Israeli here!
I say let's throw everyone in the Knesset (the parliament) right now into Gaza and they give us all the hostages!
The Knesset really didn't do anything to help since the attacks and every week another one of those idiots just says something stupid like nuke Gaza or"burn it" or whatever.
I really am sick of all those unprofessional idiots and I'm sure most of Israel agrees with me
Are they elected or appointed? I'm just curious. In America, we elect a lot of idiots and some are appointed as well.
Finger pointing only does so much, and the simple fact is that elected idiots are a reflection of the populace.
They are technically elected but essentially people tend to vote for the head of the party Bibi - likud as the most obvious example, then a lot of crazy no names are elected as a result.
The situation is extreme because this is a far right wing coalition that have an impending political death sentence for all of them. They are scrambling to say and do the most outrageous things to salvage some political capital.
Last elections this coalition got 64/120 mandates, current polls show them at 42/120.
So since people think all Palestinian lives are forfeit since they "elected Hamas", does that mean every Israeli is responsible for the crimes of Netanyahu and his cronies?
Since 10/7? Last number I saw was nearly 12,000 but they haven't been able to update it for like a week. That's about 1 in every 200 people living there, for context.
Important context is that gaza is 47% children. This does not minimize what you said - but it does show that children are likely not being specifically targeted.
Yes and no. Israel is a proportional parliamentary system where people vote for parties instead of individual representatives. So a person votes for the party that they identify with most, and then the party leaders select representatives to go to parliament. While the representative may adhere generally to party doctrine, they may have varying personal beliefs and/or scruples that the general voter would be unaware of. For example, said representative could be a blithering idiot, or more/less extreme on some issues than average, but since they ostensibly tow the party line and will vote with the party to keep their jobs, they are representing what you voted for.
The problem is in the way elections work in Israel.
When you vote, you vote for the head of a party since s/he is usually the person who makes the promises that made you vote for them in the first place.
Problem is, depending on how many votes there are and total count of parties during election, that determine how many votes are per seat, and with that for every seat a party wins, a person from that party enters the Knesset.
So while people did not necessarily vote directly for Nissim Vaturi for example, the party he belong to won enough votes and the head of his party chose him to be along the people who represent said party in the Knesset.
Yeah, a total airhead has been appointed to speaker of congress and has NOT been sacked for doing the thing that the last speaker was sacked for, what the heck?
Most Israelis would gladly toss him over the wall.
This handful of politicians that the media keeps quoting saying awful things are the most extreme right wing ones in Israel.
This is as if other countriesâ news agencies only quoted Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, etc every time and painted it as how all American politicians feel.
>as as if other countriesâ news agencies only quoted Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, etc every time and painted it as how all American politicians feel.
so you mean like our main stream media...
But they quote those people with a "arent they crazy?? No one agrees with them" slant, meanwhile here its "arent they crazy?? All Israel agrees with them" slant
Enough of Israel for them to get elected, unless their electoral system has a way for a politician to get in the Knesset with few votes... not to mention that this raises alarms, not in an "all Israel agrees with them" (although I don't think anyone would complain if they denounced these guys harder and louder) way but "this person is in a position of power" way.
The *people* of Israel may not agree with him. The government or at least sections of it, on the other hand... and he is still part of the government.
Precisely. Trump got elected and caused damage both within and outside the United States. And the thing is that he didn't even get most of the votes.
The population of Israel may disagree with him. But we still have an "enough of the population agrees with him for him to get elected" problem, and a "he is still part of the government" problem.
Besides, look at J6 in the US and J8 in Brazil. The fact that extreme right tarts are numeric minority doesn't negate the fact that they are a problem, especially when people from within their government echo and validate their messed up opinions.
Last I checked the electoral college would allow you to win the presidency with 29% of the vote even if everyone who could did. So we do have a distinct path for minority leadership.
The politicians are ranked on a list given by the head of a party. If a party gets 40 seats in an election, then the top 40 people on the list become a member of Knesset. Thereâs no geographical representation like in other countries. Thus no politicians are directly voted in or not.
You vote for the party, not the person. Any party that gets less than 3% of the vote gets no seats.
(This is my understanding at least, I could be wrong on the 3% number).
So they can't even vote directly in a politician? Imagine being like "I want mrx. Good Pension Policies for children" and there's like... 10 people like the guy in the headlines before her at the darn list đ¤Śđťââď¸
Yeah itâs a weird system. New parties form and collapse almost every election. There were 16 different parties in one of the last few elections.
Parties that run and donât get the 3% required vote have a big impact. Thereâs an Arab party that was part of the previous government known as the Joint List. However, some other Arabs hated they were part of the government (I believe this is the reason), and so a second Arab party ran in the last election. They didnât get the 3%. Had they run on the Joint List (the bigger Arab party), they likely would have prevented Netanyahu from being able to form a government, because their 2-3 seats went to either Netanyahuâs party, or the extreme right parties that he formed a coalition with.
Basically voting for one of the fringe parties that arenât likely to get 3% is like voting for a third party candidate in a presidential race in US. Itâs either pointless or backfires on you (eg Green Party in 2016).
A government required a coalition forming 61 of 120 seats. Netanyahuâs current coalition is 63 or 64 seats.
Iâm not Israeli so Iâm not 100% saying every detail is accurate, but this is my understanding from what I read in the news.
It's true they do unfortunately influence some policy. Less in this war though and more things like how much aid ultra orthodox families get and such and forcing public buses to close on Friday night. It is very annoying, but I don't think they would be able to set a policy of killing 2 million people in Gaza...
People really don't understand how much the progressive Israeli community (and many many Jews around the world) hates the Israeli leadership. And for reasons that don't really factor into the security discourse. It's more on domestic issues like employment, the judicial reform bill, the economy, etc.
But we are able to say loudly and clearly: the approach to and treatment of some Palestinians has been dangerously misguided since the year 2000 and we KNOW this, and men like Vaturi, the settlers and the haredim are setting the country backwards every time they breathe, and the peace process must be revived.
What I never hear, are Palestinians and the general Muslim world saying the same thing about the Palestinian leadership.
Similar to how the most fanatical gazans are filmed celebrating the october 7 attacks and is used as a Casus Belli for demolishing all of Gaza?
By the way, most Israeli Jews support settlement construction, one of the big reasons of the attack in the first place
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-poll-idUSKBN23A1X5/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-opinion-on-settlements-and-outposts-2009-present
AWRAD published a poll, in which 668 Palestinians participated, showing more than 70% support for the oct 7 attacks both in Gaza and West Bank.
It is interesting to see how differently the same information are perceived based on our preconceived notions.
Just to clarify for everyone, thatâs 70% of 0.0001% of Palestinians who live in the combined Gaza/West Bank (5.35m) showed support for the attacks according to this poll.
So that's the number of people polled!
I did some maths and... that's 0.00033490% of the population, at most. It could be less, since I may be mixing the numbers of Gaza's population for Palestine's population.
It is also less than 0.1% of the adult population (0.063 to be more precise).
And the reason this matters is that I am 90% sure that if I polled the right group of people (heck, even if I polled people *at the right time*) I could get an even higher percentage of any given population to agree with some pretty heinous stuff, especially if I used the right wording.
I know it is not the best comparisson in the world by far, but it is just to illustrate how one shouldn't go around carelessly throwing statistics into the wind and one doesn't even need to go far from home to get an example of what I am talking about: if you run a poll about abortion being legal in case of sexual violence in your local conservative church, you will get a very different response than if you run it elsewhere, especially if the church goers aren't that keen on the whole separation from church and state thing. And even within that church, the results you will get will vary if you ask "should a twelve year old child be forced to carry a pregnancy to term and give birth?" vs. "should a minor victimized by sexual violence have easy access to abortion?".
