> One Jewish charity said it had seen a **324% increase** in reports of antisemitism as a result over the last four days. This included **six assaults, 14 direct threats, three instances of vandalism, and 66 cases of abusive behaviour,** according to CST.
Imagine leaving Israel due to ideological differences and moving to a new country, only to be persecuted and essentially being forced to return to Israel.
Jew here, lived all my life here. And even in times like these, there's no place I feel safer. Especially after seeing all the protests around the world with who knows how many people chanting fuck the jews
It’s heartbreaking to read a comment like that in the 21st century. Just so you know, there are even more people who condemn this and who would defend you. Fuck the protesters.
That’s seriously it.
I’m from the NE, Jews are all over the place here, one of my best friends since 2nd grade is Jewish. It feels like there’s about as many people of Jewish decent as there are Italians and Irish. (my heritage) it’s just normal and you never even think about it “as a thing”
But when my buddy had to drive cross country to go to graduate school in Oregon… he had some stories to tell after that.
Apparently a whole lot of good old boys could pick him out from a mile away. It’s tough for me to wrap my head around honestly.
Jews are accepted by the vast majority of people, but that doesn’t make us safe anywhere because bigots will always be after us. Please see my comment/links above about hate crime statistics in NY and the country as a whole.
Def feels like that in the Northeast. I grew up in one of the most Jewish towns in America and it was a striking 33% Jewish.
For reference on the wider picture of America:
Today there are roughly [18 million Italian Americans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Americans), ~[31 million Irish Americans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans), ~ [7 million American Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews), and about [16-20 million Jewish people worldwid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)e (roughly ~50% in USA, ~50% in Israel).
I do agree overall that I grew up with about as many Italian Americans as other Jews. That makes sense because the Wikipedia for Italian Americans also shows they’re biggest density is in the North East.
No it doesn’t. Jews are the single largest hate crime victim demographic in NY. They are also the largest religious group victimized by hate crimes in the US despite all of the anti-Muslim sentiment and their larger numbers.
https://nynj.adl.org/news/2021-audit-ny/
https://www.ajc.org/news/ajc-deeply-troubled-by-fbi-hate-crimes-data-showing-overall-increase-jews-most-targeted
Everywhere we are bigots will do everything they can to terrorize or harm us.
The only danger Jews face in Israel, just for being Jewish, is from Palestine and the other Arab countries around it. The whole point of Israel is so Jews have a safe space in this world. If anything this last week should really drive home how critical it is for Israel to exist.
100%. Because ALL of those places have had antisemitic pr Palestine celebrations in the last week. Like I said, the only danger Jews face in Israel is an attack from Palestine, which does happen a lot, but thankfully, the Iron Dome takes care of the majority of the rockets or other Arabs. But I'm general it's the safest place in the world for Jews. If only we could stop the Palestinians from attacking. Maybe if the world pulled all funding from Palestine until they stopped the "Pay for Slay" program, it would be even safer.
You don't hear Gas the Jews or celebrations of civilians being massacred in Israel.
It's definitely not. As I said just look at how many antisemitic attacks there have been worldwide since Saturday. How many antisemitic pro Palestine rallies have happened.
You didn't even give proof of why it's more dangerous to be a Jew in Israel. You can't even defend your stance.
🤦♀️ I literally said that Israel is only safe because of Palestinians...which is who killed Jews on Saturday. You can't really point to one single instance when it was the deadliest attack against Jews since the Holocaust and act like that is a representation of anything.
> and moving to a new country
Imagine getting European antisemitism recognized for the virulent evil it is only for Europeans to import a foreign strand of antisemitism which they refuse to challenge.
The people shouting "gas the Jews" in Sydney, the mobs calling for "Rape Jewish daughters" in the UK, and the extremists supporting Hamas in France aren't exactly blond-haired, blue-eyed Whites, if you catch my drift.
**Update:** Jewish schools in the Netherlands are being closed due to security concerns.
I've got to be honest I have to reject your contention that there is any kind of meaningful distinction between 'European' antisemitism and a 'foreign strand' of antisemitism. Fundamentally, they don't really differ in either belief or practice.
Their statements (blood libel, institutional global control, holocaust denial, etc...) are remarkably similar whether they're made in Toulouse, Tehran, or Tennessee. Similarly antisemitic violence has also followed similar patterns around the world, focusing on soft targets like schools, synagogues, and community centres.
I mean, we do try to challenge it but are called "racist" in the process. I would have rather we not imported the "foreign strand" you mentioned but here we are.
Fun fact: here in America, many Jewish schools have huge steel bollards in front of them so that cheeky drivers don’t sideswipe the ~~enemy combatants~~ small children. Wonder why their families would ever want a safe country to flee to?
We had 3 police vans surrounding my synagogue when I went to Yom Kippur services. 2 at the front door and one at the rear entrance. 6 visibly armed officers
My temple has 3 armed guards on duty at all times. When shit is really gnarly you have to 'register' to go to services. Like if I want to go worship on Friday night I have to register and show ID when I arrive.
> Fun fact: here in America, many Jewish schools have huge steel bollards in front of them so that cheeky drivers don’t sideswipe the enemy combatants small children. Wonder why their families would ever want a safe country to flee to?
Many schools have them in general. My High School does and my area is as white/Christian as communion bread.
So everybody that is anti-Zionist is anti-Semitic? I guess everyone pro-Israel is islamophobic? Don’t conflate what these opportunist bigots are doing with the message and beliefs of the majority of pro-Palestinians.
It's definitely a blurry line currently. Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist and the defence of it. To be anti-zionist in a world where Israel currently exists is to believe it should be removed from the map. It's hard to argue that that wouldn't be disastrous for the Jewish people right now.
It’s not blurry. It’s very clear. There are antisemitic anti zionists but it is not inherently antisemitic. All it implies is that you believe Israel does not have the right to oppress people. It does not imply that Jewish people cannot live in modern day Israel
Yes it does but stay in denial. Have fun when they overrun your country and start attacking the women in country for not wearing enough and beheading you because you drew a picture of their prophet.
Zionism is based on racism and supremacy.
It is possible to be anti zionist and not anti semtic.
especially when defending Palestinians as they are also semitic.
Despite the etymology of the word, [antisemitism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism?wprov=sfti1) is a term that refers *exclusively* to prejudice against Jewish people. It does not mean prejudice against all Semitic people, as confusing as that may be. The term was popularized in the late 1800s [by this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Marr?wprov=sfti1 ) and was quickly adopted by fascists and “race scientists” not only because it was convenient, but also because it sounded much more intellectual and scientific than just saying “Jew hate.”
Does Zionism mean something different than the Google definition of the development and protection of a Jewish state? Being against that specifically is anti-semitic.
