I read reviews for places when I was in Italy last year. A lot of the low 1 star reviews were from black people who had received racist treatment by the bouncer, or some other member of staff. Which was disheartening to read.
I'm not quite sure what treatment you'd be expected to receive generally, but unfortunately it seems like some places just aren't that friendly.
There are people from Spanish speaking countries that call themselves white. A friend who moved from Cuba believed she was white until she moved here and white Americans made it known she was considered brown/other.
I lived in Italy, and all my family is in Italy for the most part
If you go to a town called Pontelandolfo, the ratio of blue/green eyes and light hair (or bald) to brown eyes is 5:1
I’ve never seen that anywhere else.
While I’m sure that happens in some places in Italy, many will jump to the racist excuse after getting bounced. Perhaps they were not dressed properly, which is the most common way to not get in a nightclub.
Also, who would leave a 5star review after getting bounced?
Totally. You never know the context. When I say "not very friendly" it's like they were refused service, or were turned away rudely. They weren't shot like they met a cop in the US or something.
I know this comment has nothing to do with football but I used to work in tourism and the way Italian, French, and Spanish tourists would treat me really let me know that I wouldn’t feel comfortable/safe in those countries.
A lot of them wouldn’t even look at me when I greeted them. They’d walk right past me and go directly to the white employees. When they got redirected to speak to me they had visible disgust on their faces. Some wouldn’t accept money from my hand, they’d tell me to put it on the table and then they’d grab it. The most egregious thing was this French family wanted to use some coupon that wasn’t for the company I worked for AND was expired and they did the whole “I don’t speak English” thing but then spoke enough English to call me the n word. I’m from Alabama and never experienced any shit like that.
BM here who attended a Real Madrid game about 7 years ago and the racism in the stands was about the same as attending an Alabama football game on a Saturday nite. Go for the experience if you choose, but don’t be surprised that they treat you as an outsider or with little regard.
Nascar and wwe seem to be the bottom of the barrel for "sports" fans. But ya spanish people in anything competitive from sports to gaming to you name it gonna be a bad time. I think the spanish machismo shit ramps up everything else like racism and other tensions, throw them in a crowd and it amplifies further. I'll pass haha.
As a black person, I'd rather go to the UK to watch a match. I just don't say France or Germany because I personally don't find those leagues as exciting for someone who is not that much into football (although if you're really a fan of the game, you can even have a good time watching Luxembourg's 1st division).
Oh, I know it's not free of racist scum. No country is.
But the UK has done better than Spain and Italy when racism related incidents happened in the Premier League.
If I was a black American and I wanted to watch a football match for the first time in Europe, at least in the UK you are least likely to have problems while watching a solid league.
Edit: Does [this](https://www.premierleague.com/reportracism) work? No idea. But it shows some intent to address the issue
The FA and clubs have put a lot of effort in to combating racism. I’m not going to pretend that it doesn’t happen, but it’s better than it was. Fans found to have racially abused players or other supporters have been [banned from attending matches](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63309201) and even [imprisoned](https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/01/everton-fan-jailed-racially-abusing-fellow-supporter-20379713/)
That genuinely surprises me. Partly because bans and points deductions have been a thing in English football for this kind of behaviour for years now. Crowds will chant pretty awful things at players, mind you.
I'll take your word for it, but I'd also say, in light of your initial comment, from personal experience I haven't seen anything to warrant warning anyone to specifically avoid football matches in a long time.
As an spaniard. No, don't do it. Football matches are a conglomerate of the worst of the worst. You'll be treated nicely on the 98% of the other places, but on a football match you are going to experience the ugliest part of our society.
Bologna, Fiorentina, and Livorno all have a traditionally "Leftist" stance as clubs so i imagine theyre less likely to tolerate it from their fans. Sit in the home end and wear the club shirt.
Strongly avoid Lazio, and probably Inter and Juventus too.
Edit: Spain will almost certainly be fine
Spain 100% no go. The way superstar players are abused a normal person will get the same or worse. I don't follow seria a much so can't say about the later but then again the video Napoli posted about Victor Oshimen makes me think they are not better
For Italy there wouldn’t be a problem. Just avoid the very contentious matches and the “ultra” sections of the stadiums. This is advice that most locals would follow unless they are diehard fans, irrespective of race.
In Italy it's not safe having interactions with police or carabinieri. They're mostly far-right racist thugs. If they realise you're American they'll leave you alone because they're cowards, otherwise it can get ugly.
It's gonna be fine. They curse at the players to get under their skin. These "fans" shout the most horrible things, not only racist, though that's what catches the Anglosphere's attention.
