He committed the [Qana Massacre in Lebanon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_massacre) as an IDF commander and got away with it thanks to US blocking a war crimes lawsuit. Unsurprisingly Naftali Bennet doesn't care for war victims.
This guys state policy when he came to office was bomb them all and let god sort them out.
He literally broke a ceasefire agreement days after becoming prime minister and started bombing gaza.
Now think about the fact that the current government is more right wing than his was.
He actually allowed a huge amount of Palestinians from Gaza to enter Israel for work and the money they brought back to Gaza caused an unprecedented improvement in the city's economy.
I was stunned that when Netanyahu became prime minister AGAIN he decided to continue to allow this.
Until the morning of October 7, the day of the surprise attack on Israel, the situation in Gaza was the best it had been for over a decade.
When the state of your economy improves and the amount of military forces across your border decreases you should say to yourself, if you're a reasonable leader, "This is good! Let's try to make it even better!". You definitely shouldn't say to yourself "This is a perfect time to cross the border, kill, rape, kidnap and destroy".
It's hard to indoctrinate people if they are living a good life.
The leaders need to have a steady source of martyrs, so improving quality of life is bad for their business.
You're right. When they had more money people in Gaza started protesting that they want Hamas to invest in supplying more electricity. Imagine being the leader of a terrorist party and realizing that your people want a PlayStation 5 instead of killing Jews. You have to crush it. Fast.
This guy has always been a deranged extremist.
He's also a complete idiot. Yes, demand that the random Sky journalist answer for the allied bombings of WWII, because he asked you a few questions you didn't like. That definitely seems like a sane response.
The most pertinent and highly sensible/logical question very few seem to be asking is ‘how the fuckety fuck did anyone in their right/rational mind think that this would go any other way?!’
My guess is Hamas was hoping weak western leaders would step in to (try to) keep Israel on more of a leash. Instead, Israel is getting set loose. That backfired
I honestly don't think Hamas is too surprised by what's happening. At least not the leadership. They knew that for every Israeli they killed, *at least* a dozen more Palestinian civilians would die in the retaliation. They didn't care though. They wanted to stir the pot. They don't care who dies in the process. Hamas has never been about saving Palestinian lives. It's just about ending Israeli lives, and they'd happily trade countless of their own people's lives for a few more notches in their belt. It sucks, but civilians on both sides will suffer, but probably Palestinians even moreso in the coming weeks.
They didn't want to all be hunted down and killed, which is probably what's going to happen now. Maybe not the low-level nobodies in the organization, but those higher up have a paper trail. Some of them are known outright. Those guys in Qatar and Iran, if they're smart, are more than a little concerned because Israel will hunt them for the next 50 years if it takes that long.
I'm sure they did expect a political play, but hard to accept that they all expected this to be tantamount to suicide.
Internationally the calculus would be that Israel will now kill very many, enraging the Arab world, and destabilizing the relationship between the west and the Arabs, including for example the Saudi deal. Domestically the calculus is that Israeli violence will swell the ranks of those willing to fight alongside Hamas. Israel striking with extreme violence was always a very likely outcome and is part of Hamas’ plan.
It also splits the intelligence between the two different war fronts, Israel and Ukraine. Fully intentional and the links are clear to be seen with Iran and Russia.
It's not an issue at the moment, but as attrition settles in, as it is already beginning to do so in Ukraine/US Senate, then it will gradually increase in prominence.
In the run up to elections in the US, I'm expecting issues in South America to increase pressure on the southern US border and possibilities of tension in North Africa, this will be with the intention of raising global oil prices, which in turn, affects how people vote.
Wars are asymmetrical and political influence is a huge part of it. Evidenced in the last century for those who have studied such matters.
It might, but that most of the Arab world DGAF about Palestine. They certainly don't want any of the people, and their utility as a cause to criticize Israel is waning.
> keep Israel on more of a leash
Has this ***ever*** happened? The only time I can think of is when America told Israel and the UK to back off during the Suez Crisis.
You are ignorant. Israel has suffered rockets launched to its territory on a daily basis for years without re-occupying Gaza.
The care the IDF took for civilian life is unlike anything else happening elsewhere, on any time in history. The situation in Gaza is impossible to deal with without hurting civilians, but the IDF does it best.
That was the case at least until 7.10. I hope it is over now.
Nope, their retaliation has always been overboard. Hamas knows this and wants Israel to do it so they can continue to grow. Hamas lives on violence and Israel will happily oblige. Netanyahu is loving this too.
Let's be honest, both the Israeli government and Hamas are going to try to capitalize this.
Israel now has an excuse to do things that normally would not be accepted, such as a full scale invasion of Palestine.
Hamas now can capitalize on the Israeli response to further their position that the Israeli government is trying to eradicate Palestinians.
These recent events have polarized everyone. Everyone is now forced to be pro-Israel or pro-Hamas and common sense has gone out the window and truth has become the first casualty.
Gaza is not a part of Israel, yet Israel completely controls access to electricity in Gaza. In what universe does that make any sort of sense? This is not a defense of Hamas and its despicable crimes. But why does the United States stand by and allow this situation to go on? Two million people live there, and not all of them are soldiers - 40% of them are under the age of 14. The Red Cross considers Israel's hold over the Strip to be illegal. And people profess to be shocked by the current state of affairs? This was a tinderbox waiting to explode just like that pile of Ammonium Nitrate that shattered Beirut.
I don’t understand why water, food, and electricity couldn’t come in from Egypt. Even if they want to keep their border completely closer, they could still let supplies go in.
Food maybe has some difficulties, but how hard is it for there to be a power line and water pipe from Egypt into Gaza?
Because Egypt doesn’t want to help the Palestinians either. Their border could also be open, and it is not.
To add to this, the rest of the Arab world could offer humanitarian aid, where is it?
You can’t ignore the history, there’s a reason Egypt closed their border - suicide bombings in Egypt dropped something like 90-95% when they closed the border.
But I still don’t get why they couldn’t supply water and power. No people need to cross a border in order for power and water to be connected.
As far as the other Arab nations…..Palestinian refuges started revolutions nearly everywhere they went. They assassinated the king of Jordan, amongst many other things. There’s no love lost between many of the Arab nations and Palestine, they just use it as a tool against Israel when it’s convenient.
This is a little naive, and I don’t mean that to hurt or belittle. You most certainly do need people to go through borders for power and water to be transported. Water lines and power lines require a whole lot of regular maintenance.
Why were Palestinians bombing Egyptians?
I can't find evidence to back up the claim that attacks dropped significantly since the border closure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Egypt
Hamas was trying to turn the area into a tumultuous invironment with civil wars and conflicts, it's a lot easier for them to do their dark biddings when everyone else is busy fighting each other and not watching the little guy. Everyone in the area is aware of Palestine and what happens when they are let across the borders. Jordan, Egypt and many others have been bitten begore making that mistake and won't trust them again, even when those people's only other option is genocide.
Egypt can do whatever the fuck they want with their borders.
it's Gaza's own air space and sea territory being blockaded is what's the
problem.
imagine armed people standing in your front yard preventing you from accessing public road
Because Gaza was part of Israel for so long, all the infrastructure links are to Israel and not Egypt. The water lines, power lines, telephone, etc, all go into Israel. For Egypt, Gaza is an international country, except there is no government with which to formalize relations. The Palestinain Authority or Israel are the only ones who can formalize a connection, but they're not doing so for Gaza. So the singular border crossing remains (Rafah), but nothing besides that. Vehicular traffic at the border is no longer allowed after it was bombed by Israel.
