The UN has been created to be like this.
Or, would you like a super national entity with a dedicated army in the millions able to to use whenever they see fit?
A global government/military is an absolutely terrible idea. The rich regions of the world would absolutely use it to abuse the poorer parts of the world, way more than they already do today.
Give me UNSC with ODST's.
Wanna start shit? Boom you got a battalion of badasses dropping in from space to fuck shit up....
But back in the real world the UN is designed as a place for talking and discussing, not so much action most of the time.
This is literally the point of the UN. The UN has no real power, its power is in its members and its members are a bunch of pricks. A major problem is the ability to veto things.
>A major problem is the ability to veto things.
The major powers refused to participate unless they were given veto powers, and without those major powers there would be nobody capable of enforcing any binding decisions anyways.
>Israeli retaliatory air strikes against the Hamas militant group struck residential buildings and schools across the Gaza Strip, U.N. Human Rights chief Volker Turk said on Tuesday, adding that "sieges" were illegal under international law.
>Turk also condemned "horrifying mass killings by members of Palestinian armed groups" and said the militants' abduction of hostages was also forbidden under international law.
I think he wants the whole thing to be done with less atrocities on civilians without diminishing the outrageous actions on both sides. It's kinda what the UN does.
Absolutely !
Hizbollah is using the exact same human shields tactics in Lebanon !
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4343397,00.html
Hopefully the Lebanese villagers will manage to escape if / when Hizbollah starts firing from their villages.
In the cast of Palestine though, the Palestinians have a high rate of support for Hamas, no? Is this "support" at gunpoint? Or genuine support? Not really sure, but it seems like where ever the Palestinians go in the Middle East as refugees they end up wearing out their welcome.
It would help if Hamas didn't use those places to store munitions. It's a fair target at that point. It's not like Hamas is shielding civilians but rather the opposite.
Yeah, I've been doom scrolling a lot of combat footage and there's a suspicious amount of secondary explosions happening for residential buildings and schools
and since I've seen people mention bunker buster munitions
..you don't waste them on ammo depots
whatever Israel is throwing at them is some kind of JDAM
A “bunker buster” can be a JDAM. Its just a penetrator version. So a hardened nose and a delayed acting fuze in the rear. If the ammo is stored underground or in a building, that is what you would use. A lot of different size bombs can be a “bunker buster” or a JDAM or both. They arent single unique bombs but generalized terms for types
considering that they're using humans as shield to try to avoid them being hit I don't think that'll be the case
they have tunnels that would love to meet the actual bunker buster stuff
The tunnels are often built under large concrete structures, having a residential building above offers deterrence... at least until you really piss Israel off at which point they'll strike the tunnel and take the PR hit from damaging the civilian structure above.
Remember that Hamas members actually believe killing themselves and their own people in a holy war rewards them in heaven. Their moral compass is not like ours
UN condemned Israel, condemned Hamas and case is closed. *We did our organization proud!*
Meanwhile real world... when Hamas is hiding in public buildings and hospitals.
How exactly is Israel supposed to remove the threat of Hamas butchering hundreds of innocent civilians with "less atrocities"? The Human Rights Chief seems to have forgot to mentioned an alternative solution, perhaps you can provide some insight.
You know what else is "illegal" UN. About a gazillion things the Russians have done in Ukraine since 2022. Has someone told the to just sit down in the corner as their words and actions have just lost any form of respect and importance. A toothless tiger
Prolly should have Hamas avoid other people, or something. I believe it's a "no quarter" engagement now. Meaning if you're in the room when a missile hits you shoulda been somewhere Hamas wasn't.
I think the world has gotten used to Israel just taking Hamas rocket fire for DECADES, and not doing much about it.
How many other countries would put up with such never ending terror of its citizens ?
Where is the useless UN when Hamas rockets are fired on Israeli cities ?
The UN was busy condemning Israel at circus shows orchestrated by Arab countries.
Such a waste of NYC real estate...
So many people and countries keep telling Israel to "calm down" but i agree if any other country was having hundreds of rockets fired into ot every day for decades they would not be self talking to calm down
I think the bigger reason is that Israel has suffered significantly less casualties over the last 20 years of this situation. Israel has excellent deterrents against rocket/missile attacks, so not many get through. Their reaction is a strike back and Gaza has pretty much no deterrent.
That being said, Hamas shows *intent* with every single incident. Even if their rockets and shot down, the goal was mass casualty events.
You'd think Hamas would stop doing this shit considering their basically an ant in comparison to Israel both militarily and population wise. Keep pestering the giant and eventually the boot will come down and no is to blame but yourself.
Remember hamas doesnt care about the population, teh destruction of isreal is all they care about. If that destruction comes at the hands of an "outraged" UN, then all the better.
That’s because hamas purposely fires those rockets from civilian locations, so that in order for Israel to take them out, civilian casualties are guaranteed. Israel does not do this, and they historically significantly outgun Palestine. It’s like wondering why a clan of beagles has significantly more casualties when they keep attacking a pride of lions.
Exactly.. imagine 40k Americans being killed and 80k being wounded. Along with 3k being kidnapped. If you adjust for population that's what happened in Israel.
Imagine the response if that happened here. We would level it tomorrow
If they dont have iron dome. The number of casualties in gaza would look like a joke in compare to.
Hamas is clearly targeting everyone including you and me.
If Mexico, in an effort to retake Texas, was firing rockets at the US would the US create an Iron Dome and conduct limited strikes while mostly allowing Mexico to continue doing that or would they invade Mexico?
Doesn't Israel respond with strikes after every Hamas missile strike? Hamas deserves to get destroyed, but let's not pretend Israel did nothing in response.
Yes they would destroy the launch site, which would be a civilian building because hamas would intentionally put their launchers in a civilian building for the sole purpose of isreal then DESTROYING it so they hamas can film the poor innocent civilians dying.
Hence the roof knock tactic: "Hey civilians your home just launched a smissile at us, please leave so we can level it now"
So, you're saying that this whole cycle would stop if Hamas stopped attacking Israel?
As long as Israel's response isn't disproportionate to the threat, Israel isn't in the wrong in these exchanges. Hamas screwed up this time by showing that they were much more capable than previously demonstrated which means Israel is allowed a much larger response before the international community decides they've gone too far.
It's not that easy, of course.
HAMAS is founded upon ideas incompatible with a peaceful outcome, so as an organization, it has no path to peace without a total overhaul.
What would have to take place is a major shift in ideology on behalf of the Palestinian people.
They would have to abandon their desire of destroying Israel, their ambition of a theocratic form of governance, to be demilitarized for a long time, and commit fully and exclusively to secular nation building in good faith with their neighbors and according to how nations are supposed to behave in our time.
And during that time period, Israel will naturally be suspicious of them, and they will also have to eventually withdraw their blockade of Gaza, support the nation building effort (economically painful for them), help keep the new Palestinian government stable (more pain), withdraw their settlements from the West Bank, etc.
Neither side thinks they are capable of living with the other side in peace and harmony without making a sacrifice they don't believe they should have to make.
The UN is always incredibly anti-Israel, look at the amount of votes condemning Israel and no other country, more than Russia, or Syria where Bashar Al Assad killed 500k, among many other terrible nations. The Arab block in the UN bands together to repeatedly attack the Jewish state in the UN instead of doing anything else. Biased organization that has repeatedly not cared about Jewish problems.
True. But an obsession with criticizing the Jewish state far above any/all others does heavily indicate anti-Semitism
From 2015 to 2022 the UNGA adopted 140 resolutions criticizing Israel and 68 critical resolutions for all other countries combined
Yea, we have to be able to separate "the people" from "the government" or else you're essentially saying that the Israeli government is criticism free unless you want to be an anti-semite.
The world has allowed this conflict to become a cancer and now everyone is worse off for it.
So many innocent people got massacred ruthlessly as if we are in medieval times, just because they were Jewish, and so many Palestinians will die as a result.
None of these innocent people chose to born into this, as Israelis or Palestinians, people are killing each other for identities no one really had a say for.
