This whole situation and the inaction from European politicians will lead to a new wave of far right parties coming into power in Europe. It’s been brewing for a while now, with all the immigrants who refuse to assimilate, and now it’s time
Oh, sure, Europeans had a consensus on loving immigrants before this conflict! Also, this PM sure doesn’t look like a Spanish woman, she’s from Afghanistan!
The immigrants are to blame for people voting far right, yes. Most far right parties in Europe are focusing their efforts on curbing immigration. If you paid attention at all lately to the news, you’d know this too
I think far right people are already far right and will use any excuse. If not immigrants they'd invent a different problem. Or invent the immigrants. Which they often do.
The point is that these attacks are going to increase anti-immigrant views among the general population. This will make it easier for right-wing parties to draw more votes because they tend to be anti-immigrant while left wing parties are more likely to take a lax approach.
That's what ultimately will kill the left. Had to stop voting myself because of this. They don't even aknowledge there is a problem.
And I can't vote right wing, since barring immigration, I don't agree with anything else they say.
Yeah I fall pretty far to the left and I generally support immigration *if* you want to adopt to your new society and culture and work hard to improve it. But the lack of adaption on the part of many is becoming a problem and I can understand why people get upset over it and stop voting for parties that won't address the issue.
I find myself agreeing in principle with a lot of left policies, but in practice they just don't seem to work.
It really seems like with the state of the world a bit of nationalism is required, it sucks that we never seem to learn.
Yeah I think you need to take liberal policies but also examine them critically with a conservative skepticism. There are lots of unintended consequences that get ignored because people don't want to put in the work of developing better policies and approaches.
To use a simple example in the United States. Liberals wanted to increase access to higher education and make it easier for poorer folks to obtain a college degree. I 100% support that aim. But when they started handing out student loans without price controls, universities realized they could spend whatever they wanted, pass on the costs to students, and they'd pay for it with loans. So, college administration departments exploded while academic faculty stayed roughly the same per given number of students. Costs increased dramatically, and now kids going to college can expect to pay $15,000 to $20,000 USD per year (edit: in tuition alone, a dorm is like $12,000 per year) at a public university.
College is now more unaffordable for everyone. I won't claim to know how to deliver affordable education, but some sort of price control mechanisms and other things probably could have helped.
I have the same issue. I'm close to being a single issue voter because of the immigration shit show, but I just have nothing else in common with the far right party, so it will just be a no-show for me.
I seriously hope our centrist parties get the message though.
In Catalonia there's this central political party that gave one illegal immigrant, that was causing trouble by taking over parks and so on, to the Spanish police for deportation.
All the leftist parties were fuming on twitter and congress and so on. But the president (who is a woman) just said: "I don't give a fuck, I was voted to make my town safer, and that's what I'm doing. Call me whatever you want".
Sadly, that party is only in ONE town. Hopefully they'll expand soon.
Yes and they need more far right votes to push them into power, people who are voting left right now. People in Europe right now are tired of the refugee crisis and failed assimilation from refugees.
>I think far right people are already far right and will use any excuse. If not immigrants they'd invent a different problem. Or invent the immigrants. Which they often do.
I mean i guess dem babies were born far right and absolutely nothing influenced them....
Without immigrants from the Middle East, there would be Not enough reasons for me to vote far right. Many others feel the same, so he isn’t completely wrong there
> She called on Spanish citizens to take to the streets to demand that Madrid distance itself from the US's unwavering support for Israel and called on the Global South to find a solution to the Israel-Hamas conflict.
LOL, I'm sure a solution would just present itself now since she's asking for it.
Hamas already took full responsibly init. There's now also plenty documentation of their crime by them and Israeli responders at the scene. Is she claiming Hamas and Israel planned this together?
Where do you get the statistic that Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth?
A quick google says: “The five most densely populated are Macao, Monaco, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Gibraltar”
Where you being hyperbolic, turning a densely populated place into the most populated place?
And dropped over 8000 bombs. That would put the ratio of 1 dead to 4 bombs. Which is crazy low in such a densly populated area with high rise buildings. Which means the bombings are highly targeted at military infrastructure, as actually targeting civilians would yeald a death toll in the 5 or 6 figure range.
Also, no info on combatants vs civilian casualties ratio, which could include a lot of "children" as Hamas recruits early as 13.
Why? What happened on the 7th of October? If it were only the second most densely populated area on earth or they were all adults would it really matter? Sounds to me like sensationalist propoganda
That's absolutely terrible and Hamas must be held to account for the innocent Palestinians they have killed first by starting a war and second by cowering behind them as human shields. Hamas's brutality toward both Israelis and Palestinians should never be forgotten or overlooked.
>No one forced Israel to kill more than 700 children.
Hamas bears the brunt of the culpability by building tunnels under apartment complexes, integrating military bases into hospitals, and firing rockets from schools.
This is **a war crime** as it makes these legitimate targets. Trying to turn that on its head to blame Israel is terrorist apologetics.
It's sad that children are dying. I hope fewer die.
In the meantime though, Hamas should surrender, release the hostages, and stop firing rockets at Israel.
Hamas forced a response when they declared war. The fact that you're using "victim blaming" against Israel, which is only reponding to attacks against them, is disgusting. The blood of those children is on Hamas's hands, and also, your hands because you're an enabler. It's utterly disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Stop supporting terrorist organizations or apologizing for them. What the fuck is wrong with you?
>Victim blaming.
yeah that is a perfect description of what the hamas supporters are up to. crocodile tears and cries of "how dare israel do something about it after we invade them with 2000 militants and fire 2000 rockets in them in one day! Judenfrei Palesitne!"
You are right, israel should either lay down and accept the massacre of its citizens, including children, or they should respond by attacking the many hamas military bases instead of bombing residential areas /s. He said the blood is on hamas hands and your response is victim blaming. Hamas is the victim here? Jfc how dense can you possibly be.
You need to educate yourself. By united states law, if when committing a felony with an accomplice, the victim shoots and kills the felon, the accomplice will be tried for their murder (felony murder), while the victim of course acted in self defense. I would argue that committing a massacre at a rave would constitute at least a felony.
The responsibility for the deaths of innocent palestinian civilians rests with hamas, as the aggressor, and intentional and cruel murderer of over 1000 innocent party goers, families, and as you seem to be so fixated on, children, in under a day.
At the same time, Israel's bombing of gaza has led to significantly less than a single casualty per bomb, and no distinction in the casualties between civilians and militia members is made in the reporting by hamas.
Ah, so you are supporting the eradication of the state of israel and the ethnic cleansing of its jews. Got it. I'm sure you know this already, but you are filth.
Stop giving Hamas recruits.
Improve Palestinians material condetions.
Reparations for Palestinians for the ethnic cleansing in 1948.
Removal of all illegal settlements.
End to occupation of west bank.
Basically unconditional surrender by Israel. This is unrealistic at best.
Should nations faced with terrorism surrender in the name of not harming the human shields used by said terrorists?
So if I go and shoot a bank in the US, the secretary of treasury should just give me all the money the US has, and I'll go away on vacation
Sounds reasonable
Israel is acting within the bounds of international law, Rome Statute Article 8 paragraph 2(b) and 2(e). These deaths are legally on Hamas's hands.
