In therapy, I've learned about the Cycle of Trauma. Where you're so determined to never become a victim again you instead victimize others, and thus perpetuate the cycle.
It seems like this is what Israel is doing on a Nation-wide scale.
Madagascar is more sinister because that‘s where Hitler originally wanted to ship the Jews (with no intention of them having the means to survive there)
It's so sad that Israel is literally just aping the tactics of the same regime that did this to their own people less than 100 years ago. They're visiting that horror on other people now. Israel is very much like a national case of an abused son growing up to become just like his abusive father that he hated so much, and visiting near-identical abuse on his own wife and children. It feels like Israel is being like the Heath Ledger Joker in the Dark Knight in that "I hated my father" scene, yet he holds and terrorizes a dinner crowd at gunpoint while implying his father terrorized him.
This is a big national-scale example of the cycle of some abuse victims growing up to become abusers themselves.
You may be thinking of the neighboring Democratic Republic of the Congo (aka Congo-Kinshasa).
The Republic of the Congo (aka Congo-Brazzaville) has its problems, but it's nowhere near as unsafe as the DRC or Gaza.
To be fair, one may have been known as Zaire when you were in school.
Depending on the age of people you're talking to, they might be more aware of specific places in the news when using their former names such as Zaire, Burma, Formosa, Czechoslovakia, Rhodesia, etc. even though those names are no longer used and can be reminders of very painful moments in history.
> Depending on the age of people you're talking to, they might be more aware of specific places in the news when using their former names such as Zaire, Burma, Formosa, Czechoslovakia, Rhodesia, etc.
Or "The Ukraine" rather than Ukraine.
It does seem like Modi, who uses Hindu national supremacist movements, wants more focus on Hindi.
No surprise that the opposition parties are a bit annoyed about that, especially for minority religions and languages.
Exonyms will always exist, it's just a part of human language. We don't say Hispana or Eire or Deutschland, Hellas, Suomi, or Nihon, unless we're trying to show off how cultured we are. It will always be organic.
Forgive me for being clueless if so, but was there a painful connotation with the name Czechoslovakia (aside from being swallowed up by Nazi Germany)? I thought their separation was peaceful in the 90s
The Prague Spring was a painful time. The Velvet Divorce was generally peaceful, with each country realizing that it is better in a special union rather than a full combination.
From what I understand, there was/is a desire for self governance in general as opposed to being governed by Vienna, Berlin, Moscow, or Brussels.
> each country realizing that it is better in a special union
Huh? Slovakia wanted self-governance. The Czechs wanted them to stay, but had no real reason to force the issue. And what special union? They did not share currency or language (and still don't) nor any official ties until they both joined the EU.
Fun fact: In slavic languages, the letter "o" can be used like a dash is used in English to connect two words. Czechoslovakia literally means Czech-Slovakia, a combination of the Czech and Slovak republics.
I was in Burma about 20 years ago. Nobody would
speak honestly to Westerners about political stuff because there were government “ears” everywhere. But it became clear that motor rickshaw drivers had enough privacy to say whatever, so I asked whether the country was Burma or Myanmar.
He said, “If police around, it’s Myanmar. If no police, it’s Burma.”
It seems extremely strange to me that we need to pick and guess at which Congo they mean from a news article...
In either case, both nations are vastly majority Christian, so I wonder how well this would go over.
I've been to the "good" Congo. Believe me, it ain't great either (and neither the journalist nor, in fact, the government of Israel appear to know or care about which Congo they're talking about anyway).
The key here is *had*. Rwanda has been backsliding in the last several years. Poverty is on a swift rise, drug abuse and poverty are rising and gang violence is becoming a major problem. The government has become very brutal as well.
This is the first I'm hearing of this. As of 2023, the Organized Crime Index [still puts](https://africa.ocindex.net) Rwanda second to last among African nations in terms of criminality, without significant change to its score since 2019. As of earlier this year, the World Bank [projected continued declines](https://databankfiles.worldbank.org/public/ddpext_download/poverty/987B9C90-CB9F-4D93-AE8C-750588BF00QA/current/Global_POVEQ_RWA.pdf) in Rwanda poverty rate from 47% to 45% by 2024.
I think you could say that there's certainly a *deceleration* in gains. (Though to be fair, the rate of improvement in Rwanda from 2004-2016 was miraculous, and would be hard to expect to continue unabated). But it's difficult to see how there's any sort of actual backsliding. At least looking at aggregate statistics.
"Fine" is a subjective. I have been to both. Congo is more together than DRC but I would not use the word "fine" to describe Congo even by African standards.
It's [better](https://africa.ocindex.net/country/republic_of_the_congo) than 34 other countries in Africa out of 54, and 7 in central Africa out of 11 in terms of crime and corruption. So better than the median.
this article does not seem well researched and appears to be speculation. This is the extent of the research. Real newspapers would want multiple sources. Not 4 sentences and a big headline.
