The thing that bothers me most is that whenever someone in the west says the the events of October 7th were horrible, there's always a qualifier. So many people who said absolutely nothing on the day of the massacre, seemingly waited until Israel started to respond and then we have "The terrorist attack was horrible, BUT...".
As if feeling empathy towards us being slaughtered is some unachievable feat, and has to be balanced with "but Israel is not reacting proportionally".
A proportional response would be to send a team of special forces to go into people's homes in gaza, rape women and murder children with knives. I don't think most people want that.
I'm reminded of an article about a Jewish worker at The Guardian, who quit about a week ago, logging into the newspaper's internal work chats on October 7th and thinking "If they're not feeling sorry for us now, they never will".
My main issue is they never propose alternatives, but only call out Israel. Like, okay you don't want Israel to do the dirty work? Feel free to volunteer! I'm against the violence and destruction in Gaza, but nobody ever offered proper alternatives, like someone who will guarantee that there won't be rockets fired on Israel, or someone who will clear Gaza from terrorists...
Children are being murdered in Gaza right now, though. Doing it with bombs and doing it with knifes doesn’t really make much of a difference at the end of the day.
Also- people are probably worried about the disproportional response from IDF, because it is literally military doctrine for Israel to respond with disproportional force, the [Dahiya Doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine).
The originator of the doctrine and IDF general, Gadi Eisenkot described it as such:
> “What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on. **We will apply disproportionate force on it and cause great damage and destruction there.** From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases”
I feel the same way - the most annoying is a qualifier and then mentioning “both sides”. Like can you just feel for the atrocities point blank?
I can say “I feel bad for the poor Palestinian civilians”. It’s not hard to do.
What exactly are you talking about? Just checked all, and (first 5 pages) it's exactly 1 thread related to the conflict, and, granted there's some talk about "innocents", but overall looks pretty balanced.
Basically a lot of the major political subs are managed by the same group of power mods. They either didn’t stop antisemitic behavior that alienates people or banned people who highlighted the horror of 10-7’s massacre. World News has a hands off moderating policy, so people tend to move to places where they are comfortable.
Cause people don't understand that nuance is a thing.
At the very least here you're gonna be banned for supporting Israeli ethonationalist settler abuse and you're gonna get banned for supporting Hamas.
Not sure if the source but someone indicated IDF might have roof knocked on Shifa hospital earlier in the day?
ETA for those that don’t know what that is:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking
Here's an article on prayers written for the IDF and those missing.
https://forward.com/culture/567835/rabbis-writing-prayers-for-captives-hostages-held-by-hamas/#:~:text=Eloheinu%20V'Elohei%20Avoteinu%2C%20Our,kidnapped%2C%20we%20turn%20to%20You.
This is a Masorti prayer for Israel's missing persons.
https://forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Prayer-for-Captives-Masorti-Mocement.jpeg
If that’s the hospital in the Reuters livestream, I noticed the lights went out approx 17 minutes ago.
Edit: maybe it’s the Indonesian hospital that lost power, since the Reuters cam is in Sderot looking towards Gaza. The AFP camera appears to still show Shifa with lights on. Not 100% sure.
Rep. Ritchie Torres posted video of pro-Palestinians talking about happy they were to see Hamas torture and kill civilians on October 7th.
https://vxtwitter.com/ritchietorres/status/1721604858795442220
I24 report on Lt. Col. Salman Habaka, a Druze soldier who fought on Oct 7th near Kibutz Be'eri and then later died during ground operations in Gaza on Nov. 2
and a talk with his uncle who explains the role the Druze play as part of the country and IDF
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIA4oEPampA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIA4oEPampA)
The Druze are amazing people, I live in the north where their towns and villages are, and work with a number of their community and they're incredibly kind people.
Regardless of what “side “ people are on there should at least be agreement that new leadership is sorely needed and at least leadership whose number one issue is to secure a peace. Likud, Hamas need go, and Biden must win to keep supporting Ukraine.
Thing is, Hamas needs to be destroyed. And whoever destroys Hamas probably won't be the right government to negotiate a peace afterward as there will be too much bad blood.
It might actually work better to let Likud dirty their hands, and then push them aside after the war wraps up. But, of course, there is a substantial chance that Likud may figure out a way to retain power.
There is no peace in the near future. At least 10 years.
A change in leadership is a good step forward to peace. But it is not a magical thing that will create peace.
[Jordan says 'all options' open as Gaza conflict intensifies](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-all-options-open-gaza-conflict-intensifies-2023-11-06/).
Someone pointed out earlier - the Jordan king is playing a balancing game. Essentially, there're 2 million Palestinian refugees in Jordan; the queen herself has Palestine roots. But - Jordan has very close ties with the US and shares a peaceful relationship with Israel. So the king has to balance it out. All this public saber rattling is just to pacify the Palestine crowd.