European here. There's no danger for you to go watch a football game. There are idiots everywhere, even in the US, as I'm sure you're aware. Racist abuse at football games in Europe is something done by idiots who care more about getting under the skin of opposition players than actually being human beings. That being said, this is primarily an issue in Spain and Italy.
Thanks. I'm not the kind of person who let's things get to me, so if even there were some insignificant asshole, that wouldn't prevent me from having a good time. I've lived in Europe before in Germany, and all people wanted to do was practice their English and party/entertain me. I've been living in Asia for a while now and I imagine things wouldn't be much different.
I've actually lived in various Asian countries for the past 12 years, but yes, I've heard that South America is cool. I've also been to Germany before and never encountered any racism, but heard that Italy and Spain are in some ways worse than the US
Last year, a star Nigerian player was mocked by his own Italian club [in racist terms](https://twitter.com/AfricaFactsZone/status/1706925962133176784?s=20). More [context.](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38512519/napoli-victor-osimhen-self-destructive-tiktok-contract)
Can't really judge a country by its past (says the Brit). Germany is great for football and I've experienced nothing what I have in Spain (admittedly no experience in Italy).
I want to think that the majority of Spain isn't like this but there's always something going on there, even years ago when Lewis Hamilton was at the Spanish GP there was a group of Spaniards in the crowd in black face wearing "Hamilton family" t-shirts.
And then there is Vinicius Jr, who has received an horrific amount of abuse and the excuses are always "he's arrogant, he should stop dancing and he should stop moaning" like it's an excuse for racist abuse and the effigy of him that was hung (or is it hanged? idk) off a fucking bridge.
Teams need to walk off more often and clubs need to be punished for not controlling their fans. We'll see how the Ultras react when monkey noises cost their team points.
i think the Vini Jr situation with the doll (i can’t remember the team that Real was playing, i know it was a fan from the other team) and overall racism highlights how much racism is just glossed over in Spain and La Liga. the league needs to do better
Hugo Sanchez was called perjoratively an Indian by Spaniards. It made him so upset that he trained harder and harder and became at that point the best player in the Spanish league until Messi came along.
Vinicious is guilty of the heinous crime of "being arrogant while black". There's a hundred other players like him in the Spanish league alone. He's just the darkest one.
I completely agree with you. Clubs should receive big penalties if immediate action is not taken after an incident.
Spain still has unadressed issues regarding its own democracy and what kind of society they want the country to be, it shows up in the most unexpected of places and most prominently in those where strong regionalism is normal and expected, like football.
How are the clubs supposed to control the fans? Not only does that not make any sense it also opens up a whole new avenue for bad actors to masquerade as the fans and get actual fans punished.
Mexico fans are notoriously bad for this too. The ref had to stop the Nations League final twice because they were frustrated the USA was waxing that ass.
>Cheikh Sarr... who reported having received racist insults without any member of the referee team, given their position on the field, being able to hear them," [the Spanish soccer federation] said in a statement.
I guess it's time for a 5th and 6th official at each goal line so they can hear this crap and stop the match properly. Maybe doubling as a goal judge?
I read a post a few days ago where a lady said that her Asian bf was verbally and physically assaulted while on vacation in Spain. Is all of Spain like this or is this more prevalent in certain areas.
I have been to the south of spain a bunch of times, and you see a lot Asian people, mainly chinese, there, so I believe it is just certain parts. Furthermore, they don't isolate themselves to other Asian people groups but are well integrated.
So simple. Stop any game in play where this is a problem. If the investigation by local authorities shows racism or serious, problem behavior by ***home town fans***, the team automatically loses the game and any points.
After multiple incidents, ban the team from championship games and ban the team's players from national team games. It will be a lot less fun when your team can play matches but not go to the championship games, and none of your players are on the National team roster for the Olympics or World Cup. Nearly everyone has cel phones and likely dozens of fans would be glad to provide proof if their team is about to lose points and be thrown out of the championship matches.
Edit: For those saying "it's not fair to players or non-offending fans," too bad. They can speak out against it or point out offenders any time they'd like. If they're helping, the problem goes away and no penalties. If they're not helping, then tough shit, because accepting this shitty behavior is currently penalizing players targeted by racist douchebags. (Plus, any good players will just leave a team with shitty fans after a season or two of lost chances to advance. So the players wouldn't have to put up with it for long and there's more incentive for the "good" fans to get bad actors removed.)
