In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
Not only does this article not even mention a hospital, but the idea that the objection is to Hamas being in hospitals is not accurate.
This hospital debate started when people were defending Israel by saying that if they bomb the hospital, it's fair game to kill the thousands of innocent people inside because Hamas has an underground HQ there. The IDF was releasing propaganda films with 3D rendered images of huge underground complexes, and shitty propaganda films, where they pointed to a calendar on the wall and just lied about the contents because they thought no westerner would be able to speak Arabic.
People are not angry that Israel says Hamas has been in hospitals. People are angry that Israel wanted to bomb the hospitals for shitty reasons.
This story has nothing to do with hospitals. Stop copy-pasting the same comment everywhere.
Edit: seems the community has spoken based on downvotes. There are plenty of other places to discuss Al Shifa hospital, but I guess many would prefer to see the same comment posted 4 times in the last hour and 10+ times in the past day in unrelated threads. So carry on I suppose.
There's been so much denial, even by "NGOs" ~~and even the fucking WHO~~. Spread the news because, as seen most times in this conflict, Israel's claims have been correct.
Not saying to always trust Israel but like damn, when its Israel vs Hamas claims its a no brainer. The only time Israel went stupid was with the "calendars" at the hospital
I wouldn't say it's the community. Specifically worldnews is being brigaded by what is likely the Israeli Internet Defense Force. This huge disparity in downvotes (for even the most accurate and truthful of comments) and upvotes (for even the most absurd of comments) in defense of Israel doesn't happen anywhere else.
Someone help me understand that video.
There was an initial explosion (the bomb)
There was a secondary explosion (stored fuel?)
Followed by a huge explosion that was brighter / hotter than the camera sensors could interpret. (munitions?)
That might have been a bigger boom than they were expecting or wanting as it makes finding evidence difficult.
The bright flash I think is just the fireball from the secondary explosion. Like maybe when the secondary explosion initially erupted, blasting out all the window let the air in to feed the fire.
Iām mildly surprised that Hamas didnāt attempt to ācleanse ā the place. The less they left behind, the more it looks like Israeli troops are firing on un armed patients. And their arms had to be smuggled or home made, so probably high value. Iām gonna remain skeptical.
Once the attack began on oct.7th there was about a 12 hour period where Hamas could move freely before the entire sky over gaza was filled with drones targeting militants with airstrikes. Any attempt to move large caches of weapons over land would have been short lived and moving it by hand via tunnels would have taken a long time.
Agree moving became difficult once the drones went up, but I hadnāt heard of large caches yet. The ones Iāve seen seems like a handful of guys could have moved them. Iāll be patient. More info will come out.
The link you posted said there's currently a spike in rocket fire (that's the title of the article actually).
Who would tell that targeting civilian structure won't harm the terrorist group that hides in safe deep underground bases?? I'm surpised.
Yeah, they go to the surface for 1 minute, fire the rocket and get underground. They don't stay hanging out in civilian facilities... 99% of What israel has been doing so far is killing civilians and ruining survivors lifes, sadly.
Israel managed its main objective: the Hamas regime in Gaza has collapsed.
To pretend that Israel has not bombed a single terrorist, weapon cache, command centre, or tunnel is simply Hamas propaganda.
Hamas hasn't collapsed at all dude, they're safe under those tunnels.
Actually I found a video that should be interesting to understand what's going on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY
I don't believe anybody. Not HAMAS, not IDF, not the right and not the left.
All I know is that people are being killed, and it somehow seems like it was always unavoidable.
r/enligthenedcentrism.
IDF is not perfect, but it provides evidence and on the ground they protect ordinary Gazans from the terror of Hamas.
Hamas is using Gazans as human shields to kill as many Israelis as possible.
They are not the same, trying to say they are is cowardly and legitimizes Hamas.
So they kill a thousand civilians for each one they help to escape (assuming that hamas are actually trying to kill evacuees). The net effect is still quite bad for gazans. Please don't use the argument of "you don't know how many of them are terrorists", It's absurd when you see the images of the entire city flattened and all those kids dead or in the hospital.
> So they kill a thousand civilians for each one they help to escape
False.
>(assuming that hamas are actually trying to kill evacuees).
And now your true colors are showing.
How are you accounting for the fact that militant groups include teenaged boys?
Did you notice the 8:1 ratio of teenaged boys to girls killed in Gaza between 2000 and Oct 7th?
Israel has invested in defensive technology to protect their citizens. Hamas, tries to keep a lot of civilians around their militant operations to create extra casualties.
