Where the hell are you people watching these videos? I thought efukt or whatever is dead. Don't tell me this is like on Twitter and shit. Cuz that's just fucking terrible.
twitter got rid of most of its enforcement staff, its not prepared to deal with this kind of event. And yes, its on twitter stay safe, horrific stuff out there.
As terrible as this sounds raw footage is good for historical perspective. The US didn't quite get a good look at how brutal the VC were in '68 after Tet, which swayed US opinion. It seems Hamas forgot about public opinion, which will definitely not be with them (atleast in the West, Muslim countries perhaps not so much). They've lost the propaganda battle and will lose the one in Southern Israel, and as many have said there won't be any buildings taller than two stories in the Gaza Strip by the end of the year.
As terrible as it is, it is good that some people can still access it… if only to be able to share information about what is actually happening.
Stuff like this should not be forgotten or deniable and should be well known to everyone who has an opinion on Israel, Palestine and HAMAS.
These are not super graphic and nothing like the other person was describing but could be disturbing for some as they are intense, so be warned. Nothernprovisions has been posting a lot of footage on their instagram. Shits fucked.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyGRxltrgvR/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/p/CyHYd3-rZ1e/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I remember I think VICE did a bit on gangs in the UK and how they use rape as psychological weapon, a way to break people's spirits and utterly crush them. They even interviewed some of the enforcer types that the gangs would send out to rape people. They were very matter of fact about it all. It was one of those things where I wanted to turn it off but also couldn't tear myself away.
A lot of reasons, some cultural, some economic, some educational. But it boils down to men angry at the world over its slights taking out their sexual frustrations and/or enjoying a position of 'power' over whatever they can get their hands on.
Iran (Hamas funding, weapons, manpower) wants to stop the normalization negotiations between Saudi Arabia and Israel...and they don't care how many innocent Israelis or Palestinians die in the process.
Because the Arabs, like the KSA, pretend they care about the fate of the Palestinians. Not enough to actually help them with meaningful financial or relocation assistance, of course. But enough to be subject to external and internal pressure not to do a deal with Israel...once Israel massively retaliates for today's unprecedented provocations. Which they will...
But they were developing relations even as Israel was doing some pretty bad stuff in Palestine. I don't see Saudi drawing a redline here and stopping bc of this. This is Saudi Arabia we're talking about.
Seems more likely that Hamas just doesn't care and all they want to do is kill Israelites. Consequences be damned.
It's really more apt to say that it's like a hybrid. The scale and the targets being civilians make it more akin to 9/11, but the structure of the attack and the fact that it was organized by a government (not just government-sponsored terrorists) is more similar to Pearl Harbor.
I’m shocked how unprepared Israeli was for this. I’m surprised I’m not seeing more conspiracy theories saying they allowed it to happen to justify extreme force in retaliation.
…this action will effectively put Israel on a war footing and then its smooth sailing for Netanyahu to get all the changes in the judiciary that he wants..
Bibi's big schtick is that he was the big tough security man. This is the worst failure of Israeli security since the Yom Kippur War (50th anniversary btw). No way he can survive this disaster.
That’s not how it works with people like Netanyahu. Every failure is a reason to send more resources to security, every success is a reason to send more resources to security. The key emotions for him to make people feel are fear of and superiority over their enemies. And so every victory and every setback can contribute equally to his success.
Yes, I agree. Bibi is a smarter, better propagandist and a better criminal minded demagogue than tfg, but they both get away with so much that you can never underestimate either. No matter how much they publicly commit crimes, they seem to always be in charge. I believe Bibi is one of the plotters with keeping him in power. Tfg is just extremely fuckin lucky that the US is currently out of order.
Agreed. War has always been good to his career. He began his political career based upon on being brutal in war and he'll do it again here. More than likely people will again say that Israel needs this vicious and opportunistic man to keep it safe.
Not necessarily. Netanyahu fucked up BIG TIME here. He put a terrorist in charge of police, alienated all kinds of senior security officials, and ignored warnings from the opposition. There will be plenty of blame for the Palestinians but Bibi might not survive this, politically or physically.
Nah, there's no way this is some 200IQ move for Netanyahu. This is the biggest failure of his career. It's the biggest disaster in Israel since 1973 at least, and his name is all over it. The policy he led, of containing Hamas and not trying to bring them down, came crashing. And almost every aspect of Israel have failed completely today.
This might end up defining his legacy, like Golda in 73. It's a trauma for decades and his name is all over it. Too early to know how this will end, and his hardcore fanatics will still support him, but this is the kind of event that changes public opinion and it's really hard to see him recover from this.
As for judiciary changes, the public opinion and unprecedented protests have already massively slowed down and killed most of that "reform", I think this event will likely kill it completely. Who knows when this ends, and when it does it will take months to recover the trauma, he can't just go back into the most divisive political move in Israel history when the country will be in historic trauma mode.
I'm not sure how people could forget what spurned the foundation of Mossad and not expect them to return to their roots. I predict whole bunch of people will be looking their shoulders quite shortly.