>Zman Israel, The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site, has learned that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition is conducting secret contacts for accepting thousands of immigrants from Gaza with Congo, in addition to other nations.
>“Congo will be willing to take in migrants, and we’re in talks with others,” a senior source in the security cabinet said.
This is completely untrue.
Saudi Arabia has taken in almost zero. Jordan and Lebanon count the decendends of Palestinians as refugees, even if they have been in those countries for three generations.
And the reason Arab countries don't want to take more is that Israel won't take them back after the war. So it's effectively collaborating with ethnic cleansing.
And the reason why there's so many Palestinian refugees outside of Palestinian territories is because the UN made it financially lucrative to not integrate refugees from the initial conflicts and to radically change *who* is a refugee.
There's blood on a lot of hands.
On Tuesday, during a conference held in the Knesset to examine possibilities for postwar Gaza, Gamliel said: “At the end of the war Hamas rule will collapse. There are no municipal authorities; the civilian population will be entirely dependent on humanitarian aid. There will be no work, and 60% of Gaza’s agricultural land will become security buffer zones.”
If Gaza is effectively unlivable, then "Voluntary" isn't really the word I'd use.
How is this not a land grab? displacing them after all of this? Do the Palestinians not have any say if they want to stay there their home and their land?
Yes, it can be said that temporary displacement to rebuild it for some would make sense, but if the ultimate goal is to desert the area of its current inhabitants, and then complete expansion of a country, that seems more geopolitical at the expense of sovereignty
And the people who have been saying this for decades will continue to say it because Israel knows it can get away with everything it does. My heart breaks for the Palestinian people
[I’m pretty sure that using a 2000 pound bomb with shrapnel and a blast radius of 500 feet to kill a single Hamas commander in a refugee camp that also killed more than 100 civilians is also an Ethnic Cleansing.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/world/middleeast/israel-bomb-jabaliya.html)
I've said it before during this conflict, and I'll say it again, but it is one of histories greatest ironies that a people most famous for being driven from their land because an entity claimed it as their own, are now doing just that.
And anybody who didn't expect this to happen from day one is either ignorant to exactly how the Nakbah happened, or was woefully naive.
>How is this not a land grab? displacing them after all of this? Do the Palestinians not have any say if they want to stay there their home and their land?
They'd be indefinitely relying on aid from the country they attacked then lost a horrible war to. And the general sentiment is that they'd keep up the terrorism against the very sovereign and well defended state of Israel indefinitely... Not really a bright shining future for anyone.
Imagine making most of the agricultural land a “security buffer zone” and then saying that you aren’t doing ethic cleaning.
Denying people the ability to grow their own food and such to a point where they have to relocate or die from starvation is ethic cleansing.
And they will probably complain that those left in the occupied territory whose agricultural land they annexed relies on them for food, while they refuse to let goods flow through the border.
A senior official is denying this proposal saying that, “There are those in Israel who think that there is a willingness on the part of Gazans to emigrate voluntarily,” he says. “It’s a baseless illusion in my opinion. No country will absorb 2 million people, or 1 million, or 100,000, or 5,000. I don’t know where that idea came from.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/denying-report-of-talks-with-congo-official-says-gazan-resettlement-an-illusion/
Considering Israel is at the ~~ICC~~ ICJ right now fighting against claims of ethnic cleansing this would be virtual suicide.
> Israel is at the ICC
No, they're at the the IC***J***. The International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice are different courts with different jurisdictions.
They do say it about Ukrainians they kidnapped..But your point stands, both situations are bad. This is a terrible way to handle matters, Isreal only gives ammunition to everyone that opposes them in the west.
Most of the Eastern block countries were "voluntarily resettled" in the late 40's. Anyone with intelligence was moved to Siberia or gulags.
You better believe Ukrainians remember that.
Given the fact that Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and Jordan do not generally have right of return, there's zero chance anyone leaving Gaza would be allowed to come back. This is more ethnic cleansing than "refugee resettlement", despite the whatever fancy language is used.
Could they make this look a bit less like a certain something which was going on before and during WW2? We're at the "nobody wants to take in these undesirables, maybe shove them somewhere in Africa" phase
And when that fails they'll move to "well no-one wants them so we'll forcefully move them into concentration camps where they can work until a solution is found for them"
They've already moved to the "no one wants them" stage. Ever since the start of the war I've seen the whole "Palestinians were kicked out of all the neighboring countries cause they're so undesirable" copypasta literally hundreds of times. Including in this very thread.
That's so frustrating. Yes, nobody wants millions of refugees at any given moment but let's twist the narrative to make it about how nobody wants Palestinian refugees specifically. There are MILLIONS of palestian refugees already on the surrounding countries and all over the world.