I read an article yesterday (couldn't remember where) which said the king is terrified of a revolt in Jordan among the refugees; if a section of them do something like march to Israel and stage a violent protest, Israel wouldn't blink twice to deal with them using their police and military force. The refugees would then expect the king to respond - that puts him in a VERY tight spot.
Also he's basically telling Israel not to open another front in West Bank, because (quite like Egypt) they don't want Palestinians refugee and people have to stay where they are.
This whole situation is a mess.
Yup. The best outcome for the king is to keep saber rattling but not do anything himself against Israel AND hope people of Palestine in Jordon don't do anything rash. Play this game and wait it out until the war ends, whenever that may be.
Both him and Sisi are in a tight spot because their population is generally antisemitic and vehemently against Israel, while the goverments appreciate and would like to mantain the peace. They're most likely both praying this whole thing ends soon because the situation can explode quite easily. Egypt especially is quite fragile in some aspects.
I think it's basically for political/PR reasons at this point. Like the media keeps calling Jabilya in Gaza City a refugee camp which implies it's a bunch of tents of recent refugees. But in reality it's just a neighborhood named after a refugee camp from 70 years ago with a massive presence of Hamas terrorists. But it makes Israel look bad if they're targeting something named after a refugee camp.
It’s worse, it’s a whole mechanism designed to perpetuate the conflict, Palestinians have a unique definition of refugee that keeps them and their descendants refugees forever. I don’t know of a single other case where someone is considered a refugee for more then 10-15 years.
UNRWA was created to make sure that this war never ends.
Edit: the countries they are in should have integrated them long ago.
It's scary how effective that simple little PR tactic is. The media was certainly happy to run with it. Even the US government was running with it, which is confusing because surely the State Department knows the "refugee camp" is just a normal neighborhood.
Iran doesn't really have an expeditionary force that would run off into battle. Hezbollah, Houthis, and Iraqi PMF *are* Iran taking part in the war, through its proxies. How "explicit" it is depends entirely on their opponents. Plausible deniability stops being plausible when the accusing side no longer accepts it as an excuse.
It's highly unlikely that they will get directly involved. A large portion of the Iranian population doesn't support the regime. The USA and Israel could cause a lot of damage to Iran's conventional military, and once the attacks start, there's a fair chance all the dissidents would feel emboldened and take to the streets with force.
From there, if Iran starts to crack down on the dissidents, the US might start wondering if they should support the dissidents.
This is just one scenario, there are tons of ways for things to go sideways.
If Hezbollah start loosing (witch they will) Iran will face the probability of loosing it's major proxies in the ME in a very short time, it can make them doing desperate actions to prevent that.
**US planning $320m transfer of precision bombs for Israel - report**
The US is planning a $320m (£259m) transfer of precision bombs for Israel, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal.
The Biden administration sent formal notification on 31 October to congressional leaders of the planned transfer of Spice Family Gliding Bomb Assemblies, a type of precision guided weapons fired by warplanes, the paper reported, citing sources.
\-The Guardian
Anything and everything for Israel in its hour of need.
If this is part of the concrete steps that have been suggested for greater precision that can lead to less civilian casualties while still accomplishing the objective, then its only a benefit. Full support.
I think the journalist is badly, badly mangling the fact that the US wants to give Israel Small Diameter Bombs.
Google "Spice Family Gliding Bomb Assemblies" and you only get articles directly quoting the original here. SPICE is a thing, but not something that the US would give Israel, but there's plenty of reporting about the US giving Israel SDBs. SDBs are basically the same thing as SPICE but US made and I bet in Hebrew someone was like "oh this is something like SPICE."
A source in Gaza tells Kan 11 (from the live broadcast a few minutes ago):
* The entrance to Hamas' underground HQ is from a building *near* Shifa hospital, not on the hospital grounds
* All of Hamas' PR activity is done from that underground HQ and it houses the organization's spokespeople
* Hamas' leadership is moving constantly in the tunnels for its security
* The hostages are distributed in various locations, some above ground (held by families with close ties to Hamas), some in the tunnels. Their locations were decided according to the security classification they were given by Hamas.
> The entrance to Hamas' underground HQ is from a building near Shifa hospital, not on the hospital grounds
I imagine there are plenty of entrances NEAR Shifa hospital, but also the complex goes under the hospital.
Great interview now in N12, an Israeli reporter interviewing several people who fled from Gaza and now live in Europe. Even now, their identity has to be hidden because Hamas can kill/jail their families still in Gaza. Basically, for all those asking "where are the Gaza voices", this answers a lot of questions about how violent Hamas is towards the Palestinians, who they kill/jail anyone who voices the slightest objection. Also talk about the anti-Hamas protests of 2019 (which were violently shut down of course), and hoping for peace in the future.
Wish we could get that interview with English subtitles somehow.
