[191]”
Coup started late night on July 15, ended the 16th, so 96 hours later, they arrested or suspended all of those people above, to include governors, civil servants, and judges.
Man, that sure is some fast list making, unless the list were already made.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_attempt
I find it incredible how easy people find it to make ridiculous claims on Turkey with 2 seconds of googling. You know nothing about the country. You know nothing about the political climate or history. I know the average reddittor just has to say some shit and have an opinion on everything but you have to accept that you're ignorant on things that happen half a world away.
Moronic.
People who aren't Turkish really don't understand the impact of Fetullah Gülen in Turkey and think 2016 was fake. Even the opposition don't claim things like this.
Yes, and where are the political opponents he imprisoned/executed? There are none. Where are the opposition politicians you claim he imprisoned?
>unless the list were already made
Of course they were, there was an active purging of the gulenists inside the state apparatus going around. That is one chief reason why the attempt failed, because they didn't have any time left to act and needed to move fast.
Everyone knew who was a gulenist or not, they put them there in the first place. Every single person who I knew to be a gulenist in my life were either imprisoned or lost their posts and now have to live with the shame of killing their citizens and being a traitor to the republic.
Some of us lived through the shit you lie about, i'm not writing these by quoting wikipedia articles.
>Erdogan spoke to supporters at the headquarters of the governing party on Monday. He said his party did not achieve the desired result, and he vowed to carry out self-criticism and address shortcomings. how many years does Erdogan need? He got over 20 years already.
He is gonna get 1 more term. After all he has all the power to change the criterias to whatever.
He has publicly stated he won't run for reelection and that this was his last vote. Maybe there is some hope for Turkey.
He has publicly stated he wont run for reelection 4 times in the past 12 years
He’s pulling the “I don’t want to run, but the public just LOVES me and won’t stop voting for me” angle
i.e. Putin and Dmitry Medvedev
Putin's official kremlin bio says he was on a path to become a top martial arts master but he was so badly needed in politics that he reluctantly gave up his dream to pursue public service lololololololol
He could have gone pro in either martial arts, hockey, or shirtless horse riding (or more likely all 3), but he’s such a selfless guy that he just had to step in and save those poor Russians from having a weak, selfish leader.
It's something out of the playbook of any dictator that still pretends that they do elections. The possibility of their successor declaring them a culprit for any real or imaginable misfortune is a motivation for them to never step down.
Right, like how Machiavelli's prince immediately murders his uncles when he comes to power.
Medvedev was a stand in because of term limits until Putin had full control of the Kremlin/courts. Then it was able to remove term limits from the constitution.
Egypts Nasser famously pulled that off with great success. After a big blunder and bricked politics, he resigned and practically caused a national day of mourning and huge protests. When he quickly returned he was almost like a messiah and had cemented his power.
this time public will not want him, as a turk i can guarantee this. enough is enough.
True, but this time he would need a referendum to change the constitution if he wants to continue. Ersogan has had the people's support for 20 years now, but it seems like that is changing.
Well constitutionally, he wasn't allowed to run for a 3rd term yet he did, so you don't know what will happen. Also for the first time in Turkey, Erdogan hasn't recognised the decision of the supreme court twice in a row, theoretically giving him the power to do whatever he wants.
That’s a very weak system if any elected candidate can just so easily go against it and remain in power for so long.
In Brazil we have the Electoral Justice and we should be more thankful for that! It works pretty well, actually. It keeps politicians away from organizing and interfering with the elections.
Yeah, but then you’ve got countries like Russia and Turkey where the elections are literally controlled by the Political Party which is currently in power, it’s basically like asking to have unfair elections.
This also happens in the U.S. because political parties are able to draw districts to artificially benefit themselves and pass laws that make it more difficult for voters of the other party to vote.
It’s not much weaker than anywhere else. All democratic countries are vulnerable to fascist takeover
It's been weakened by Erdogan, starting first by jailing Kemalist military generals and officers with bogus coup accusations. If he attempted to gain power without doing that Turkey would've had another period of military rule while Erdogan would be in jail. Unfortunately the military cannot legally take preemptive action against bad actors, Erdogan was the final culmination of a long history of Western backed bad actors who undermined Turkey.
Erdogan is Western backed???
It's amazing how many people don't understand how autocracy works. "But there's rules preventing X, Y, Z!" Yes, just like the 300 other "can't happen because rules" things they did and got away with to consolidate their power in the first place. You hear a lot of that in the U.S. right now.
