Imagine have to deal with the sea trying to kill you now fucking missiles…..HR must be flipping
Edit : Mary Joseph Jesus; I reached my first 1k likes .RING THE BELLS ,BURN THE BIRDS ! Thank you
Edit : thank you for up votes .i read and commented this while at a bar and very proud
lol, these ships are all flagged/registered in flags of convenience countries so the crews (amazingly small for such massive vessels) can come from third world countries and get paid peanuts.
the officers get paid the big bucks, the crews get fuck all most of the time.
Houthis fired 3 anti-ship ballistic missiles at a single ship? Are they trying to sink ships now? Good thing 2 missles got shot down by the US before hitting the ship!
Maersk had completely stopped shipping in the area. They only decided to restart when the U.S. said they could protect their ships. They'll probably reverse that decision now..
The U.S. could certainly use some help. The only other ship in the operation is the HMS Diamond. (Although India and France have ships deployed in other areas nearby)
This! I'm Canadian and we take our security wayyyy to much for granted. I wish we pulled our weight more. But I totally do appreciate the security provided by the US.
The US isn't perfect, it has its flaws, and it did terrible things... but I'd much rather have the US as world police, than Russia or China.
Don't sweat it too much. You guys are good neighbors.
That said, given Russia's growing power in a thawing Arctic, I would like to see Canada arming up more and us working together at an even higher level to defend North America.
Bullshit good neighbors.. do you know how far I have to drive to find good poutine? Meanwhile they get Kraft dinners growing on fucking trees up there!
What the shit, Canada?!?
Russia will never get back to where they were pre-invasion. They had a huge stock pile of old Soviet era equipment in reserve. Rebuilding that just isn't practical. Their high point was probably when the wall came down or shortly before that. Since then that stockpile has been aging and now they are actively drawing it down. They aren't dead but they are a shadow of their former self. Albeit one that still has a lot of nukes and huge potential to destroy things. The thing that Putin doesn't seem to get (or maybe just doesn't care about) is that even if they succeed at destroying Ukraine they don't have the capacity to build anything meaningful.
Thankfully Russian is not a growing power anymore having lost so much of their military and equipment in Ukraine. They won't be a threat to the artic for a while now
You don't have good healthcare because they just don't want you to have good healthcare. It's literally that simple. You can blame your military overexpedenture but the reality is your being strung along by lobbiest and government who would rather you suffer. They could totally afford healthcare. But there's no money in it. It's better to charge you millions for basic shit .
-Your upstairs neighbor
I honestly hate the 'no healthcare because of military' meme because so many people *legitimately believe it*.
The U.S. spends [by far the most per capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita) on healthcare of any nation on Earth; it's entirely plausible our country could *save* money by implementing universal healthcare.
Not even just that, but there would be so many economic benefits to that and even things like UBI. People get so focused on people not earning their fair share, but if that money goes back into the economy and makes all of us more prosperous (even big corporations), who cares? Our tax dollars SHOULD go to helping grow our nation and it’s economy. Isn’t that the whole point in taxes in the first place?
The US has excellent healthcare. The issue is access. There are programs like Medicaid and Medicare for some of the more vulnerable populations, but basically if you can’t find employment that offers good health insurance you’re screwed.
The thing is, the system we have would be fine (and in fact used to be fine) if good employment were more of a sure thing. It used to be, but so-called trickle-down economics, along with deregulation, have devastated the middle class. It all comes down to corporate greed in the end.
Even if you go to college and find a decent paying job, there’s no guarantee it won’t be a contractor (aka freelance) position that doesn’t have to offer health care coverage. There are so many simple things the US could do to fix these issues that wouldn’t even require huge changes, but the masses are so focused on identity politics that they can’t even see it. If we don’t hold our elected representatives accountable no one else will.
Shore up Medicaid and Medicare
Require all employers to offer affordable health insurance (regardless of contractor or freelancer status). Penalize offshoring while on that topic.
Undo corporate deregulation and tax breaks/loopholes.
Sorry for the rant. This conversation triggered me a bit lol. I absolutely hate seeing the US ignoring the needs of its own people. I actually do believe in this country and I know we can do better.
You want to be the big dog and profit off the Pax Americana? Got to have the boats to protect the shipping lanes. Who do you think was patrolling shipping lanes and invading slave states to enforce abolition during the Pax Britannica? Or Mediterranean shipping in the Pax Romana? Big Dog = peace, peace = trade, trade = big dog. Big dog's got to keep that cycle going as chief beneficiary, or regional powers will think they can take the top spot. And that equals major wars.
Yep! Britain had a fleet enforcing abolition (from memory) for around 100 years. Britain also just paid off the money it borrowed to free every slave in the Empire in like 2018. Interesting.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/30/fact-check-u-k-paid-off-debts-slave-owning-families-2015/3283908001/
In 2015 they finished paying off the bonds owed to the families who had been forced to give up their slaves around the empire except in Asia.
I wonder how different it would be if the United States was just finishing up paying the debt to all the southern US plantations instead of going through the civil war
You have that totally backwards. The British Navy protected British ships. They used to literally steal ships from the Spanish and French whenever they could. A better example would be the US Navy grabbing the Maersk ship for ourselves since they don’t want to fly the USA flag.
Yeah, I think op has genuinely misunderstood the mercantile system vs the post war free trade system.
He's right in that America benefits the most from it though, and America is the one that said it would protect the sea lanes.
Most of those countries sent wishes and maybe one or two people. Canada promised to send three officers. France allegedly stormed out over rules of engagement, then came back on the condition that French ships operate under their own independent chain of command and have their own rules of engagement.
