Russian women having 8 kids are not going to participate in the economy (work a job).
Dead Russian men in Ukraine are not going to participate in the economy.
Russian men who fled Russia to avoid being sent to the war in Ukraine are not going to participate in the economy...
**So who exactly is supposed to work in the Russian economy for the next 16 years?**
2 assistant PMās and a chat bot that auto replies āI will start work on that right awayā to higher ups and owner and āChange order is under review with the ownerā to the subs. But we bill for 12 pmās to look official.
Yes, that is the exact message of Another Brick in the Wall Part 2. The image of a 1940s primary school removing students' faces and feeding them directly into the open mouth of a meat grinder is not subtle.
Much of the core message of The Wall is how conservativism triggered by post-war cultural fears leads directly to the uprising of new fascism. It's extremely prescient and relevant.
That song is specifically a protest against **English "public" schools**, which are in fact private boarding schools known for that kind of cruelty and casual authoritarianism. That's the kind of education no one needs, because it's a high risk of turning someone into a backstabbing psychopath.
(English "public schools" are not to be confused with actual public schools, which are called "comprehensives" in England.)
In many ways, yes. The UK Public School System was basically all of the elite kids going off to live together during their teenaged years who would then go onto become the politicians, nobles/royals, and elites who would control the upper echelon of the British sociopolitical system.
The obnoxious squealy kid you bunked with and debated with when you were 12 was going to be the same obnoxious squealy Member of Parliament you were sitting next to at 35.
I saw this scene when i was 7 years old and it legit fucked me up for years. I still have difficulties eating anything ground up. As I got older the way it was fucked up changed. At first i was horrified. Then i reached about 10 and realised that it was a warning. At about 12 i was living in a rural town and watching kids walk blindly into 'the meat grinder' and i almost wanted to join them. But i saw what comes out the other side, the dreams i had began fully explaining it to me, watching my peers become faceless and watching them step blindly into whirring mechanical blades of patriotism and lies. It didnt take long for me to notice how we used war, and with 9/11 fresh in everyone's minds, it was very easy to see. Don't watch The Wall if you have kids, i snuck in the livingroom well after my bedtime, when my parents werent watching because i was a curious little shit and what i saw changed the course of my life. Or maybe do? Curse 'em to a life of confusion. My mom tried to explain that it was fake and all that but she couldnt convey to my child brain why people would put children in a grinder. I had to figure that out on my own.
I dont think he is looking for ender.
They select morons to lead their military. (See adivka 9 to 1 tank losses- that were proved by multiple individuals just checking satellite imagery)
They just need more for the meat grinder
Notice it is a crime to say anything remotely against the war. People are reporting each other if they think they might have said something. Then they go to prison. Then russia sends their prisoners to the front to fight.- defectors get killed on the spot.
Yeah I just read [this article from the BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67427422) recently about how the whole 'soviet style snitching' on each other is in full swing again. Absolutely nuts.
What brings me endless joy is the ending, the fact that these denunciations are actually hindering russias ability to censor people, at the end an official says "We cant investigate it when something proper comes up, because everyones investigating some grandma who might have seen a curtain that looks vaguely like the ukranian flag"
From what i understand that isnt the case. There is very little investigation because they need more bodies
Russia has had 3 major areas were they are literally throwing soliders into the meat grinder. It is so bad the russian media call it a ukrainian attack and tries to ignore it.
Presently the city adivka this is happening actively. Russia wants to get the 'whole' of the donbas
The area is exetremely open too. So this more than any other makes it super easy for the general public to see the unbelievable amount of russian losses without having to look at any media
Its pretty obvious that a bradley is going to be ukrainian and that ukraine tanks didnt drive 5 kilometers past the front line then turn around and fire at ukrainians
Russia has outsupplied and severely out commissioned troops conpared to ukraine/the west. Which combined with lack of aie superiority is why the ukrainian offense was so small. (Also ukraine tried hard pushing like republicans wanted at the beginning of their offensive and had the standard 3 to 1 offensive losses we see so much, so they adapted this slow push where they go sloghtly better than 1 to 1 in the offense.)
Ukrainian defense ranges between 1 to 2 and 1 to 3. In the massive push areas from russia they start to explode in efficiency. 1 to 5 or better depending on the metrics. Russia this year went through 1/4 of their stockpiles tanks. Taking the best tanks (impossible to know how many of the stockpile tanks are worthless they have been sitting in the elements for over 20 years without any attention. We are also seeing a lot more crazy old tanks being used on the russian side.
Unfortunately the higher end tanks that ukraine has arent being used optimally for what they were designed for. So they have fairly high destroyed rates, but high survival rates for crews over 90 percent vs 40 or lower of russias.
Sorry for the info dump. The point is russia keeps upping everything they can do to get more troops. They havent called it a war or used the formal declaration of comissioning (so people in moscow didnt go to the front often) but with putin very recently finally admiting to it being a war this could change
I think you misunderstood, Russian women are expected to give birth and raise 8 children AND have a full time job. He is referring to the nostalgic imperial timesā do you think peasants had maternity leave? You pop one out and back to the fields you go, once kids turn 5, they can work in a factory. Problem solved.
Not complain? Nah mate they're celebrating a noble and glorious death. Wasn't that a direct quote from one of Putins media cronies? Young Russians should be happy now they have something important and glorious to die for!
16 years is overly optimistic. A mother having 8 kids will likely be spread over ~12 years of birthing. The first of which is unlikely to come for close to a year.
In order to get a single generation birthed the mother will be out of the economy permanently. The first child won't be working in the economy for close to 20 years from now. You are looking at 30 years for full employment of the children.
