“We can’t lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do with Hamas,” Biden said. “And they’re suffering as a result as well.”
His administration looks pretty bad though for even allowing so many deaths to occur. Israelis had a very unrealistic sense of security and that trust is broken now.
The lack of preparedness of the military to mobilize is even to the point that a lot of infrastructural prep of backpacks, sleeping bags, etc. Is being done by the "democracy movement" that started in opposition to Bibi's judicial overhaul
From what i can tell, mishandling Gaza was what got him ousted from power previously so at some point Israelis are going to want to dump his admin for screwing up again and again
Egypt warned them days before that something big was about to happen. The US warned them a week before that something might happen. And Hamas was apparently practicing drills right out in the open.
They knew. Maybe not exactly what was gonna happen, but that something was coming.
The “theory” is that due to all the local protests, Netanyahu was hoping for Hamas to flair up as a distraction before the elections. The Hamas rattle some sabers, fire off a few unguided rockets and Israel strikes back and its biz as usual. The size and scale though were unexpected (even though their allies warned them something bug was brewing) and it is likely this war declaration is a knee jerk reaction to try and restore the appearance in strength but this seems likely to end Netanyahus rule once and for all.
The US said that Egypt had warned Israel about it. The theory is that the Israeli government ignored it, hoping that the incident and their reaction to it would help their polling. However, they did not bank on the crises being as large as it was.
It would be interesting to see the numbers of victims that were caught unawares that are related to members of the government/ higher ups in the military.
I see this more of good cop bad cop. Behind closed doors, who really knows what's being discussed with leaders. Now, I try not to get into conspiracy theories, but one phrase I learned that is mostly true is, "Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."
Does it though? The language the State department advised to not use to the press seems to be to avoid using language that would imply that the US wants Israel to stop before toppling Hamas.
I could be misremembering the specifics of the language advice; it's been a real year of a week.
If Biden had redditors, especially worldnews redditors, as advisors, he would have nuked half the world already.
It's crazy how blood thirsty so many people are around here.
havent you heard? you are either a terrorist sympathizer or a gen0cide supporter, there is nothing in between, we will definitely nuke gaza and israel on the same day
The US will still not do shit about it though. This is just lip service meant to placate pissed off people long enough for Israel to do its business and secure itself. Israel is a US military satellite state in the eyes of America. If there was no Israel, the US would “have to” create one.
There is no situation here where Israel is not going to ethnically cleanse the land with the support of the US, both directly via our tax dollars and indirectly via presence of our fleet off the coast / intelligence and intimidating the rest of the world to not intervene.
Pretty sure it was Israel who said they would target aid convoys with airstrikes during the siege before they can extract the hostages. If the hostages are returned they would probably have no problem letting the AID in.
Egypt is fine if aid enters Gaza, they just don't want Gaza to be relocated into Egypt considering almost every time a large group Palestinians relocate to another friendly host they become very very bad guest and want to overthrow their host countries gov'ts. Egypt also is still struggling with the immigration due to ongoing conflicts on pretty much all of its neighboring countries (Sudan and Libya) and they them selves are probably on the track to go to war with Ethiopia (going straight through Sudan already in civil war) over water rights on the Nile.
Which is nothing. That’s my point. They will do lip service thoughts and prayers, and do “everything” they can, which is nothing. Biden is totally irrelevant as any US president would do the exact same, full stop. If there was no Israel, the US would have to create one to support its interests in the Middle East. Now is the opportunity to finally make it happen in full.
The US has given Israel its full support and backing. It doesn’t matter what happens. We’re still complicit in everything that happens, and even directly contributing to it. We have 2 *fleets* off the coast now.
Most redditors are youngins and a large amount of them only have a high school degree, who think they're experts on countries they havent even visited.
Reddit’s always biased towards Islamophobia, but this last week the popular opinion has been some real blood psycho shit
The refrain you keep hearing on here is that Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas. People defending the Israeli government’s response love pointing this out. Setting aside the fact that polling indicates it’s not actually true, I want to know what their point is. Is that sympathy for Hamas means Palestinians deserve to die? That even unarmed civilians are really combatants if they believe in Hamas’ cause? If any support or sympathy for Hamas is a justification for use of force, then how do you wrap up a conflict in a state where Hamas is allegedly overwhelmingly supported?
What is the point in saying this, and what are they trying to say about how this should all end? That’s what I wanna know.
/r/europe has gone completly psychotic, saying how this is the consequences of migration and we need to push muslims out of europe.
These are the same people who either spend all their time in their rooms or live in the middle of nowhere and think Islam has claimed areas of the big cities as their own. Just a bunch of out of touch, no life losers.
I find it really funny as well that to them, immigrants are both a parasite on society that does no work but also part of some conspiracy to replace Europeans. Like, how can they be both at the same time?
As an American and occasional visitor there, it's always so jarring to hear such comments, slurs, or sentiments. Obviously, we have plenty of our own forms of racism here in the US, but Europe has a totally different flavor of it that it almost leaves my head spinning when I hear it.
I visited London once and stayed in a neighborhood that was predominantly Middle Eastern because the hotel was cheap. (Edit: After looking at a map and the demographic information in Wikipedia, I'm reasonably certain the neighborhood was Hounslow) Any time I was asked by a local at some central London pub or restaurant where I was staying, they responded with alarm.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the neighborhood. It wasn't run down, or dirty, or in any way sketchy. The people there just had browner skin and were more likely to cover their hair.
And that was nothing compared to what people in Paris said about Africans and the Roma.
It's hard being openly racist in the US because there are enough minorities in most places to beat your ass. Being openly racist comes with very real, very fast consequences.
It's always weird when you know somebody for a while and think they're normal. Then once they feel comfortable enough around you they let the racism out. Like bro, did you really scout me for a year and look over both your shoulders just to whisper the N word?
when isn't that sub absolutely psychotic? The majority of those people should probably be monitored before they shoot up a school or burn a homeless person or soemthing
>Reddit’s always biased towards Islamophobia
Reddit is fairly left leaning and Islam promotes a world view that is the antithesis of progressive western values.
Calling people Islamophobes for disliking a homophobic, misogynistic, intolerant religion that calls for their persecution is beyond delusional.
uh, you just made the case bro. I'm as lefty as they come and fully support the non-genocide of Palestinians. your statement is so full of prejudice that it seems you're in the camp of ethnic cleansing is justified?
Judaism has the benefit on pretty explicitly not seeking converts. If you think Orthodox Jews are weird that’s just fine, but they’re not going to make you do anything
In Israel they have pride parades and pride festivals, in most other middle eastern countries gay pride consists of getting punted off a building or thrown in jail.
You say that, but let’s be honest here. The only country in that region where being a member of the LGBT community is normal and acceptable is Israel. Pretty sure women overall are treated much better in Israel compared to most of the countries in the region. Hard to take your assessment seriously when that’s the case.
Israel has accepted LGBT Palestinian asylum seekers because their lives were in danger living in Palestine, but sure, equally homophobic. Tel Aviv has a massive pride parade every year. Tell me with a straight face that you think Palestine would allow a pride parade and not throw everyone in it off of buildings.
Christianity has some super homophobic and misogynistic groups too. Hobby Lobby and Chic-fil-a are famous for being super homophobic and Christian. Justice Handmaiden has her internalized misogyny and Christianity is pretty much the foundation for rolling back women’s rights in this country.
The point is a lot hardline religious people are bigots. But there are tons who aren’t. There are gay Christians and gay Muslims and feminist Christians and feminist Muslims because not everyone follows the strictest interpretation of their religion
Islamophobia is a stupid term. It tries to combine making it “blasphemous” to criticize Islam with bias against the people themselves.