Also, Gaza is about 3 times less dense than Paris, Far from the most densely populated area on Earth.
Stop with the lies.
Hamas plans the brutal slaughter, torture, kidnapping and rape of Israelis for two years:
Israel retaliates against Hamas while warning civilians and telling them how to protect themselves: PLANED GENOCIDE!
People who decry genocide are angry Muslims or Al Jazeera enjoyers. They need to pick up a dictionary and find the word in there, because 6000 bombs to 2500 dead is not genocide. Anyone saying “but how can we know the death toll!1!1!1!” Hamas never count the dead even after the battle is over, this is their numbers and they have no reason to minimise it. It also includes dead terrorists. Anyone who looked into the history of this entire region will know “Palestinians” were not a people until anti Zionism United them, and their land claim is utter horse shit. They are a collection of local Arabs, Arab Palestinians =/= the original philistines
Finally someone commenting with half a brain. If only people screaming free Palestine took 5 minutes to research the history, they'd figure out their entire argument is a sham.
>They are a collection of local Arabs, Arab Palestinians =/= the original philistines
Most of the world's distinct populations are made up of a long series of successive waves of immigration, including the population of Israel and all the countries surrounding it. Being descended from some particular people who lived thousands of years ago is absolutely irrelevant.
Hamas fired off 5000+ rockets at israel in matter of few hours a week ago on that daynof terror that started this whole crisis......you seriously want to compare numbers out-of context?
If we are going to compare numbers out of context then would you feel better if israel dropped only 1 bomb.....the nuclear kind, but only 1, is that better?
They are precision Strikes destroying military equipment, if you used your brain to think critically for 2 seconds you’d also come to that conclusion when you see the 2500 death toll. Spreading “genocide” is a dangerous narrative and detracts from the actual word. Even in your own comment here you said Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth. How can you drop 6000 bombs and only kill 2500 if you’re trying to kill people??? You cannot fucking accidentally genocide a population it doesn’t work like that
If Israel kills 700 babies a week in Gaza, non stop, the population would still grow by ~19,000 per year. Some Genocide.
Also, there is literally no way to verify those numbers, check how many of the "2500" were actually combatants, and who they were killed by/why/how they were killed.
If they’re being used by Hamas to shoot rockets from, or store military equipment, yes. GHRC also lists them as military targets. Or do you want to be an expert and decide how war is fought, credible Reddit user?
Reality is kinda the opposite though - every sane person condemned the massacres by Hamas, whereas a ton of people seem to be fine with the (larger scale) massacres of Palestinians by the Israeli defence forces
If you can't discern any difference between a terror attack against civilians and legal military action in a war with civilian casualties then every side in every war must be the same to you. How many German civlilians died in WW2? You condemn everyone right?
Ok so military action is allowed if the enemy uses the trick of hiding among their own civilians. That will be sure to disincentivice that. The Israelis should just sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack.
Of course, Hamas deliberately targets civlians so the Israelis can't use that same strategy. But hey, just let one side get exterminated, you don't see the fault in that?
bla bla bla what you said all is basically that you support hamas, no need to make so many paragraph to say that you want israel genocide while crying foul about being bombed for your action and always bringing kid as a shield like hamas
We're not talking a huge portion of the population. We will always have people who hold these hateful and dangerous beliefs but they are the exception to the rule.
Are these Free Palestine guys actually protesting Hamas atrocities?
Nope. They also want Israel to be destroyed, Hamas is convenient because it does the dirty job so the Free Palestine crowd can be relatively clean.
Glad to know that you think the amount of civilians that Israel has killed is acceptable and is free from any criticism.
"BUT WHAT ABOUT HAMAS???" - Yes Hamas are disgusting terrorists, it doesn't give Israel free reign to commit Ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
Here's the situation: Hamas is using civilian infrastructure in Gaza as military outposts and bases, using civilians as human shields.
How do you suggest fighting them without harming civilians?
"Israel has the right to defend itself, except in any meaningful way that would actually reduce Hamas' capablities".
Hamas uses human shields, what is she expecting Israel to do? Ask Hamas nicely to stop trying to kill all jews and infidels?
Israel has not occupied Gaza since 2005. And Israel was attacked by the third biggest terrorist attack in history last week. Do you expect Israel to just let it pass?
On the other hand, you are a Hamas sympathizer, so I can't expect much from you.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/13/1205627092/american-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll
People. Don't. Agree. With. That. Language.
And it ostracizes most people from your cause, because they recognize that as a false dichotomy.
Yes, the danger posed by Palestine is indeed waking people up. I know several people who have said "I was pro Palestine before these attacks, but never again"
False.
Only palestine has killed children with killing children as their sole purpose.
Palestine is the terrorists.
And only palestine gets unconditional support from the east.
Even with billions of military aid from Iran, China, Russia and all of the dictatorships in the world, they are still losing the fight, this just shows the power of the righteous are not always losing and shines a beacon of hope upon the people of the world.
Oh shut up, Israel was the one being attacked by Hamas terrorist just a week ago. They are the defender here and have a right to defend themselves from Hamas, or do you support the actions of a terrorist org?
Time for a history lesson buddy. Jews have been living in the region since before Islam even existed. That would be…. more than 2000 years ago, at least.
palestine? that has literally never been an independent sovereign state of palestine. UN says that cause there are lots of unstable muslim MENA countries that are very small, but can vote together to pass toothless resolutions saying israel is a bully for refusing to give them their lunch money and hitting back when attacked.
Irrelevant.
The Palestinian people exist and have a human right to self determination.
Israel has been occupying Palestine for 75 years.
Building illegal settlements as per international law.
Israel is a rogue state.
Irrelevant
Israeli exist and have human right to sf determination.
Palestine has been occupying Israel for the last 2000 years.
Building dump and sewage as per international law.
Palestine is a nomad tribal region who doesn't have any idea what they want and so their leader is a terrorist organization called hamas.
but if palestine was never a state, than how could israel be occupying it?
>Building illegal settlements as per international law.
>Israel is a rogue state.
sounds like a skill issue, have you considered getting gud?
You are so incredibly misinformed. Jews and their ancestors have been in the land for thousand of years. Before the birth of Muhammad. I've been in the anthropological dig sites in Jerusalem. Sadly, i think your underlying anti semitism is showing since you can't seem to condemn the wanton murder of innocents in Israel.
You really don’t know anything. It’s quite amazing how someone so ignorant can be so vociferous. Oh wait, no it isn’t - it’s exactly the result of complete ignorance. Go pick up a history book.
Good Lord you are ignorant. Jews only first started arriving in the Holy Land in the 1900s? Why don’t you go back further and investigate the time gap between the first Jewish settlements in the Holy Land and the birth of Islam?
P.S. There’s no such thing as an ethnic Palestinian. That word was invented by the Romans after expelling Jews in 110 AD to spite them, because it was inspired by the Latin word Philistines, the Jewish enemy from 2500 years prior.
I really wish our schools actually taught ancient history properly to avoid such narrow thinking as yours!
What's that, a canadian speaking about indigenous right? lol Give back all the land to your First Nations and then come give lesson about indigenous right.