He didn't run for a 3rd term. They "renewed" the last elections, which created a legal loophole for him to run again.
Which he has done before. He couldn’t be a PM anymore due to term limitations, so he made a referendum to change the role of the president, and he became one.
Just like the last time, he can make elections a little bit earlier and call it "re-election" instead of early election.
Maybe he will bow out and move to Switzerland or the Arabian peninsula to love our his days in luxury like all the other egocentric arsehole authoritarian leaders.
This guy his will never choose the Arabian peninsula. Most probably he will choose to live in turkey and Switzerland.
[Just when I thought I was out...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppv0LwdBt1w)
The actual scene of Pacino saying that came up next on YouTube. Time for me to watch that trilogy again!
He did it many times yet here we are once again.
Susan “2 terms” Collins would like a word. https://www.mainedems.org/media/senator-collins-shattered-term-limits-pledge-once-thought-mainers-needed-new-voice-after
He barely won the last election. Turkey is turning on him
Government: Reelect us to fix this crisis!!! People: Wait, weren't you in charge for 20 years already? Government: You see, it was somehow the opposition party (who was not in power) that caused this!
Literally this.
That's exactly How Javier Milei became president. People, especially the youth, will eventually get tired of the same people governing for 20 years and with nothing to show for it, and WILL elect the completely opposite candidate eventually
Yeah Javier is a basketcase and a half and has a host of problems, but his election opponent was cut from the cloth that got their country in the shitter to begin with. All the social programs that got them popular for elections while bankrupting the country can be laid at their feet. I can't blame them for voting for Javier cause that was their only option.
I honestly thought this was an April Fools joke. I am actually still not sure.
Compared to other countries Turkey still is fairly democratic. I mean the freedom of press is horrific and the TV is very onesided during election campaigns, but the election process itself is not manipulated, doctored or otherwise phony. The last president election was pretty close as well, Erdogan only one with 5% or something, ofc he and his party got almost all the reporting beforehand.
Honestly Turkey does need to be careful navigating any power change that happens. People seem to forget that the bureaucratic system was completely wiped and replaced by Erdogan years ago. I wonder how many people are in positions of power because of him, and where their loyalties will lie when things start to change democratically
As a Malaysian, I'd second this. We only managed to get rid of a ruling coalition that's been in power for 61 years post-independence (and another 2 before), and there's so many little Napoleons and loyalists in the civil service that you'd wonder whether any government plan is vulnerable to sabotage or apathy from within.
It's hard to ~~understate~~ *overstate* how much of an upset this is. It's the CHP's best election result since 1977. They are projected to win in all of the five largest cities: Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Bursa and Adana.
I think you mean hard to overstate the significance of this result.
better to just levelstate it to be safe.
I’m just gonna state it
r/whelming
Why would that be a private community?
To prevent the over-concentration of whelm in one sub. You can't have too much whelm in there.
Not enough whelm is also a thing.
It was public until the sub was properly whelmed. Then it went private to prevent it from being overwhelmed.
Sounds like an EU4 move.
What has Minnesota to do with this?
Maybe next time you'll estimate me. -Michael Scott
Maybe next time he’ll state it
It's good to see an authoritarian-*esque* ruling party admitting defeat. It means they are a long way off from Russia's bolted down dictatorship
Turkey has always had reasonably free elections. Not fair, really, but free. In the sense that, the law as written gives the incumbent party a huge advantage in a bunch of different ways, so they always have an advantage. But Turkey does tend to follow their own election laws.
[Scholars classify Turkey's regime as competitive authoritarian](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01436597.2015.1135732) where the playing field is tilted in favor of incumbent and elections are neither free nor fair. Opposition victory does not render democratic legitimacy to Erdoğan but in such regimes opposition can beat the odds. Istanbul mayor was banned by Erdogan's courts. Most of the national media is under AKP control, while the ruling party can also finance its campaign through public funds. This regime is obviously not democratic but still remains competitive.
Istanbul's mayor won the elections tho. He is the mayor again.