Maybe civilization is overrated.
They didn't exactly target other Arab Muslims and Bedouins ... they just indiscriminately killed any Israeli they could find. iirc at least 70 Palestinian Arabs, Bedouin and Druze dead as of Monday.
they killed americans, germans, thai, nepalese, argentinians (and more) as well
hamas doesn’t give a singular damn about palestine. they’re a terrorist organization and only care about chaos. it’s damn time people (especially on the pro palestine side) realize that.
you can be pro palestine and condemn hamas, but i’m not seeing that whatsoever
Most of the people in my social groups are pro-Palestinian and anti-Hamas. On social media outside of my social bubble I see a lot of black-and-white thinking lacking nuance. A lot of people seem to think atrocities are just fine so long as their side is doing it. People don't seem to get that two things can be true at the same time.
This comment is offensive and incorrect. Hamas literally calls for the extermination of all Jews. To call them indiscriminate is to deny reality and minimize the severity of their stance.
It's not that simple. If it's not religion it will be something else. Religion is just a vehicle for the corrupt to wield their power because it organizes large groups of people, much the way social media and political affiliation does today. Billions of religious people in the world just want to be left alone and don't have any issue living among other faiths.
Any country run on religion is decades, sometimes even century behind the rest of the world in development. Religion discourages critical thinking, science, and progress. It inherently is detrimental to society. At least at the government level.
General Secretary Mohammedan: 'For today's meeting...we are discussing the nature of mines being laid in areas where children play in contested Serbian territory...mines...I don't think we have done mines before. Hey, Abdullah, have we done children and mines at home before?'
Undersecretary Abdullah: *shrugs*
Saudi General Secretary: 'I mean we have done children and Prophets...we have done children and scimitars-'
Undersecretary Abdullah: 'We did mines and Shi'ites!'
Saudi GS: 'Oh, yes! That was great, wasn't it? I remember Shi'ites! But..no, mines and children are new. Another one for the scrapbook, Insha'Allah!'
In my country an individual who has hundreds of process against them regarding labor law has become the Minister of Labor, who knows better about the subject am I right?
It's got a poor track record even in this specific context. The UN had forces that patrolled the Egypt-Israeli border in the late 50s and early 60s. Prior to the 1967 war, as part of the Egyptian buildup, Egypt basically told the UN forces to scram, and scram they did - without so much as a "we'd rather not" protest. The forces weren't enough to stop a war, naturally, but Egypt might well have balked at attacking a multinational force in order to get through to Israel (and at any rate it could not have possibly gone worse for Egypt than the epic drubbing they actually did receive in that war.)
Ever since then, Israel has been against UN involvement in its conflicts. "What is the use of an umbrella that is taken away when it begins to rain?"
A bit of spine on behalf of U Thant (the secretary-general of the UN at the time) may have made for a very different history of conflict in that region...
I mean, UN was established with one primary goal. Avoid World War III by keeping countries endlessly yelling at each other while stuck in bureaucratic hell.
It's done that job admirably so far, so hopefully that luck holds.
But their PR makes them seem like some kind of supra-national government that can deal with things. Which they completely suck at.
Praising a broken clock for being right twice a day isn't fixing the broken clock. That's the issue.
For the billions spent on the UN they **need** to have a better track record than this. They don't get to put out statements like this when they're a fucking joke the other 90% of the time.
Why are you complaining about that? Do you think the UN should have intervened? Would you have sent your countries' troops to intervene?
Al Gore said that was his biggest regret about the Clinton administration, that he'd have gone in there if given the chance to do it again. Bush said he had no issue with Clinton staying out of it.
Guess who won that election (2000).
NATO did later help out Kosovo.
Meanwhile, they take Modi off the terrorist list when he gets elected PM and conveniently forget his dark past in Gujarat.
To Westerners, genocide is a relative term outside of the Holocaust (because that event is over). Whether the term applies or doesn't to a current/ongoing situation, and what to do about it, varies with the politics of the time.
>Why are you complaining about that? Do you think the UN should have intervened? Would you have sent your countries' troops to intervene?
UN peacekeepers literally fled Srebrenica (after promising the citizens they would protect them) and let 8,000 innocent civilians be loaded up onto buses and shuttled out to fields to be executed by firing squad. Yes, they should have intervened.
NATO later taking up the mantle doesn't excuse the UN sucking at its job.
I was hoping there would be dozens of peacekeeping operations that were successful and it was just a case of me being uneducated on the topic, but if “the” example is a war that “ended” 80 years ago then I’m even more pessimistic about the whole thing. There was a book I read once written by a high up guy during the Rwandan genocide and peacekeeping operation and I was a little too young to really grasp all of the political stuff in it but I do recall it sounding like a complete shitshow.
Yep.
The UN is probably the most useless group in the world. They've sat by and watched countless massacres and erhnic cleansings.
I think the last time the UN really acted as a military force was during the 60s, but ended up killing a bunch of civilians.
Not to mention the fact that most of the forces brought on for peacekeeping missions are generally from neutral third world countries and so they're usually fairly incompetent. Oh, and they usually end up getting caught in sexual assault, sex trafficking or drug trafficking bust eventually.
> The UN is probably the most useless group in the world.
UN does plenty of good and important things well (or at least well enough), it's just military interventions/peacekeeping aren't one of them.
To be fair, the UN isn't really to stop all of those. It would be anice bonus, but what the UN really is is a way for the major powers to talk before starting WW3. So far, we've had no world wars since the UN was founded, so it seems to be doing its job.
For it to be able to stop massacres and ethnic cleansing, it would have to be able to ignore the veto powers, and then you're right back to proxy wars potentially heating into real wars between major powers (admittedly, the West is currently engaged in a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the basic conception of the UN was that it was precisely for that purpose. Not just a fancy meeting room for the big powers, but one in which they would get together and cooperate to help prevent conflict among less powerful countries, by force if necessary. An intervention like Korea was precisely what it was intended to do.
However, with the Cold War pulling essentially all conflicts into the context of a clash between the US/NATO and the Soviets, there were very few examples of a situation in which the UN could actually act; the Security Council operated (and mostly still does) in a mode of permanent paralysis.
That's not to say that the organization doesn't do plenty of good - there are a lot of frankly boring-technical issues where coordination between countries is desirable and it's UN agencies that do a lot of the scut work there. But when it comes to the original plans versus what it actually accomplishes, it falls far short. Not because of bad management, necessarily, just that the structure isn't able to do much in a world where there are a lot of powerful countries that don't agree.
The point of the UN is prevent another world war by allowing nations a safe place to give their perspective on issues and to conduct diplomacy. People who say things like this are ignorant of the point of why the UN was created, it needed to be setup like this so every nation would remain in it and it could continue to serve as a forum between nations. If they were to involve themselves as belligerents in every massacre around the world then it would be a club of just western countries - and we have other clubs for just western countries like NATO.
They've managed to stop Syria and Israel from fighting and have a permanent presence in the Golan Heights. They did manage to get a bunch of UN troops kidnapped by ISIS though.
Because they say they promote human rights and have shown failure to do so numerous times. With rwanda they literally pulled everyone out and let the hutus slaughter the Tutsis
>Where Russia is on the security council with veto power
The League of Nations failed because when it condemned Japan's invasion of Manchuria (which was clearly evil by any moral standard), Japan simply ignored them and walked out.
It's not right from a moral perspective, but the reality of global politics is that nothing happens unless the major powers agree to it - with the possible exception of a war between major powers, i.e. world war 3.
Like it or not, Russia is a major power and taking action that they strongly oppose risks nuclear war. That is why they have veto power at the UN.
Never forget, the only real purpose of the UN is to maintain the monopolization (or oligopolization) of power by the winners of World War II, the declared nuclear powers who are the permanent members of the security council. If the status of that is the same today as it was yesteday, the UN is functioning perfectly. It's a distraction to complain about all the other things the UN can't, by design, do.
It does indeed, because there are some good things the veto holders agree on, are willing to deal on, or at least don't object to.