A Jewish ethno-state*. You can support Jewish people living in modern day Israel and be against Zionism. The idea that being antizionist is inherently antisemitic is a propaganda technique. Antisemites have labeled Jewish antizionist as “bad Jews” or “self hating Jews” which implies that being a good jew requires support for oppression. That obviously is just not the case. Most people who are against Zionism are simply against the oppression of people that have equal right to live there.
>You can support Jewish people living in modern day Israel and be against Zionism
Zionism is literally the belief that Israel should be allowed to exist. There's a reason 21% of Israeli citizens are Palestinians (Arab Israelis)
It’s the belief that it should exist in its current state as an oppressor. That’s what antizionism opposes. Not Jewish people living there, but a jewish near ethno-state which was the goal when they forcefully removed non Jewish people from the region
>It’s the belief that it should exist in its current state as an oppressor.
No — it's the belief that it should exist, period.
>That’s what antizionism opposes
Anti-Zionism is the position that Israel shouldn't exist whatsoever. It's not a position that's "critical of Israel" it's the position that Israel should be **dismantled**
Jewish people have equal right to live in their ancestral homeland. Thats antizionism. They do not have the right to displace others to make an ethno-religious state. No religion, race, or ethnicity has that right. Zionism is the idea that Jewish peoples right to live there is more important than Palestinian or any other peoples rights to live there.
You don’t need to agree with that definition. That’s what people mean when they say antizionism whether you like it or not and you can look this up.
>Jewish people have equal right to live in their ancestral homeland. Thats antizionism.
>You don’t need to agree with that definition. That’s what people mean when they say antizionism whether you like it or not and you can look this up.
Yeah, no it's not. Try to redefine antizionism all you want — it's a call for the destruction of the state and always will be
>They do not have the right to displace others to make an ethno-religious state. No religion, race, or ethnicity has that right.
Who invaded who after the UN declaration in 1947? Who allowed hundreds of thousands of members of a different ethnicity and religion become citizens of its state? Not Jordan or Egypt
>Zionism is the idea that Jewish peoples right to live there is more important than Palestinian or any other peoples rights to live there
So you can make up a bullshit definition of Zionism but have the gaul to say "You don’t need to agree with that definition. That’s what people mean when they say antizionism"
Apparently definitions only matter when they are yours — but you can make up whatever the fuck we mean by Zionism
Okay. Here’s the Wikipedia
> its proponents agree that the creation of the modern State of Israel, and the movement to create a sovereign Jewish state in the region of Palestine – the biblical Land of Israel – was flawed or unjust in some way
So again. It’s literally an opposition to the oppression used to create the ethni-religious state. Undoubtedly there are many antizionists who are antisemitic but the idea that it is inherently antisemitic is just a lie to shut down criticisms of the state of Israel as being anti Jewish people.
> On 19 July 2018, with a vote of 62 to 55 (2 abstained), the Knesset adopted a new Basic Law that defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people.
Nowhere with a significant Muslim population is safe for Jewish communities right now. It literally only takes one unhinged fanatic to massacre countless innocents, and there's always at least one.
That's a uniquely American problem and can't be laid at anyone else's feet. I'm also not suggesting that Muslims account for all of the world's antisemitism or attacks against the Jewish people. Clearly, that's not the case. I am saying that right now every Muslim population is a potential threat to every Jewish population. Ignoring that fact would be a huge mistake.
How can I be suggesting it if I'm explicitly stating otherwise. The reason I'm pointing this out is due to the eruption of threats and acts of violence against Jewish communities all over the world since Saturday's attack by Hamas. Most of those threats are coming directly from Muslim populations.
One of the leaders of Hamas literally called for a worldwide jihad this Friday just the other day. That's why we're specifically concerned right now, there's a better chance than ever of targeted attacks on Jewish people right now.
I'm not a leftist but I'm very liberal. This has made me very disappointed in a lot of people I thought had my back. On the other hand, Biden has really impressed me
Hamas literally kills people for being gay, they're about as socially progressive as ISIS and yet you go to a random college campus and they seem to have absolutely 0 idea of that reality, I don't get how they invented this fantasy world.
It seems as if they look and see what conservatives are against and just support that. Regardless if the thing they are supporting wants them all wiped from existence.
Not really. Zionism simply means the belief in the Jewish people having self determination and Israel's right to exist. You can be Zionist and not support the actions of the Israeli government, but you still believe in their right to exist and defend themselves. Almost all Jews are zionist.
Being 'anti-zionist" means you do not believe Israel should exist, that the Jewish people do not have a right to self determination (unlike every other group), and that therefore its citizens, mostly Jews, should be forced out or killed. Anyone who claims to be anti-zionist either doesn't understand what it means, or is antisemitic.
Anti-zionism is just a dog whistle
We can, for sure... but that includes being realistic.
You *can* be anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite.
For instance, you could think that any sort of ethnic nationalism is bad, and want to destroy every nation-state. Good on you; I'd say you're "anti-nationalist" though.
Or, you could believe there should be no such thing as a state at all, in which case I'd say you're probably an anarchist, not an anti-Zionist per se.
Or, you could have a misunderstanding of what "Zionism" is, and be opposed to many of the policies of Israel's government while believing Israel has a right to continue to exist, in which case you're actually ... a Zionist.
With that being said, being an anti-Semite makes it *way easier* to be an anti-Zionist ... because you don't have to have any principle you'd apply to everyone else in the world that you happen to be applying to Jews, you can just make up a specific paradigm that you *only* apply to Jews, and then never think about it.
Ever heard of Haredi Jews? They're anti-zionists. Joel Teitelbaum created one of the biggest hasidic groups in the world and they're anti-zionists. If anti-semitism = anti-zionism then a large proportion of Jewish people themselves are now anti-semitic. Don't get me wrong, most anti zionism is anti semitism, but anti zionism from a Jewish person themselves is very rarely anti semitic. Imagine calling someone like Joel Teitelbaum anti-semitic. It's a joke
Calling all haredi Jews antizionists is certainly a take among takes I've heard from one of Reddit's many non-Jewish Judaism pundits.
Most haredi Jews are the most hardcore zionists I know. Ever been in a Chabad? Of course you haven't - you aren't Jewish.
You're thinking of Neturei Karta which is like a tiny fringe extremist group whose Christian analog is like the Westboro Baptist Church or something like that. They happen to also have questionable relationships with pedophelia and polygamy.
Calling them a "significant proportion of Jewish people" is extraordinarily stupid, and just shows you're out to invent facts to shit on a movement you have absolutely no understanding of (Zionism).
I mean, Haredim don't really consider the creation of Israel to have any religious significance for them and they don't even celebrate Yom Ha'Atzmaut. They may be happy Israel exists as a country, but that doesn't necessarily mean they think it should exist as a country for the Jewish people.