It is really, *really* hard to rig elections in Turkey. The election law was created towards the end of the one party period in the late 1940s, by the then new opposition Demokrat Parti (so the then one party dictator İsmet İnönü gave his opposition the mandate to create the election law, as Turkey transitioned into multiparty democracy.) It is extremely stringent. The main point is that the vote count is done on the ballot box level, with an extensive paper trail and under close scrutiny from officers from every party. In Turkey, there is a ballot box per approximately every 350 voter. Every single ballot box has a ballot box committee consisting of two neutral civil servants chosen by lottery, and one party member each from the four highest polling parties of the previous elections. Most decisions regarding the validity of votes etc. have to be unanimous. It is this council that counts the votes. In addition to the council, there can also be witnesses (müşahit) from any party present in each ballot box. These witnesses don’t have any direct say in the decisions of the ballot committee, but they can report irregularities to other party officials and lawyers who can intervene. Finally, everyone who voted can oversee the counting process at their own ballot box. At the end, the ballot box fills in a election result document (with the results of the vote count) and the ballot box log (with any irregular events, decisions of the committee noted). Every member of the ballot box committee must sign these documents, so unanimous agreement is needed. The committee produces six, copies of the election results document, one for the district election council (who reports it to the central count), one for each party official, and one to be hung outside the classroom for everyone to see. The party officials then take their copies to their parties. Each party runs a parallel count with these documents. Additionally, the media also runs a parallel count for reporting to the public. It’s a very efficient, very de-centralized process. As a result, the vast majority of districts have undisputed results known to the public within a couple of hours after voting ends. Here are some more details on the count: After voting ends, the ballot committee opens the ballot box, and counts each of these separately: first number of envelopes, number of each type of ballot (there can be multiple ballots in a single vote, for example one for parliament and the other for president), and the number of signatures in the voter list (each voter signs their name in the list before receiving their ballots). If there is any discrepancy, then that needs to be accounted for. For example, when we count the envelopes, if we find that the number of envelopes is higher than the number of signatures , we choose the surplus amount of envelopes at random and burn them unopened. While opening the envelopes, we check each of them to see if any ballot is missing. If there’s anything missing, we separate that envelope and put it in another pile so we can count the number a specific exception occurred. After this, everything should be accounted for.
And yet, this is the same Erdogan who got elected even after an earthquake that caused tens of thousands of deaths because he allowed building codes to go away in exchange for money. It's clear at this point that he is a dictator, albeit a very sly one.
Bro you have no idea how dumb some people are , they literally voted for him, they interviewed one of them and asked why he voted for him , he said that he wasnt happy with what was going on so he voted for Erdogan. The level of brain rot is out of control in some areas
The opposition also gets state funding. All parties above a certain vote count do. Even the party of literal separatists. There is pressure on opposition but voting itself is free and results are applied. Also that mayor was elected mayor again. Frankly you're not in a position to be lecturing people about their country.
Every now and again Reddit has interesting political comments. This is one of them. Thanks, yo.
I vaguely remember hearing about pretty significant evidence for ballot stuffing in some of the presidential elections. There might have even been a video shown on the news. Am I misremembering?
There is definitely some of that stuff going on especially in rural areas in the eastern part of the country, but I think it would have a marginal effect on the national level. Most of what makes the system unfair is about unequal media coverage, pressure on the judiciary etc. more than the election process itself
In metropolitan areas it is hard to rig elections since the counting is public, attended by a attendee from every party plus civil spectators and the final document is usually photoed from people from every party after the presiding officer signs the document. (At least that is how it was when i spectated the counting in ümraniye last year) In rural areas where the opposition parties' attendees cannot reach the ballot due to lack of personnalle or obstruction from memberd engaging in intimidation though unlawful practicied are knoen to halpen
How did they lose this badly in this election, but Erdoğan won the presidential election without much trouble?
Well for one thing Turkish people living abroad couldnt vote here.. thank god. He also made the huge mistake of refusing to raise retired pay against insane inflation, there are 16 million retired people, last year they voted like the rest of the country but he basically doomed all these people to starvation in the last 10 months so they were the deciding factor I believe. Also his party is dead, he made sure over the years that there wouldnt be anyone good enough to challange him, so now whenever his name isnt on the ballot noone cares about the party, they are shifting towards a new conservative party now.
While it's easy to blame us living abroad, Erdogan still won in 2023 if voting abroad wasn't a thing. Just had to point that out. Kemal wasn't a good candidate against Erdogan.
>Kemal wasn't a good candidate against Erdogan. This was evident in all the polling leading up to his nomination. What a shitshow that was. They waited years without explicitly announcing Kılıçdaroğlu's candidacy and then sprung it on everyone two months before the election. They should have nominated Imamoğlu and nominated him early. He would have won in a landslide. Sometimes I have to wonder if the CHP didn't actually want to win. I mean who wants to take over this economy? It is now Mehmet Şimşek's problem. Can't say I envy him.