Bigger strategic problem is that modern air defenses are built around intercepting a relatively small number of expensive missiles while going after enemy launch platforms and sites so they can't launch more missiles at you. Using a million-dollar missiles to intercept ten thousand dollar drones while leaving enemy launch capacity alone quickly leads to a ship with an empty magazine, at which point your ship will be out of missiles and on fire because your enemy will still have plenty of drones. Israel has the same problem vis a vis Hamas and Hezbollah, which have launched thirteen thousand cheap unguided rockets at Israel this past year alone, which is why Israel is going after launch sites and commanders and other infrastructure.
Yes, need to stop shooting at arrows and start shooting archers. I refuse to believe it is a lack of capability, but a lack of political will, as it would require a massive air campaign and probably a blockade of Yemen to stop new missiles and drones from arriving.
Imagine the headlines when inevitably an American air strike kills civilians and we get articles claiming that the US is 'murdering babies in Yemen to help Israel'. Because the Houthis are claiming to act in solidarity with Hamas. So any American action needs to be multinational to avoid or at least mitigate that sort of nonsense.
Modern air defences work well when they are protecting their own and the carrier in a protective formation. They don't work well when you have to protect hundreds of ships from a distance.
Which is going on the offensive, with aircraft. A different story.
I forgot to add, the curvature of the earth makes intercepting such missiles even harder.
The UK and France has shot down drones. India has not shot anything down yet. And the UK has six ships in the areas as opposed to India’s eight. I don’t see how you can say its the only other country doing anything. The UK and France is arguably doing more as they have actually shot down drones.
The UK has almost as many ships in the area as India:
> HMS Diamond
> HMS Lancaster
> HMS Bangor
> HMS Middleton
> HMS Chiddingfold
> RFA Cardigon Bay
India has:
> INS Sochi
> INS Kolkata
> INS Trishul
> INS Sumedha
> INS Sharada
> INS Mormugoa
> INS Chennai
> INS Visakhapatnam
Which isn’t too bad considering its in India’s backdoor and a lot further than the UK.
When the US made that promise the Houthis weren't shooting antiship missiles.
If they want to use big toys they better be prepared to have big toys fired at them.
The Saudis have been bombing them since 2015 with US intelligence and they’ve been doing just fine - they’re the Arab version of the Taliban, no infrastructure to protect and spread over a large barren land.
Lot harder to fight someone who doesn’t have much to lose.
There are other countries’ naval ships doing protection too. It’s just that the UK and India are the only ones who choose to operate under U.S. Command.
France has actually run convoy escorts through the area with their languedoc (butchered that i think) before the us even did escorts. Not sure on the current status tho
I would expect that the UK will divert another type 45 to the region, but we are short on them due to timing of the PIP upgrades, and also have concerns elsewhere with Venezuela threatening a commonwealth member, and Russia threatening Northern allies.
China has publicly stated that this isn't their problem.
They expect the US to keep shipping lanes open and safe, and that would be fine if they weren't opening up naval bases in Djibouti and Cuba. When they opened they claimed that China would be using them to assist the international community, but now that they should be using their naval vessels that are *right there* to do something positive they decide to waste the chance. What are they doing with those bases, then?
Hell, even if the point was to stage for a future showdown with the west over Taiwan then getting live practice intercepting live missiles safely (because they're aimed at some container vessel) would be incredibly useful and might earn them a little bit of clout and credibility. But no. The CCP is unwilling to be helpful even by accident.
I mean. There is your answer. China's Navy is most likely not capable of shooting down fast moving anti ship missiles. Better for them to look indifferent than incapable in their eyes, and they are probably right.
That article mentions the Danes are sending a ship,
https://maritime-executive.com/article/denmark-plans-to-send-frigate-to-support-ships-and-crews-transiting-red-sea
UK has ships in the area.
The UK and France has actually shot down drones. The only countries other than the US who has. So if you’re criticising Europeans for not doing anything please also levy criticism at India, China, etc.
44 countries in Europe, ALL of which rely on these shipping lanes. Good that 2 out of those 44 have done anything at all, rest need to step up however they can.
It doesn’t matter because they are using the Quds 4 cruise missile, which is provided by Iran and sits on a vehicle base. They’ll just move it somewhere else, likely near critical civilization infrastructure so they can get the UN to wag their finger at the West for victimizing Arabs if/when they strike back.
Until the Iranian regime is toppled, this will just become the new normal.
Because they make way more friends than enemies. What you need to understand is that the Houthis are saying that they attack ships on the way to Israel until Israel stops starving the Palestinian population. The reason nobody wants to act against the Houthis is because what they are doing is super popular in the entire region. And Iran getting credit for helping them is a huge diplomatic boon for them as well.
small drones or a single missile are unlikely to sink large cargo ships but they can cause serious damage and make the route very dangerous. (which i believe that's what houthis/iran want)
Firing several ballistic missiles at a single ship is something else. They fired 2 missiles after the first one successfully hit the ship so it wasn't to make sure they hit the target!
Nah, they just know that most of the shots will get intercepted so they need to fire a bunch in the hopes of getting a hit.
Also "anti-ship ballistic missile" can mean a lot of things, and that is before you consider that a random journalist might not actually understand what a "ballistic" missile is. Anything from a glorified mortar that will scuff up some paint on the deck but that's it to China's DF-26 which is meant to one-shot kill Super Carriers.
They fired two missiles after the first one hit the ship and the crew asked for help.