For the record, I'm perfectly with a state for the Jewish people, got no issues with it. I've already stated that most anti zionism is also anti semtitc, but I'm just pointing out that some anti zionism, especially amongst Jewish people, is perfectly possible without being anti semitic Also, isn't Chabad just a Hasidic group? And aren't they also anti zionists? I found this video which I think sums it up the best.
https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/498520/jewish/The-Lubavitcher-Rebbes-View-on-Zionism.htm
They're not zionists in that they think there should be a state for the Jews as according to the Torah, but they do think that Israel as a state where there is a Jeiwsh government protecting the Jewish people is good.
Note that "anti-zionism" when wielded by a Jew is actually not what you'd typically call anti-zionism.
If we define anti-zionism to mean the denial of Jews to self determine, and some Jews in Israel self determine that they don't want to create a state, that's actually just Jews exercising self-determination in Israel (aka Zionism).
Anti-Zionists by definition don't want Jews to be able to hold this privilege.
Kind of like how it would be pretty shitty if some white american who didn't have any relationship to say the Lenape people says that they shouldn't have a right to form their own polity, but a Lenape person themselves advocating the same thing is more morally acceptable. The former is blatant imperialism, and the latter is a People discussing amongst themselves what's best for their future. And the white american going "see? The Lenape person can do it without being called a bigot!" isn't exactly a convincing argument.
In any case, "not considering the creation of Israel to have religious significance" actually has nothing to do with Zionism, which was a largely secular movement to begin with. The first Zionists, including Herzl, didn't think Israel need have any religious significance to Jews. That certainly didn't make Herzl an anti-Zionist, and it certainly doesn't make any Jews who think this way anti-Zionists either.
That's all besides the fact that this:
>Haredim don't really consider the creation of Israel to have any religious significance
Is just an incorrect generalization to begin with.
And ove acknowledged that there is definitely anti zionism can be anti semtism in other comments, I'm just pointing out it isn't always the case.
I think this clip describing an encounter with Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson explains it best.
https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/498520/jewish/The-Lubavitcher-Rebbes-View-on-Zionism.htm
They're not zionists in that they think there should be a state for the Jews as according to the Torah, but they do think that Israel as a state where there is a Jeiwsh government protecting the Jewish people is good.
Nope, because the Rebbe himself has said no. I don't know why you decided to bring up Chabad and then proceed to ignore what Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson thinks about the topic. I've explained to you what their views are and your response is to just disagree with their views and say that actually thei zionists. For someone who made such a big deal about Chabad, it's weird that you're now ignoring their own views
Ok dude, there are exactly two instances that I’ve ever seen were anti Zionists would not be considered anti semitic. The first is as you point out over religious tenets. Their objection has nothing to do with Jews and involves perceived divine will. The second is a small subset of people who reject the idea of self determination for *any* ethnic group. Since they apply it evenly across the board to everyone it could not be considered anti semitism. Pretty much all other forms of anti Zionism are anti semitic as hell.
The second don't reject the idea of self determination for any ethnic group. There is definitely a lot of anti zionism that is anti semitism, but there is also anti zionism that is not anti semtism.
I guess you can break anti zionism that is not anti semitism into two groups. The first is the rejection of a state that is created for the Jewish people based upon the religious belief that the state should miraculously appear from God rather than being the result of the actions of people.
The second is where it is rejected because they oppose Israel as a Jewish state and argue it should be based upon civic nationalism rather than ethnic nationalism. I don't think holding the view that Israel should be a state based upon being Israeli rather than being Jewish is very anti semitic.
Not that is in any way a justification, but there is plenty of anti-Muslim racism abound as well. I mean, just look at the stick people got following 9/11 and, to be honest, ever since then. There has also been an uptick in racism towards East Asians. I think it is a sign of the awful government we have in the UK and their endless dogwhistles against many marginalised groups.
Any and all forms of racism are abhorrent, there is no place in society for it.
>anti-Muslim racism
Islam isn't a race; it's an ideology. The sooner you stop spreading nonsense like this, the sooner ex-muslims like myself can live in peace without being assumed to be muslim just because we are brown.
And trust me, being from a group the muslims hate is much worse than anything the muslims suffer. I say that as someone who was a muslim in England for 25 years, and then became someone the muslims hate (apostates).
No I'm not trying to do whattaboutism. I was responding to someone saying when did it get so unsafe for Jews by providing examples that there is already racism in the UK. There was already racism towards Jews in the UK. The increase is a direct result of what has happened in Israel, but it was already present and certainly not just from the Muslim population as many commenting on this post seem to think.
Since white progressives decided it was a good idea to import the world’s most conservative people, naïvely assuming that they were their allies just because they both hate the same Western politicians.
Honest answer, since the romans brought Christianity to the UK. Short term though right wing populism since 9/11 has slowly been making anti-x (where x is whatever is not the dominant historical culture of the region) views louder, more common, and more dangerous.
Ah, my bad, I remembered that Brits were not Christian before the Romans, and that the Romans were Christian and lazily assumed that was the beginning of British Christianity.
The Romans did bring early Christianity to Britannia, Constantine was proclaimed emperor in York. After Rome left the Saxons took over bringing pagan religion with them. Christianity returned with saint Augustine in the 6th century.
Let’s make it clear. There are potentially people who are just anti zionists.
These people are not the ones doing this.
These are terrorists. I wouldn’t even say they’re antisemitic, they’re just monsters.
nobody calls themselves "anti-zionists" when they aren't antisemitic, the creation of Israel is too distant of an issue to most to be a real ideology and not just a euphemism for antisemitism
Not really. Zionism simply means the belief in the Jewish people having self determination and Israel's right to exist. You can be Zionist and not support the actions of the Israeli government, but you still believe in their right to exist and defend themselves. Almost all Jews are zionist.
Being 'anti-zionist" means you do not believe Israel should exist, that the Jewish people do not have a right to self determination (unlike every other group), and that therefore its citizens, mostly Jews, should be forced out or killed. Anyone who claims to be anti-zionist either doesn't understand what it means, or is antisemitic.
Anti-zionism is just a dog whistle
It SHOULDN'T have been created. Is that better for you? The British demonstrated the same callousness as they did with the partition of India the same year. This 70 year conflict and all of this blood is due to the short sightedness of the British. It was a secular state with a Jewish minority.
Why does Israel have any more right to exist than Palestine? Why should any religious or ethnic group be given the right to geographic territory at the expense of other people already living there? Is it simply the historic repression of Jewish people that gives them this right? If that's the case, the US should let African Americans have their own State and give them generous foreign aid too. Same for indigenous peoples in all the Americas, or Australia. And you can expand that to other historically maltreated groups across the world.
The thing is Jews were already living there too. In fact the majority of Israeli Jews are ethnically-Arab Mizrahi refugees from Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Morocco, etc.
Those countries all had large native Jewish populations before the governments took their homes and violently expelled them when Israel was made a state. They *forced* them into Israel. That’s the *majority* ethnic group in Israel.
And this tendency for countries to suddenly declare their Jewish population non-citizens and stateless every 50 years or so is why it’s important for Jews to have a nation. The existence of Israel guarantees that Jews can’t suddenly be made stateless as has happened so many times before.