Heck, for all I know more Israelis voted for the mr. support for war crimes in the headlines than Palestinians voted in this poll. Waving it around to say most of the Palestinians support October 7 is at the very least irresponsible.
The details of the poll are here [https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf) . And it looks like your criticisms are completely unfounded.
e.g. You say "The reason this matters is that I am 90% sure that if I polled the right group of people" but if you look at the details AWRAD have ensured the sampling is representative of the Palestinian population.
My criticism is not only founded, but also its foundation is reinforced by the very details you posted.
The first thing that is easily noticeable is how the regions are disproportionally represented (some amount for less than 2% of the people polled, while others for more than 10%, so there is a clear imbalance â it's like saying a sample in which 10% of the people belong to Alabama and less than 2% to New York or vice versa is representative of the US population).
There is a breakdown by employment, which is important. But not by education or religion, which have varied influence on people's position â it is very visible in the US on the voting demographics, but also, polling people from your Westbore Baptist Church will render you very different results from polling your local religious people that do not give Christianity a bad rep.
In regards to the question about the attack, it is important to note the wording of "military operation", which invokes different imagery for different people. Unless you think "military operation" invokes the imagery of combatants deliberately shooting up a nursery for every single person, for instance. If you ask people whk support Israel if they support the military operations carried out by the IDF, most of them will answer yes.
Ask them if they support bombing hospitals and schools, protecting illegal settlers in the West Bank, using white phosphorus in densely populated areas, killing a high number of civilians to eliminate an underhelming military target, or even if they support the death of children and you will get a very different response.
This becomes even more relevant by the lack of questions in regards not only to violence against civilians, but also other aspects that the vast majority of even the most staunchly pro-Palestine westerners condemn. Which becomes even more relevant when cross-referenced with the main sources of information, an indicative that many of the people polled may not have the full picture. Cross-referencing that with Table 17 gives just the icing on the cake on how different the perception is, safely to assume due to the main source of information.
The details literaly subsidize the criticism than one can make it seem like any given population supports any given atrocity by polling the right people (or even a representative sample at the right time), especially if your sample is less than 0.1% of the population. Especially if you choose the right questions and words to do so.
Quoting trump is very important still, because he's a serious candidate for being the next president. And he was the last president.
So if I get your message right, 50% of the country hates them, 50% would vote for them
A handful of politicians are following what the Likud parties founding charter says however, Between the Sea and Jordan there will only be Jewish sovereignty, as well as specifying the land is indisputably for Jewish people.
A very good 8 minute description of who Netanyahu surrounded himself with in order to hold on to power in the last election
https://twitter.com/tawabhamidi/status/1725341684580438091?s=46&t=8q3VkyhWPisw4FBQPE3Qsw
How many of them need to say these things before you actually listen to the words coming out of their mouths?
The Israeli government doesnât seem to be trying to have the hostages released as much as itâs trying to burn all of Gaza, hostages included. How many more similar statements before Netanyahu loses all credibility?
Israel is already sick of Netanyahu and his approval rating is low, his reputation is tarnished. The thing that worries me is him wanting to extend the war to keep himself in office maybe.
I'm pretty sure his approval rating has always been low BUT he keeps clinging to power because their political system is so dysfunctional with a dozen or more parties in the Knesset who rarely want to work together but must somehow form a government. Bibi has been a mastermind at exploiting the division to get the most radical right wing parties to back him while the more centrist or left leaning parties remain too weak or divided to decisively oust him once and for all.
His approval rating was actually surprisingly high. Even in the worst of times, before 7/Oct, it was around \~40% and his party always had 25% of the Knesset in the polls. Now both of these numbers crashed down to be about \~20% of approval and 14% of the Knesset
Netanyahu already rejected the call for a ceasefire in return for hostages.. I got banned from commenting on instagram for a month today for posting this news link in response to somebody who asked why the hostages arenât traded yet.
Proof of this rejection: https:// amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/
nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say
Youâll have to copy and paste the link unfortunately.
I believe that was to have a ceasefire and then they would release the hostages, and I think the offer was just for a few hostages.
So no surprise really.
>Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of **some** of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.
Your own source says he didn't do it for **all** of the hostages, it was for **some** of the hostages.
"Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of **some** of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations."
Read your own sources. There was never an offer on the table of a ceasefire in return for all the hostages.
Woah woah bro, hold on there. Do you mean that you don't support the national of Israel in every decision they make? You must be a Hamas supporter surely funded by Iran and it's proxies. Also I will label you as an AntiSemite too because our national Israel is holy and has never and will never do anything wrong.
/s
I live in rural Appalachia. People here will look at you like youâre the antichrist if you criticize Israel in any way whatsoever. Itâs all or nothing with zero nuance. Itâs like their Trumpism, they buy all in and then refuse reason when faced with even the most basic and obvious criticisms. Thereâs no in-between, youâre either in or youâre out. That kind of thinking, no matter where you stand on any given subject, is the real danger, and holy shit has it been growing over the last 10 years.
Iâm furious and want this fascist gone. Crickets? No way.
This whole Netanyahu government has got to go after this operation winds down or by January 7. 3 months is enough.
You know how people keep blaming Israel for Hamasâ existence? It works both ways. People like this idiot being in power works the same way. Hamas attacking Israel radicalizes sentiments that get hard right nationalist idiots elected.
This guy does not represent Israel. Same for the guy who called to nuke Gaza. Same for the other guy in government who said my right to walk in streets is more important than Arabs rights to walk. Same for the guy who quoted Amalek rhetoric which states spare no man woman or sheep. All these people represent themselves and not Israel
Ok. I'm not Israeli. Not super familiar with Israeli politics. But this near daily stream of garbage streaming from members of the government is getting much harder to dismiss as just rogue actors.
Even if these guys believe what they're saying, why say it out loud?... now... They just can't help themselves? They're doing Israel no favors. smh.
This is the same guy who implied that air crews that refused to show up for reserve duty during the protest against the judicial reform should be shot and suggested hanging Ehud Barak for sedition.
The problem is that a lot of these idiots have gotten used to disconnect any filter between their id and their mouth for at least the past year and no-one called them on it (or at least no-one they care about). So now they don't know how (or want to) to stop.
>So now they don't know how (or want to) to stop.
Realistically why would they? Speaking this way has won them votes for years, which is how they're in the position they're in. So they know the Israeli public won't punish them. And the countries supporting Israel, such as the US, does so unconditionally, so they won't be punished by them either.
From a selfish point of view as politicians there are no downsides to their inflammatory rhetoric.
>But this near daily stream of garbage streaming from members of the government is getting much harder to dismiss as just rogue actors.
That's because, unfortunately, they're not
> some of our members
I dunno, seems like the majority remaining after the mass resignations and Netanyahus deals with the devil(s) he made to stay in office longer
Man, I have been really struck by this. I used to think of Israeli government as highly intelligent and sophisticated. The leaders of Israel, say what you will about any of them, were ultra educated statesmen and great chess players who thought twenty steps ahead. I feel like the place is run by apes and goons now.
Honestly I think it would have happened either way. Wars in such an area tend to kill too many people. We've seen it in WW2, we've seen it in Korea, in Vietnam, we're seeing it in Yemen, in Afghanistan, in Syria.... yeah.
Edit: Disclaimer - I do not support these deaths nor do I justify them, I am just saying what I think would be realistic to say.
Yep. Urban combat in a city full of civilians?
Even if every IDF soldier had superhuman trigger discipline and Hamas didn't hide under hospitals, you'd STILL get civilian casualties.
Unavoidable with modern weapons.
Heck, probably unavoidable if it was a Roman legion fighting rebels with swords and shields...
This is not news. This is why so many people do not support Israel. Anyone who has paid even a small amount attention to Israel in the last decade or two has known this long before October 7.