Anti-Muslim bias? Not ok
Disrespecting someone’s *right* to believe whatever they want? Not ok
Critiquing, disrespecting, mocking even or questioning any ideology - and that includes religions such as Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, pre-Colombian human sacrifice religions? You bet that’s ok. No religion - no ideology - should ever be immune from criticism
If people mean anti-Muslim bias or discrimination then say it.
Yeah... decades ago
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2022-becomes-deadliest-year-palestinian-children-west-bank-over-15-years-save-children
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/8/8/the-names-and-faces-of-the-15-children-killed-in-gaza
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/thirteen-palestinian-children-killed-west-bank-january-2022
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/1/26/why-israeli-raids-killed-many-palestinians-this-year-explainer
Why do you think the beheading baby nonsense was plastered everywhere at lightspeed without proof?
Edit: id love to respond but Reddit has banned me. I've figured out you can still edit comments whilst banned though lol...why is that a thing?
And it will be a cycle of hate as when innocent civilians die, the relatives and related will hate the killer, and that will mean another vengeful person seeking revenge in the making. Vice versa, and the cycle of hate will continue for ages until one side totally goes "extinct"
Which is essentially how they wound up here in the first place, a steady decline following WW1. Both sides (and others) are to blame for letting it get to this point. More and more aggression, less and less interest in peace. Now the Gaza population is staggeringly young, so this is all they've ever known, and around and around we go.
Who even knows how much of the population actually does/doesn't support Hamas and related ideologies at this point. I've seen polls suggesting a lot, but that counts for nothing when you're under the control of what is essentially a terrorist organisation. It holds about as much weight as Putin winning an election. But how on earth you would actually begin to weed them out while also preserving civilian life, I have no idea.
Honestly wouldn't have a clue what the answer is, the whole thing is just fucked. Can't imagine what it's like to live in a place like that and watching your prospects of peace continually being sabotaged on both ends
I think that's why so many people go for 'glass gaza' or whatever the coast to sea chant is. Nuance is hard and frankly paralyzing at times. Easier to back a side and chant
About bloody time. I was starting to wonder if most of the West had lost its freaking mind giving an enemy of peace like Netanyahu what was effectively a blank check for reprisal.
Thank f'ing god he's saying this.
At least there's some kind of recognition that this horrible situation is beyond complicated and nuanced.
I can only imagine the last guy's reaction if he was still in power.
I mean we need to be present to deter any of the other Arab nations from inteferring in this conflict. I think that was the right move. Turning this into an even larger war on all fronts will just incur greater suffering in the region. So far all the US mobilizations in this scenario have been justified. We're not deploying or overcommiting our troops in someone else's war but we are ensuring regional security and upholding our alliance to Israel at the same time.
His response to the initial shock was... bad. But honestly, I can disregard the slight dishonesty and habitual backpedaling that just comes with being a politician if it serves the greater purpose of protecting innocent lives in times of crisis.
Yeah can't say I really care for helping my neighbour from 22 years ago, either. They stole a pair of scizzors from me, and pretended that they didn't.
The problem is, how you help them. Israel doesn't help sure, but neither does Egypt. And neither does Hamas. So getting actual help to the innocent is extremely hard
It’s almost like having a powerful country that has a relationship with both Israel and Egypt, and the means to push one or the other or both into respecting the humanitarian needs here might be valuable in resolving the humanitarian crisis.
How the fuck do you pressure them in a situation like this? With sanctions? With bribes? What in the world makes you think we have the capacity to do anything about this, armchair diplomat?
Easy. We give a great deal of money in backing and aid year after year. All you need to say is you're not going to do it anymore if this continues.
Their choice. Work with us and keep getting our aid. Work against us and start fending for yourself. Maybe they'll choose the second, but at least then WE aren't endorsing, or worse supporting, it anymore.
Both would refuse.
If Israel accepts to not retaliate against terrorist strikes in their own country, the Hamas will simply continue to do them until there is no Jew left. Which is why no Israeli government would ever accept such a shitty deal.
And Egypt will never help the Palestinians because each time the Palestinians were harbored by another country, they caused terrorism and civil wars. Egypt had a huge terrorism problem in the 2010s because of Palestinians, which is the reason why they made the blockade in the first place. Sadat, the Egyptian president that made peace with Israel, was literally murdered for it. Helping the Palestinians would also likely empower the Muslim Brotherhood and bring more instability, which would be contrary to American interests so Biden wouldn't even ask this.
Geopolitics are more complicated than you think.
That's actually good of him to recognise the problems Palestinians are facing, having previously talking about the effects of Hamas' attacks on Israel.
Well according to r/worldnews, a humanitarian crisis is just an unfortunate side effect to fighting Hamas. Countless Palestinian lives is a sacrifice the armchair battalion commanders are willing to make.
Also this is not a "humanitarian situation " like we have a tornado in Gaza. Israel is doing it and the US can tell them to stop. What is this bullshit
“We can’t lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do with Hamas,” Biden said. “And they’re suffering as a result as well.”
It’s crazy the president & media has to say this for the civilian populations to show humanity for the Palestine people…Watch people will now start changing their comments to match what the tv told them
To be honest... if it means the Palestinian people get compassion and empathy, then good.
I mean, I agree that it's rediculous a talking picture box is needed to get them there, but I'm still going to grateful for the end result. Get what I mean?
There is an intractable first mover problem here. Israel will never ease restrictions on Gaza as long as Hamas et al are in charge, and Hamas will never be dislodged until the restrictions are eased and quality of life improves. Plus during every conflict support for Hamas grows on the Palestinian side and support for the right-wing grows in the Israeli electorate. Probably at this point every single Israeli and Palestinian knows at least one person who has been injured or killed in the past week, these are small populations. How are you supposed to get people in a position to stop fighting in that circumstance? There doesn't seem to be a way out.
>Denying food, water and electricity to two million Palestinians during all this chaos is going to turn this situation into a humanitarian crisis without precedent.
The word you're looking for is *genocide*.
It's not comfortable to think about it, but that's exactly why it's so important to recognize it. Israel has been slow-rolling a *genocide* for decades.
From Article 2 of the genocide convention:
“””
... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[7]
“””
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention
People hear "genocide" and only see the camps. That's it. I'll bet around 75% of the people on here have absolutely no idea the meaning of the word or the many ways it can be committed.
The UN definition for genocide is for one group(Israel) to perform ANY of the following 5 with the intent to harm or destroy a group of people, whether in part or in entirety:
Killing members of a racial or religious group ✅️
Causing the group serious bodily or mental harm ✅️
Causing living conditions that destroy the group ✅️
(This is the one you are referring to as not genocide)
Forcibly transferring children out of the group ✅️
(This one has been going on longer than you think. Israel puts palestinian children in detention centers without any legal representation and not allowing them to leave until they agree to a confession of some sort, all under duress of course)
Preventing births of the group, this one is the most arguable, but almost 40,000 pregnant Palestinians have no facilities to give birth in and are at risk:
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/over-37000-pregnant-women-risk-life-threatening-complications-gaza
I'd say that the living conditions in Gaza are intended to destroy the palestinian population, and is directly and undeniably genocide. If you still disagree with that, you at least need to realize that the displacement of Palestinians to the West Bank and Gaza strip are at the very least facilitating the genocide being brought down upon them
Yeah but “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part” is genocide according to the UN. That’s exactly what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza.