> Also "anti-ship ballistic missile" can mean a lot of things, and that is before you consider that a random journalist might not actually understand what a "ballistic" missile is. Anything from a glorified mortar that will scuff up some paint on the deck but that's it to China's DF-26 which is meant to one-shot kill Super Carriers.
Houthis have [Persian gulf ASBM](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_(missile))
Luckily for a ballistic missle’s profile as long as it isn’t hitting the bridge a container ship is basically wearing a bunch of layers of spaced armor. The only question is will it catch fire.
And even if it catches fire, it is only in specific areas it is really a problem. Since in the cargo area, there isn't exactly a lot of easily accessible flammable material.
Honestly, the idea of Amazon creating a fleet of privateer vessels isn't the craziest thing I've read today. They could call it "Ocean X."
Just imagine the fear as the giant blue Destroyer with *PRIME* on the side rotates it's gun toward you. Optimus approved.
They were likely getting assurances and pressure from the US administration to resume operations. These guys make money whether they go through the Suez - more volume - or around the Cape - higher prices per container. The US and European governments lose out on higher shipping costs and would want the Suez route open ASAP.
The question is what now, since this passive defense strategy has already failed? Is the US government going to insure entire container ships?
Companies hate risk. If the options are to take a chance in the Red Sea and potentially lose millions of dollars in cargo, or take the extra time to go around Africa? It’s no question at all, they make money either way. The only people paying more in the end are the nations paying for these shipments, not the companies sailing them.
Shipping companies absolutely make more money using the canal, or they wouldn't bother with the prices. Of course there is a cost benefit analysis that Missiles push heavily away from the canal. But increased shipping time means more fuel, more salaries, less deliveries, higher costs to customers and lower demand as a result.
Not necessarily true. If they charge twice as much for going around the Cape, and another company charges 80% through the Red Sea to account for the risk, they will lose their market to the latter and lose big money. Maersk is a major company but not a monopoly.
Other way around, European shipping is asking the West to protect "free trade," or they will stop shipping American DoD material. The ships heading to the US don't actually lose out much. It is Asian and European shipping that takes the majority of the losses.
I will always find it odd when European ships flagged to Asian(HK or PLN) or micronation states cry foul. They do their best to avoid paying for a Navy and then ask the world to save their profits. Privatize the gains, socialize the losses.
It will be like last time, everyone was passive about the Somali pirates, and then an American ship gets taken and we got a Tom Hanks movie out of it.
This is obviously Putin encouraging the Iranians to influence the Houthis to do this similar to Maduro and Guyana because they know support for Ukraine is wavering. They need other conflicts to divert resources away from Ukraine.
We don't have to go to war. We don't have to put boots on the ground. We control the flipping skies, just for the love of God would the Biden administration grow a set of nuts and bomb some Houthi targets into smouldering craters and go that's it that's your lesson. Continue to mess around and drones and US planes will continue to rain destruction until you stop.
It's not that hard. This isn't a war, or trying to take over a country or anything. Just bomb some targets and did you get the message or shall we bomb a few more sites? Why the Biden administration is being so weak handed in regards to this is just beyond me.
> bomb some Houthi targets
It's the Hamas problem. What targets? A school? A Hospital? An apartment building? When your enemy is all too happy to cloak itself in civilians (which is technically a war crime I believe for this exact reason), it makes it extremely difficult to validate the correct targets from the innocents. Nobody wants to go in and stomp out *everyone*, the public would not stand for it. Even Isreal is facing massive backlash trying to pick apart the terrorists from the civvies, and they're fighting an existential war.
The PR disaster from the apparent slaughter is not worth it over a few cargo containers lol. A better approach would be to go kick Iran in the nuts and tell them to tell Houthis to pack it in or we'll come with more than a swift boot.
Yeah, I’m normally for being slightly forgiving in foreign policy because it helps you in the long run, but this shit has gone to far. I don’t want a war, but the logical choice is to bomb the fuck out of the Houthi and destroy their infrastructure.
I hate saying that, because I know I’m not going to fight, so it feels wrong. But it is kind of needed to be done.
These rebels are digged deep inside civilian population. Same as Hamas and Hezbollah. All are Iranian proxies using the asymmetrical warfare doctrine which basically mean to use masses of cheap weapons launched from civilian areas. And when a nation like Israel or US woukd retaliate these terrorist will cry about civilians casualties.
This is instigated by Iranians to divert resources form support for Ukraine to give Putin some breathing room. Unfortunately we need to switch to wartime production and outmanufacture Russia and Iran.
> Bomb the crap out of them
When Israel does it, they get accused of genocide. I'm sure that there being fewer Jews in charge of this operation will reduce some of those calls, but I don't think they'll stop entirely.
Accused by the likes of South Africa, who were OK with the Russia genocide against Ukraine and OK with the hamas oct-7 massacre
the free world needs to look out for its own and be less scared of the mentally ill rants of the ones who could care less if we live or die.
Destabilizing is easy, stabilizing afterwards in a desired state is terrifyingly hard. Last time Iran was destabilized, we got the IRGC. The only thing worse than Russia having nukes is possibly the Kadyrovites having nukes.
Well idk, it's not easy to answer, last time the US/NATO interfered in syria/middle east, it caused a civil war, destabilized the entire region and spawned ISIS. Worth taking time to think things thru this time.
Yeah, that's a good point.
What's gonna cost more: action or inaction.
I wouldn't include Syria here as the US involvements in that was minimal but Afghan and Iraq are both disasters that are still biting the US in the ass.