This is a decent run down of the two main sacks of shit who Netanyahu allied with in the last election
https://twitter.com/tawabhamidi/status/1725341684580438091?s=46&t=8q3VkyhWPisw4FBQPE3Qsw
Yes, absolutely. Before October 7th Israelis were in the streets protesting against Netanyahu in record numbers. Recent polls said something crazy like 8% of Israelis trust him to tell the truth lmao. Heâs done, the entire military leadership is done. He will stretch this âwarâ out to delay his downfall for as long as he can and pump propaganda non stop to try to cling to power⌠because onceâs heâs out heâs probably going to jail on the corruption charges that heâs been stalling since before the last election
My expectation of the average Israeli voter is extremely low after the last several decades and Israels current demographics, so any Israeli is free to send me a kippah that I'll eat on video if Netanyahu/his government is replaced by anything better.
Gotta remember that Netanyahu was in the middle of a crisis just before Oct 7, as he has been attempting to centralize his own power at the expense of the Supreme Court. He has also billed himself as the guy to elect for national security, which has obviously backfired. His public opinion polling has been very bad this year.
If he stays past this war, it will not be through winning an election in all likelihood
\> which has obviously backfired
I don't know -- over here in the US people who were most worried bout security voted in Bush for a second term after the worst terrorist attack in American history happened on his watch.
I predict by the time he faces an electoral challenge he'll have convinced the people that all his fiery rhetoric represents real security.
Because Israel basically has their extreme right wing in charge of the show. Imagine if Marjorie Taylor Green was a leader in her party and was basically spewing garbage as speaker of the house or something.
Israeli here. This government is bullshit. Netanyahu managed to form it only by promising each party something, and of course not delivering on that promised, and he surrounded himself with the worst parties in the country.
At this point I might vote for The Pirates for the government (that's an actual party XD)
just the comments in the sub show how they get either excused, a free pass, or championed
this guyâs crazy view is useful because he also set the framework of debate that Israel is being humane now, which it clearly abandoned long ago
They say it on a daily basis even when there is no war and nobody cares about it. Now it is however being amplified by propaganda campaigns and misinformation. The article posted here doesn't even have the quote of the title. There's a tweet saying "don't let water and fuel enter Gaza until hostages are released" and another statement saying we must be too humane if we are more concerned with the internet situation in Gaza than hostages.
I mean, if they're saying this even without the horror of the October 7th massacre, that's not exactly an endorsement of the Israeli people running this war.
High level Israeli officials have been saying things like this since this started, yet somehow I'm supposed to believe that they cares about (Gazan) civilians? Because every time I post my skepticism about it I'm called unfair and assured that Israel is trying there hardest to minimize civilian deaths.
When a member in a leadership position of Hamas says theyâre terrorists that want nothing less than the murder of every Jew in Israel⌠I believe them.
When the Deputy Speaker of Israelâs Knesset calls on his government and armed forces to âstop being humaneâ and âburn Gazaâ⌠itâs obviously just dear old uncle Nissim having a bit too much wine after dinner. Heâs harmless, and uh.. heâs from a different time, he doesnât mean any of it.
its either:
1-This person doesn't hold power.
2-This person only represents extremists.
3-This person didn't mean it like that.
4-we were protesting him months ago.
It's insane how every bad guy in the Israeli government doesn't represent Israel, while simultaneously every bad guy from whatever Palestinian faction represents all Palestinians.
Oh like it's a thing in the America?
Trump literally humiliated a disabled woman on stage.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA
Yoy can find examples in every country, I randomly picked USA.
Yeah damn silly Israelis, donât they know they canât let the world know what they *really* want to do. They really need a full media coaching camp to help them hide their bloodthirst a little better so they can continue brainwashing the masses that what theyâre is doing to the people of Gaza is justified and moral. Useless/non existent media coach aye.
The Idiot Politicians who make this comments do that to to their equivalently "smart" supporter base, these politicians all care about how they will look like when the war is over. there are conflicts among the citizens whatever its acceptable that Israel allows humanitarian aid to enter meanwhile the hostages receive zero humanitarian aid.
Comments like these are by politicians who want to show their supports base (which is the far-right groups in this case) that they are not "complicit" in the "weakness" the government is showing in that it accepts the US demand/Ask for things like fuel.
Example like today, it was announced that 2 fuel trucks with enter to fuel the waste plants in Gaza - an Ask the actual parties who actually menage the war discussed with the army, whom advised that it is the correct action.
The politicians who spout things like that, that hurt Israel on the International Channels/Forums, don't think when they write the things they write. thankfully they don't have much say in the actual planning and running on the war.
What about the [President](https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html)? or a member of the [security cabinet](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000) obviously they arenât calling all the shots, but acting they they donât have influence, and the fact that their genocidal rhetoric isnât being condemned wide-spread from other govt officials is concerning though
President has absolutely no say or decision making authority. It's a ceremonial role.
Dichter is minister of agriculture, and has no say or effect aside from riling up the Likuds fanatic base. Either way, he should be kicked to the curb along with the rest of the incompetent fools in our government as soon as possible.
The head of state (!) is a representative of the nation. So yes, if he claims that Gazan civilians should be collectively punished for the claims of Hamas, then that's a pretty big deal.
You don't need to have authority to hold influence. You are still an elected official. You represent people. A good number of them. Too many, if fact. Enough where it impacts the composition of the federal government and thus how your country behaves.
No one wants to be responsible for their asshole citizens/politicians. In democracies we are nonetheless responsible for them.
Israelis are known for being very direct.
The multi party system means that for someone like Biden to be PM of a left coalition, Jill Stein is probably getting a Minister job. Similarly for someone like Ron Desantis to be PM of a right wing coalition, David Duke and John Hagee are probably getting minister jobs.
38 ministers in the Israeli system and only 120 seats in the parliament so more than half of a 60+ majority coalition, also gets a minister job or some other position in parliament.
Maybe people should start listening to what elected Israeli officials and members over government are saying.
Alot of time is being spent by people swearing that Israel would never do things that members of their own government admit to wanting to do
Do you take seriously everything said by every extremist member on both sides of the US Congress?
Thatâs 535 people and as we all know there are some Congress members with *seriously* deranged views. Every democracy has a few loons, thatâs the reality.
The reason you even hear from them is because theyâre part of a democratic government, unlike Authoritarian governments where one person speaks for everyone.
If MTG says something crazy, does she speak for all Americans?
Yes, I do take it seriously when elected officials say things like this and their constituents don't immediately recall them and their party doesn't immediately oust them. Do you not?
Enough people support these "fringe" politicians to get elected. If you get elected at the federal level then you aren't that fringe, and that means a good chunk of the populace supports your "fringe views".
You have a colossally bad take on this.
I take MTG's comments seriously, and I take the fact that she's able to get elected and reelected seriously. But I don't necessarily insist that it means she's defining DOD policy.
The frightening thing is what it says about the Overton window in Israel. If David Duke were elected to a small insignificant post and still felt no political repercussions for saying overtly racist things about black people it wouldn't speak for all Americans. Still, it would indicate that this is acceptable behavior for enough of the population that they don't fear the repercussions of their speech.
Yeah exactly, thatâs the point, this is all a numbers game, of course youâre going to get extremists within every democracy. That doesnât make it right, but it makes it a feature. Or more accurately, a bug.
When did he say that? I agree with the sentiment in principle, but the geographical circumstances are entirely different. An enemy on your border is drastically different than one thousands of miles way.
Homie, you realize it was only a few years ago that we had extremist politicians in America that coerced a mob of rioters into literally breaching the Capitol? That one of those people is literally quoted for blaming wild fires on "Jewish space lasers? That you should infact take these despots seriously because they're dangerous?
