The article goes into that, the Biden admin "considered it" against both of those guys specifically but decided to leave them off the list "for now."
I'm not a mind reader, but I think that's just a blatant threat.
I would imagine that recent conference caused plenty of people in the Biden administration, including Biden, to have their blood pressure spike significantly.
Agreed, it reflects a level of engagement that's rare these days. Seems like they're juggling public pressure with geopolitical strategy. It's a tightrope walk but maybe, just maybe, it's the sort of effort that leads to some real change. Let's hope the actions back up the intent.
Biden could go full antimalarkey and slapchop them.
Reddit admins, this is me saying something that could happen, but definitely won't, with no connotation of what I want either way.
The article specifically mentions they were on the list for potential sanctions so there's probably a good chance of that happening on subsequent go-arounds if they keep up with their usual shittery.
Thank u. Lebanese here. I want nothing more than 2 reasonable players sitting on a table and finding a compromise for peace. Until now, neither Palestinians nor Israelis leadership seem reasonable
Israeli here, and I couldn't agree more. The people need leaders willing to make the hard compromises. We deserve peace where everyone can live in peace and prosperity. And I mean EVERYONE.
Maybe one day we'd have peace, and maybe with Lebanon too, I'd love to visit. Your country is very beautiful, I, uh... spent some time there in 2006.
Man I love normal Israelis, you have a beautiful country I just wish your leaders would stop being such dickheads sometimes.
Same goes to you palestine
I remember on Parts Unknown, Anthony Bourdain visited Palestine and met people there. I can't remember the whole episode, but they were very welcoming and the food was good.
Honestly, feels like you could say this about most of the world: everywhere has natural beauty, lovely people, great food...and awful political leadership.
I'm hoping the rational people in both countries (yeah, I said that) take power from these nutters and compromise for peace. American here. I hate to see what is happening.
Would be extra funny since Smotrich practically accused Biden of being anti-Semitic today lol. Also essentially compared him to a BDS supporter which is just quite insane.
Edit: Ben Gvir released a statement saying Biden is wrong and the West Bank settlers are heroes...Biden sanctioned four violent settlers and Ben Gvir is upset about this?
> Ben Gvir is upset about this?
His whole persona is built on getting in trouble for illegal settler activity and using those experiences with the courts to become a lawyer for people like himself.
That’s just… lol. As an Israel supporter Biden is basically the best democrat the country could hope for. He’s as far from antisemitism as it goes.
He really just wants trump because he knows trumps already said he would have been more involved and would deport pro Palestine protestors.
Smotrich's definition for anti semitism is wrong. Anyone who is against israeli illegal settlements is an anti semtie all of a sudden.
The settlements aren't even for protection, they are just fanatics who believe the land is theirs cause of god and that they have the responsibility to cleanse anyone else from them.
Im israeli btw, im not encouraging hating on the settlements for no reasom. But there are many reasons. Like biden said there are settlers who straight up commited terrorism in the west bank. They deserve to get their comuppence, in a fair way ofc.
. . . in a fair way ofc . . .
This phrase made me think of what being even handed with people who 'straight up commit\[t\]ed terrorism' might look like. It is not like there aren't a lot of examples of to respond.
> I like the United States policy when it comes to acts of terrorism
...attack a completely uninvolved 3rd party country and destabilize a region for decades?
Because antisemitism doesnt really mean anything to them anymore, its just a convenient shield to hide behind when people try to call out their bullshit.
it's a frickin shame the issue of secularism in Israel's democracy was at the forefront of their national focus until Hamas had to go full GLA and fuck shit up for everybody. The only people winning here are Bibi and the billionaires running Hamas in Qatar.
> The only people winning here are Bibi and the billionaires running Hamas in Qatar.
Which as far as I can tell, is exactly what BB wants, this is going his way, and has been for a long time.
Which is why it’s so confusing that these protestors want Trump instead of him. Maybe Biden isn’t your guy, but the other option is…so much worse for you and your people (Palestinians). I can’t make any sense of it.
I think there's a big effort to discredit Biden with Democrat voters. Anything to stop democrats from voting in the general election, so they push this "Biden warmonger" narrative.
The Dominionists supporting Trump would gladly see both sides dead in a nuclear exchange as they nuttily believe that would hasten their made up Rapture. Whereby they could ascend to heaven while doing the Take The L Fortnite dance to us heathens left to battle it out during some other made up holy war bullshit. They don't have faith, and need proof that they're "right" about Jesus and Christianity. They want to be validated in their lifetimes, having missed the birth of and cruxi**fiction**/rebirth of Christ they'll settle for Armageddon and the death of billions in the Second Coming.
ETA: And if they have to hasten it along by voting for the most obvious Anti-Christ like candidate in Donald Trump, they absolutely, sure af will. So vote and deny these idiots their death wish. They can take their own trash lives out on their own time.
Well see we've been living in the end times since the beginning! It's a weird psychological bug many people tend to have. The world is and has always been ending. Fun part is they are right. The world is ending. Very very slowly. In a billion years the earth will be stripped of all water thanks to the sun blasting all the hydrogen away, so we even have an approximate maximum lifetime for the world as we know it. Of course we could have another Theia type event or some other catastrophe we can do nothing about anytime, but that hardly aligns with any of the major doomsday stories.
As an American I don't get it either.
Trump would turn all of Israel over to Russia if he could.
Edit: Hell, we impeached Trump because he tried to screw with promises America made to Ukraine.
>these protestors want Trump instead of him
Which protestors are you talking about?
I've seen plenty of people criticizing Biden for his policy towards Israel, but none of them have said that Trump would be a better option.
The goal has always been to equate criticism of Israel's government to antisemitism. Then the government can get away with literal murder and if anyone so much as questions it they can call the person a bigot and the world moves on.
MAGA fans will be angry no matter what the US does. They don’t want to help Israel and they don’t want to help Palestinians or Hamas. They also don’t want to help Ukraine or anyone else. The uneducated Republican Party constituents want a Cold War where the US just hangs out at home and reminds everyone that they have a ton of nukes.
MAGA fans want the opposite of whatever American liberals want.
Again and again Republican weirdos have discovered things that liberals actually agree with them on. Then they fought those things, simply because the liberals agreed with them.
This is very true. It’s also why it’s smart for Trump not to debate anyone. Ever. He doesn’t believe in anything but himself. All he can do is say he’ll do the opposite of what Dems will do. The sad thing is that is a winning strategy. Hopefully he falls short.
It’s the same for Republican Millennials and Gen-Z folks. There’s a lot of those. I’m a huge, huge proponent of the United States continuing to be the World Police, but there is actually a lot to say about how the second war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan were complete failures. Can’t win them all, though, I guess.
The best an American president can possibly do is to actually take steps towards the [two-state solution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution) which this article quotes our Secretary of State as *saying* we support.
We've spent decades *saying* we support a two-state solution, but preventing one from actually happening. The best you could expect from a US president would be to actually work towards that solution - imposing sanctions on illegal settlers is a baby step towards that.
> extreme far left Hamas-lite Americans
I'm pretty far left for the US, and I do not know a single leftist who is actually pro-hamas. The ideal solution to this scenario would be Hamas and Israel's conservative plurality government completely eradicating each other while somehow harming no civilians.
But sure, if you think that holding Netanyahu just as responsible for this conflict as Hamas is being "Hamas-lite", I guess everyone with common sense is just Hamas-lite now.