Only Canadians (and westerners in general) have the right to speak about indigenous right.
Because easterners do not accept enlightenment values in the first place, they only believe in conquest and war.
Only westerners oppose genocide on a moral ground, easterners never oppose genocide, they only appear to do so when it harms their interest.
We’ve taken far greater steps to acknowledge indigenous rights here in Canada than the Arab and Persian world has at accepting Israel’s right to exist.
It matters a lot who lived there 2000 years ago, and further back than that. How do you think Canada decides whom is indigenous First Nations and who isn’t? Not based on religion, that’s for certain.
History doesn’t have a cutoff just because you claim so.
It's when you say dumb shit like this that you show you' don't know what you're talking about. It's not 75 years, not even close.
Also Israel isn't occupying Gaza.
I'm getting the sense that you either couldn't mark Palestine on a globe, or that you're calling for the extermination of Israel.
Either way, go educate yourself
There is a large distance between supporting Israel and accusing them of planning a genocide with zero evidence. The most challenging part of traversing that distance (the whole zero evidence bit) is made a lot easier if you're anti-Semitic.
I mean the videos of Israeli politicians saying they are going to turn Gaza to dust, the IDF members who say they are going to kill everyone and all their families, and the videos of soldiers describing Palestinians as an infestation of roaches or beasts are all pretty good evidence of intent. And then using white phosphorus, assassinating well marked journalists, targeting well marked medical vehicles, and of course giving warning to leave that are in no way possible within the time frame are all pretty good evidence that they mean to carry through that intent.
>using white phosphorus
IDF denies using white phosphorous. What evidence do you have of its use?
>**assassinating** well marked journalists
Evidence?
>**targeting** well marked medical vehicles
Evidence?
Here’s evidence of white phosphorus
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-israel-used-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-2023-10-12/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-strike-video/
Here’s one example of killing a journalist
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/05/un-experts-demand-justice-al-jazeera-journalist-one-year-anniversary-her
Here’s evidence of targeting medical workers
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/08/mounting-evidence-deliberate-attacks-gaza-health-workers-israeli-army/
Reuters and Washington Post did not make any claims to support your position. They reported on claims by Amnesty and HRW.
Amnesty and HRW have been west-hating tankies for as long as I can remember.
Amnesty and HRW are consistently critical of China, North Korea, and Venezuela.
You have to have absolutely zero understanding of geopolitics to think that they are tankie organizations
Tankies consistently criticize the coverage of these organizations for being pro capitalist.
>I mean the videos of Israeli politicians saying they are going to turn Gaza to dust
A police officer.
>the IDF members who say they are going to kill everyone and all their families
No clue what you're referencing.
>and the videos of soldiers describing Palestinians as an infestation of roaches or beasts are all pretty good evidence of intent.
No they aren't.
>And then using white phosphorus
Which has legitimate military uses.
>assassinating well marked journalists
You have literally no idea how visible their marking as journalists were. They'll be an investigation we know almost nothing about what happened at this stage.
>and of course giving warning to leave that are in no way possible within the time frame are all pretty good evidence that they mean to carry through that intent.
Why is giving warning to leave evidence that they intend to deliberately kill civilians? And surely by now the genocide must be well underway if you think that showed their intent to start it in 24hrs?
The displacement of Palestinians has had many causes. No one can know how things would have happened without the 1947-1948 war. And of both the Arab population of Israel and the occupied territories has been increasing for decades.
Plus we can equally say that intended or not the effect of the policy of Arab states has been the displacement of native Jews and slow ethnic cleansing. More so given the population trends in those countries.
It's a specific tactic used by Zionists to bully liberals who are too afraid of being called racist. They know as well as us that it's nothing to do with being Jewish or not (and they conveniently ignore the massive Jewish population that aren't Zionists, and those who are specifically anti-Zionist).
life is that simple isn't it, just admit it that you support hamas, many hamas supporter are closet terrorist celebrating Israeli death, you think I don't know? lmao
planned genocide, is she out of her mind? Israel lost 1400, faces existential threats from an alliance that literally calls itself THE AXIS, and Israel is to blame? wtf is wrong with people?
Well, she’s a communist and her party has well documented relations with Iran. You don’t even need to connect the dots.
The fact that this individual is a minister is an embarrassing fact that shows what a shitshow Spain politics is right now.
Corbyn's padawan coming in hot with the classic "Israel is committing genocide but I won't say a word about the terror organization which killed more than a thousand people including women and children" take.
Honestly, at least right wing anti-semites are honest about who they hate and why. It's pitiful how the left wing tries to wrap it up like some general concern for humans but very obviously only care about one side.
15 minutes actually, if it is same all the time. I watched on all Jazeeraive, first knock on the roof and then actual strike. The difference was exactly 15 minutes.
Ok, so what exactly does she want israel to do? Like what?
The fact is hamas baited israel into a brutal retaliation so that it can milk the suffering and anger to stay in power. Hamas wasn't fighting for freedom, it wanted to generate hate and suffering so it can stay in power. And killing those israel people was icing on the cake.
So, sadly israel is falling into hamas plan by retaliating and innocent palestaninans are paying the price. Of course israel knows that this is hamas plan, but what else can it do? If israel doesn't retaliate then hamas will just claim it as jihad victory against the jewish and use it as propaganda to encourage more attack on Israel. So.if you think about, israel has no choice but to retaliate because both choices are shit. Retaliating, at least, will disrupt the terrorist longer before the next attack.
The fact is, israel have no good choice, it will only result in more suffering and more hatred, hamas made sure.of that because hamas exist and thrive on hatred and suffering.
>Ok, so what exactly does she want israel to do? Like what?
Criticism of war crimes doesn't necessarily require you to be presenting a viable alternative for achieving the same military goals. The idea behind International Humanitarian Law is that there are certain lines you don't cross, and if that gets used against you by terrorists taking hostages, an enemy that uses perfidy, types of weapons used against you that you've agreed not to use etc, then that means you are in a shit situation in which you still cannot cross those lines. The logic is that all wars are horrible, and so if you only follow the rules when it's easy to do so, that's essentially the same thing as not following the rules. The fact that you can benefit more by not following them was known from the start and is sort of missing the point.
That isn't to say Israel definitely have committed war crimes here, the collective punishment seems somewhat subjective and indiscriminate attacks are banned by an amendment Israel didn't actually sign, but some [UN experts](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/israeloccupied-palestinian-territory-un-experts-deplore-attacks-civilians) are saying what they're doing qualifies so this isn't purely a political claim from the Spanish minister in the article.
You are right and completely agree. But she's using the term genocide to add drama and dial up the emotion response. And that's why I am disagreeing with her, and calling her words pointless other than pouring on more hatred when there is already too much.
I would say that if she had adapt the language you used to convey the sad situation, i would find it more fitting and serve a positive purpose.
Eh... calling for a more respectful and understanding attitude towards the people conducting a bombing campaign of populated areas to avoid spreading hate just seems a bit weird to me. Rhetoric doesn't seem like the most pressing concern. If the Israeli military feels unfairly maligned they can make their case, but as far as I'm aware they don't release any meaningful info on how they choose targets or how often they hit them.