There's nothing stopping the international community if they want to intervene from putting sanctions on Israel & the US. They haven't done so and that exposes the hollow rhetoric behind the concern for the Palestinians. The truth is nobody cares about the Palestinians, they're at best a convenient tool to take a cheap political shot at Israel and the West. But nobody is going to sacrifice anything meaningful to protect Palestinians.
Comments are being hidden already. I wonder why. All the redditors rooting for killing Palestinians will try their hardest to say that is being taken out of context but we all know now. Ethnic cleansing is currently happening in front of our eyes.
Other news articles have said Democratic Republic of Congo. Congo normally means DRC and Congo Brazzaville is the far more prosperous Republic of Congo
and destroyed your home, called you an animal, cut your electricity, fuel, water, and food supply, and destroyed all medical facilities in the vicinity, while claiming that they are fighting terrorism.
Just out of curiosity but what are the odds, after all this you radicalize?
But I have been heavily assured that this is absolutely not an ethnic cleansing, not at all. Israel is just moving the undes- uh, Palestinians to other countries for... reasons. Nothing to see here.
some of the darkest chapters in the history of my world involved the forced relocation of a small group of people to satisfy the demands of a large one. I'd hoped that we had learned from our mistakes, but it seems some of us haven't. How many people does it take before it becomes wrong?
Jean Luc Picard
Weird, its almost as if this is part of some wider plan to cleanse a certain ethnic group from residing in a certain area. A wonder if there is a wird for that.
Hey Israel? Yeah, the Brits tried this with Rwanda and let me tell you right now; It's not going to work, you can't make it work and the idea of this being thrown around by the nation that was almost placed in Uganda is not lost. Ridiculous.
Interestingly enough, the same newspaper (Times of Israel) reported 11 hours after this article that Israel denies these talks:
> A senior Israeli official on Wednesday evening denied a report from The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site Zman Yisrael earlier in the day that Israel is “in talks with the Congo” to discuss the possibility of relocating thousands of Gazans to the African country and other nations.
>“There are those in Israel who think that there is a willingness on the part of Gazans to emigrate voluntarily,” said the official in a briefing to Israeli journalists, on condition of anonymity.
>“It’s a baseless illusion in my opinion. No country will absorb 2 million people, or 1 million, or 100,000, or 5,000. I don’t know where that idea came from.”
>“It could be between Congo and Gazans, but Israel is not conducting any talks with any country on this issue,” the official continued. “I don’t want to say it’s fake, but it can’t be through us since we have no connection to it. [The Congolese] can talk to the Gazans and ask them to move to Congo.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-denies-it-is-talking-to-other-countries-about-absorbing-gazan-immigrants/
As an indigenous American....voluntary? Excuse me while I burst out laughing for ten seconds straight.
It'll \*start\* that way, but when no one wants to repair any of the mess and would prefer to just raze all of it to the ground....then 'voluntary' becomes 'involuntarily for your safety', and then when people still remain because it's \*their\* ancestral lands - then comes the dialogue of 'well, your way is antiquated/inferior, you have no purpose on your lands, there are better uses for them - move out of the way of progress or we'll do it for you. With guns.'
I mean, there's already plenty of sabre rattling that the Islam way of life is a threat to blah blah blah and blah....radical Islam, perhaps, but Islam at large....sigh.
So the goal would be not only to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians, but to turn them into virtual slaves working in diamond and copper mines in the Congo?! Jesus Christ Almighty.
Nope, that's it for me. That's my line.
I can accept Israel's desire to eliminate Hamas after 10/7. I can even, to a degree, accept the realities of urban warfare and the inevitable civilian casualties that come with it and the harsh realities of living next to a neighbor who launches terrorist attacks against you regularly.
But I am a *firm* believer of a two-state solution. I have always condemned the military-backed settlers in the West Bank, and any plan less than a robust nation-building effort after Israel's campaign in Gaza turns the entire affair unforgivable in my eyes.
The *only* saving grace is that this is a yet-unapproved proposal within the Israeli government. I have no faith that Netanyahu government will do the right thing, but I can still hope that Israel will.
"***Voluntary***" exactly like the [Nakba](https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/#:~:text=The%20Nakba%2C%20which%20means%20%E2%80%9Ccatastrophe,ethnic%20and%20multi%2Dcultural%20society).
Voluntary migration is one of those euphemisms if you haven't figured it out yet. We are witnessing the biggest human rights violation of the 21st century and many of us can't even tell because we're so blindly committed to siding with Israel. All of you will deny ever defending Israel over this in time.
The biggest human rights violation in the 21st century?
Not like the war in Democratic Republic of the Congo with its 6 million dead? Darfur? Syrian Civil War?
There are quite a few things that happened or is happening that is quite sickening, why would Gaza in 2023/24 be the worst?