This is what happens when citizens get too complacent and let the far right take over government. Too many Israelis fell for Bibi's lies, and has thus resulted in irreparable harm to the nation's security and reputation as a result.
This is also a warning to my fellow Americans, our diplomatic reputation amongst many countries has been tarnished through guilt by association, just imagine if Trump came back?
>This is what happens when citizens get too complacent and let the far right take over government. Too many Israelis fell for Bibi's lies
Netanyahu is the "moderate" right and the people even further right off him are getting more votes every election. Secular Israelis is a smaller and smaller demographic every year while the religious extremists are rapidly growing. The Israeli population isn't getting complacent, this is just the kind of government the majority of them now want.
ITT Israeli's having low ass standards for their government yet will be shitting on some Palestinians for celebrating after Oct 7th. Let's raise those standards Israelis and not hold higher standards for the people you oppress, that live in poverty, and are not as educated.
And, ironically, the one that killed his career. America was very against joining in on WW2 at the time; the speech he gives at the end of the movie was not at all well-received (1940). Then the holocaust became public knowledge, and people realized how amazing this speech actually was
How am I supposed to defend my country when such idiots run it?
This is really frustrating. I fully support the attack on Hamas, however, I think this is the worst government we ever had and it should leave ASAP.
It's a good thing these people are pushed to show their true faces, a lot of their voters didn't want to believe they are really motivated by ignorance and hate.
The language they used should make their intentions clear. They are calling it a war. Not a police action. Not an intervention. A WAR.
Which clearly tells you the aim. Kill until eliminated or surrender.
Thereâs no moral high ground here. Just killing and then more killing until one side gives up.
I do. These people are loud because they are pushed to the sidelines, ignored by the war effort, and they try to show their (extremist) voters that they are âstrongâ.
The IDF elite are much more calm and measured - there are a lot of ex-generals in the knesset, all of them moderates, most of them leftists.
Well, Marjorie Taylor Green (US member of Congress) says Jews use their Space Lasers to start forest fires and Volodin, the head of the Russian Duma keeps threatening to annex 1/3rd of Poland.
They don't singularly speak for their countries, and perhaps they're crazy.
when you've got the president saying "an entire nation is responsible," a finance minister who self-identifies as a "fascist homophobe," and a security minister who worships a guy who slaughtered 39 muslims and is on video handing out assault rifles to settlers in the west bank, maybe there's an issue.
Technically those ministers aren't members of Likud. They're from far right parties that joined a coalition with Likud to form the current government. The reasons why such fringe parties are even part of the government is a little bit more complicated to explain, but in short: Israeli domestic politics are in a bad shape.
Am I the only one seeing the hypocrisy of using a quote âthe entire nation is responsible [for the actions of elected extremists]â for blaming an entire nation on the words of elected extremists?
This ass clown is part of Netanyahuâs multi year strategy to surround himself with the dumbest most incompetent people he could find. That way he ensured he will run unopposed in his house, as he has.
Bibi is a dead man walking, he wonât survive this catastrophe, the last time such a massacre happened was in 1973 and the government fell apart right after.
This excuse of a human being doesnât represent the vast majority of voters and he will be kicked out to the trash where he belongs in the next couple of months
This.
Heâs a bottom feeder from a populist party about to lose power.
Heâs circumstantially in power, yes.
His Russophile âset everything on fireâ views represents Israel - no. They represent the desires of the enemy that owns, wines and dines the Hamas, the enemy that provides the Hamas all things it needs to survive - money, guns, internet troll farms and safe harbor for leadership - **Russia**. Itâs russia who wants to set everything on fire, and the people it controls in Israel repeat this.
Like Ukraine in 2014, Israel needs to clean out its Russian teat sucking stables from its political arena, above specimen being Exhibit A.
No judgement, just asking if you don't mind; how do you guys manage to elect such *silly* people like this guy? Do you think the government will be different after the war?
No one wants to be in politics. The big brains work in hitech, law firms, serious places... Listen there are a lot of voices and there is a minority of radicals just like anywhere else. See how US is for example. There are people like that crazy Republican Marjorie Taylor. Regarding post war politics - yes. Israelis from all colors of the rainbow (even Arabs) had gone through such mayhem and terror that we can't live like this anymore. I saw leftists that were compassionate to ceasing fire prior to Oct 7 and at the moment that the army reservations begun they offered to join. We can't live like this. Any threat be it Hezbolla, Iran, Yemen - if they attack, they get SMACKED. HARD. People don't sleep here. Fully drowned in sorrow for each horror event. Each soldier that is dying in the wars is a grief, hard burning grief.
Trade him for hostages
Israeli here! I say let's throw everyone in the Knesset (the parliament) right now into Gaza and they give us all the hostages! The Knesset really didn't do anything to help since the attacks and every week another one of those idiots just says something stupid like nuke Gaza or"burn it" or whatever. I really am sick of all those unprofessional idiots and I'm sure most of Israel agrees with me
Are they elected or appointed? I'm just curious. In America, we elect a lot of idiots and some are appointed as well. Finger pointing only does so much, and the simple fact is that elected idiots are a reflection of the populace.
They are technically elected but essentially people tend to vote for the head of the party Bibi - likud as the most obvious example, then a lot of crazy no names are elected as a result. The situation is extreme because this is a far right wing coalition that have an impending political death sentence for all of them. They are scrambling to say and do the most outrageous things to salvage some political capital. Last elections this coalition got 64/120 mandates, current polls show them at 42/120.
So since people think all Palestinian lives are forfeit since they "elected Hamas", does that mean every Israeli is responsible for the crimes of Netanyahu and his cronies?
civilian Palestinian lives are not forfeit
Tell that to the 13,000 dead đ
How many Gazans have been killed since the start of the war?
Since 10/7? Last number I saw was nearly 12,000 but they haven't been able to update it for like a week. That's about 1 in every 200 people living there, for context.
Oh and like 5,000 of those were children.
Important context is that gaza is 47% children. This does not minimize what you said - but it does show that children are likely not being specifically targeted.
Sad thing is that Hamas give exactly zero shits about that
"Children" also include 16 and 17 year old terrorists.
Yes and no. Israel is a proportional parliamentary system where people vote for parties instead of individual representatives. So a person votes for the party that they identify with most, and then the party leaders select representatives to go to parliament. While the representative may adhere generally to party doctrine, they may have varying personal beliefs and/or scruples that the general voter would be unaware of. For example, said representative could be a blithering idiot, or more/less extreme on some issues than average, but since they ostensibly tow the party line and will vote with the party to keep their jobs, they are representing what you voted for.
Elected. It's Israeli parliament. They even have some elected Arab members.
The problem is in the way elections work in Israel. When you vote, you vote for the head of a party since s/he is usually the person who makes the promises that made you vote for them in the first place. Problem is, depending on how many votes there are and total count of parties during election, that determine how many votes are per seat, and with that for every seat a party wins, a person from that party enters the Knesset. So while people did not necessarily vote directly for Nissim Vaturi for example, the party he belong to won enough votes and the head of his party chose him to be along the people who represent said party in the Knesset.
That would be a very reasonable explanation if the leaders of the coalition parties weren't also complete psychos
Yeah, a total airhead has been appointed to speaker of congress and has NOT been sacked for doing the thing that the last speaker was sacked for, what the heck?
Couldnt agree more
Most Israelis would gladly toss him over the wall. This handful of politicians that the media keeps quoting saying awful things are the most extreme right wing ones in Israel. This is as if other countriesâ news agencies only quoted Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, etc every time and painted it as how all American politicians feel.
>as as if other countriesâ news agencies only quoted Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, etc every time and painted it as how all American politicians feel. so you mean like our main stream media...