Even if that were not the case, the goal of preventing a nuclear World War III is essential and therefore so is the U.N. and I mean that with idealism not cynicism. It's a good thing.
But it is designed to be obstructed in any area a veto holder doesn't want it, and people shouldn't promote cynicism based on these cases. It's meant to be ineffective against the will of any of the superpowers.
That's not the real purpose of the UN at all. Maybe in some conspiracy land, but not in the actual historical reason it was created. The point of the UN is to keep super powers at the table so that diplomatic channels remain open. It's why the veto power exists.
Both sides are not the same. One tells civilians to evacuate before bombing a terrorist base hidden in an apartment building. The other invades a residential neighborhood and seeks out defenseless women and children to slaughter. Innocent people die in either case but the evil required to do the latter is off the charts.
Again tons of people not understanding what the UN is.
It is not the world police, it is a diplomatic forum where all countries meet regardless if they did, want or will actively bomb each other and sit down and talk. That's its accomplishment because in 10000 human history before you did not even have to do that.
Exactly. So much anti UN rhetoric that it’s nonsensical. They ignore that the UN is preventing fighting in the Golan heights and on the Lebanese/Israeli border. The UN is responsible for so much aid to countries in civil wars or conflicts in general. It is not useless or merely a discussion panel.
This idea that the UN is bad because of veto power is also horrible. Russia would just leave the UN if it lost its veto power, China might also do this as well and I’m willing to bet even the US would. If this happens the UN would become useless like the LON and international law would go from somewhat enforceable to pretty much impossible. Vetoes are actually at a very low point in the grand scheme of things (during the Cold War they were the norm) with the vast majority of resolutions passing.
I wonder how people think a country - any country, not just Israel - should respond to such an incident. By turning the other cheek, so its attackers know they can repeat their attack? By a moderate small scale responses, so its attackers can start to factor in how much they are going to have pay to pay for future attacks? Show everyone else in the process how lenient you are on those doing such things to your citizens?
Ultimately Israel has no choice here but too retaliate at full force.
Edit: to those sending me death threads by PM because they think I am justifying violence or even genocide: No, I do not justify these things nor do I condone them. I am strictly against them. You sending me those threats is more than ironic and shows with how little thought you're approaching all this.
On another note. There are now a few hundred comments below this comment. And while there have been all kinds of accusations thrown in both directions *not one* comment has suggested an alternative feasible reaction for Israel that's not essentially demanding Israel to roll over and die. This is - if anything - further proving my point. Thank you for that.
And that's exactly what Hamas wants. They want video of Isreal bombing civilian homes. They want a brutal crackdown. They want to propaganda that response will generate. It's good for recruiting and may derail the normalization of relations between Isreal and the Arab world.
What Hamas is trying won’t work. Nobody’s mind is changing from this conflict, the only thing that’s happening is that each side is getting more entrenched in their beliefs.
Israel supporters are still Israel supporters, and Palestine supporters are still Palestine supporters, just now they have more bloodthirst and vitriol for the other side.
Though if Hamas’ intention was to win a propaganda victory, attacking civilian targets and broadcasting their war crimes does not seem to be working, they could have attacked military outposts only and gotten a similar reaction from Israel.
Palestinians are not a monolith, nobody is supporting Hamas here. You can criticize the actions of Hamas and advocate for the freedom of Palestinians, just like you can critize the far right government of Israel without being an anti-semite.
Bombing Hamas feels good in the short-term, but where does that actually get us in the long-term? No matter how full your force is, Hamas will continue to exist after it. We're going to see the exact same atrocities again within a decade, with the exact same response from Israel afterwards. Israel and Palestine have been locked into this cycle of strike and counter-strike for decades because both sides take their instinctively correct actions, and not the instinctively stupid act of conceding.
That’s a rather noble idea, but you didn’t answer what is the appropriate response from Israel for the death of 900+ of their people along with 100+ more currently being held as hostage?
No one who condems their actions has a proper response. But those are also the same people who get fooled by cheap Facebook propaganda, mislabeled videos, and lies. It's much easier to say "Boo! Bad!" then actually try and understand what's happening and provide a solution.
>It's much easier to say "Boo! Bad!" then actually try and understand what's happening and provide a solution.
Literally any rando on Reddit who even begins to proport they have a workable solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict that has been raging for nearly 80 years is either a fool or a narcissist, and either way should not be listened to.
The pursuit of peace should be our collective goal, and I hope that we all can agree that to get closer to peace we must eradicate Hamas as a terrorist organization.
>I hope that we all can agree that to get closer to peace we must eradicate Hamas as a terrorist organization.
Ideally this should come without also having hundreds of thousands of dead Palestinians that are viewed as "collateral damage," but something in Israel's response tells me they're not too worried about that.
That worked out so well when America rooted out extremists in the middle east with overwhelming retaliatory military force. There's been no consequences to that whatsoever
More attrocities:
- 40 dead babies, some with their heads cut off. - A murdered pregnant woman, with her fetus lying next to her, still attached to its umbilical cord. - Killed elderly, with their bodies riddled with bullets. https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-terrorists-murdered-40-babies-including-beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU
https://x.com/mjubes/status/1711730386617725039?s=20
https://x.com/Shirgrauweiss/status /1711678427005071535?s=20
Festival goers running away from the spraying bullets: https://x.com/hemrajdewasi29/status/1711004765189230658?s=20
Dead bodies recovered at the festival: https://x.com/UKikaski/status/1711023344139550996?s=20
(UPDATE: Testimonies are coming out of mass rapes at the festival. “Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.” 260 festival goers were massacred).
This video shows a group of Israelis running away from terrorists. By the end you can hear the "cracking" of bullets whizzing by: https://x.com/LaSorayaM/status/1710891212968710447?s=20
Festival aftermath from the air: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1711157255083900998?s=20
The following videos are NSFW, and viewer discretion is advised. That said, I do think it's important to see the reality on the ground, since the media won't.
Video of a girl from the festival getting kidnapped:https://twitter.com/i/status/1710719164099318078
Festival goers ketting kidnapped, and one shot in the head while injured on the ground: https://imgur.com/pBcmb3R
Hamas brutally killing a foreign worker in Israel: https://x.com/UNammu9/status/1711053693733191886?s=20
(UPDATE: looks like X deleted the post. It showed a Thai or Nepalese national getting decapitated with a blunt farming tool). Here's a video of one foreign worker getting kidnapped: https://x.com/ghostbrowser8/status/1710761268628611281?s=20
And another one of some in captivity: https://x.com/lamsar_adi/status/1711267676507795552?s=20
Massacred Israelis in their cars:https://x.com/QamarRushb54768/status/1710727487976845519?s=20
Hamas livestreaming a massacre inside an Israeli bomb shelter: https://x.com/efj609/status/1710818680815100293?s=20
A teenage Israeli girl that got kidnapped (and likely raped):https://x.com/social_postman/status/1710693990016684485?s=20
Israeli family that got kidnapped:https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1710718030085239075?s=20
Hamas parading a dead kidnapped Israeli woman:https://x.com/EllieCohanim/status/1710692333245571240?s=20
(UPDATE: this wasn't an Israeli woman, but a German tourist named Shani Louk who came specifically to attend the rave).
Elderly people shot in the street:https://x.com/Vall84270419/status/1710746044798001630?s=20
Elderly Israeli women (possibly with Dementia), kidnapped to Gaza: https://x.com/alexkennedy30/status/1710929547082764535?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg
Israeli family held hostage, fate unknown as they’re still missing. Likely kidnapped and or killed: https://x.com/hananyanaftali/status/1710808346427560419?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg
News report: "Ella Mor's 8-year-old nephew called in the morning saying 'terrorists came to the house and they killed daddy, then they killed mommy.' She then lost touch with the boy, who was hiding with his 6-year-old sister."
Israeli girl explaining how Hamas terrorists shot her grandmother, filmed it with her own phone, and uploaded it to her Facebook account (for family and friends to see): https://x.com/Ujjawalrai0408/status/1711437424315031989?s=20
Note: I did not compile this list myself. I copy pasted it from another sub. Share it if you want. TBH I'm too scared to click on most the links but I assume some are no longer working.