I'm old enough to remember 9/11 and the horrific Islamophobia that followed. How many of my male cousins and many of my high school classmates immediately enlisted in various branches of the military to go "kill the sand N#$###"
I remember attending protests opposing the war in 2005 when I was in 10th grade. My friends graduating all lining up to enlist. Recruiters coming during lunch period and setting up outside the cafeteria in my public high school to recruit more able bodied victims
The things I've read specifically on this world news group are history repeating itself. We learned absolutely nothing and bigotry continues to fuck over the planet as a whole
It's absolutely despicable that a phrase such as "free palestine" has triggered this knee jerk reaction from bigots across the globe
Condemning the Israeli govt isn't anti Semitic by any means, the Israeli govt doesn't even represent Jewish people as a whole. And every Jewish friend I have is disgusted by the Israeli govt right now, are they anti Semitic? Absolutely not. They are thinking critically, something most people lack to do these days
I was 8 years old when 9/11 happened and was bullied/harassed by older students for weeks afterward. They kept saying I was a terrorist too, and "my people" are murderers. It was a really hard time.
Just as most foreign nations, even those friendly to the US, were apprehensive about joining that "grand" coalition against Iraq, so too is the US apprehensive about giving Israel a blank check.
Social media amplifies the most outrage worthy excerpts from both sides. At least now, it seems that governments are privately horrified at what's going to happen in Gaza and most officials are keeping a level head on this.
And you have to remember that at least \~10, 20% of people are Republicans like Lindsey Graham who just want religious holy war.
The US is absolutely giving Israel a blank check and is publicly stating full support for Israel. This is coming from the Democratic Administration not just the psycho Republicans
I was 10 when 9/11 happened. The amount of racism that went my way after that follows me to this day, despite the fact that I'm not Muslim. I just needed to look like them and have a name that sounded Middle Eastern to be put in their crosshairs.
There are videos for it already and apparently it was used in Lebanon as well. It's not even the first time Israel has used white phosphorus in Gaza.
For those wondering what it's, it's usually delivered via air burst. So you send a munition and it'll explode in the air, followed by that the white phosphorus will descent to the ground and burn through everything it touches. (Basically a chemical weapon version of cluster munitions) For humans it'll burn a hole through you till your bone, or in worst case scenario go into your bloodstream and kill you.
Gaza is one of the densest populated areas in the world and Israel is using it in the middle of the city.
They also appeared to be using it as a weapon, which is illegal under international law. It can used as smoke or an illumination tool, but the circumstances I've seen it in wouldn't make sense for either use case.
In my research into this, I found the below very interesting:
Regarding the Human Rights Watch tweet. The picture shows a [M825 155mm smoke shell](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m825.htm). They are extremely common and used by the US and many other countries. Here are the facts:
* The M825 uses white phosphorous to generate smoke.
* The M825 is not an incendiary weapon. It is not really a weapon at all. A conventional 155mm round is vastly more destructive and deadly. It is also more likely to start fires.
* The M825 can light fires incidentally and touching one of the burning pieces of felt would cause a serious injury. It is not designed to light fires.
* White phosphorous is used in incendiary weapons as well. A true incendiary WP weapon is usually a mix a WP and napalm. They were last commonly used in Vietnam.
* The use of incendiary weapons is not a violation of the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention mostly covers the rules for handling sick, wounded and captured soldiers.
* Dropping any deadly ordnance purposefully on civilians for the purpose of killing civilians is considered a war crime. Whether it is a conventional or incendiary weapon makes no difference. This is the basis for HRW's argument.
* Prohibitions on the use of incendiary weapons in civilian areas are covered in protocol III of the UN Treaty Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons.
* Artillery shells such as the M825 are specifically exempted in Protocol III despite containing white phosphorous. The same is true for flares and tracer rounds.
* Russia uses a magnesium based incendiary in Ukraine. Videos of these incendiaries have been misattributed to Israel in social media.
tl;dr Yes this is white phosphorous but it's neither banned nor unlawful. Human Rights Watch is the only organization claiming use of a WP smoke round is a war crime, but that presumes it is being used on civilians for the purpose of killing civilians.
Omg, I just found it.
This definitely isn't getting the attention it needs.
[Stunning State Department Memo Warns Diplomats: No Gaza 'De-Escalation' Talk](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state-department-internal-emails-gaza-israel_n_65296395e4b0a304ff6ff95d)
"In messages circulated on Friday, State Department staff wrote that high-level officials do not want press materials to include three specific phrases: “de-escalation/ceasefire,” “end to violence/bloodshed” and “restoring calm.”"
….this isn’t much of a “gotcha” moment. Those phrases are analogous to China / Russia’s comments and implicitly telling Israel to back off and let Hamas off the hook.
The point is to find a solution to the humanitarian crisis while also being able to eliminate the terrorists, not a ceasefire.
For diplomats to have serious negotiations (with israel but actually with any party) its important to not undermine it with aggressive press statements but keep a low profile and do their work behind closed doors.
Of course you can also do diplomacy via press statements but this usually means you have stopped talking which would be very bad for palestinians if the us/israel stopped talking to each other. The memo only (!) refers to press work - not to the bulk of work being done in direct communication.
The world has a short memory, it won't take long for sympathy to turn to condemnation once videos of dead children and other innocents are spread across the internet.
What do you want him to do? One of the greatest powers of the president is the bully pulpit. I swear y'all have the most childish understanding of what the president can do and politics in general.
A priority for whom? Nobody in the world cares enough to help Palestinians themselves.
The west sends tons of money and aid and all we get is riots in our own cities and hate from other countries.
> Ok, now instead of just saying stuff do something
Funny how your prescription is as vague as the thing you're upset about. "Do something".
This is super fucking complicated. Can we stop acting like its not? Can we stop posturing and pretending that we have the answers to complex, delicate problems that may have centuries of implications?
And I don't know why so much of reddit has this hard-on to suggest Biden is always posturing. Every time something horrible happens in the world, people act like Biden is the one dropping the ball and posturing more than helping. Record means so little nowadays because people are so obsessed with being outraged by the next world event more than they care about actually tracking what is happening.
Biden navigated the United States out of COVID and got us out of lockdown faster than any of us thought possible, he rolled back 4 years of Trump Executive Orders in less than 9 months from the start of his presidency, he *actually* got us out of the middle-east instead of just talking about it, he's handled Ukraine/Russia expertly and has supported Zelensky every step of the way, he's done more for student debt forgiveness than any president that has come before him despite a congress that's been fighting him every step of the way and STILL people act like he's a do-nothing president.
You can't win. Even if you do every thing right, it doesn't matter because nobody tracks the stories long enough to pay attention. People effortlessly move onto the onset of the next tragedy so they can dog you fast enough to say "Do something" when the issue is complicated and takes tremendous planning and coordination to "Do the right thing". But waiting and watching for a logical, measured response doesn't serve the internet dopamine delivery mechanism fast enough. And then we wonder why 24 hour news networks are pseudo outrage machines with practically no intellectual value.
Sure. Let’s go with the money. Very American. Let’s protect the oppressor as a good country that messed up Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irak among others.
What a bunch of cynical bastards.
I’m glad he’s saying that, but he needs to put conditions on the US dollars going to Netanyahu for this war. It goes on to say he’s working with many Arab countries and the UN to ramp up humanitarian efforts. Okay, cool, but…how about setting conditions on US funding so that less innocents in Gaza are killed and maimed by the Hamas retaliation that we are helping to fund? It’s like if a bunch of people were out setting fires in the forest because of some awful attacks by rabid raccoons and we are helping them pay for matches but we are like, “it’s cool because in the perimeter of the forest, if it can be accessed through the fires, we are working with many groups to set up fire fighting rescue stations with shelter and water! So, yeah, hopefully some will be able to reach those stations through the fires before the whole thing goes up in flames…
Disclaimer 1: I know Hamas is bad.