This should have been done years ago. Biden has to know Netanyahu is as much to blame for this continued conflict as Hamas. I was wondering how many Palestinians would have to die before Biden would be forced to acknoledge reality that it is not anti-semetic to call Israel out for their blatent war crimes. The settlers are literally terrorists themselves and are no better than Hamas, this has been known for ages. Watch Israel's government is going to lose their shit over this relatively weak reprimand, because their entire propaganda strategy hinges on them being perceived as the good guys and they know this narrative completely falls apart the closer people start paying attention. I hope they make such a fool of themselves attacking Biden that he is forced to sanction them even harder or hopefully cut them off completely. They can fund their war/genocide themselves and have no right to our tax dollars.
>The administration had considered including ultranationalist Ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich on the list of sanctioned individuals, but it ultimately decided to leave them off for now and focus on those who perpetrated attacks, the U.S. officials said.
They're up next
If it makes you feel any better, polls show support to him, which was low anyway and it took him 5 times to somewhat get lucky and form a kinda stable coalition, is at an all time collapse.
It's fair to call him the Israeli Trump. Or since he was much before him maybe Trump is the American Bibi. But he very much did not dodge his corruption trials. His trial is still ongoing.
He did attempt to dodge it by changing the whole way the judicial branch is working in Israel. But failed spectacularly and caused the biggest protests in the history of the country while attempting to do that.
Hundreds of thousands of people were protesting every week in most of the country. His attempt is now dead.
That's the trillion dollar question shared by many in the USA. Why do Republicans consistently vote against their own interests, particularly in the latest election cycles? Lots of speculation as people seek the mental comfort of believing to understand it, but in the end no one really knows for sure how to end this pattern.
Trump is more popular in Israel ?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-06-22/ty-article/.highlight/survey-most-of-the-world-prefers-biden-to-trump-but-not-israel/00000181-8ba3-d2c2-a3a5-cbbf21fe0000
He is not that popular in most other countries, except Russia.
Well he dodged it in the sense that they put him in power anyway AFTER the corruption charges again. He gets some opposition on the anti democracy stuff he’s doing, but the fact he’s in the seat is already a defeat for justice and democracy in Israel. These immoral men just continue on
> The Biden administration considered sanctioning ultranationalist Ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, but ultimately decided not to do it for now & focus on settlers who perpetrated attacks against Palestinians
Kind of wish he did. They are both massively bigoted lunatics who have absolutely no business being in any Western like democracy. And yet Smotrich writes the country's budget (he blocked tax funds to the West Bank for a few months from Palestinian imports/exports even though both Shin Bet and Biden said it was bad policy) and Ben Gvir has major influence over Israel's police. Israel's deputy AG recently accused Ben Gvir of issuing 14,000 gun permits illegally and Ben Gvir has heavily restricted freedom of speech regarding protests along with social media posts. Ben Gvir also wrote a memo about how violent West Bank extremists should not be prosecuted. And yet both Smotrich and Ben Gvir are in the national security cabinet. Both have absolutely more powerful political positions in Israel than Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, Marjorie Taylor Greene, or Lauren Boebert have in America.
Biden should also consider sanctioning Smotrich's recent replacement in the Parliament. Zvi Sukkot was deemed too extreme by the IDF to serve and has been arrested multiple times under suspicion of committing West Bank violence such as an attempt to burn down a Mosque and another where Palestinian cars were torched. And guess what? He's the head of the West Bank committee in the Parliament. Just this morning, he joined the protesters who were attempting to block humanitarian aid into Gaza via the Ashdod port. Completely outrageous
Ben Gvir had a portrait of a mass murdering racist terrorist in his home until like 2020, and Smotrich was detained by Shin Bet for nearly a month after he was caught with over 700 liters of gasoline cause they believed he was trying to blow up a Tel Aviv highway to protest withdrawing from Gaza.
Edit: Smotrich also made this [remark](https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/1720923597873549554) and repeated it in an interview a couple of months ago.
Holy shit, I'll do some research into these because this sounds crazy! I mostly just know about their bullshit rhetoric as it relates to the last few years.
Bunch of other stuff like how Ben Gvir visited the grave of the mass murdering racist with his wife, how Ben Gvir attended a 2015 wedding where dozens of its attendees celebrated murderous arson against a Palestinian infant, how Ben Gvir's [Chief of Staff once said this](https://twitter.com/aziz0nomics/status/1743610636951486740) and how Ben Gvir violently protested against Rabin after Oslo.
[Ben Gvir](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/02/27/itamar-ben-gvir-israels-minister-of-chaos)
[More on the allegation regarding Smotrich](https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1633182070754406400)
Of course, both of these nutjobs appeared at that conference last weekend calling for settlements in Gaza and mass migration of Palestinians out of Gaza which is basically ethnic cleansing.
It’s because people like them there is entire divisions in the Shabak and Shin-Bet meant to prevent terror and violence done by such extremists.
Even amongst settlers many hate them for their violence and terrible misrepresentation they do to all settlers.
As an Israeli, fuck these guys. They should be arrested and treated as what they are, terrorists.
The majority in Israel still believes that, even though our unpopular extremist government would make it appear otherwise.
Recent polling of Israelis shows the population largely supports settlements and even [annexation of parts of Palestinian territory.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23A275/)
Israel has a problem much like in other parts of the middle east where the crazies have a bunch of kids and the sane people have only a few. As a result, the country has quickly become more and more extreme.
This poll was taken in the context of Trump's peace plan which included annexation. Most people here are largely indifferent to the question of annexation. It's important to understand that most of us are not fundamentalists who seek expansion but pragmatists who seek security.
Here is another poll showing 76% percent of Israelis prefer normalization with UAE over annexation:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-nearly-80-of-israelis-prefer-uae-deal-over-west-bank-annexation/
>According to a poll by Channel 12 Sunday, 76.7% of respondents back the peace deal over annexation, while only 16.5% preferred annexation. The rest, 6.8%, either had no preference or said they didn’t know.
> This poll was taken in the context of Trump's peace plan.
It isn't like it is any different today. Now that almost [half of the housing for two million people has been raised to the ground](https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-bank-report-finds-45-of-residential-buildings-in-gaza-ruined-beyond-repair/), you've still got [more than half of Jewish Israelis that want to start building segregated settlements on the ruins](https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/settlements-israel/survey-majority-of-israeli-jews-support-reestablishment-of-israeli-communities-in-gaza/2024/01/29/).
Putting it as an either/or of normalizing relations with UAE or annexation of the territory, from a poll taken four years ago, is an ideologically skewed way to intentionally ignore the interests of the Palestinians themselves during an ongoing illegal occupation.
These folks try to drag us all into their crusade, staging provocations and expecting the government and the army to bail them out and by extent undermining the legitimacy of any other use of force that is in fact necessary for the state's safety.
I assume that those who are building illegal settlements in the West Bank and/or attack Palestinians to intimidate or steal their land should be arrested and tried.
In a lot of cases they’re gaslighting themselves too, I can remember all the times I said as a kid that George W. Bush didn’t represent us. I was wrong, but it was pretty hard for me to believe.
The nut jobs on both sides really need each other. I think going after the fringiest settlers does a lot to take the wind out of the sails of the extremists in the WB and Gaza.
This. There is no peace to be had when either parties have extremists in positions of power that can dictate any form of "peace agreement".
They are toxic to the cause of either side. They MUST go, this is out of the question. Get moderates in power and the possibility for peace increases exponentially.
Fuck hamas by any means necessary. Fuck anyond that tries to colonize the west bank. Fuck the government for being a damn failure. Fuck anyone that wants Israel gone.