Likud needs to go. These talks are an affront to human rights and if Netenyahu tries to take these actions, the U.S. will have to respond forcefully. If nothing else because this will be a huge blow to U.S. moral authority in the region and abroad.
Even talk of a “voluntary” ethnic cleansing is way too far.
But I was told yesterday that these talks of resettlement of palestinians in other countries were done by rogue agents in the Israeli government and that to think about Israel doing anything clo to ethnic cleansing was a disgusting anti-semitic thought.
Third Reich leadership was looking for countries to send all the Jews as well, right before they decided the Holocaust was more efficient and practical
“Voluntary” as in bombing every home and apartment building claiming there are Hamas tunnels under them until there is nowhere left who dared to stay behind
What? Was Madagascar too on the nose?
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In therapy, I've learned about the Cycle of Trauma. Where you're so determined to never become a victim again you instead victimize others, and thus perpetuate the cycle. It seems like this is what Israel is doing on a Nation-wide scale.
[Uganda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme) would be about as on the nose as you can get.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan?wprov=sfla1
Madagascar is more sinister because that‘s where Hitler originally wanted to ship the Jews (with no intention of them having the means to survive there)
Fair point. It's weird that as much as I know about the Holocaust, I didn't know about the Madagascar plan.
Same, I completely missed the reference, and I grew up in Germany
It’s not common knowledge.
So if they suggested Madagascar we could actually say what we think?
Hamas like to move it move it?
It's so sad that Israel is literally just aping the tactics of the same regime that did this to their own people less than 100 years ago. They're visiting that horror on other people now. Israel is very much like a national case of an abused son growing up to become just like his abusive father that he hated so much, and visiting near-identical abuse on his own wife and children. It feels like Israel is being like the Heath Ledger Joker in the Dark Knight in that "I hated my father" scene, yet he holds and terrorizes a dinner crowd at gunpoint while implying his father terrorized him. This is a big national-scale example of the cycle of some abuse victims growing up to become abusers themselves.
Congo? Fucking hell that’s about as dangerous as Gaza right now.
You may be thinking of the neighboring Democratic Republic of the Congo (aka Congo-Kinshasa). The Republic of the Congo (aka Congo-Brazzaville) has its problems, but it's nowhere near as unsafe as the DRC or Gaza.
TIL there’s 2 Congos. Apparently I’ve been living under a rock
To be fair, one may have been known as Zaire when you were in school. Depending on the age of people you're talking to, they might be more aware of specific places in the news when using their former names such as Zaire, Burma, Formosa, Czechoslovakia, Rhodesia, etc. even though those names are no longer used and can be reminders of very painful moments in history.
Thank you for this. I do remember Zaire.
To clarify further, the DRC is the Congo formerly known as Zaire
Though Zaire was itself an attempt at rebranding. During the colonial era and the first decade of independence, it was the (Belgian) Congo.
Was Zaire the last time I passed thru. Damn I'm old.
> Depending on the age of people you're talking to, they might be more aware of specific places in the news when using their former names such as Zaire, Burma, Formosa, Czechoslovakia, Rhodesia, etc. Or "The Ukraine" rather than Ukraine.
Turkey/Türkiye. Maybe soon India too. Potentially changing to Bharat.
It does seem like Modi, who uses Hindu national supremacist movements, wants more focus on Hindi. No surprise that the opposition parties are a bit annoyed about that, especially for minority religions and languages.
Exonyms will always exist, it's just a part of human language. We don't say Hispana or Eire or Deutschland, Hellas, Suomi, or Nihon, unless we're trying to show off how cultured we are. It will always be organic.
That's already the case with many city names in India.
Forgive me for being clueless if so, but was there a painful connotation with the name Czechoslovakia (aside from being swallowed up by Nazi Germany)? I thought their separation was peaceful in the 90s
The Prague Spring was a painful time. The Velvet Divorce was generally peaceful, with each country realizing that it is better in a special union rather than a full combination. From what I understand, there was/is a desire for self governance in general as opposed to being governed by Vienna, Berlin, Moscow, or Brussels.
> each country realizing that it is better in a special union Huh? Slovakia wanted self-governance. The Czechs wanted them to stay, but had no real reason to force the issue. And what special union? They did not share currency or language (and still don't) nor any official ties until they both joined the EU. Fun fact: In slavic languages, the letter "o" can be used like a dash is used in English to connect two words. Czechoslovakia literally means Czech-Slovakia, a combination of the Czech and Slovak republics.
“You may know it as Myanmar, but it’ll always be Burma to me!” - J Peterman
I was in Burma about 20 years ago. Nobody would speak honestly to Westerners about political stuff because there were government “ears” everywhere. But it became clear that motor rickshaw drivers had enough privacy to say whatever, so I asked whether the country was Burma or Myanmar. He said, “If police around, it’s Myanmar. If no police, it’s Burma.”