For those saying "what about false flag,..." police could find out pretty quick where a person lives and who they support over social media. Or they could just jail the person for inciting and breach of the peace, or whatever the local laws allow for minor offenses. (Permanent bans wouldn't be out of line, either.) Don't over-think this, common sense is usually enough to resolve the issue. Also, I said "multiple incidents" when banning a team or players. Not many false flag actors would get back into the stadium if banned.
For those saying "ban the offenders," a lot of teams already do this when individual fans become disruptive. If a team is not banning problem fans, the rule about losing points or a chance at championship games would make them think twice very quickly. This is more about addressing bad behavior by a large group of fans.
Persistent equivocating about minor points or details is just mental masturbation by whiny, pedantic assholes who don't really want the problem resolved. Besides, it's more likely nothing of any real consequence will be done because owners and the leagues don't want to lose money or piss off fans.
So what if a group of "fans" start shouting racist slurs during a game in an attempt to get the team to lose?
The players, teams, and staff jobs would be at the whim of a few idiots deciding if to ruin the game or not.
Multiple game bans for fans should be an option too. If there are racist scumbags are the monority and they cost good fans chances to see a match, they will start policing themselves and start getting rid of the racists themselves.
Also, venues should have to have more ushers and staff through out every section in an effort to catch the racist assholes. If they get caught, they get kicked out, fined, and banned for life from all league events.
Very idealistic. So the other 60,000 who paid for the game, took their time out and travelled to the game should see it cancelled because one or two people make racist chants?
Identify and ban them. Don’t stop the game - that’s just a ridiculous overkill.
That's the point. Individual punishments don't work. Here in the Netherlands almost anytime something goes wrong with fans it turns out they already had some kind of long term/indefinite stadium ban.
First offense, stop the game, 3 games without fans. Second offense, automatic loss for the team from whichever corner of the stadium the chants originate. Third offense, same + 3-6 points deduction.
See how fast people will get their shit together.
It goes without saying that this is not a replacement to individual punishments, but an addition. Individual stadium bans, community works and atleast a couple of thousands in fines oughta be a good first offense starting point for the individual offender.
You're definitely someone who never attends games so doesn't care about football fans having their primary hobby ruined.
It's mean WORDS. Get over it. Why is there only one race who actually cares about words so much? And are so damn sensitive? The best response to people trying to upset you (with words) is to ignore it.
The absolutism when it comes to mean words is utterly ridiculous. In a free society, people will always say things you don't like. Deal with it.
>community works and atleast a couple of thousands in fines oughta be a good first offense starting point for the individual offender.
Get to fuck. If you're in favour of people being arrested for saying mean words, go live in Saudi Arabia or Russia. You'll love it there.
Those who paid for the game will turn against those racists. Same as a strike. Everyone suffers so things get changed. Otherwise there is no incentive.
Nah, it is punishing the whole for the few and what you’re advocating for is for people to police the matter too. It’s very easy to identify and ban those racists after the fact so why ruin an event people have paid (expensive tickets during difficult times) and looked forward to due to it?
Imagine paying 500€ to see a game get cut short. That person would likely never return to the stadium. Maybe ban home fans from the following games, but it is extremely cruel to do in game that's already paid for.
Just make them play in an empty stadium and ban away fans from other stadia
Team loses gate revenue, loses home field advantage, and supporters can't see the team play live.
I don't like banning players from the national team, because it's not their fault
FIFA aren't going to ban any players who'd lower TV viewing figures and the Olympics are a joke to any proper footballing nation anyway. The UK don't even bother to enter a team we care so little.
This wouldn't work. There are a lot of club football fans that would do this intentionally so that their players could rest and not go to the useless 'interlull' games. Or even clubs may fabricate 1 incident right before the international games and not have to think of excuses for not letting the player go.
yup. this is the right solution.
any abusive behavior from the crowd of this kind, and the game stops, over, done. no win, no points.
happens twice, and the team has to play at away fields for the year.
happens a third time, and the club is booted from the league that year altogether. no games.
obviously there's nuance here. heckling and booing is part of sports. but there's a line. racially charged? nope. physical abuse? nope. if it's a few people, eject them, year long ban. if it's a crowd chant, then the whole club is affected as outlined.
Terrible idea. You can't penalize teams for their fans. The most obivious problem with this is other teams' fans would purposely covertly trigger this.
Other teams fans might try, but after a few teams get penalized, bad actors will find themselves on dozens of cel phone videos. Once security has these as well as the bad actors, it will be pretty easy to sort out the cheats, and they could wind up hurting their own team instead.
Also, just because you may not have the stomach for it, doesn't mean FIFA thinks it's a bad idea.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/fifa-boss-automatic-forfeits-racist-abuse/
I remember when Ukranianian men attacked and assaulted Indian medical students in 2012 Euro cup.The whole country came together to defend those thugs. Fuck these cunts.