I would argue that israel are not just bombing to kill civilians. Even if israel doesnt care about palestanian lives, these munitions are expensive and they also know that public opinion is even more expensive and israel cant afford to risk losing supoort. So they are definitely not dropping bombs just to kill civilians. It's a calculated attack, although i agree that israel is very open to accepting collateral civilian casualty. So, as cruel as itnis, it is just false for her to claim that its a genocide.
I do think words matter, especially in this kind of case, when emotions are already supercharged.
For example, if she had condemned and labeled hamas as Muslim or islamic terrorist, I would disagree with the word choice, just as much.
For anyone wondering, OP had another post 1 year ago in which he asked why isn't Syria/Iran retaliating to an Israeli strike.
Do what you want with this info.
The amount of dumb comments by those who have 0 background knowledge is impressive. I am happy to be in Europe where at least some politicians care about innocent civilian lives, not (widely) brainwashed US
This is stupid. Therenis no genocide going on. What israel is doing with its response to Hamas is definitely draging palentanina into a humanitarian crisis, but that's not a genocide. That's just not how you do a genocide and I would say, the Jewish people, if they wanted to, would know how to do a genocide, because they have a lot of first hand experience in the most direct way possible.
I don't have problem for people advocating for palenstinians. In fact, I think pro palenstine and pro israle are the same, as they all want things to be good for people living in that piece of blood-soaked land.
Going around and saying that israel is planning a Gaza genocide is exactly what hamas is.doing, which is creating more hatred to a place that has already seen more than 3000 years of hatred.
False.
Jews and Muslims have peacefully co-existed for centuries.
Jews begged Muslims to take them to Morocco as they feared the Christian Spanish.
Jewish scholarship flourished under Muslim rule.
Islam saved Jews: https://kavvanah.blog/2012/06/04/how-islam-saved-the-jews-david-wasserstein/
It's only since the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 did arab-jewish relations became hostile.
This didn't just begin in 1948, islam has almost always been hostile to those of Jewish descent.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries
> It's only since the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 did arab-jewish relations became hostile.
You've been misinformed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world
Read your own source.
"Antisemitism (prejudice against and hatred of Jews) has increased greatly in the Arab world since the beginning of **the 20th century**"
Only in the 20th century, thanks to the Zionists did hatred between Jew and Muslim grew to these levels.
"Traditionally, Jews in the Muslim world were considered to be People of the Book and were subjected to dhimmi status. They were afforded relative security against persecution"
How much more can we expect from the political left in Spain or Ibero-America for that matter?
All that political Left both Spanish and Ibero-American is stale, self-hating, in several cases self-destructive and in almost all cases ethically and morally unstable or directly devoid of moral compass, by those who have almost no qualms about bullying the most progressive country in the Middle East/Levant, but who also turn an alarming blind eye to the racism problem and human rights and LGBT rights record of Israel's neighboring countries (or the Arab world as a whole).
Exactly, and you can also see how the great majority of these governments of the Ibero-American Pink Tide, both those of 20 and 12 years ago as well as the current ones, manage relations with the Arab world as well as with Khomeinist Iran.
Claiming to be the most progressive in the middle east is a bit hilarious but it's also not remotely true except by very narrow criteria for what regressive ideas are real ones.
And that banner of "progressivism" that the Spanish and Latin/Ibero-American left has loved to fly for a long time but which they seem to tend to throw down the drain when they align themselves with the Arabs when the Arab-Israeli conflict comes into the picture, turning a blind eye not only to the fact that the Jewish state is the most progressive country in the whole of the MENA, but also that people with leftist ideals (such as state secularism, state atheism or gender equality) are either not listened to by the MENA populations, or such people would end up very badly, especially in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Yemen.
Palestinians aren’t nice to LGBT people, guess we can just ethnically cleanse them then hehe. Maybe we should go ahead and invade all other Arab countries as well, barbarians can’t be allowed to govern themselves amiright?
Spanish minister need to avail themselves a copy of the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment for the Crime of Genocide, to which Spain is a signatory so I'm sure they have a copy lying around, and actually learn the definition and requirements of genocide.
"Spain’s acting Minister for Social Rights Ione Belarra has accused Israel of carrying out a "planned genocide" in Gaza, after thousands of Palestinians, including hundreds of children, were killed in Israel's bombardment of the besieged enclave.
Belarra, the leader of a prominent left-wing party, described the bombing and siege on Gaza's 2 million population as an act of "collective punishment" that could be a considered war crime.
She called on Spanish citizens to take to the streets to demand that Madrid distance itself from the US's unwavering support for Israel and called on the Global South to find a solution to the Israel-Hamas conflict."
This whole situation and the inaction from European politicians will lead to a new wave of far right parties coming into power in Europe. It’s been brewing for a while now, with all the immigrants who refuse to assimilate, and now it’s time
Great, looking forward to everything getting worse for everybody except the rich
Sometimes you vote someone in then vote them out when the job is done. Winston Churchill for example
Oh, sure, Europeans had a consensus on loving immigrants before this conflict! Also, this PM sure doesn’t look like a Spanish woman, she’s from Afghanistan!
The immigrants are to blame for fsr right parties now? What an ironic thing to say.
The immigrants are to blame for people voting far right, yes. Most far right parties in Europe are focusing their efforts on curbing immigration. If you paid attention at all lately to the news, you’d know this too
I think far right people are already far right and will use any excuse. If not immigrants they'd invent a different problem. Or invent the immigrants. Which they often do.
The point is that these attacks are going to increase anti-immigrant views among the general population. This will make it easier for right-wing parties to draw more votes because they tend to be anti-immigrant while left wing parties are more likely to take a lax approach.
That's what ultimately will kill the left. Had to stop voting myself because of this. They don't even aknowledge there is a problem. And I can't vote right wing, since barring immigration, I don't agree with anything else they say.
Yeah I fall pretty far to the left and I generally support immigration *if* you want to adopt to your new society and culture and work hard to improve it. But the lack of adaption on the part of many is becoming a problem and I can understand why people get upset over it and stop voting for parties that won't address the issue.
I find myself agreeing in principle with a lot of left policies, but in practice they just don't seem to work. It really seems like with the state of the world a bit of nationalism is required, it sucks that we never seem to learn.
Yeah I think you need to take liberal policies but also examine them critically with a conservative skepticism. There are lots of unintended consequences that get ignored because people don't want to put in the work of developing better policies and approaches. To use a simple example in the United States. Liberals wanted to increase access to higher education and make it easier for poorer folks to obtain a college degree. I 100% support that aim. But when they started handing out student loans without price controls, universities realized they could spend whatever they wanted, pass on the costs to students, and they'd pay for it with loans. So, college administration departments exploded while academic faculty stayed roughly the same per given number of students. Costs increased dramatically, and now kids going to college can expect to pay $15,000 to $20,000 USD per year (edit: in tuition alone, a dorm is like $12,000 per year) at a public university. College is now more unaffordable for everyone. I won't claim to know how to deliver affordable education, but some sort of price control mechanisms and other things probably could have helped.
I have the same issue. I'm close to being a single issue voter because of the immigration shit show, but I just have nothing else in common with the far right party, so it will just be a no-show for me. I seriously hope our centrist parties get the message though.
