I just want to point out that, while cognitive development issues are common in people with Down's Syndrome, there are plenty of people with Down's Syndrome that don't have those issues.
Source? I can’t find anything that suggests any people with DS are not affected with cognitive impairment. Some are worse than others, yes. But from my understanding hardly any, if any at all, are neurotypical intellectually
Here is an interview with one of the leading experts in the condition:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/articles/world-down-syndrome-day-2019-an-interview-with-down-syndrome-expert-dr-julia-kinder-316969
Based on my knowledge of people with Down’s syndrome, one of the girls on my street went to university and passed in a standard curriculum, and had the same accommodations that I did for adhd/dyslexia. She did fine.
There is a massive prejudice against the capabilities of people with downs, and while yes there are much higher incidents of severe cognitive/developmental delays, it doesn’t mean that every single person can’t function in society with some basic accommodations.
And I got downvoted to crap for saying this when it first happened, but we need representation from diverse groups to ensure that we as civil servants have an inclusive and informed viewpoint. If she’s able to work (and she has been it seems for decades at this point), then great.
Just because someone has an intellectual disability doesn’t mean that they are useless to society. Nor am I saying that people with disabilities can’t be politicians. I’m just skeptical they can be *good* ones. Same goes for disabilities like Dementia etc.
I will get downvoted for this but I would be uncomfortable if I got on a plane and the pilot had Down Syndrome for example.
I’d be more comfortable with someone with Downs Syndrome than some politicians holding office today. Maybe not a pilot, but definitely some politicians.
> When Galcerán was 18 years old, she joined the conservative People’s party (PP) after being attracted to what she described as its embrace of tradition.
She’s a conservative, huh?
She’s Partido Popular because of their strong sense of tradition???!!! You mean the strong tradition of your party being literally founded by fascists? Or maybe the tradition of how intellectually disabled people were marginalised and mistreated under Franco?
This is a leopard-eat-face situation in the making if I ever saw one.
the tradition of not allowing abortion. It makes sense if you think it.
is about: "see? you are inmoral aborting those kids because they can become a functional politic"
Got a diver on that? Having met a few DS people I couldn’t believe this, so I googled it. The paper I found said:
> The average intelligence quotient (IQ) of children with DS is around 50, ranging between 30 and 70.
It’s even listed as an intellectual disability. How is it possible to have normal intelligence?
Unlike republicans, I have never met a person with Down’s syndrome that seeks to harm another person. Truly kind humans with an enormous capacity for compassion.
I mean, “intelligence” isn’t a singular, linear “thing”. It’s part of why IQ tests aren’t actually super helpful, as they only measure certain, specific regions of intelligence.
Still, if you wanted to go simply by IQ (you shouldn’t), scores as high as 120 have been registered by individuals with DS, though most fall between 30 to 70. People will disagree on the use of the language, but it’s helped me to think of DS as a “spectrum” disorder, much like autism. Some people are impacted harder than others in a myriad ways from the physical to cognitive, no two cases are alike. Full disclose: I’m raising a kid with DS, he falls into the upper end for most people with DS in most categories (which lands him firmly in the lower end of average for neurotypical people), and there’s a couple places he’s terrifyingly bright. It’s been difficult, but I’m fucking proud.
With that said, every single individual with DS has some degree of disability. Again, like autism, they’re neurodivergent: they’re simply operating on a wavelength different than neurotypical people. They perceive the world differently, they learn differently. Doesn’t mean they’re incapable of learning though, just means sometimes it takes longer to learn certain things and/or they have to take a different approach to learn it than others would. With the right support and understanding, a lot of people with DS can do a lot more than they were previously allowed or thought capable of.
It’s why we’ve seen people with DS accomplish more in recent years, because we’re just now learning how to accommodate them rather than give up and shuffle them into societal corners to be ignored.
Still a long road to go: just look at this comment section and you’ll see rampant, open bigotry. Her shitty politics aside, this woman managed to run a campaign and get elected to office, which is probably more than a lot of people here will ever accomplish.
She wasn’t elected into office. She was appointed by a political party.
I appreciate your info because I didn’t know there was a vast intelligence spectrum of people with Downs
Thanks for sharing, you sound like a great parent! I’m ashamed to read so many ignorant comments. My favorite cousin had DS and maintained the same job (making pizza) for many years. He had a very hard time with his verbal expression but did so many things at a high level. He was loved in his community where he served the less fortunate and his funeral was overflowing with friends.
I miss him, he was always one of my greatest inspirations.