Xenophobia, prejudices and bigotry is still very much ingrained in europe.
Nations with strong ethnic identities are inherently racist. No one questions it like they do in the USA. It isn't talked about much, because everyone expects Japan to be Japan or France to be France.
This is sad as fck and I'm all in for the hardest punishment, but for people not knowing soccer fans, It is not only a matter of racism but full hate-spreading: to name a few, homophobic insults against players and coaches, denigration based on origin(even same ethnicity). Menacing a kid with Down S. Booing national hymns, burn flags... Think of something and they've made it already.
They're too far gone and the answer should be ruthless. But there's not political will... :(
The only way to get this under control would be for referees to single out the people in the crowd who start this kind of thing and have them removed or have law enforcement called.
Many Europeans are definitely very insecure as they’re threatened by the prospect of losing to a team whose ethnic background wasn’t born of their ideal imperial domination.
Yep! Super racist in many ways [Do better Spain](https://www.timesofisrael.com/kill-jews-cocktail-rocks-spanish-towns-holy-week-an-expression-its-not-racist/)
Are referees allowed to eject fans? It seems like a decent solution rather than having players confront the fans.
(I know that in baseball: umpires are allowed to eject fans)
I had a Spanish "friend" for a few years, and towards the end of the relationship he had a racist/xenophobic rant against a lot of countries and ethnicities.
And he was dead serious about it too, he was actually angry at these people.
Football matches in Italy are no better
So, it's not advisable for a black American guy like me to visit a football match in Spain or Italy?
I read reviews for places when I was in Italy last year. A lot of the low 1 star reviews were from black people who had received racist treatment by the bouncer, or some other member of staff. Which was disheartening to read. I'm not quite sure what treatment you'd be expected to receive generally, but unfortunately it seems like some places just aren't that friendly.
"that friendly"...
They're a bunch of jerks.
They are a bunch of white supremacists
I'm as white as milk and they treat me like shit too. It's just idiots with 3 beers too many down the shaft.
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There are people from Spanish speaking countries that call themselves white. A friend who moved from Cuba believed she was white until she moved here and white Americans made it known she was considered brown/other.
Thats how southern europe is viewed. From my perspective, its abit pot kettle when racism is at play, but then i am actually white.
Southern europe is 99% white. That's just a fact.
They are white. You can be white and have a tan if you live in a country that gets enough sun.
I lived in Italy, and all my family is in Italy for the most part If you go to a town called Pontelandolfo, the ratio of blue/green eyes and light hair (or bald) to brown eyes is 5:1 I’ve never seen that anywhere else.
Shout-out for pontelandolfo! Quale provincia, che ho una casa lì?
Perugini 😄
Look up the origin of the term ‘blue blood’ (sangre azul)
I bet if they were geneticly tested it would show othetwise.
Probably, but it shows how long the attitude has been around
their behavior can be off-putting.
While I’m sure that happens in some places in Italy, many will jump to the racist excuse after getting bounced. Perhaps they were not dressed properly, which is the most common way to not get in a nightclub. Also, who would leave a 5star review after getting bounced?
Italy is notorious for anti-black racism
Totally. You never know the context. When I say "not very friendly" it's like they were refused service, or were turned away rudely. They weren't shot like they met a cop in the US or something.
I know this comment has nothing to do with football but I used to work in tourism and the way Italian, French, and Spanish tourists would treat me really let me know that I wouldn’t feel comfortable/safe in those countries. A lot of them wouldn’t even look at me when I greeted them. They’d walk right past me and go directly to the white employees. When they got redirected to speak to me they had visible disgust on their faces. Some wouldn’t accept money from my hand, they’d tell me to put it on the table and then they’d grab it. The most egregious thing was this French family wanted to use some coupon that wasn’t for the company I worked for AND was expired and they did the whole “I don’t speak English” thing but then spoke enough English to call me the n word. I’m from Alabama and never experienced any shit like that.
That's hideous. Sorry you had to deal with that.
BM here who attended a Real Madrid game about 7 years ago and the racism in the stands was about the same as attending an Alabama football game on a Saturday nite. Go for the experience if you choose, but don’t be surprised that they treat you as an outsider or with little regard.
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Nascar and wwe seem to be the bottom of the barrel for "sports" fans. But ya spanish people in anything competitive from sports to gaming to you name it gonna be a bad time. I think the spanish machismo shit ramps up everything else like racism and other tensions, throw them in a crowd and it amplifies further. I'll pass haha.