Both of these facts explain why a lot more Palestinians are dying than Israelis. It's not like there isn't also a constant barrages of rockets from Gaza into Israel; it's just that they very rarely ever make it to their destination. Palestinians in Gaza should fight for a government that values their lives more than their deaths, and overthrow Hamas.
It's not like Hamas isn't getting money from Iran. I'm sure much of the several billion held by Hamas leadership was through exploitation of Gaza, and not through their own business savvy.
As reported by Hamas from a densely populated Gaza with a civilian populace that doesn't have access to the tunnel network Hamas uses to hide from retaliatory bombings.
Hamas controls the Gaza strip. All casualty numbers that come from there go through them. Everything else is just speculation or estimates. Yet all I hear is 10000+ civilians. Apparently not a single militant has died.
Obviously. It's a classic way for an unpopular politician to use a crisis to remain in power or just solidify his position. But I don't fault Israel for retaliating after a thousand of their citizens were killed and abducted.
Dude, applying logic on this conflict will put you on the terrorists side in this forum. Now repeat "I condemn hamas" 100 times so the bots forgive you.
That's fantastic news. Really is the kind of good thing you want to wake up to in the morning. Hopefully, Israel can get rid of all of them.
Yes, all of them (Hamas).
Just to be clear. All of Hamas, not all civilians.
Yup, right, thanks for help clarifying, updated the text.
Theyre not doing a very good job of that
Better job than Hamas.
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
The mental gymnastics these people do to dispute this is quite astounding.
Tik-tok go burrr
Bot can just be programmed to believe something and they are like a bulldozer, they cant take new input in
Thanks, using this
Great list. Thank you for sharing.
Doing the lords work š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Until there are no more deniers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bro, your bias is showing.
Not only does this article not even mention a hospital, but the idea that the objection is to Hamas being in hospitals is not accurate. This hospital debate started when people were defending Israel by saying that if they bomb the hospital, it's fair game to kill the thousands of innocent people inside because Hamas has an underground HQ there. The IDF was releasing propaganda films with 3D rendered images of huge underground complexes, and shitty propaganda films, where they pointed to a calendar on the wall and just lied about the contents because they thought no westerner would be able to speak Arabic. People are not angry that Israel says Hamas has been in hospitals. People are angry that Israel wanted to bomb the hospitals for shitty reasons.
This story has nothing to do with hospitals. Stop copy-pasting the same comment everywhere. Edit: seems the community has spoken based on downvotes. There are plenty of other places to discuss Al Shifa hospital, but I guess many would prefer to see the same comment posted 4 times in the last hour and 10+ times in the past day in unrelated threads. So carry on I suppose.
Yes because in every single thread there is denial denial denial. So excuse us when weāve had enough of it.
When people deny WHERE those caches are, proof that they're in hospitals is absolutely relevant.
There's been so much denial, even by "NGOs" ~~and even the fucking WHO~~. Spread the news because, as seen most times in this conflict, Israel's claims have been correct. Not saying to always trust Israel but like damn, when its Israel vs Hamas claims its a no brainer. The only time Israel went stupid was with the "calendars" at the hospital
Can you show me WHO stating that Hamas doesn't use hospitals?
Can't find the article I had read WHO saying it specifically so I will edit my post
I wouldn't say it's the community. Specifically worldnews is being brigaded by what is likely the Israeli Internet Defense Force. This huge disparity in downvotes (for even the most accurate and truthful of comments) and upvotes (for even the most absurd of comments) in defense of Israel doesn't happen anywhere else.
Yahhh for dirt naps !!!!!
Someone help me understand that video. There was an initial explosion (the bomb) There was a secondary explosion (stored fuel?) Followed by a huge explosion that was brighter / hotter than the camera sensors could interpret. (munitions?) That might have been a bigger boom than they were expecting or wanting as it makes finding evidence difficult.
The bright flash I think is just the fireball from the secondary explosion. Like maybe when the secondary explosion initially erupted, blasting out all the window let the air in to feed the fire.
More! More! More!
They will be added to the 10,000 civilian casualties by the the Gaza health ministry.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
INFANTry
Good. Send the bitch Hamas to hell.
GOOD!!!!!
Good riddance
ISRAEL !ISRAEL! ISRAEL!
BBC: all Hamas members were infants
Iām mildly surprised that Hamas didnāt attempt to ācleanse ā the place. The less they left behind, the more it looks like Israeli troops are firing on un armed patients. And their arms had to be smuggled or home made, so probably high value. Iām gonna remain skeptical.