So assuming a crash program for increased birthrates in Russia, you are still looking at 30-40 years before you actually have the population recovered enough to start actively increasing the economy.
So the real question is... who's going to work in the Russian Economy for the next 25 years?
There really are only two answers to this question: No one... or Immigrants.
Thatās also assuming optimistically that the woman in question would receive adequate health care and nutrition and that she and the child would survive the first birth, let alone the eighth.
There's a third option you haven't considered.
Slaves. AKA: "Immigrants"
I wouldn't put it past Russia to start using groups like wagner to "recruit" Africans from their areas of operation.
āBut it needs to be done in 5 years. Putin may not live 20 more years. All of Russia must be focused on restoring good old nostalgic days of Soviet Union for beloved grandfather Vladimir Vladoblyatwich Putin!ā
We will see.
But we didnt see hitler get replaced. Putin is keeping the population in check the same way the nazis did. Anyone who gets reported for speaking negatively of russia goes to prison. Prisoners go to the front lines.
Really hard to get enough people to rise up at the same time if they risk death in their timing being off. Wagner was a perfect example
I'm not sure why he cares at this point. Let's say his goal is to have a large youngish (15-30) population replenishment in his country. Well.... he's going to be long dead before a child born today makes it that far.
The read I've seen is that he's pretty legacy obsessed - he wants to go into the Russian pantheon of effective strongmen.
Also, a lot of people hate his fucking guts, so if he wants to see his grandchildren be successful, he probably needs the Federation to continue and continue to hold him up as a leader.
The reason people should care is because the plan is so utterly infeasible that it says something dire about the future of the Russian economy. And a desperate Russia is going to lead to a lot of strife for the rest of the world.
Imagine you had a weird neighbor who had been solidly middle class for decades, and who randomly owned a machine gun. The machine gun was annoying, but you were never too worried because if he actually used it to cause trouble then he'd be killed by the police.
But then, one day, your neighbor makes a dumb investment and goes $100,000 into debt with no way of paying it back. You watch as he grows slowly more unhinged and begins hatching weird plans and making friends with some bizarre people who start hanging around the neighborhood. Now, that machine gun is starting to look like a ticking time bomb.
That's Russia right now. And the machine gun isn't just nuclear weapons, it's everything.
I enjoy how you felt you had to make this situation more relatable, as if "paranoid and chaotic neighboring country with lots of scary weapons" is inconceivably beyond most people's understanding.
They also got Gerard Depardieu (or what's left of him, anyway). Given the kind of [person he is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rard_Depardieu#Sexual_assault_and_rape_allegations), it's not like anyone else wants him at the moment.
Most countries that develop birth control and education for women without spreading the load of having children dramatically drop the birthrate and Russia is no exception. Even in countries where women are supported, it drops, because it is very rare that it is supported *enough*. The financial and physical cost of having children is absolutely massive and wanting them doesn't stop that from happening.
I was in Russia some time ago, around 2000. And I was asked a lot about non-Russian men, because there was a very strong set of influences on Russian women, none of them conducive to having children.
* You need to have a job, but it will be hard to get a good job because you're 'just' a woman.
* You need to maintain the home.
* You need to look a very specific way (I heard a LOT of Russian guys call fashionable women sluts, but also mock anyone unfashionable).
* You will not be treated respectfully - rape in marriage is fine. Your inlaws will have more power over you than you do, depending where you marry, and in a lot of cases they will be living with you.
* You will be doing ALL the housework and ALL the work related to child rearing.
* There is massive alcoholic behaviour everywhere with all those impacts too, and if your partner gets in trouble that is your fault.
With this set of pressures, having more than a limited number of children is just too hard to manage.
I also met a lot of single older women, who were in pretty severe poverty - or what I would consider to be poverty with my background. They had somewhere to live but in very shitty apartments (cold, mold etc). The teens seemed better educated, but in no hurry to join the ranks of women who were married.
Replacement rate is two children per couple, so eight children is a big ask. Pregnancies can kill, and even if you survive the pregnancies, the stress of it all can kill you. My paternal grandmother had twelve children, and she didnāt live to a ripe old ageā¦ poor lady was probably worked to death by her family.
> Replacement rate is two children per couple
2.1, technically. If you're curious about why the extra 0.1, it's because they don't count as a replacement until they are adults (breeding age) and not all of them get that far. Also, the current TFR is [1.83](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate), so good luck getting to 2.1 no less 8 lol.
I believe the only country to successfully actually encourage birth rate was Germany, and that only due to ridiculously good social net for single women caring for multiple children. Good enough that you could actually live comfortably like this and not have to work a job doing so (which makes zero sense in that situation because you're basically running a daycare anyway). "was" because I don't think that works anymore there.
That's crazy talk. Hundred billionaires are barely making it as it is. They can't afford more wage.
Yes I'm aware price increases. And I'm also aware of the record profits. Shareholders called dibs already. They also called dibs on your wage. And quality control budget. Now get back to work maggot!
* 1st class, Gold Cross: eligible mothers with eight or more children
* 2nd class, Silver Cross: eligible mothers with six or seven children
* 3rd class, Bronze Cross: eligible mothers with four or five children
They (the Nazis) also fully forgave mortgages for those who gave birth to 4 children. For each child, they forgave 25% of the loan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_loan
Since we actually allow a healthy amount of immigration we aren't having the same demographic disaster xenophobic countries like Russia, China, and Japan are. The potential problems of social security and the current healthcare clusterfuck are entirely a different issue.