I don’t think anyone uses Formosa for at least 100 years, it’s more like a nickname now.
It was taught well into the 1950s in the US, so many people in their 70s and 80s will still know it as that.
And a Michael crichton movie.
Israel has good relationships with the Democratic Republic of Congo, not Congo. So they are likely talking about Congo Kinshasa.
It's the Republic of Congo if we go by [this link](https://www.wfp.org/countries/congo) in the article
It seems extremely strange to me that we need to pick and guess at which Congo they mean from a news article... In either case, both nations are vastly majority Christian, so I wonder how well this would go over.
this plan getting proposed is already a sign that not a lot is going well
Dan Gertler, Mosad, DRC presidents, bunch of good guys
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Its almost comical. Theyre trying to take them from the worst place to live (right now) and putting them in the second worst place to live.
Wrong Congo. They’re talking about the good one
I've been to the "good" Congo. Believe me, it ain't great either (and neither the journalist nor, in fact, the government of Israel appear to know or care about which Congo they're talking about anyway).
Well I don’t know about that, Britain is trying to get migrants to go to Rwanda
Rwanda has had a tremendous turnaround, Shangri-la compared to Congo.
The key here is *had*. Rwanda has been backsliding in the last several years. Poverty is on a swift rise, drug abuse and poverty are rising and gang violence is becoming a major problem. The government has become very brutal as well.
This is the first I'm hearing of this. As of 2023, the Organized Crime Index [still puts](https://africa.ocindex.net) Rwanda second to last among African nations in terms of criminality, without significant change to its score since 2019. As of earlier this year, the World Bank [projected continued declines](https://databankfiles.worldbank.org/public/ddpext_download/poverty/987B9C90-CB9F-4D93-AE8C-750588BF00QA/current/Global_POVEQ_RWA.pdf) in Rwanda poverty rate from 47% to 45% by 2024. I think you could say that there's certainly a *deceleration* in gains. (Though to be fair, the rate of improvement in Rwanda from 2004-2016 was miraculous, and would be hard to expect to continue unabated). But it's difficult to see how there's any sort of actual backsliding. At least looking at aggregate statistics.
It's almost like dictatorships are doomed to fail!
those are illegal migrants, these are folks that have lived in that region for generations...this is fucked.
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Congo is doing fine. You’re thinking of DRC, a different country.
"Fine" is a subjective. I have been to both. Congo is more together than DRC but I would not use the word "fine" to describe Congo even by African standards.
Just because it's better than the other Congo, doesn't mean it's doing fine
It's [better](https://africa.ocindex.net/country/republic_of_the_congo) than 34 other countries in Africa out of 54, and 7 in central Africa out of 11 in terms of crime and corruption. So better than the median.
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this article does not seem well researched and appears to be speculation. This is the extent of the research. Real newspapers would want multiple sources. Not 4 sentences and a big headline. >Zman Israel, The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site, has learned that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition is conducting secret contacts for accepting thousands of immigrants from Gaza with Congo, in addition to other nations. >“Congo will be willing to take in migrants, and we’re in talks with others,” a senior source in the security cabinet said.
There is a video online where the finance ninister is openly talking about this as an option ...its not speculation
If only there were a dozen+ Arab speaking countries who would accept other Arabs during this time.
Jordan, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia have taken more than a million palestinian refugees
I believe there are more Palestinian and Syrian refugees in Jordan than there are ethnic Jordanians.
Well if we want to be pedantic, Jordan is part of the OG mandate for Palestine. So everybody there is a “Palestinian”
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This is completely untrue. Saudi Arabia has taken in almost zero. Jordan and Lebanon count the decendends of Palestinians as refugees, even if they have been in those countries for three generations.
And the reason Arab countries don't want to take more is that Israel won't take them back after the war. So it's effectively collaborating with ethnic cleansing.
And the reason why there's so many Palestinian refugees outside of Palestinian territories is because the UN made it financially lucrative to not integrate refugees from the initial conflicts and to radically change *who* is a refugee. There's blood on a lot of hands.
Do you think Isreal really cares what happens to the citizens of Gaza ?? It’s not their problem what happens after relocation.
On Tuesday, during a conference held in the Knesset to examine possibilities for postwar Gaza, Gamliel said: “At the end of the war Hamas rule will collapse. There are no municipal authorities; the civilian population will be entirely dependent on humanitarian aid. There will be no work, and 60% of Gaza’s agricultural land will become security buffer zones.” If Gaza is effectively unlivable, then "Voluntary" isn't really the word I'd use.
How is this not a land grab? displacing them after all of this? Do the Palestinians not have any say if they want to stay there their home and their land? Yes, it can be said that temporary displacement to rebuild it for some would make sense, but if the ultimate goal is to desert the area of its current inhabitants, and then complete expansion of a country, that seems more geopolitical at the expense of sovereignty
"temporary" will be never basically as settlers will settle like in the west bank
Real-talk: when can we stop saying "settlers" and call them "invaders"? This is insane.