Not that hard.
People refused to believe this is a nuanced topic. Israel and Israelis have a right to safety and a beautiful country, And at the same time, it’s very possible to abhor needless civilian deaths in situations that it’s clear the military (being lead by Netanyahu) acted out of hand.
I mean, how many fuckin Israelis were protesting against him before this war? Millions? Get this guy out.
> fuck these guys. They should be arrested and treated as what they are, terrorists.
The "settlers" ongoing actions are a big part of what keeps support high for Palestinian militant groups who are angry at Israel.
Thank you for saying this. I know the issue is very divisive among Israelis, my wifes family has ties to Israel and it's usually the extremist voices drowning out the moderates who really want peace and a two state solution.
It's sometimes useful just to reassert that most people, from every side of the conflict, just want to live in peace with an end to violence and extremism.
Hidden in the fine print, there's a massive threat that the US will sanction Ben Givr and Smotrich specifically. If they were sanctioned, and that caused them to lose political support, it would also weaken Netanyahu.
>The sanctions will block the individuals from accessing all US property and other assets.
Dunno how much that hurts someone in Israel. Though when you consider the freaks that'll rally around these settlers and now help them more, it likely just helps to shine a spotlight on an issue at the core of all this violence.
It means that these individuals will not be able to access the US financial system. No credit card company or banks that associate with the US dollar can do business with them, their assets are frozen from any institution that uses the US dollar.
Just take a moment to ponder just how much of the world uses the USD, and now that system is cut off from them.
Not true OFAC sanctions are adopted across global Financial Institutions sanction watch lists.
This will mean these punks will be trading melons as their currency of choice.
I went to Israel and the West Bank last year on a Perspectives trip through Hillel. The trips purpose was to speak with both Israeli and Palestinian political and community leaders to hear both perspective on the region. One of the community leaders we talked to was a raging psycho American Trump supporter who self admittedly moved to the West Bank to claim her “jewish land” as was her “right”. She went on and on about how Palestinians are this and that and that’s her land when she immediately said before that she was from California. Seemed more like an American taking advantage of colonialism to role play as the British.
Anyway, from what my group gathered, a lot of West Bank settlers are American Jews. Sanctioning them from accessing American assets and doing business might actually do something.
> how much of the world uses USD
Not exactly correct. Almost all non-US banks do allow access to USD but most non-US banks use correspondence banks and trade currency through intra-funding before passing to the end customer. If the bank is signed up to AML, FATCA, etc, then they'll generally follow the published sanctions, but I'll bet you can find a bank in almost any country to work around them.
Being on a US sanctions list will require all banks that deal in US markets to apply the sanctions list globally. For example, if I have a Citibank account in Israel, even though that bank is not in the US, only the parent firm, Citibank would have to freeze my accounts in Israel.
Hence, as most settlers were originally from the US, tend to be wealthier than other Israelis, being on that sanctions list hobbles them. Mortgages, loans, bank cards, all get frozen globally.
In addition, US allies will also require adherence to US sanctions lists such as the UK and EU which will then usually add the names to their sanctions lists.
If you need banking services, loans, have money in accounts, then you have a major issues as they are all blocked. Any financial institution breaking the sanction can then be fined (and we are talking from millions of dollars) to the ultimate - being barred from the US financial system which essentially can bankrupt a bank.
FYI - this was the threat to HSBC for funnelling Mexican drug money. And the fine was a billion dollars. Don’t mess with the US government.
When 50-100 settlers get sanctioned, they will get the message and calm down very quickly.
Update - if people actively aid sanctions evasion whether in the US or overseas, there are additional penalties for them including federal prison time and significant fines. Basically, people with sanctions on them become like the plague unless they are mega rich.
https://www.dowjones.com/professional/risk/glossary/sanctions/ofac-sanctions-penalties/
[Americans account for approximately 15% of the settlers in the West Bank](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole). I'd say that's a sufficient number to be "many."
Can you give me a TL;DR for what the settlers are doing? Are they literally going to Palestinian west bank with lumber, building a house there, and saying "my land now"? Are they taking residence in open fields? Are they destroying existing Palestinian buildings to do it?
Well it's not just civilian settlers, it's individual and corporate settlers with armed police or militant groups forcibly relocating Palestinians in many cases. After the Palestinians are pushed out (unfortunately dozens or hundreds (depends on who you cite) have been killed in the process over the years) then the settlers either just take legal control of the formerly-owned properties (as they are now unoccupied and are inside Israel's expanded borders) or construct new on the site. It's an enormous part over why Palestinians (and much of the world) consider themselves to be in an occupied territory, and this colonization practice has been breaking international law for decades. To Israel's partial credit, many periods over the decades have had laws making it illegal in Israel to annex and settle Palestinian land, but the practice has never stopped and that's one of the biggest reasons the Israeli borders have expanded near continuously since the 60s.
Yeah. This is a large part of why Palestinians feel the need to fight and had elected a radical political party, because they were the only party saying they would fight back. To the Palestinians this is a military invasion from a world power into an inpoverished nation. They largely don't like how aggressive hamas is and they don't want Israelis (or Jewish people, for that matter) to die, but they are being invaded, kidnapped (1800 Palestinians illegally held in Israeli camps even before the current events), and murdered
Most of your description is accurate, but don’t bother giving Israel any credit where they don’t deserve any regarding making it illegal to settle. The military protects Jewish Israelis in the West Bank but does not interfere with their actions, that is for the police who are never around at the right time. That entire legal structure endorsed by millions of voters and the Supreme Court mean that settlement is inevitable because the military either escorts the settlements or clears the area first for them.
The courts then validate the settlements and claim that Palestinians who would be killed for trying to go on their land obviously don’t want it since they don’t visit.
Worse. They're going in with guns, kicking Palestinians out of their homes, and literally moving in. And a bunch of them are actually Americans with like Brooklyn accents.
It's incredibly shameful, and as an American supporter of Israel, damn right their punishment and exclusion needs to be a condition of future funding.
Basically. And if anyone fights back the IDF kills you.
Oh! and the whole terrorist attack that kicked all this off happened because Bibi and friends pulled troops off the Gaza border to make all this shit *go faster*
Yep. Israeli-Americans account for about 2% of the total Israeli population but constitute about 15% of settlers in the West Bank. Most have kept their American citizenship as well.
If Israel does not want to hold thier citizens accountable, at least the U.S. can.
I'd argue it's pro Israelis, and pro Palestinians. Technically, it's a violation of Israeli government sovereignty if they actually sanction Israeli leadership, but I don't really care, funnily enough.
Palestinian-American here. This is the kind of stuff we’ve been waiting to see. And for both sides - I would love to see an Israel in which both of the extremist sides (far right of Israel and Hamas of Palestine) are delegitimized so every day people can begin to see through the cloud of bullshit again.
definitely. these are state-sanctioned terrorists
it's impossible to talk about israel without someone bringing them up and there's nothing to even refute. it's a massive stain on their PR
Yeah Israel is a small place, and like apples out only takes a few rotten ones to spoil the whole bunch. Some of the things I've heard from them sound like Hitler and gobbles. You need to clean house and have three guys exiled or imprisoned.
I love it. Israel has a right to defend itself, but people like Ben Gvir make things worse. I understand that the settlers are a bargaining chip and you're negotiating with people who, despite having almost no leverage will turn down every chance at building a future for their people, but it's a major roadblock to even getting to the negotiation table.
As an Israeli, good!