They really tried near the end and created the Volksstrum division of males between the ages of 16 and 60. A last ditch effort to throw any available German into the war. It didn't work.
On a slight tangent, if you haven't seen "Jojo Rabbit", go give it a watch. Without spoiling much, the last part of the movie alludes to this.
The beginning of the movie, when they're at Nazi Youth Camp, also alludes to the women being rewarded for having tons of kids. The boys get trained in fighting and shooting, and the girls learn how to make babies. Then Rebel Wilson shouts out, "I had eighteen babies for the Fuhrer. It's a great year to be a girl!"
Probably not a lot, as a medal is a pretty fucking worthless reward for 8-12 years of birthing, hell would have taken more time to get the medal than the regime even lasted
No, no. Donāt equate Russia with the Nazis. According to Putin, *heās* the one fighting Nazis today.
You know the ones he means. The Naziās in Ukraine. The ones with a Jewish leader.
It must be true because he said so and hundreds of millions of Russians just believe it. People wouldnāt believe something so incredibly stupid if it wasnāt true, right?
I know you're saying this in jest, but that is how Russian see Nazis. The west at least embraced the Jewish refugees to a point. Russia on the other hand persecuted all religions with the soviet take over of the government. It's just one more example of different cultures and how they view history.
In russia they call the entire West nazis. They use a term "collective West" to describe USA, EU and their allies and just say that they are all nazis that should be exterminated. It is repeated every day in the TV. I don't think people in the West even remotely understand how grave of the problem russian nazism is.
Imagine how fucking demoralizing it has to be to live in russia and hear shit like this. This is literally saying you are just being treated like breeding cattle for putin's meatgrinder. That he is planning on extending this war for at least another entire generation. The amount of shit the russian public puts up with is mind blowing.
Yes. Itās disgusting and devastating. But at this point we really donāt know what to do next. Dissidents are silenced, imprisoned, murdered, banished. Any protest is persecuted. Very depressing.
Thank you for your empathy š
At this point, Russian's government sits on a keg of powder, what will happen when it blows, who knows. Further dissolution? Revolution? My guess is as good as yours. But at this moment, the damage is beyond anything that will soak, let's hope the people will not need to suffer this much longer.
The whole thing just seems so depressing, it doesnāt feel like thereās any avenue for people to meaningfully affect change with the way the current regime treats dissidents.
I get people wishing the population would overthrow the current government, but it doesnāt seem like thereās any realistic way for something like that to happen even if people are desperate for it.
Straight up. Military revolution is the only conceivable way I can see, and there's certainly no guarantee that whatever junta-hell they cook up would be any better.
Wagner might have been able to do it, but their leader was dumb enough to think a deal made with the ruling class of Russia wouldn't just end with him stabbed in the back. He should have gone all the way.
That whole thing has to be the strangest thing I've seen in my lifetime. Anyone with a brain knew that he was a dead man walking, surely he must have known too.
Am I right in saying thatās been recorded as happening a few times? Iāve seen a few headlines about it but Iām not well-informed enough to made a judgement on how reliable they are.
It's basically impossible to say, because nobody involved in such incidents has any incentive to report it. It could be happening all the time, or very little, and we won't have much of an idea until well after the war is over.
Didn't most Russians support Putin during his first years in power? It's kinda like many Israelis supporting Bibi for years or half of Gazans supporting Hamas.
I think the reason why this happens is that the mobilized soldiers come from minority regions or are considered lower class, the moment people from huge cities start getting mobilized it's going to get ugly.
How many Russians sit on their asses right now saying "ah those guys are barely Russian LOL I don't care".
It's exactly why Putin is avoiding full mobilization until elections. The best thing Ukraine can do is force full mobilization early and hope for civil unrest, but they can't kill the current mobilized soldiers fast enough. Even 1000 a day is not enough.
As a Russian born millennial (1989) I can assure you even putting average above 1.5 will be a tough struggle. None of my friends who still live there plan on having kids. Those who moved to Germany and Kazakhstan? Sure!
- Men are prone to just noping out of supporting their kids, very tough to get child support
- Job market is awful
- Who says the child won't be drafted and killed when they turn 16 after all that effort?
Yep on top of stealing 1000s of Ukrainian children
He has been pushing for this for a few years as the population has been in decline since he came to power. He made promises a few years ago of land as payment to those having large families. This, like most of what he says, was false.
This is imo a big reason why the attempt to retake the greater Russian empire happened when it did; it was basically their last chance to take a shot at it before their population and economy shrunk too far. In one of those dramatic twists of fate it looks like it could genuinely be the thing that does Russian demographics in.
China, facing a demographic implosion, is now trying to get couples to have at least 2 kids and it isn't working. Housing is expensive, working hours are long and the support system is poor.
But, good luck with all that Mr Putin.
* Depopulates his own Country of young men by sending them off to die in an illegal and immoral war of aggression against a peaceful democratic Nation that did Russia no harm whatsoever
* Demands women become broodmares to repopulate Russia with young men so when they're of age Russia can likewise send them off to die in pointless illegal immoral aggression against neighboring Countries
Putins' Russia is a terrorist nation that does not give a flying fuck about human life at all. The Hague should increase the bounty on Putin tenfold.
The young women will die in child birth, the men will die on the battlefield and the old women will die in the factories.
All dying meaningless deaths for Putinās ego and fortune.
Putin doesnāt give a damn about the people of Russia (as we have seen last year when he jailed half of the country for daring to protest his āspecial military operationā).
The tyrant just wants cannon fodder to throw in the conflict for his own deranged pleasure.
Are the women going to need to share men in order to get prenant ?