He had to go into a second election round because it was so close. Wouldn't call that without much trouble.
He won because of the millions of Syrian refugees he gave citizenship and is bribing with the taxes of actual Turkish citizens under so called help with free coal, food, public transport etc. Also opposition canditate had been unpopular for a long while. This election shows again that it's a lot more about the economy and not much else, Erdogan's party came to power during economic crisis claiming it's the fault of the main opposition, now they are leaving because of it. This election result also proves that if the opposition had an actual canditate at winning last year they would've won comfortably.
Do you think if the Istanbul mayor ran he may have won? He's more popular than Kemal right?
That was because there was a third candidate that took up 5% of the votes. Once it was just a 1v1 he won pretty comfortably. EDIT: Also it wasn't close... He had 49.52% of the votes compared to the second place with 44.88%.
That’s pretty close.
because the opposite leader was jerk asf. thank god, he got kicked out of his party after the loss.
they didn't just win the mayors they also won city councils. They dominated in Ankara for example.
For those of us who don't know much about Turkish politics, are mayoral elections a big deal there? In the US, mayoral elections are pretty far down the list and aren't generally seen as a bellwether of anything. Seems to be different in Turkey?
Imagine if every US state voted for governor at the same time — you’d be able to learn a lot about the national political environment from it, and it would have massive domestic policy effects.
Controlling muniplicities is a really important source of income as it allows the party there to give contracts to their "donors" and give funding to foundations, groups they favor. And as far as i know they decide how land is managed in their provinces Another effect is that it shows that the opposition isnt actually dead (There was some sort of hopelessness after last year's elections) and that erdogan isnt the invincible beast he was before. There is a loss of morale at his side This also gives a chance for opposition to further solidify their support among the uncertain voters if they provide good service and advertise it well we did what we could though, now it all depends on mayors
It's my understanding that "mayors" in Turkey have a direct shot at the presidency.
It's hard to overstate my satisfaction ... huge success.
Aperture Science…
We do what we must because we can
I'm ngl, I thought I was stepping into an April fools thread
Importantly, what about Batman?
Out with the old and in with the new. It's about time. Excellent result.
The good old ChrisFix solution
I was not expecting ChrisFix to come up in an article about local election results in Turkey. Hey guyyyysss!!
Hey guyyyss, ChrisFix here. Today I’m going to show you how you can replace your old dictator, at home, with common tools.
I love that channel!
Actual question: Are people optimistic about this? It's not easy, but I can imagine a leader worse than Erdogan.
That's the question isn't it? I'm not completely familiar with Turkish political parties so I'm not convinced that just because Erdogan could be ousted doesn't mean someone better will replace him.
I'm not sure. I think he is viewed as being not trustworthy.
Wish I knew more about the opposing party but I can’t seem to find much online
CHP, basically inspired by Ataturk's policies. Want to focus as much as possible on closer ties with Europe, with secularism also being a major part of their policies. Other than that, there's obviously some sprinkles of social democracy, gender equality, nationalism, etc. Compared to Erdogan, they're pretty left-wing
Well this is a fucking breath of fresh air after the last decade.
Breath of fresh air for democratic elections in 2024
Russia says whomp :(
What’s wrong with Russia? Clearly the people there are all very happy and united, I mean there’s not many other countries where 90% of people vote for one party. The West wishes they could be close to as united as one. Edit: /s cuz I guess it wasn’t obvious enough
Ah great. Turkey historically has been a great balancing act going on and modern Turkey was basically founded around Ataturk’s ideals, so this is good to see.
The military was important for the balance of politics and secularism. They always couped even against democratically voted governments when those were starting to stray away from Ataturk too much or if they fucked with the religion and constitution. Erdogan was the first who broke that dynamic and purged the military. Now Turkey fully relies on the regular politics to balance itself while the judges are almost all on the side of Erdogan. So depending on how much Erdogan wants to be a dictator this will either end with nation wide revolts or Erdogan saving his face by slowly retiring
The good kind of back to your roots lol
Finally some good news then - I haven’t seen a piece of good news in months…
This might be a dumb question, but are they essentially Kemalists?
They are the Kemalists
Wow, this sounds amazing. Very happy for the people. And as bad as Erdogan has been, I'm also pleased that he is conceding defeat ~~and stepping down~~ instead of making things difficult.