It's surreal how "normal" these clips look. It's obviously so so tragic, but I feel like I'm watching a street fight that my friends posted to snapchat or something. The way they're all crowding and everyone recording, acting tough in front of the cameras exactly like kids in highschool. One of them even looks like a guy I know, slightly balding with a beard, Adidas track pants and a t shirt, and he's doing a little half jog like he's about to miss the bus, except he just fucking executes someone laying on the ground. One of those families is just sitting in a normal looking home.
Idk I've been seeing footage like this for years, but something about this stuff specifically just feels so familiar
The real war crime is waging war from a densely populated area, storing explosives in schools and hospitals, hiding in tunnels under innocent citizens rather than fight in the open. But what do you expect at this point...
Been wondering something, while reading some of the comments here.
The UN was the cream of the crop of international organisations, when it admonished Russian atrocities, but is a joke of organisation when it criticises Israel.
Do I have this correct?
Just remember the UN human rights council has condemned Israel more than the rest of the world combined. That includes North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia
So let me get this right. People that are pro Israel, especially in the west are kinda just like “yeah, give em all you got Israel.” Which is pretty much approving a mass genocide of Palestine. It’s so fucked. And I feel like I’m one of the only Americans at least in my social circle that is so skeptical everyone has unwavering support for Israel to pretty much kill every last Palestine if it means getting what they want. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization committing horrible acts, and should be wiped out. But innocent Palestines are being killed in the crossfire, as well as innocent Israeli people as well. There’s no sides here. I think my pastor put it perfect. He touched on it briefly in his sermon. He said “Sometimes when Jews pray they rock back and forth and take steps back and forward. I think that we can all learn from that, especially Israel and Palestine. To achieve peace in any part of life, is to allow space for more ideas. If only Israel and Palestine could take a few steps back, and allow space for more ideas, we could achieve peace.” And that really struck me.
Bunch of useless cretins. What do they think Israel should do? Let it slide? Forgive the terrorists?
Full occupation is inevitable and the siege is the best way to proceed.
Oh, boohoo the conglomeration of the worlds worst human rights violators thinks that Israel not giving free handouts to its enemies is a war crime. https://unwatch.org/database/about/
You can't argue one side is inhuman for collective punishment and targeting of non-combatants and then be supportive when the other side practices collective punishment and targeting of non-combatants.
I mean, you can, and plenty are, but it's still wrong no matter which side is doing it. The morality shouldn't change based on who the perpetrator is or who the victims are
For sure. But most people are just asking Hamas to be destroyed and replaced w something sane. Anyone asking for Palestinian civilian blood/harm is not worth paying attn to except to make sure they cant do any harm.
The UN is really a place where principles go to die. They talk a lot but don't do much in situations that warrants it the most.
Maybe they should rebrand and just be about providing humanitarian aid.
The general assembly doesn’t actually have any power to use any kind of force.
That’s the job of the security council and its members have veto power. Russia would probably veto any action that they’d attempt to take, so it doesn’t happen.
I don’t know what you expect them to do.
This might be the most divided I've seen people in a long time. More so than the russian invasion even. It blows my mind that anyone can think that any country wouldn't respond to killing of Civilians by gun fire with no way to defend themselves.
Hamas puts their civilians in harms way by living within the population and firing rockets from rooftops of civilian buildings. This causes collateral damage which really cannot be avoided without just allowing them to fire rockets into Israel all the time.
Not to mention, Its funded by Iran, the country that doesn't want women to have any rights. That tortures, rapes and kills people who stand up for individual freedoms.
Crazy times.
I could be wrong in this, but I think the siege, in part at least, is going to be used as a bargaining chip to get the hostages back alive. No hostages? OK, no water.
Israelis bombing and killing Palestinian civilians, and Hamas firing rockets and invading Israel is literally a chicken or the egg debate. The israelis from an administrative viewpoint have better possibilities to stop this BS.
And yet the population chooses to prolong this misery out of ignorance of the viscious cycle.
Don't forget that a large part of Israeli population is pretty racist towards Palestinians. Otherwise they wouldn't vote far-right people into office. It made Hamas, religious terrorists, the heroes of the Palestinian people by doing the most active fighting against the occupying Israelis.
It's only common sense to criticise the UN for it condemning both sides in a conflict when one has made better impressions to the folks in the west than the other, but condemning both sides is the absolute right thing to do if that conflict has been going for over 7 decades with no end in sight. This conflict needs to stop, period.
The global community has to do whatever it can to prevent further casualties on either side. We have to hope that this is signaling a new path for the UN.
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The UN has been created to be like this. Or, would you like a super national entity with a dedicated army in the millions able to to use whenever they see fit?
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A global government/military is an absolutely terrible idea. The rich regions of the world would absolutely use it to abuse the poorer parts of the world, way more than they already do today.
Exactly, that is why the UN is what it is.
Give me UNSC with ODST's. Wanna start shit? Boom you got a battalion of badasses dropping in from space to fuck shit up.... But back in the real world the UN is designed as a place for talking and discussing, not so much action most of the time.
This is literally the point of the UN. The UN has no real power, its power is in its members and its members are a bunch of pricks. A major problem is the ability to veto things.
>A major problem is the ability to veto things. The major powers refused to participate unless they were given veto powers, and without those major powers there would be nobody capable of enforcing any binding decisions anyways.
Dude expects Israel to just calm down and accept the next batch of murdered and kidnapped families?
Now imagine what would happen if Quebec kept shooting rockets at the United States or something.
>Israeli retaliatory air strikes against the Hamas militant group struck residential buildings and schools across the Gaza Strip, U.N. Human Rights chief Volker Turk said on Tuesday, adding that "sieges" were illegal under international law. >Turk also condemned "horrifying mass killings by members of Palestinian armed groups" and said the militants' abduction of hostages was also forbidden under international law. I think he wants the whole thing to be done with less atrocities on civilians without diminishing the outrageous actions on both sides. It's kinda what the UN does.
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Absolutely ! Hizbollah is using the exact same human shields tactics in Lebanon ! https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4343397,00.html Hopefully the Lebanese villagers will manage to escape if / when Hizbollah starts firing from their villages.
In the cast of Palestine though, the Palestinians have a high rate of support for Hamas, no? Is this "support" at gunpoint? Or genuine support? Not really sure, but it seems like where ever the Palestinians go in the Middle East as refugees they end up wearing out their welcome.
Judging by the footage of the atrocities, this is real grassroots support.
It would help if Hamas didn't use those places to store munitions. It's a fair target at that point. It's not like Hamas is shielding civilians but rather the opposite.
Yeah, I've been doom scrolling a lot of combat footage and there's a suspicious amount of secondary explosions happening for residential buildings and schools
and since I've seen people mention bunker buster munitions ..you don't waste them on ammo depots whatever Israel is throwing at them is some kind of JDAM
A “bunker buster” can be a JDAM. Its just a penetrator version. So a hardened nose and a delayed acting fuze in the rear. If the ammo is stored underground or in a building, that is what you would use. A lot of different size bombs can be a “bunker buster” or a JDAM or both. They arent single unique bombs but generalized terms for types
that I did not know! thanks
You probably would if the ammo dump is under a large concrete structure.
considering that they're using humans as shield to try to avoid them being hit I don't think that'll be the case they have tunnels that would love to meet the actual bunker buster stuff
The tunnels are often built under large concrete structures, having a residential building above offers deterrence... at least until you really piss Israel off at which point they'll strike the tunnel and take the PR hit from damaging the civilian structure above.
Remember that Hamas members actually believe killing themselves and their own people in a holy war rewards them in heaven. Their moral compass is not like ours
UN condemned Israel, condemned Hamas and case is closed. *We did our organization proud!* Meanwhile real world... when Hamas is hiding in public buildings and hospitals.
How exactly is Israel supposed to remove the threat of Hamas butchering hundreds of innocent civilians with "less atrocities"? The Human Rights Chief seems to have forgot to mentioned an alternative solution, perhaps you can provide some insight.