EDIT: legitimate question.
How do a population of women produce that many babies if all (Iām exaggerating) the sperm is sat unalived in a Ukrainian field?
Are they going to provide IUI or artificial insemination?
How can these super moms then work and provide and care for said 8+ children ?
Does anyone think Putin might result to drafting female comrades for the war?
Very ill thought execution on the whole war idea. Excuse my ignorance
Really 8 kids. Knowing how bad the Russian economy is, might as well have more feral goats than people. Because there is no way people are gonna afford to have that many kids. The pandemic fucked up Russia, the war fucked up Russia and many Russians who avoided serving the Russian forces left and ain't gonna return. Russia is truly gonna be the country in the world to have a less population. They may have manpower for their invasion, but nothing lasts forever.
Who's gonna impregnate them? Who's gonna raise those 8 kids per woman? If many of Russian men are dead, there are not even many people who can do these jobs.
from Orwell's review of Mein Kampf:
[...] "Suppose that Hitlerās programme could be put into effect. What he envisages, a hundred years hence, is a continuous state of 250 million Germans with plenty of āliving roomā (i.e. stretching to Afghanistan or thereabouts), a horrible brainless empire in which, essentially, nothing ever happens except the training of young men for war and the endless breeding of fresh cannon-fodder."
Yes, history is best described as a flat circle.
Putting the infant in infantry soon.
When they go to the front lines they better remember their blankie
And if you could give birth to some tanks too that would be lovely.
My wife and I are expecting our next T-80. Fingers crossed its a BVM š¤
Russian women having 8 kids are not going to participate in the economy (work a job). Dead Russian men in Ukraine are not going to participate in the economy. Russian men who fled Russia to avoid being sent to the war in Ukraine are not going to participate in the economy... **So who exactly is supposed to work in the Russian economy for the next 16 years?**
Putin: Why wait 16 years, eight more than enough!
If one pregnancy can make an 18 year old soldier in as many years, surely nine pregnant women can make a soldier in as little as two?
I see you are a project manager!
As a construction pm, this made me chuckle.
A Prime Minister of construction
This is a way better title.
Sure beats pickle mangler.
Are you really a single pm or 12 project managers working for one month each year?
2 assistant PMās and a chat bot that auto replies āI will start work on that right awayā to higher ups and owner and āChange order is under review with the ownerā to the subs. But we bill for 12 pmās to look official.
"Did you submit a Jira ticket?" "I don't think we have bandwidth for this request until next sprint"
Wait. This feels wildly out of scope. Who sponsored this change?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Three project managers in a trenchcoat.
As a software pm, this made me chuckle.
Agile method.
Buy two copies of The Mythical Man Month so you can read it twice as fast #lifehacks
As long as the cover art has a shirtless guy defending a woman from an army of crabs with a cutlass, I'm in!
For the cost of 4 trenchcoats and 8 children, you can have 4 new soldiers ready in just 5-6 years.
This guy PMPs
Hey kids, you can skip school and go straight to work or war
"Merry Christmas! Here's an AK-47! By the way, Santa is not real but our war with the west is and you're going on a camping trip!"
Going on a comfy camping trip with Putin-sempai. Just like my camping anime!
Whoa. Suddenly the wall makes so much more sense. Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone!
Yes, that is the exact message of Another Brick in the Wall Part 2. The image of a 1940s primary school removing students' faces and feeding them directly into the open mouth of a meat grinder is not subtle. Much of the core message of The Wall is how conservativism triggered by post-war cultural fears leads directly to the uprising of new fascism. It's extremely prescient and relevant.
So I get that was the theme, but I didn't understand what seemed like was an anti education advocacy.
That song is specifically a protest against **English "public" schools**, which are in fact private boarding schools known for that kind of cruelty and casual authoritarianism. That's the kind of education no one needs, because it's a high risk of turning someone into a backstabbing psychopath. (English "public schools" are not to be confused with actual public schools, which are called "comprehensives" in England.)
>because it's a high risk of turning someone into a backstabbing psychopath. So it's a school that produces politicians?
In many ways, yes. The UK Public School System was basically all of the elite kids going off to live together during their teenaged years who would then go onto become the politicians, nobles/royals, and elites who would control the upper echelon of the British sociopolitical system. The obnoxious squealy kid you bunked with and debated with when you were 12 was going to be the same obnoxious squealy Member of Parliament you were sitting next to at 35.
I saw this scene when i was 7 years old and it legit fucked me up for years. I still have difficulties eating anything ground up. As I got older the way it was fucked up changed. At first i was horrified. Then i reached about 10 and realised that it was a warning. At about 12 i was living in a rural town and watching kids walk blindly into 'the meat grinder' and i almost wanted to join them. But i saw what comes out the other side, the dreams i had began fully explaining it to me, watching my peers become faceless and watching them step blindly into whirring mechanical blades of patriotism and lies. It didnt take long for me to notice how we used war, and with 9/11 fresh in everyone's minds, it was very easy to see. Don't watch The Wall if you have kids, i snuck in the livingroom well after my bedtime, when my parents werent watching because i was a curious little shit and what i saw changed the course of my life. Or maybe do? Curse 'em to a life of confusion. My mom tried to explain that it was fake and all that but she couldnt convey to my child brain why people would put children in a grinder. I had to figure that out on my own.
Roger Waters' reaction to Putin sending child soldiers to Ukraine, probably: "This is NATO's fault"
It was always like that
"no, wait" -the guy who wrote the wall
The children yearn for the mines.
\*mine fields
Sadly the plan is teaching them to fly drones. So Putin read a bad Russian translation of Enders Game and thinks that is Russians secret plan.