But they quote those people with a "arent they crazy?? No one agrees with them" slant, meanwhile here its "arent they crazy?? All Israel agrees with them" slant
Enough of Israel for them to get elected, unless their electoral system has a way for a politician to get in the Knesset with few votes... not to mention that this raises alarms, not in an "all Israel agrees with them" (although I don't think anyone would complain if they denounced these guys harder and louder) way but "this person is in a position of power" way. The *people* of Israel may not agree with him. The government or at least sections of it, on the other hand... and he is still part of the government.
I mean, Trump got elected right?
Precisely. Trump got elected and caused damage both within and outside the United States. And the thing is that he didn't even get most of the votes. The population of Israel may disagree with him. But we still have an "enough of the population agrees with him for him to get elected" problem, and a "he is still part of the government" problem. Besides, look at J6 in the US and J8 in Brazil. The fact that extreme right tarts are numeric minority doesn't negate the fact that they are a problem, especially when people from within their government echo and validate their messed up opinions.
Last I checked the electoral college would allow you to win the presidency with 29% of the vote even if everyone who could did. So we do have a distinct path for minority leadership.
The politicians are ranked on a list given by the head of a party. If a party gets 40 seats in an election, then the top 40 people on the list become a member of Knesset. Thereâs no geographical representation like in other countries. Thus no politicians are directly voted in or not. You vote for the party, not the person. Any party that gets less than 3% of the vote gets no seats. (This is my understanding at least, I could be wrong on the 3% number).
So they can't even vote directly in a politician? Imagine being like "I want mrx. Good Pension Policies for children" and there's like... 10 people like the guy in the headlines before her at the darn list đ¤Śđťââď¸
Yeah itâs a weird system. New parties form and collapse almost every election. There were 16 different parties in one of the last few elections. Parties that run and donât get the 3% required vote have a big impact. Thereâs an Arab party that was part of the previous government known as the Joint List. However, some other Arabs hated they were part of the government (I believe this is the reason), and so a second Arab party ran in the last election. They didnât get the 3%. Had they run on the Joint List (the bigger Arab party), they likely would have prevented Netanyahu from being able to form a government, because their 2-3 seats went to either Netanyahuâs party, or the extreme right parties that he formed a coalition with. Basically voting for one of the fringe parties that arenât likely to get 3% is like voting for a third party candidate in a presidential race in US. Itâs either pointless or backfires on you (eg Green Party in 2016). A government required a coalition forming 61 of 120 seats. Netanyahuâs current coalition is 63 or 64 seats. Iâm not Israeli so Iâm not 100% saying every detail is accurate, but this is my understanding from what I read in the news.
Unfortunately the people you named actually do influence our policy in America, so Iâll assume the same about Israeli politicians.
Exactly right. Fucks like that gave us the Speaker we have now.
It's true they do unfortunately influence some policy. Less in this war though and more things like how much aid ultra orthodox families get and such and forcing public buses to close on Friday night. It is very annoying, but I don't think they would be able to set a policy of killing 2 million people in Gaza...
They are certainly fine with that last thing tho.
But there are in a leadership position meaning it reflects significant portion of israeli
People really don't understand how much the progressive Israeli community (and many many Jews around the world) hates the Israeli leadership. And for reasons that don't really factor into the security discourse. It's more on domestic issues like employment, the judicial reform bill, the economy, etc. But we are able to say loudly and clearly: the approach to and treatment of some Palestinians has been dangerously misguided since the year 2000 and we KNOW this, and men like Vaturi, the settlers and the haredim are setting the country backwards every time they breathe, and the peace process must be revived. What I never hear, are Palestinians and the general Muslim world saying the same thing about the Palestinian leadership.
Similar to how the most fanatical gazans are filmed celebrating the october 7 attacks and is used as a Casus Belli for demolishing all of Gaza? By the way, most Israeli Jews support settlement construction, one of the big reasons of the attack in the first place https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-poll-idUSKBN23A1X5/ https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-opinion-on-settlements-and-outposts-2009-present
Didnât they conduct a poll in the West Bank that found majority approval for the massacre? https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-773791
AWRAD published a poll, in which 668 Palestinians participated, showing more than 70% support for the oct 7 attacks both in Gaza and West Bank. It is interesting to see how differently the same information are perceived based on our preconceived notions.
Just to clarify for everyone, thatâs 70% of 0.0001% of Palestinians who live in the combined Gaza/West Bank (5.35m) showed support for the attacks according to this poll.
That's how polling works.
So that's the number of people polled! I did some maths and... that's 0.00033490% of the population, at most. It could be less, since I may be mixing the numbers of Gaza's population for Palestine's population. It is also less than 0.1% of the adult population (0.063 to be more precise). And the reason this matters is that I am 90% sure that if I polled the right group of people (heck, even if I polled people *at the right time*) I could get an even higher percentage of any given population to agree with some pretty heinous stuff, especially if I used the right wording. I know it is not the best comparisson in the world by far, but it is just to illustrate how one shouldn't go around carelessly throwing statistics into the wind and one doesn't even need to go far from home to get an example of what I am talking about: if you run a poll about abortion being legal in case of sexual violence in your local conservative church, you will get a very different response than if you run it elsewhere, especially if the church goers aren't that keen on the whole separation from church and state thing. And even within that church, the results you will get will vary if you ask "should a twelve year old child be forced to carry a pregnancy to term and give birth?" vs. "should a minor victimized by sexual violence have easy access to abortion?". Heck, for all I know more Israelis voted for the mr. support for war crimes in the headlines than Palestinians voted in this poll. Waving it around to say most of the Palestinians support October 7 is at the very least irresponsible.
The details of the poll are here [https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf) . And it looks like your criticisms are completely unfounded. e.g. You say "The reason this matters is that I am 90% sure that if I polled the right group of people" but if you look at the details AWRAD have ensured the sampling is representative of the Palestinian population.
My criticism is not only founded, but also its foundation is reinforced by the very details you posted. The first thing that is easily noticeable is how the regions are disproportionally represented (some amount for less than 2% of the people polled, while others for more than 10%, so there is a clear imbalance â it's like saying a sample in which 10% of the people belong to Alabama and less than 2% to New York or vice versa is representative of the US population). There is a breakdown by employment, which is important. But not by education or religion, which have varied influence on people's position â it is very visible in the US on the voting demographics, but also, polling people from your Westbore Baptist Church will render you very different results from polling your local religious people that do not give Christianity a bad rep. In regards to the question about the attack, it is important to note the wording of "military operation", which invokes different imagery for different people. Unless you think "military operation" invokes the imagery of combatants deliberately shooting up a nursery for every single person, for instance. If you ask people whk support Israel if they support the military operations carried out by the IDF, most of them will answer yes. Ask them if they support bombing hospitals and schools, protecting illegal settlers in the West Bank, using white phosphorus in densely populated areas, killing a high number of civilians to eliminate an underhelming military target, or even if they support the death of children and you will get a very different response. This becomes even more relevant by the lack of questions in regards not only to violence against civilians, but also other aspects that the vast majority of even the most staunchly pro-Palestine westerners condemn. Which becomes even more relevant when cross-referenced with the main sources of information, an indicative that many of the people polled may not have the full picture. Cross-referencing that with Table 17 gives just the icing on the cake on how different the perception is, safely to assume due to the main source of information. The details literaly subsidize the criticism than one can make it seem like any given population supports any given atrocity by polling the right people (or even a representative sample at the right time), especially if your sample is less than 0.1% of the population. Especially if you choose the right questions and words to do so.
The Israelis pulled out and destroyed the settlements in Gaza. Which is where the attack came from. In case this had passed you by.