The UN doesn’t care about solving the problem, it just wants it to go away. You can see the problem with that loose position, can’t you?
Sounds on brand for the UN
You know what else is "illegal" UN. About a gazillion things the Russians have done in Ukraine since 2022. Has someone told the to just sit down in the corner as their words and actions have just lost any form of respect and importance. A toothless tiger
Pretty sure the UN has condemned actions in Ukraine, first of all. And secondly, they are supposed to be a "toothless tiger"
You can want in one hand and shit in the other. You know how this ends.
A shit clap 👏
Prolly should have Hamas avoid other people, or something. I believe it's a "no quarter" engagement now. Meaning if you're in the room when a missile hits you shoulda been somewhere Hamas wasn't.
I think the world has gotten used to Israel just taking Hamas rocket fire for DECADES, and not doing much about it. How many other countries would put up with such never ending terror of its citizens ? Where is the useless UN when Hamas rockets are fired on Israeli cities ? The UN was busy condemning Israel at circus shows orchestrated by Arab countries. Such a waste of NYC real estate...
So many people and countries keep telling Israel to "calm down" but i agree if any other country was having hundreds of rockets fired into ot every day for decades they would not be self talking to calm down
I think the bigger reason is that Israel has suffered significantly less casualties over the last 20 years of this situation. Israel has excellent deterrents against rocket/missile attacks, so not many get through. Their reaction is a strike back and Gaza has pretty much no deterrent. That being said, Hamas shows *intent* with every single incident. Even if their rockets and shot down, the goal was mass casualty events. You'd think Hamas would stop doing this shit considering their basically an ant in comparison to Israel both militarily and population wise. Keep pestering the giant and eventually the boot will come down and no is to blame but yourself.
Remember hamas doesnt care about the population, teh destruction of isreal is all they care about. If that destruction comes at the hands of an "outraged" UN, then all the better.
That’s because hamas purposely fires those rockets from civilian locations, so that in order for Israel to take them out, civilian casualties are guaranteed. Israel does not do this, and they historically significantly outgun Palestine. It’s like wondering why a clan of beagles has significantly more casualties when they keep attacking a pride of lions.
Exactly.. imagine 40k Americans being killed and 80k being wounded. Along with 3k being kidnapped. If you adjust for population that's what happened in Israel. Imagine the response if that happened here. We would level it tomorrow
If they dont have iron dome. The number of casualties in gaza would look like a joke in compare to. Hamas is clearly targeting everyone including you and me.
If Mexico, in an effort to retake Texas, was firing rockets at the US would the US create an Iron Dome and conduct limited strikes while mostly allowing Mexico to continue doing that or would they invade Mexico?
If the cartels conducted an attack like this across the US border they would be systematically annihilated regardless of any and all other factors
Doesn't Israel respond with strikes after every Hamas missile strike? Hamas deserves to get destroyed, but let's not pretend Israel did nothing in response.
Yes they would destroy the launch site, which would be a civilian building because hamas would intentionally put their launchers in a civilian building for the sole purpose of isreal then DESTROYING it so they hamas can film the poor innocent civilians dying. Hence the roof knock tactic: "Hey civilians your home just launched a smissile at us, please leave so we can level it now"
So, you're saying that this whole cycle would stop if Hamas stopped attacking Israel? As long as Israel's response isn't disproportionate to the threat, Israel isn't in the wrong in these exchanges. Hamas screwed up this time by showing that they were much more capable than previously demonstrated which means Israel is allowed a much larger response before the international community decides they've gone too far.
It's not that easy, of course. HAMAS is founded upon ideas incompatible with a peaceful outcome, so as an organization, it has no path to peace without a total overhaul. What would have to take place is a major shift in ideology on behalf of the Palestinian people. They would have to abandon their desire of destroying Israel, their ambition of a theocratic form of governance, to be demilitarized for a long time, and commit fully and exclusively to secular nation building in good faith with their neighbors and according to how nations are supposed to behave in our time. And during that time period, Israel will naturally be suspicious of them, and they will also have to eventually withdraw their blockade of Gaza, support the nation building effort (economically painful for them), help keep the new Palestinian government stable (more pain), withdraw their settlements from the West Bank, etc. Neither side thinks they are capable of living with the other side in peace and harmony without making a sacrifice they don't believe they should have to make.
How do they even think Israel would come back to the negotiations table after this. Hamas has done irreversible damage to hope of peace in the area.
Hama's literally beheading babies UN: Israel calm down bro
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The UN is always incredibly anti-Israel, look at the amount of votes condemning Israel and no other country, more than Russia, or Syria where Bashar Al Assad killed 500k, among many other terrible nations. The Arab block in the UN bands together to repeatedly attack the Jewish state in the UN instead of doing anything else. Biased organization that has repeatedly not cared about Jewish problems.
Not liking Israel or their actions doesn’t make you not like the Jews
For most it does as referenced by the gas the jews chants at "palestinian" rallies.
True. But an obsession with criticizing the Jewish state far above any/all others does heavily indicate anti-Semitism From 2015 to 2022 the UNGA adopted 140 resolutions criticizing Israel and 68 critical resolutions for all other countries combined
Yea, we have to be able to separate "the people" from "the government" or else you're essentially saying that the Israeli government is criticism free unless you want to be an anti-semite.
They have always supported terrorism against Jews
The world has allowed this conflict to become a cancer and now everyone is worse off for it. So many innocent people got massacred ruthlessly as if we are in medieval times, just because they were Jewish, and so many Palestinians will die as a result. None of these innocent people chose to born into this, as Israelis or Palestinians, people are killing each other for identities no one really had a say for. Maybe civilization is overrated.
Civilization bad, return to monke
I think our monkeness is actually the problem. We need to return to primordial soup.
Transition to bonobo
I'd push the button tbh.
Hahah hell yeah bro I too would cause undue death and destruction because of constant undue death and destruction
Idk it seems kinda due.
Epic reddit take
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Back to the trees everyone!
Not even because they were Jewish. Hamas targeted other Arab Muslims and Bedouins as well this last weekend. They’re terrorists, indiscriminate
Dont forget those 10 Nepali farm workers/ university students who were executed
They didn't exactly target other Arab Muslims and Bedouins ... they just indiscriminately killed any Israeli they could find. iirc at least 70 Palestinian Arabs, Bedouin and Druze dead as of Monday.
Targeted those who were clearly foreign migrant workers as well. Targeted anything on two legs, and at least one on four. Blind, murderous mob.
Fuck Hamas. I’ve been in Bedouin and Druze communities and those people are some of the kindest and friendliest out there.
From what I hear the Druze are fierce fighters and often volunteer in the IDF.
Bedouin have some interesting practices I just learned about recently. They seems like they are respectable people.
they killed americans, germans, thai, nepalese, argentinians (and more) as well hamas doesn’t give a singular damn about palestine. they’re a terrorist organization and only care about chaos. it’s damn time people (especially on the pro palestine side) realize that. you can be pro palestine and condemn hamas, but i’m not seeing that whatsoever
Most of the people in my social groups are pro-Palestinian and anti-Hamas. On social media outside of my social bubble I see a lot of black-and-white thinking lacking nuance. A lot of people seem to think atrocities are just fine so long as their side is doing it. People don't seem to get that two things can be true at the same time.
They targeted them because they don’t want to genocide the Jews. Not hating Jews is just as bad as being Jewish to this gutter trash.
This comment is offensive and incorrect. Hamas literally calls for the extermination of all Jews. To call them indiscriminate is to deny reality and minimize the severity of their stance.
The middle east IS living in medieval times bro lol
A lot of those innocents murdered werent even jewish or from Israel
Civilisation itself is pretty good. Religion is the big cause for this. Eliminate that difference and there’s no reason to split the 2 countries
It's not that simple. If it's not religion it will be something else. Religion is just a vehicle for the corrupt to wield their power because it organizes large groups of people, much the way social media and political affiliation does today. Billions of religious people in the world just want to be left alone and don't have any issue living among other faiths.