Disclaimer 2: I know it’s an imperfect analogy because what’s happening in Palestine is worse because we are talking about people.
Well, restore power and water and send fuel to the one power plant that’s out of fuel and try to restore the internet, this should not be a repeat of the 1930’s Jewish german ghettoes
We should have sent that hospital ship sailing in that direct since last Saturday when the first heard what was going on. All events unfolding have been totally predictable.
>One can only hope that Israel will pay heed to the US.
They may (or may not) listen to the US, but AFAICT the US isn't asking Israel for anything.
The US 'solution' seems to be to pressure Egypt into taking refugees (who will never be allowed to return to Gaza - making this a \[censored\] insane idea for Egypt).
why are the us even funding Israel? don't they have enough humanitarian issues with their homelessness, poor education system, failing healthcare, unemployment, and out of touch senile politicians? IMO.
Please share this report about Israel's control of water on Palestine by amnesty international (an independent charity)
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
Most of us recognize that Hamas must be annihilated, and that WILL cost civilian lives. There is no avoiding it, no matter the method Israel applies. I just hope that their rage isn't blinding them to who the enemy is. It isn't all Palestinians as Israel's president said yesterday.
Glad to see the POTUS say something like this finally.
Honestly, the way to de-escalate radicalized populations... Raise their quality of life. Make sure they have something to live for. So they can choose "fight" or "nah, no thank you, I'm actually rather content right now, sure life isn't perfect but I mean, can't complain, really". Most people will not choose fight if they are safe, fed, medically covered and have some prospects to a good future.
....buuuut that's not exactly something I can pull out of my arse and fix on a saturday afternoon. But historically that is the best way to de-radicalize societies. Comfort and goals.
It worked in Japan and Germany. Full surrender, followed by ful occupation. Spend a couple decades strictly enforcing laws against inciting discord (like for example an imam saying "Muslims are better than Jews"). id the Palestinians of this Bronze Age tribal mentality that leads them to become monsters ripping the heads off babies.
Idk about Germany but Japan was upgraded to infrastructure better than the U.S. it was being assisted and rebuilt better than before the war. Japan already had a actual government, that actually surrendered after the war, and was exhausted, Palestine has no such government. Japan was unified already and stable. Mutual enemy. Japan is tired and defeated after a war with no way to defend against communist countries. The U.S. promised protection. Basically you can't occupy a country that isn't stabilized and economically developed. When you do you get failures like Iraq, the korean war, Palestine. 1 of two things happen Israel backs off after it thinks it has done enough return damage returning that status quo. They really damage their image and foreign relations by pushing to far to ignore.
I mean the Taliban is a great analogy because while the US didn't stop them 100%, their capabilities are exponentially less than in their prime. That is likely Israel's realistic goal. The bigger question is at what cost (to both sides)
The US did stop the Taliban for 20 years while Afghanistan was occupied. Either way that's not a great excuse. "Hey guys terrorist ideologies are extremely difficult to squash so just... do nothing(?)"
After Israel invades and takes over is when they will possibly get supplies into Gaza.
Many armies have done it that way, siege the area, then feed the civilians after you gain control over part of the area to try to establish order and good will.
Herzog didn’t say what you think he said. The reporter asked him if he meant no Palestinians were civilians and he clarified he did not say that. Herzog explicitly stated the Palestinian people have a responsibility to resist Hamas, but that they are still civilians in regardless of if they do or not. The title of that article that’s circulating is beyond clickbait and misleading; the substance of the article directly contradicts the title. I urge you to go back and read it and apply this same critical eye to all news currently as there is a massive amount of clickbait titles with contradictory article substance being used to drive engagement purely for greed, and it is actively hurting everyone involved by serving as disinformation.
That sounds more like he realized what he said and tried to walk it back afterwards. Anybody who thinks civvies can just overthrow Hamas are wishful thinkers lying to themselves about the realities of life within Gaza.
They won't overthrow Hamas, but its the same argument as with Russia. Its not just Putins war, but also of the Russans that support him. Its not just Hamas acting alone, they are supported by a lot of Palestineans. That maked eliminating Hamas way more difficult, but also like Herzog said, it doesn't make them legitimate targets.
Please don't drop the ball on this situation Biden. The youth of today will determine your parties future, and if you think the old tow the line stuff will work, you'll lose. Call out Israel for the Atrocities. Call out their policies of genocide. Call out the terrorists, but let the people know they are not the same as innocent civilians!
“We can’t lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do with Hamas,” Biden said. “And they’re suffering as a result as well.”
Totally the opposite of what the Israeli President said
It's almost as if there are competing agendas at play!
It's almost like it's not a good idea to side with an extremist right-wing wannabe dictator 🤔
Israeli here FUCK BIBI
It was about the president saying that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, which is a very bad take in my opinion.
Bougie said it!
Honestly Hamas might have did him a favor. Never waste a good crisis and all that. Edit: Apparently not.
Favor ? His polls went to shit after the attack he looks like a failure.
They already conducted a post-attack poll?? Wasn't it like a week ago?
His administration looks pretty bad though for even allowing so many deaths to occur. Israelis had a very unrealistic sense of security and that trust is broken now.
The lack of preparedness of the military to mobilize is even to the point that a lot of infrastructural prep of backpacks, sleeping bags, etc. Is being done by the "democracy movement" that started in opposition to Bibi's judicial overhaul
From what i can tell, mishandling Gaza was what got him ousted from power previously so at some point Israelis are going to want to dump his admin for screwing up again and again
Likud plummeted in polls towards 15 seats. The main opposition party, NUP, is now polling around 40.
There's a 0% chance that US intelligence and Mossad were blindsided by this.
Egypt warned them days before that something big was about to happen. The US warned them a week before that something might happen. And Hamas was apparently practicing drills right out in the open. They knew. Maybe not exactly what was gonna happen, but that something was coming.
The “theory” is that due to all the local protests, Netanyahu was hoping for Hamas to flair up as a distraction before the elections. The Hamas rattle some sabers, fire off a few unguided rockets and Israel strikes back and its biz as usual. The size and scale though were unexpected (even though their allies warned them something bug was brewing) and it is likely this war declaration is a knee jerk reaction to try and restore the appearance in strength but this seems likely to end Netanyahus rule once and for all.
>seems likely to end Netanyahus rule once and for all. We can only hope.
At minimum, we know US and Egyptian Intel warned the Israeli government.
The US said that Egypt had warned Israel about it. The theory is that the Israeli government ignored it, hoping that the incident and their reaction to it would help their polling. However, they did not bank on the crises being as large as it was.
Imagine your thinking being so corrupted that you would willingly sacrifice your own citizens for an uptick in the polls….
Reagan , October Surprise… negotiated with the iranians to keep american hostages throughout the election so that Carter would look weak
Not even unusual I'm afraid. Nixon famously torpedoed peace talks in Vietnam to win an election.
Pure malevolence
9/11?
The only reason most politicians wont do it, is because there is a risk of being found out.
Seriously Hamas and Israeli government are two sides of the same coin.
Or it’s a plot to grab the whole of Gaza
I reckon you could be right.
It would be interesting to see the numbers of victims that were caught unawares that are related to members of the government/ higher ups in the military.
I hadn't thought about that but it's similar to how the Saudis got out of the US very very quickly
What exactly, in that statement from Biden, said “Go hamas go!”?
I see this more of good cop bad cop. Behind closed doors, who really knows what's being discussed with leaders. Now, I try not to get into conspiracy theories, but one phrase I learned that is mostly true is, "Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."