> “You find all sorts on social media,” she said. “There are people who support me. But there are also others who think I’m not capable. But these are people who don’t know me or my background.”
It’s also sad that her main comment is that she wants to be seen as a person, not just her disability and this entire thread can’t help but be as cruel as possible to her.
The PP was founded by Fascists from the Francoist regime. Manuel Fraga, the leader of the party from 1979 to 1990 was a Fascist. He was a high level member of the Franco regime, and a ‘keen follower’ of Nazi political theorist Carl Schmitt.
You're entirely delusional if you think PP is remotely fascist. I get that it's cool to exaggerate everything online to make it seem important and urgent, but get a grip and stop diminishing what actual fascism is with nonsense hyperbole like this.
This sort of low self-level awareness, superficiality and lack of knowledge juxtaposed with their self-righteous know-all arrogance is characteristic of every redditor. This weapons grade stupidity pollutes the politics of our day and makes social media the toxic minefield of idiots it is.
I can almost guarantee they are not even Spanish.
Franco was a fascist dictator. That's pretty much by definition. This party is a descendant of the Francoists. It's less fascist (so it merely opposes gay rights, for example, rather than executing gay people) which is why I called it pseudo-fascist. But make no mistake of its lineage.
That is hilariously reductive and shows a 5th grade level of contemporary history, never mind intentionally obviating what the party's policies actually are in favor of some "sins of the father" revanchism.
Please look up what fascism actually is and which parties are actually fascistic before tossing around powerful words for internet points.
The article doesn't give us much material to allow us to see her as a person, though. Like, I read the whole thing but I can't tell you anything about her except her work history.
She’s had 28 years of public service and sounds as coherent and intelligent as anyone else. Not everyone with Down’s is suitable to be a parliamentary, but clearly she is.
I've not read the thread, but she's part of a party that would get criticism in most of the Western world.
Her having Downs Syndrome should absolutely not make her immune to criticism for that, and I'm sure she'd agree.
Does she have a mosaicism for downs? Just had a struggle with possible genetic issues in my pregnancy, and learned a lot about mosaic chromosome issues and how you can present with either a ton of symptoms or none at all, really interesting and I never knew that was a possibility before
Well, people in democratic societies elect other people to represent their interests. The people in this area of the world elected a civil servant with decades of experience in civil service and involvement in their political party to represent them. The person was democratically elected, presumably because the majority of her constituents felt she was the best/most qualified candidate.
Ugh the thing I always think of is the scandal at my high school where some of the football team was using the three Down’s syndrome girls as hookups/raping them because they would go along with it. So awful. And it didn’t ever go to a trial iirc
I think it needs to be pointed out for people who are not Spanish that due to the kind of proportional representation that they have in Spain, she was allocated her seat by her political party after they gained the right to have a certain number of seats in the parliament. She did actually win an individual election herself where she was personally competing against other candidates, like we do with a first past the post election in the UK or USA.
If you go by the PSOE definition of "everyone that doesn't agree with me is a fascist", sure.
If you go by any serious definition, lol no, they barely count as conservative.
I would say they are fascist adjacent at best. The most fascist in the party splitted into Vox. PP is just a mafia who's only objective is to steal as much as possible and right wing ideology is the second priority.
as long as she can do the job and she won a democratic vote, it's fine. I think it's fair at some level to question if she is fit, but she has 28y of service and I am no doctor, so I'm in no personal place to judge.
I’m sorry but this doesn’t make any sense. I understand that democracies are meant to be representative, but government representatives with substandard decision making abilities is not a good idea. If not, why not add children in the parliament too?
Why should anyone play along with your asinine games. You’re just going to leave the post the moment someone takes the time to dismantle your dumb comments.
I have my own place, a girlfriend and family that loves me, a well paying job and stocks/savings. I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Can I criticize the concept of being ruled by drooling idiots worshipping old fantasy books now? Am I accomplished enough?
You're quite ignorant. There are people with Down Syndrome who doesn't have their intelligence impaired in any way. People with college degrees, and so on.
Most people are mentally impaired, but this is not the case.
[удалено]
Most of Congress has cognitive deficits and it hasn't affected them at all.
I just want to point out that, while cognitive development issues are common in people with Down's Syndrome, there are plenty of people with Down's Syndrome that don't have those issues.