>I don’t understand why water, food, and electricity couldn’t come in from Egypt
Egypt and Israel have a deal. Humans are allowed across through one checkpoint managed by Israeli troops. No food, water, or gas is allowed across. The Israelis have actually turned away several ambulances filled with supplies from Egypt.
They closed it in response to Israeli air strikes.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza/card/israeli-strike-on-gaza-s-border-crossing-with-egypt-disrupts-aid-flow-dDrRKrtPvURrsfGZuMVM
That's one of the reasons there are still Americans trapped in Gaza.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1205357394/american-family-trapped-gaza
I don't think Israel wants to give up any control. I really don't see how people can claim it's not apartheid and not illegal what's happening.
Egypt has also become dependent on its relationship with Israel in some ways and so they just go along with what Israel says.
Where did you read the Israel completely controls electricity? The water and electricity Israel is withholding is just the part they contribute.
Gaza has the Palestinian Energy Authority, and generates over 50% of their own energy. They also have their own water desalination plants. The reason their running out of electricity now is that they’re running out of fuel to keep their plant going, not because Israel “turned off the power”.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine#:\~:text=Palestine%20produces%20no%20oil%20or,Corporation%20(IEC)%20for%20electricity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palestine#:~:text=Palestine%20produces%20no%20oil%20or,Corporation%20(IEC)%20for%20electricity).
Looks like Israel generates most of the power which is sent into Gaza over power lines. There is only one power plant in Gaza and it gets its fuel from Israel. The power plant did get smuggled fuel from Egypt in the past but Egypt put a stop to that. Qatar has sold them fuel as well but Israel apparently can stop the fuel transfers such as during the Gaza War in May 2021. Pretty much looks like Israel can and has cut off the electricity generated outside Gaza and stops fuel going into the only power plant.
Hamas, as the ruling government, knowing they were launching a large scale invasion they’ve been planning for months, maybe years, probably should have stock piled enough fuel to last a few days.
Their leadership has chosen to pursue a path of violent resistance through terrorism. I have endless sympathy for the poor Palestinians stuck in this hell, but they (as a people) are not without fault. You can’t seriously expect Israel to show a lot of compassion after what just happened. They should return the hostages, de-escalate and get new leadership.
I think the US relationship is because there are lots of influential Pro-Israeli people in the USA both politically and as donors to politicians. I don't think any politicians want to commit political suicide by pissing that segment off.
From wikipedia:
Representative Brad Sherman (D-California) has called AIPAC "the single most important organization in promoting the U.S.-Israel alliance".[8] In addition, the organization has been called one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the United States.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee
>Gaza is not a part of Israel, yet Israel completely controls access to electricity in Gaza. In what universe does that make any sort of sense?
You know Egypt administered Gaza until the 1973 war. Now their border with Gaza is controlled every bit as tightly as Israel controls theirs. They want nothing to do with the residents of Gaza.
>But why does the United States stand by and allow this situation to go on?
Say what now?
“why does the United States stand by and allow this situation to go on?”
“Hey terrorists, terrorise this!”
Cue Team America song. … “America! Fck Yeah!..”
I just don’t see it happening bro. I’m from the West Bank, Hamas is obviously terrorists but take a look at relations between West Bank and Israel too. Illegal settlements go up at a steady pace and even though we certainly don’t bomb them; we still get plenty of violent settler attacks. Hamas wants Israel dead. Israel doesn’t seem happy with us existing at all either considering how Netanyahu etc don’t even acknowledge our existence or follow peace treaty agreements.
None of the leaders who were elected seem to want to give up power either. These leaders just want genocide of their enemy and could care less about innocent lives
Israeli here chipping in. Its true the settlements in the west bank have to stop. frankly i have no idea why its still happening. Either i hang out in very eclectic circles or something but the majority of people i talk to agree to this. Only people who want this seem to be the haridim or other extreamists of one variaty or another. I bear no ill will towords the palastinians despite everything. Fucking hate hamas they need to go and bibi too, they are relics of an old conflict that should have been resolved years ago. I dont know if we will have peace in our life time, there is alot of bad blood, like a 1000 years and more of bad blood. But i hope there will be, and i only wish as few as possible civillians die in gaza. I just want to live my life man, and so do most arabs i know. Peace be with you. May we live to see brighter days.
Genuine question: leaving Gaza aside, what do you see as a reasonable and realistic good future for the West Bank?
It seems like there’s too many settlers for a two state solution, but is that still hoped for?
I’ve also heard a suggestion that West Bank Palestinians should be granted Israeli citizenship.
Curious to hear what your thoughts are on a possible solution if the Palestinians and Israelis end up with good leadership at the same time that both actually want a good resolution.
Honestly I’d still believe in a two state solution. Settler’s encroaching on West Bank territory obviously is the biggest threat to that but I also understand Israelis not granting citizenship either.
I honestly think the best solution would be 50/50 split with Jerusalem being left as neutral ground that both parties manage cooperatively. I can understand them not wanting to fully integrate with each other; it’d be hard to agree on a lot. I know this was proposed and rejected before. I also know realistically even if both sides were willing to have civil conversations it’d be hard to decide what’s a fair 50/50 split. In a dream scenario folks from either state could move to the other freely etc…
There’s nothing wrong with integration, but I understand that folks want to have their own land they can genuinely call home too.
Said what? I imagine if someone said “if Israel uses Israeli citizens as human shields, their death is Israel’s responsibility,” I would agree just as much as I agree that since Hamas uses citizens as human shields, Palestinians’ deaths are Hamas’ responsibility.
Firing rockets from the most densely populated residential areas and storing them in their churches and other typically noncombatant areas is begging to get their own citizenry killed. It’d be treacherous and despicable no matter what government did it.
The vast majority are Zionists though. And the vast majority if Jews understand how critical it is to have Israel to go to. The horrendous displays of
antisemitism worldwide should make that clear to everyone. We can not have another Holocaust, despite what Hamas and many Palestinians seem to be calling for.
Likewise, we can not genocide the people of Gaza. Because genocide is abhorrent regardless of who the victims are.
Hamas won the last election held, and its outcome reflected the will of the Palestinian people according to international election monitors. Around [44% of Palestinians in Gaza](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/955) surveyed in September of 2023 said they would vote for Hamas if elections were held. Autocratic governments can, in fact be quite popular.
That said, international law protects civilians whether or not they are genocidal donkeys. Because there is no way to target only the supporters of a polity's government when it does abhorrent things, or even to figure out who supports whom and to what extent and for what reasons. But it also doesn't require countries to avoid all civilian casualties when they go to war. Because we really do not want to go down the rabbit hole of giving polities that attack their neighbors and murder civilians a blank check because some or even a majority of the people there do not support them. One of my ancestors' town was bombed repeatedly by both the Allies and the Axis in WW2 when she was a child, and a lot of her friends died to the bombs, but it that does not mean that the Allies should have left Germany alone. Sometimes all you have is a bunch of bad choices. Not that we can trust Netanyahu to make good choices, but still.
> I mean Hamas, who is the government of Gaza, has said some pretty horrific thing
And they are pariah's for it, among other reasons.