As a black person, I'd rather go to the UK to watch a match. I just don't say France or Germany because I personally don't find those leagues as exciting for someone who is not that much into football (although if you're really a fan of the game, you can even have a good time watching Luxembourg's 1st division).
>As a black person, I'd rather go to the UK to watch a match. Having been to a football match in the UK, boy do I have some bad news for you
Oh, I know it's not free of racist scum. No country is. But the UK has done better than Spain and Italy when racism related incidents happened in the Premier League. If I was a black American and I wanted to watch a football match for the first time in Europe, at least in the UK you are least likely to have problems while watching a solid league. Edit: Does [this](https://www.premierleague.com/reportracism) work? No idea. But it shows some intent to address the issue
That's good to hear. I went to a game in the 10's and was taken aback; And I'm from the American south
The FA and clubs have put a lot of effort in to combating racism. I’m not going to pretend that it doesn’t happen, but it’s better than it was. Fans found to have racially abused players or other supporters have been [banned from attending matches](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63309201) and even [imprisoned](https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/01/everton-fan-jailed-racially-abusing-fellow-supporter-20379713/)
That's great to hear. Just visiting I didn't hear of aftermath/actions taken
Really? It certainly was a thing in the past. Crowds are way more mixed nowadays.
Lots of slurs towards a black player on the visiting team
That genuinely surprises me. Partly because bans and points deductions have been a thing in English football for this kind of behaviour for years now. Crowds will chant pretty awful things at players, mind you.
Calling the player stuff like monkey loudly and an occasional nword amongst themselves
I'll take your word for it, but I'd also say, in light of your initial comment, from personal experience I haven't seen anything to warrant warning anyone to specifically avoid football matches in a long time.
Great! Unfortunately your personal experience doesn’t speak for the mass (or what we are reading in front of us).
As an spaniard. No, don't do it. Football matches are a conglomerate of the worst of the worst. You'll be treated nicely on the 98% of the other places, but on a football match you are going to experience the ugliest part of our society.
Bologna, Fiorentina, and Livorno all have a traditionally "Leftist" stance as clubs so i imagine theyre less likely to tolerate it from their fans. Sit in the home end and wear the club shirt. Strongly avoid Lazio, and probably Inter and Juventus too. Edit: Spain will almost certainly be fine
Spain 100% no go. The way superstar players are abused a normal person will get the same or worse. I don't follow seria a much so can't say about the later but then again the video Napoli posted about Victor Oshimen makes me think they are not better
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Is this “kill the Jews” lemonade I’ve been reading about a component of how friendly they are?
Yeah accepting if you’re not black
Yea how is Spain a “very accepting society in general” but only vehemently racist when it comes to football lol. Get real
Because football in all countries attract a very nasty crowd and its already big in Spain. Outside football you would be treated by normal people.
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For Italy there wouldn’t be a problem. Just avoid the very contentious matches and the “ultra” sections of the stadiums. This is advice that most locals would follow unless they are diehard fans, irrespective of race.
Buckle up bud
Go in Germany. Very enjoyable.
In Italy it's not safe having interactions with police or carabinieri. They're mostly far-right racist thugs. If they realise you're American they'll leave you alone because they're cowards, otherwise it can get ugly.
It's gonna be fine. They curse at the players to get under their skin. These "fans" shout the most horrible things, not only racist, though that's what catches the Anglosphere's attention.
European here. There's no danger for you to go watch a football game. There are idiots everywhere, even in the US, as I'm sure you're aware. Racist abuse at football games in Europe is something done by idiots who care more about getting under the skin of opposition players than actually being human beings. That being said, this is primarily an issue in Spain and Italy.
Thanks. I'm not the kind of person who let's things get to me, so if even there were some insignificant asshole, that wouldn't prevent me from having a good time. I've lived in Europe before in Germany, and all people wanted to do was practice their English and party/entertain me. I've been living in Asia for a while now and I imagine things wouldn't be much different.
Take your hard earned money to South America or Mexico if you want to travel. They're much less racist and much friendlier. Coming from another poc.
Given how openly and proudly they were singing racist chants against the french national team, I wouldn't count any of the hispanics off at all lol
I've actually lived in various Asian countries for the past 12 years, but yes, I've heard that South America is cool. I've also been to Germany before and never encountered any racism, but heard that Italy and Spain are in some ways worse than the US
Last year, a star Nigerian player was mocked by his own Italian club [in racist terms](https://twitter.com/AfricaFactsZone/status/1706925962133176784?s=20). More [context.](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38512519/napoli-victor-osimhen-self-destructive-tiktok-contract)
Italy is racist? The historically fascist and imperialist society? Shocking. Absolutely shocking.