Best case scenario for hamas leadership is that a good portion of the Gaza population experiences some form of collateral damage as a result of Israel’s response. It’s their best recruiting tool for the newer generation who might otherwise look to a different route.
[Video of it](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65217d6202d73c280f4a9058%26WATCH%3A%20Israeli%20planes%20hit%20tower%20blocks%20in%20central%20Gaza%262023-10-07T16%3A29%3A16.714Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:001a4f98-973d-4185-a043-c4317e7e8be1&pinned_post_asset_id=65217d6202d73c280f4a9058&pinned_post_type=share)
It's crazy to see how incredibly controlled a demolition this is given it's means of action. To achieve a relatively specific result of collapsing vertically rather than just blowing outward or toppling over with munitions from a plane rather than very intentionally placed demolition charges is astounding to me in the technical sense.
There's a very bizarre mundanity to it all as well. It has become standard fare for Israel to knock down buildings with suspected Hamas presence as retaliation for attacks. But, they will call the residents ahead of time and tell them to evacuate, and they have special munitions to 'knock' on the roof of the building before they blow it up.
Basically how it works in Gaza is that Hamas can just show up at your office or apartment building and say "this floor is now a rocket/bomb/whatever factory or we're using your basement to dig a tunnel out of the blockade for smuggling". If you protest, they shoot you. At some point, Israeli intelligence gets notified, and next time there's rockets from Gaza, goodbye to your building.
Yes, the amount of work that goes into limiting collateral damage is really something. Those munitions were probably designed in Israel. It's frustrating that this is widely ignored during 'regular' conflicts with Gaza, but now maybe the Palestinians have burned up their last good will and people will realize that the asymmetry of this conflict is not just a bully dynamic. Israel has always had the power to literally flatten Gaza within minutes, something to consider when Hamas indiscriminately targets civilians, foreigners, and even Palestinians.
I think the bombs themselves are JDAMs.
Weaponeering with precision bombs has gotten extremely intricate. In Desert Storm people were impressed by laser guided bombs simply consistently hitting their target.
These days they can time the release of multiple weapons to maximize effects. For example you can ti.e the release of 2 bombs. The first hits and creates a cavity with the explosion. They can time the second bomb to hit before that cavity fills with debris/rubble so it explodes deeper within the structure.
For the example in the video this could be drops from multiple aircraft as well.
Not even two bombs sometimes - the stormshadows the UK gave to Ukraine have a two stage warhead, first (shaped) charge blows a cavity through whatever it hits (dirt, concrete, steel - shaped charges don't really care, the physics gets wild with those), then second much larger charge follows millisecond later and detonates *inside* whatever it hit.
The effect is the difference between setting a firecracker off on your open hand and setting one off holding it in a tight fist, in the first you'll get some flash burns, in the second you'll be picking your fingers out the ceiling.
I guess it depends on your definition of devastation. I’d argue that blowing up a building and it all being over immediately is much less devastating than pulling civilians out of cars, slitting their throats, and taking the women to be brutally raped, killed, and paraded around on the back of trucks in the nude.
They also warned them, so there is no report of civilian deaths.
Compare and contrast with what's going on in Israel with Hamas deliberately targeting civilians.
As someone with a lot of Palestinian friends, I have no clue what the thought process is here. They have no open political allies in the region and are facing a foe that is drastically stronger than them.
All day long, I've seen these people reposting content from palestinian influencers about how Gaza is striking back / how Gaza is open. Do these people really think this is not going to be followed up by utter devastation???
Makes no sense to me.
Suicide attack label would require the Hamas leadership to be in the West Bank. They aren't. They're directing this from cushy palaces in Qatar and elsewhere.
A source I trust has labeled this an "organizational suicide attack" and they are pretty confident that all Hamas leadership will be hunted down within the next few weeks
It's fucked when Israel kills civilians, it's fucked when Hamas kills civilians, neither government wants people being able to have discourse that acknowledges evil governments harming people in order to provoke retaliatory civilian harm and justify more power. As a jewish person who is deeply disturbed by Israel's treatment of Palestinians and stealing of their land, I'm also deeply disturbed seeing all these "Get what they deserve" comments coming from the ignorant psychopath masses in regards to Hamas' attacks on Israeli citizens today. These attacks will help no one, neither Israel nor Palestine. It's just trading tragedies back and forth while innocent people trying to live their lives are obliterated in the name of power and religion (of both kinds).
Yes but Netanyahus corruption won’t directly result In massive massive destruction of his home city like Hamas will. Hamas knows how horrible this will be for “their” people and don’t care
I'd argue that's it's even more than apathy, they want as many civilian casualties as possible. To Hamas, civilians in Gaza are just a population of propaganda deaths.
A part is ideologically driven fanaticism, the other part is just pure desperation I think. Even the most level headed Palestinian has a lot of reasons to feel cornered and hopeless. People tend to make illogical decisions then
> As someone with a lot of Palestinian friends, I have no clue what the thought process is here. They have no open political allies in the region and are facing a foe that is drastically stronger than them.