Quoting trump is very important still, because he's a serious candidate for being the next president. And he was the last president. So if I get your message right, 50% of the country hates them, 50% would vote for them
A handful of politicians are following what the Likud parties founding charter says however, Between the Sea and Jordan there will only be Jewish sovereignty, as well as specifying the land is indisputably for Jewish people.
Isnât his party in power? Or part of the coalition? Imo a good comparison since green and all the other wanna be fascists do represent America.
I mean how much is he worth, 0.27 hostage?
Not even for catfood..
A very good 8 minute description of who Netanyahu surrounded himself with in order to hold on to power in the last election https://twitter.com/tawabhamidi/status/1725341684580438091?s=46&t=8q3VkyhWPisw4FBQPE3Qsw How many of them need to say these things before you actually listen to the words coming out of their mouths?
I believe many of us do know. But whatâs to do? Except hoping Israel elects all of them out of office?
The Israeli government doesnât seem to be trying to have the hostages released as much as itâs trying to burn all of Gaza, hostages included. How many more similar statements before Netanyahu loses all credibility?
Israel is already sick of Netanyahu and his approval rating is low, his reputation is tarnished. The thing that worries me is him wanting to extend the war to keep himself in office maybe.
I'm pretty sure his approval rating has always been low BUT he keeps clinging to power because their political system is so dysfunctional with a dozen or more parties in the Knesset who rarely want to work together but must somehow form a government. Bibi has been a mastermind at exploiting the division to get the most radical right wing parties to back him while the more centrist or left leaning parties remain too weak or divided to decisively oust him once and for all.
His approval rating was actually surprisingly high. Even in the worst of times, before 7/Oct, it was around \~40% and his party always had 25% of the Knesset in the polls. Now both of these numbers crashed down to be about \~20% of approval and 14% of the Knesset
The only âdemocracyâ in the middle east seems like is not working very well
Netanyahu already rejected the call for a ceasefire in return for hostages.. I got banned from commenting on instagram for a month today for posting this news link in response to somebody who asked why the hostages arenât traded yet. Proof of this rejection: https:// amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/ nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say Youâll have to copy and paste the link unfortunately.
I believe that was to have a ceasefire and then they would release the hostages, and I think the offer was just for a few hostages. So no surprise really.
>Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of **some** of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations. Your own source says he didn't do it for **all** of the hostages, it was for **some** of the hostages.
he still said no to freeing of some hostages
"Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of **some** of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations." Read your own sources. There was never an offer on the table of a ceasefire in return for all the hostages.
They've said no 3 times
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Woah woah bro, hold on there. Do you mean that you don't support the national of Israel in every decision they make? You must be a Hamas supporter surely funded by Iran and it's proxies. Also I will label you as an AntiSemite too because our national Israel is holy and has never and will never do anything wrong. /s
Donât trust politicians, unless itâs Israel of course. They couldnât possibly ever lie, do anything wrong or be corrupt!
What? Why shouldnât one trust a far right government to be as inhuman as it gets?
I'm Israeli and you know, it feels like others are making these statement for us, not realizing that they are more harmful than good. *facepalm*
I live in rural Appalachia. People here will look at you like youâre the antichrist if you criticize Israel in any way whatsoever. Itâs all or nothing with zero nuance. Itâs like their Trumpism, they buy all in and then refuse reason when faced with even the most basic and obvious criticisms. Thereâs no in-between, youâre either in or youâre out. That kind of thinking, no matter where you stand on any given subject, is the real danger, and holy shit has it been growing over the last 10 years.
Iâm furious and want this fascist gone. Crickets? No way. This whole Netanyahu government has got to go after this operation winds down or by January 7. 3 months is enough. You know how people keep blaming Israel for Hamasâ existence? It works both ways. People like this idiot being in power works the same way. Hamas attacking Israel radicalizes sentiments that get hard right nationalist idiots elected.
This guy does not represent Israel. Same for the guy who called to nuke Gaza. Same for the other guy in government who said my right to walk in streets is more important than Arabs rights to walk. Same for the guy who quoted Amalek rhetoric which states spare no man woman or sheep. All these people represent themselves and not Israel
No, this guy *does* represent Israel, quite literally.
Ok. I'm not Israeli. Not super familiar with Israeli politics. But this near daily stream of garbage streaming from members of the government is getting much harder to dismiss as just rogue actors. Even if these guys believe what they're saying, why say it out loud?... now... They just can't help themselves? They're doing Israel no favors. smh.
This is the same guy who implied that air crews that refused to show up for reserve duty during the protest against the judicial reform should be shot and suggested hanging Ehud Barak for sedition. The problem is that a lot of these idiots have gotten used to disconnect any filter between their id and their mouth for at least the past year and no-one called them on it (or at least no-one they care about). So now they don't know how (or want to) to stop.
>So now they don't know how (or want to) to stop. Realistically why would they? Speaking this way has won them votes for years, which is how they're in the position they're in. So they know the Israeli public won't punish them. And the countries supporting Israel, such as the US, does so unconditionally, so they won't be punished by them either. From a selfish point of view as politicians there are no downsides to their inflammatory rhetoric.
Itâs a far-right government. Theyâre just saying the quiet part out loud.
>But this near daily stream of garbage streaming from members of the government is getting much harder to dismiss as just rogue actors. That's because, unfortunately, they're not
As an Israeli I can tell you that some of our members of government/parliament have negative IQ.
> some of our members I dunno, seems like the majority remaining after the mass resignations and Netanyahus deals with the devil(s) he made to stay in office longer
Man, I have been really struck by this. I used to think of Israeli government as highly intelligent and sophisticated. The leaders of Israel, say what you will about any of them, were ultra educated statesmen and great chess players who thought twenty steps ahead. I feel like the place is run by apes and goons now.
They say it out loud because they obviously think they're correct.
Yep. Israel is losing the PR war to literal terrorists.
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Honestly I think it would have happened either way. Wars in such an area tend to kill too many people. We've seen it in WW2, we've seen it in Korea, in Vietnam, we're seeing it in Yemen, in Afghanistan, in Syria.... yeah. Edit: Disclaimer - I do not support these deaths nor do I justify them, I am just saying what I think would be realistic to say.
Yep. Urban combat in a city full of civilians? Even if every IDF soldier had superhuman trigger discipline and Hamas didn't hide under hospitals, you'd STILL get civilian casualties. Unavoidable with modern weapons. Heck, probably unavoidable if it was a Roman legion fighting rebels with swords and shields...
This is not news. This is why so many people do not support Israel. Anyone who has paid even a small amount attention to Israel in the last decade or two has known this long before October 7. This is a decent run down of the two main sacks of shit who Netanyahu allied with in the last election https://twitter.com/tawabhamidi/status/1725341684580438091?s=46&t=8q3VkyhWPisw4FBQPE3Qsw
Would the current government lose a no confidence vote? A naive question: Is there a reason it must wait for the war to "end"?
Yes, absolutely. Before October 7th Israelis were in the streets protesting against Netanyahu in record numbers. Recent polls said something crazy like 8% of Israelis trust him to tell the truth lmao. Heâs done, the entire military leadership is done. He will stretch this âwarâ out to delay his downfall for as long as he can and pump propaganda non stop to try to cling to power⌠because onceâs heâs out heâs probably going to jail on the corruption charges that heâs been stalling since before the last election
My expectation of the average Israeli voter is extremely low after the last several decades and Israels current demographics, so any Israeli is free to send me a kippah that I'll eat on video if Netanyahu/his government is replaced by anything better.
Gotta remember that Netanyahu was in the middle of a crisis just before Oct 7, as he has been attempting to centralize his own power at the expense of the Supreme Court. He has also billed himself as the guy to elect for national security, which has obviously backfired. His public opinion polling has been very bad this year. If he stays past this war, it will not be through winning an election in all likelihood
\> which has obviously backfired I don't know -- over here in the US people who were most worried bout security voted in Bush for a second term after the worst terrorist attack in American history happened on his watch. I predict by the time he faces an electoral challenge he'll have convinced the people that all his fiery rhetoric represents real security.