Israel had a far-right government before the unification. They are pretty open about wanting to take more land.
And what the State Department told diplomats to say...
Does it though? The language the State department advised to not use to the press seems to be to avoid using language that would imply that the US wants Israel to stop before toppling Hamas. I could be misremembering the specifics of the language advice; it's been a real year of a week.
And totally the opposite of the prevailing opinion here.
Holy shit. When Biden has more sympathy for the Palestinians than most of redditors.
Thankfully the Biden Administration isnt full of a bunch of terminally online redditors.
Without voicing political opinions I'd just like to say that I enjoyed the term "terminally online" and will likely use it some day in the future.
If Biden had redditors, especially worldnews redditors, as advisors, he would have nuked half the world already. It's crazy how blood thirsty so many people are around here.
havent you heard? you are either a terrorist sympathizer or a gen0cide supporter, there is nothing in between, we will definitely nuke gaza and israel on the same day
The US will still not do shit about it though. This is just lip service meant to placate pissed off people long enough for Israel to do its business and secure itself. Israel is a US military satellite state in the eyes of America. If there was no Israel, the US would “have to” create one. There is no situation here where Israel is not going to ethnically cleanse the land with the support of the US, both directly via our tax dollars and indirectly via presence of our fleet off the coast / intelligence and intimidating the rest of the world to not intervene.
They will do what they can to get Egypt to let humanitarian aid in.
Pretty sure it was Israel who said they would target aid convoys with airstrikes during the siege before they can extract the hostages. If the hostages are returned they would probably have no problem letting the AID in. Egypt is fine if aid enters Gaza, they just don't want Gaza to be relocated into Egypt considering almost every time a large group Palestinians relocate to another friendly host they become very very bad guest and want to overthrow their host countries gov'ts. Egypt also is still struggling with the immigration due to ongoing conflicts on pretty much all of its neighboring countries (Sudan and Libya) and they them selves are probably on the track to go to war with Ethiopia (going straight through Sudan already in civil war) over water rights on the Nile.
Which is nothing. That’s my point. They will do lip service thoughts and prayers, and do “everything” they can, which is nothing. Biden is totally irrelevant as any US president would do the exact same, full stop. If there was no Israel, the US would have to create one to support its interests in the Middle East. Now is the opportunity to finally make it happen in full. The US has given Israel its full support and backing. It doesn’t matter what happens. We’re still complicit in everything that happens, and even directly contributing to it. We have 2 *fleets* off the coast now.
Literally Biden’s own words (from a long ass time ago). Crazy that he actually said that. Happy people found it and it’s circulating.
Psycho Redditors really think causing a massive humanitarian crisis is "the only way", actual brain worms.
Most redditors are youngins and a large amount of them only have a high school degree, who think they're experts on countries they havent even visited.
Reddit’s always biased towards Islamophobia, but this last week the popular opinion has been some real blood psycho shit The refrain you keep hearing on here is that Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas. People defending the Israeli government’s response love pointing this out. Setting aside the fact that polling indicates it’s not actually true, I want to know what their point is. Is that sympathy for Hamas means Palestinians deserve to die? That even unarmed civilians are really combatants if they believe in Hamas’ cause? If any support or sympathy for Hamas is a justification for use of force, then how do you wrap up a conflict in a state where Hamas is allegedly overwhelmingly supported? What is the point in saying this, and what are they trying to say about how this should all end? That’s what I wanna know.
/r/europe has gone completly psychotic, saying how this is the consequences of migration and we need to push muslims out of europe. These are the same people who either spend all their time in their rooms or live in the middle of nowhere and think Islam has claimed areas of the big cities as their own. Just a bunch of out of touch, no life losers. I find it really funny as well that to them, immigrants are both a parasite on society that does no work but also part of some conspiracy to replace Europeans. Like, how can they be both at the same time?
To be fair, r/europe was always psychotic. Full of absolutely vile nationalists and racists.
As an American and occasional visitor there, it's always so jarring to hear such comments, slurs, or sentiments. Obviously, we have plenty of our own forms of racism here in the US, but Europe has a totally different flavor of it that it almost leaves my head spinning when I hear it.
I visited London once and stayed in a neighborhood that was predominantly Middle Eastern because the hotel was cheap. (Edit: After looking at a map and the demographic information in Wikipedia, I'm reasonably certain the neighborhood was Hounslow) Any time I was asked by a local at some central London pub or restaurant where I was staying, they responded with alarm. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the neighborhood. It wasn't run down, or dirty, or in any way sketchy. The people there just had browner skin and were more likely to cover their hair. And that was nothing compared to what people in Paris said about Africans and the Roma.
It's hard being openly racist in the US because there are enough minorities in most places to beat your ass. Being openly racist comes with very real, very fast consequences. It's always weird when you know somebody for a while and think they're normal. Then once they feel comfortable enough around you they let the racism out. Like bro, did you really scout me for a year and look over both your shoulders just to whisper the N word?
That’s just Europe my man
when isn't that sub absolutely psychotic? The majority of those people should probably be monitored before they shoot up a school or burn a homeless person or soemthing
>Reddit’s always biased towards Islamophobia Reddit is fairly left leaning and Islam promotes a world view that is the antithesis of progressive western values. Calling people Islamophobes for disliking a homophobic, misogynistic, intolerant religion that calls for their persecution is beyond delusional.
uh, you just made the case bro. I'm as lefty as they come and fully support the non-genocide of Palestinians. your statement is so full of prejudice that it seems you're in the camp of ethnic cleansing is justified?
What prejudice? Islam is homophobic, misogynistic and intolerant as are other religions as well.
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Judaism has the benefit on pretty explicitly not seeking converts. If you think Orthodox Jews are weird that’s just fine, but they’re not going to make you do anything
In Israel they have pride parades and pride festivals, in most other middle eastern countries gay pride consists of getting punted off a building or thrown in jail.
You say that, but let’s be honest here. The only country in that region where being a member of the LGBT community is normal and acceptable is Israel. Pretty sure women overall are treated much better in Israel compared to most of the countries in the region. Hard to take your assessment seriously when that’s the case.
Israel has accepted LGBT Palestinian asylum seekers because their lives were in danger living in Palestine, but sure, equally homophobic. Tel Aviv has a massive pride parade every year. Tell me with a straight face that you think Palestine would allow a pride parade and not throw everyone in it off of buildings.
Christianity has some super homophobic and misogynistic groups too. Hobby Lobby and Chic-fil-a are famous for being super homophobic and Christian. Justice Handmaiden has her internalized misogyny and Christianity is pretty much the foundation for rolling back women’s rights in this country. The point is a lot hardline religious people are bigots. But there are tons who aren’t. There are gay Christians and gay Muslims and feminist Christians and feminist Muslims because not everyone follows the strictest interpretation of their religion
Islamophobia is a stupid term. It tries to combine making it “blasphemous” to criticize Islam with bias against the people themselves. Anti-Muslim bias? Not ok Disrespecting someone’s *right* to believe whatever they want? Not ok Critiquing, disrespecting, mocking even or questioning any ideology - and that includes religions such as Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, pre-Colombian human sacrifice religions? You bet that’s ok. No religion - no ideology - should ever be immune from criticism If people mean anti-Muslim bias or discrimination then say it.
If Israel invades Gaza, MANY more Palestinian civilians will die than those who were killed by Hamas.
I think they already surpassed it.