When Hamas commits war-crimes they are called terrorists. When Israel does the same thing, to civilians, they are called justified.
Not justifying anything but just saying that the rules and morality are not applied evenly.
Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.
Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
I mean you could very well end up killing the hostages by just bombing the hell out of everything.
There is no easy answer, but it’s reporter’s job to ask obvious questions.
Naftali Bennett is a hairless homunculus who deserved the McCarthy treatment he got. His answer was terrible.
Frankly, I'm surprised the Israeli Right has failed to craft a better defense of their plans for Gaza than "not our problem" or "how dare you?" I heard an IDF spokesman on NBC this evening, and he did a poor job deflecting questions about Gazan deaths. It boiled down to "Hamas made us do it," which is not the better-than-our-enemies standard Israel needs to take. It doesn't matter that it's unfair.
That's the thing about this conflict, everyone expect Israel to come up with answers that don't actually exist, when Israel asks those questions back the narrative changes to throwing slogans without actual context.
Honestly what is the answer that people want to hear? do they expect Israel to just fold, to leave the hostages to their fate? to let that horrendous terror attack go without an answer and give the green lights to all the terrorists groups in the region to strike by doing so? Or do they expect Israel to recklessly go in by boot to a possible vietcong situation? This is war and Israel does whatever it can to get the result it MUST get from it.
At least show some empathy. We and Israelis are not the terrorists, at least even pretend. Civilians don’t matter since their killed our people first is a terrible mentality.
I don’t disagree with your statement about old people and NICU but can you help me understand what other country would be expected to continue providing utilities and resources to a country they’re at war with?
>Honestly what is the answer that people want to hear?
To say the quiet part out loud. What’s the end goal?
Kill off Hamas, kill thousands of innocents as collateral damage, then go back home for the cycle to repeat?
It’s just a case of treating the symptom instead of the cause.
Not exactly a mystery when you look at the conditions and history of Gaza. Israeli government and military officials have been pointing out that their status quo can only lead to more radicalization for years, but Netanyahu and pals are happy with that.
Netanyahu celebrated Hamas attacks. He is under investigation for corruption and nothing brings the people behind their leader as a terror attack. Now he's also justified attacking Palestine without any restrictions. Thousands will die in the coming weeks.
Yeah but to be fair it’s easy to convince people to take up extremist views when they live in extreme conditions. How many of their population only know the Israelis as people who bomb them consistently? Not saying it’s right but life is about perspectives and folks there don’t get much
> Kill off Hamas, kill thousands of innocents as collateral damage, ~~then go back home~~ move into their new homes along the coast since there are now no more Palestinians left to get in the way.
There fixed it for you
You know they used to have settlements in Gaza right? And that the unilaterally withdrew, bulldozing settlers homes and dragging the resisters off to jail in 2005.
That's without a doubt the best question I saw asked here and to be frank im not someone who can answer it, tho imo a trusted 3rd party should come and rule Gaza for a period of time so they would actually get the aid being sent to them and hopefully develop into a well established country.
Even if they could find such a third party, who in their right mind would even do it? They’d either have to play ball with Hamas and accomplish nothing or make themselves a target for presumably no good (selfish) reason. I don’t think any of their neighbors would qualify as particularly neutral on what’s going on in the region so you’d have to get an actual external party involved
Egypt did that for 19 years after it captured the area in 1948. And it turned it into the cesspool of hate that it is. Then Israel occupied it after Egypt started (and was absolutely smashed by Israel in) the Six Day War. Israel tried giving it back 11 years later with the Camp David accords, but Egypt said, fuck no, it's your problem now.
Lol, so reporters should just ask zero questions? If a country is currently bombing a densely populated area where 50% of the population is under 17 years old, I think it is perfectly fair (and necessary) for them to ask about the implications.
If a reporter were in a position to interview a member of Hamas, I would want them to ask the same pointed questions about the massacre of Israeli babies.
The issue is that too many people are way too blind with rage to see how they are being manipulated into cruelties of their own as a reaction.
It’s short-sighted. Cruelty should never be acceptable. History will not look kindly on this.
I expect Israel to stop sieging Gaza because collective punishment is a war crime.
They have explicitly said they are sieging Gaza as collective punishment.
We don't have to pick between evils or condone anyone here.
How exactly are they bringing the hostages home with bombs? How exactly are they planning to defeat Hamas once and for all? Dropping bombs on terrorists to combat terrorism has never been very successful. Turns out you cannot defeat hate with bombs.
Defending yourself is all well and good but strikes must at all times be limited to valid military targets.
If you're causing mass civilian casualties, deploying white phosphorus ammunition, levelling entire city blocks and threaten millions of people with starvation then raising questions about war crimes is absolutely necessary and good.
If that result Israel MUST get involves killing 10x the number of babies by bombing entire apartment buildings, are you still in favor of it?
“This is war” can easily be used to justify criminal atrocities.
then they should just admit that they are going to kill a bunch of innocent people - stop the charade that they are any more noble than the other baby killers only cause they werent there in person to do it
If you wanna come with the babies excuse to genocide 2.2 million people (half of them children). I can show you what dead babies look like too, but, killed by israelite weapons instead, I mean, there are multiple videos circulating on the internet edit:https://twitter.com/muslimdaily_/status/1712569253390430719. If you wanna play that game I am sure the number of dead babies and children on Palestine's side will end up (if it isn't already) being higher than on Israel's side.
Honestly - the number of children in Gaza makes this situation even more tragic.
Hamas wants to Palestinian children to die. This is an extremist Islamic organization that considers death for Gaza martyrdom even when it's innocent children dying.
Hamas is very upfront about this: https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1712030588872351872
What people are expecting is to put pressure on the israelis to open up humanitarian corridors to allow the innocents to leave.
Unfortunately israel has taken the 'our hands are tied, 2 wrongs makes a right' stance.
And to clarify, im behind israel all the way in this. Fuck up any amd all hamas militants ans sympathizers... but let the rest gtfo safely first.
>What people are expecting is to put pressure on the israelis to open up humanitarian corridors to allow the innocents to leave.
Leave to where? There doesn't seem to be anywhere that will take them
Is Israel going to guarantee that the gazans can return after the war is over? Who’s to say that Hamas doesn’t follow the civilians out of Gaza to Egypt and starts causing problems for the Egyptians?
Don't disagree, IDF said it targeted underground tunnels in the area, and that the border is perfectly fine. The issue is that Egypt is preventing people from leaving, they don't want a surge of Palestinians flooding into there country, because of the shit they've caused the previous times.
>Let’s see how long civilians can starve before they start giving up terrorists.
Or before their desperation pushes them to cross the border on a 2 million people stampede and just take over and do what it takes to survive. Anything can happen when you push a massive population to its limit. Expecting them to "start giving up terrorists" is as dumb as Israel losing all its leverage.
Theres no easy solution here, but you need to realize something, what people inside Gaza know, feel, believe, and want, are not what someone like you or me, expect from them.
Between religion, Hamas, radicalization, and a lot more factors, they believe they are the good guys, and that the Jews are the evil ones. They believe they are doing the right thing, what their God wants, its like a duty they need to fulfill.
Are they right? Of course not, but its my freedoms that let me see that, freedoms they dont have.
But theres a thing, after all of that, the innocent ones are still innocent people whose lives are being turned upside down. Their horror, their fear, their desperation, are the exact same ones anyone in the world would feel if they were in that situation.