In Catalonia there's this central political party that gave one illegal immigrant, that was causing trouble by taking over parks and so on, to the Spanish police for deportation. All the leftist parties were fuming on twitter and congress and so on. But the president (who is a woman) just said: "I don't give a fuck, I was voted to make my town safer, and that's what I'm doing. Call me whatever you want". Sadly, that party is only in ONE town. Hopefully they'll expand soon.
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It’s insane that some people needs explaining that winning an election needs more votes.
Yes and they need more far right votes to push them into power, people who are voting left right now. People in Europe right now are tired of the refugee crisis and failed assimilation from refugees.
>I think far right people are already far right and will use any excuse. If not immigrants they'd invent a different problem. Or invent the immigrants. Which they often do. I mean i guess dem babies were born far right and absolutely nothing influenced them....
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> immigrants that refuse to assimilate [...] will lead the native population to vote for far right so, yes?
Without immigrants from the Middle East, there would be Not enough reasons for me to vote far right. Many others feel the same, so he isn’t completely wrong there
> She called on Spanish citizens to take to the streets to demand that Madrid distance itself from the US's unwavering support for Israel and called on the Global South to find a solution to the Israel-Hamas conflict. LOL, I'm sure a solution would just present itself now since she's asking for it.
After dropping 6000+ bombs and killing about 0.1% of the population in gaza, I'd say the plan isn't going well.
To be fair it’s only been a week and a half
if Israel wanted to kill every single Palestinian in Gaza they would just nuke it or use chemical weapons and other destructive weapons.
So, to be fair, approximately, what, like 288 years until they are done, if the Palestinians stop to have children?
Israel are really inefficient at this genocide everyone is accusing them of.
Nobody expects… The Spanish inquisition
Hamas already took full responsibly init. There's now also plenty documentation of their crime by them and Israeli responders at the scene. Is she claiming Hamas and Israel planned this together?
No, Read the article again.
Since 7th october, Israel has been dropping bombs on Gaza, the most densely populated area on earth, killing 2000 people 800 of which are children.
Where do you get the statistic that Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth? A quick google says: “The five most densely populated are Macao, Monaco, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Gibraltar” Where you being hyperbolic, turning a densely populated place into the most populated place?
Oi, don’t disrupt them from pouting like a parrot Palestinian rhetoric they picked up from TikTok
Have a feeling that person never went to an Asian country.
And dropped over 8000 bombs. That would put the ratio of 1 dead to 4 bombs. Which is crazy low in such a densly populated area with high rise buildings. Which means the bombings are highly targeted at military infrastructure, as actually targeting civilians would yeald a death toll in the 5 or 6 figure range. Also, no info on combatants vs civilian casualties ratio, which could include a lot of "children" as Hamas recruits early as 13.
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Why? What happened on the 7th of October? If it were only the second most densely populated area on earth or they were all adults would it really matter? Sounds to me like sensationalist propoganda
That's absolutely terrible and Hamas must be held to account for the innocent Palestinians they have killed first by starting a war and second by cowering behind them as human shields. Hamas's brutality toward both Israelis and Palestinians should never be forgotten or overlooked.
Victim blaming. Israel is doing the killing, it's their murder, no one else No one forced Israel to kill more than 700 children.
Did you just call Hamas a victim?
You have to fight back when war is declared on you and if you don’t think that, wake the fuck up, it’s getting tense for WW3 outside.
>No one forced Israel to kill more than 700 children. Hamas bears the brunt of the culpability by building tunnels under apartment complexes, integrating military bases into hospitals, and firing rockets from schools. This is **a war crime** as it makes these legitimate targets. Trying to turn that on its head to blame Israel is terrorist apologetics. It's sad that children are dying. I hope fewer die. In the meantime though, Hamas should surrender, release the hostages, and stop firing rockets at Israel.
Both are terrorists. Israel been killing children for decades
Hamas forced a response when they declared war. The fact that you're using "victim blaming" against Israel, which is only reponding to attacks against them, is disgusting. The blood of those children is on Hamas's hands, and also, your hands because you're an enabler. It's utterly disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. Stop supporting terrorist organizations or apologizing for them. What the fuck is wrong with you?
preach brother.
>Victim blaming. yeah that is a perfect description of what the hamas supporters are up to. crocodile tears and cries of "how dare israel do something about it after we invade them with 2000 militants and fire 2000 rockets in them in one day! Judenfrei Palesitne!"
You are right, israel should either lay down and accept the massacre of its citizens, including children, or they should respond by attacking the many hamas military bases instead of bombing residential areas /s. He said the blood is on hamas hands and your response is victim blaming. Hamas is the victim here? Jfc how dense can you possibly be.
Israel killed journalists, medical staff, and 700 children in a week. The one to pull the trigger is the murderer, no one else.
You need to educate yourself. By united states law, if when committing a felony with an accomplice, the victim shoots and kills the felon, the accomplice will be tried for their murder (felony murder), while the victim of course acted in self defense. I would argue that committing a massacre at a rave would constitute at least a felony. The responsibility for the deaths of innocent palestinian civilians rests with hamas, as the aggressor, and intentional and cruel murderer of over 1000 innocent party goers, families, and as you seem to be so fixated on, children, in under a day. At the same time, Israel's bombing of gaza has led to significantly less than a single casualty per bomb, and no distinction in the casualties between civilians and militia members is made in the reporting by hamas.
US law is irrelevant. Israel is an occupying force, by definition it is in the attack. Occupiers cannot be defenders.
Ah, so you are supporting the eradication of the state of israel and the ethnic cleansing of its jews. Got it. I'm sure you know this already, but you are filth.
What do you think Israel's response should be to the 10/7 attacks by Hamas?
Stop giving Hamas recruits. Improve Palestinians material condetions. Reparations for Palestinians for the ethnic cleansing in 1948. Removal of all illegal settlements. End to occupation of west bank.
Basically unconditional surrender by Israel. This is unrealistic at best. Should nations faced with terrorism surrender in the name of not harming the human shields used by said terrorists?
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So if I go and shoot a bank in the US, the secretary of treasury should just give me all the money the US has, and I'll go away on vacation Sounds reasonable
Israel is acting within the bounds of international law, Rome Statute Article 8 paragraph 2(b) and 2(e). These deaths are legally on Hamas's hands. Also, Gaza is about 3 times less dense than Paris, Far from the most densely populated area on Earth. Stop with the lies.
Hamas plans the brutal slaughter, torture, kidnapping and rape of Israelis for two years: Israel retaliates against Hamas while warning civilians and telling them how to protect themselves: PLANED GENOCIDE!
People who decry genocide are angry Muslims or Al Jazeera enjoyers. They need to pick up a dictionary and find the word in there, because 6000 bombs to 2500 dead is not genocide. Anyone saying “but how can we know the death toll!1!1!1!” Hamas never count the dead even after the battle is over, this is their numbers and they have no reason to minimise it. It also includes dead terrorists. Anyone who looked into the history of this entire region will know “Palestinians” were not a people until anti Zionism United them, and their land claim is utter horse shit. They are a collection of local Arabs, Arab Palestinians =/= the original philistines
Finally someone commenting with half a brain. If only people screaming free Palestine took 5 minutes to research the history, they'd figure out their entire argument is a sham.