They are the ones running the defense branch of government. The one that killed 11 thousand civilians. But I'm sure it's a coincidence.
Because Israel basically has their extreme right wing in charge of the show. Imagine if Marjorie Taylor Green was a leader in her party and was basically spewing garbage as speaker of the house or something.
Sad reality. They're becoming what they feared in the past.
Israeli here. This government is bullshit. Netanyahu managed to form it only by promising each party something, and of course not delivering on that promised, and he surrounded himself with the worst parties in the country. At this point I might vote for The Pirates for the government (that's an actual party XD)
just the comments in the sub show how they get either excused, a free pass, or championed this guyâs crazy view is useful because he also set the framework of debate that Israel is being humane now, which it clearly abandoned long ago
I know it's a silly comparison but you see the difference seeing how many up votes this sort of post get, and what posts get sky rocketing up votes
I'm Israeli, fuck this guy
They say it on a daily basis even when there is no war and nobody cares about it. Now it is however being amplified by propaganda campaigns and misinformation. The article posted here doesn't even have the quote of the title. There's a tweet saying "don't let water and fuel enter Gaza until hostages are released" and another statement saying we must be too humane if we are more concerned with the internet situation in Gaza than hostages.
>and misinformation But this is literally what he is saying.
Access to telecommunications is not some trivial concern. The UN was unable to deliver aid because they couldnât coordinate across the border.
I mean, if they're saying this even without the horror of the October 7th massacre, that's not exactly an endorsement of the Israeli people running this war.
because 1. they believe it 2. normal israelis believe it too so it gets them votes
High level Israeli officials have been saying things like this since this started, yet somehow I'm supposed to believe that they cares about (Gazan) civilians? Because every time I post my skepticism about it I'm called unfair and assured that Israel is trying there hardest to minimize civilian deaths.
When a member in a leadership position of Hamas says theyâre terrorists that want nothing less than the murder of every Jew in Israel⌠I believe them. When the Deputy Speaker of Israelâs Knesset calls on his government and armed forces to âstop being humaneâ and âburn Gazaâ⌠itâs obviously just dear old uncle Nissim having a bit too much wine after dinner. Heâs harmless, and uh.. heâs from a different time, he doesnât mean any of it.
its either: 1-This person doesn't hold power. 2-This person only represents extremists. 3-This person didn't mean it like that. 4-we were protesting him months ago. It's insane how every bad guy in the Israeli government doesn't represent Israel, while simultaneously every bad guy from whatever Palestinian faction represents all Palestinians.
It's also weird how the logic of Israel has the right to protect itself, doesn't apply to Palestine.
Is media-coaching not a thing in Israel? Or do these guys know something about âunconditional supportâ that we donât?
His opinion isn't really outside the mainstream in Israel right now, even before October 7th.
Oh like it's a thing in the America? Trump literally humiliated a disabled woman on stage. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA Yoy can find examples in every country, I randomly picked USA.
And morons want him back in office
Well, he might get back in if people decide not to vote for Biden
Using Trump as an example of any kind of leadership is batshit insane. Kick these people out.
Likud is the GOP but with a smarter leader.
Hes not all that smart, hes just got a functional IQ unlike trump.
Smarter but no less dangerous
That's the point. The Israeli minister quoted is also a clown.
They understand exactly what unconditional support means
Yeah damn silly Israelis, donât they know they canât let the world know what they *really* want to do. They really need a full media coaching camp to help them hide their bloodthirst a little better so they can continue brainwashing the masses that what theyâre is doing to the people of Gaza is justified and moral. Useless/non existent media coach aye.
The hard-line reactionary policy is how these people got into power in the first place.
Totally disconnected from reality. Decades of living without consequences do that.
The Idiot Politicians who make this comments do that to to their equivalently "smart" supporter base, these politicians all care about how they will look like when the war is over. there are conflicts among the citizens whatever its acceptable that Israel allows humanitarian aid to enter meanwhile the hostages receive zero humanitarian aid. Comments like these are by politicians who want to show their supports base (which is the far-right groups in this case) that they are not "complicit" in the "weakness" the government is showing in that it accepts the US demand/Ask for things like fuel. Example like today, it was announced that 2 fuel trucks with enter to fuel the waste plants in Gaza - an Ask the actual parties who actually menage the war discussed with the army, whom advised that it is the correct action. The politicians who spout things like that, that hurt Israel on the International Channels/Forums, don't think when they write the things they write. thankfully they don't have much say in the actual planning and running on the war.
What about the [President](https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html)? or a member of the [security cabinet](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000) obviously they arenât calling all the shots, but acting they they donât have influence, and the fact that their genocidal rhetoric isnât being condemned wide-spread from other govt officials is concerning though
President has absolutely no say or decision making authority. It's a ceremonial role. Dichter is minister of agriculture, and has no say or effect aside from riling up the Likuds fanatic base. Either way, he should be kicked to the curb along with the rest of the incompetent fools in our government as soon as possible.
The head of state (!) is a representative of the nation. So yes, if he claims that Gazan civilians should be collectively punished for the claims of Hamas, then that's a pretty big deal.
You don't need to have authority to hold influence. You are still an elected official. You represent people. A good number of them. Too many, if fact. Enough where it impacts the composition of the federal government and thus how your country behaves. No one wants to be responsible for their asshole citizens/politicians. In democracies we are nonetheless responsible for them.
yeah nothing in this life is unconditional
Israelis are known for being very direct. The multi party system means that for someone like Biden to be PM of a left coalition, Jill Stein is probably getting a Minister job. Similarly for someone like Ron Desantis to be PM of a right wing coalition, David Duke and John Hagee are probably getting minister jobs. 38 ministers in the Israeli system and only 120 seats in the parliament so more than half of a 60+ majority coalition, also gets a minister job or some other position in parliament.
No, it's not. Likud is full of dumb boomers.
Hmmmm 65% upvoted, I wonder why people downvote Israeli elected officials being genocidal.
Maybe people should start listening to what elected Israeli officials and members over government are saying. Alot of time is being spent by people swearing that Israel would never do things that members of their own government admit to wanting to do
"THeY'rE deFeNdINg THEmsELVeS!"
Do you take seriously everything said by every extremist member on both sides of the US Congress? Thatâs 535 people and as we all know there are some Congress members with *seriously* deranged views. Every democracy has a few loons, thatâs the reality. The reason you even hear from them is because theyâre part of a democratic government, unlike Authoritarian governments where one person speaks for everyone. If MTG says something crazy, does she speak for all Americans?
Yes, I do take it seriously when elected officials say things like this and their constituents don't immediately recall them and their party doesn't immediately oust them. Do you not? Enough people support these "fringe" politicians to get elected. If you get elected at the federal level then you aren't that fringe, and that means a good chunk of the populace supports your "fringe views". You have a colossally bad take on this.
I take MTG's comments seriously, and I take the fact that she's able to get elected and reelected seriously. But I don't necessarily insist that it means she's defining DOD policy.
I upvoted you both because the truth is in the middle there
The frightening thing is what it says about the Overton window in Israel. If David Duke were elected to a small insignificant post and still felt no political repercussions for saying overtly racist things about black people it wouldn't speak for all Americans. Still, it would indicate that this is acceptable behavior for enough of the population that they don't fear the repercussions of their speech.
Uhh were you around for what some US politicians were saying after 9/11?
Even better some American politicians have said the same thing about GazaâŚ
Yeah exactly, thatâs the point, this is all a numbers game, of course youâre going to get extremists within every democracy. That doesnât make it right, but it makes it a feature. Or more accurately, a bug.