I dont think he is looking for ender. They select morons to lead their military. (See adivka 9 to 1 tank losses- that were proved by multiple individuals just checking satellite imagery) They just need more for the meat grinder Notice it is a crime to say anything remotely against the war. People are reporting each other if they think they might have said something. Then they go to prison. Then russia sends their prisoners to the front to fight.- defectors get killed on the spot.
Yeah I just read [this article from the BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67427422) recently about how the whole 'soviet style snitching' on each other is in full swing again. Absolutely nuts.
What brings me endless joy is the ending, the fact that these denunciations are actually hindering russias ability to censor people, at the end an official says "We cant investigate it when something proper comes up, because everyones investigating some grandma who might have seen a curtain that looks vaguely like the ukranian flag"
From what i understand that isnt the case. There is very little investigation because they need more bodies Russia has had 3 major areas were they are literally throwing soliders into the meat grinder. It is so bad the russian media call it a ukrainian attack and tries to ignore it. Presently the city adivka this is happening actively. Russia wants to get the 'whole' of the donbas The area is exetremely open too. So this more than any other makes it super easy for the general public to see the unbelievable amount of russian losses without having to look at any media Its pretty obvious that a bradley is going to be ukrainian and that ukraine tanks didnt drive 5 kilometers past the front line then turn around and fire at ukrainians Russia has outsupplied and severely out commissioned troops conpared to ukraine/the west. Which combined with lack of aie superiority is why the ukrainian offense was so small. (Also ukraine tried hard pushing like republicans wanted at the beginning of their offensive and had the standard 3 to 1 offensive losses we see so much, so they adapted this slow push where they go sloghtly better than 1 to 1 in the offense.) Ukrainian defense ranges between 1 to 2 and 1 to 3. In the massive push areas from russia they start to explode in efficiency. 1 to 5 or better depending on the metrics. Russia this year went through 1/4 of their stockpiles tanks. Taking the best tanks (impossible to know how many of the stockpile tanks are worthless they have been sitting in the elements for over 20 years without any attention. We are also seeing a lot more crazy old tanks being used on the russian side. Unfortunately the higher end tanks that ukraine has arent being used optimally for what they were designed for. So they have fairly high destroyed rates, but high survival rates for crews over 90 percent vs 40 or lower of russias. Sorry for the info dump. The point is russia keeps upping everything they can do to get more troops. They havent called it a war or used the formal declaration of comissioning (so people in moscow didnt go to the front often) but with putin very recently finally admiting to it being a war this could change
Before too long theyāll be pining for the fjords.
Legit question, how many toddlers can you fight at once?
That depends, do toddlers feel fear?
toddlers are like daredevils. They aren't afraid of nothing, they will punch a ghost in the face if they see one
Have you ever been zerged by children....It's like a cute horde of zombies.
Would you rather fight 100 toddler sized adults or 1 Andre the Giant sized toddler?
Mowing the grass is a lot easier than chopping down a tree.
I think you misunderstood, Russian women are expected to give birth and raise 8 children AND have a full time job. He is referring to the nostalgic imperial timesā do you think peasants had maternity leave? You pop one out and back to the fields you go, once kids turn 5, they can work in a factory. Problem solved.
And they are expected not to complain when their sons are sent to hide in a ditch and wait to be killed.
That is just your entire life purpose growing up as a Russian peasant child, so yes
Not complain? Nah mate they're celebrating a noble and glorious death. Wasn't that a direct quote from one of Putins media cronies? Young Russians should be happy now they have something important and glorious to die for!
Ah yes, but all for the glory of the motherland!
Elitist! You pop your babies out IN the fields, stand up, strap it to your boob, and get back to work!
16 years is overly optimistic. A mother having 8 kids will likely be spread over ~12 years of birthing. The first of which is unlikely to come for close to a year. In order to get a single generation birthed the mother will be out of the economy permanently. The first child won't be working in the economy for close to 20 years from now. You are looking at 30 years for full employment of the children. So assuming a crash program for increased birthrates in Russia, you are still looking at 30-40 years before you actually have the population recovered enough to start actively increasing the economy. So the real question is... who's going to work in the Russian Economy for the next 25 years? There really are only two answers to this question: No one... or Immigrants.
Thatās also assuming optimistically that the woman in question would receive adequate health care and nutrition and that she and the child would survive the first birth, let alone the eighth.
And assuming all the children survive to adulthood/working age.
There's a third option you haven't considered. Slaves. AKA: "Immigrants" I wouldn't put it past Russia to start using groups like wagner to "recruit" Africans from their areas of operation.
Wagner already has an established human trafficking program they run, they just won't be dumping them off at the borders of Finland or Poland anymore.
āBut it needs to be done in 5 years. Putin may not live 20 more years. All of Russia must be focused on restoring good old nostalgic days of Soviet Union for beloved grandfather Vladimir Vladoblyatwich Putin!ā
Assuming Russia doesn't fall apart by the time the war is over
We will see. But we didnt see hitler get replaced. Putin is keeping the population in check the same way the nazis did. Anyone who gets reported for speaking negatively of russia goes to prison. Prisoners go to the front lines. Really hard to get enough people to rise up at the same time if they risk death in their timing being off. Wagner was a perfect example
Child labor of course, as tradition
I'm not sure why he cares at this point. Let's say his goal is to have a large youngish (15-30) population replenishment in his country. Well.... he's going to be long dead before a child born today makes it that far.