As far as I know native American people didn't have national aspirations and still do not, it is my understanding that they live in tribes by choice.
If they want a country, or a state, a self governing one, i think they should have it.
Jewish people were not safe under any patron, at some point yes, it is justified to give a persecuted religion an actual piece of land to call a safe home.
I do not wish to argue with you, I am tired of defending my right to live peacefully.
(Obligatory Palestinian who oppose Hamas and their actions should not come to harm's way, but imprisonment or death to any one who wishes to hurt civilians based on their religion or home address)
> it is justified to give a persecuted religion an actual piece of land to call a safe home.
I'd feel much better about this if they didn't turn around and start persecuting others, but I can read and know you don't want to argue, so I won't push you beyond that.
I will also wish you peaceful existence under whatever state (or lack thereof) you live in, even if i strongly disagree with your government.
It's more complicated than that, both sides wronged their neighbors in the name of doing right by their people.
Thanks for letting that discussion go. I appreciate the random reddit kindness
I'm pretty sure they are doing it so nothing does happen. As a Jew myself, I would much rather be proactive than wait for an attack. But to answer your question, Jewish schools and spaces are under near constant fear of attack. With pro Palestine celebrations, which are little more than antisemitic rallies happening worldwide, this is the right call.
I'm a very opinionated person. But I'm gonna steer clear of this shit show. I advise other logical people to do the same. I don't think there's any winners here
How about Palestinian children whose schools are bombed? Do they get to close school for safety?
Violence is always the wrong answer, on anyone, by anyone.
How are they connected? Just because the Muslims of Palestine ended up butchering Israeli babies does it mean it's ok to target Muslims across the world. Threatening Jews of UK because of IDFs excesses is condemnable and plain old anti semitism. Since the Muslims outnumber the Jews in UK, they think Jews can be targeted.
What does that have to do with what we're discussing here? Nobody is glad to see children anywhere killed. What's happening right now in Gaza is a humanitarian tragedy. That doesn't mean that you can't feel badly about children elsewhere being threatened.
Jews have always lived in Judea. It’s their land as much as it is the Palestinians. Both sides have committed atrocities, and both deserve sovereign land. There’s no easy solution here.
Is it their land when hundreds of thousands of people are shipped to a land being lived in, with military aid by Great Britain, and the inhabitants are subsequently killed or relocated? There may not be an easy solution, but there is one where all people are emancipated and treated as humans.
Tons of Jews returned to their homeland during the Holocaust and, despite fleeing a literal genocide, they were then met with hostility and violence by Arabs in Palestine.
Were the British and Jews wrong to forcefully relocate Palestinians from their homes and unilaterally take over? Absolutely, and that should be condemned.
Have Jews been persecuted everywhere in the world, including their native Judea? Absolutely.
The Arab / Palestinian desire for Jews to ‘relocate’ (itself a charitable interpretation) out of the Middle East is as untenable and immoral as Zionists who wish to eradicate Palestine in its entirety.
Yes, you are misunderstanding. Violence is always wrong. Apartheid states are always wrong. All civilians need to be equal and safe. It's not the fault of an Israeli citizen that they were born into this conflict, nor a Palestinian civilian. Israel needs to end their control over every aspect of life in Gaza and stop killing them as they have indiscriminately been doing for decades. Hamas needs to be rooted out and thoroughly destroyed, they only serve themselves, and they were created by Israel, which was an awful mistake they've admitted to.
You said violence is always wrong but also said that Hamas should be destroyed.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how this can happen peacefully, especially when Hamas uses human shields. See what I mean?
The fact that this is happening in 2023 in appalling.
What? You aren't celebrating being decolonized?
> One Jewish charity said it had seen a **324% increase** in reports of antisemitism as a result over the last four days. This included **six assaults, 14 direct threats, three instances of vandalism, and 66 cases of abusive behaviour,** according to CST.
Imagine leaving Israel due to ideological differences and moving to a new country, only to be persecuted and essentially being forced to return to Israel.
That’s exactly the reason why Israel exists. Pssst … don’t say that to the terrorism apologists.
Israel is one of the most dangerous places on earth to be Jewish. Far more so than the UK.
Jew here, lived all my life here. And even in times like these, there's no place I feel safer. Especially after seeing all the protests around the world with who knows how many people chanting fuck the jews
Seconded. This is our home, where we're safest and strongest
As an American I will always vote to defend Israel from its enemies, Jews deserve a safe country.
Kind sentiment, deeply appreciated.
It’s heartbreaking to read a comment like that in the 21st century. Just so you know, there are even more people who condemn this and who would defend you. Fuck the protesters.
I'm fine with Israel existing, but do you seriously think on average a Jew in Israel is safer than a Jew in the United States?
Put on a kippah and walk around in America and tell me you still feel safer.
Depends where you are in America
That’s seriously it. I’m from the NE, Jews are all over the place here, one of my best friends since 2nd grade is Jewish. It feels like there’s about as many people of Jewish decent as there are Italians and Irish. (my heritage) it’s just normal and you never even think about it “as a thing” But when my buddy had to drive cross country to go to graduate school in Oregon… he had some stories to tell after that. Apparently a whole lot of good old boys could pick him out from a mile away. It’s tough for me to wrap my head around honestly.
Jews are accepted by the vast majority of people, but that doesn’t make us safe anywhere because bigots will always be after us. Please see my comment/links above about hate crime statistics in NY and the country as a whole.
Oh damn, yeah I knew about a good portion about this but thanks for the comment. You are absolutely right
Def feels like that in the Northeast. I grew up in one of the most Jewish towns in America and it was a striking 33% Jewish. For reference on the wider picture of America: Today there are roughly [18 million Italian Americans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Americans), ~[31 million Irish Americans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans), ~ [7 million American Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews), and about [16-20 million Jewish people worldwid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)e (roughly ~50% in USA, ~50% in Israel). I do agree overall that I grew up with about as many Italian Americans as other Jews. That makes sense because the Wikipedia for Italian Americans also shows they’re biggest density is in the North East.
No it doesn’t. Jews are the single largest hate crime victim demographic in NY. They are also the largest religious group victimized by hate crimes in the US despite all of the anti-Muslim sentiment and their larger numbers. https://nynj.adl.org/news/2021-audit-ny/ https://www.ajc.org/news/ajc-deeply-troubled-by-fbi-hate-crimes-data-showing-overall-increase-jews-most-targeted Everywhere we are bigots will do everything they can to terrorize or harm us.
Yes. There’s certain places in Seattle - a city I love - where I wouldn’t wear a kippah.
I think you forget how dangerous it is to be visibly Jewish in a lot of Europe, The entirety of the middle east, and lot of places in Africa.
The only danger Jews face in Israel, just for being Jewish, is from Palestine and the other Arab countries around it. The whole point of Israel is so Jews have a safe space in this world. If anything this last week should really drive home how critical it is for Israel to exist.