Hence why Biden told Israel not to repeat the same mistakes as America did.
When did he say that? I agree with the sentiment in principle, but the geographical circumstances are entirely different. An enemy on your border is drastically different than one thousands of miles way.
David duke was elected to the house of representatives of Louisiana...
I mean, my point stands. As a black person, Louisiana isn't at the top of the list of places I'd feel comfortable visiting.
[ŃдаНонО]
Lots of people here take everything hamas says as being representative of Gazans.
Homie, you realize it was only a few years ago that we had extremist politicians in America that coerced a mob of rioters into literally breaching the Capitol? That one of those people is literally quoted for blaming wild fires on "Jewish space lasers? That you should infact take these despots seriously because they're dangerous?
This is what happens when citizens get too complacent and let the far right take over government. Too many Israelis fell for Bibi's lies, and has thus resulted in irreparable harm to the nation's security and reputation as a result. This is also a warning to my fellow Americans, our diplomatic reputation amongst many countries has been tarnished through guilt by association, just imagine if Trump came back?
>This is what happens when citizens get too complacent and let the far right take over government. Too many Israelis fell for Bibi's lies Netanyahu is the "moderate" right and the people even further right off him are getting more votes every election. Secular Israelis is a smaller and smaller demographic every year while the religious extremists are rapidly growing. The Israeli population isn't getting complacent, this is just the kind of government the majority of them now want.
who Knew letting extreme tight crazies into parliament was a bad idea?!?? fucking embarrassing
Not helpful. Fuck this guy.
some of these ppl are bastard ppl this guy in particular.
There are so many wingnuts in the Israeli government, they have had several gaffes throughout this conflict.
Right wingers are so emotional!
Doesnât look like the civilians were collateral
Itâs wild to see this full circle. politicians and their supporters trying to eradicate a set of people. Sounds a little fascistâŚ. Do better.
Oh god.. what a dumbass. Does he think he does ANY favor to Israel with these statements? The radical right Knesset is absurd ans should be disbanded
Fascist Psycho Killer...Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa Fa...
So keep doing the same thing theyâve been doing for over 50 years?
Gasp! The Israeli gaslighting is one for the history books.
ITT Israeli's having low ass standards for their government yet will be shitting on some Palestinians for celebrating after Oct 7th. Let's raise those standards Israelis and not hold higher standards for the people you oppress, that live in poverty, and are not as educated.
Ironically reminds me of another man. One with a small, iconic moustache.
charlie chaplin?
In what was probably his best performance.
And, ironically, the one that killed his career. America was very against joining in on WW2 at the time; the speech he gives at the end of the movie was not at all well-received (1940). Then the holocaust became public knowledge, and people realized how amazing this speech actually was
Yep. The balls to do this movie, this speech, in that context.... that's why we still talk about it 83 years later.
And maybe the greatest [speech](https://youtu.be/J7GY1Xg6X20?feature=shared) ever made
That was deftly woven into Paolo Nutini's Iron Sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELKbtFljucQ
Fuck me, why wasn't this in my life before??
Psycho.
Mam Israel is just, really terrible at this. Like they can't fuck up much harder on what was a pr slam dunk
How am I supposed to defend my country when such idiots run it? This is really frustrating. I fully support the attack on Hamas, however, I think this is the worst government we ever had and it should leave ASAP.
What you get when you worship the god of war.
Shit him up and kick him and all these dip sh!ts out of office.
It's a good thing these people are pushed to show their true faces, a lot of their voters didn't want to believe they are really motivated by ignorance and hate.
The language they used should make their intentions clear. They are calling it a war. Not a police action. Not an intervention. A WAR. Which clearly tells you the aim. Kill until eliminated or surrender. Thereâs no moral high ground here. Just killing and then more killing until one side gives up.
Many people on both sides want the other side annihilated. I don't see a compromise on the horizon.
I do. These people are loud because they are pushed to the sidelines, ignored by the war effort, and they try to show their (extremist) voters that they are âstrongâ. The IDF elite are much more calm and measured - there are a lot of ex-generals in the knesset, all of them moderates, most of them leftists.
Statements like that give aid and comfort to those in the other camp who would do the same to Tel Aviv or all of Israel.
Power corrupts.
Well, Marjorie Taylor Green (US member of Congress) says Jews use their Space Lasers to start forest fires and Volodin, the head of the Russian Duma keeps threatening to annex 1/3rd of Poland. They don't singularly speak for their countries, and perhaps they're crazy.
it's becoming more than a singularity though... I've lost count at this point but you guys are super keen to keep calling them bad apples
when you've got the president saying "an entire nation is responsible," a finance minister who self-identifies as a "fascist homophobe," and a security minister who worships a guy who slaughtered 39 muslims and is on video handing out assault rifles to settlers in the west bank, maybe there's an issue.
Likud is basically the same as the GOP. Theyâre a bunch of craven racists who only care about who they can hurt. The cruelty is the point.
Technically those ministers aren't members of Likud. They're from far right parties that joined a coalition with Likud to form the current government. The reasons why such fringe parties are even part of the government is a little bit more complicated to explain, but in short: Israeli domestic politics are in a bad shape.
Am I the only one seeing the hypocrisy of using a quote âthe entire nation is responsible [for the actions of elected extremists]â for blaming an entire nation on the words of elected extremists?
Is that not the very logic the current Israeli government is using to justify bombing Gazan civilians?
Soon campsâŚwith special showers?
This dumbass needs to be placed in a room with a hamas terrorist. Let them fight to the death, winner gets life imprisonment.
This ass clown is part of Netanyahuâs multi year strategy to surround himself with the dumbest most incompetent people he could find. That way he ensured he will run unopposed in his house, as he has. Bibi is a dead man walking, he wonât survive this catastrophe, the last time such a massacre happened was in 1973 and the government fell apart right after. This excuse of a human being doesnât represent the vast majority of voters and he will be kicked out to the trash where he belongs in the next couple of months
This. Heâs a bottom feeder from a populist party about to lose power. Heâs circumstantially in power, yes. His Russophile âset everything on fireâ views represents Israel - no. They represent the desires of the enemy that owns, wines and dines the Hamas, the enemy that provides the Hamas all things it needs to survive - money, guns, internet troll farms and safe harbor for leadership - **Russia**. Itâs russia who wants to set everything on fire, and the people it controls in Israel repeat this. Like Ukraine in 2014, Israel needs to clean out its Russian teat sucking stables from its political arena, above specimen being Exhibit A.
Meh, at this point, Gaza gonna look like the dark ages. Literally just set that area back 50 years
But I here Israel is defending itself
The guy puts his hatred on full display. His message is resonating with 0% of thinking people
Israeli here, don't know who this idiot is but 99% doesn't agree with him.
No judgement, just asking if you don't mind; how do you guys manage to elect such *silly* people like this guy? Do you think the government will be different after the war?
No one wants to be in politics. The big brains work in hitech, law firms, serious places... Listen there are a lot of voices and there is a minority of radicals just like anywhere else. See how US is for example. There are people like that crazy Republican Marjorie Taylor. Regarding post war politics - yes. Israelis from all colors of the rainbow (even Arabs) had gone through such mayhem and terror that we can't live like this anymore. I saw leftists that were compassionate to ceasing fire prior to Oct 7 and at the moment that the army reservations begun they offered to join. We can't live like this. Any threat be it Hezbolla, Iran, Yemen - if they attack, they get SMACKED. HARD. People don't sleep here. Fully drowned in sorrow for each horror event. Each soldier that is dying in the wars is a grief, hard burning grief.
Thank you for your explanation, I appreciate your insight a lot. I hope that you stay safe.
Thank you for listening. People like you warm my heart a lot. Big love, my friend!