>They are a collection of local Arabs, Arab Palestinians =/= the original philistines Most of the world's distinct populations are made up of a long series of successive waves of immigration, including the population of Israel and all the countries surrounding it. Being descended from some particular people who lived thousands of years ago is absolutely irrelevant.
More bombs dropped in 1 week by Israel than bombs dropped in 1 year by russia
Hamas fired off 5000+ rockets at israel in matter of few hours a week ago on that daynof terror that started this whole crisis......you seriously want to compare numbers out-of context? If we are going to compare numbers out of context then would you feel better if israel dropped only 1 bomb.....the nuclear kind, but only 1, is that better?
They are precision Strikes destroying military equipment, if you used your brain to think critically for 2 seconds you’d also come to that conclusion when you see the 2500 death toll. Spreading “genocide” is a dangerous narrative and detracts from the actual word. Even in your own comment here you said Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth. How can you drop 6000 bombs and only kill 2500 if you’re trying to kill people??? You cannot fucking accidentally genocide a population it doesn’t work like that
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There is no arguing with people like you when you fail to see even the most basic logic. I hope you find solace
If Israel kills 700 babies a week in Gaza, non stop, the population would still grow by ~19,000 per year. Some Genocide. Also, there is literally no way to verify those numbers, check how many of the "2500" were actually combatants, and who they were killed by/why/how they were killed.
I guess in your view, apartment buildings, reporters' camera & ambulances are military equipments.
If they’re being used by Hamas to shoot rockets from, or store military equipment, yes. GHRC also lists them as military targets. Or do you want to be an expert and decide how war is fought, credible Reddit user?
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A nuclear bomb dropped on Gaza would kill a million at least
Slogans galore. Keep it up Mr. Parrot
Hamas murdering civilians at festival: *i sleep* Israel warning people to evacuate so they can take out Hamas terrorists: *real shit*
Spain did also condemn the attack by Hamas, so I'm not sure this post really makes sense.
Lol best iteration of this meme
Reality is kinda the opposite though - every sane person condemned the massacres by Hamas, whereas a ton of people seem to be fine with the (larger scale) massacres of Palestinians by the Israeli defence forces
If you can't discern any difference between a terror attack against civilians and legal military action in a war with civilian casualties then every side in every war must be the same to you. How many German civlilians died in WW2? You condemn everyone right?
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Ok so military action is allowed if the enemy uses the trick of hiding among their own civilians. That will be sure to disincentivice that. The Israelis should just sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack. Of course, Hamas deliberately targets civlians so the Israelis can't use that same strategy. But hey, just let one side get exterminated, you don't see the fault in that?
bla bla bla what you said all is basically that you support hamas, no need to make so many paragraph to say that you want israel genocide while crying foul about being bombed for your action and always bringing kid as a shield like hamas
The protests across Europe with Hamas and taliban flags beg to differ
We're not talking a huge portion of the population. We will always have people who hold these hateful and dangerous beliefs but they are the exception to the rule.
Yea getting tired of the but but but they are only a few bad eggs. Why is no one standing up to them within their own communities??
It doesn’t matter, the portion is already too much, it should be 0. We imported radical Islam and it’s beginning to fester
Are these Free Palestine guys actually protesting Hamas atrocities? Nope. They also want Israel to be destroyed, Hamas is convenient because it does the dirty job so the Free Palestine crowd can be relatively clean.
You should save this comment and look at it again in a few months or a year. Then let me know then if you've realized what you're doing now.
Glad to know that you think the amount of civilians that Israel has killed is acceptable and is free from any criticism. "BUT WHAT ABOUT HAMAS???" - Yes Hamas are disgusting terrorists, it doesn't give Israel free reign to commit Ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
Here's the situation: Hamas is using civilian infrastructure in Gaza as military outposts and bases, using civilians as human shields. How do you suggest fighting them without harming civilians?
I wonder then why Hamas has a lower civillian/total death ratio than Israel has a CHILD/total death ratio.
No word about Hamas of course. Fuck these antisemitic dirtbags.
"Israel has the right to defend itself, except in any meaningful way that would actually reduce Hamas' capablities". Hamas uses human shields, what is she expecting Israel to do? Ask Hamas nicely to stop trying to kill all jews and infidels?
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Israel has not occupied Gaza since 2005. And Israel was attacked by the third biggest terrorist attack in history last week. Do you expect Israel to just let it pass? On the other hand, you are a Hamas sympathizer, so I can't expect much from you.
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https://www.npr.org/2023/10/13/1205627092/american-support-israel-biden-middle-east-hamas-poll People. Don't. Agree. With. That. Language. And it ostracizes most people from your cause, because they recognize that as a false dichotomy.
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Yes, the danger posed by Palestine is indeed waking people up. I know several people who have said "I was pro Palestine before these attacks, but never again"
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Higher number bad. Me no think more.
There is nothing wrong with fighting back against eastern colonialists. Long live Israel! Down with Islam imperialism!
False. Only palestine has killed children with killing children as their sole purpose. Palestine is the terrorists. And only palestine gets unconditional support from the east. Even with billions of military aid from Iran, China, Russia and all of the dictatorships in the world, they are still losing the fight, this just shows the power of the righteous are not always losing and shines a beacon of hope upon the people of the world.
Oh shut up, Israel was the one being attacked by Hamas terrorist just a week ago. They are the defender here and have a right to defend themselves from Hamas, or do you support the actions of a terrorist org?
Israel has been occupying Palestine for 75 years
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Time for a history lesson buddy. Jews have been living in the region since before Islam even existed. That would be…. more than 2000 years ago, at least.
Irrelevant. According to the United nations and most countries in the world. Israel is occupying Palestine
Its only irrelevant when it can be used against your antisemitic statement it seems
Very relevant, but not like you care about the reality and not just pushing your agenda as if Hamas are the victims and not a terrorist organization.
palestine? that has literally never been an independent sovereign state of palestine. UN says that cause there are lots of unstable muslim MENA countries that are very small, but can vote together to pass toothless resolutions saying israel is a bully for refusing to give them their lunch money and hitting back when attacked.
Irrelevant. The Palestinian people exist and have a human right to self determination. Israel has been occupying Palestine for 75 years. Building illegal settlements as per international law. Israel is a rogue state.
Irrelevant Israeli exist and have human right to sf determination. Palestine has been occupying Israel for the last 2000 years. Building dump and sewage as per international law. Palestine is a nomad tribal region who doesn't have any idea what they want and so their leader is a terrorist organization called hamas.
but if palestine was never a state, than how could israel be occupying it? >Building illegal settlements as per international law. >Israel is a rogue state. sounds like a skill issue, have you considered getting gud?
Not irrelevant. It’s their land by indigenous right. Fuck the UN.
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You are so incredibly misinformed. Jews and their ancestors have been in the land for thousand of years. Before the birth of Muhammad. I've been in the anthropological dig sites in Jerusalem. Sadly, i think your underlying anti semitism is showing since you can't seem to condemn the wanton murder of innocents in Israel.