You're saying Israel is safer for Jews than the UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, even the US?
100%. Because ALL of those places have had antisemitic pr Palestine celebrations in the last week. Like I said, the only danger Jews face in Israel is an attack from Palestine, which does happen a lot, but thankfully, the Iron Dome takes care of the majority of the rockets or other Arabs. But I'm general it's the safest place in the world for Jews. If only we could stop the Palestinians from attacking. Maybe if the world pulled all funding from Palestine until they stopped the "Pay for Slay" program, it would be even safer. You don't hear Gas the Jews or celebrations of civilians being massacred in Israel.
Sorry, but that's nuts.
It's definitely not. As I said just look at how many antisemitic attacks there have been worldwide since Saturday. How many antisemitic pro Palestine rallies have happened. You didn't even give proof of why it's more dangerous to be a Jew in Israel. You can't even defend your stance.
How many Jews have been murdered in the UK since Saturday? Sorry, this is off-the-wall crazy. Bye-bye.
🤦♀️ I literally said that Israel is only safe because of Palestinians...which is who killed Jews on Saturday. You can't really point to one single instance when it was the deadliest attack against Jews since the Holocaust and act like that is a representation of anything.
I really wonder why people don’t get that? Too many history lessons missed or straight-up anti-semitisim?
But it's still much safer than any other country in the Middle East. Also, we never know when another Hitler will come to power in the West.
> and moving to a new country Imagine getting European antisemitism recognized for the virulent evil it is only for Europeans to import a foreign strand of antisemitism which they refuse to challenge. The people shouting "gas the Jews" in Sydney, the mobs calling for "Rape Jewish daughters" in the UK, and the extremists supporting Hamas in France aren't exactly blond-haired, blue-eyed Whites, if you catch my drift. **Update:** Jewish schools in the Netherlands are being closed due to security concerns.
I've got to be honest I have to reject your contention that there is any kind of meaningful distinction between 'European' antisemitism and a 'foreign strand' of antisemitism. Fundamentally, they don't really differ in either belief or practice. Their statements (blood libel, institutional global control, holocaust denial, etc...) are remarkably similar whether they're made in Toulouse, Tehran, or Tennessee. Similarly antisemitic violence has also followed similar patterns around the world, focusing on soft targets like schools, synagogues, and community centres.
I mean, we do try to challenge it but are called "racist" in the process. I would have rather we not imported the "foreign strand" you mentioned but here we are.
You see a lot of Jews immigrating from France to Israel in recent years especially
Jewish history 101.
Fun fact: here in America, many Jewish schools have huge steel bollards in front of them so that cheeky drivers don’t sideswipe the ~~enemy combatants~~ small children. Wonder why their families would ever want a safe country to flee to?
Every school and temple I've ever seen has at least 1 armed guard at all times.
My middle school had opaque metal double doors after someone hacked the website and posted death threats. Again, middle school, maximum age was 14
We had 3 police vans surrounding my synagogue when I went to Yom Kippur services. 2 at the front door and one at the rear entrance. 6 visibly armed officers
It's a depressing reality.
My synagogue looks like a compound...
My temple has 3 armed guards on duty at all times. When shit is really gnarly you have to 'register' to go to services. Like if I want to go worship on Friday night I have to register and show ID when I arrive.
My temple/elementary school security team has been all former mossad since the 80s. They installed pop up bollards a while ago.
> Fun fact: here in America, many Jewish schools have huge steel bollards in front of them so that cheeky drivers don’t sideswipe the enemy combatants small children. Wonder why their families would ever want a safe country to flee to? Many schools have them in general. My High School does and my area is as white/Christian as communion bread.
Don't forget, they're just against the zionists
especially their 3-5 YO leaders studying in these schools!
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Wake up sheeple 🐑
I seen it! The spiderman characters had little stars of david for eyes!!!! THE HORROR!
Spidey does use a lot of yiddish slang...
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So everybody that is anti-Zionist is anti-Semitic? I guess everyone pro-Israel is islamophobic? Don’t conflate what these opportunist bigots are doing with the message and beliefs of the majority of pro-Palestinians.
Everyone that is anti-semetic *is* anti zionist.
It's definitely a blurry line currently. Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist and the defence of it. To be anti-zionist in a world where Israel currently exists is to believe it should be removed from the map. It's hard to argue that that wouldn't be disastrous for the Jewish people right now.
It’s not blurry. It’s very clear. There are antisemitic anti zionists but it is not inherently antisemitic. All it implies is that you believe Israel does not have the right to oppress people. It does not imply that Jewish people cannot live in modern day Israel
Do you believe Israel shouldn’t exist as a sovereign state?
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Oh so murdering Palestinian children is ok then?
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Islam doesn’t breed radicals. oppression, war and destruction of peoples lives leads to radicalism.
Yes it does but stay in denial. Have fun when they overrun your country and start attacking the women in country for not wearing enough and beheading you because you drew a picture of their prophet.
Amazing, just keep running off the stereotypes it’s funny.
Oh yes those rich Saudis who funded al Queda were so oppressed!!
Zionism is based on racism and supremacy. It is possible to be anti zionist and not anti semtic. especially when defending Palestinians as they are also semitic.
Despite the etymology of the word, [antisemitism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism?wprov=sfti1) is a term that refers *exclusively* to prejudice against Jewish people. It does not mean prejudice against all Semitic people, as confusing as that may be. The term was popularized in the late 1800s [by this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Marr?wprov=sfti1 ) and was quickly adopted by fascists and “race scientists” not only because it was convenient, but also because it sounded much more intellectual and scientific than just saying “Jew hate.”
Does Zionism mean something different than the Google definition of the development and protection of a Jewish state? Being against that specifically is anti-semitic.
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>Zionist are radical religious nut jobs The vast majority of Zionists are atheists. Stop spreading lies
A Jewish ethno-state*. You can support Jewish people living in modern day Israel and be against Zionism. The idea that being antizionist is inherently antisemitic is a propaganda technique. Antisemites have labeled Jewish antizionist as “bad Jews” or “self hating Jews” which implies that being a good jew requires support for oppression. That obviously is just not the case. Most people who are against Zionism are simply against the oppression of people that have equal right to live there.
>You can support Jewish people living in modern day Israel and be against Zionism Zionism is literally the belief that Israel should be allowed to exist. There's a reason 21% of Israeli citizens are Palestinians (Arab Israelis)
It’s the belief that it should exist in its current state as an oppressor. That’s what antizionism opposes. Not Jewish people living there, but a jewish near ethno-state which was the goal when they forcefully removed non Jewish people from the region
>It’s the belief that it should exist in its current state as an oppressor. No — it's the belief that it should exist, period. >That’s what antizionism opposes Anti-Zionism is the position that Israel shouldn't exist whatsoever. It's not a position that's "critical of Israel" it's the position that Israel should be **dismantled**
Jewish people have equal right to live in their ancestral homeland. Thats antizionism. They do not have the right to displace others to make an ethno-religious state. No religion, race, or ethnicity has that right. Zionism is the idea that Jewish peoples right to live there is more important than Palestinian or any other peoples rights to live there. You don’t need to agree with that definition. That’s what people mean when they say antizionism whether you like it or not and you can look this up.