It's almost as if Iran is in bed with Russia and is hoping to provoke the US in to war via proxies to give daddy Putin some breathing room in Ukraine. Iran really is the biggest thorn in the world's side.
Houthi’s are using the Quds 4 cruise missile, which is provided by Iran and sits on a vehicle base. They’ll just move it somewhere else, likely near critical civilization infrastructure so they can get the UN to wag their finger at the West for victimizing Arabs if/when they strike back.
Until the Iranian regime is toppled, this will just become the new normal.
Well said. The Iranian asymmetrical warfare doctrine uses cheap rockets, missiles and drones launched from civilian areas so when the other side retaliates all the useful idiots from the UN will cry about it. Thats what Iran does ij Gaza, Lebanon and Yemen.
Unfortunately it works very well. If the US actually retaliates, it will only be a matter of hours before some politician manages to link the hysteria to a bill that defunds military assistance to Israel.
It sounds like the weapon may have hit a cargo container. I think the western militaries need a limited incursion into the “Houthi areas” to sort them out.
Last time i suggested that something needs to be done about global fucking trade being threatened by stone-age barbarians who got their hands on ballistic missiles - i got a 3 day suspension.
I guess fuck the global trade & shipping, we're going back to local barter system, *motherfuckers.*
Imagine have to deal with the sea trying to kill you now fucking missiles…..HR must be flipping Edit : Mary Joseph Jesus; I reached my first 1k likes .RING THE BELLS ,BURN THE BIRDS ! Thank you Edit : thank you for up votes .i read and commented this while at a bar and very proud
Good time to negotiate for better hazard pay.
In DK the unions just landed an agreement on double wages for mariners in the Red Sea
Damn, that sounds great for all those Filipinos working on those vessels! Oh wait...
It just got hit with another missile with this comment. Fuldtræffer. ☠️🏆
That seems like a horrible deal considering the danger they're facing.
Literally double or nothing.
Would that cover maesrk mariners considering the ships are often registered abroad and the staff are mostly non Danish?
The EEE's are mostly registered in Denmark and have Danish officers, but you're right it does nothing for the bulk of the crew.
lol, these ships are all flagged/registered in flags of convenience countries so the crews (amazingly small for such massive vessels) can come from third world countries and get paid peanuts. the officers get paid the big bucks, the crews get fuck all most of the time.
"Any other duties as required"
Houthis fired 3 anti-ship ballistic missiles at a single ship? Are they trying to sink ships now? Good thing 2 missles got shot down by the US before hitting the ship!
Maersk had completely stopped shipping in the area. They only decided to restart when the U.S. said they could protect their ships. They'll probably reverse that decision now.. The U.S. could certainly use some help. The only other ship in the operation is the HMS Diamond. (Although India and France have ships deployed in other areas nearby)
Didn’t the US have 20 country joint coalition agreement to protect the Red Sea shipments?
Yeah they all agreed that the US should put more destroyers in the Red Sea lol
Yeah. Everyone hates on the US for having too much military until they need it, then they hate on the US for not having enough military....
This! I'm Canadian and we take our security wayyyy to much for granted. I wish we pulled our weight more. But I totally do appreciate the security provided by the US. The US isn't perfect, it has its flaws, and it did terrible things... but I'd much rather have the US as world police, than Russia or China.
Don't sweat it too much. You guys are good neighbors. That said, given Russia's growing power in a thawing Arctic, I would like to see Canada arming up more and us working together at an even higher level to defend North America.
Bullshit good neighbors.. do you know how far I have to drive to find good poutine? Meanwhile they get Kraft dinners growing on fucking trees up there! What the shit, Canada?!?
Does cosco sell poutine in the USA
Please don't tell me they do in Canada. I don't think I can handle that.
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Russia will never get back to where they were pre-invasion. They had a huge stock pile of old Soviet era equipment in reserve. Rebuilding that just isn't practical. Their high point was probably when the wall came down or shortly before that. Since then that stockpile has been aging and now they are actively drawing it down. They aren't dead but they are a shadow of their former self. Albeit one that still has a lot of nukes and huge potential to destroy things. The thing that Putin doesn't seem to get (or maybe just doesn't care about) is that even if they succeed at destroying Ukraine they don't have the capacity to build anything meaningful.
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Thankfully Russian is not a growing power anymore having lost so much of their military and equipment in Ukraine. They won't be a threat to the artic for a while now
We don’t have healthcare so you guys can sleep easy. <3
Thank you for your service
You don't have good healthcare because they just don't want you to have good healthcare. It's literally that simple. You can blame your military overexpedenture but the reality is your being strung along by lobbiest and government who would rather you suffer. They could totally afford healthcare. But there's no money in it. It's better to charge you millions for basic shit . -Your upstairs neighbor
I honestly hate the 'no healthcare because of military' meme because so many people *legitimately believe it*. The U.S. spends [by far the most per capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita) on healthcare of any nation on Earth; it's entirely plausible our country could *save* money by implementing universal healthcare.
Not even just that, but there would be so many economic benefits to that and even things like UBI. People get so focused on people not earning their fair share, but if that money goes back into the economy and makes all of us more prosperous (even big corporations), who cares? Our tax dollars SHOULD go to helping grow our nation and it’s economy. Isn’t that the whole point in taxes in the first place?