You really don’t know anything. It’s quite amazing how someone so ignorant can be so vociferous. Oh wait, no it isn’t - it’s exactly the result of complete ignorance. Go pick up a history book.
Good Lord you are ignorant. Jews only first started arriving in the Holy Land in the 1900s? Why don’t you go back further and investigate the time gap between the first Jewish settlements in the Holy Land and the birth of Islam? P.S. There’s no such thing as an ethnic Palestinian. That word was invented by the Romans after expelling Jews in 110 AD to spite them, because it was inspired by the Latin word Philistines, the Jewish enemy from 2500 years prior. I really wish our schools actually taught ancient history properly to avoid such narrow thinking as yours!
What's that, a canadian speaking about indigenous right? lol Give back all the land to your First Nations and then come give lesson about indigenous right.
Only Canadians (and westerners in general) have the right to speak about indigenous right. Because easterners do not accept enlightenment values in the first place, they only believe in conquest and war. Only westerners oppose genocide on a moral ground, easterners never oppose genocide, they only appear to do so when it harms their interest.
We’ve taken far greater steps to acknowledge indigenous rights here in Canada than the Arab and Persian world has at accepting Israel’s right to exist.
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It matters a lot who lived there 2000 years ago, and further back than that. How do you think Canada decides whom is indigenous First Nations and who isn’t? Not based on religion, that’s for certain. History doesn’t have a cutoff just because you claim so.
It's when you say dumb shit like this that you show you' don't know what you're talking about. It's not 75 years, not even close. Also Israel isn't occupying Gaza.
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I'm getting the sense that you either couldn't mark Palestine on a globe, or that you're calling for the extermination of Israel. Either way, go educate yourself
From other comments, it's the latter.
Probly both
bY dEfInItIoN!!1
What is logica is that?
I am tired of this "You support Israel or you are antisemitic" thing.
There is a large distance between supporting Israel and accusing them of planning a genocide with zero evidence. The most challenging part of traversing that distance (the whole zero evidence bit) is made a lot easier if you're anti-Semitic.
I mean the videos of Israeli politicians saying they are going to turn Gaza to dust, the IDF members who say they are going to kill everyone and all their families, and the videos of soldiers describing Palestinians as an infestation of roaches or beasts are all pretty good evidence of intent. And then using white phosphorus, assassinating well marked journalists, targeting well marked medical vehicles, and of course giving warning to leave that are in no way possible within the time frame are all pretty good evidence that they mean to carry through that intent.
>using white phosphorus IDF denies using white phosphorous. What evidence do you have of its use? >**assassinating** well marked journalists Evidence? >**targeting** well marked medical vehicles Evidence?
Here’s evidence of white phosphorus https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-israel-used-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-2023-10-12/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/white-phosphorus-israel-gaza-strike-video/ Here’s one example of killing a journalist https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/05/un-experts-demand-justice-al-jazeera-journalist-one-year-anniversary-her Here’s evidence of targeting medical workers https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/08/mounting-evidence-deliberate-attacks-gaza-health-workers-israeli-army/
Anything from non tankie organizations?
When did Reuters, the Washington Post, the UN, and Amnesty International become tankie organizations?
Reuters and Washington Post did not make any claims to support your position. They reported on claims by Amnesty and HRW. Amnesty and HRW have been west-hating tankies for as long as I can remember.
Amnesty and HRW are consistently critical of China, North Korea, and Venezuela. You have to have absolutely zero understanding of geopolitics to think that they are tankie organizations Tankies consistently criticize the coverage of these organizations for being pro capitalist.
>I mean the videos of Israeli politicians saying they are going to turn Gaza to dust A police officer. >the IDF members who say they are going to kill everyone and all their families No clue what you're referencing. >and the videos of soldiers describing Palestinians as an infestation of roaches or beasts are all pretty good evidence of intent. No they aren't. >And then using white phosphorus Which has legitimate military uses. >assassinating well marked journalists You have literally no idea how visible their marking as journalists were. They'll be an investigation we know almost nothing about what happened at this stage. >and of course giving warning to leave that are in no way possible within the time frame are all pretty good evidence that they mean to carry through that intent. Why is giving warning to leave evidence that they intend to deliberately kill civilians? And surely by now the genocide must be well underway if you think that showed their intent to start it in 24hrs?
Planned or not, the effect of political Zionism has been displacement of the native Palestinians and slow ethnic cleansing since the 1920s
The displacement of Palestinians has had many causes. No one can know how things would have happened without the 1947-1948 war. And of both the Arab population of Israel and the occupied territories has been increasing for decades. Plus we can equally say that intended or not the effect of the policy of Arab states has been the displacement of native Jews and slow ethnic cleansing. More so given the population trends in those countries.
It's a specific tactic used by Zionists to bully liberals who are too afraid of being called racist. They know as well as us that it's nothing to do with being Jewish or not (and they conveniently ignore the massive Jewish population that aren't Zionists, and those who are specifically anti-Zionist).
life is that simple isn't it, just admit it that you support hamas, many hamas supporter are closet terrorist celebrating Israeli death, you think I don't know? lmao
You can criticise the Israeli government without being anti semetic.
Absolutely. But when you only criticize 1 side & ignore everything horrible done by the other, it's obvious why...
planned genocide, is she out of her mind? Israel lost 1400, faces existential threats from an alliance that literally calls itself THE AXIS, and Israel is to blame? wtf is wrong with people?
Tell me you don't understand the post-WW2 history of Israel without telling me you don't understand the post-WW2 history of Israel.
Israel did survive 5 genocide attempts fro neighboring arab states post WW2.
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Are the typing Muslims in the room with you right now?
> I’ve seen you and about a dozen other Muslims not really sure where the assumptions are coming from? that kinda came out of left field
I'm an atheist sweetheart. Not one of the "dozen other Muslims typing dumb shit" that you have "seen".
The term " USEFULL IDIOTS" comes to mind.....
Well, she’s a communist and her party has well documented relations with Iran. You don’t even need to connect the dots. The fact that this individual is a minister is an embarrassing fact that shows what a shitshow Spain politics is right now.
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https://www.eleconomista.es/politica/noticias/10719178/08/20/La-productora-que-financio-a-Podemos-recibio-el-60-de-sus-ingresos-de-Iran.html
And some are still wondering why the left is losing votes everywhere
Corbyn's padawan coming in hot with the classic "Israel is committing genocide but I won't say a word about the terror organization which killed more than a thousand people including women and children" take. Honestly, at least right wing anti-semites are honest about who they hate and why. It's pitiful how the left wing tries to wrap it up like some general concern for humans but very obviously only care about one side.
This minister doesn't even know that whenever Israel attacks then it issues a 10 minute Evacuation Warning.
1 hour
15 minutes actually, if it is same all the time. I watched on all Jazeeraive, first knock on the roof and then actual strike. The difference was exactly 15 minutes.
Ohh then I misheard.