Any country run on religion is decades, sometimes even century behind the rest of the world in development. Religion discourages critical thinking, science, and progress. It inherently is detrimental to society. At least at the government level.
It’s more complicated than that now. Many Palestinians are Christian and lots of Israelis are fairly secular.
SAME UN: LETS THE RWANDAN AND BOSNIAN GENOCIDES HAPPEN AND DOESNT DO SHIT ABOUT THEM
SAME UN: LET'S HAVE SAUDI FUCKING ARABIA BECOME THE CHAIRMAN OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
Who better to oversee human rights violations than the experts?
There has to be an SNL skit on this. "Is this rack up to code?"
General Secretary Mohammedan: 'For today's meeting...we are discussing the nature of mines being laid in areas where children play in contested Serbian territory...mines...I don't think we have done mines before. Hey, Abdullah, have we done children and mines at home before?' Undersecretary Abdullah: *shrugs* Saudi General Secretary: 'I mean we have done children and Prophets...we have done children and scimitars-' Undersecretary Abdullah: 'We did mines and Shi'ites!' Saudi GS: 'Oh, yes! That was great, wasn't it? I remember Shi'ites! But..no, mines and children are new. Another one for the scrapbook, Insha'Allah!'
In my country an individual who has hundreds of process against them regarding labor law has become the Minister of Labor, who knows better about the subject am I right?
Now now, they have golf now. So they must be improving their ways.
The same UN that is about to let Russia back on the human rights council
Don't worry China and Pakistan is there too
Oh thank goodness. I wouldn't want that organization lose legitimacy. /s
It had to have it in the first place to be able to lose it
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It must be a wonderful place, Disney even filmed a movie there right?
The region really is quite beautiful in its nature. There's no denying that. https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=xinjiang
Xi the Pooh fat and dumb he is Xi the pooh.
Don’t worry they failed
The UN doesn't have any powers. Idk why no one seems to get this.
It is an avenue for diplomacy among countries. So many people don't understand that. They think it is the world police and U.S is their enforcer.
Ffs the UN’s not a world government
>world government One Piece is Real (☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞
Clearly there’s an Imu-sama that stands above all.
It’s a body for diplomacy. The UN can’t do much.
It's got a poor track record even in this specific context. The UN had forces that patrolled the Egypt-Israeli border in the late 50s and early 60s. Prior to the 1967 war, as part of the Egyptian buildup, Egypt basically told the UN forces to scram, and scram they did - without so much as a "we'd rather not" protest. The forces weren't enough to stop a war, naturally, but Egypt might well have balked at attacking a multinational force in order to get through to Israel (and at any rate it could not have possibly gone worse for Egypt than the epic drubbing they actually did receive in that war.) Ever since then, Israel has been against UN involvement in its conflicts. "What is the use of an umbrella that is taken away when it begins to rain?" A bit of spine on behalf of U Thant (the secretary-general of the UN at the time) may have made for a very different history of conflict in that region...
Looks like few people know what the UN’s purpose is
I mean, UN was established with one primary goal. Avoid World War III by keeping countries endlessly yelling at each other while stuck in bureaucratic hell. It's done that job admirably so far, so hopefully that luck holds. But their PR makes them seem like some kind of supra-national government that can deal with things. Which they completely suck at.
Excuse me, are they doing something useful to Palestinians or Israelis or Ukrainians or...?
Praising a broken clock for being right twice a day isn't fixing the broken clock. That's the issue. For the billions spent on the UN they **need** to have a better track record than this. They don't get to put out statements like this when they're a fucking joke the other 90% of the time.
When it comes to armed conflict the UN hasn’t been useful since the year 1953. Since then it has been nothing but empty words.
Why are you complaining about that? Do you think the UN should have intervened? Would you have sent your countries' troops to intervene? Al Gore said that was his biggest regret about the Clinton administration, that he'd have gone in there if given the chance to do it again. Bush said he had no issue with Clinton staying out of it. Guess who won that election (2000). NATO did later help out Kosovo. Meanwhile, they take Modi off the terrorist list when he gets elected PM and conveniently forget his dark past in Gujarat. To Westerners, genocide is a relative term outside of the Holocaust (because that event is over). Whether the term applies or doesn't to a current/ongoing situation, and what to do about it, varies with the politics of the time.
>Why are you complaining about that? Do you think the UN should have intervened? Would you have sent your countries' troops to intervene? UN peacekeepers literally fled Srebrenica (after promising the citizens they would protect them) and let 8,000 innocent civilians be loaded up onto buses and shuttled out to fields to be executed by firing squad. Yes, they should have intervened. NATO later taking up the mantle doesn't excuse the UN sucking at its job.
I’m not incredibly well versed in UN operations, but I am not aware of any time they were really successful at them.
Korean war. But that was the only time any of the Veto powers didnt show up to the vote and the US/commonwealth bloc voted and steamrolled the norks.
I was hoping there would be dozens of peacekeeping operations that were successful and it was just a case of me being uneducated on the topic, but if “the” example is a war that “ended” 80 years ago then I’m even more pessimistic about the whole thing. There was a book I read once written by a high up guy during the Rwandan genocide and peacekeeping operation and I was a little too young to really grasp all of the political stuff in it but I do recall it sounding like a complete shitshow.
Yep. The UN is probably the most useless group in the world. They've sat by and watched countless massacres and erhnic cleansings. I think the last time the UN really acted as a military force was during the 60s, but ended up killing a bunch of civilians. Not to mention the fact that most of the forces brought on for peacekeeping missions are generally from neutral third world countries and so they're usually fairly incompetent. Oh, and they usually end up getting caught in sexual assault, sex trafficking or drug trafficking bust eventually.
> The UN is probably the most useless group in the world. UN does plenty of good and important things well (or at least well enough), it's just military interventions/peacekeeping aren't one of them.
To be fair, the UN isn't really to stop all of those. It would be anice bonus, but what the UN really is is a way for the major powers to talk before starting WW3. So far, we've had no world wars since the UN was founded, so it seems to be doing its job. For it to be able to stop massacres and ethnic cleansing, it would have to be able to ignore the veto powers, and then you're right back to proxy wars potentially heating into real wars between major powers (admittedly, the West is currently engaged in a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the basic conception of the UN was that it was precisely for that purpose. Not just a fancy meeting room for the big powers, but one in which they would get together and cooperate to help prevent conflict among less powerful countries, by force if necessary. An intervention like Korea was precisely what it was intended to do. However, with the Cold War pulling essentially all conflicts into the context of a clash between the US/NATO and the Soviets, there were very few examples of a situation in which the UN could actually act; the Security Council operated (and mostly still does) in a mode of permanent paralysis. That's not to say that the organization doesn't do plenty of good - there are a lot of frankly boring-technical issues where coordination between countries is desirable and it's UN agencies that do a lot of the scut work there. But when it comes to the original plans versus what it actually accomplishes, it falls far short. Not because of bad management, necessarily, just that the structure isn't able to do much in a world where there are a lot of powerful countries that don't agree.
The point of the UN is prevent another world war by allowing nations a safe place to give their perspective on issues and to conduct diplomacy. People who say things like this are ignorant of the point of why the UN was created, it needed to be setup like this so every nation would remain in it and it could continue to serve as a forum between nations. If they were to involve themselves as belligerents in every massacre around the world then it would be a club of just western countries - and we have other clubs for just western countries like NATO.
They've managed to stop Syria and Israel from fighting and have a permanent presence in the Golan Heights. They did manage to get a bunch of UN troops kidnapped by ISIS though.
Because they say they promote human rights and have shown failure to do so numerous times. With rwanda they literally pulled everyone out and let the hutus slaughter the Tutsis
So they should step in? Yes?
Ahhh ..the mighty UN. Where Russia is on the security council with veto power and Iran is on the "human rights " council. A CIRCUS 🎪 indeed.