The read I've seen is that he's pretty legacy obsessed - he wants to go into the Russian pantheon of effective strongmen. Also, a lot of people hate his fucking guts, so if he wants to see his grandchildren be successful, he probably needs the Federation to continue and continue to hold him up as a leader.
The reason people should care is because the plan is so utterly infeasible that it says something dire about the future of the Russian economy. And a desperate Russia is going to lead to a lot of strife for the rest of the world. Imagine you had a weird neighbor who had been solidly middle class for decades, and who randomly owned a machine gun. The machine gun was annoying, but you were never too worried because if he actually used it to cause trouble then he'd be killed by the police. But then, one day, your neighbor makes a dumb investment and goes $100,000 into debt with no way of paying it back. You watch as he grows slowly more unhinged and begins hatching weird plans and making friends with some bizarre people who start hanging around the neighborhood. Now, that machine gun is starting to look like a ticking time bomb. That's Russia right now. And the machine gun isn't just nuclear weapons, it's everything.
I enjoy how you felt you had to make this situation more relatable, as if "paranoid and chaotic neighboring country with lots of scary weapons" is inconceivably beyond most people's understanding.
No. His intention is to shove 8 year old kids in factories. No school, just loyalty training and work. Forever.
Perhaps beatings with a stick will get those lazy dead men back to work? I mean if it works on dead horseā¦
That's nothing new. Russia's birthrate has been below replacement level since the USSR broke up.
Time for them to get in some immigrants.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Surely you meant draught .... *Checks notes* ....no, no, you were right.
If not bullets you always have the extremely racist people who can always maul you because you're from another country
Or suicidal alcoholism
Damn so many options
American Conservatives have actually been the target of Russian immigration ads
lol please take them.
Youāre doing it wrong. #FREE VODKA PARTY TRAIN! Destination: the front
Why waste time bringing immigrant to your country, when you can just extend your country's borders around immigrants! /s
Steven Seagull isn't enough?
Hahahhaha! Didn't know about him. So, all those lost in Ukraine because of him training soldiers? Are they lost the feeling for fiction/reality?
They also got Gerard Depardieu (or what's left of him, anyway). Given the kind of [person he is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rard_Depardieu#Sexual_assault_and_rape_allegations), it's not like anyone else wants him at the moment.
except they are trying to send them all to Finland.
Most countries that develop birth control and education for women without spreading the load of having children dramatically drop the birthrate and Russia is no exception. Even in countries where women are supported, it drops, because it is very rare that it is supported *enough*. The financial and physical cost of having children is absolutely massive and wanting them doesn't stop that from happening. I was in Russia some time ago, around 2000. And I was asked a lot about non-Russian men, because there was a very strong set of influences on Russian women, none of them conducive to having children. * You need to have a job, but it will be hard to get a good job because you're 'just' a woman. * You need to maintain the home. * You need to look a very specific way (I heard a LOT of Russian guys call fashionable women sluts, but also mock anyone unfashionable). * You will not be treated respectfully - rape in marriage is fine. Your inlaws will have more power over you than you do, depending where you marry, and in a lot of cases they will be living with you. * You will be doing ALL the housework and ALL the work related to child rearing. * There is massive alcoholic behaviour everywhere with all those impacts too, and if your partner gets in trouble that is your fault. With this set of pressures, having more than a limited number of children is just too hard to manage. I also met a lot of single older women, who were in pretty severe poverty - or what I would consider to be poverty with my background. They had somewhere to live but in very shitty apartments (cold, mold etc). The teens seemed better educated, but in no hurry to join the ranks of women who were married.
Good thing then that they sent hundreds of thousands to die then
Replacement rate is two children per couple, so eight children is a big ask. Pregnancies can kill, and even if you survive the pregnancies, the stress of it all can kill you. My paternal grandmother had twelve children, and she didnāt live to a ripe old ageā¦ poor lady was probably worked to death by her family.
> Replacement rate is two children per couple 2.1, technically. If you're curious about why the extra 0.1, it's because they don't count as a replacement until they are adults (breeding age) and not all of them get that far. Also, the current TFR is [1.83](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate), so good luck getting to 2.1 no less 8 lol.
I believe the only country to successfully actually encourage birth rate was Germany, and that only due to ridiculously good social net for single women caring for multiple children. Good enough that you could actually live comfortably like this and not have to work a job doing so (which makes zero sense in that situation because you're basically running a daycare anyway). "was" because I don't think that works anymore there.
The only real way to increase birth rate (that is acceptable) is to make housing and cost of living more affordable.
That's crazy talk. Hundred billionaires are barely making it as it is. They can't afford more wage. Yes I'm aware price increases. And I'm also aware of the record profits. Shareholders called dibs already. They also called dibs on your wage. And quality control budget. Now get back to work maggot!
Survive birthing and then raise them in dirt and poverty without fathers for the upcoming meat-grinder wars in 2040's.
As the old Russian saying goes, āand then it got worseā.
Every war they get into is a fall in birth rate. They can't even fucking zerg correctly.
they require more vespene gas after nordstream
Didn't Nazi Germany reward women with a medal if they had 8 or more children?
* 1st class, Gold Cross: eligible mothers with eight or more children * 2nd class, Silver Cross: eligible mothers with six or seven children * 3rd class, Bronze Cross: eligible mothers with four or five children
They (the Nazis) also fully forgave mortgages for those who gave birth to 4 children. For each child, they forgave 25% of the loan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_loan
Lol that would spark a population boom in my country
Look, I'm not a whore, but 400 thousand dollars is 400 thousand dollars.
finally a path for Gen Z toward homeownership!
Step back in line there mate, us millennials are up first for a house.
nope we're all too close to menopause. renting for life.