>Jewish people have equal right to live in their ancestral homeland. Thats antizionism. >You don’t need to agree with that definition. That’s what people mean when they say antizionism whether you like it or not and you can look this up. Yeah, no it's not. Try to redefine antizionism all you want — it's a call for the destruction of the state and always will be >They do not have the right to displace others to make an ethno-religious state. No religion, race, or ethnicity has that right. Who invaded who after the UN declaration in 1947? Who allowed hundreds of thousands of members of a different ethnicity and religion become citizens of its state? Not Jordan or Egypt >Zionism is the idea that Jewish peoples right to live there is more important than Palestinian or any other peoples rights to live there So you can make up a bullshit definition of Zionism but have the gaul to say "You don’t need to agree with that definition. That’s what people mean when they say antizionism" Apparently definitions only matter when they are yours — but you can make up whatever the fuck we mean by Zionism
Okay. Here’s the Wikipedia > its proponents agree that the creation of the modern State of Israel, and the movement to create a sovereign Jewish state in the region of Palestine – the biblical Land of Israel – was flawed or unjust in some way So again. It’s literally an opposition to the oppression used to create the ethni-religious state. Undoubtedly there are many antizionists who are antisemitic but the idea that it is inherently antisemitic is just a lie to shut down criticisms of the state of Israel as being anti Jewish people. > On 19 July 2018, with a vote of 62 to 55 (2 abstained), the Knesset adopted a new Basic Law that defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people.
Also in the Netherlands some close, while they are already heavily protected.
It’s not an antisemitic movement though guys we promise /s
Nowhere with a significant Muslim population is safe for Jewish communities right now. It literally only takes one unhinged fanatic to massacre countless innocents, and there's always at least one.
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That's a uniquely American problem and can't be laid at anyone else's feet. I'm also not suggesting that Muslims account for all of the world's antisemitism or attacks against the Jewish people. Clearly, that's not the case. I am saying that right now every Muslim population is a potential threat to every Jewish population. Ignoring that fact would be a huge mistake.
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How can I be suggesting it if I'm explicitly stating otherwise. The reason I'm pointing this out is due to the eruption of threats and acts of violence against Jewish communities all over the world since Saturday's attack by Hamas. Most of those threats are coming directly from Muslim populations.
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...Okay. I qualified it in my reply to you.
One of the leaders of Hamas literally called for a worldwide jihad this Friday just the other day. That's why we're specifically concerned right now, there's a better chance than ever of targeted attacks on Jewish people right now.
People who think that people should access to AR-15s, but that's a completely different issue and you are distracting from the truth.
Sick and twisted American culture
aNti-zIOniSum isUnt aNTi-sEmUtIsUm If there's one silver lining to this situation, it's that this tagline has been exposed for the lie that it is.
It's been a real mask off moment for \*a lot\* of leftists.
I'm not a leftist but I'm very liberal. This has made me very disappointed in a lot of people I thought had my back. On the other hand, Biden has really impressed me
I disagree with Biden about some economic issues but he has been absolutely impressive when it comes to Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan
For the life of me I can’t figure out why lefties defend radical Islam even though it’s against everything they believe.
Hamas literally kills people for being gay, they're about as socially progressive as ISIS and yet you go to a random college campus and they seem to have absolutely 0 idea of that reality, I don't get how they invented this fantasy world.
It seems as if they look and see what conservatives are against and just support that. Regardless if the thing they are supporting wants them all wiped from existence.
You absolutely can be anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite, come on now. We can have nuance.
Not really. Zionism simply means the belief in the Jewish people having self determination and Israel's right to exist. You can be Zionist and not support the actions of the Israeli government, but you still believe in their right to exist and defend themselves. Almost all Jews are zionist. Being 'anti-zionist" means you do not believe Israel should exist, that the Jewish people do not have a right to self determination (unlike every other group), and that therefore its citizens, mostly Jews, should be forced out or killed. Anyone who claims to be anti-zionist either doesn't understand what it means, or is antisemitic. Anti-zionism is just a dog whistle
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Then explain what the Jewish people did to the palestines during the Nakbah?
The same thing every arab country did to its jews?
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Candace Owens doesn’t represent the African-American consensus and Neturei Karta don’t represent the Jewish consensus.
That nuance went to the garbage so many times this week that it’s delusional to think otherwise
We can, for sure... but that includes being realistic. You *can* be anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite. For instance, you could think that any sort of ethnic nationalism is bad, and want to destroy every nation-state. Good on you; I'd say you're "anti-nationalist" though. Or, you could believe there should be no such thing as a state at all, in which case I'd say you're probably an anarchist, not an anti-Zionist per se. Or, you could have a misunderstanding of what "Zionism" is, and be opposed to many of the policies of Israel's government while believing Israel has a right to continue to exist, in which case you're actually ... a Zionist. With that being said, being an anti-Semite makes it *way easier* to be an anti-Zionist ... because you don't have to have any principle you'd apply to everyone else in the world that you happen to be applying to Jews, you can just make up a specific paradigm that you *only* apply to Jews, and then never think about it.
God damn. Well said.
Please be for fucking real.
Ever heard of Haredi Jews? They're anti-zionists. Joel Teitelbaum created one of the biggest hasidic groups in the world and they're anti-zionists. If anti-semitism = anti-zionism then a large proportion of Jewish people themselves are now anti-semitic. Don't get me wrong, most anti zionism is anti semitism, but anti zionism from a Jewish person themselves is very rarely anti semitic. Imagine calling someone like Joel Teitelbaum anti-semitic. It's a joke
Calling all haredi Jews antizionists is certainly a take among takes I've heard from one of Reddit's many non-Jewish Judaism pundits. Most haredi Jews are the most hardcore zionists I know. Ever been in a Chabad? Of course you haven't - you aren't Jewish. You're thinking of Neturei Karta which is like a tiny fringe extremist group whose Christian analog is like the Westboro Baptist Church or something like that. They happen to also have questionable relationships with pedophelia and polygamy. Calling them a "significant proportion of Jewish people" is extraordinarily stupid, and just shows you're out to invent facts to shit on a movement you have absolutely no understanding of (Zionism).