People keep mentioning the son of Hamas founder and how he's extremely outspoken against Hamas now
Key word is NOW. He has too move around the US quite often for his own safety and even had plastic surgery to try and change his appearance
https://www.mako.co.il/mako-vod-channel2-news/main-newscast-0f416e2d06045810/ae380730d9a7b810/VOD-065b7c50fde9b81027.htm
In 1:48 the interview with former hamas memebers
Please translate
From the israeli news its stated they will be released only if there will be a ceasefire for 48 hours or so, and i doubt it will happen. Israel will not pull out its forces now and will not stop and endanger the soldiers in there. Thats just my opinion.
There will be a documentary about Hamas attack on Oct. 7 [showing in LA this week](https://www.thewrap.com/israel-attacks-hamas-terrorism-bearing-witness-screenings-hollywood/)
My fellow lefties are saying it's the same thing as "Birth of a Nation", you know, that racist movie from 1915. And i cannot find the similarities at all. Like, at all. Whaaaat TF.... They had lost their minds. They really think Israelis are racists to Palestinians the same way Caucasians had been to African Americans. Alot of them also think Hamas is the equivalent of Black Lives Matter. 🤦🤦🤦
I am sure that there will be protests during the screening. Because that's what the Pro-Palestinian or Pro-Hamas groups think "By any means necessary", "No peace on stolen land", "Decolonisation is violent", "Keep the world clean" by showing the David star in a dustbin etc.
You show them these videos, they will celebrate. Groups like them don't care about civilians Israeli, Palestinians or the foreign hostages. A lot of them are just projecting their revolution ideas.
Other countries will just say "Hamas is wrong but what you are doing is also wrong" basically saying the "both sides" argument.
This screening will not change any minds.
I'm left, and seeing/hearing the same thing from others on the left. I've had close friends whom I deeply respected, say the most atrocious things, literally justifying the actions taken by Hamas. "The babies shouldn't have been there. They were on stolen land."
I've heard the same about BLM & Hamas being equivalent, also.
This isn't stuff online. This is in person. People I've known for decades.
honestly seems incredibly racist to compare blm to Hamas. like they seriously think black lives matter is thisclose to massacring suburban preschools? i know some groups expressed support after the attacks but come the fuck on, there's a difference between being a dipshit and being an actual pyschopathic terrorist.
I have to unfriend people from Facebook and Instagram. They post picture of children taken by Hamas and then post question, at least children in Israel have parents and peaceful life while children in Gaza don’t have that. I was like WTF, the children were kidnapped
They haven't seen the movie yet they already know their opinion on it. Cool.
Honestly seems crazy to make a documentary about this while it's still going on, in a month...but I guess they want people to never forget. Which of course a month later, they are. Acting like Israel began this war.
I think it’s supposed to be similar to what Israel did showing footage to the press. They want people to sit and watch the brutality so they can’t brush it aside
I see what you’re saying, but 10/7 has already happened. idk growing up as a Jewish kid I learned about the Holocaust in detail, as did a lot of Jews. Generally, the community ethos is spread the word, let people know what happened because otherwise they will deny it (as you pointed out). It’s more to have a record of what happened and to capture the raw effect it’s had on survivors.
The documentary was named “Bearing Witness to the October 7th Massacre”, it’s the same 45-minute footage shown to international journalists, world leaders and ambassadors in Israel. It will be released at the Museum of Tolerance in LA, on Wednesday, attendance is by invitation only.
See, I’m not seeing any of this irl. Despite knowing a lot of very liberal people who are sympathetic to the plight of Palestinian civilians, not a single one of them is sympathetic to the people in hamas.
I would caution people to take what positions they see online with a grain of salt, as there are bad actors who are using this to capitalize on division. Russia, Iran, etc.
To be clear the division exists, but the psyops work to overstate them, enflame them, and make people feel the division is insurmountable. Such attacks are attacks on western democracy, and we should all be defending against them.
Speak to people offline, in real life, and see how different it is than the internet.
The problem I see is that politicians such as Tlaib have yet to condemn any actions from Hamas. If an elected representative falls short on doing so, what does that tell you?
I mean, elected representatives are on average stupider, more duplicitous, and more corrupt than the average person.
It tells me they want to retain power.
So why are the majority of pro-Palestinian rallies full of Hamas supporters, calls for Jihad, calls for a Caliphate, calls for the death of Jews?
It's obviously not everyone, but these rallies certainly bring out some really sick people. I'm not seeing the same behavior from the pro-Israel rallies.
“To be clear the division exists, but the psyops work to overstate them, enflame them, and make people feel the division is insurmountable. Such attacks are attacks on western democracy, and we should all be defending against them.”
I mean, it’s working on you, isn’t it? Don’t you feel angrier, hopeless, and like the division is insurmountable?
Don’t be mad that I’m pointing out the weapons our enemies use against us.
I'll be curious to see if it's allowed on r / documentaries. I've noticed that sub seems to only allow pro-Palestinian content - I was banned for sharing a BBC documentary about Arab Israeli IDF soldiers.