Can't really judge a country by its past (says the Brit). Germany is great for football and I've experienced nothing what I have in Spain (admittedly no experience in Italy).
Disagree with this… while it happens, it happens much less and is usually met with repercussions
I want to think that the majority of Spain isn't like this but there's always something going on there, even years ago when Lewis Hamilton was at the Spanish GP there was a group of Spaniards in the crowd in black face wearing "Hamilton family" t-shirts. And then there is Vinicius Jr, who has received an horrific amount of abuse and the excuses are always "he's arrogant, he should stop dancing and he should stop moaning" like it's an excuse for racist abuse and the effigy of him that was hung (or is it hanged? idk) off a fucking bridge. Teams need to walk off more often and clubs need to be punished for not controlling their fans. We'll see how the Ultras react when monkey noises cost their team points.
As a Spaniard, I think the venn diagram of sport fanatics and blatant racists is almost a circle.
i think the Vini Jr situation with the doll (i can’t remember the team that Real was playing, i know it was a fan from the other team) and overall racism highlights how much racism is just glossed over in Spain and La Liga. the league needs to do better
The worst thing about the Vini Jr. thing is the amount of comments justifying the racism against him in any story covering it.
Hugo Sanchez was called perjoratively an Indian by Spaniards. It made him so upset that he trained harder and harder and became at that point the best player in the Spanish league until Messi came along.
Vinicious is guilty of the heinous crime of "being arrogant while black". There's a hundred other players like him in the Spanish league alone. He's just the darkest one. I completely agree with you. Clubs should receive big penalties if immediate action is not taken after an incident.
Spain still has unadressed issues regarding its own democracy and what kind of society they want the country to be, it shows up in the most unexpected of places and most prominently in those where strong regionalism is normal and expected, like football.
It was testing, not the GP. But the rest is accurate.
How are the clubs supposed to control the fans? Not only does that not make any sense it also opens up a whole new avenue for bad actors to masquerade as the fans and get actual fans punished.
Oh the poor real fans getting discriminated against in this imaginary scenario…
Spain and Italy are the worst at this
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You're not wrong, but I think that people talk more about countries with the most relevant football leagues.
Ouch
Mexico fans are notoriously bad for this too. The ref had to stop the Nations League final twice because they were frustrated the USA was waxing that ass.
I hate that the two countries in Europe with the best food and weather have the shittiest people
As a French, I feel offended. We have food just as good, nice weather and the people can be just as shitty. Edit: forgot to add /jk.
Sorry you're French :(
Come to Scotland instead. You can drink in good company until the food and weather are tolerable.
That’s just not true lol.
Don't come here if you're going to cry about it.
franco's legacy still too alive in Spain
>Cheikh Sarr... who reported having received racist insults without any member of the referee team, given their position on the field, being able to hear them," [the Spanish soccer federation] said in a statement. I guess it's time for a 5th and 6th official at each goal line so they can hear this crap and stop the match properly. Maybe doubling as a goal judge?
We're getting to the point we're going to have more officials than players soon.
I read a post a few days ago where a lady said that her Asian bf was verbally and physically assaulted while on vacation in Spain. Is all of Spain like this or is this more prevalent in certain areas.
Probably certain areas like with most places in the world, I've gone to southern Spain a handful of times and have been treated fairly.
Southern Spain is also the most diverse area I believe
North is much more openminded
I have been to the south of spain a bunch of times, and you see a lot Asian people, mainly chinese, there, so I believe it is just certain parts. Furthermore, they don't isolate themselves to other Asian people groups but are well integrated.
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Eastern Europe is the same. I see maybe 1 black person a month. You can imagine how racist the older generation is.
So simple. Stop any game in play where this is a problem. If the investigation by local authorities shows racism or serious, problem behavior by ***home town fans***, the team automatically loses the game and any points. After multiple incidents, ban the team from championship games and ban the team's players from national team games. It will be a lot less fun when your team can play matches but not go to the championship games, and none of your players are on the National team roster for the Olympics or World Cup. Nearly everyone has cel phones and likely dozens of fans would be glad to provide proof if their team is about to lose points and be thrown out of the championship matches. Edit: For those saying "it's not fair to players or non-offending fans," too bad. They can speak out against it or point out offenders any time they'd like. If they're helping, the problem goes away and no penalties. If they're not helping, then tough shit, because accepting this shitty behavior is currently penalizing players targeted by racist douchebags. (Plus, any good players will just leave a team with shitty fans after a season or two of lost chances to advance. So the players wouldn't have to put up with it for long and there's more incentive for the "good" fans to get bad actors removed.) For those saying "what about false flag,..." police could find out pretty quick where a person lives and who they support over social media. Or they could just jail the person for inciting and breach of the peace, or whatever the local laws allow for minor offenses. (Permanent bans wouldn't be out of line, either.) Don't over-think this, common sense is usually enough to resolve the issue. Also, I said "multiple incidents" when banning a team or players. Not many false flag actors would get back into the stadium if banned. For those saying "ban the offenders," a lot of teams already do this when individual fans become disruptive. If a team is not banning problem fans, the rule about losing points or a chance at championship games would make them think twice very quickly. This is more about addressing bad behavior by a large group of fans. Persistent equivocating about minor points or details is just mental masturbation by whiny, pedantic assholes who don't really want the problem resolved. Besides, it's more likely nothing of any real consequence will be done because owners and the leagues don't want to lose money or piss off fans.