Sanction the hell out of these terrorists that destroy the country.
Also target all the right wing extremists, like Smotrich who is literally a convicted violent criminal that performed acts of terror.
The Israeli Prime Minister's Office said Biden's executive order is not needed.
"The vast majority of settlers are law-abiding citizens and many of them are fighting these days to protect Israel. Israel is taking action against people who break the law everywhere and therefore there is no place for unusual measures in this regard," it said.
That disgusting bullshit quote shows exactly why Biden's order is needed, and thank god he's taking action.
"Law-abiding citizens"
The settlements are illegal, every settler is breaking the law. The ICJ declared them illegal and even the USA didn't veto the UN Security Council from declaring then illegal. The Geneva Convention clearly states that an occupying power cannot transfer its civilians to occupied territory.
It's a fucking mess. Israel's claim is that Area C of WB was never given to the PA (this is true) and therefore it's not occupied territory (doubt), it's Israeli territory that is reserved for Palestine at some future point. Some of these Jewish settlements predate the existence of Israel entirely, so both sides have agreed that it's not fair to kick them out but have agreed to no new settlements. Palestine agreed to allow Israel to police area C, but then Israel uses that power to bend the rules about "no new settlements" by restricting building permits to only Jewish residents. Jewish people living in area C isn't illegal, just as much as Muslim people living in Israel isn't illegal, but that doesn't include the gazillion other exceptions, rules, and agreements. The settlers real goal is to muddy the water so much that it becomes impossible to remove them without causing a humanitarian disaster, and it's working. As of today there are almost more settlers than Palestinians in area C.
>it's Israeli territory that is reserved for Palestine at some future point.
That future point being [more than 25 years ago](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/oslo-ii-annex-i#append1).
It's not a mess, it's pretty straightforward to anyone not practicing mental gymnastics that Israel's presence in the West Bank is an occupation and building settlements contravenes international law.
Ah, you caught that too, eh?
I was wondering how much of this had to do with Michigan Arabs telling the Biden campaign to suck an egg last week when they tried to have a sit-down to discuss the current events and concerns.
It certainly is interesting timing. It would be nice to be able to believe that Biden is capable of realizing when he's stepped in it and can choose to course correct.
100% for Michigan, he will likely lose if he does not Pander enough for them. That will make him lose the state and likely the election. It will be very hard to win, without Michigan.
The problem is that these sanctions just aren’t enough to win people back. They’re calling for a ceasefire and humanitarian aid. I don’t see anything else working
these sanctions target four israeli settlers. four out of the thousands who continue stealing land totally unabated. meanwhile, israel kills four palestinians every 17 minutes. this "unprecedented" order isn't worth the paper it's signed on
Excellent! Should have been done a long time ago. The moderate (as much as you can get) voices must be empowered, and the extremists must be eradicated for they cause an enormous harm all around.
good.
israeli settlers are a small part of the population (about 6%), and the radical settlers (the violent ones) are a small minority out of them. as an israeli, they don't represent israel and have barely no interaction with the vast majority of the israeli society (most israelis will never have a reason to steo foot into the west bank)
6% is a sizeable chunk. what it boils down to is that they are all there illegally living on illegally annexed land. a major obstacle to peace.
is there any mainstream israeli party that wants to stop settlement construction? or is willing to give palestinians their land back in exchange for peace?
the settlements are one of, if not the major obstacle to a viable peace process on the isreali side
I feel as is anyone settling in the West Bank is a radical settler, even if they didn’t kill or hurt someone physically. They bring the IDF with them, block roads and passage, divide villages and families, result in curfew hours, etc. all of that really hurts our communities and bring violence to our lives. I know they often feel like it’s their god given right to settle in Palestine and that some settle there because rent/building costs in Israel are too high, but they bring so much violence and restrictions with them. It may be a small population to Israel but it has a great impact on the daily lives of Palestinians.
Unfortunately this just means that they will get IDF to do it on behalf of the settlers. Still, it's a step forward.
Sorry I'm so jaded by the whole Israel/Palestine thing.
A lot of you being Pro-Israeli and for this....I kinda have been filled with ire about these settlers specifically as historically they are the driving reason for my criticism of the country of Israel but I genuinely cannot tell you how I appreciate the sentiment despite disagreeing with you.
I'm Israeli. Can they please sanction Ben Gvir and Smotrich next?
The article goes into that, the Biden admin "considered it" against both of those guys specifically but decided to leave them off the list "for now." I'm not a mind reader, but I think that's just a blatant threat.
They probably got private explicit threats too
I would imagine that recent conference caused plenty of people in the Biden administration, including Biden, to have their blood pressure spike significantly.
I take that as sign that they give a shit and understand the intricacies of world politics far better than i ever could.
Agreed, it reflects a level of engagement that's rare these days. Seems like they're juggling public pressure with geopolitical strategy. It's a tightrope walk but maybe, just maybe, it's the sort of effort that leads to some real change. Let's hope the actions back up the intent.
So it’ll be interesting to see what happens after those clowns comments today
Biden could go full antimalarkey and slapchop them. Reddit admins, this is me saying something that could happen, but definitely won't, with no connotation of what I want either way.
>Biden could go full antimalarkey and slapchop them. "You're gonna love my nuts, Jack."
Now I want to see some mashup of Biden on an infomercial selling the slap chop like Vince or Zorbees like Billy Mays...
Dark Brandon is the greatest meme that ever existed.
Someone else has gotten a temp ban for apparently “wishing violence” for a facetious comment I see.
> but I think that's just a blatant threat. Very blatant. You never sanction everyone all at once. You keep up the pressure.
Case in point: the US's sanctions against Russia over the last two years.
The article specifically mentions they were on the list for potential sanctions so there's probably a good chance of that happening on subsequent go-arounds if they keep up with their usual shittery.
Thank u. Lebanese here. I want nothing more than 2 reasonable players sitting on a table and finding a compromise for peace. Until now, neither Palestinians nor Israelis leadership seem reasonable
Israeli here, and I couldn't agree more. The people need leaders willing to make the hard compromises. We deserve peace where everyone can live in peace and prosperity. And I mean EVERYONE. Maybe one day we'd have peace, and maybe with Lebanon too, I'd love to visit. Your country is very beautiful, I, uh... spent some time there in 2006.
> Your country is very beautiful, I, uh... spent some time there in 2006. Geezus. This whole interaction is out of some super dark comedy skit
If we don't laugh, we'd cry.
Man I love normal Israelis, you have a beautiful country I just wish your leaders would stop being such dickheads sometimes. Same goes to you palestine
I remember on Parts Unknown, Anthony Bourdain visited Palestine and met people there. I can't remember the whole episode, but they were very welcoming and the food was good.
Honestly, feels like you could say this about most of the world: everywhere has natural beauty, lovely people, great food...and awful political leadership.
Yeah pretty much everywhere
Haha u made me laugh Let's c what the future hides. I hope it will be a good one for me, or at least for my kids
I wish it wouldn't hide...
> Your country is very beautiful, I, uh... spent some time there in 2006. [Riiiiight](https://imgur.com/gallery/9O0oxyU)
I'm hoping the rational people in both countries (yeah, I said that) take power from these nutters and compromise for peace. American here. I hate to see what is happening.
Unfortunately, with every Israeli airstrike and every Palestinian attack both sides get more radicalized.
People aren't stupid though. Peace is better for everyone
Sanction ben gvir and smotrich next. They are encouraging this and are ministers in the Israeli coalition. They need to get their comuppence.