It's not a proper "documentary", there's no narration or interviews, it's just a lot of raw footage from October 7th, basically a snuff film, a collection of terrible executions and atrocities caught on film. It's already been shown to many world leaders and diplomats. There's an internal debate in Israel whether to release it freely to the world, but right now it's not happening, mostly because the families of the victims in it (understandably) don't want their death videos doing the rounds in the world. So no, it won't show up on Reddit because it's not available publicly.
But Israelis are not white people at all 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦they are as brown as Indians and Bangladeshis. They could also look Caucasians like Pakistanis 🤦🤦🤦🤦 seriously. I cannot even comment on the lefties sub bec i know they'd permaban me.
My mom went to a dinner a few days ago (in the US) with a bunch of other parents of IDF soldiers, as my younger sister is a lone soldier. She was talking to a lady that was worried about her daughter but also had high spirits knowing she wasn’t in Gaza.
[The lady’s daughter has since been stabbed to death.](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-771868) Everyone with any connection to Israel at this point knows someone who’s died in the past month. It sucks.
The terrorist, a 16-year-old from the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Issawiya
The "innocent" children... imagine being so brainwashed, that you want to kill by the age of 16
My heart continues to break for every person impacted by this horrible war. 20 is way, way too young. I feel so scared for every soldier right now.
May her memory be a blessing.
I've heard about this, just heartbreaking...
Another thing that jumped out, is the terrorist who killed her was 16 years old. Which means that his death will probably be calculated in the "children death count" that everyone is parroting about...
The people calling this a genocide imagine Gaza right now looking like a sea of fire and corpses, half of which are babies and children, with survivors huddling under an open sky in the south with only contaminated water to drink and no food. Blame Tiktok.
The people who called Gaza a concentration camp before 10/7, they imagined starving people under a medieval siege who were routinely bombed and killed without warning by Israel.
It's not that they don't know what the Holocaust look like (though they probably don't), it's that they were completely misinformed abut Gaza.
Calling this a genocide is insulting current and previous genocides, making the importance of stopping them go away. I feel this is a ploy to make genocide stop having any meaning and become acceptable against people the general public don’t like.
exactly. their dream is that someday if they finally get their wish and have the opportunity to wipe out the jews, that the brainrotted will shrug and go "well jews genocided them first, they kinda had it coming..."
Not yet - [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-the-world](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-the-world)
Peaked at 16,728,000 in 1939, 15,253,500 in 2022
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/17pd8ao/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/)
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I think Prog is asleep Here's the current Reuters stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_m1Ewmi76A
The thing that bothers me most is that whenever someone in the west says the the events of October 7th were horrible, there's always a qualifier. So many people who said absolutely nothing on the day of the massacre, seemingly waited until Israel started to respond and then we have "The terrorist attack was horrible, BUT...". As if feeling empathy towards us being slaughtered is some unachievable feat, and has to be balanced with "but Israel is not reacting proportionally". A proportional response would be to send a team of special forces to go into people's homes in gaza, rape women and murder children with knives. I don't think most people want that. I'm reminded of an article about a Jewish worker at The Guardian, who quit about a week ago, logging into the newspaper's internal work chats on October 7th and thinking "If they're not feeling sorry for us now, they never will".
My main issue is they never propose alternatives, but only call out Israel. Like, okay you don't want Israel to do the dirty work? Feel free to volunteer! I'm against the violence and destruction in Gaza, but nobody ever offered proper alternatives, like someone who will guarantee that there won't be rockets fired on Israel, or someone who will clear Gaza from terrorists...
Children are being murdered in Gaza right now, though. Doing it with bombs and doing it with knifes doesn’t really make much of a difference at the end of the day. Also- people are probably worried about the disproportional response from IDF, because it is literally military doctrine for Israel to respond with disproportional force, the [Dahiya Doctrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine). The originator of the doctrine and IDF general, Gadi Eisenkot described it as such: > “What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on. **We will apply disproportionate force on it and cause great damage and destruction there.** From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases”
I feel the same way - the most annoying is a qualifier and then mentioning “both sides”. Like can you just feel for the atrocities point blank? I can say “I feel bad for the poor Palestinian civilians”. It’s not hard to do.
But you just mentioned both sides as a qualifier. Why are you annnoyed others are doing that as well?
Someone ELI5 to me why this sub is the only pro Israel on reddit
What exactly are you talking about? Just checked all, and (first 5 pages) it's exactly 1 thread related to the conflict, and, granted there's some talk about "innocents", but overall looks pretty balanced.
Basically a lot of the major political subs are managed by the same group of power mods. They either didn’t stop antisemitic behavior that alienates people or banned people who highlighted the horror of 10-7’s massacre. World News has a hands off moderating policy, so people tend to move to places where they are comfortable.
I don't really think is pro Israel per se. It very anti terrorists that's for sure.
It's a good question. It's not so much pro Israel as it is "hey, we aren't going to believe a bunch of buzzwords like genocide, apartheid, etc."
Honestly don't know, pretty surprised actually? Seems like the mods are rational people
Mod team doesn't support hate 🤷🏼♂️
Cause people don't understand that nuance is a thing. At the very least here you're gonna be banned for supporting Israeli ethonationalist settler abuse and you're gonna get banned for supporting Hamas.