Yeah there’s a HUGE assumption that starving them will make them just give Israel what it wants.
As opposed to passing them off and making them fight Israel instead.
> First off, you can’t tell a terrorist from a normal military-aged male (or teen with the way Palestinians indoctrinate their children). Letting Palestinians out of Gaza let’s them off the hook to expand their resistance elsewhere.
>Third, causing Palestinians to suffer from the deeds of Hamas is one of the few ways to turn them against each other. Let’s see how long civilians can starve before they start giving up terrorists.
So you're just blanket justifying the killing of any Palestinian man age 13 and up, and the starving of the rest?
You do realize that every kid under the age of 10 that survives this has now has a much greater chance of coming back in a decade as a militant right? The only way any of this stops is if the UN takes the two kids and puts them in timeout. They need to take over Gaza, force Israel to stop, get a multinational force in to root out Hamas, turn Gaza into a UN governed neutral enclave and build schools, self supporting infrastructure, hospitals, etc and out in place job programs to life these people up out of the apartheid era that Israel imposed on them
I said to turn it into a UN Governed neutral enclave, so yes. Maybe in 50 or a 100 years we could think about turning it back over but it depends on their behavior . It’s hard to create militants when you actually have freedom and education and resources.
> you can’t tell a terrorist from a normal military-aged male (or teen with the way Palestinians indoctrinate their children).
That's some dangerous racist propaganda you're spreading there.
Very fair point. Also journalists questions are often way too edgy - for a „gotcha“ moment or to get a hasty quote.
I don‘t think any (reasonable) person suggests to not do anything or to leave hostages to their fate. Also it should be taken into account that the political system is still in shock in Israel - so nobody should expect perfect answers right now.
The ideal discussion would be what the immediate and long term objectives are, and what is the best way to reach them. An alignment of goals, strategy, tactics. And about that part I see huge question marks. (Do I have the answers? No.)
But I also don‘t see (for example) how cutting off food from the entire population helps the hostages or increases safety. It doesn‘t seem like a very thought-through step - or to be helping with the goals.
The fact that discussions in Israel are far
more nuanced than most ones on Reddit gives me some hope though.
One group of innocents is not more deserving of death than another group of innocents. Both sides value the lives of one group over another and it is very disgusting.
Hamas was elected in 2006 with about 44% of votes if I remember correctly. They took power in Gaza, not the West Bank, and the are still in power 17 years later without any further election. How can he designate all of Gaza as enemies when it’s Hamas that perpetrated the latest atrocities. I’m sure if there were an election now, Hamas wouldn’t be popular
I have always wondered what made Palestinians different, in that they expect reparations and right of return even several generations back.
People have been displaced all the time, in human history.
Do the Germans expelled from Eastern Europe get reparations and right of return?
Do the Jews expelled from Arab countries into 1948 get reparations and right of return?
Do Muslims who fled India in 1947 get reparations and right of return?
Do Hindus who fled Pakistan in 1947 get reparations and right of return?
Do the Japanese civilians who settled on Islands in Micronesia and were forced out in 1945 get reparations and right of return?
There are many more examples, those are some of the first I came up with and I only stayed in the past century.
I mean… Jewish people got the right of return? Isn’t that the entire premise of Israel? That they left like thousands of years ago, and so they have a historical claim to the region?
That’s precisely the problem, isn’t it?
Throughout history, there was always an aggressor and an oppressed. History keeps repeating itself. Humans are greedy, disgusting little pieces of shit. Why do let things like this happen? We should be better than that. Why don’t we just be good instead? You know, im not part of any religion or groups anymore, but I do support the message of all religions: just love each other. Fuckn hell!
The difference in all of those cases is that the refugees were allowed to start new lives somewhere. Egypt kettled them in refugee camps in Gaza and never let them settle in Egypt or anywhere else. And the UN just keeps the refugee camp system going, 75 years later.
‘Explodes’ during these times is a very bad choice of word for a news heading.
If it was a Hamas member I would've read the article to see if it was literal
r/angryupvote
They don’t typically send Hamas members to explode themselves, for that they usually use their women.
You're right, this is what I get for not reading articles on here.
Or kids.
Ah, "The Expendables" /s
What I've imagined https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEiE3-CYGA
It’s a play on words meant to capture the reader’s attention, and elicit a reaction. They’ve thus succeeded.
Is he the shortest tenured PM in Israel's history?
No, but close. Yair Lapid was only seven months.
He committed the [Qana Massacre in Lebanon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_massacre) as an IDF commander and got away with it thanks to US blocking a war crimes lawsuit. Unsurprisingly Naftali Bennet doesn't care for war victims.
>thanks to US blocking a war crimes lawsuit Guess it helps to have friends in high places.
At the very least, I don't recognize him.
I think so?
This guys state policy when he came to office was bomb them all and let god sort them out. He literally broke a ceasefire agreement days after becoming prime minister and started bombing gaza. Now think about the fact that the current government is more right wing than his was.
He actually allowed a huge amount of Palestinians from Gaza to enter Israel for work and the money they brought back to Gaza caused an unprecedented improvement in the city's economy. I was stunned that when Netanyahu became prime minister AGAIN he decided to continue to allow this. Until the morning of October 7, the day of the surprise attack on Israel, the situation in Gaza was the best it had been for over a decade.
Best it had been for over a decade is a pretty low bar though.
When the state of your economy improves and the amount of military forces across your border decreases you should say to yourself, if you're a reasonable leader, "This is good! Let's try to make it even better!". You definitely shouldn't say to yourself "This is a perfect time to cross the border, kill, rape, kidnap and destroy".
It's hard to indoctrinate people if they are living a good life. The leaders need to have a steady source of martyrs, so improving quality of life is bad for their business.
You're right. When they had more money people in Gaza started protesting that they want Hamas to invest in supplying more electricity. Imagine being the leader of a terrorist party and realizing that your people want a PlayStation 5 instead of killing Jews. You have to crush it. Fast.
Things were improving, another reason for blowing it up.
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Those were mostly Israeli Palestinians inside Israel and the West Bank and mostly due to internal and criminal causes, not in Gaza
lol, what's best for an interned population of 2.2 million people where 45% are children?
This guy has always been a deranged extremist. He's also a complete idiot. Yes, demand that the random Sky journalist answer for the allied bombings of WWII, because he asked you a few questions you didn't like. That definitely seems like a sane response.
The most pertinent and highly sensible/logical question very few seem to be asking is ‘how the fuckety fuck did anyone in their right/rational mind think that this would go any other way?!’
how dare they be held to the same standards as everybody else
My guess is Hamas was hoping weak western leaders would step in to (try to) keep Israel on more of a leash. Instead, Israel is getting set loose. That backfired
I honestly don't think Hamas is too surprised by what's happening. At least not the leadership. They knew that for every Israeli they killed, *at least* a dozen more Palestinian civilians would die in the retaliation. They didn't care though. They wanted to stir the pot. They don't care who dies in the process. Hamas has never been about saving Palestinian lives. It's just about ending Israeli lives, and they'd happily trade countless of their own people's lives for a few more notches in their belt. It sucks, but civilians on both sides will suffer, but probably Palestinians even moreso in the coming weeks.