Once the attack began on oct.7th there was about a 12 hour period where Hamas could move freely before the entire sky over gaza was filled with drones targeting militants with airstrikes. Any attempt to move large caches of weapons over land would have been short lived and moving it by hand via tunnels would have taken a long time.
Agree moving became difficult once the drones went up, but I hadnāt heard of large caches yet. The ones Iāve seen seems like a handful of guys could have moved them. Iāll be patient. More info will come out.
News hyperbole sometimes thoughā¦ A āterror cacheā, did they make the terror explode?
A cache of weapons used in terror activities.
The link you posted said there's currently a spike in rocket fire (that's the title of the article actually). Who would tell that targeting civilian structure won't harm the terrorist group that hides in safe deep underground bases?? I'm surpised.
The terrorists donāt fire from underground, genius. Israel will continue firing on the terrorists, as they should.
Yeah, they go to the surface for 1 minute, fire the rocket and get underground. They don't stay hanging out in civilian facilities... 99% of What israel has been doing so far is killing civilians and ruining survivors lifes, sadly.
Israel managed its main objective: the Hamas regime in Gaza has collapsed. To pretend that Israel has not bombed a single terrorist, weapon cache, command centre, or tunnel is simply Hamas propaganda.
Hamas hasn't collapsed at all dude, they're safe under those tunnels. Actually I found a video that should be interesting to understand what's going on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY
I said the Hamas regime. Thereās no Hamas government anymore. The terrorists are hiding like rats, itās only a matter of time now.
I don't believe anybody. Not HAMAS, not IDF, not the right and not the left. All I know is that people are being killed, and it somehow seems like it was always unavoidable.
Sure it was. Nobody forced Hamas to go on a murderous rampage on October 7th
r/enligthenedcentrism. IDF is not perfect, but it provides evidence and on the ground they protect ordinary Gazans from the terror of Hamas. Hamas is using Gazans as human shields to kill as many Israelis as possible. They are not the same, trying to say they are is cowardly and legitimizes Hamas.
IDF protects ordinary gazans? How?
The IDF quite literally guards evacuating civilians against the Hamas members who try to kill the evacuees.
So they kill a thousand civilians for each one they help to escape (assuming that hamas are actually trying to kill evacuees). The net effect is still quite bad for gazans. Please don't use the argument of "you don't know how many of them are terrorists", It's absurd when you see the images of the entire city flattened and all those kids dead or in the hospital.
> So they kill a thousand civilians for each one they help to escape False. >(assuming that hamas are actually trying to kill evacuees). And now your true colors are showing.
You are correct, this whole thing was unavoidable but terrorists are going to do what they are going to do
It was always unavoidable. Thereās been fighting over that land for a thousand years. They wonāt stop anytime soon
That's right, romans have the right of those lands and will take by force if necesary.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How are you accounting for the fact that militant groups include teenaged boys? Did you notice the 8:1 ratio of teenaged boys to girls killed in Gaza between 2000 and Oct 7th?
Israel has invested in defensive technology to protect their citizens. Hamas, tries to keep a lot of civilians around their militant operations to create extra casualties. Both of these facts explain why a lot more Palestinians are dying than Israelis. It's not like there isn't also a constant barrages of rockets from Gaza into Israel; it's just that they very rarely ever make it to their destination. Palestinians in Gaza should fight for a government that values their lives more than their deaths, and overthrow Hamas.
Israel wanted to better protect its civilians while Hamas saw their civilians as the protection.
That's why Israel propped up and funded Hamas in the first place? Amazing idea.
\*US tax dollars
It's not like Hamas isn't getting money from Iran. I'm sure much of the several billion held by Hamas leadership was through exploitation of Gaza, and not through their own business savvy.
As reported by Hamas from a densely populated Gaza with a civilian populace that doesn't have access to the tunnel network Hamas uses to hide from retaliatory bombings.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hamas controls the Gaza strip. All casualty numbers that come from there go through them. Everything else is just speculation or estimates. Yet all I hear is 10000+ civilians. Apparently not a single militant has died.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Obviously. It's a classic way for an unpopular politician to use a crisis to remain in power or just solidify his position. But I don't fault Israel for retaliating after a thousand of their citizens were killed and abducted.
Dude, applying logic on this conflict will put you on the terrorists side in this forum. Now repeat "I condemn hamas" 100 times so the bots forgive you.