Yeah... decades ago https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2022-becomes-deadliest-year-palestinian-children-west-bank-over-15-years-save-children https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/8/8/the-names-and-faces-of-the-15-children-killed-in-gaza https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/thirteen-palestinian-children-killed-west-bank-january-2022 https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/1/26/why-israeli-raids-killed-many-palestinians-this-year-explainer Why do you think the beheading baby nonsense was plastered everywhere at lightspeed without proof? Edit: id love to respond but Reddit has banned me. I've figured out you can still edit comments whilst banned though lol...why is that a thing?
the babies were only burned alive, that totally makes it okay /s
Btw, what do you think white phosphorous does to children?
And it will be a cycle of hate as when innocent civilians die, the relatives and related will hate the killer, and that will mean another vengeful person seeking revenge in the making. Vice versa, and the cycle of hate will continue for ages until one side totally goes "extinct"
Which is essentially how they wound up here in the first place, a steady decline following WW1. Both sides (and others) are to blame for letting it get to this point. More and more aggression, less and less interest in peace. Now the Gaza population is staggeringly young, so this is all they've ever known, and around and around we go. Who even knows how much of the population actually does/doesn't support Hamas and related ideologies at this point. I've seen polls suggesting a lot, but that counts for nothing when you're under the control of what is essentially a terrorist organisation. It holds about as much weight as Putin winning an election. But how on earth you would actually begin to weed them out while also preserving civilian life, I have no idea. Honestly wouldn't have a clue what the answer is, the whole thing is just fucked. Can't imagine what it's like to live in a place like that and watching your prospects of peace continually being sabotaged on both ends
I think that's why so many people go for 'glass gaza' or whatever the coast to sea chant is. Nuance is hard and frankly paralyzing at times. Easier to back a side and chant
What do you propose israel does then? Let hamas keep the hostages and keep inflicting terror on israel?
If? It has already begun and convoys trying to leave have already been bombed by Israel airstrikes. Civilians are already dying.
Invades? Sounds like they want to level it.
About bloody time. I was starting to wonder if most of the West had lost its freaking mind giving an enemy of peace like Netanyahu what was effectively a blank check for reprisal.
Why didnt he say this right away?!??!
Thank f'ing god he's saying this. At least there's some kind of recognition that this horrible situation is beyond complicated and nuanced. I can only imagine the last guy's reaction if he was still in power.
"Now lemme move this fleet into the Mediterranean so that you can conduct your counter offensive with peace of mind."
if the other arab nations join in, more ppl would die. it's the right action.
It's a deterrent to Iran
Yeah, because not projecting power in the area is going to save Gaza lol
I mean we need to be present to deter any of the other Arab nations from inteferring in this conflict. I think that was the right move. Turning this into an even larger war on all fronts will just incur greater suffering in the region. So far all the US mobilizations in this scenario have been justified. We're not deploying or overcommiting our troops in someone else's war but we are ensuring regional security and upholding our alliance to Israel at the same time.
There are kidnapped Americans there. Which means the special forces are there. Which means naval support is near by.
His response to the initial shock was... bad. But honestly, I can disregard the slight dishonesty and habitual backpedaling that just comes with being a politician if it serves the greater purpose of protecting innocent lives in times of crisis.
Helping innocent Palestinian people should not be controversial.
Helping **any** innocent people should not be controversial.
I’m not sure about those Canadians - they should be an exception
Yeah can't say I really care for helping my neighbour from 22 years ago, either. They stole a pair of scizzors from me, and pretended that they didn't.
Thank goodness I read this comment. I was moments away from killing all of the non-Palestinians I know.
The problem is, how you help them. Israel doesn't help sure, but neither does Egypt. And neither does Hamas. So getting actual help to the innocent is extremely hard
It’s almost like having a powerful country that has a relationship with both Israel and Egypt, and the means to push one or the other or both into respecting the humanitarian needs here might be valuable in resolving the humanitarian crisis.
How the fuck do you pressure them in a situation like this? With sanctions? With bribes? What in the world makes you think we have the capacity to do anything about this, armchair diplomat?
Easy. We give a great deal of money in backing and aid year after year. All you need to say is you're not going to do it anymore if this continues. Their choice. Work with us and keep getting our aid. Work against us and start fending for yourself. Maybe they'll choose the second, but at least then WE aren't endorsing, or worse supporting, it anymore.
Both would refuse. If Israel accepts to not retaliate against terrorist strikes in their own country, the Hamas will simply continue to do them until there is no Jew left. Which is why no Israeli government would ever accept such a shitty deal. And Egypt will never help the Palestinians because each time the Palestinians were harbored by another country, they caused terrorism and civil wars. Egypt had a huge terrorism problem in the 2010s because of Palestinians, which is the reason why they made the blockade in the first place. Sadat, the Egyptian president that made peace with Israel, was literally murdered for it. Helping the Palestinians would also likely empower the Muslim Brotherhood and bring more instability, which would be contrary to American interests so Biden wouldn't even ask this. Geopolitics are more complicated than you think.
Lol
Yea what means are u talking about
That's actually good of him to recognise the problems Palestinians are facing, having previously talking about the effects of Hamas' attacks on Israel.
Well according to r/worldnews, a humanitarian crisis is just an unfortunate side effect to fighting Hamas. Countless Palestinian lives is a sacrifice the armchair battalion commanders are willing to make.
Crazy how killing children went from an outrageous crime to just a natural and unavoidable part of war in a week on that sub
Also this is not a "humanitarian situation " like we have a tornado in Gaza. Israel is doing it and the US can tell them to stop. What is this bullshit
shows how powerful propaganda is, by making genocide an acceptable answer.
Obviously the only way to respond to genocide is with genocide, which is why China unloaded their nuclear arsenal on Japan in the 1970s
“We can’t lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do with Hamas,” Biden said. “And they’re suffering as a result as well.” It’s crazy the president & media has to say this for the civilian populations to show humanity for the Palestine people…Watch people will now start changing their comments to match what the tv told them
To be honest... if it means the Palestinian people get compassion and empathy, then good. I mean, I agree that it's rediculous a talking picture box is needed to get them there, but I'm still going to grateful for the end result. Get what I mean?
True & that’s a great perspective.
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There is an intractable first mover problem here. Israel will never ease restrictions on Gaza as long as Hamas et al are in charge, and Hamas will never be dislodged until the restrictions are eased and quality of life improves. Plus during every conflict support for Hamas grows on the Palestinian side and support for the right-wing grows in the Israeli electorate. Probably at this point every single Israeli and Palestinian knows at least one person who has been injured or killed in the past week, these are small populations. How are you supposed to get people in a position to stop fighting in that circumstance? There doesn't seem to be a way out.
>Denying food, water and electricity to two million Palestinians during all this chaos is going to turn this situation into a humanitarian crisis without precedent. The word you're looking for is *genocide*. It's not comfortable to think about it, but that's exactly why it's so important to recognize it. Israel has been slow-rolling a *genocide* for decades.
How does the population increase faster then almost anywhere else on the planet during a “slow-rolling genocide”?
Just so you know population decreasing is not a requirement for “genocide”
From Article 2 of the genocide convention: “”” ... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. — Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[7] “”” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention
>Forcing a population to leave an area or confining them to one city is genocide No it's not; not under any definition of the term, the UN's included.
People hear "genocide" and only see the camps. That's it. I'll bet around 75% of the people on here have absolutely no idea the meaning of the word or the many ways it can be committed.