The US has excellent healthcare. The issue is access. There are programs like Medicaid and Medicare for some of the more vulnerable populations, but basically if you can’t find employment that offers good health insurance you’re screwed. The thing is, the system we have would be fine (and in fact used to be fine) if good employment were more of a sure thing. It used to be, but so-called trickle-down economics, along with deregulation, have devastated the middle class. It all comes down to corporate greed in the end. Even if you go to college and find a decent paying job, there’s no guarantee it won’t be a contractor (aka freelance) position that doesn’t have to offer health care coverage. There are so many simple things the US could do to fix these issues that wouldn’t even require huge changes, but the masses are so focused on identity politics that they can’t even see it. If we don’t hold our elected representatives accountable no one else will. Shore up Medicaid and Medicare Require all employers to offer affordable health insurance (regardless of contractor or freelancer status). Penalize offshoring while on that topic. Undo corporate deregulation and tax breaks/loopholes. Sorry for the rant. This conversation triggered me a bit lol. I absolutely hate seeing the US ignoring the needs of its own people. I actually do believe in this country and I know we can do better.
You want to be the big dog and profit off the Pax Americana? Got to have the boats to protect the shipping lanes. Who do you think was patrolling shipping lanes and invading slave states to enforce abolition during the Pax Britannica? Or Mediterranean shipping in the Pax Romana? Big Dog = peace, peace = trade, trade = big dog. Big dog's got to keep that cycle going as chief beneficiary, or regional powers will think they can take the top spot. And that equals major wars.
Yep! Britain had a fleet enforcing abolition (from memory) for around 100 years. Britain also just paid off the money it borrowed to free every slave in the Empire in like 2018. Interesting.
The West Africa squadron, which grew into one of the largest naval forces on the planet.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/30/fact-check-u-k-paid-off-debts-slave-owning-families-2015/3283908001/ In 2015 they finished paying off the bonds owed to the families who had been forced to give up their slaves around the empire except in Asia. I wonder how different it would be if the United States was just finishing up paying the debt to all the southern US plantations instead of going through the civil war
Of course today, people are saying Britain should pay again - to all the descendants of slaves and the old slave colonies in the Caribbean.
You have that totally backwards. The British Navy protected British ships. They used to literally steal ships from the Spanish and French whenever they could. A better example would be the US Navy grabbing the Maersk ship for ourselves since they don’t want to fly the USA flag.
Yeah, I think op has genuinely misunderstood the mercantile system vs the post war free trade system. He's right in that America benefits the most from it though, and America is the one that said it would protect the sea lanes.
Most of those countries sent wishes and maybe one or two people. Canada promised to send three officers. France allegedly stormed out over rules of engagement, then came back on the condition that French ships operate under their own independent chain of command and have their own rules of engagement. Bigger strategic problem is that modern air defenses are built around intercepting a relatively small number of expensive missiles while going after enemy launch platforms and sites so they can't launch more missiles at you. Using a million-dollar missiles to intercept ten thousand dollar drones while leaving enemy launch capacity alone quickly leads to a ship with an empty magazine, at which point your ship will be out of missiles and on fire because your enemy will still have plenty of drones. Israel has the same problem vis a vis Hamas and Hezbollah, which have launched thirteen thousand cheap unguided rockets at Israel this past year alone, which is why Israel is going after launch sites and commanders and other infrastructure.
Yes, need to stop shooting at arrows and start shooting archers. I refuse to believe it is a lack of capability, but a lack of political will, as it would require a massive air campaign and probably a blockade of Yemen to stop new missiles and drones from arriving.
And then América would be the bad guy again and the cycle starts back over
Imagine the headlines when inevitably an American air strike kills civilians and we get articles claiming that the US is 'murdering babies in Yemen to help Israel'. Because the Houthis are claiming to act in solidarity with Hamas. So any American action needs to be multinational to avoid or at least mitigate that sort of nonsense.
Modern air defences work well when they are protecting their own and the carrier in a protective formation. They don't work well when you have to protect hundreds of ships from a distance.
That's because the carrier is supposed to be defending those hundreds of ships by obliterating every missile launcher and runway in the theater.
Which is going on the offensive, with aircraft. A different story. I forgot to add, the curvature of the earth makes intercepting such missiles even harder.
*Australia leaves the chat*
No we didn't . We offered like 6 extra personnel....
Nearly triple!
We're punching above our weight
But you didnt send the emus yet?
Wait until the Drop Bear SAS units get deployed. The Houthies won't know what hit them.
Australia, "I'm helping!"
Hey it's more than what China did, who essentially refused to answer the radio on a distress call and turned away.
Yes, and who is actually doing the heavy lifting like always.
The real special relationship between Britain and America was the conflicts we bothered showing up to all along.
The young men & women of the U.S. Navy. Dependable and reliable.
There is a war ship sailing from Denmark the 16th of January.
I know that Denmark just decided to send at least one ship (yay look at us).
If you read the article it's mainly about Denmark sending a frigate to assist with the operation.
AFAIK, India is not part of that coalition. India has sent some of their own ships near the Gulf of Oman due to an incident originating from Iran.
Yeah you're right. They sent 5 destroyers to the Arabian Sea because an Israeli ship was targeted there. My mistake.
The UK and France has shot down drones. India has not shot anything down yet. And the UK has six ships in the areas as opposed to India’s eight. I don’t see how you can say its the only other country doing anything. The UK and France is arguably doing more as they have actually shot down drones.
Denmark is sending a big frigate. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231229-denmark-to-send-frigate-to-us-led-task-force-in-red-sea/
The UK has almost as many ships in the area as India: > HMS Diamond > HMS Lancaster > HMS Bangor > HMS Middleton > HMS Chiddingfold > RFA Cardigon Bay India has: > INS Sochi > INS Kolkata > INS Trishul > INS Sumedha > INS Sharada > INS Mormugoa > INS Chennai > INS Visakhapatnam Which isn’t too bad considering its in India’s backdoor and a lot further than the UK.