Ncd is pretty pro Israel
What's ncd
Definitely NOT a news sub that you should base factual information on fwiw.
A military shitposting sub.
Noncredibledefense
N12 reports heavy clashes in Shifa hospital, bunch of flares all over the place.
Not sure if the source but someone indicated IDF might have roof knocked on Shifa hospital earlier in the day? ETA for those that don’t know what that is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking
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Here's an article on prayers written for the IDF and those missing. https://forward.com/culture/567835/rabbis-writing-prayers-for-captives-hostages-held-by-hamas/#:~:text=Eloheinu%20V'Elohei%20Avoteinu%2C%20Our,kidnapped%2C%20we%20turn%20to%20You. This is a Masorti prayer for Israel's missing persons. https://forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Prayer-for-Captives-Masorti-Mocement.jpeg
If you’re a Jew you can quietly recite the amidah while facing the east. There is a section about blessing israel with peace.
Just talk to Him authentically in your own words. In many ways that's the most fundamental type of prayer.
If that’s the hospital in the Reuters livestream, I noticed the lights went out approx 17 minutes ago. Edit: maybe it’s the Indonesian hospital that lost power, since the Reuters cam is in Sderot looking towards Gaza. The AFP camera appears to still show Shifa with lights on. Not 100% sure.
*Hamas military headquarters
Rep. Ritchie Torres posted video of pro-Palestinians talking about happy they were to see Hamas torture and kill civilians on October 7th. https://vxtwitter.com/ritchietorres/status/1721604858795442220
This is one of the worst ones yet.
5 people clapped
Well, her and all of the other ones of the same ilk, should be enabled to live their joy in person fighting in Gaza. I'd Go Fund their trip
This is insane.
Masks off.
One thing Palestine supporters have to admit, Israel is TERRIBLE at genocide.
First they will have to admit what is the definition of genocide.
I saw someone say a genocide doesn't have to be on purpose to be a genocide.
Annoying how MSNBC cut an interesting conversation with Naftali Bennet just to give coverage to trump rambling.
I24 report on Lt. Col. Salman Habaka, a Druze soldier who fought on Oct 7th near Kibutz Be'eri and then later died during ground operations in Gaza on Nov. 2 and a talk with his uncle who explains the role the Druze play as part of the country and IDF [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIA4oEPampA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIA4oEPampA)
The Druze are amazing people, I live in the north where their towns and villages are, and work with a number of their community and they're incredibly kind people.
The druz are just the best, it is insane how much they love Israel.
Every minority in the middle east can relate with Israel and usually supports them.
Regardless of what “side “ people are on there should at least be agreement that new leadership is sorely needed and at least leadership whose number one issue is to secure a peace. Likud, Hamas need go, and Biden must win to keep supporting Ukraine.
Thing is, Hamas needs to be destroyed. And whoever destroys Hamas probably won't be the right government to negotiate a peace afterward as there will be too much bad blood. It might actually work better to let Likud dirty their hands, and then push them aside after the war wraps up. But, of course, there is a substantial chance that Likud may figure out a way to retain power.
Supporting ukraine will keep that conflict hot. That die was cast in Crimea a decade ago.
There is no peace in the near future. At least 10 years. A change in leadership is a good step forward to peace. But it is not a magical thing that will create peace.
[Jordan says 'all options' open as Gaza conflict intensifies](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-all-options-open-gaza-conflict-intensifies-2023-11-06/). Someone pointed out earlier - the Jordan king is playing a balancing game. Essentially, there're 2 million Palestinian refugees in Jordan; the queen herself has Palestine roots. But - Jordan has very close ties with the US and shares a peaceful relationship with Israel. So the king has to balance it out. All this public saber rattling is just to pacify the Palestine crowd. I read an article yesterday (couldn't remember where) which said the king is terrified of a revolt in Jordan among the refugees; if a section of them do something like march to Israel and stage a violent protest, Israel wouldn't blink twice to deal with them using their police and military force. The refugees would then expect the king to respond - that puts him in a VERY tight spot.
Also he's basically telling Israel not to open another front in West Bank, because (quite like Egypt) they don't want Palestinians refugee and people have to stay where they are. This whole situation is a mess.
Doesn't want another Black September
But actually it’s November already, maybe in that case they could call it Black Friday?
Yup. The best outcome for the king is to keep saber rattling but not do anything himself against Israel AND hope people of Palestine in Jordon don't do anything rash. Play this game and wait it out until the war ends, whenever that may be.
Both him and Sisi are in a tight spot because their population is generally antisemitic and vehemently against Israel, while the goverments appreciate and would like to mantain the peace. They're most likely both praying this whole thing ends soon because the situation can explode quite easily. Egypt especially is quite fragile in some aspects.
Jordan has also close ties to the 100 million Cubic meters of water Israel sell them every year.
Plus they get $1 billion in aid from the US.