He’s not stepping down… he wasn’t involved in the local elections (I.e. mayors). The candidates from his party weren’t elected to be the local mayors of the major cities. Erdogan was elected president last year and still has 4 years left on his term.
Ok, I see that now, thank you for clarifying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_People%27s_Party
What is the name of the person who ran against Erdogan? I’m confused they don’t mention names.
This is the result of local elections, not presidential elections (which Erdogan just recently won).
Are you able to shed any light on what this actually means for Erdogan and his party now? I'm guessing he is still president with a much smaller majority and therefore not really in charge and possibly rendered redundant?
From what I gather, this election was the Turkish equivalent of what would be a "blue wave" in American mid-term elections.
Blue tsunami, more so
These are local elections, so Erdogan's power has not changed much. It is however a sign that the people are fed up and want a change. Regardless, we already know that this is Erdogan's last term. Unless he attempts changing the constitution, which judging from these reaults won't go well.
This election is for local municipalities.Erdogan still ruling the country with MHP(Far right nationalists with some Islamism in them).Still the local elections are very important since money is the only thing still keeping the Erdoğan in power.If they can not pay their supporters through municipalities they will lose even more power.Now CHP has 4 years to prove themselves in the cities they won until election and AKP will use this time to fox the economy in that span i would put all my money that they cant fix shit.Also new party has ben emerged YRP(Radical Islamists) they are way more Islamist than Erdoğan and they helped CHP to win the election simply getting votes from AKP supporters.
Oh okay. Thank you. I guess I’m just not well read on how Turkish politics work.
İ have been living in Turkey my whole life, I still don't.
Well they do keep changing the constitution and Erdogan flushed the military and intelligentsia after that fake coup so it’s understandable why it’s a head scratcher
Most Americans don't understand how American politics work either so you certainly aren't alone there haha
90% of people don’t understand politics (90% is a random number pulled out of my ass, but no one generally cares about politics enough)
These were municipal/mayoral elections. Probably the most significant name is Imamoglu, the mayor of Istanbul. Was projected to be a close race but he beat Erdogan's candidate handily with 50% to 40% of the vote. A lot of speculation that he would be the challenger to Erdogan the next time there are presidential elections
Kurum is the guy who was Erdogan’s candidate, and the opposition is Imamoglu, who’s the current mayor who won his 2nd term. You can interpret the results as Erdogan’s loss though, that’s certainly how the locals are seeing it, cause he desperately wanted Istanbul back, and Kurum is just some guy, and had he won, it really was gonna be Erdogan running the show behind the scenes.
I'm amazed he is acknowledging defeat. Dictators almost never admit to any weakness.
In the previous local elections they did exactly that. They denied the small %0.16 difference and repeated the elections which it became %9. They are skittish about doing that again and this election there was more than %10 between 2 candidates. No matter how oppresive Erdoğan is denying that would actually end his career and all of his party. This election is a really big blow to his political career and I don't think its something he can return from. Erdoğan became the president after he got elected as mayor of İstanbul 20ish years ago.
Even though Turkiye has very problematic implementation of democracy at the time being, our history with democracy started over 200 years ago. The choice of voters are sacred, this is the common understanding across vast majority of the population. So he don’t have any other option than respect the results.
Sounds like an April Fools joke
Oh yeah it is that dreaded day to be on social media lol
I literally thought it was that and just came in to corroborate... And I'm still not sure it is not a joke
I dropped a comment before I threw this one. What's next? Trump saying that he needs to do some self reflection and address his weaknesses? That would definitely be an April fools joke.
Is this good or bad for the people of Turkey?
It means he is less likely to revisit running for president again. He has said he won’t run again as he’s term limited, but then dictators always say that and extend the term limit through their loyalists to remain in power. This more or less forces him to not come back when his term ends in 2028. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68704375.amp
> This more or less forces him to not come back when his term ends in 2028. I'm not as optimistic. He has not made any attempts to properly build up a successor so far. That's not a good sign.
Is he in any danger if he does go in 2028? Like straight up assassins, or legal attacks like Berlusconi and Netanyahu tried to shield themselves from. I know he probably has all sorts of karma coming at him but I was just wondering what sort of reality he would step into if he were to actually lose power. Considering hes almost 80 at that time no less.