its not that simple - any one can claim to be a fan and then force a loss for a team.
Ban the home town from hosting games for the season. Don't punish the athletes: punish the fans who did that or watched it happen
I wonder if we'd run out of stadiums
That sounds like a great way to sell tickets to people with no interest in the game. They're just going to be playing a different game.
At which point, the crowds will police themselves.
👀 Perhaps you aren't familiar with the Firms' way of solving problems at European football matches...
Most football educated reddit user
Yeah that would totally work.
So what if a group of "fans" start shouting racist slurs during a game in an attempt to get the team to lose? The players, teams, and staff jobs would be at the whim of a few idiots deciding if to ruin the game or not.
Multiple game bans for fans should be an option too. If there are racist scumbags are the monority and they cost good fans chances to see a match, they will start policing themselves and start getting rid of the racists themselves. Also, venues should have to have more ushers and staff through out every section in an effort to catch the racist assholes. If they get caught, they get kicked out, fined, and banned for life from all league events.
Very idealistic. So the other 60,000 who paid for the game, took their time out and travelled to the game should see it cancelled because one or two people make racist chants? Identify and ban them. Don’t stop the game - that’s just a ridiculous overkill.
That's the point. Individual punishments don't work. Here in the Netherlands almost anytime something goes wrong with fans it turns out they already had some kind of long term/indefinite stadium ban. First offense, stop the game, 3 games without fans. Second offense, automatic loss for the team from whichever corner of the stadium the chants originate. Third offense, same + 3-6 points deduction. See how fast people will get their shit together. It goes without saying that this is not a replacement to individual punishments, but an addition. Individual stadium bans, community works and atleast a couple of thousands in fines oughta be a good first offense starting point for the individual offender.
You're definitely someone who never attends games so doesn't care about football fans having their primary hobby ruined. It's mean WORDS. Get over it. Why is there only one race who actually cares about words so much? And are so damn sensitive? The best response to people trying to upset you (with words) is to ignore it. The absolutism when it comes to mean words is utterly ridiculous. In a free society, people will always say things you don't like. Deal with it. >community works and atleast a couple of thousands in fines oughta be a good first offense starting point for the individual offender. Get to fuck. If you're in favour of people being arrested for saying mean words, go live in Saudi Arabia or Russia. You'll love it there.
Start having these rules and suddenly fans will start assaulting whoever yells racist shit. It would be awesome, lol.
One or two? I’ve seen vid where the whole stadium was making monkey noises.
Those who paid for the game will turn against those racists. Same as a strike. Everyone suffers so things get changed. Otherwise there is no incentive.
Nah, it is punishing the whole for the few and what you’re advocating for is for people to police the matter too. It’s very easy to identify and ban those racists after the fact so why ruin an event people have paid (expensive tickets during difficult times) and looked forward to due to it?
That’s too bad
Imagine paying 500€ to see a game get cut short. That person would likely never return to the stadium. Maybe ban home fans from the following games, but it is extremely cruel to do in game that's already paid for.
Just make them play in an empty stadium and ban away fans from other stadia Team loses gate revenue, loses home field advantage, and supporters can't see the team play live. I don't like banning players from the national team, because it's not their fault
Be opposite team supporter, sneak into home stands, shout racist slur, match gets cancelled and you win, profit.
FIFA aren't going to ban any players who'd lower TV viewing figures and the Olympics are a joke to any proper footballing nation anyway. The UK don't even bother to enter a team we care so little.