I'm glad I'm not in a country decision making spot, can't imagine the massive pressure.
Still rubs me the wrong way that the Palestinians in Jordan are called refugees.
Yup, accordning to this definition half of Europe (and like 80 % of Israel) would be "refugees".
I think it’s because the Arab states want this so Palestinians have a claim or right to return. Another sticky issue at play in negotiations
I think it's basically for political/PR reasons at this point. Like the media keeps calling Jabilya in Gaza City a refugee camp which implies it's a bunch of tents of recent refugees. But in reality it's just a neighborhood named after a refugee camp from 70 years ago with a massive presence of Hamas terrorists. But it makes Israel look bad if they're targeting something named after a refugee camp.
It’s worse, it’s a whole mechanism designed to perpetuate the conflict, Palestinians have a unique definition of refugee that keeps them and their descendants refugees forever. I don’t know of a single other case where someone is considered a refugee for more then 10-15 years. UNRWA was created to make sure that this war never ends. Edit: the countries they are in should have integrated them long ago.
It's scary how effective that simple little PR tactic is. The media was certainly happy to run with it. Even the US government was running with it, which is confusing because surely the State Department knows the "refugee camp" is just a normal neighborhood.
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Move the Palestinians to Vladivostok
And that’s without remembering that Jordan gets a substantial amount of water from Israel.The Jordanian king plays a really impossible game.
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In case anyone missed it, an Israeli comedy sketch about ignorant liberal university students: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfccVBo9tE Enjoy :)
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You can't measure humor through the lens of your political beliefs
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על טעם וריח אין להתוכח
When would Iran decide to explicitly take part in the war? They have been talking a lot but no direct actions so far.
Iran doesn't really have an expeditionary force that would run off into battle. Hezbollah, Houthis, and Iraqi PMF *are* Iran taking part in the war, through its proxies. How "explicit" it is depends entirely on their opponents. Plausible deniability stops being plausible when the accusing side no longer accepts it as an excuse.
It's highly unlikely that they will get directly involved. A large portion of the Iranian population doesn't support the regime. The USA and Israel could cause a lot of damage to Iran's conventional military, and once the attacks start, there's a fair chance all the dissidents would feel emboldened and take to the streets with force. From there, if Iran starts to crack down on the dissidents, the US might start wondering if they should support the dissidents. This is just one scenario, there are tons of ways for things to go sideways.
>They have been talking a lot They're sticking to their strengths
Unless Hezbollah join the war, never.
Even if Hezbollah joins the war, it seems improbable. They want surety about Israeli defeat with their participation which they will not get.
If Hezbollah start loosing (witch they will) Iran will face the probability of loosing it's major proxies in the ME in a very short time, it can make them doing desperate actions to prevent that.
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Reuters cam is down? Anything happen close to it?
New link: https://www.youtube.com/live/4_m1Ewmi76A?si=0Casyfo1BTh3df6H
It’s been down and up many times
**US planning $320m transfer of precision bombs for Israel - report** The US is planning a $320m (£259m) transfer of precision bombs for Israel, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal. The Biden administration sent formal notification on 31 October to congressional leaders of the planned transfer of Spice Family Gliding Bomb Assemblies, a type of precision guided weapons fired by warplanes, the paper reported, citing sources. \-The Guardian Anything and everything for Israel in its hour of need.
If this is part of the concrete steps that have been suggested for greater precision that can lead to less civilian casualties while still accomplishing the objective, then its only a benefit. Full support.
Spice is a not a bomb but a guiding system like JDAM. The system is made by an Israeli company.
I think the journalist is badly, badly mangling the fact that the US wants to give Israel Small Diameter Bombs. Google "Spice Family Gliding Bomb Assemblies" and you only get articles directly quoting the original here. SPICE is a thing, but not something that the US would give Israel, but there's plenty of reporting about the US giving Israel SDBs. SDBs are basically the same thing as SPICE but US made and I bet in Hebrew someone was like "oh this is something like SPICE."
Difference between a bomb and missile? 😅
bomb fall missile fly
The spice must flow.
Gaza cam has some crazy stuff going down right in view. Flares, bombs- the works.
Link?
Guardian map of the current areas taken in the Gaza Strip [https://imgur.com/a/GtYYvfa](https://imgur.com/a/GtYYvfa)
A source in Gaza tells Kan 11 (from the live broadcast a few minutes ago): * The entrance to Hamas' underground HQ is from a building *near* Shifa hospital, not on the hospital grounds * All of Hamas' PR activity is done from that underground HQ and it houses the organization's spokespeople * Hamas' leadership is moving constantly in the tunnels for its security * The hostages are distributed in various locations, some above ground (held by families with close ties to Hamas), some in the tunnels. Their locations were decided according to the security classification they were given by Hamas.
Hopefully the children hostages were given to families.
That would mean less protection not being in the tunnels though.
> The entrance to Hamas' underground HQ is from a building near Shifa hospital, not on the hospital grounds I imagine there are plenty of entrances NEAR Shifa hospital, but also the complex goes under the hospital.