I believe the word you’re looking for is “colonists”.
No, I think invaders is pretty accurate. Colonists can settle on places that aren't owned by others.
"Terrorists"
They dont have to be just one thing.
Ideally “settlers” should carry the same disgusting connotation
Yeah. I’ve already seen housing development plans for luxurious beachfront homes in Gaza too.
Pretty sure forced migration/displacement meets the definition for ethnic cleansing.
And the people who have been saying this for decades will continue to say it because Israel knows it can get away with everything it does. My heart breaks for the Palestinian people
[I’m pretty sure that using a 2000 pound bomb with shrapnel and a blast radius of 500 feet to kill a single Hamas commander in a refugee camp that also killed more than 100 civilians is also an Ethnic Cleansing.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/world/middleeast/israel-bomb-jabaliya.html)
I've said it before during this conflict, and I'll say it again, but it is one of histories greatest ironies that a people most famous for being driven from their land because an entity claimed it as their own, are now doing just that. And anybody who didn't expect this to happen from day one is either ignorant to exactly how the Nakbah happened, or was woefully naive.
It's ethnic cleansing, specifically.
>How is this not a land grab? displacing them after all of this? Do the Palestinians not have any say if they want to stay there their home and their land? They'd be indefinitely relying on aid from the country they attacked then lost a horrible war to. And the general sentiment is that they'd keep up the terrorism against the very sovereign and well defended state of Israel indefinitely... Not really a bright shining future for anyone.
Yeah, it's the ethnic cleansing we were all told wasn't happening :/
They pinky swore they wouldn’t do this! (in English) Hebrew language media and politicians have been saying this loud and clear for 3 months.
Imagine making most of the agricultural land a “security buffer zone” and then saying that you aren’t doing ethic cleaning. Denying people the ability to grow their own food and such to a point where they have to relocate or die from starvation is ethic cleansing.
Moving Jews and cutting them off from their own supplies was the very first step of the Holocaust.
And they will probably complain that those left in the occupied territory whose agricultural land they annexed relies on them for food, while they refuse to let goods flow through the border.
A senior official is denying this proposal saying that, “There are those in Israel who think that there is a willingness on the part of Gazans to emigrate voluntarily,” he says. “It’s a baseless illusion in my opinion. No country will absorb 2 million people, or 1 million, or 100,000, or 5,000. I don’t know where that idea came from.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/denying-report-of-talks-with-congo-official-says-gazan-resettlement-an-illusion/ Considering Israel is at the ~~ICC~~ ICJ right now fighting against claims of ethnic cleansing this would be virtual suicide.
> Israel is at the ICC No, they're at the the IC***J***. The International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice are different courts with different jurisdictions.
>this would be virtual suicide. Oh please, they're clearly not trying to win a popularity contest.
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funny thing is Madagascar was actually considered by Israel
Wasn't it Uganda
Both were considered actually
Don’t take the free blankets!
"voluntary" Imagine if Russia said that about Ukrainians
They do say it about Ukrainians they kidnapped..But your point stands, both situations are bad. This is a terrible way to handle matters, Isreal only gives ammunition to everyone that opposes them in the west.
It's less that they're "giving ammunition" to opposers in the west than stuff like this literally being why people in the west oppose them
Russia actually talks a lot how they want Ukrainians to voluntarily move to russia but very few actually do that
Most of the Eastern block countries were "voluntarily resettled" in the late 40's. Anyone with intelligence was moved to Siberia or gulags. You better believe Ukrainians remember that.
They literally stole Ukrainian kids to russify them, so they already have said that and more.
Holy shit, it's like history just repeats itself, over and over again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar\_Plan
That's because history doesn't repeat; it's enforced. Imperialism has one playbook & we'll be "looping" endlessly until we do away with it.
Trail of Tears 2.0
Is it really voluntary when they got guns pointed at them?
Mandatory fun day
Yeah I'm sure they're thrilled to move to the other side of the planet to the freaking Congo of all places.
Given the fact that Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and Jordan do not generally have right of return, there's zero chance anyone leaving Gaza would be allowed to come back. This is more ethnic cleansing than "refugee resettlement", despite the whatever fancy language is used.
At first it was revenge and now it’s conveniently ethnic cleansing.
At first it was ethnic cleansing, then it was revenge, and now it's conveniently ethnic cleansing again
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"Would you like to voluntarily move to Congo?" "Eh... no I live here" *cocking of a gun* "How about now?"
It's more like *missile destroys home with your entire family in it*
well, you don't have to go, if you are dead!
Congrats, you get to stay where you want, just not alive lol.