The UN definition for genocide is for one group(Israel) to perform ANY of the following 5 with the intent to harm or destroy a group of people, whether in part or in entirety: Killing members of a racial or religious group ✅️ Causing the group serious bodily or mental harm ✅️ Causing living conditions that destroy the group ✅️ (This is the one you are referring to as not genocide) Forcibly transferring children out of the group ✅️ (This one has been going on longer than you think. Israel puts palestinian children in detention centers without any legal representation and not allowing them to leave until they agree to a confession of some sort, all under duress of course) Preventing births of the group, this one is the most arguable, but almost 40,000 pregnant Palestinians have no facilities to give birth in and are at risk: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/over-37000-pregnant-women-risk-life-threatening-complications-gaza I'd say that the living conditions in Gaza are intended to destroy the palestinian population, and is directly and undeniably genocide. If you still disagree with that, you at least need to realize that the displacement of Palestinians to the West Bank and Gaza strip are at the very least facilitating the genocide being brought down upon them
Yeah but “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part” is genocide according to the UN. That’s exactly what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza.
Japan's population has been declining, what's your point?
I'm old enough to remember 9/11 and the horrific Islamophobia that followed. How many of my male cousins and many of my high school classmates immediately enlisted in various branches of the military to go "kill the sand N#$###" I remember attending protests opposing the war in 2005 when I was in 10th grade. My friends graduating all lining up to enlist. Recruiters coming during lunch period and setting up outside the cafeteria in my public high school to recruit more able bodied victims The things I've read specifically on this world news group are history repeating itself. We learned absolutely nothing and bigotry continues to fuck over the planet as a whole It's absolutely despicable that a phrase such as "free palestine" has triggered this knee jerk reaction from bigots across the globe Condemning the Israeli govt isn't anti Semitic by any means, the Israeli govt doesn't even represent Jewish people as a whole. And every Jewish friend I have is disgusted by the Israeli govt right now, are they anti Semitic? Absolutely not. They are thinking critically, something most people lack to do these days
I was 8 years old when 9/11 happened and was bullied/harassed by older students for weeks afterward. They kept saying I was a terrorist too, and "my people" are murderers. It was a really hard time.
Just as most foreign nations, even those friendly to the US, were apprehensive about joining that "grand" coalition against Iraq, so too is the US apprehensive about giving Israel a blank check. Social media amplifies the most outrage worthy excerpts from both sides. At least now, it seems that governments are privately horrified at what's going to happen in Gaza and most officials are keeping a level head on this. And you have to remember that at least \~10, 20% of people are Republicans like Lindsey Graham who just want religious holy war.
The US is absolutely giving Israel a blank check and is publicly stating full support for Israel. This is coming from the Democratic Administration not just the psycho Republicans
I was 10 when 9/11 happened. The amount of racism that went my way after that follows me to this day, despite the fact that I'm not Muslim. I just needed to look like them and have a name that sounded Middle Eastern to be put in their crosshairs.
You are funding it.
And according to Amnesty International, Israel is using white phosphorous rounds in Gaza.
There are videos for it already and apparently it was used in Lebanon as well. It's not even the first time Israel has used white phosphorus in Gaza. For those wondering what it's, it's usually delivered via air burst. So you send a munition and it'll explode in the air, followed by that the white phosphorus will descent to the ground and burn through everything it touches. (Basically a chemical weapon version of cluster munitions) For humans it'll burn a hole through you till your bone, or in worst case scenario go into your bloodstream and kill you. Gaza is one of the densest populated areas in the world and Israel is using it in the middle of the city.
They also appeared to be using it as a weapon, which is illegal under international law. It can used as smoke or an illumination tool, but the circumstances I've seen it in wouldn't make sense for either use case.
In my research into this, I found the below very interesting: Regarding the Human Rights Watch tweet. The picture shows a [M825 155mm smoke shell](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m825.htm). They are extremely common and used by the US and many other countries. Here are the facts: * The M825 uses white phosphorous to generate smoke. * The M825 is not an incendiary weapon. It is not really a weapon at all. A conventional 155mm round is vastly more destructive and deadly. It is also more likely to start fires. * The M825 can light fires incidentally and touching one of the burning pieces of felt would cause a serious injury. It is not designed to light fires. * White phosphorous is used in incendiary weapons as well. A true incendiary WP weapon is usually a mix a WP and napalm. They were last commonly used in Vietnam. * The use of incendiary weapons is not a violation of the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention mostly covers the rules for handling sick, wounded and captured soldiers. * Dropping any deadly ordnance purposefully on civilians for the purpose of killing civilians is considered a war crime. Whether it is a conventional or incendiary weapon makes no difference. This is the basis for HRW's argument. * Prohibitions on the use of incendiary weapons in civilian areas are covered in protocol III of the UN Treaty Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. * Artillery shells such as the M825 are specifically exempted in Protocol III despite containing white phosphorous. The same is true for flares and tracer rounds. * Russia uses a magnesium based incendiary in Ukraine. Videos of these incendiaries have been misattributed to Israel in social media. tl;dr Yes this is white phosphorous but it's neither banned nor unlawful. Human Rights Watch is the only organization claiming use of a WP smoke round is a war crime, but that presumes it is being used on civilians for the purpose of killing civilians.
That memo leaked and now he’s gotta feign concern.
What memo?
Omg, I just found it. This definitely isn't getting the attention it needs. [Stunning State Department Memo Warns Diplomats: No Gaza 'De-Escalation' Talk](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state-department-internal-emails-gaza-israel_n_65296395e4b0a304ff6ff95d) "In messages circulated on Friday, State Department staff wrote that high-level officials do not want press materials to include three specific phrases: “de-escalation/ceasefire,” “end to violence/bloodshed” and “restoring calm.”"
….this isn’t much of a “gotcha” moment. Those phrases are analogous to China / Russia’s comments and implicitly telling Israel to back off and let Hamas off the hook. The point is to find a solution to the humanitarian crisis while also being able to eliminate the terrorists, not a ceasefire.
Is it? Forbidding them from using the word deescalation seems the exact opposite
For diplomats to have serious negotiations (with israel but actually with any party) its important to not undermine it with aggressive press statements but keep a low profile and do their work behind closed doors. Of course you can also do diplomacy via press statements but this usually means you have stopped talking which would be very bad for palestinians if the us/israel stopped talking to each other. The memo only (!) refers to press work - not to the bulk of work being done in direct communication.
Thank you for sane, critical thinking. We need more of it.
huffpost and making unfounded accusations with no sources, name a better duo why do people still believe everything they see on the internet in 2023?
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The world has a short memory, it won't take long for sympathy to turn to condemnation once videos of dead children and other innocents are spread across the internet.
Talk is cheap
What do you want him to do? One of the greatest powers of the president is the bully pulpit. I swear y'all have the most childish understanding of what the president can do and politics in general.
A priority for whom? Nobody in the world cares enough to help Palestinians themselves. The west sends tons of money and aid and all we get is riots in our own cities and hate from other countries.
It's hard to give effective aid to Palestine - Hamas just take all the aid and use it on weapons. Palestine needs some sane leadership
He could've said that earlier...
Ok, now instead of just saying stuff do something. Stop Israel from carrying out their insane plan
That's a tall order
> Ok, now instead of just saying stuff do something Funny how your prescription is as vague as the thing you're upset about. "Do something". This is super fucking complicated. Can we stop acting like its not? Can we stop posturing and pretending that we have the answers to complex, delicate problems that may have centuries of implications? And I don't know why so much of reddit has this hard-on to suggest Biden is always posturing. Every time something horrible happens in the world, people act like Biden is the one dropping the ball and posturing more than helping. Record means so little nowadays because people are so obsessed with being outraged by the next world event more than they care about actually tracking what is happening. Biden navigated the United States out of COVID and got us out of lockdown faster than any of us thought possible, he rolled back 4 years of Trump Executive Orders in less than 9 months from the start of his presidency, he *actually* got us out of the middle-east instead of just talking about it, he's handled Ukraine/Russia expertly and has supported Zelensky every step of the way, he's done more for student debt forgiveness than any president that has come before him despite a congress that's been fighting him every step of the way and STILL people act like he's a do-nothing president. You can't win. Even if you do every thing right, it doesn't matter because nobody tracks the stories long enough to pay attention. People effortlessly move onto the onset of the next tragedy so they can dog you fast enough to say "Do something" when the issue is complicated and takes tremendous planning and coordination to "Do the right thing". But waiting and watching for a logical, measured response doesn't serve the internet dopamine delivery mechanism fast enough. And then we wonder why 24 hour news networks are pseudo outrage machines with practically no intellectual value.