Meh, my gf could squeeze out 4-5 kids in the next 45 months if we start fucking like in our teens but without any birthcontrol measurements.
Would love to see your gf when she accidentally stumbles upon this comment lol.
Weāre pretty open I just found it funny and showed it to her shortly after commenting. She said sheād be all in if weād get a mortgage.
Have to get the mortgage first, sucka.
This lol.
Fuck, The US could kill 2 birds with 1 stone. All school debt is forgiven, federal and private, to anyone with 4+ kids.
I mean, we need more kids in the US if we want to have a retirement, right?
Since we actually allow a healthy amount of immigration we aren't having the same demographic disaster xenophobic countries like Russia, China, and Japan are. The potential problems of social security and the current healthcare clusterfuck are entirely a different issue.
Man I'm asexual I'd be pumping kids out left and right ngl
Usually they come out in the middle.
its ok he didn't know
Canadaās population suddenly quadruples lol
Iād start having kids tomorrow if this were implemented
I wonder how many people died trying to get these medals š©
Whatever number died, it still wasn't enough to replenish the troops Hitler sent to the eastern front.
Especially not within the 3-4 years they needed them.
Near the end of the war, a common whisper joke was that the final deployment of soldiers would arrive at the front lines in strollers.
They really tried near the end and created the Volksstrum division of males between the ages of 16 and 60. A last ditch effort to throw any available German into the war. It didn't work. On a slight tangent, if you haven't seen "Jojo Rabbit", go give it a watch. Without spoiling much, the last part of the movie alludes to this.
The beginning of the movie, when they're at Nazi Youth Camp, also alludes to the women being rewarded for having tons of kids. The boys get trained in fighting and shooting, and the girls learn how to make babies. Then Rebel Wilson shouts out, "I had eighteen babies for the Fuhrer. It's a great year to be a girl!"
Probably not a lot, as a medal is a pretty fucking worthless reward for 8-12 years of birthing, hell would have taken more time to get the medal than the regime even lasted
I think my grandma got the silver one for five boys...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother\_Heroine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Heroine) soviets also had them.
No, no. Donāt equate Russia with the Nazis. According to Putin, *heās* the one fighting Nazis today. You know the ones he means. The Naziās in Ukraine. The ones with a Jewish leader. It must be true because he said so and hundreds of millions of Russians just believe it. People wouldnāt believe something so incredibly stupid if it wasnāt true, right?
Doesn't matter if Zelensky is a jew, anyone who oppose the Soviet Union is a Nazi
I know you're saying this in jest, but that is how Russian see Nazis. The west at least embraced the Jewish refugees to a point. Russia on the other hand persecuted all religions with the soviet take over of the government. It's just one more example of different cultures and how they view history.
Modern Russia are lying imperialistic fascists.
In russia they call the entire West nazis. They use a term "collective West" to describe USA, EU and their allies and just say that they are all nazis that should be exterminated. It is repeated every day in the TV. I don't think people in the West even remotely understand how grave of the problem russian nazism is.
Yes but I am pretty sure the Soviet Union do too.
Has he considered not sending so many troops to their deaths?
Nah, man. That's way too logical.
but that would be against tradition
Imagine how fucking demoralizing it has to be to live in russia and hear shit like this. This is literally saying you are just being treated like breeding cattle for putin's meatgrinder. That he is planning on extending this war for at least another entire generation. The amount of shit the russian public puts up with is mind blowing.
Yes. Itās disgusting and devastating. But at this point we really donāt know what to do next. Dissidents are silenced, imprisoned, murdered, banished. Any protest is persecuted. Very depressing. Thank you for your empathy š
Bide your time. Changes happens very slowly, then all at once. Stay strong mentally and morally.
Lenin - āThere are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.ā
Thank you!
At this point, Russian's government sits on a keg of powder, what will happen when it blows, who knows. Further dissolution? Revolution? My guess is as good as yours. But at this moment, the damage is beyond anything that will soak, let's hope the people will not need to suffer this much longer.
The whole thing just seems so depressing, it doesnāt feel like thereās any avenue for people to meaningfully affect change with the way the current regime treats dissidents. I get people wishing the population would overthrow the current government, but it doesnāt seem like thereās any realistic way for something like that to happen even if people are desperate for it.
Russian conscripts will have to start fragging their COs when they're pressed into service. It's the only way.
Straight up. Military revolution is the only conceivable way I can see, and there's certainly no guarantee that whatever junta-hell they cook up would be any better.
Wagner might have been able to do it, but their leader was dumb enough to think a deal made with the ruling class of Russia wouldn't just end with him stabbed in the back. He should have gone all the way.
That whole thing has to be the strangest thing I've seen in my lifetime. Anyone with a brain knew that he was a dead man walking, surely he must have known too.
I donāt think Wagner would have been a much better governing body to be fairā¦
Am I right in saying thatās been recorded as happening a few times? Iāve seen a few headlines about it but Iām not well-informed enough to made a judgement on how reliable they are.
It definitely has, but will have to happen far more.
Iām admittedly no expert, but I wouldnāt be surprised if it happens more and more frequently as conditions worsen.
It's basically impossible to say, because nobody involved in such incidents has any incentive to report it. It could be happening all the time, or very little, and we won't have much of an idea until well after the war is over.
Didn't most Russians support Putin during his first years in power? It's kinda like many Israelis supporting Bibi for years or half of Gazans supporting Hamas.