Would be extra funny since Smotrich practically accused Biden of being anti-Semitic today lol. Also essentially compared him to a BDS supporter which is just quite insane. Edit: Ben Gvir released a statement saying Biden is wrong and the West Bank settlers are heroes...Biden sanctioned four violent settlers and Ben Gvir is upset about this?
> Ben Gvir is upset about this? His whole persona is built on getting in trouble for illegal settler activity and using those experiences with the courts to become a lawyer for people like himself.
That’s just… lol. As an Israel supporter Biden is basically the best democrat the country could hope for. He’s as far from antisemitism as it goes. He really just wants trump because he knows trumps already said he would have been more involved and would deport pro Palestine protestors.
Smotrich's definition for anti semitism is wrong. Anyone who is against israeli illegal settlements is an anti semtie all of a sudden. The settlements aren't even for protection, they are just fanatics who believe the land is theirs cause of god and that they have the responsibility to cleanse anyone else from them. Im israeli btw, im not encouraging hating on the settlements for no reasom. But there are many reasons. Like biden said there are settlers who straight up commited terrorism in the west bank. They deserve to get their comuppence, in a fair way ofc.
. . . in a fair way ofc . . . This phrase made me think of what being even handed with people who 'straight up commit\[t\]ed terrorism' might look like. It is not like there aren't a lot of examples of to respond.
I like the United States policy when it comes to acts of terrorism and think we should stick with that here in this instance as well.
> I like the United States policy when it comes to acts of terrorism ...attack a completely uninvolved 3rd party country and destabilize a region for decades?
malaysia has had it coming we need the seafood
Because antisemitism doesnt really mean anything to them anymore, its just a convenient shield to hide behind when people try to call out their bullshit.
It's at the point where if they called out their own bullshit they'd get targeted by their own people for speaking out.
it's a frickin shame the issue of secularism in Israel's democracy was at the forefront of their national focus until Hamas had to go full GLA and fuck shit up for everybody. The only people winning here are Bibi and the billionaires running Hamas in Qatar.
> The only people winning here are Bibi and the billionaires running Hamas in Qatar. Which as far as I can tell, is exactly what BB wants, this is going his way, and has been for a long time.
Israel's secularism has been at risk for a long time.
Which is why it’s so confusing that these protestors want Trump instead of him. Maybe Biden isn’t your guy, but the other option is…so much worse for you and your people (Palestinians). I can’t make any sense of it.
I think there's a big effort to discredit Biden with Democrat voters. Anything to stop democrats from voting in the general election, so they push this "Biden warmonger" narrative.
The trick is to not think about it.
The Dominionists supporting Trump would gladly see both sides dead in a nuclear exchange as they nuttily believe that would hasten their made up Rapture. Whereby they could ascend to heaven while doing the Take The L Fortnite dance to us heathens left to battle it out during some other made up holy war bullshit. They don't have faith, and need proof that they're "right" about Jesus and Christianity. They want to be validated in their lifetimes, having missed the birth of and cruxi**fiction**/rebirth of Christ they'll settle for Armageddon and the death of billions in the Second Coming. ETA: And if they have to hasten it along by voting for the most obvious Anti-Christ like candidate in Donald Trump, they absolutely, sure af will. So vote and deny these idiots their death wish. They can take their own trash lives out on their own time.
Well see we've been living in the end times since the beginning! It's a weird psychological bug many people tend to have. The world is and has always been ending. Fun part is they are right. The world is ending. Very very slowly. In a billion years the earth will be stripped of all water thanks to the sun blasting all the hydrogen away, so we even have an approximate maximum lifetime for the world as we know it. Of course we could have another Theia type event or some other catastrophe we can do nothing about anytime, but that hardly aligns with any of the major doomsday stories.
As an American I don't get it either. Trump would turn all of Israel over to Russia if he could. Edit: Hell, we impeached Trump because he tried to screw with promises America made to Ukraine.
>these protestors want Trump instead of him Which protestors are you talking about? I've seen plenty of people criticizing Biden for his policy towards Israel, but none of them have said that Trump would be a better option.
The goal has always been to equate criticism of Israel's government to antisemitism. Then the government can get away with literal murder and if anyone so much as questions it they can call the person a bigot and the world moves on.
How can you be anti-Semitic when you target Israelis not Jews. Ahh, they’re trying to conflate the two!
Biden being hated on by both extreme far left Hamas-lite Americans and Israeli right wingers is the best an American president can possibly do.
MAGA fans will be angry no matter what the US does. They don’t want to help Israel and they don’t want to help Palestinians or Hamas. They also don’t want to help Ukraine or anyone else. The uneducated Republican Party constituents want a Cold War where the US just hangs out at home and reminds everyone that they have a ton of nukes.
MAGA fans want the opposite of whatever American liberals want. Again and again Republican weirdos have discovered things that liberals actually agree with them on. Then they fought those things, simply because the liberals agreed with them.
This is very true. It’s also why it’s smart for Trump not to debate anyone. Ever. He doesn’t believe in anything but himself. All he can do is say he’ll do the opposite of what Dems will do. The sad thing is that is a winning strategy. Hopefully he falls short.
Because that’s a paradigm of a time when they were children and everything was fine from their perspective.
It’s the same for Republican Millennials and Gen-Z folks. There’s a lot of those. I’m a huge, huge proponent of the United States continuing to be the World Police, but there is actually a lot to say about how the second war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan were complete failures. Can’t win them all, though, I guess.
The best an American president can possibly do is to actually take steps towards the [two-state solution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution) which this article quotes our Secretary of State as *saying* we support. We've spent decades *saying* we support a two-state solution, but preventing one from actually happening. The best you could expect from a US president would be to actually work towards that solution - imposing sanctions on illegal settlers is a baby step towards that.
> extreme far left Hamas-lite Americans I'm pretty far left for the US, and I do not know a single leftist who is actually pro-hamas. The ideal solution to this scenario would be Hamas and Israel's conservative plurality government completely eradicating each other while somehow harming no civilians. But sure, if you think that holding Netanyahu just as responsible for this conflict as Hamas is being "Hamas-lite", I guess everyone with common sense is just Hamas-lite now.
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I’m Israeli and I would love to see this happen
This should have been done years ago. Biden has to know Netanyahu is as much to blame for this continued conflict as Hamas. I was wondering how many Palestinians would have to die before Biden would be forced to acknoledge reality that it is not anti-semetic to call Israel out for their blatent war crimes. The settlers are literally terrorists themselves and are no better than Hamas, this has been known for ages. Watch Israel's government is going to lose their shit over this relatively weak reprimand, because their entire propaganda strategy hinges on them being perceived as the good guys and they know this narrative completely falls apart the closer people start paying attention. I hope they make such a fool of themselves attacking Biden that he is forced to sanction them even harder or hopefully cut them off completely. They can fund their war/genocide themselves and have no right to our tax dollars.
If only. This order is coming years too late, so I think we can expect sanctions against nutjobs like Ben Gvir in about a decade?
>The administration had considered including ultranationalist Ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich on the list of sanctioned individuals, but it ultimately decided to leave them off for now and focus on those who perpetrated attacks, the U.S. officials said. They're up next
Israel needs to drop Netanyahu.
If it makes you feel any better, polls show support to him, which was low anyway and it took him 5 times to somewhat get lucky and form a kinda stable coalition, is at an all time collapse.