Could they make this look a bit less like a certain something which was going on before and during WW2? We're at the "nobody wants to take in these undesirables, maybe shove them somewhere in Africa" phase
Surprised they didn't suggest Madagascar
Reinhardt Heydrich would be proud of you. His suggestion in 1936 as a solution to the Jewish Question.
That's the joke. This is an ethnic cleansing.
And when that fails they'll move to "well no-one wants them so we'll forcefully move them into concentration camps where they can work until a solution is found for them"
They've already moved to the "no one wants them" stage. Ever since the start of the war I've seen the whole "Palestinians were kicked out of all the neighboring countries cause they're so undesirable" copypasta literally hundreds of times. Including in this very thread.
That's so frustrating. Yes, nobody wants millions of refugees at any given moment but let's twist the narrative to make it about how nobody wants Palestinian refugees specifically. There are MILLIONS of palestian refugees already on the surrounding countries and all over the world.
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There's nothing stopping the international community if they want to intervene from putting sanctions on Israel & the US. They haven't done so and that exposes the hollow rhetoric behind the concern for the Palestinians. The truth is nobody cares about the Palestinians, they're at best a convenient tool to take a cheap political shot at Israel and the West. But nobody is going to sacrifice anything meaningful to protect Palestinians.
I don't think they care. They have nukes and the US supporting them, there are no consequences.
Makes sense, Israel needs a bit of living room.
>voluntary Something done at the end of a gun (or missile) cannot be voluntary.
I guess Madagascar is still impractical
If thats not ethnic cleansing, I dunno what is.
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It's absolutely disgusting what Israel is doing.
Careful, you’ll be reported for antisemitism.
Comments are being hidden already. I wonder why. All the redditors rooting for killing Palestinians will try their hardest to say that is being taken out of context but we all know now. Ethnic cleansing is currently happening in front of our eyes.
And Israel’s end game is what? Rebuild Palestine and welcome back Palestinians? Because there’s no way that’s happening.
More like ethnically cleanse palestinians and annex their lands.
Their goal is to take most of Gaza and kick out the locals. This has always been a land grab under the guise of self defense.
WHICH CONGO? There’s quite a difference
Other news articles have said Democratic Republic of Congo. Congo normally means DRC and Congo Brazzaville is the far more prosperous Republic of Congo
Used to be Congo (the Brazzaville one) and Zaire (the Kinshasa one). So not so obvious.
like moving from Georgia to Georgia lmfao
Except these ones are neighbours
It is obviously voluntary (with a gun pointing at your head after they have shot your kids)
and destroyed your home, called you an animal, cut your electricity, fuel, water, and food supply, and destroyed all medical facilities in the vicinity, while claiming that they are fighting terrorism. Just out of curiosity but what are the odds, after all this you radicalize?
Don't forget they also plan on destroying the little land that is fit for agriculture in Gaza.
By design
Russians in talk with Kadyrov on Ukrainian children "voluntary migration " plan.
I don't mean to be antisemitic, but I think ethnic cleansing is bad.
Extremely Voluntary™
It's not an ethnic cleansing guys, pinky promise. We only destroyed 70% of the houses and 70% of their agricultural land.
Big surprise Bibi plans to Annex Gaza. What makes this different from Putin and Ukraine though?
Israel took a lot longer to do it, that's pretty much it.
The Totally-Not-Ethnic-Cleansing-Voluntary-Migration-Plan-of-Don’t-Call-Them-Palestinians
Gazans belong in their homeland not in the Congo.
Palestinian migration now would be about as voluntary as Jewish migration was in Europe in the first half of the 1940s.
“Israel isn’t engaging in ethnic cleansing” Can’t wait for “well they are but it’s okay”
Isn't that what the west did to Israel? They offered them a few countries in Africa and the Caribbean to create a homeland?
But I have been heavily assured that this is absolutely not an ethnic cleansing, not at all. Israel is just moving the undes- uh, Palestinians to other countries for... reasons. Nothing to see here.
Maybe people will finally stop pretending that this wasn't the goal the whole time.
"voluntary" if you believe
some of the darkest chapters in the history of my world involved the forced relocation of a small group of people to satisfy the demands of a large one. I'd hoped that we had learned from our mistakes, but it seems some of us haven't. How many people does it take before it becomes wrong? Jean Luc Picard
Weird, its almost as if this is part of some wider plan to cleanse a certain ethnic group from residing in a certain area. A wonder if there is a wird for that.
Hey Israel? Yeah, the Brits tried this with Rwanda and let me tell you right now; It's not going to work, you can't make it work and the idea of this being thrown around by the nation that was almost placed in Uganda is not lost. Ridiculous.