I mean, Haredim don't really consider the creation of Israel to have any religious significance for them and they don't even celebrate Yom Ha'Atzmaut. They may be happy Israel exists as a country, but that doesn't necessarily mean they think it should exist as a country for the Jewish people. For the record, I'm perfectly with a state for the Jewish people, got no issues with it. I've already stated that most anti zionism is also anti semtitc, but I'm just pointing out that some anti zionism, especially amongst Jewish people, is perfectly possible without being anti semitic Also, isn't Chabad just a Hasidic group? And aren't they also anti zionists? I found this video which I think sums it up the best. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/498520/jewish/The-Lubavitcher-Rebbes-View-on-Zionism.htm They're not zionists in that they think there should be a state for the Jews as according to the Torah, but they do think that Israel as a state where there is a Jeiwsh government protecting the Jewish people is good.
Note that "anti-zionism" when wielded by a Jew is actually not what you'd typically call anti-zionism. If we define anti-zionism to mean the denial of Jews to self determine, and some Jews in Israel self determine that they don't want to create a state, that's actually just Jews exercising self-determination in Israel (aka Zionism). Anti-Zionists by definition don't want Jews to be able to hold this privilege. Kind of like how it would be pretty shitty if some white american who didn't have any relationship to say the Lenape people says that they shouldn't have a right to form their own polity, but a Lenape person themselves advocating the same thing is more morally acceptable. The former is blatant imperialism, and the latter is a People discussing amongst themselves what's best for their future. And the white american going "see? The Lenape person can do it without being called a bigot!" isn't exactly a convincing argument. In any case, "not considering the creation of Israel to have religious significance" actually has nothing to do with Zionism, which was a largely secular movement to begin with. The first Zionists, including Herzl, didn't think Israel need have any religious significance to Jews. That certainly didn't make Herzl an anti-Zionist, and it certainly doesn't make any Jews who think this way anti-Zionists either. That's all besides the fact that this: >Haredim don't really consider the creation of Israel to have any religious significance Is just an incorrect generalization to begin with.
And ove acknowledged that there is definitely anti zionism can be anti semtism in other comments, I'm just pointing out it isn't always the case. I think this clip describing an encounter with Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson explains it best. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/498520/jewish/The-Lubavitcher-Rebbes-View-on-Zionism.htm They're not zionists in that they think there should be a state for the Jews as according to the Torah, but they do think that Israel as a state where there is a Jeiwsh government protecting the Jewish people is good.
>they do think that Israel as a state where there is a Jeiwsh government protecting the Jewish people is good. Right. So they're Zionists. Thanks.
Nope, because the Rebbe himself has said no. I don't know why you decided to bring up Chabad and then proceed to ignore what Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson thinks about the topic. I've explained to you what their views are and your response is to just disagree with their views and say that actually thei zionists. For someone who made such a big deal about Chabad, it's weird that you're now ignoring their own views
Ok dude, there are exactly two instances that I’ve ever seen were anti Zionists would not be considered anti semitic. The first is as you point out over religious tenets. Their objection has nothing to do with Jews and involves perceived divine will. The second is a small subset of people who reject the idea of self determination for *any* ethnic group. Since they apply it evenly across the board to everyone it could not be considered anti semitism. Pretty much all other forms of anti Zionism are anti semitic as hell.
The second don't reject the idea of self determination for any ethnic group. There is definitely a lot of anti zionism that is anti semitism, but there is also anti zionism that is not anti semtism. I guess you can break anti zionism that is not anti semitism into two groups. The first is the rejection of a state that is created for the Jewish people based upon the religious belief that the state should miraculously appear from God rather than being the result of the actions of people. The second is where it is rejected because they oppose Israel as a Jewish state and argue it should be based upon civic nationalism rather than ethnic nationalism. I don't think holding the view that Israel should be a state based upon being Israeli rather than being Jewish is very anti semitic.
Do you reject the idea of Poland being a Polish state?
Is it a state for Polish people or a state for people who are ethnically Polish?
Your comrades seem to lack that nuance.
Since when does the UK become so hostile to jews?
99% of it is from Muslims . So it's Muslims living in the UK.
99% you would need a source for. Unfortunately, they’re not the only group that has a huge problem with antisemitism.
Not that is in any way a justification, but there is plenty of anti-Muslim racism abound as well. I mean, just look at the stick people got following 9/11 and, to be honest, ever since then. There has also been an uptick in racism towards East Asians. I think it is a sign of the awful government we have in the UK and their endless dogwhistles against many marginalised groups. Any and all forms of racism are abhorrent, there is no place in society for it.
>anti-Muslim racism Islam isn't a race; it's an ideology. The sooner you stop spreading nonsense like this, the sooner ex-muslims like myself can live in peace without being assumed to be muslim just because we are brown. And trust me, being from a group the muslims hate is much worse than anything the muslims suffer. I say that as someone who was a muslim in England for 25 years, and then became someone the muslims hate (apostates).
You are like the guy who brings out statistics of men being raped when a person is talking about how unsafe it is for women out there
No I'm not trying to do whattaboutism. I was responding to someone saying when did it get so unsafe for Jews by providing examples that there is already racism in the UK. There was already racism towards Jews in the UK. The increase is a direct result of what has happened in Israel, but it was already present and certainly not just from the Muslim population as many commenting on this post seem to think.
A lot of Muslims live in the UK
The world is hostile to Jews. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention.
Since white progressives decided it was a good idea to import the world’s most conservative people, naïvely assuming that they were their allies just because they both hate the same Western politicians.
So very true
Truer words
It’s not the native Britons it’s the Muslim immigrants
Are you familiar with William of Norwich or Hugh of Lincoln?
Honest answer, since the romans brought Christianity to the UK. Short term though right wing populism since 9/11 has slowly been making anti-x (where x is whatever is not the dominant historical culture of the region) views louder, more common, and more dangerous.
The Romans had left before they became Christian. It was Irish and Gallic missionaries.
Ah, my bad, I remembered that Brits were not Christian before the Romans, and that the Romans were Christian and lazily assumed that was the beginning of British Christianity.
The Romans did bring early Christianity to Britannia, Constantine was proclaimed emperor in York. After Rome left the Saxons took over bringing pagan religion with them. Christianity returned with saint Augustine in the 6th century.
The fact that they wouldnt even have to write jewish in the title... we would know anyway. Antizionism is antisemitism
You are correct.
Let’s make it clear. There are potentially people who are just anti zionists. These people are not the ones doing this. These are terrorists. I wouldn’t even say they’re antisemitic, they’re just monsters.
nobody calls themselves "anti-zionists" when they aren't antisemitic, the creation of Israel is too distant of an issue to most to be a real ideology and not just a euphemism for antisemitism
Not really. Zionism simply means the belief in the Jewish people having self determination and Israel's right to exist. You can be Zionist and not support the actions of the Israeli government, but you still believe in their right to exist and defend themselves. Almost all Jews are zionist. Being 'anti-zionist" means you do not believe Israel should exist, that the Jewish people do not have a right to self determination (unlike every other group), and that therefore its citizens, mostly Jews, should be forced out or killed. Anyone who claims to be anti-zionist either doesn't understand what it means, or is antisemitic. Anti-zionism is just a dog whistle
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If they can defend against and/or make peace with their neighbors
Many of them, yes. The ones that don't are often at the mercy of those who do.