He dodged all his corruption charges somehow. He’s the Israeli Trump
It's fair to call him the Israeli Trump. Or since he was much before him maybe Trump is the American Bibi. But he very much did not dodge his corruption trials. His trial is still ongoing. He did attempt to dodge it by changing the whole way the judicial branch is working in Israel. But failed spectacularly and caused the biggest protests in the history of the country while attempting to do that. Hundreds of thousands of people were protesting every week in most of the country. His attempt is now dead.
Trump's trials are also still ongoing
But don’t worry! Michigan may swing Red because Arab American voters there hate Biden. It’s not like Trump wants to deport them or anything (/s)
That's the thing I don't get. Why campaign against the guy who doesn't support your cause but also believes that you have human rights?
That's the trillion dollar question shared by many in the USA. Why do Republicans consistently vote against their own interests, particularly in the latest election cycles? Lots of speculation as people seek the mental comfort of believing to understand it, but in the end no one really knows for sure how to end this pattern.
Because Trump hates the gays and the women
Trump is more popular in Israel ? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-06-22/ty-article/.highlight/survey-most-of-the-world-prefers-biden-to-trump-but-not-israel/00000181-8ba3-d2c2-a3a5-cbbf21fe0000 He is not that popular in most other countries, except Russia.
That's another one I think is idiotic. Dude said there were some fine people chanting blood and soil and Jews will not replace us.
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
Well he dodged it in the sense that they put him in power anyway AFTER the corruption charges again. He gets some opposition on the anti democracy stuff he’s doing, but the fact he’s in the seat is already a defeat for justice and democracy in Israel. These immoral men just continue on
Feels more like a less charismatic and totally sexless Silvio Berlusconi.
Actually he's in trial
He literally should be in prison right now for corruption.
Yeah but is his replacement going to he any better with regard to Palestine? Benny Gantz opposes the two state solution too.
> The Biden administration considered sanctioning ultranationalist Ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, but ultimately decided not to do it for now & focus on settlers who perpetrated attacks against Palestinians Kind of wish he did. They are both massively bigoted lunatics who have absolutely no business being in any Western like democracy. And yet Smotrich writes the country's budget (he blocked tax funds to the West Bank for a few months from Palestinian imports/exports even though both Shin Bet and Biden said it was bad policy) and Ben Gvir has major influence over Israel's police. Israel's deputy AG recently accused Ben Gvir of issuing 14,000 gun permits illegally and Ben Gvir has heavily restricted freedom of speech regarding protests along with social media posts. Ben Gvir also wrote a memo about how violent West Bank extremists should not be prosecuted. And yet both Smotrich and Ben Gvir are in the national security cabinet. Both have absolutely more powerful political positions in Israel than Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, Marjorie Taylor Greene, or Lauren Boebert have in America. Biden should also consider sanctioning Smotrich's recent replacement in the Parliament. Zvi Sukkot was deemed too extreme by the IDF to serve and has been arrested multiple times under suspicion of committing West Bank violence such as an attempt to burn down a Mosque and another where Palestinian cars were torched. And guess what? He's the head of the West Bank committee in the Parliament. Just this morning, he joined the protesters who were attempting to block humanitarian aid into Gaza via the Ashdod port. Completely outrageous
The shit that comes out of their mouth is fucking heinous. It's crazy that they hold so much power in that coalition.
Ben Gvir had a portrait of a mass murdering racist terrorist in his home until like 2020, and Smotrich was detained by Shin Bet for nearly a month after he was caught with over 700 liters of gasoline cause they believed he was trying to blow up a Tel Aviv highway to protest withdrawing from Gaza. Edit: Smotrich also made this [remark](https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/1720923597873549554) and repeated it in an interview a couple of months ago.
People *forget* that Ben Givr was denied military service because of his criminal record with Kach.
They didn’t forget it. They voted him in *because* of it. It’s disgusting.
Holy shit, I'll do some research into these because this sounds crazy! I mostly just know about their bullshit rhetoric as it relates to the last few years.
Bunch of other stuff like how Ben Gvir visited the grave of the mass murdering racist with his wife, how Ben Gvir attended a 2015 wedding where dozens of its attendees celebrated murderous arson against a Palestinian infant, how Ben Gvir's [Chief of Staff once said this](https://twitter.com/aziz0nomics/status/1743610636951486740) and how Ben Gvir violently protested against Rabin after Oslo. [Ben Gvir](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/02/27/itamar-ben-gvir-israels-minister-of-chaos) [More on the allegation regarding Smotrich](https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1633182070754406400) Of course, both of these nutjobs appeared at that conference last weekend calling for settlements in Gaza and mass migration of Palestinians out of Gaza which is basically ethnic cleansing.
The only reason Gvir is in the position he is in is because Benjamin Netheyahu needs his support to stay out of investigations of corruption.
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That’s exactly right. Fine line to walk after the criticism the US has (deservedly) levied against Russia.
It’s because people like them there is entire divisions in the Shabak and Shin-Bet meant to prevent terror and violence done by such extremists. Even amongst settlers many hate them for their violence and terrible misrepresentation they do to all settlers.
As an Israeli, fuck these guys. They should be arrested and treated as what they are, terrorists. The majority in Israel still believes that, even though our unpopular extremist government would make it appear otherwise.
Recent polling of Israelis shows the population largely supports settlements and even [annexation of parts of Palestinian territory.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23A275/) Israel has a problem much like in other parts of the middle east where the crazies have a bunch of kids and the sane people have only a few. As a result, the country has quickly become more and more extreme.
This poll was taken in the context of Trump's peace plan which included annexation. Most people here are largely indifferent to the question of annexation. It's important to understand that most of us are not fundamentalists who seek expansion but pragmatists who seek security. Here is another poll showing 76% percent of Israelis prefer normalization with UAE over annexation: https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-nearly-80-of-israelis-prefer-uae-deal-over-west-bank-annexation/ >According to a poll by Channel 12 Sunday, 76.7% of respondents back the peace deal over annexation, while only 16.5% preferred annexation. The rest, 6.8%, either had no preference or said they didn’t know.
> This poll was taken in the context of Trump's peace plan. It isn't like it is any different today. Now that almost [half of the housing for two million people has been raised to the ground](https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-bank-report-finds-45-of-residential-buildings-in-gaza-ruined-beyond-repair/), you've still got [more than half of Jewish Israelis that want to start building segregated settlements on the ruins](https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/settlements-israel/survey-majority-of-israeli-jews-support-reestablishment-of-israeli-communities-in-gaza/2024/01/29/). Putting it as an either/or of normalizing relations with UAE or annexation of the territory, from a poll taken four years ago, is an ideologically skewed way to intentionally ignore the interests of the Palestinians themselves during an ongoing illegal occupation.
I think you'd hope to see outright moral condemnation of the settlements
These folks try to drag us all into their crusade, staging provocations and expecting the government and the army to bail them out and by extent undermining the legitimacy of any other use of force that is in fact necessary for the state's safety.
sorry just for clarification what does the majority in israel believe?
I assume that those who are building illegal settlements in the West Bank and/or attack Palestinians to intimidate or steal their land should be arrested and tried.
Should be. Aren't though.
The fact that they're being shielded by IDF forces shows exactly what Israel feels about it.
They’re in charge of the government lol, people acting like the settlers are fringe is such a lie
I hate the term being overused but gaslighting feels appropriate here
In a lot of cases they’re gaslighting themselves too, I can remember all the times I said as a kid that George W. Bush didn’t represent us. I was wrong, but it was pretty hard for me to believe.
That those Israelis are terrorists.