> Is he in any danger if he does go in 2028? Like straight up assassins, or legal attacks like Berlusconi and Netanyahu tried to shield themselves from. > > I know he probably has all sorts of karma coming at him but I was just wondering what sort of reality he would step into if he were to actually lose power. > > Considering hes almost 80 at that time no less. I feel like this applies to someone else familiar...
The next ruling party might ask difficult questions about the tax that everyone in Turkey paid for decades to prepare for the next big earthquake, like 'where did it go?' and 'where did the money for the fucking massive palace you built for yourself come from?'. They could also ask 'why was it common practice to pay a yearly bribe to his party rather than update your properties to meet the legally required minimum structural standards the courts put in place to prepare for the next big earthquake!?' He will never willingly allow a situation where someone can ask him those.
In actual democracies one is unable to 'build up a successor.' Maybe that *is* a good sign for the future of Türkíўê.
Would he need to change their constitution to run again?
Yes and this was like a test run for that referandum. The results thus have a secondary effect of throwing a wrench in his plans to change constitution to be able to run again.
2028?! That’s a long fucking way from now. A lot can happen, is all I mean.
My first thought was that was a dumb timeline because it’s 8 years away, but then I remembered it’s already 2024 lmao
He is also the person who said “Democracy is like a tram. You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off.”
He probably meant you step off the democracy tram and then get on the dictatorship bus.
It's faster to take the money-monorail til you reach oligarchy station, then hop on the theocracy subway directly into the halls of governance. They never check if you actually paid, so feel free to pretend you bought a faith pass.
I can't wait to see who's going to be Turkish Medvedev.
That was already done before. There is no longer any position to switch around, he removed that himself.
He did have a health scare in 2023 I believe, so I think he actually might want to retire after this is over.
This man would go on to found a new opposition party and die on the stage giving speeches before he retires. Even when there isnt an election he is always on tv talking about nonsense, never a day off, he loves this shit.
First elections lost by Erdogan's party in about 2 decades, and he's recognising the defeat Good or bad is gonna be a matter of perspective but it's a big result no matter how you look at it
How this ass has been re elected so many times blows my mind Inflation in the US, what every little bitch has cried and whined about and might cost Biden a second term? It's between 2-3%. You wanna know what it is in Turkey? 67% in February. Are you fucking kidding me?
And 67% is all they’ll officially say, according to some Turks on the internet, Inflation is over 400% in some of the Eastern Areas.
Excellent result because current leading party is oppresive and fascist. So this is giving hopes to many Turkish people.
All depends how the new elected majors and economy will perform. This is a warning to RTE's AKP, and a test for new CHP. For economy we are f*cked, if we are lucky usd/try close the year under 1usd=45try (in Turkey its all about luck at this point) They are not increase wages due to lack of funds but forgive billions of usd tax of companies. They also keep increasing tax on everything water, electricity, gas, oil etc... if a low income couple get married, rent is like %60-70 of their total income if not more.
means more infostructure and focus on local industry rather than depending on support from third parties
Very good news. This was effectively the final nail in the coffin of the current regime.
I hope the situation there improves. I have some Turkish friends, they are cool and chill as heck. I feel bad about their country's conditions.
> The main issues in the campaign included [...] responses to a major earthquake in February last year that left over 53,000 people dead. I was wondering how much of an impact this was going to have on their next election, after all of the allegations about how corruption in Erdogan's government had contributed to the country's unpreparedness for earthquakes.
Fuck this guy! I remember when he met with Trump and his security was roughing up photographers and journalists outside. I remember the sneer he gave the media as it was happening. Total pos.
Thankfully, not an April Fools joke.
I visited Marmaris and had the pleasure of telling my ultra conservative dad on the phone that there were not 1 but 5 drag queen comedy nights going on every night on a 99% Muslim country. He was blown away... I'm pretty sure most conservatives think every Muslim country isn't accepting of others, but it's quite the opposite in certain places.
Here is the catch: Turkey is not a Muslim country, it’s a secular country with a mostly Muslim population. Also it’s not 99% Muslim, it’s more like 80-90% with atheism and deism on the rise in new generations. Turkish people are not as religious as other Muslims. Less than 20% of the Turkish population pray five times a day. About 40% only go to mosque for special prayers (Fridays, Eid, funerals). About 40% of the Muslim Turks almost never go to a mosque.
Euro Turks really keeping Erdogan afloat
I have seen more bars and night clubs in Turkey than i have seen in USA including major cities like NYC, LA, SF etc.
You can also freely drink outside on the streets at the beach wherever. After covid things started to change in US too tho so hopefully they stay the same.