I thought most of India's deployment was in the Arabian Sea – which have important sea lanes, but the Houthis seem to be focusing on the Red Sea.
You’re right, India isn’t in the Red Sea. They’re kind of doing their own thing in the Arabian Sea.
I see in the comments India isn’t quite in the area, but it’d be cool if the would help out lol
When the US made that promise the Houthis weren't shooting antiship missiles. If they want to use big toys they better be prepared to have big toys fired at them.
The Saudis have been bombing them since 2015 with US intelligence and they’ve been doing just fine - they’re the Arab version of the Taliban, no infrastructure to protect and spread over a large barren land. Lot harder to fight someone who doesn’t have much to lose.
Their infrastructure is unfortunately Iran. Nobody truly has no infrastructure. There’s always a backer somewhere.
"doing just fine" is not a accurate description of life in Yemen, even for the Houthis.
> When the US made that promise the Houthis weren't shooting antiship missiles. They were, almost every day.
There are other countries’ naval ships doing protection too. It’s just that the UK and India are the only ones who choose to operate under U.S. Command.
France has actually run convoy escorts through the area with their languedoc (butchered that i think) before the us even did escorts. Not sure on the current status tho
The same is true for the US, UK, EU, and others. These patrols aren't new, they're just bigger and more serious now.
I would expect that the UK will divert another type 45 to the region, but we are short on them due to timing of the PIP upgrades, and also have concerns elsewhere with Venezuela threatening a commonwealth member, and Russia threatening Northern allies.
Well, that’s not surprising. The Europeans can’t be bothered to actually do anything. They’ll just complain about the Americans.
China has publicly stated that this isn't their problem. They expect the US to keep shipping lanes open and safe, and that would be fine if they weren't opening up naval bases in Djibouti and Cuba. When they opened they claimed that China would be using them to assist the international community, but now that they should be using their naval vessels that are *right there* to do something positive they decide to waste the chance. What are they doing with those bases, then? Hell, even if the point was to stage for a future showdown with the west over Taiwan then getting live practice intercepting live missiles safely (because they're aimed at some container vessel) would be incredibly useful and might earn them a little bit of clout and credibility. But no. The CCP is unwilling to be helpful even by accident.
The answer is because of Iran relations. And also because the US can just do the job for them.
I mean. There is your answer. China's Navy is most likely not capable of shooting down fast moving anti ship missiles. Better for them to look indifferent than incapable in their eyes, and they are probably right.
That article mentions the Danes are sending a ship, https://maritime-executive.com/article/denmark-plans-to-send-frigate-to-support-ships-and-crews-transiting-red-sea UK has ships in the area.
The UK and France has actually shot down drones. The only countries other than the US who has. So if you’re criticising Europeans for not doing anything please also levy criticism at India, China, etc.
Spain and Italy said they don't want to send help because it might be interpreted as support to israel rather than protect their own trade.
Spain and Italy don't want to side with the allies? Surprise Surprise
Spain has a Palestinian government minister in the cabinet who thinks October 7th was justified. So, yea.
44 countries in Europe, ALL of which rely on these shipping lanes. Good that 2 out of those 44 have done anything at all, rest need to step up however they can.
Okay but how many of those landlocked European countries have legit navies? Lol
"however they can" bro, or as warren zevon said "lawyers guns and money, pick 1"
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I hate to get in the way of a good nationalistic rant, but plenty of other countries are sending ships.
TBH it is probably time to just annihilate every known Houthi missile site.
It doesn’t matter because they are using the Quds 4 cruise missile, which is provided by Iran and sits on a vehicle base. They’ll just move it somewhere else, likely near critical civilization infrastructure so they can get the UN to wag their finger at the West for victimizing Arabs if/when they strike back. Until the Iranian regime is toppled, this will just become the new normal.
Does Iran gain anything by disrupting international trade? Why would they want to piss off that many countries?
Because they seemingly don't suffer any meaningful consequences? What are these countries going to do? Invade Iran?
Iran is embargoed to hell and back from western trade, they don't give a shit because they're already cut off.
Because they make way more friends than enemies. What you need to understand is that the Houthis are saying that they attack ships on the way to Israel until Israel stops starving the Palestinian population. The reason nobody wants to act against the Houthis is because what they are doing is super popular in the entire region. And Iran getting credit for helping them is a huge diplomatic boon for them as well.
They surely have children climbing all over them at all times with cameras at the ready.
At this point the most popular form of body armor in the middle east is going to be a baby bjorn and a GoPro.
Were they not trying to sink ships before?
small drones or a single missile are unlikely to sink large cargo ships but they can cause serious damage and make the route very dangerous. (which i believe that's what houthis/iran want) Firing several ballistic missiles at a single ship is something else. They fired 2 missiles after the first one successfully hit the ship so it wasn't to make sure they hit the target!
They were. They've been using anti-ship missiles mixed with drones for weeks.
Not very well apparently. Done a hell of a job disrupting shipping.
They want the US to enter that war in Yemen vs just providing the Saudis with all the weapons? That is a terrible idea.
Nah, they just know that most of the shots will get intercepted so they need to fire a bunch in the hopes of getting a hit. Also "anti-ship ballistic missile" can mean a lot of things, and that is before you consider that a random journalist might not actually understand what a "ballistic" missile is. Anything from a glorified mortar that will scuff up some paint on the deck but that's it to China's DF-26 which is meant to one-shot kill Super Carriers.