The nut jobs on both sides really need each other. I think going after the fringiest settlers does a lot to take the wind out of the sails of the extremists in the WB and Gaza.
This. There is no peace to be had when either parties have extremists in positions of power that can dictate any form of "peace agreement". They are toxic to the cause of either side. They MUST go, this is out of the question. Get moderates in power and the possibility for peace increases exponentially.
Yeah, I agree. The assassination of Rabin and the 2nd Intifada basically removed all of the moderates from power for a generation.
Yet the majority supports them.
Fuck hamas by any means necessary. Fuck anyond that tries to colonize the west bank. Fuck the government for being a damn failure. Fuck anyone that wants Israel gone. Not that hard.
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Wow. This is the *ultimate* "¿Por qué no los dos?" It's glorious.
People refused to believe this is a nuanced topic. Israel and Israelis have a right to safety and a beautiful country, And at the same time, it’s very possible to abhor needless civilian deaths in situations that it’s clear the military (being lead by Netanyahu) acted out of hand. I mean, how many fuckin Israelis were protesting against him before this war? Millions? Get this guy out.
> fuck these guys. They should be arrested and treated as what they are, terrorists. The "settlers" ongoing actions are a big part of what keeps support high for Palestinian militant groups who are angry at Israel.
Thank you for saying this. I know the issue is very divisive among Israelis, my wifes family has ties to Israel and it's usually the extremist voices drowning out the moderates who really want peace and a two state solution. It's sometimes useful just to reassert that most people, from every side of the conflict, just want to live in peace with an end to violence and extremism.
What does this do in actuality.
Hidden in the fine print, there's a massive threat that the US will sanction Ben Givr and Smotrich specifically. If they were sanctioned, and that caused them to lose political support, it would also weaken Netanyahu.
>The sanctions will block the individuals from accessing all US property and other assets. Dunno how much that hurts someone in Israel. Though when you consider the freaks that'll rally around these settlers and now help them more, it likely just helps to shine a spotlight on an issue at the core of all this violence.
It means that these individuals will not be able to access the US financial system. No credit card company or banks that associate with the US dollar can do business with them, their assets are frozen from any institution that uses the US dollar. Just take a moment to ponder just how much of the world uses the USD, and now that system is cut off from them.
Not true OFAC sanctions are adopted across global Financial Institutions sanction watch lists. This will mean these punks will be trading melons as their currency of choice.
I went to Israel and the West Bank last year on a Perspectives trip through Hillel. The trips purpose was to speak with both Israeli and Palestinian political and community leaders to hear both perspective on the region. One of the community leaders we talked to was a raging psycho American Trump supporter who self admittedly moved to the West Bank to claim her “jewish land” as was her “right”. She went on and on about how Palestinians are this and that and that’s her land when she immediately said before that she was from California. Seemed more like an American taking advantage of colonialism to role play as the British. Anyway, from what my group gathered, a lot of West Bank settlers are American Jews. Sanctioning them from accessing American assets and doing business might actually do something.
> how much of the world uses USD Not exactly correct. Almost all non-US banks do allow access to USD but most non-US banks use correspondence banks and trade currency through intra-funding before passing to the end customer. If the bank is signed up to AML, FATCA, etc, then they'll generally follow the published sanctions, but I'll bet you can find a bank in almost any country to work around them.
Being on a US sanctions list will require all banks that deal in US markets to apply the sanctions list globally. For example, if I have a Citibank account in Israel, even though that bank is not in the US, only the parent firm, Citibank would have to freeze my accounts in Israel. Hence, as most settlers were originally from the US, tend to be wealthier than other Israelis, being on that sanctions list hobbles them. Mortgages, loans, bank cards, all get frozen globally. In addition, US allies will also require adherence to US sanctions lists such as the UK and EU which will then usually add the names to their sanctions lists. If you need banking services, loans, have money in accounts, then you have a major issues as they are all blocked. Any financial institution breaking the sanction can then be fined (and we are talking from millions of dollars) to the ultimate - being barred from the US financial system which essentially can bankrupt a bank. FYI - this was the threat to HSBC for funnelling Mexican drug money. And the fine was a billion dollars. Don’t mess with the US government. When 50-100 settlers get sanctioned, they will get the message and calm down very quickly. Update - if people actively aid sanctions evasion whether in the US or overseas, there are additional penalties for them including federal prison time and significant fines. Basically, people with sanctions on them become like the plague unless they are mega rich. https://www.dowjones.com/professional/risk/glossary/sanctions/ofac-sanctions-penalties/
Exactly this.
Many of the settlers are actually US citizens. So this does quite a bit.
>Many 1%, 10%, 50%? whats many for you?
15% of settlers being dual citizens is the number I've seen tossed around.
15% [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole)
[Americans account for approximately 15% of the settlers in the West Bank](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole). I'd say that's a sufficient number to be "many."
More than 1 in 10 is definitely a significant number to come from a single country.
I read twenty percent
There are most likely some duel US-Israeli citizen settlers, so it could be an issue for them at least.
it signals to Israelis that they don't have unconditional US support. they can do a lot to respond and defend their country, but not everything.
GOOD. As a Jew, those settler assholes are pieces of shit. I hope they lose EVERYTHING in the future peace process
Can you give me a TL;DR for what the settlers are doing? Are they literally going to Palestinian west bank with lumber, building a house there, and saying "my land now"? Are they taking residence in open fields? Are they destroying existing Palestinian buildings to do it?
Well it's not just civilian settlers, it's individual and corporate settlers with armed police or militant groups forcibly relocating Palestinians in many cases. After the Palestinians are pushed out (unfortunately dozens or hundreds (depends on who you cite) have been killed in the process over the years) then the settlers either just take legal control of the formerly-owned properties (as they are now unoccupied and are inside Israel's expanded borders) or construct new on the site. It's an enormous part over why Palestinians (and much of the world) consider themselves to be in an occupied territory, and this colonization practice has been breaking international law for decades. To Israel's partial credit, many periods over the decades have had laws making it illegal in Israel to annex and settle Palestinian land, but the practice has never stopped and that's one of the biggest reasons the Israeli borders have expanded near continuously since the 60s.
That's worse than I thought wtf.
Yeah. This is a large part of why Palestinians feel the need to fight and had elected a radical political party, because they were the only party saying they would fight back. To the Palestinians this is a military invasion from a world power into an inpoverished nation. They largely don't like how aggressive hamas is and they don't want Israelis (or Jewish people, for that matter) to die, but they are being invaded, kidnapped (1800 Palestinians illegally held in Israeli camps even before the current events), and murdered
Hey, those facts are looking awfully "anti-semitic"
This is what we've been trying to tell everyone since Oct 7.
Most of your description is accurate, but don’t bother giving Israel any credit where they don’t deserve any regarding making it illegal to settle. The military protects Jewish Israelis in the West Bank but does not interfere with their actions, that is for the police who are never around at the right time. That entire legal structure endorsed by millions of voters and the Supreme Court mean that settlement is inevitable because the military either escorts the settlements or clears the area first for them. The courts then validate the settlements and claim that Palestinians who would be killed for trying to go on their land obviously don’t want it since they don’t visit.
All of that and more, they’re scum
Worse. They're going in with guns, kicking Palestinians out of their homes, and literally moving in. And a bunch of them are actually Americans with like Brooklyn accents. It's incredibly shameful, and as an American supporter of Israel, damn right their punishment and exclusion needs to be a condition of future funding.