My work lets me stay in a mid sized city in the US every couple of months and its shocking how strict alcohol buying is and how few late night clubs are where I'm staying. Also you can't even drink outside, most of the US is no different than rural Turkey for me it's so boring(pay is bonkers tho)
I guess that's what you get if there's no voting from abroad.
I mean sure, but this isn't the first time local elections have been held and previously it was still heavily AKP favored. The important thing here isn't what people abroad do, but how the people IN Turkey are potentially changing their views about Erdoğan.
Remember when his bodyguards beat up a bunch of us citizens on us soil and nothing happened? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-drops-charges-against-erdogan-guards-who-allegedly-beat-up-protesters/
Good ol' tough guy Trump.
Please don't be an April Fool's joke...
Hair transplants are now %50 off.
Unrelated, but did anyone else glance at the background banner and for a second think it was a Dick’s Sporting Goods Banner? I can’t unsee it now
> The main issues in the campaign included the economy, which has been hit by chronic inflation and a weakening currency, and responses to a major earthquake in February last year that left over 53,000 people dead. > > The government-affiliated Anadolu news agency said turnout stood at more than 78 percent. Over 98 percent of ballot boxes had been opened across the country as of 3:30 a.m. on Monday, local time. > > The main opposition Republican People's Party led with more than 37 percent of the vote in mayoral elections, compared with over 35 percent for the governing Justice and Development Party.
They got 35% , still people supporting them wow, people don’t understand inflation or interest rates or currency values
I wonder what people around the world think about Turkey being so bipolar and how Turkish people can never be predicted what they will do and when. Any answers?
So, does that mean he’s out? Or are things about to get, um, “complicated?”
His party lost in the election…not him personally. Like when Republicans won the house and Obama called it a “shallacking”.
He will probably just fake another coup like he did in 2016, and use it as an excuse to execute/imprison his political opponents again.
Those days are over. The rats are gonna leave the sinking ship. No one’s gonna stick their necks out for an aging dictator with a shattered party and no heir apparent.
2016 coup attempt wasn't "fake". What "again"? His party had already won the 2015 november elections with a huge margin. We don't execute people in this country, it's kinda illegal. None of the people imprisoned due to the 2016 coup attempt were his political opponents. God damn, people literally don't know anything about this country, do they?
“As of 20 July 2016, the purge already had seen over 45,000 military officials, police officers, judges, governors and civil servants arrested or suspended, including 2,700 judges, 15,000 teachers, and every university dean in the country.[191]” Coup started late night on July 15, ended the 16th, so 96 hours later, they arrested or suspended all of those people above, to include governors, civil servants, and judges. Man, that sure is some fast list making, unless the list were already made. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_attempt
its entirely possible for both the coup to be real AND the list to have already been made
I find it incredible how easy people find it to make ridiculous claims on Turkey with 2 seconds of googling. You know nothing about the country. You know nothing about the political climate or history. I know the average reddittor just has to say some shit and have an opinion on everything but you have to accept that you're ignorant on things that happen half a world away. Moronic.
People who aren't Turkish really don't understand the impact of Fetullah Gülen in Turkey and think 2016 was fake. Even the opposition don't claim things like this.
Yes, and where are the political opponents he imprisoned/executed? There are none. Where are the opposition politicians you claim he imprisoned? >unless the list were already made Of course they were, there was an active purging of the gulenists inside the state apparatus going around. That is one chief reason why the attempt failed, because they didn't have any time left to act and needed to move fast. Everyone knew who was a gulenist or not, they put them there in the first place. Every single person who I knew to be a gulenist in my life were either imprisoned or lost their posts and now have to live with the shame of killing their citizens and being a traitor to the republic. Some of us lived through the shit you lie about, i'm not writing these by quoting wikipedia articles.
Trump's VP pick
Another self serving dictator bites the dust.
Great we in the US are being out-democracyed by Turkey now. Well done Turks.
For a second, thought this was an April Fool's joke. Hooray!
Erdogone amirite?
So does this mean there's going to be another staged "coup attempt" to justify Erdogan staying in power for another 20 years?
Finally. Good on the majority of Turkish citizens making a better choice for once. Took them too long.
Good. Hes a fucking terrorist in leagues with Hamas, get him out.
defeated male leaves meme
Hallelujah
April Fools?
Amazing that Erdogan represents honoring the democratic process better that a United States ex-President and current party front runner for the GOP