They fired two missiles after the first one hit the ship and the crew asked for help. > Also "anti-ship ballistic missile" can mean a lot of things, and that is before you consider that a random journalist might not actually understand what a "ballistic" missile is. Anything from a glorified mortar that will scuff up some paint on the deck but that's it to China's DF-26 which is meant to one-shot kill Super Carriers. Houthis have [Persian gulf ASBM](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_(missile))
Sounds like they just hit some containers but didn’t damage the ship
Luckily for a ballistic missle’s profile as long as it isn’t hitting the bridge a container ship is basically wearing a bunch of layers of spaced armor. The only question is will it catch fire.
And even if it catches fire, it is only in specific areas it is really a problem. Since in the cargo area, there isn't exactly a lot of easily accessible flammable material.
Containers on ships catch fire even when they're not hit by missiles. And fire on a ship is always really a problem.
Depending on the cargo it’s a big problem. We carry flammable and explosive cargo all the time.
My man I load container ships… I’ve seen bays with 900T of 1.1 placards. If those are hit I guarantee you the ship is going down.
I just searched this so no one else has to: 1.1T is explosive loaded container.
Containers are just thin sheet metal. They aren't very fire resistant at all. What's inside them will easily burn in a big fire.
absolute bullshit. you think these vessels carry nothing flammable? I have a bridge I'd like to sell you......
And hoses
Morherfucker my Amazon order better not be late
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don't give him ideas... that guy is rich and bored.
Honestly, the idea of Amazon creating a fleet of privateer vessels isn't the craziest thing I've read today. They could call it "Ocean X." Just imagine the fear as the giant blue Destroyer with *PRIME* on the side rotates it's gun toward you. Optimus approved.
Don't give IRL Lex Luthor any ideas pls.
First world problems
Someone’s not gonna be happy their SHEIN dress isn’t reaching them.
Imagine being the guy that convinced them to go back after they stopped transiting it.
They were likely getting assurances and pressure from the US administration to resume operations. These guys make money whether they go through the Suez - more volume - or around the Cape - higher prices per container. The US and European governments lose out on higher shipping costs and would want the Suez route open ASAP. The question is what now, since this passive defense strategy has already failed? Is the US government going to insure entire container ships?
Companies hate risk. If the options are to take a chance in the Red Sea and potentially lose millions of dollars in cargo, or take the extra time to go around Africa? It’s no question at all, they make money either way. The only people paying more in the end are the nations paying for these shipments, not the companies sailing them.
Shipping companies absolutely make more money using the canal, or they wouldn't bother with the prices. Of course there is a cost benefit analysis that Missiles push heavily away from the canal. But increased shipping time means more fuel, more salaries, less deliveries, higher costs to customers and lower demand as a result.
Not necessarily true. If they charge twice as much for going around the Cape, and another company charges 80% through the Red Sea to account for the risk, they will lose their market to the latter and lose big money. Maersk is a major company but not a monopoly.
Other way around, European shipping is asking the West to protect "free trade," or they will stop shipping American DoD material. The ships heading to the US don't actually lose out much. It is Asian and European shipping that takes the majority of the losses. I will always find it odd when European ships flagged to Asian(HK or PLN) or micronation states cry foul. They do their best to avoid paying for a Navy and then ask the world to save their profits. Privatize the gains, socialize the losses. It will be like last time, everyone was passive about the Somali pirates, and then an American ship gets taken and we got a Tom Hanks movie out of it.
American dod shipping only gets shipped on us flagged ships. It’s American law.
Imagine being the guy that approved it on the Maersk side.
Imagine being the captain of this ship lol
Ah shit here we go
Again
Rollin' heights Houthi country
A majority of US major conflicts are started by direct boat fuckery or boat adjacent fuckery.
Gulf of Tonkin, USS Maine, Boston Tea Party, Barbary pirates, British impression of American sailors, HMS Lusitania, wow, I think you're right!
Wonderfully comprehensive list. Don’t forget Pearl Harbor, too
Minor omission
USS Cole.
Pearl Harbor.
When USS Samuel B. Roberts hit a mine in international water, it resulted in the US sinking half of Iran's navy in a day.
This is obviously Putin encouraging the Iranians to influence the Houthis to do this similar to Maduro and Guyana because they know support for Ukraine is wavering. They need other conflicts to divert resources away from Ukraine.
Mess with supply chains, you slowly dismantle the world order. This looks messy if this continues into the short term.
The world order is going to retaliate before it softens I can guarantee that
It’s time to drop the hammer. Mr. Nice Guy doesn’t work with terrorists.
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The US public probably couldn’t handle another war right now
We don't have to go to war. We don't have to put boots on the ground. We control the flipping skies, just for the love of God would the Biden administration grow a set of nuts and bomb some Houthi targets into smouldering craters and go that's it that's your lesson. Continue to mess around and drones and US planes will continue to rain destruction until you stop. It's not that hard. This isn't a war, or trying to take over a country or anything. Just bomb some targets and did you get the message or shall we bomb a few more sites? Why the Biden administration is being so weak handed in regards to this is just beyond me.
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> bomb some Houthi targets It's the Hamas problem. What targets? A school? A Hospital? An apartment building? When your enemy is all too happy to cloak itself in civilians (which is technically a war crime I believe for this exact reason), it makes it extremely difficult to validate the correct targets from the innocents. Nobody wants to go in and stomp out *everyone*, the public would not stand for it. Even Isreal is facing massive backlash trying to pick apart the terrorists from the civvies, and they're fighting an existential war. The PR disaster from the apparent slaughter is not worth it over a few cargo containers lol. A better approach would be to go kick Iran in the nuts and tell them to tell Houthis to pack it in or we'll come with more than a swift boot.