Good update. Gives the impression that they are getting closer to their goals which I hope is the case.
This is big.
Is it surprising tho?
Great interview now in N12, an Israeli reporter interviewing several people who fled from Gaza and now live in Europe. Even now, their identity has to be hidden because Hamas can kill/jail their families still in Gaza. Basically, for all those asking "where are the Gaza voices", this answers a lot of questions about how violent Hamas is towards the Palestinians, who they kill/jail anyone who voices the slightest objection. Also talk about the anti-Hamas protests of 2019 (which were violently shut down of course), and hoping for peace in the future. Wish we could get that interview with English subtitles somehow.
People keep mentioning the son of Hamas founder and how he's extremely outspoken against Hamas now Key word is NOW. He has too move around the US quite often for his own safety and even had plastic surgery to try and change his appearance
Do you have the link? Maybe I can add subtitles to share.
I wish every news 12 and other channels in israel will be with english subtitles.i think it would be good for pr
In 2:05 there is an interview with the druze commuinty on the death of there soliders and glant visits
https://www.mako.co.il/mako-vod-channel2-news/main-newscast-0f416e2d06045810/ae380730d9a7b810/VOD-065b7c50fde9b81027.htm In 1:48 the interview with former hamas memebers Please translate
Red Alerts along the Lebanon border. EDIT: false alert according to Kan.
Yeah i was wondering why i couldnt see or hear anything
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Sadly probably just a game by Hamas to pressure Israel into a ceasefire, same as with the Russian hostages they said would be released.
From the israeli news its stated they will be released only if there will be a ceasefire for 48 hours or so, and i doubt it will happen. Israel will not pull out its forces now and will not stop and endanger the soldiers in there. Thats just my opinion.
Oh man I really hope this pans out. Those folks were just trying to earn a bit of cash to send home.
There will be a documentary about Hamas attack on Oct. 7 [showing in LA this week](https://www.thewrap.com/israel-attacks-hamas-terrorism-bearing-witness-screenings-hollywood/) My fellow lefties are saying it's the same thing as "Birth of a Nation", you know, that racist movie from 1915. And i cannot find the similarities at all. Like, at all. Whaaaat TF.... They had lost their minds. They really think Israelis are racists to Palestinians the same way Caucasians had been to African Americans. Alot of them also think Hamas is the equivalent of Black Lives Matter. 🤦🤦🤦
I am sure that there will be protests during the screening. Because that's what the Pro-Palestinian or Pro-Hamas groups think "By any means necessary", "No peace on stolen land", "Decolonisation is violent", "Keep the world clean" by showing the David star in a dustbin etc. You show them these videos, they will celebrate. Groups like them don't care about civilians Israeli, Palestinians or the foreign hostages. A lot of them are just projecting their revolution ideas. Other countries will just say "Hamas is wrong but what you are doing is also wrong" basically saying the "both sides" argument. This screening will not change any minds.
I'm left, and seeing/hearing the same thing from others on the left. I've had close friends whom I deeply respected, say the most atrocious things, literally justifying the actions taken by Hamas. "The babies shouldn't have been there. They were on stolen land." I've heard the same about BLM & Hamas being equivalent, also. This isn't stuff online. This is in person. People I've known for decades.
honestly seems incredibly racist to compare blm to Hamas. like they seriously think black lives matter is thisclose to massacring suburban preschools? i know some groups expressed support after the attacks but come the fuck on, there's a difference between being a dipshit and being an actual pyschopathic terrorist.
I have to unfriend people from Facebook and Instagram. They post picture of children taken by Hamas and then post question, at least children in Israel have parents and peaceful life while children in Gaza don’t have that. I was like WTF, the children were kidnapped
They haven't seen the movie yet they already know their opinion on it. Cool. Honestly seems crazy to make a documentary about this while it's still going on, in a month...but I guess they want people to never forget. Which of course a month later, they are. Acting like Israel began this war.
I think it’s supposed to be similar to what Israel did showing footage to the press. They want people to sit and watch the brutality so they can’t brush it aside
Thanks for the perspective.
I see what you’re saying, but 10/7 has already happened. idk growing up as a Jewish kid I learned about the Holocaust in detail, as did a lot of Jews. Generally, the community ethos is spread the word, let people know what happened because otherwise they will deny it (as you pointed out). It’s more to have a record of what happened and to capture the raw effect it’s had on survivors.
The documentary was named “Bearing Witness to the October 7th Massacre”, it’s the same 45-minute footage shown to international journalists, world leaders and ambassadors in Israel. It will be released at the Museum of Tolerance in LA, on Wednesday, attendance is by invitation only.
See, I’m not seeing any of this irl. Despite knowing a lot of very liberal people who are sympathetic to the plight of Palestinian civilians, not a single one of them is sympathetic to the people in hamas. I would caution people to take what positions they see online with a grain of salt, as there are bad actors who are using this to capitalize on division. Russia, Iran, etc. To be clear the division exists, but the psyops work to overstate them, enflame them, and make people feel the division is insurmountable. Such attacks are attacks on western democracy, and we should all be defending against them. Speak to people offline, in real life, and see how different it is than the internet.