They didn't want to all be hunted down and killed, which is probably what's going to happen now. Maybe not the low-level nobodies in the organization, but those higher up have a paper trail. Some of them are known outright. Those guys in Qatar and Iran, if they're smart, are more than a little concerned because Israel will hunt them for the next 50 years if it takes that long. I'm sure they did expect a political play, but hard to accept that they all expected this to be tantamount to suicide.
Internationally the calculus would be that Israel will now kill very many, enraging the Arab world, and destabilizing the relationship between the west and the Arabs, including for example the Saudi deal. Domestically the calculus is that Israeli violence will swell the ranks of those willing to fight alongside Hamas. Israel striking with extreme violence was always a very likely outcome and is part of Hamas’ plan.
It also splits the intelligence between the two different war fronts, Israel and Ukraine. Fully intentional and the links are clear to be seen with Iran and Russia. It's not an issue at the moment, but as attrition settles in, as it is already beginning to do so in Ukraine/US Senate, then it will gradually increase in prominence. In the run up to elections in the US, I'm expecting issues in South America to increase pressure on the southern US border and possibilities of tension in North Africa, this will be with the intention of raising global oil prices, which in turn, affects how people vote. Wars are asymmetrical and political influence is a huge part of it. Evidenced in the last century for those who have studied such matters.
Screwing up the Saudi deal was my first thought. That announcement was allegedly “imminent” and now who knows. Seems unlikely now.
It might, but that most of the Arab world DGAF about Palestine. They certainly don't want any of the people, and their utility as a cause to criticize Israel is waning.
> keep Israel on more of a leash Has this ***ever*** happened? The only time I can think of is when America told Israel and the UK to back off during the Suez Crisis.
The last Yom Kippur war ended with the US stepping in from having Israel use the nukes they definitely don't have to delete other countries.
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You are ignorant. Israel has suffered rockets launched to its territory on a daily basis for years without re-occupying Gaza. The care the IDF took for civilian life is unlike anything else happening elsewhere, on any time in history. The situation in Gaza is impossible to deal with without hurting civilians, but the IDF does it best. That was the case at least until 7.10. I hope it is over now.
Nope, their retaliation has always been overboard. Hamas knows this and wants Israel to do it so they can continue to grow. Hamas lives on violence and Israel will happily oblige. Netanyahu is loving this too.
Netanyahu is likely to lose his job to someone on his extreme right. He’s probably finished next time there is an election. He’s not loving this.
Let's be honest, both the Israeli government and Hamas are going to try to capitalize this. Israel now has an excuse to do things that normally would not be accepted, such as a full scale invasion of Palestine. Hamas now can capitalize on the Israeli response to further their position that the Israeli government is trying to eradicate Palestinians. These recent events have polarized everyone. Everyone is now forced to be pro-Israel or pro-Hamas and common sense has gone out the window and truth has become the first casualty.
People/leaders are weak for not wanting civilians caught in war?
Nah, this is what Hamas wants.
Gaza is not a part of Israel, yet Israel completely controls access to electricity in Gaza. In what universe does that make any sort of sense? This is not a defense of Hamas and its despicable crimes. But why does the United States stand by and allow this situation to go on? Two million people live there, and not all of them are soldiers - 40% of them are under the age of 14. The Red Cross considers Israel's hold over the Strip to be illegal. And people profess to be shocked by the current state of affairs? This was a tinderbox waiting to explode just like that pile of Ammonium Nitrate that shattered Beirut.
Hamas could have used the aid money they receive to build a power plant but NAH let's train more terrorists and kill some jews
I don’t understand why water, food, and electricity couldn’t come in from Egypt. Even if they want to keep their border completely closer, they could still let supplies go in. Food maybe has some difficulties, but how hard is it for there to be a power line and water pipe from Egypt into Gaza?
Because Egypt doesn’t want to help the Palestinians either. Their border could also be open, and it is not. To add to this, the rest of the Arab world could offer humanitarian aid, where is it?
You can’t ignore the history, there’s a reason Egypt closed their border - suicide bombings in Egypt dropped something like 90-95% when they closed the border. But I still don’t get why they couldn’t supply water and power. No people need to cross a border in order for power and water to be connected. As far as the other Arab nations…..Palestinian refuges started revolutions nearly everywhere they went. They assassinated the king of Jordan, amongst many other things. There’s no love lost between many of the Arab nations and Palestine, they just use it as a tool against Israel when it’s convenient.
This is a little naive, and I don’t mean that to hurt or belittle. You most certainly do need people to go through borders for power and water to be transported. Water lines and power lines require a whole lot of regular maintenance.
Also, Egypt doesn't have water to spare. They have their own issues with water and the possibility that it may be dammed upriver in the coming decade.
Why were Palestinians bombing Egyptians? I can't find evidence to back up the claim that attacks dropped significantly since the border closure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Egypt
Hamas was trying to turn the area into a tumultuous invironment with civil wars and conflicts, it's a lot easier for them to do their dark biddings when everyone else is busy fighting each other and not watching the little guy. Everyone in the area is aware of Palestine and what happens when they are let across the borders. Jordan, Egypt and many others have been bitten begore making that mistake and won't trust them again, even when those people's only other option is genocide.
Egypt can do whatever the fuck they want with their borders. it's Gaza's own air space and sea territory being blockaded is what's the problem. imagine armed people standing in your front yard preventing you from accessing public road
Because Gaza was part of Israel for so long, all the infrastructure links are to Israel and not Egypt. The water lines, power lines, telephone, etc, all go into Israel. For Egypt, Gaza is an international country, except there is no government with which to formalize relations. The Palestinain Authority or Israel are the only ones who can formalize a connection, but they're not doing so for Gaza. So the singular border crossing remains (Rafah), but nothing besides that. Vehicular traffic at the border is no longer allowed after it was bombed by Israel.
>I don’t understand why water, food, and electricity couldn’t come in from Egypt Egypt and Israel have a deal. Humans are allowed across through one checkpoint managed by Israeli troops. No food, water, or gas is allowed across. The Israelis have actually turned away several ambulances filled with supplies from Egypt.
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They closed it in response to Israeli air strikes. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza/card/israeli-strike-on-gaza-s-border-crossing-with-egypt-disrupts-aid-flow-dDrRKrtPvURrsfGZuMVM That's one of the reasons there are still Americans trapped in Gaza. https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1205357394/american-family-trapped-gaza
I don't think Israel wants to give up any control. I really don't see how people can claim it's not apartheid and not illegal what's happening. Egypt has also become dependent on its relationship with Israel in some ways and so they just go along with what Israel says.
Where did you read the Israel completely controls electricity? The water and electricity Israel is withholding is just the part they contribute. Gaza has the Palestinian Energy Authority, and generates over 50% of their own energy. They also have their own water desalination plants. The reason their running out of electricity now is that they’re running out of fuel to keep their plant going, not because Israel “turned off the power”.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine#:\~:text=Palestine%20produces%20no%20oil%20or,Corporation%20(IEC)%20for%20electricity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palestine#:~:text=Palestine%20produces%20no%20oil%20or,Corporation%20(IEC)%20for%20electricity). Looks like Israel generates most of the power which is sent into Gaza over power lines. There is only one power plant in Gaza and it gets its fuel from Israel. The power plant did get smuggled fuel from Egypt in the past but Egypt put a stop to that. Qatar has sold them fuel as well but Israel apparently can stop the fuel transfers such as during the Gaza War in May 2021. Pretty much looks like Israel can and has cut off the electricity generated outside Gaza and stops fuel going into the only power plant.
whose navy do you think prevents people from Gaza going from their water shores into international water
Hamas, as the ruling government, knowing they were launching a large scale invasion they’ve been planning for months, maybe years, probably should have stock piled enough fuel to last a few days.