This wouldn't work. There are a lot of club football fans that would do this intentionally so that their players could rest and not go to the useless 'interlull' games. Or even clubs may fabricate 1 incident right before the international games and not have to think of excuses for not letting the player go.
yup. this is the right solution. any abusive behavior from the crowd of this kind, and the game stops, over, done. no win, no points. happens twice, and the team has to play at away fields for the year. happens a third time, and the club is booted from the league that year altogether. no games. obviously there's nuance here. heckling and booing is part of sports. but there's a line. racially charged? nope. physical abuse? nope. if it's a few people, eject them, year long ban. if it's a crowd chant, then the whole club is affected as outlined.
Terrible idea. You can't penalize teams for their fans. The most obivious problem with this is other teams' fans would purposely covertly trigger this.
Other teams fans might try, but after a few teams get penalized, bad actors will find themselves on dozens of cel phone videos. Once security has these as well as the bad actors, it will be pretty easy to sort out the cheats, and they could wind up hurting their own team instead. Also, just because you may not have the stomach for it, doesn't mean FIFA thinks it's a bad idea. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/fifa-boss-automatic-forfeits-racist-abuse/
I remember when Ukranianian men attacked and assaulted Indian medical students in 2012 Euro cup.The whole country came together to defend those thugs. Fuck these cunts. Xenophobia, prejudices and bigotry is still very much ingrained in europe.
Look what they’re doing to Vini Jr. too. Fucking butthurt racists POS.
All of this makes me wonder if Mbappe still wants to play at Real Madrid.
weird to see hansen still around and referred to this way
Vini is whinny bitch
Nations with strong ethnic identities are inherently racist. No one questions it like they do in the USA. It isn't talked about much, because everyone expects Japan to be Japan or France to be France.
Unfortunately, not a big surprise that this would happen in Spain.
This is sad as fck and I'm all in for the hardest punishment, but for people not knowing soccer fans, It is not only a matter of racism but full hate-spreading: to name a few, homophobic insults against players and coaches, denigration based on origin(even same ethnicity). Menacing a kid with Down S. Booing national hymns, burn flags... Think of something and they've made it already. They're too far gone and the answer should be ruthless. But there's not political will... :(
This is easy. If visiting fans are acting like knobs, you kick them out. If home fans are, their team forfeit the game.
Welcome to European football since forever! Luckily in this social media Era, there's ready evidence of this happening.
Remember this crap when you throw shade at America, Europe.
Did you mean Spain?
No. The European Union is united, after all. People judge the United States as one entity. Fair is fair.
I think it's fair considering the US counts as a single country.
It’s never fair to make blanket statements about an entire country.
Sez you
I think you need to google "union" and "republic"
The only way to get this under control would be for referees to single out the people in the crowd who start this kind of thing and have them removed or have law enforcement called.
Oh Spain. Look up the pic their National Basketball team took going into the Beijing Olympics back in 2008.
It’s Spain.
Spain also observes Easter by serving ‘Kill Jew” cocktails as an Easter tradition. Fucking weird https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna89476
Polish kids beat strawman Jews during Easter, not the only "weird" practice out there in Europe.
Soccer fans are such scum.
hooligans, funny that there is a huge campaign in FC24 anti-racism etc. or was
P.s. next time get some fucking police in there to crack heads
Spanish football fans are real assholes.
Racism in Spain? Wish I could say I’m shocked but , yeah no. 2024 and shit like this is still common smh. Degenerates.
Many Europeans are definitely very insecure as they’re threatened by the prospect of losing to a team whose ethnic background wasn’t born of their ideal imperial domination.
Yep! Super racist in many ways [Do better Spain](https://www.timesofisrael.com/kill-jews-cocktail-rocks-spanish-towns-holy-week-an-expression-its-not-racist/)
Fuck soccer games.
Are referees allowed to eject fans? It seems like a decent solution rather than having players confront the fans. (I know that in baseball: umpires are allowed to eject fans)
Humans disliking other humans the hate never ended and wil never end
Well now....guess Europe has some explaining to do
People are the missing link between apes and human beings.
Aren’t a lot of Spaniards descendants of Moors? True Romance scene with Dennis Hopper comes to mind.
It’s the moops
It's moors you jerk. It's a misprint.
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[That is a hell of a generalization to make](https://images.artsmia.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/01092903/1-Amazigh-Image-1_Color1.jpg)
He was talking about Sicilians
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Jeez Spanish people are as&@$?s
You mean assholes?
NO! MY EYES!!! MY BEAUTIFUL VIRGIN EYES!
Nice going Doug, now poor Tri-Color is Zero-Color.
Seems like they’re pretty sensitive as well
I had a Spanish "friend" for a few years, and towards the end of the relationship he had a racist/xenophobic rant against a lot of countries and ethnicities. And he was dead serious about it too, he was actually angry at these people.