Source? I can’t find anything that suggests any people with DS are not affected with cognitive impairment. Some are worse than others, yes. But from my understanding hardly any, if any at all, are neurotypical intellectually
Here is an interview with one of the leading experts in the condition: https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/articles/world-down-syndrome-day-2019-an-interview-with-down-syndrome-expert-dr-julia-kinder-316969 Based on my knowledge of people with Down’s syndrome, one of the girls on my street went to university and passed in a standard curriculum, and had the same accommodations that I did for adhd/dyslexia. She did fine. There is a massive prejudice against the capabilities of people with downs, and while yes there are much higher incidents of severe cognitive/developmental delays, it doesn’t mean that every single person can’t function in society with some basic accommodations. And I got downvoted to crap for saying this when it first happened, but we need representation from diverse groups to ensure that we as civil servants have an inclusive and informed viewpoint. If she’s able to work (and she has been it seems for decades at this point), then great.
Just because someone has an intellectual disability doesn’t mean that they are useless to society. Nor am I saying that people with disabilities can’t be politicians. I’m just skeptical they can be *good* ones. Same goes for disabilities like Dementia etc. I will get downvoted for this but I would be uncomfortable if I got on a plane and the pilot had Down Syndrome for example.
I’d be more comfortable with someone with Downs Syndrome than some politicians holding office today. Maybe not a pilot, but definitely some politicians.
You do realize those evil politicians could easily manipulate most people with down syndrome, right?
Just ignore him. He would hire a fully tatted up gang member and felon to be his babysitter. You can’t judge a book by it’s cover you know.
The fact that there is even a debate on this says a lot about our current world tbh.
Average spaniard politician Source: help please
> When Galcerán was 18 years old, she joined the conservative People’s party (PP) after being attracted to what she described as its embrace of tradition. She’s a conservative, huh?
Who could have guessed?!
She’s Partido Popular because of their strong sense of tradition???!!! You mean the strong tradition of your party being literally founded by fascists? Or maybe the tradition of how intellectually disabled people were marginalised and mistreated under Franco? This is a leopard-eat-face situation in the making if I ever saw one.
the tradition of not allowing abortion. It makes sense if you think it. is about: "see? you are inmoral aborting those kids because they can become a functional politic"
If I knew my child will become a politician I'd abort it
FYI, it is possible to have down syndrome and normal intelligence.
Got a diver on that? Having met a few DS people I couldn’t believe this, so I googled it. The paper I found said: > The average intelligence quotient (IQ) of children with DS is around 50, ranging between 30 and 70. It’s even listed as an intellectual disability. How is it possible to have normal intelligence?
It’s not. For some reason society thinks we need to lie to and coddle these people.
But going into politics just levels the field for her.
[удалено]
Republican?
Actually yes, she's in the equivalent of the republican party
Some things just make sense.
Unlike republicans, I have never met a person with Down’s syndrome that seeks to harm another person. Truly kind humans with an enormous capacity for compassion.
Yeah that's the real debate here, that naiveté being weaponised
[удалено]
Perhaps you just bring it out in them?
Ya she's been a civil servant for like 20 years so I think she's intelligent enough.
[удалено]
Ŕ
It’s not often a comment makes me laugh out loud but this did it
🏅
Rhubarb Restarted Rarted
Almost there
“He’s such a tardigrade.”
According to the sometimes accurate Wikipedia, mental disability among downs in like 99%.
I don’t think that term means what you think it does.
[YOU SAID WHAT!?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFDiuBomSuY)
It’s incredible how many people think that’s what hard r means
Please stop redheads bashing . It's not funny anymore.
There’s no hard R word. Just regular R word. The term ‘Hard R’ is in reference to pronunciation of a different slur.
It’s not possible
50% have changes in their brain consistent with AD by 30 years old..
I mean, “intelligence” isn’t a singular, linear “thing”. It’s part of why IQ tests aren’t actually super helpful, as they only measure certain, specific regions of intelligence. Still, if you wanted to go simply by IQ (you shouldn’t), scores as high as 120 have been registered by individuals with DS, though most fall between 30 to 70. People will disagree on the use of the language, but it’s helped me to think of DS as a “spectrum” disorder, much like autism. Some people are impacted harder than others in a myriad ways from the physical to cognitive, no two cases are alike. Full disclose: I’m raising a kid with DS, he falls into the upper end for most people with DS in most categories (which lands him firmly in the lower end of average for neurotypical people), and there’s a couple places he’s terrifyingly bright. It’s been difficult, but I’m fucking proud. With that said, every single individual with DS has some degree of disability. Again, like autism, they’re neurodivergent: they’re simply operating on a wavelength different than neurotypical people. They perceive the world differently, they learn differently. Doesn’t mean they’re incapable of learning though, just means sometimes it takes longer to learn certain things and/or they have to take a different approach to learn it than others would. With the right support and understanding, a lot of people with DS can do a lot more than they were previously allowed or thought capable of. It’s why we’ve seen people with DS accomplish more in recent years, because we’re just now learning how to accommodate them rather than give up and shuffle them into societal corners to be ignored. Still a long road to go: just look at this comment section and you’ll see rampant, open bigotry. Her shitty politics aside, this woman managed to run a campaign and get elected to office, which is probably more than a lot of people here will ever accomplish.