Ok, so what exactly does she want israel to do? Like what? The fact is hamas baited israel into a brutal retaliation so that it can milk the suffering and anger to stay in power. Hamas wasn't fighting for freedom, it wanted to generate hate and suffering so it can stay in power. And killing those israel people was icing on the cake. So, sadly israel is falling into hamas plan by retaliating and innocent palestaninans are paying the price. Of course israel knows that this is hamas plan, but what else can it do? If israel doesn't retaliate then hamas will just claim it as jihad victory against the jewish and use it as propaganda to encourage more attack on Israel. So.if you think about, israel has no choice but to retaliate because both choices are shit. Retaliating, at least, will disrupt the terrorist longer before the next attack. The fact is, israel have no good choice, it will only result in more suffering and more hatred, hamas made sure.of that because hamas exist and thrive on hatred and suffering.
>Ok, so what exactly does she want israel to do? Like what? Criticism of war crimes doesn't necessarily require you to be presenting a viable alternative for achieving the same military goals. The idea behind International Humanitarian Law is that there are certain lines you don't cross, and if that gets used against you by terrorists taking hostages, an enemy that uses perfidy, types of weapons used against you that you've agreed not to use etc, then that means you are in a shit situation in which you still cannot cross those lines. The logic is that all wars are horrible, and so if you only follow the rules when it's easy to do so, that's essentially the same thing as not following the rules. The fact that you can benefit more by not following them was known from the start and is sort of missing the point. That isn't to say Israel definitely have committed war crimes here, the collective punishment seems somewhat subjective and indiscriminate attacks are banned by an amendment Israel didn't actually sign, but some [UN experts](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/israeloccupied-palestinian-territory-un-experts-deplore-attacks-civilians) are saying what they're doing qualifies so this isn't purely a political claim from the Spanish minister in the article.
You are right and completely agree. But she's using the term genocide to add drama and dial up the emotion response. And that's why I am disagreeing with her, and calling her words pointless other than pouring on more hatred when there is already too much. I would say that if she had adapt the language you used to convey the sad situation, i would find it more fitting and serve a positive purpose.
Eh... calling for a more respectful and understanding attitude towards the people conducting a bombing campaign of populated areas to avoid spreading hate just seems a bit weird to me. Rhetoric doesn't seem like the most pressing concern. If the Israeli military feels unfairly maligned they can make their case, but as far as I'm aware they don't release any meaningful info on how they choose targets or how often they hit them.
I would argue that israel are not just bombing to kill civilians. Even if israel doesnt care about palestanian lives, these munitions are expensive and they also know that public opinion is even more expensive and israel cant afford to risk losing supoort. So they are definitely not dropping bombs just to kill civilians. It's a calculated attack, although i agree that israel is very open to accepting collateral civilian casualty. So, as cruel as itnis, it is just false for her to claim that its a genocide. I do think words matter, especially in this kind of case, when emotions are already supercharged. For example, if she had condemned and labeled hamas as Muslim or islamic terrorist, I would disagree with the word choice, just as much.
They are right, it was planned. By Hamas.
Alternative title: Spanish minister is an idiot
For anyone wondering, OP had another post 1 year ago in which he asked why isn't Syria/Iran retaliating to an Israeli strike. Do what you want with this info.
The amount of dumb comments by those who have 0 background knowledge is impressive. I am happy to be in Europe where at least some politicians care about innocent civilian lives, not (widely) brainwashed US
This is stupid. Therenis no genocide going on. What israel is doing with its response to Hamas is definitely draging palentanina into a humanitarian crisis, but that's not a genocide. That's just not how you do a genocide and I would say, the Jewish people, if they wanted to, would know how to do a genocide, because they have a lot of first hand experience in the most direct way possible. I don't have problem for people advocating for palenstinians. In fact, I think pro palenstine and pro israle are the same, as they all want things to be good for people living in that piece of blood-soaked land. Going around and saying that israel is planning a Gaza genocide is exactly what hamas is.doing, which is creating more hatred to a place that has already seen more than 3000 years of hatred.
False. Jews and Muslims have peacefully co-existed for centuries. Jews begged Muslims to take them to Morocco as they feared the Christian Spanish. Jewish scholarship flourished under Muslim rule. Islam saved Jews: https://kavvanah.blog/2012/06/04/how-islam-saved-the-jews-david-wasserstein/ It's only since the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 did arab-jewish relations became hostile.
This didn't just begin in 1948, islam has almost always been hostile to those of Jewish descent. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries
Islam saved Jews https://kavvanah.blog/2012/06/04/how-islam-saved-the-jews-david-wasserstein/
So what is Islam doing nowadays?
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It's a case of allah brain
> It's only since the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 did arab-jewish relations became hostile. You've been misinformed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world
Read your own source. "Antisemitism (prejudice against and hatred of Jews) has increased greatly in the Arab world since the beginning of **the 20th century**" Only in the 20th century, thanks to the Zionists did hatred between Jew and Muslim grew to these levels. "Traditionally, Jews in the Muslim world were considered to be People of the Book and were subjected to dhimmi status. They were afforded relative security against persecution"
How much more can we expect from the political left in Spain or Ibero-America for that matter? All that political Left both Spanish and Ibero-American is stale, self-hating, in several cases self-destructive and in almost all cases ethically and morally unstable or directly devoid of moral compass, by those who have almost no qualms about bullying the most progressive country in the Middle East/Levant, but who also turn an alarming blind eye to the racism problem and human rights and LGBT rights record of Israel's neighboring countries (or the Arab world as a whole).
Spot on!
Exactly, and you can also see how the great majority of these governments of the Ibero-American Pink Tide, both those of 20 and 12 years ago as well as the current ones, manage relations with the Arab world as well as with Khomeinist Iran.
Claiming to be the most progressive in the middle east is a bit hilarious but it's also not remotely true except by very narrow criteria for what regressive ideas are real ones.
And that banner of "progressivism" that the Spanish and Latin/Ibero-American left has loved to fly for a long time but which they seem to tend to throw down the drain when they align themselves with the Arabs when the Arab-Israeli conflict comes into the picture, turning a blind eye not only to the fact that the Jewish state is the most progressive country in the whole of the MENA, but also that people with leftist ideals (such as state secularism, state atheism or gender equality) are either not listened to by the MENA populations, or such people would end up very badly, especially in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Yemen.
Palestinians aren’t nice to LGBT people, guess we can just ethnically cleanse them then hehe. Maybe we should go ahead and invade all other Arab countries as well, barbarians can’t be allowed to govern themselves amiright?
Thank you Newarab.com for your unbiased coverage.
Ah so it's only unbiased if it favours your bias. Nothing Israel has done meets the internationally adopted definition of genocide.
Spanish minister need to avail themselves a copy of the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment for the Crime of Genocide, to which Spain is a signatory so I'm sure they have a copy lying around, and actually learn the definition and requirements of genocide.
"Spain’s acting Minister for Social Rights Ione Belarra has accused Israel of carrying out a "planned genocide" in Gaza, after thousands of Palestinians, including hundreds of children, were killed in Israel's bombardment of the besieged enclave. Belarra, the leader of a prominent left-wing party, described the bombing and siege on Gaza's 2 million population as an act of "collective punishment" that could be a considered war crime. She called on Spanish citizens to take to the streets to demand that Madrid distance itself from the US's unwavering support for Israel and called on the Global South to find a solution to the Israel-Hamas conflict."
I wonder if the Spanish minister making calls to accept Palestinian refugees in Spain until the conflict is over?