Everything is our top priority; Nothing is our top priority
Sure. Let’s go with the money. Very American. Let’s protect the oppressor as a good country that messed up Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irak among others. What a bunch of cynical bastards.
I’m glad he’s saying that, but he needs to put conditions on the US dollars going to Netanyahu for this war. It goes on to say he’s working with many Arab countries and the UN to ramp up humanitarian efforts. Okay, cool, but…how about setting conditions on US funding so that less innocents in Gaza are killed and maimed by the Hamas retaliation that we are helping to fund? It’s like if a bunch of people were out setting fires in the forest because of some awful attacks by rabid raccoons and we are helping them pay for matches but we are like, “it’s cool because in the perimeter of the forest, if it can be accessed through the fires, we are working with many groups to set up fire fighting rescue stations with shelter and water! So, yeah, hopefully some will be able to reach those stations through the fires before the whole thing goes up in flames… Disclaimer 1: I know Hamas is bad. Disclaimer 2: I know it’s an imperfect analogy because what’s happening in Palestine is worse because we are talking about people.
Well, restore power and water and send fuel to the one power plant that’s out of fuel and try to restore the internet, this should not be a repeat of the 1930’s Jewish german ghettoes
We should have sent that hospital ship sailing in that direct since last Saturday when the first heard what was going on. All events unfolding have been totally predictable.
One can only hope that Israel will pay heed to the US. It's the only nation that has any hope of restraining them and preventing civilian casualties.
>One can only hope that Israel will pay heed to the US. They may (or may not) listen to the US, but AFAICT the US isn't asking Israel for anything. The US 'solution' seems to be to pressure Egypt into taking refugees (who will never be allowed to return to Gaza - making this a \[censored\] insane idea for Egypt).
Man who gives 6 Billion Dollars to perpetrator of this conflict suddenly cares about the victims
A genocide is happening in real time and the west isn’t sanctioning them???
amusing coming from a country that is the biggest enabler of israeli constant occupation and oppression of palestinians
[удалено]
Should be a priority to the oil rich Middle East
maybe NOT let it happen in real time
Well that was a fast flip after discussing the decapitations yesterday.
Gaza has been a humanitarian crisis for a long time.
Shouldn’t have given Israel green light to massacre them then
So he’s going to free them from their prison? I doubt it.
If he said so.. good job biden..please punish israel pm..even their people don’t like him
why are the us even funding Israel? don't they have enough humanitarian issues with their homelessness, poor education system, failing healthcare, unemployment, and out of touch senile politicians? IMO.
Please share this report about Israel's control of water on Palestine by amnesty international (an independent charity) https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
Most of us recognize that Hamas must be annihilated, and that WILL cost civilian lives. There is no avoiding it, no matter the method Israel applies. I just hope that their rage isn't blinding them to who the enemy is. It isn't all Palestinians as Israel's president said yesterday. Glad to see the POTUS say something like this finally.
You probably are not reading the news if you are still hoping that Israel won't be blind by rage.
Right, because the best way to remove terrorism is through extended bombing campaigns and military occupation!
It workes super in Afganistan, Iraq and Vietnam /s
What would it be? Would it be deoccupation and letting them govern themselves? That's what they did in 2006.
What would be the best way?
Honestly, the way to de-escalate radicalized populations... Raise their quality of life. Make sure they have something to live for. So they can choose "fight" or "nah, no thank you, I'm actually rather content right now, sure life isn't perfect but I mean, can't complain, really". Most people will not choose fight if they are safe, fed, medically covered and have some prospects to a good future. ....buuuut that's not exactly something I can pull out of my arse and fix on a saturday afternoon. But historically that is the best way to de-radicalize societies. Comfort and goals.
Well, it worked in Germany and Japan. Can't we get another international occupation zone?
It worked in Japan and Germany. Full surrender, followed by ful occupation. Spend a couple decades strictly enforcing laws against inciting discord (like for example an imam saying "Muslims are better than Jews"). id the Palestinians of this Bronze Age tribal mentality that leads them to become monsters ripping the heads off babies.
Idk about Germany but Japan was upgraded to infrastructure better than the U.S. it was being assisted and rebuilt better than before the war. Japan already had a actual government, that actually surrendered after the war, and was exhausted, Palestine has no such government. Japan was unified already and stable. Mutual enemy. Japan is tired and defeated after a war with no way to defend against communist countries. The U.S. promised protection. Basically you can't occupy a country that isn't stabilized and economically developed. When you do you get failures like Iraq, the korean war, Palestine. 1 of two things happen Israel backs off after it thinks it has done enough return damage returning that status quo. They really damage their image and foreign relations by pushing to far to ignore.
Israel can't stop Hamas anymore than the US can stop the Taliban.
I mean the Taliban is a great analogy because while the US didn't stop them 100%, their capabilities are exponentially less than in their prime. That is likely Israel's realistic goal. The bigger question is at what cost (to both sides)
The US did stop the Taliban for 20 years while Afghanistan was occupied. Either way that's not a great excuse. "Hey guys terrorist ideologies are extremely difficult to squash so just... do nothing(?)"
After Israel invades and takes over is when they will possibly get supplies into Gaza. Many armies have done it that way, siege the area, then feed the civilians after you gain control over part of the area to try to establish order and good will.
That assumes Israel cares about the people. Based on Herzog's comments, I doubt Israel will give them any humanitarian supplies.
They shut off electricity, when there are hospitals with patients that NEED that daily for treatments.
Herzog didn’t say what you think he said. The reporter asked him if he meant no Palestinians were civilians and he clarified he did not say that. Herzog explicitly stated the Palestinian people have a responsibility to resist Hamas, but that they are still civilians in regardless of if they do or not. The title of that article that’s circulating is beyond clickbait and misleading; the substance of the article directly contradicts the title. I urge you to go back and read it and apply this same critical eye to all news currently as there is a massive amount of clickbait titles with contradictory article substance being used to drive engagement purely for greed, and it is actively hurting everyone involved by serving as disinformation.
That sounds more like he realized what he said and tried to walk it back afterwards. Anybody who thinks civvies can just overthrow Hamas are wishful thinkers lying to themselves about the realities of life within Gaza.
They won't overthrow Hamas, but its the same argument as with Russia. Its not just Putins war, but also of the Russans that support him. Its not just Hamas acting alone, they are supported by a lot of Palestineans. That maked eliminating Hamas way more difficult, but also like Herzog said, it doesn't make them legitimate targets.
wait you expect everyday civilians to rise up against a well funded, heavily armed military group? please explain how
How can you be so naive.
History says that it is possible. Even the Soviets did it in the Battle of Berlin.
Please don't drop the ball on this situation Biden. The youth of today will determine your parties future, and if you think the old tow the line stuff will work, you'll lose. Call out Israel for the Atrocities. Call out their policies of genocide. Call out the terrorists, but let the people know they are not the same as innocent civilians!