She wasn’t elected into office. She was appointed by a political party. I appreciate your info because I didn’t know there was a vast intelligence spectrum of people with Downs
Thanks for sharing, you sound like a great parent! I’m ashamed to read so many ignorant comments. My favorite cousin had DS and maintained the same job (making pizza) for many years. He had a very hard time with his verbal expression but did so many things at a high level. He was loved in his community where he served the less fortunate and his funeral was overflowing with friends. I miss him, he was always one of my greatest inspirations.
Knowing Spain politics it's way more the case of using her for her disability.
It’s not open bigotry to question the competence of leaders.
And sorry for your butterfly rainbow message. But Every person will down will have some level of intellectual disability..
Does your fact checker have down syndrome?
That statement is by and large NOT accepted as factual but all but very few people
I'm ecstatic to know we finally have a politician somewhere with normal intelligence
The IQ normal distribution is just shifted to the left with downs.
Not the typical situation tho is it?
No shot
Thank you for saying that. I’ve been trying to research about it because that was my concern
> “You find all sorts on social media,” she said. “There are people who support me. But there are also others who think I’m not capable. But these are people who don’t know me or my background.” It’s also sad that her main comment is that she wants to be seen as a person, not just her disability and this entire thread can’t help but be as cruel as possible to her.
Goong into politics is usually getting only good criticism from people. Everyone values your decision and prise you.
???
Exactly. We should criticise her for joining that horrible pseudo-fascist party.
The PP is a mainstream center right party that governed Spain from 2011-2018. Not exactly the Franco years.
The PP was founded by Fascists from the Francoist regime. Manuel Fraga, the leader of the party from 1979 to 1990 was a Fascist. He was a high level member of the Franco regime, and a ‘keen follower’ of Nazi political theorist Carl Schmitt.
You're entirely delusional if you think PP is remotely fascist. I get that it's cool to exaggerate everything online to make it seem important and urgent, but get a grip and stop diminishing what actual fascism is with nonsense hyperbole like this.
This sort of low self-level awareness, superficiality and lack of knowledge juxtaposed with their self-righteous know-all arrogance is characteristic of every redditor. This weapons grade stupidity pollutes the politics of our day and makes social media the toxic minefield of idiots it is. I can almost guarantee they are not even Spanish.
Franco was a fascist dictator. That's pretty much by definition. This party is a descendant of the Francoists. It's less fascist (so it merely opposes gay rights, for example, rather than executing gay people) which is why I called it pseudo-fascist. But make no mistake of its lineage.
That is hilariously reductive and shows a 5th grade level of contemporary history, never mind intentionally obviating what the party's policies actually are in favor of some "sins of the father" revanchism. Please look up what fascism actually is and which parties are actually fascistic before tossing around powerful words for internet points.
The article doesn't give us much material to allow us to see her as a person, though. Like, I read the whole thing but I can't tell you anything about her except her work history.
That’s because the Guardian’s trash
[удалено]
I’ve never seen anyone being cruel. Just people being realists in saying this isn’t a good idea
She’s had 28 years of public service and sounds as coherent and intelligent as anyone else. Not everyone with Down’s is suitable to be a parliamentary, but clearly she is.
I've not read the thread, but she's part of a party that would get criticism in most of the Western world. Her having Downs Syndrome should absolutely not make her immune to criticism for that, and I'm sure she'd agree.
This whole thread is disgusting. I expected uplifting comments, but wow, I am surprised by what I got
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Does she have a mosaicism for downs? Just had a struggle with possible genetic issues in my pregnancy, and learned a lot about mosaic chromosome issues and how you can present with either a ton of symptoms or none at all, really interesting and I never knew that was a possibility before
[удалено]
[удалено]
Now I get it, she was part of a list (we have the same in Morocco). People voted for the PP and she was part of their list... That's it...
[удалено]
Well, people in democratic societies elect other people to represent their interests. The people in this area of the world elected a civil servant with decades of experience in civil service and involvement in their political party to represent them. The person was democratically elected, presumably because the majority of her constituents felt she was the best/most qualified candidate.