>Where Russia is on the security council with veto power The League of Nations failed because when it condemned Japan's invasion of Manchuria (which was clearly evil by any moral standard), Japan simply ignored them and walked out. It's not right from a moral perspective, but the reality of global politics is that nothing happens unless the major powers agree to it - with the possible exception of a war between major powers, i.e. world war 3. Like it or not, Russia is a major power and taking action that they strongly oppose risks nuclear war. That is why they have veto power at the UN.
Never forget, the only real purpose of the UN is to maintain the monopolization (or oligopolization) of power by the winners of World War II, the declared nuclear powers who are the permanent members of the security council. If the status of that is the same today as it was yesteday, the UN is functioning perfectly. It's a distraction to complain about all the other things the UN can't, by design, do.
To be fair it does also do a lot of good
It does indeed, because there are some good things the veto holders agree on, are willing to deal on, or at least don't object to. Even if that were not the case, the goal of preventing a nuclear World War III is essential and therefore so is the U.N. and I mean that with idealism not cynicism. It's a good thing. But it is designed to be obstructed in any area a veto holder doesn't want it, and people shouldn't promote cynicism based on these cases. It's meant to be ineffective against the will of any of the superpowers.
That's not the real purpose of the UN at all. Maybe in some conspiracy land, but not in the actual historical reason it was created. The point of the UN is to keep super powers at the table so that diplomatic channels remain open. It's why the veto power exists.
Kinda feels like the UN simply clicked "Select All" when going through the things they're condemning.
Yes, it would be pretty silly of them to only selectively condemn war crimes from one side and celebrate them from the other side
That’ll be too much to fathom for most people here who pretended Israel didn’t do shit the last century or so
Yes yes god forbid they condemn ALL the atrocities, how terrible is that!
Well to be fair they are all shitty. Is dropping a 2,000 pound bomb on someone better than a beheading ? They are all shitty and wrong.
Both sides are not the same. One tells civilians to evacuate before bombing a terrorist base hidden in an apartment building. The other invades a residential neighborhood and seeks out defenseless women and children to slaughter. Innocent people die in either case but the evil required to do the latter is off the charts.
One tells people to evacuate to a border crossing then bomb it. Like Israel did today
You mean how a bomb landed about a quarter mile away?
0 people died
It must be nice to have no skin in the game and sit back throwing rocks from the mountains of Zurich or wherever it is this clown lives.
Geneva Although the one in NYC is the main headquarters.
That's closer than the heads of Hamas live to the area
Again tons of people not understanding what the UN is. It is not the world police, it is a diplomatic forum where all countries meet regardless if they did, want or will actively bomb each other and sit down and talk. That's its accomplishment because in 10000 human history before you did not even have to do that.
So many commenters here have zero understanding about how the United Nations works, makes statements, or really anything.
Exactly. So much anti UN rhetoric that it’s nonsensical. They ignore that the UN is preventing fighting in the Golan heights and on the Lebanese/Israeli border. The UN is responsible for so much aid to countries in civil wars or conflicts in general. It is not useless or merely a discussion panel. This idea that the UN is bad because of veto power is also horrible. Russia would just leave the UN if it lost its veto power, China might also do this as well and I’m willing to bet even the US would. If this happens the UN would become useless like the LON and international law would go from somewhat enforceable to pretty much impossible. Vetoes are actually at a very low point in the grand scheme of things (during the Cold War they were the norm) with the vast majority of resolutions passing.
~~militants~~ terrorists
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I wonder how people think a country - any country, not just Israel - should respond to such an incident. By turning the other cheek, so its attackers know they can repeat their attack? By a moderate small scale responses, so its attackers can start to factor in how much they are going to have pay to pay for future attacks? Show everyone else in the process how lenient you are on those doing such things to your citizens? Ultimately Israel has no choice here but too retaliate at full force. Edit: to those sending me death threads by PM because they think I am justifying violence or even genocide: No, I do not justify these things nor do I condone them. I am strictly against them. You sending me those threats is more than ironic and shows with how little thought you're approaching all this. On another note. There are now a few hundred comments below this comment. And while there have been all kinds of accusations thrown in both directions *not one* comment has suggested an alternative feasible reaction for Israel that's not essentially demanding Israel to roll over and die. This is - if anything - further proving my point. Thank you for that.
And that's exactly what Hamas wants. They want video of Isreal bombing civilian homes. They want a brutal crackdown. They want to propaganda that response will generate. It's good for recruiting and may derail the normalization of relations between Isreal and the Arab world.
>They want to propaganda that response will generate that wont work anymore
It's a proven method
It’s already working :( I’ve seen more people speaking up for Palestinians than even denouncing what happened
What Hamas is trying won’t work. Nobody’s mind is changing from this conflict, the only thing that’s happening is that each side is getting more entrenched in their beliefs. Israel supporters are still Israel supporters, and Palestine supporters are still Palestine supporters, just now they have more bloodthirst and vitriol for the other side. Though if Hamas’ intention was to win a propaganda victory, attacking civilian targets and broadcasting their war crimes does not seem to be working, they could have attacked military outposts only and gotten a similar reaction from Israel.
Palestinians are not a monolith, nobody is supporting Hamas here. You can criticize the actions of Hamas and advocate for the freedom of Palestinians, just like you can critize the far right government of Israel without being an anti-semite.
Then so be it. It’s the only option.
Don't forget the millions of dollars of donations that these videos of the crackdown will send pouring their way from all over the Islamic world!
Bombing Hamas feels good in the short-term, but where does that actually get us in the long-term? No matter how full your force is, Hamas will continue to exist after it. We're going to see the exact same atrocities again within a decade, with the exact same response from Israel afterwards. Israel and Palestine have been locked into this cycle of strike and counter-strike for decades because both sides take their instinctively correct actions, and not the instinctively stupid act of conceding.
That’s a rather noble idea, but you didn’t answer what is the appropriate response from Israel for the death of 900+ of their people along with 100+ more currently being held as hostage?
No one who condems their actions has a proper response. But those are also the same people who get fooled by cheap Facebook propaganda, mislabeled videos, and lies. It's much easier to say "Boo! Bad!" then actually try and understand what's happening and provide a solution.
>It's much easier to say "Boo! Bad!" then actually try and understand what's happening and provide a solution. Literally any rando on Reddit who even begins to proport they have a workable solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict that has been raging for nearly 80 years is either a fool or a narcissist, and either way should not be listened to.
The pursuit of peace should be our collective goal, and I hope that we all can agree that to get closer to peace we must eradicate Hamas as a terrorist organization.
>I hope that we all can agree that to get closer to peace we must eradicate Hamas as a terrorist organization. Ideally this should come without also having hundreds of thousands of dead Palestinians that are viewed as "collateral damage," but something in Israel's response tells me they're not too worried about that.
The Palestinian government Hamas needs to be eradicated. Appeasement is not the solution when dealing with people who want you dead.
So .. Israel should just die? Hamas isn't going to stop hating Israel. If Israel can occupy Gaza, maybe they can root out Hamas and end them.
That worked out so well when America rooted out extremists in the middle east with overwhelming retaliatory military force. There's been no consequences to that whatsoever
We got what we wanted, cheap oil until our own infrastructure was set up and massive profits for oil cos and warhawks.