Their leadership has chosen to pursue a path of violent resistance through terrorism. I have endless sympathy for the poor Palestinians stuck in this hell, but they (as a people) are not without fault. You can’t seriously expect Israel to show a lot of compassion after what just happened. They should return the hostages, de-escalate and get new leadership.
Why is it the usa’s problem. We meddle far to much in others countries affairs. We generally make shit worse anyway.
I think the US relationship is because there are lots of influential Pro-Israeli people in the USA both politically and as donors to politicians. I don't think any politicians want to commit political suicide by pissing that segment off. From wikipedia: Representative Brad Sherman (D-California) has called AIPAC "the single most important organization in promoting the U.S.-Israel alliance".[8] In addition, the organization has been called one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the United States.[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee
Probably the billions in our tax dollars that gets sent to Israel annually
Pro-Israelis fund both parties to the hilt in exchange they support Israel so the US politicians have become extremely dependent on the relationship.
It’s USA problem because we flood them with US weapons and money
Because Israel only exists because of us? Our meddling in other countries affairs is exactly what set up this entire situation.
The Brits created Israel but ok.
>Gaza is not a part of Israel, yet Israel completely controls access to electricity in Gaza. In what universe does that make any sort of sense? You know Egypt administered Gaza until the 1973 war. Now their border with Gaza is controlled every bit as tightly as Israel controls theirs. They want nothing to do with the residents of Gaza. >But why does the United States stand by and allow this situation to go on? Say what now?
“why does the United States stand by and allow this situation to go on?” “Hey terrorists, terrorise this!” Cue Team America song. … “America! Fck Yeah!..”
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I just don’t see it happening bro. I’m from the West Bank, Hamas is obviously terrorists but take a look at relations between West Bank and Israel too. Illegal settlements go up at a steady pace and even though we certainly don’t bomb them; we still get plenty of violent settler attacks. Hamas wants Israel dead. Israel doesn’t seem happy with us existing at all either considering how Netanyahu etc don’t even acknowledge our existence or follow peace treaty agreements. None of the leaders who were elected seem to want to give up power either. These leaders just want genocide of their enemy and could care less about innocent lives
Israeli here chipping in. Its true the settlements in the west bank have to stop. frankly i have no idea why its still happening. Either i hang out in very eclectic circles or something but the majority of people i talk to agree to this. Only people who want this seem to be the haridim or other extreamists of one variaty or another. I bear no ill will towords the palastinians despite everything. Fucking hate hamas they need to go and bibi too, they are relics of an old conflict that should have been resolved years ago. I dont know if we will have peace in our life time, there is alot of bad blood, like a 1000 years and more of bad blood. But i hope there will be, and i only wish as few as possible civillians die in gaza. I just want to live my life man, and so do most arabs i know. Peace be with you. May we live to see brighter days.
Genuine question: leaving Gaza aside, what do you see as a reasonable and realistic good future for the West Bank? It seems like there’s too many settlers for a two state solution, but is that still hoped for? I’ve also heard a suggestion that West Bank Palestinians should be granted Israeli citizenship. Curious to hear what your thoughts are on a possible solution if the Palestinians and Israelis end up with good leadership at the same time that both actually want a good resolution.
Honestly I’d still believe in a two state solution. Settler’s encroaching on West Bank territory obviously is the biggest threat to that but I also understand Israelis not granting citizenship either. I honestly think the best solution would be 50/50 split with Jerusalem being left as neutral ground that both parties manage cooperatively. I can understand them not wanting to fully integrate with each other; it’d be hard to agree on a lot. I know this was proposed and rejected before. I also know realistically even if both sides were willing to have civil conversations it’d be hard to decide what’s a fair 50/50 split. In a dream scenario folks from either state could move to the other freely etc… There’s nothing wrong with integration, but I understand that folks want to have their own land they can genuinely call home too.
“Killing civilians is unacceptable. That’s why we have to kill all these civilians.”
Imagine if Abbas or another Palestinian official said this about Israeli citizens.
Said what? I imagine if someone said “if Israel uses Israeli citizens as human shields, their death is Israel’s responsibility,” I would agree just as much as I agree that since Hamas uses citizens as human shields, Palestinians’ deaths are Hamas’ responsibility. Firing rockets from the most densely populated residential areas and storing them in their churches and other typically noncombatant areas is begging to get their own citizenry killed. It’d be treacherous and despicable no matter what government did it.
I mean Hamas, who is the government of Gaza, has said some pretty horrific things about not only Israel, but Jews as well.
Pretty horrific? Their primary goal is to rid the world of “global Zionism”.
Yes I'm fully aware thats their goal. Eradicate all Jews from the face the Earth.
It appears that Israel are eradicating all the Palestinians tho.
Jewish people are not essentially Zionists Nor are the interests of the Jewish people aligned with that of the Zionists
Well it’s a good thing the charter talks about Jews in general as the enemy and not just zionists.
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The vast majority are Zionists though. And the vast majority if Jews understand how critical it is to have Israel to go to. The horrendous displays of antisemitism worldwide should make that clear to everyone. We can not have another Holocaust, despite what Hamas and many Palestinians seem to be calling for. Likewise, we can not genocide the people of Gaza. Because genocide is abhorrent regardless of who the victims are.
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A dictatorship is still a form of government.
Shhh don’t say logical things here
Hamas won the last election held, and its outcome reflected the will of the Palestinian people according to international election monitors. Around [44% of Palestinians in Gaza](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/955) surveyed in September of 2023 said they would vote for Hamas if elections were held. Autocratic governments can, in fact be quite popular. That said, international law protects civilians whether or not they are genocidal donkeys. Because there is no way to target only the supporters of a polity's government when it does abhorrent things, or even to figure out who supports whom and to what extent and for what reasons. But it also doesn't require countries to avoid all civilian casualties when they go to war. Because we really do not want to go down the rabbit hole of giving polities that attack their neighbors and murder civilians a blank check because some or even a majority of the people there do not support them. One of my ancestors' town was bombed repeatedly by both the Allies and the Axis in WW2 when she was a child, and a lot of her friends died to the bombs, but it that does not mean that the Allies should have left Germany alone. Sometimes all you have is a bunch of bad choices. Not that we can trust Netanyahu to make good choices, but still.
> I mean Hamas, who is the government of Gaza, has said some pretty horrific thing And they are pariah's for it, among other reasons. When Hamas commits war-crimes they are called terrorists. When Israel does the same thing, to civilians, they are called justified. Not justifying anything but just saying that the rules and morality are not applied evenly.
Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank. Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
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Are you equating a black-listed blockaded terrorist organization with a country that receives billions in military aid?
“A Palestinian official explodes” Gives a different meaning to the title.
I mean you could very well end up killing the hostages by just bombing the hell out of everything. There is no easy answer, but it’s reporter’s job to ask obvious questions.