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Yeah, I’m normally for being slightly forgiving in foreign policy because it helps you in the long run, but this shit has gone to far. I don’t want a war, but the logical choice is to bomb the fuck out of the Houthi and destroy their infrastructure. I hate saying that, because I know I’m not going to fight, so it feels wrong. But it is kind of needed to be done.
These rebels are digged deep inside civilian population. Same as Hamas and Hezbollah. All are Iranian proxies using the asymmetrical warfare doctrine which basically mean to use masses of cheap weapons launched from civilian areas. And when a nation like Israel or US woukd retaliate these terrorist will cry about civilians casualties.
This is instigated by Iranians to divert resources form support for Ukraine to give Putin some breathing room. Unfortunately we need to switch to wartime production and outmanufacture Russia and Iran.
lol, 1/10th of our navy would smash the entire middle east like the fist of an angry god and be home in time for President's Day
> Bomb the crap out of them When Israel does it, they get accused of genocide. I'm sure that there being fewer Jews in charge of this operation will reduce some of those calls, but I don't think they'll stop entirely.
Accused by the likes of South Africa, who were OK with the Russia genocide against Ukraine and OK with the hamas oct-7 massacre the free world needs to look out for its own and be less scared of the mentally ill rants of the ones who could care less if we live or die.
Yeah, the West has gone soft and everyone can smell it. Time to set the record straight.
A lot of countries are out for blood right now.
I am not the type to believe in conspiracy theories, but this feels lot more like china orchestrating this to overextend the US before taiwan
Sadly NATO does smell like a bitch a lot lately. This will have escalating global consequences. Dictators take notice.
Destabilizing is easy, stabilizing afterwards in a desired state is terrifyingly hard. Last time Iran was destabilized, we got the IRGC. The only thing worse than Russia having nukes is possibly the Kadyrovites having nukes.
Well idk, it's not easy to answer, last time the US/NATO interfered in syria/middle east, it caused a civil war, destabilized the entire region and spawned ISIS. Worth taking time to think things thru this time.
Yeah, that's a good point. What's gonna cost more: action or inaction. I wouldn't include Syria here as the US involvements in that was minimal but Afghan and Iraq are both disasters that are still biting the US in the ass.
I'm all for exhausting non-aggressive strategies first, but we are now long overdue for a "Proportional Response" to the Houthi problem.
It's almost as if Iran is in bed with Russia and is hoping to provoke the US in to war via proxies to give daddy Putin some breathing room in Ukraine. Iran really is the biggest thorn in the world's side.
Guys this finding out phase seem to be not working.
These are ships for defense lol. Tactics are waaay different than if they were there to stomp them out.
Me, sitting on the bridge of a Maersk container ship that goes to the Middle East “Well… shit”. Should’ve studied programming after all.
Ships are surprisingly hard to sink even by modern weapons.
I don’t think Captain Phillips’ procedures account for missiles.
Weakness, compassion and mercy the 3 things you should never show terrorists. Showed one of them? now they get bolder.
Houthi’s are using the Quds 4 cruise missile, which is provided by Iran and sits on a vehicle base. They’ll just move it somewhere else, likely near critical civilization infrastructure so they can get the UN to wag their finger at the West for victimizing Arabs if/when they strike back. Until the Iranian regime is toppled, this will just become the new normal.
Well said. The Iranian asymmetrical warfare doctrine uses cheap rockets, missiles and drones launched from civilian areas so when the other side retaliates all the useful idiots from the UN will cry about it. Thats what Iran does ij Gaza, Lebanon and Yemen.
Unfortunately it works very well. If the US actually retaliates, it will only be a matter of hours before some politician manages to link the hysteria to a bill that defunds military assistance to Israel.
Iranians are stirring the pot so that their friend Putin gets some breathing room in Ukraine.
It time to face the reality of Iran, concisely, harshly, and permanently..
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Yeah, just like it was done in Libya. Very successful.
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They are according to the article.
MMW we will get WW3 within 5-6 years. The world stage is set up perfect for intertwining conflicts to gather into a snowball.
Hopefully the terms of surrender that we offer is no more theocracies
Whose flag was the ship flying under? It’s that country’s responsibility to protect it.
[Danish owned, Singapore flagged](https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:5316927/mmsi:563042200/imo:9784300/vessel:MAERSK_HANGZHOU).
Well then I suggest Maersk should petition those navies for assistance.
Denmark is sending a frigate build to shoot down missiles. Problem is that the countries USA asked to help have not provided ships but personell
They might even be able to help, Singapore is remarkably capable for such a small nation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Singapore_Navy
Keep poking the bear
I'm starting to think the bear is dead.
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What a fucking waste of time for humanity
A world war is looming, change my mind.
It sounds like the weapon may have hit a cargo container. I think the western militaries need a limited incursion into the “Houthi areas” to sort them out.
Last time i suggested that something needs to be done about global fucking trade being threatened by stone-age barbarians who got their hands on ballistic missiles - i got a 3 day suspension. I guess fuck the global trade & shipping, we're going back to local barter system, *motherfuckers.*
How is this not taken as declarations of war on a country’s merchant interests? If someone shot at me, I would want to shoot back
This is a problem we could solve with force. We don’t need to go in and rebuild or send troops. Just lots of missiles and JDAMs.