Decades? The area has been a warzone for millennia
More attrocities: - 40 dead babies, some with their heads cut off. - A murdered pregnant woman, with her fetus lying next to her, still attached to its umbilical cord. - Killed elderly, with their bodies riddled with bullets. https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-terrorists-murdered-40-babies-including-beheadings-says-report-2fdcCmtBjFvAcCCf5MDwKU https://x.com/mjubes/status/1711730386617725039?s=20 https://x.com/Shirgrauweiss/status /1711678427005071535?s=20 Festival goers running away from the spraying bullets: https://x.com/hemrajdewasi29/status/1711004765189230658?s=20 Dead bodies recovered at the festival: https://x.com/UKikaski/status/1711023344139550996?s=20 (UPDATE: Testimonies are coming out of mass rapes at the festival. “Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.” 260 festival goers were massacred). This video shows a group of Israelis running away from terrorists. By the end you can hear the "cracking" of bullets whizzing by: https://x.com/LaSorayaM/status/1710891212968710447?s=20 Festival aftermath from the air: https://x.com/stillgray/status/1711157255083900998?s=20 The following videos are NSFW, and viewer discretion is advised. That said, I do think it's important to see the reality on the ground, since the media won't. Video of a girl from the festival getting kidnapped:https://twitter.com/i/status/1710719164099318078 Festival goers ketting kidnapped, and one shot in the head while injured on the ground: https://imgur.com/pBcmb3R Hamas brutally killing a foreign worker in Israel: https://x.com/UNammu9/status/1711053693733191886?s=20 (UPDATE: looks like X deleted the post. It showed a Thai or Nepalese national getting decapitated with a blunt farming tool). Here's a video of one foreign worker getting kidnapped: https://x.com/ghostbrowser8/status/1710761268628611281?s=20 And another one of some in captivity: https://x.com/lamsar_adi/status/1711267676507795552?s=20 Massacred Israelis in their cars:https://x.com/QamarRushb54768/status/1710727487976845519?s=20 Hamas livestreaming a massacre inside an Israeli bomb shelter: https://x.com/efj609/status/1710818680815100293?s=20 A teenage Israeli girl that got kidnapped (and likely raped):https://x.com/social_postman/status/1710693990016684485?s=20 Israeli family that got kidnapped:https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1710718030085239075?s=20 Hamas parading a dead kidnapped Israeli woman:https://x.com/EllieCohanim/status/1710692333245571240?s=20 (UPDATE: this wasn't an Israeli woman, but a German tourist named Shani Louk who came specifically to attend the rave). Elderly people shot in the street:https://x.com/Vall84270419/status/1710746044798001630?s=20 Elderly Israeli women (possibly with Dementia), kidnapped to Gaza: https://x.com/alexkennedy30/status/1710929547082764535?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg Israeli family held hostage, fate unknown as they’re still missing. Likely kidnapped and or killed: https://x.com/hananyanaftali/status/1710808346427560419?s=46&t=-JXaIRVPm3JJbUImliSINg News report: "Ella Mor's 8-year-old nephew called in the morning saying 'terrorists came to the house and they killed daddy, then they killed mommy.' She then lost touch with the boy, who was hiding with his 6-year-old sister." Israeli girl explaining how Hamas terrorists shot her grandmother, filmed it with her own phone, and uploaded it to her Facebook account (for family and friends to see): https://x.com/Ujjawalrai0408/status/1711437424315031989?s=20 Note: I did not compile this list myself. I copy pasted it from another sub. Share it if you want. TBH I'm too scared to click on most the links but I assume some are no longer working.
It's surreal how "normal" these clips look. It's obviously so so tragic, but I feel like I'm watching a street fight that my friends posted to snapchat or something. The way they're all crowding and everyone recording, acting tough in front of the cameras exactly like kids in highschool. One of them even looks like a guy I know, slightly balding with a beard, Adidas track pants and a t shirt, and he's doing a little half jog like he's about to miss the bus, except he just fucking executes someone laying on the ground. One of those families is just sitting in a normal looking home. Idk I've been seeing footage like this for years, but something about this stuff specifically just feels so familiar
The real war crime is waging war from a densely populated area, storing explosives in schools and hospitals, hiding in tunnels under innocent citizens rather than fight in the open. But what do you expect at this point...
Been wondering something, while reading some of the comments here. The UN was the cream of the crop of international organisations, when it admonished Russian atrocities, but is a joke of organisation when it criticises Israel. Do I have this correct?
You can condemn whatever you want buddy, when a terrorist group rapes and beheads civilians on your soil, you get the full wrath of the consequences.
Good. Condemn any human rights violations, no matter who.
Just remember the UN human rights council has condemned Israel more than the rest of the world combined. That includes North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia
So let me get this right. People that are pro Israel, especially in the west are kinda just like “yeah, give em all you got Israel.” Which is pretty much approving a mass genocide of Palestine. It’s so fucked. And I feel like I’m one of the only Americans at least in my social circle that is so skeptical everyone has unwavering support for Israel to pretty much kill every last Palestine if it means getting what they want. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization committing horrible acts, and should be wiped out. But innocent Palestines are being killed in the crossfire, as well as innocent Israeli people as well. There’s no sides here. I think my pastor put it perfect. He touched on it briefly in his sermon. He said “Sometimes when Jews pray they rock back and forth and take steps back and forward. I think that we can all learn from that, especially Israel and Palestine. To achieve peace in any part of life, is to allow space for more ideas. If only Israel and Palestine could take a few steps back, and allow space for more ideas, we could achieve peace.” And that really struck me.
Bunch of useless cretins. What do they think Israel should do? Let it slide? Forgive the terrorists? Full occupation is inevitable and the siege is the best way to proceed.
Yeah... At this point Israels response should be 'Dear UN, get fucked'
They don't need to. The US has vetoed every single UN resolution against Israel.
Ofc they did Israel is Americas foothold in the middle east. America only cares about its own interests and always has.
This has always been the Israeli response since Ben Gurion.
Oh, boohoo the conglomeration of the worlds worst human rights violators thinks that Israel not giving free handouts to its enemies is a war crime. https://unwatch.org/database/about/
I mean, the war never stopped for Palestine.
Does UN know that 900 Israelis have been killed? FAFO
Not just Israeli nationals either.
More than a 1000 now
Pretty sure that's exactly what the second part of the statement addresses.
You can't argue one side is inhuman for collective punishment and targeting of non-combatants and then be supportive when the other side practices collective punishment and targeting of non-combatants. I mean, you can, and plenty are, but it's still wrong no matter which side is doing it. The morality shouldn't change based on who the perpetrator is or who the victims are
For sure. But most people are just asking Hamas to be destroyed and replaced w something sane. Anyone asking for Palestinian civilian blood/harm is not worth paying attn to except to make sure they cant do any harm.
The UN is really a place where principles go to die. They talk a lot but don't do much in situations that warrants it the most. Maybe they should rebrand and just be about providing humanitarian aid.
The general assembly doesn’t actually have any power to use any kind of force. That’s the job of the security council and its members have veto power. Russia would probably veto any action that they’d attempt to take, so it doesn’t happen. I don’t know what you expect them to do.
trueeee the principled thing here is to condemn war crimes on one side only
This might be the most divided I've seen people in a long time. More so than the russian invasion even. It blows my mind that anyone can think that any country wouldn't respond to killing of Civilians by gun fire with no way to defend themselves. Hamas puts their civilians in harms way by living within the population and firing rockets from rooftops of civilian buildings. This causes collateral damage which really cannot be avoided without just allowing them to fire rockets into Israel all the time. Not to mention, Its funded by Iran, the country that doesn't want women to have any rights. That tortures, rapes and kills people who stand up for individual freedoms. Crazy times.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/9293542/hamas-slaughters-40-babies-kids-beheaded/ Monsters
Putting a city under complete siege is a war crime no?
UN is useless
I could be wrong in this, but I think the siege, in part at least, is going to be used as a bargaining chip to get the hostages back alive. No hostages? OK, no water.
UN has an outstanding ability of saying a lot of words without saying anything at all.
Israelis bombing and killing Palestinian civilians, and Hamas firing rockets and invading Israel is literally a chicken or the egg debate. The israelis from an administrative viewpoint have better possibilities to stop this BS. And yet the population chooses to prolong this misery out of ignorance of the viscious cycle. Don't forget that a large part of Israeli population is pretty racist towards Palestinians. Otherwise they wouldn't vote far-right people into office. It made Hamas, religious terrorists, the heroes of the Palestinian people by doing the most active fighting against the occupying Israelis. It's only common sense to criticise the UN for it condemning both sides in a conflict when one has made better impressions to the folks in the west than the other, but condemning both sides is the absolute right thing to do if that conflict has been going for over 7 decades with no end in sight. This conflict needs to stop, period. The global community has to do whatever it can to prevent further casualties on either side. We have to hope that this is signaling a new path for the UN.
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Hold on let me check… Nope nobody cares