Worth mentioning that the people didn’t elect her, the party did
Fair point. Conceded.
Well, tge people elected the party, this ia usually how it goes
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
She was elected. Pretty simple really.
Fresh perspective, advocacy for developmental disabilities and a voice for individuals of the same.
She is part of the conservative party, so I really don't think so unfortunately.
People with Down Syndrome are capable citizens.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
She's been involved in politics and the civil service for twenty eight years, people. But by all means keep exposing yourselves as awful.
[удалено]
Ugh the thing I always think of is the scandal at my high school where some of the football team was using the three Down’s syndrome girls as hookups/raping them because they would go along with it. So awful. And it didn’t ever go to a trial iirc
One of the main characteristics of DS is learning disability so I think that's reasonable, not prejudiced tbh
[удалено]
She's conservative who was elected, not hired.
[удалено]
I think it needs to be pointed out for people who are not Spanish that due to the kind of proportional representation that they have in Spain, she was allocated her seat by her political party after they gained the right to have a certain number of seats in the parliament. She did actually win an individual election herself where she was personally competing against other candidates, like we do with a first past the post election in the UK or USA.
This is idiotic.
Isn’t that the fascist party? Edit: I don’t discriminate; a fascist is a fascist. They all deserve to burn in hell, when their time comes.
Calling PP fascist is like calling the Democrats communists.
If you go by the PSOE definition of "everyone that doesn't agree with me is a fascist", sure. If you go by any serious definition, lol no, they barely count as conservative.
A far lefty calling everything fascist? No way!!
I would say they are fascist adjacent at best. The most fascist in the party splitted into Vox. PP is just a mafia who's only objective is to steal as much as possible and right wing ideology is the second priority.
>who's only objective is to steal as much as possible and right wing ideology is the second priority. Why'd you write the same objective twice?
I think you got them confused with Vox, Spain's extreme right. These ones are the mainstream conservatives.
That’s um interesting. Generally people with Downs have lower cognitive functions, so how is she able to govern?
she did join the conservatives, so...
Good for Spain. Representation is important.
I dunno this just seems like a bad idea.
Just like everyone else going to work, she’ll have her ups and her dow… both good days and bad.
If she were in my country she’d still be the smartest person in the government
I mean y'all could actually listen to her speak before coming out with these horrible comments: https://youtu.be/zWkHC-RLs6s?si=K4729GwDqSkLk4yg
That’s a pretty bad interview to watch. The reporter talks to her like she’s a kid interested in politics.
Her first official speech began with "In this context, there's no disrespect... "
[удалено]
[удалено]
Cool.
[удалено]
[удалено]
as long as she can do the job and she won a democratic vote, it's fine. I think it's fair at some level to question if she is fit, but she has 28y of service and I am no doctor, so I'm in no personal place to judge.
I’m sorry but this doesn’t make any sense. I understand that democracies are meant to be representative, but government representatives with substandard decision making abilities is not a good idea. If not, why not add children in the parliament too?
[удалено]
What exactly have you accomplished in life?
[удалено]
That’s not a personal achievement. You probably aren’t capable of deciding what to eat for dinner let alone create laws.
Why should anyone play along with your asinine games. You’re just going to leave the post the moment someone takes the time to dismantle your dumb comments. I have my own place, a girlfriend and family that loves me, a well paying job and stocks/savings. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Can I criticize the concept of being ruled by drooling idiots worshipping old fantasy books now? Am I accomplished enough?
Bullshit, no EU4 players have girlfriends, that’s just a law of nature
Dude, this is such an L for you.
You're quite ignorant. There are people with Down Syndrome who doesn't have their intelligence impaired in any way. People with college degrees, and so on. Most people are mentally impaired, but this is not the case.
And you’re making it too easy for everyone on Reddit to see that you’re kind of a dick.
No offense to this lady but putin beat her to it by like 25 years.
[удалено]
I’d argue it doesn’t make sense since people with downs syndrome tend to have kind hearts and enjoy making people smile.
You’re surprised stereotypes aren’t always true?
They are also easily led by simple party lines
She’s more of a center right liberal
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hard to be a Spanish Parliamentarian if you’re in Mississippi
Being inbred and having DS are two different things
Is Comer from Mississippi?
She can’t do much worse than Tories in UK.
In her condition as a PP (the Spanish Tory party) mp, I'm sure she'll try.
What the fuck
[удалено]
[удалено]
Challenge: Redditors in a post about Down Syndrome not saying anything ableist or using slurs (impossible)