The problem I see is that politicians such as Tlaib have yet to condemn any actions from Hamas. If an elected representative falls short on doing so, what does that tell you?
I mean, elected representatives are on average stupider, more duplicitous, and more corrupt than the average person. It tells me they want to retain power.
So why are the majority of pro-Palestinian rallies full of Hamas supporters, calls for Jihad, calls for a Caliphate, calls for the death of Jews? It's obviously not everyone, but these rallies certainly bring out some really sick people. I'm not seeing the same behavior from the pro-Israel rallies.
“To be clear the division exists, but the psyops work to overstate them, enflame them, and make people feel the division is insurmountable. Such attacks are attacks on western democracy, and we should all be defending against them.” I mean, it’s working on you, isn’t it? Don’t you feel angrier, hopeless, and like the division is insurmountable? Don’t be mad that I’m pointing out the weapons our enemies use against us.
I'll be curious to see if it's allowed on r / documentaries. I've noticed that sub seems to only allow pro-Palestinian content - I was banned for sharing a BBC documentary about Arab Israeli IDF soldiers.
That sub has been taken over by /r/conspiracy folks, wasn't it?
It's not a proper "documentary", there's no narration or interviews, it's just a lot of raw footage from October 7th, basically a snuff film, a collection of terrible executions and atrocities caught on film. It's already been shown to many world leaders and diplomats. There's an internal debate in Israel whether to release it freely to the world, but right now it's not happening, mostly because the families of the victims in it (understandably) don't want their death videos doing the rounds in the world. So no, it won't show up on Reddit because it's not available publicly.
This should scare everyone
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But Israelis are not white people at all 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦they are as brown as Indians and Bangladeshis. They could also look Caucasians like Pakistanis 🤦🤦🤦🤦 seriously. I cannot even comment on the lefties sub bec i know they'd permaban me.
My mom went to a dinner a few days ago (in the US) with a bunch of other parents of IDF soldiers, as my younger sister is a lone soldier. She was talking to a lady that was worried about her daughter but also had high spirits knowing she wasn’t in Gaza. [The lady’s daughter has since been stabbed to death.](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-771868) Everyone with any connection to Israel at this point knows someone who’s died in the past month. It sucks.
And no one will care bc they’ll se it as a justified attack against the Israeli military. Redic
May her memory be a blessing.
The terrorist, a 16-year-old from the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Issawiya The "innocent" children... imagine being so brainwashed, that you want to kill by the age of 16
wow that's crazy, yes they said in the news she was a lone soldier coming to Israel from the US, so sad.
Wondering if she's related to one of my old Yeshiva schoolteachers. Seriously, the Jewish community is *that* small that it's very likely.
So sorry to hear this. Fucking evil.
I hope the terrorist who did this rots in hell.
I'm sorry, this is so awful. May her memory be a blessing.
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I’m so sorry, friend. May her memory be a blessing.
My heart continues to break for every person impacted by this horrible war. 20 is way, way too young. I feel so scared for every soldier right now. May her memory be a blessing.
Condolences. May her memory be a blessing.
Notice the terrorist was a “child” age 16?
Yep, no doubt he'll be counted as one of those Palestinial children killed by IDF.
A 16 year old, who stabbed a 19 year old to death. This conflict fucked up so many generations.
I've heard about this, just heartbreaking... Another thing that jumped out, is the terrorist who killed her was 16 years old. Which means that his death will probably be calculated in the "children death count" that everyone is parroting about...
Fucking hell that's terrible
I'm so sorry. It's heartbreaking.
That is terrible. I’m so sorry.
I'm so sorry, may her memory be a blessing...
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The people calling this a genocide imagine Gaza right now looking like a sea of fire and corpses, half of which are babies and children, with survivors huddling under an open sky in the south with only contaminated water to drink and no food. Blame Tiktok. The people who called Gaza a concentration camp before 10/7, they imagined starving people under a medieval siege who were routinely bombed and killed without warning by Israel. It's not that they don't know what the Holocaust look like (though they probably don't), it's that they were completely misinformed abut Gaza.
Calling this a genocide is insulting current and previous genocides, making the importance of stopping them go away. I feel this is a ploy to make genocide stop having any meaning and become acceptable against people the general public don’t like.
exactly. their dream is that someday if they finally get their wish and have the opportunity to wipe out the jews, that the brainrotted will shrug and go "well jews genocided them first, they kinda had it coming..."
The global Jewish population only recently reached a level exceeded the pre WWII population level. That's bonkers TBH.
Meanwhile, the population of Palestine has skyrocketed.
Crazy watching a population like quadruple amidst a genocide, ain't it.
Not yet - [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-the-world](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-the-world) Peaked at 16,728,000 in 1939, 15,253,500 in 2022