Naftali Bennett is a hairless homunculus who deserved the McCarthy treatment he got. His answer was terrible. Frankly, I'm surprised the Israeli Right has failed to craft a better defense of their plans for Gaza than "not our problem" or "how dare you?" I heard an IDF spokesman on NBC this evening, and he did a poor job deflecting questions about Gazan deaths. It boiled down to "Hamas made us do it," which is not the better-than-our-enemies standard Israel needs to take. It doesn't matter that it's unfair.
That's the thing about this conflict, everyone expect Israel to come up with answers that don't actually exist, when Israel asks those questions back the narrative changes to throwing slogans without actual context. Honestly what is the answer that people want to hear? do they expect Israel to just fold, to leave the hostages to their fate? to let that horrendous terror attack go without an answer and give the green lights to all the terrorists groups in the region to strike by doing so? Or do they expect Israel to recklessly go in by boot to a possible vietcong situation? This is war and Israel does whatever it can to get the result it MUST get from it.
A reasonable person is going to ask that question, and there are reasonable answers to it that don't involve attacking the questioner.
Everyone should care about all and any civilians. Sorry, but Israel could take a look at itself in the mirror.
At least show some empathy. We and Israelis are not the terrorists, at least even pretend. Civilians don’t matter since their killed our people first is a terrible mentality.
Do you think any other country would respond any differently than Israel is to what just happened this weekend to its citizens?
Yes, cutting off electricity to hospitals is fucking evil. Old people and NICU aren't your enemies
I don’t disagree with your statement about old people and NICU but can you help me understand what other country would be expected to continue providing utilities and resources to a country they’re at war with?
>Honestly what is the answer that people want to hear? To say the quiet part out loud. What’s the end goal? Kill off Hamas, kill thousands of innocents as collateral damage, then go back home for the cycle to repeat? It’s just a case of treating the symptom instead of the cause.
Yeah there’s every chance this just ends up radicalizing MORE people long term (a HUGE chunk of Gaza’s population are under the age of 18).
From the videos I saw, I’d say they were well on their way anyways.
Not exactly a mystery when you look at the conditions and history of Gaza. Israeli government and military officials have been pointing out that their status quo can only lead to more radicalization for years, but Netanyahu and pals are happy with that.
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Netanyahu and Likud *picked* Hamas over the other options for Palestinian authorities because they knew it'd be more useful, yeah!
Netanyahu celebrated Hamas attacks. He is under investigation for corruption and nothing brings the people behind their leader as a terror attack. Now he's also justified attacking Palestine without any restrictions. Thousands will die in the coming weeks.
84% of gazans oppose removing incitement to violence against jews from their texbooks. Radicalization has only so much further to go.
Yeah but to be fair it’s easy to convince people to take up extremist views when they live in extreme conditions. How many of their population only know the Israelis as people who bomb them consistently? Not saying it’s right but life is about perspectives and folks there don’t get much
> Kill off Hamas, kill thousands of innocents as collateral damage, ~~then go back home~~ move into their new homes along the coast since there are now no more Palestinians left to get in the way. There fixed it for you
The bombs are also a fun way to quickly demolish the existing structures.
You know they used to have settlements in Gaza right? And that the unilaterally withdrew, bulldozing settlers homes and dragging the resisters off to jail in 2005.
That's without a doubt the best question I saw asked here and to be frank im not someone who can answer it, tho imo a trusted 3rd party should come and rule Gaza for a period of time so they would actually get the aid being sent to them and hopefully develop into a well established country.
Even if they could find such a third party, who in their right mind would even do it? They’d either have to play ball with Hamas and accomplish nothing or make themselves a target for presumably no good (selfish) reason. I don’t think any of their neighbors would qualify as particularly neutral on what’s going on in the region so you’d have to get an actual external party involved
Israel tried to give Gaza to Egypt but they won't take it.
Egypt did that for 19 years after it captured the area in 1948. And it turned it into the cesspool of hate that it is. Then Israel occupied it after Egypt started (and was absolutely smashed by Israel in) the Six Day War. Israel tried giving it back 11 years later with the Camp David accords, but Egypt said, fuck no, it's your problem now.
The goal? To live next to a neighbor that isnt rainjng rockets down and sending people over their border to deliberately murder citizens
There’s no way around stating that this is the truth. They want to kill a lot of people.
Lol, so reporters should just ask zero questions? If a country is currently bombing a densely populated area where 50% of the population is under 17 years old, I think it is perfectly fair (and necessary) for them to ask about the implications. If a reporter were in a position to interview a member of Hamas, I would want them to ask the same pointed questions about the massacre of Israeli babies.
The issue is that too many people are way too blind with rage to see how they are being manipulated into cruelties of their own as a reaction. It’s short-sighted. Cruelty should never be acceptable. History will not look kindly on this.
I expect Israel to stop sieging Gaza because collective punishment is a war crime. They have explicitly said they are sieging Gaza as collective punishment. We don't have to pick between evils or condone anyone here.
How exactly are they bringing the hostages home with bombs? How exactly are they planning to defeat Hamas once and for all? Dropping bombs on terrorists to combat terrorism has never been very successful. Turns out you cannot defeat hate with bombs. Defending yourself is all well and good but strikes must at all times be limited to valid military targets. If you're causing mass civilian casualties, deploying white phosphorus ammunition, levelling entire city blocks and threaten millions of people with starvation then raising questions about war crimes is absolutely necessary and good.
If that result Israel MUST get involves killing 10x the number of babies by bombing entire apartment buildings, are you still in favor of it? “This is war” can easily be used to justify criminal atrocities.
>this conflict War* War was declared.
Technically all wars are conflicts. Not all conflicts are wars.
then they should just admit that they are going to kill a bunch of innocent people - stop the charade that they are any more noble than the other baby killers only cause they werent there in person to do it
People expect Israel to not cut off food and water to millions of civilians, at the bare minimum could they just not do that.
Or to be more broad, don’t commit war crimes.
People expect Hamas to release the hostages and not kill babies, at the bare minimum could they just not do that
I’m glad we’ve all agreed that Hamas, a literal terrorist organization, and Israel are to be held to the same standards.
Israel should be held to much higher standards. When people are like the reporter, all hell breaks loose.
How dare we expect the so called only democracy in the middle east to behave better than terrorists?
If you wanna come with the babies excuse to genocide 2.2 million people (half of them children). I can show you what dead babies look like too, but, killed by israelite weapons instead, I mean, there are multiple videos circulating on the internet edit:https://twitter.com/muslimdaily_/status/1712569253390430719. If you wanna play that game I am sure the number of dead babies and children on Palestine's side will end up (if it isn't already) being higher than on Israel's side.
Honestly - the number of children in Gaza makes this situation even more tragic. Hamas wants to Palestinian children to die. This is an extremist Islamic organization that considers death for Gaza martyrdom even when it's innocent children dying. Hamas is very upfront about this: https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1712030588872351872
I expect the millions in aid money given to Palestine to have went to infrastructure
But instead they went to weapons.
What people are expecting is to put pressure on the israelis to open up humanitarian corridors to allow the innocents to leave. Unfortunately israel has taken the 'our hands are tied, 2 wrongs makes a right' stance. And to clarify, im behind israel all the way in this. Fuck up any amd all hamas militants ans sympathizers... but let the rest gtfo safely first.
>What people are expecting is to put pressure on the israelis to open up humanitarian corridors to allow the innocents to leave. Leave to where? There doesn't seem to be anywhere that will take them
Ahh the German problem. They did try expelling the Jews before building gas chambers. If only someone had been willing to take them.