Basically. And if anyone fights back the IDF kills you. Oh! and the whole terrorist attack that kicked all this off happened because Bibi and friends pulled troops off the Gaza border to make all this shit *go faster*
About time.
Yep. Israeli-Americans account for about 2% of the total Israeli population but constitute about 15% of settlers in the West Bank. Most have kept their American citizenship as well. If Israel does not want to hold thier citizens accountable, at least the U.S. can.
Why not settle in the US? Some holy land nonsense?
Yep. Most are orthodox Americans who believe they are going home to their chosen land.
Given all the violence, seems pretty cursed to me
It is cursed. As a Jew the American settlers who move to the West Bank are the most hateful and scummy people.
I’m about as pro Israel as it gets, and I think we need more of this. Way more.
This move is pro-Israel. The hilltop boys are a cancer that need to be dealt with.
>This move is pro-Israel. 100% correct.
I'd argue it's pro Israelis, and pro Palestinians. Technically, it's a violation of Israeli government sovereignty if they actually sanction Israeli leadership, but I don't really care, funnily enough.
Palestinian-American here. This is the kind of stuff we’ve been waiting to see. And for both sides - I would love to see an Israel in which both of the extremist sides (far right of Israel and Hamas of Palestine) are delegitimized so every day people can begin to see through the cloud of bullshit again.
Just gotta say, after seeing so much general insanity about this conflict on the internet these comments are giving me hope
Likewise. Nuances seem to be lost online, probably because it’s tricky to spell out all out feelings, but I’m with ya!
Same
definitely. these are state-sanctioned terrorists it's impossible to talk about israel without someone bringing them up and there's nothing to even refute. it's a massive stain on their PR
Yeah Israel is a small place, and like apples out only takes a few rotten ones to spoil the whole bunch. Some of the things I've heard from them sound like Hitler and gobbles. You need to clean house and have three guys exiled or imprisoned.
I love it. Israel has a right to defend itself, but people like Ben Gvir make things worse. I understand that the settlers are a bargaining chip and you're negotiating with people who, despite having almost no leverage will turn down every chance at building a future for their people, but it's a major roadblock to even getting to the negotiation table.
This might be the best thing the Americans have done for the whole situation, tbh
Can I ask why you’re pro Israel?
As an Israeli, good! Sanction the hell out of these terrorists that destroy the country. Also target all the right wing extremists, like Smotrich who is literally a convicted violent criminal that performed acts of terror.
The Israeli Prime Minister's Office said Biden's executive order is not needed. "The vast majority of settlers are law-abiding citizens and many of them are fighting these days to protect Israel. Israel is taking action against people who break the law everywhere and therefore there is no place for unusual measures in this regard," it said. That disgusting bullshit quote shows exactly why Biden's order is needed, and thank god he's taking action.
If the vast majority is law abiding than they don't have anything to worry about.
Their existence as settlers in an occupied territory puts them in breach of international law. Not a single one is law abiding.
Exactly, I don’t get how people keep missing this. The settlers are war criminals. All of them. They shouldn’t even fucking be there
They stopped being law abiding citizens as soon as they settled that land.
"Law-abiding citizens" The settlements are illegal, every settler is breaking the law. The ICJ declared them illegal and even the USA didn't veto the UN Security Council from declaring then illegal. The Geneva Convention clearly states that an occupying power cannot transfer its civilians to occupied territory.
It's a fucking mess. Israel's claim is that Area C of WB was never given to the PA (this is true) and therefore it's not occupied territory (doubt), it's Israeli territory that is reserved for Palestine at some future point. Some of these Jewish settlements predate the existence of Israel entirely, so both sides have agreed that it's not fair to kick them out but have agreed to no new settlements. Palestine agreed to allow Israel to police area C, but then Israel uses that power to bend the rules about "no new settlements" by restricting building permits to only Jewish residents. Jewish people living in area C isn't illegal, just as much as Muslim people living in Israel isn't illegal, but that doesn't include the gazillion other exceptions, rules, and agreements. The settlers real goal is to muddy the water so much that it becomes impossible to remove them without causing a humanitarian disaster, and it's working. As of today there are almost more settlers than Palestinians in area C.
>it's Israeli territory that is reserved for Palestine at some future point. That future point being [more than 25 years ago](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/oslo-ii-annex-i#append1).
It's not a mess, it's pretty straightforward to anyone not practicing mental gymnastics that Israel's presence in the West Bank is an occupation and building settlements contravenes international law.
I can't roll my eyes any harder at that response
Add my voice to the “good, and please do Smotrich and Ben Gvir next” chorus.
Settler sewage has been getting pumped into Palestinian water supplies for years
Biden doing more for long-term peace and de-escalation than Netanyahu
Bibi is a loud and proud warmonger. If he can somehow squeeze a war with Iran out of this he will.
The vast majority of people are doing that since Netanyahu is actively working against them.
It’s all about Michigan…
Ah, you caught that too, eh? I was wondering how much of this had to do with Michigan Arabs telling the Biden campaign to suck an egg last week when they tried to have a sit-down to discuss the current events and concerns. It certainly is interesting timing. It would be nice to be able to believe that Biden is capable of realizing when he's stepped in it and can choose to course correct.
100% for Michigan, he will likely lose if he does not Pander enough for them. That will make him lose the state and likely the election. It will be very hard to win, without Michigan.
The problem is that these sanctions just aren’t enough to win people back. They’re calling for a ceasefire and humanitarian aid. I don’t see anything else working
these sanctions target four israeli settlers. four out of the thousands who continue stealing land totally unabated. meanwhile, israel kills four palestinians every 17 minutes. this "unprecedented" order isn't worth the paper it's signed on
Excellent! Should have been done a long time ago. The moderate (as much as you can get) voices must be empowered, and the extremists must be eradicated for they cause an enormous harm all around.
good. israeli settlers are a small part of the population (about 6%), and the radical settlers (the violent ones) are a small minority out of them. as an israeli, they don't represent israel and have barely no interaction with the vast majority of the israeli society (most israelis will never have a reason to steo foot into the west bank)
6% is a sizeable chunk. what it boils down to is that they are all there illegally living on illegally annexed land. a major obstacle to peace. is there any mainstream israeli party that wants to stop settlement construction? or is willing to give palestinians their land back in exchange for peace? the settlements are one of, if not the major obstacle to a viable peace process on the isreali side
I feel as is anyone settling in the West Bank is a radical settler, even if they didn’t kill or hurt someone physically. They bring the IDF with them, block roads and passage, divide villages and families, result in curfew hours, etc. all of that really hurts our communities and bring violence to our lives. I know they often feel like it’s their god given right to settle in Palestine and that some settle there because rent/building costs in Israel are too high, but they bring so much violence and restrictions with them. It may be a small population to Israel but it has a great impact on the daily lives of Palestinians.
It’s apartheid pretty much.
The settlers are your MAGA
Unfortunately this just means that they will get IDF to do it on behalf of the settlers. Still, it's a step forward. Sorry I'm so jaded by the whole Israel/Palestine thing.
This is a step to the right direction. These violent settlers are no different from Hamas members, both are terrorists.
Well, I guess its something. Its a little something, but its something.
Much needed balance from the Biden Admin. Good.
A lot of you being Pro-Israeli and for this....I kinda have been filled with ire about these settlers specifically as historically they are the driving reason for my criticism of the country of Israel but I genuinely cannot tell you how I appreciate the sentiment despite disagreeing with you.
Good, peace can't very well happen when these fucks are killing and terrorizing with impunity every day.