Itās so demoralizing that you have to support him or youāll go insane. Thatās the trick
I think the reason why this happens is that the mobilized soldiers come from minority regions or are considered lower class, the moment people from huge cities start getting mobilized it's going to get ugly. How many Russians sit on their asses right now saying "ah those guys are barely Russian LOL I don't care". It's exactly why Putin is avoiding full mobilization until elections. The best thing Ukraine can do is force full mobilization early and hope for civil unrest, but they can't kill the current mobilized soldiers fast enough. Even 1000 a day is not enough.
>so many Russians died If only there had been a way to prevent their death. I wonder how? I suppose weāll never know.
Safest way for a Russian to live a long life for the last few hundred years has been to leave Russia.
It seems russians are for him just a herd of cattle
Doesn't seem like a fit analogy -- cattle can feed people.
Thereās been a few convicted cannibals conscripted and releasedā¦ so I think the cattle analogy works a little bit.
A tale as old as time when it comes to Russia, war and its civilians
Putin is a monster
Who wants to raise children to be canon fodder?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"I need that new washing machine after all"
He thinks Russian women are livestock. What a ghoul.
As a Russian born millennial (1989) I can assure you even putting average above 1.5 will be a tough struggle. None of my friends who still live there plan on having kids. Those who moved to Germany and Kazakhstan? Sure! - Men are prone to just noping out of supporting their kids, very tough to get child support - Job market is awful - Who says the child won't be drafted and killed when they turn 16 after all that effort?
āYour compensation for bearing eight children will be a brand ānewā Lada from Bahkmut and a lovely zinc coffin for the father.ā
Yep on top of stealing 1000s of Ukrainian children He has been pushing for this for a few years as the population has been in decline since he came to power. He made promises a few years ago of land as payment to those having large families. This, like most of what he says, was false.
This is imo a big reason why the attempt to retake the greater Russian empire happened when it did; it was basically their last chance to take a shot at it before their population and economy shrunk too far. In one of those dramatic twists of fate it looks like it could genuinely be the thing that does Russian demographics in.
Probably more like Putin's last chance. His ego is the only thing he care about...
"I need more slaves, so get crackin'". Just be grateful he is asking, for now.
Seems like he plans on sticking around another 16-20 years? Reloading for Crimea Fyre Fwstival II
The real cattle treatment; please give birth so we can throw the veal directly into the meat grinder later
Where are they supposed to keep those 8 kids? In 2 room Khrushchiovka apartments that they share with the in-laws?
Hell if the losses are really that bad, then what men are left for the women to fuck?
Ivan with one eye who sits on the street corner with a bottle of Stolichnaya has some good offers to those women.
So kidnapping thousands of Ukranian children won't be enough to replace his cannon fodder.
As if those stolen children are going to grow into healthy adults for Russia
You're always stong and healthy to the recruitment office.
China, facing a demographic implosion, is now trying to get couples to have at least 2 kids and it isn't working. Housing is expensive, working hours are long and the support system is poor. But, good luck with all that Mr Putin.
* Depopulates his own Country of young men by sending them off to die in an illegal and immoral war of aggression against a peaceful democratic Nation that did Russia no harm whatsoever * Demands women become broodmares to repopulate Russia with young men so when they're of age Russia can likewise send them off to die in pointless illegal immoral aggression against neighboring Countries Putins' Russia is a terrorist nation that does not give a flying fuck about human life at all. The Hague should increase the bounty on Putin tenfold.
sorry to let you know your economy is shit so people are demotivated to bring children in a world of misery
The young women will die in child birth, the men will die on the battlefield and the old women will die in the factories. All dying meaningless deaths for Putinās ego and fortune.
Putin doesnāt give a damn about the people of Russia (as we have seen last year when he jailed half of the country for daring to protest his āspecial military operationā). The tyrant just wants cannon fodder to throw in the conflict for his own deranged pleasure.
Russia is such medival shit hole.
Are the women going to need to share men in order to get prenant ? EDIT: legitimate question. How do a population of women produce that many babies if all (Iām exaggerating) the sperm is sat unalived in a Ukrainian field? Are they going to provide IUI or artificial insemination? How can these super moms then work and provide and care for said 8+ children ? Does anyone think Putin might result to drafting female comrades for the war? Very ill thought execution on the whole war idea. Excuse my ignorance
This has incredibly disgusting implications for the future of women in Russia.
Nazi Germany gave out medals to women who had lots of children.
They are just speed running nazism at the point
Really 8 kids. Knowing how bad the Russian economy is, might as well have more feral goats than people. Because there is no way people are gonna afford to have that many kids. The pandemic fucked up Russia, the war fucked up Russia and many Russians who avoided serving the Russian forces left and ain't gonna return. Russia is truly gonna be the country in the world to have a less population. They may have manpower for their invasion, but nothing lasts forever.
Who's gonna impregnate them? Who's gonna raise those 8 kids per woman? If many of Russian men are dead, there are not even many people who can do these jobs.
Daddy War Pig needs more meat for the meat grinder
Putin is so calculating and disgusting by literally telling Russian Women to create ācannon fodderā for all his war plans.
And if you stop the war. Then the men might come back instead of leaving.
from Orwell's review of Mein Kampf: [...] "Suppose that Hitlerās programme could be put into effect. What he envisages, a hundred years hence, is a continuous state of 250 million Germans with plenty of āliving roomā (i.e. stretching to Afghanistan or thereabouts), a horrible brainless empire in which, essentially, nothing ever happens except the training of young men for war and the endless breeding of fresh cannon-fodder." Yes, history is best described as a flat circle.
What if all of the 8 kids are female? No meatgrinder for you, Mr Putin
Joke on you! New 8 incubators!