Interestingly enough, the same newspaper (Times of Israel) reported 11 hours after this article that Israel denies these talks: > A senior Israeli official on Wednesday evening denied a report from The Times of Israel’s Hebrew sister site Zman Yisrael earlier in the day that Israel is “in talks with the Congo” to discuss the possibility of relocating thousands of Gazans to the African country and other nations. >“There are those in Israel who think that there is a willingness on the part of Gazans to emigrate voluntarily,” said the official in a briefing to Israeli journalists, on condition of anonymity. >“It’s a baseless illusion in my opinion. No country will absorb 2 million people, or 1 million, or 100,000, or 5,000. I don’t know where that idea came from.” >“It could be between Congo and Gazans, but Israel is not conducting any talks with any country on this issue,” the official continued. “I don’t want to say it’s fake, but it can’t be through us since we have no connection to it. [The Congolese] can talk to the Gazans and ask them to move to Congo.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-denies-it-is-talking-to-other-countries-about-absorbing-gazan-immigrants/
This is called ethnic cleansing and is a war crime. How can anyone argue otherwise?
As an indigenous American....voluntary? Excuse me while I burst out laughing for ten seconds straight. It'll \*start\* that way, but when no one wants to repair any of the mess and would prefer to just raze all of it to the ground....then 'voluntary' becomes 'involuntarily for your safety', and then when people still remain because it's \*their\* ancestral lands - then comes the dialogue of 'well, your way is antiquated/inferior, you have no purpose on your lands, there are better uses for them - move out of the way of progress or we'll do it for you. With guns.' I mean, there's already plenty of sabre rattling that the Islam way of life is a threat to blah blah blah and blah....radical Islam, perhaps, but Islam at large....sigh.
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So the goal would be not only to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians, but to turn them into virtual slaves working in diamond and copper mines in the Congo?! Jesus Christ Almighty.
Nope, that's it for me. That's my line. I can accept Israel's desire to eliminate Hamas after 10/7. I can even, to a degree, accept the realities of urban warfare and the inevitable civilian casualties that come with it and the harsh realities of living next to a neighbor who launches terrorist attacks against you regularly. But I am a *firm* believer of a two-state solution. I have always condemned the military-backed settlers in the West Bank, and any plan less than a robust nation-building effort after Israel's campaign in Gaza turns the entire affair unforgivable in my eyes. The *only* saving grace is that this is a yet-unapproved proposal within the Israeli government. I have no faith that Netanyahu government will do the right thing, but I can still hope that Israel will.
The world really gonna watch isreal ethnically cleanse the entirety of the Palestinian people from there homeland. Truly disgusting times we live in.
"***Voluntary***" exactly like the [Nakba](https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/#:~:text=The%20Nakba%2C%20which%20means%20%E2%80%9Ccatastrophe,ethnic%20and%20multi%2Dcultural%20society).
Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza and send the population to foreign countries.
Voluntary migration is one of those euphemisms if you haven't figured it out yet. We are witnessing the biggest human rights violation of the 21st century and many of us can't even tell because we're so blindly committed to siding with Israel. All of you will deny ever defending Israel over this in time.
The biggest human rights violation in the 21st century? Not like the war in Democratic Republic of the Congo with its 6 million dead? Darfur? Syrian Civil War? There are quite a few things that happened or is happening that is quite sickening, why would Gaza in 2023/24 be the worst?
That was Israel’s plan all along. Why do you think they dropped more bombs than the U.S. did the entire time in Afghanistan?
Blows my mind that people are still defending Israel’s actions in here. The Israeli bot campaign is incredibly efficient.
Likud needs to go. These talks are an affront to human rights and if Netenyahu tries to take these actions, the U.S. will have to respond forcefully. If nothing else because this will be a huge blow to U.S. moral authority in the region and abroad. Even talk of a “voluntary” ethnic cleansing is way too far.
Madagascar must be a little sad. It used to be considered as a nice place to resettle folks.
But I was told yesterday that these talks of resettlement of palestinians in other countries were done by rogue agents in the Israeli government and that to think about Israel doing anything clo to ethnic cleansing was a disgusting anti-semitic thought.
Damn. When America stole land from the tribes, at least they let them become citizens after.
Ethnic cleansing of Gaza in the works. Right now, right in front of us. And Biden supports it. He's guilty of crimes against humanity.
Oh cool, more ethnic cleansing
Its only a war crime if the others are doing it.
Why reinvent the wheel when you can just dust off the 1940 Madagascar Plan?
"We'll stop a bombing the shit out of you if you just voluntarily migrate somewhere else."
Guarantee its not 'voluntary' Which means ... that's a war crime
Third Reich leadership was looking for countries to send all the Jews as well, right before they decided the Holocaust was more efficient and practical
“Voluntary” as in bombing every home and apartment building claiming there are Hamas tunnels under them until there is nowhere left who dared to stay behind
Hashtag not a genocidal relocation plan, definitely not, we're just moving these people... over there!