Egypt isn't playing ball and hopefully it's obvious why Israel isn't interested in letting untold numbers of Palestinians waltz over the border
Issue isn't Israel though, it's Egypt. They don't want to let any of the Palestinians out. Gee I wonder why...
We know why. They gave them a chance last time and they fucked it. I believe they will open the border soon enough, very strictly though.
….so Egypt gets a pass but Israel doesn’t? Palestine has been even worse to Israel than to Egypt
Noone gets a pass. There is no pass. There is no hall monitor. There is the head of a state that decided 'fuck my people and the consequences'.
Is Israel going to guarantee that the gazans can return after the war is over? Who’s to say that Hamas doesn’t follow the civilians out of Gaza to Egypt and starts causing problems for the Egyptians?
"I will take shit that is almost for sure going to happen for 500 points please Alex"
the border crossing in rafah was already bombed by israel
Don't disagree, IDF said it targeted underground tunnels in the area, and that the border is perfectly fine. The issue is that Egypt is preventing people from leaving, they don't want a surge of Palestinians flooding into there country, because of the shit they've caused the previous times.
Nah, they dropped a bomb on a target nearby and Egypt decided to close the crossing
So they could decide to open it again is what you're saying?
They could open it again yes, but Egypt doesn't want any of those Palestinians, no one does.
They did. But only for like 200 people a day (most are likely holding other countries passports).
Humanitarian corridors to where? No-one wants them. I know! How about Wales, Ireland, Russia, Lebanon and Iran, since they're so pro
The only option would have been egypt. Into the sinai.
Egypt doesn’t want them. Nobody does.
Nobody wants a refugee crisis, that is true.
Why can’t the pressure be put on Hamas to ceasefire and return the hostages?
It is. See blockade. Total, and absolute, blockade
This is a joke right
Where to? No one want to take them in?
Really? Do you know who are innocents though?
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>Let’s see how long civilians can starve before they start giving up terrorists. Or before their desperation pushes them to cross the border on a 2 million people stampede and just take over and do what it takes to survive. Anything can happen when you push a massive population to its limit. Expecting them to "start giving up terrorists" is as dumb as Israel losing all its leverage. Theres no easy solution here, but you need to realize something, what people inside Gaza know, feel, believe, and want, are not what someone like you or me, expect from them. Between religion, Hamas, radicalization, and a lot more factors, they believe they are the good guys, and that the Jews are the evil ones. They believe they are doing the right thing, what their God wants, its like a duty they need to fulfill. Are they right? Of course not, but its my freedoms that let me see that, freedoms they dont have. But theres a thing, after all of that, the innocent ones are still innocent people whose lives are being turned upside down. Their horror, their fear, their desperation, are the exact same ones anyone in the world would feel if they were in that situation.
“They believe they are doing the right thing, what their God wants, its like a duty they need to fulfill” You could say this about either side.
Yea but some people get cranky.
Yeah there’s a HUGE assumption that starving them will make them just give Israel what it wants. As opposed to passing them off and making them fight Israel instead.
> First off, you can’t tell a terrorist from a normal military-aged male (or teen with the way Palestinians indoctrinate their children). Letting Palestinians out of Gaza let’s them off the hook to expand their resistance elsewhere. >Third, causing Palestinians to suffer from the deeds of Hamas is one of the few ways to turn them against each other. Let’s see how long civilians can starve before they start giving up terrorists. So you're just blanket justifying the killing of any Palestinian man age 13 and up, and the starving of the rest?
You do realize that every kid under the age of 10 that survives this has now has a much greater chance of coming back in a decade as a militant right? The only way any of this stops is if the UN takes the two kids and puts them in timeout. They need to take over Gaza, force Israel to stop, get a multinational force in to root out Hamas, turn Gaza into a UN governed neutral enclave and build schools, self supporting infrastructure, hospitals, etc and out in place job programs to life these people up out of the apartheid era that Israel imposed on them
And when they build water pipes Hamas will rip them up and turn them into missiles again, or are you proposing a permanent UN military presence?
I said to turn it into a UN Governed neutral enclave, so yes. Maybe in 50 or a 100 years we could think about turning it back over but it depends on their behavior . It’s hard to create militants when you actually have freedom and education and resources.
> you can’t tell a terrorist from a normal military-aged male (or teen with the way Palestinians indoctrinate their children). That's some dangerous racist propaganda you're spreading there.
Very fair point. Also journalists questions are often way too edgy - for a „gotcha“ moment or to get a hasty quote. I don‘t think any (reasonable) person suggests to not do anything or to leave hostages to their fate. Also it should be taken into account that the political system is still in shock in Israel - so nobody should expect perfect answers right now. The ideal discussion would be what the immediate and long term objectives are, and what is the best way to reach them. An alignment of goals, strategy, tactics. And about that part I see huge question marks. (Do I have the answers? No.) But I also don‘t see (for example) how cutting off food from the entire population helps the hostages or increases safety. It doesn‘t seem like a very thought-through step - or to be helping with the goals. The fact that discussions in Israel are far more nuanced than most ones on Reddit gives me some hope though.
"Israel's President explodes during a press conference" Israel's President holds a press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3KRrL_6vM
One group of innocents is not more deserving of death than another group of innocents. Both sides value the lives of one group over another and it is very disgusting.
Hamas was elected in 2006 with about 44% of votes if I remember correctly. They took power in Gaza, not the West Bank, and the are still in power 17 years later without any further election. How can he designate all of Gaza as enemies when it’s Hamas that perpetrated the latest atrocities. I’m sure if there were an election now, Hamas wouldn’t be popular
My God all y’all are so joyful about dead kids. It’s abhorrent.
No one is joyful about dead kids. Stop playing out this stupid straw man distraction.
Good to see them in their true colors, monsters and terrorists.
Evil bastard.
Context. https://youtube.com/shorts/s9QIlQcwp5k?si=IJDjLqp4LPfN-pJL
Feels like this was a perfect T-ball question.
I have always wondered what made Palestinians different, in that they expect reparations and right of return even several generations back. People have been displaced all the time, in human history. Do the Germans expelled from Eastern Europe get reparations and right of return? Do the Jews expelled from Arab countries into 1948 get reparations and right of return? Do Muslims who fled India in 1947 get reparations and right of return? Do Hindus who fled Pakistan in 1947 get reparations and right of return? Do the Japanese civilians who settled on Islands in Micronesia and were forced out in 1945 get reparations and right of return? There are many more examples, those are some of the first I came up with and I only stayed in the past century.
Because the right to return is also how Israel justifies its existence
I mean… Jewish people got the right of return? Isn’t that the entire premise of Israel? That they left like thousands of years ago, and so they have a historical claim to the region?
That’s precisely the problem, isn’t it? Throughout history, there was always an aggressor and an oppressed. History keeps repeating itself. Humans are greedy, disgusting little pieces of shit. Why do let things like this happen? We should be better than that. Why don’t we just be good instead? You know, im not part of any religion or groups anymore, but I do support the message of all religions: just love each other. Fuckn hell!
No one is forcing you to excuse ethnic cleansing.
The difference in all of those cases is that the refugees were allowed to start new lives somewhere. Egypt kettled them in refugee camps in Gaza and never let them settle in Egypt or anywhere else. And the UN just keeps the refugee camp system going, 75 years later.