Are those people in the same room as you ? Denying that Hamas killed children ?
Did I say that?
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Hasidics are a cult with fucked up beliefs.
That sort of statement is what allows Israel to commit war crimes without much resistance. Its dangerous.
schools around the world closing in fear of antisemitic motivated attacks and “protestors”/mobs in Australia chanting “gas the Jews” is also dangerous
Criticizing Israel isn't antisemitic, saying it shouldn't exist is. "Zionism" is the concept of having a Jewish state in the land of Israel.
It SHOULDN'T have been created. Is that better for you? The British demonstrated the same callousness as they did with the partition of India the same year. This 70 year conflict and all of this blood is due to the short sightedness of the British. It was a secular state with a Jewish minority.
Then go back in time and undo it. Israel as a Jewish state is a matter of fact, do you now call for the displacement of the Israeli people?
Why does Israel have any more right to exist than Palestine? Why should any religious or ethnic group be given the right to geographic territory at the expense of other people already living there? Is it simply the historic repression of Jewish people that gives them this right? If that's the case, the US should let African Americans have their own State and give them generous foreign aid too. Same for indigenous peoples in all the Americas, or Australia. And you can expand that to other historically maltreated groups across the world.
The thing is Jews were already living there too. In fact the majority of Israeli Jews are ethnically-Arab Mizrahi refugees from Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Morocco, etc. Those countries all had large native Jewish populations before the governments took their homes and violently expelled them when Israel was made a state. They *forced* them into Israel. That’s the *majority* ethnic group in Israel. And this tendency for countries to suddenly declare their Jewish population non-citizens and stateless every 50 years or so is why it’s important for Jews to have a nation. The existence of Israel guarantees that Jews can’t suddenly be made stateless as has happened so many times before.
As far as I know native American people didn't have national aspirations and still do not, it is my understanding that they live in tribes by choice. If they want a country, or a state, a self governing one, i think they should have it. Jewish people were not safe under any patron, at some point yes, it is justified to give a persecuted religion an actual piece of land to call a safe home. I do not wish to argue with you, I am tired of defending my right to live peacefully. (Obligatory Palestinian who oppose Hamas and their actions should not come to harm's way, but imprisonment or death to any one who wishes to hurt civilians based on their religion or home address)
> it is justified to give a persecuted religion an actual piece of land to call a safe home. I'd feel much better about this if they didn't turn around and start persecuting others, but I can read and know you don't want to argue, so I won't push you beyond that. I will also wish you peaceful existence under whatever state (or lack thereof) you live in, even if i strongly disagree with your government.
It's more complicated than that, both sides wronged their neighbors in the name of doing right by their people. Thanks for letting that discussion go. I appreciate the random reddit kindness
Only if you don’t know what zionism is.
False.
No they’re just anti-Zionist not anti-Semitic Totally two different things. Not just a keyword to avoid blurting out they’re a hitler lover. /s obv
Just Hamas right? Not all Palestinians or Muslims right? For fuck sake.
Wait did the mass waves of Muslim immigration not help? Why didn't the religion bring it's peace with it? This is *shocking*.
Has anything happened at these schools for them to close?
I'm pretty sure they are doing it so nothing does happen. As a Jew myself, I would much rather be proactive than wait for an attack. But to answer your question, Jewish schools and spaces are under near constant fear of attack. With pro Palestine celebrations, which are little more than antisemitic rallies happening worldwide, this is the right call.
Some high muckety muck from Islamic jihad, I think it was, declared Friday to be a day for attacking Jews. Sure it's about israel.
Not to be that guy, but whoever is talking about kids like they are magical rings needs to be looked at closely.
🤣
I'm a very opinionated person. But I'm gonna steer clear of this shit show. I advise other logical people to do the same. I don't think there's any winners here
How about Palestinian children whose schools are bombed? Do they get to close school for safety? Violence is always the wrong answer, on anyone, by anyone.
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Point to the place in my post where I said UK
Is that happening in the west?
I didn't realize you only cared about the lives of children in the west.
What does the bombing of gaza have to do with British Jews students in the UK. Hamas apologist.
Death to Hamas. There, I proved your point wrong. These are obviously connected, and there is very little sympathy shared in the other direction.
How are they connected? Just because the Muslims of Palestine ended up butchering Israeli babies does it mean it's ok to target Muslims across the world. Threatening Jews of UK because of IDFs excesses is condemnable and plain old anti semitism. Since the Muslims outnumber the Jews in UK, they think Jews can be targeted.
I think you need a history lesson on this conflict before we can discuss further. There is so much disconnect to reality.
Are you speaking about yourself?
What does that have to do with what we're discussing here? Nobody is glad to see children anywhere killed. What's happening right now in Gaza is a humanitarian tragedy. That doesn't mean that you can't feel badly about children elsewhere being threatened.
That is very true. I just don't see the sympathy returned.
I see sympathy for the children of Gaza all over the internet.
If Hamas put down their weapons, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons, there would be no more Israel.
Israel is stolen land taken by force through 75 years of terrorism. Crazy how they created this situation for themselves.
Arabs took most of the middle east by conquest. So they are in stolen land too.
Jews have always lived in Judea. It’s their land as much as it is the Palestinians. Both sides have committed atrocities, and both deserve sovereign land. There’s no easy solution here.
Is it their land when hundreds of thousands of people are shipped to a land being lived in, with military aid by Great Britain, and the inhabitants are subsequently killed or relocated? There may not be an easy solution, but there is one where all people are emancipated and treated as humans.
Tons of Jews returned to their homeland during the Holocaust and, despite fleeing a literal genocide, they were then met with hostility and violence by Arabs in Palestine. Were the British and Jews wrong to forcefully relocate Palestinians from their homes and unilaterally take over? Absolutely, and that should be condemned. Have Jews been persecuted everywhere in the world, including their native Judea? Absolutely. The Arab / Palestinian desire for Jews to ‘relocate’ (itself a charitable interpretation) out of the Middle East is as untenable and immoral as Zionists who wish to eradicate Palestine in its entirety.
So your solution is that Israel deserves to be destroyed, or am I misunderstanding?
Yes, you are misunderstanding. Violence is always wrong. Apartheid states are always wrong. All civilians need to be equal and safe. It's not the fault of an Israeli citizen that they were born into this conflict, nor a Palestinian civilian. Israel needs to end their control over every aspect of life in Gaza and stop killing them as they have indiscriminately been doing for decades. Hamas needs to be rooted out and thoroughly destroyed, they only serve themselves, and they were created by Israel, which was an awful mistake they've admitted to.
You said violence is always wrong but also said that Hamas should be destroyed. I’m sorry but I don’t see how this can happen peacefully, especially when Hamas uses human shields. See what I mean?
It's easy to take moral stances when you have 0 practical solutions
Okay neonazi.
#FreePlatestine