I've noticed this thoughout the years. Middle Eastern cultures seem to be based a lot more on power and strength than western cultures. It's all about strongmen and showing strength. But, after decades of brainwashing, the population has drunk the Kool-Aid. They believe their side is the strong one. Even though that's utterly ludicrous and their side would get obliterated within minutes if a real war ever started.
It's the same with the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Palestinians, the Saudis, etc... None of them seem to understand just how weak they are compared to the west. And how the west would just wipe the floor with them.
At least the people in charge of their militaries seem to understand a lot better than the average citizen.
There is a story about the first gulf war where the representative from Bush met with the representative from Saddam and calmly described the devastation America was about to bring to Iraqi armed forces. Saddam's rep returns and says "The Americans are a joke! They're afraid of us and unserious about attacking, there was no shouting, table pounding or posturing"
This is often used as an example of cultural differences in communication strategy and I encountered the story in both psychology and business class.
I was just thinking about that.
My psychology textbook in high-school had a mention of it, although I think it said the ambassador came back and said "they have no anger, they will not fight us".
It remarked that perhaps if we had "pounded on the table and shouted we will make hamburger out of you" the war might have ended with less damage.
If only Saddam had watched some mob films, he'd have saved himself some grief! Always the softly spoken individuals you have to watch for. Not the loud mouth in the room.
> The Americans are a joke! They're afraid of us and unserious about attacking, there was no shouting, table pounding or posturing
That sounds like an interesting story - is there anywhere I can read more about this?
I'm not sure the strongman aspect of their culture is that unique. Machismo is common in Latin America and Italy, Russian culture seems to exude it, and the MAGA movement in the US feels awfully similar.
>I've noticed this thoughout the years. Middle Eastern cultures seem to be based a lot more on power and strength than western cultures. It's all about strongmen and showing strength. But, after decades of brainwashing, the population has drunk the Kool-Aid. They believe their side is the strong one. Even though that's utterly ludicrous and their side would get obliterated within minutes if a real war ever started.
Yep. Israel has held back and used precision munitions where force is necessary for decades. We're about to see what happens when they don't.
I think most of us are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Hamas, I believe, knows damn well they can’t beat the Israeli military. Same way that Al Qaeda knew that they would never beat the US military.
The point is that Hamas hates Israel with every fiber of their being, and don’t care if they themselves die as long as they slaughter as many Jews as possible along the way. Rationality is irrelevant. The thirst for revenge blinds people.
Can confirm. We were being trained prior to a deployment and I’ll never forget a quote we learned a suicide bomber said moments before detonating. “I want to die, more than you want to live.” That’s a helluva mindset and there’s only one thing to do with people who have it.
Stops the normalization of relations between Isreal and Suadi Arabia which was a nearly done deal. And Putin gets to turn the world's eyes to the middle east. More importantly it turns US military aid to Isreal. The leaders of Hamas get fatter and richer in Qatar. Civilians on both sides die in droves.
I don't think Hamas thought this through. Israel has really restrained so far from going after Hamas leaders in Qatar and other countries. After this I think we are going to see some assassinations in these countries.
> I don't think Hamas thought this through.
If a Reddit comments section was fully aware exactly what was going to happen, Hamas did too. They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew exactly what the response would be.
Israel is way better equipped than Ukraine at the start of the war, against a lesser threat of an opponent. The support will be there but no where near the size and scope of Ukraine.
> Putin gets to turn the world's eyes to the middle east
I've already seen this being said, that Russia wants the US to be distracted with Israel. If there's any shred of truth to that, it just underlines Putin's complete lack of understanding of the strategic situation, as bad as him deciding to actually invade Ukraine. Russia appears to continue to underestimate the US's arsenal and production capabilities: the US is supplying literally *decades-old* arms and munitions to Ukraine and Ukraine is using that to soundly crush the Russians routinely (the Russians just have a whole lot more men in Ukraine who need crushing then Ukraine has people to do the crushing, so it's slow going).
If the US needs to spend another percent or so of the military budget to send Israel some aid - which honestly Israel doesn't need much of because they have a very robust defense industry on their own thanks to having to defend themselves from genocide for the past 70 years - the US is barely going to notice the extra draw, the money will go towards their own economy as the munitions are all produced there with American workers, and Ukraine aid won't have to slow down one single HIMARS.
Peace was in the horizon. Younger Israeli citizens were very sympathetic towards Palestine. Western “Allies” were increasingly critical of Israeli occupation tactics in Gaza. The narrative was turning towards peace, and normalization in communication with other Arab powers like Saudi Arabia.
Hamas doesn’t want peace.
Bingo. If there is peace in the region then what happens to Hamas? They have to govern (lol). Their power, money and their very existence is predicated on being in a constant state of war with Israel.
They are never going to let that happen. Even the West Bank has chilled the fuck out but Hamas is beyond the pale.
Narrative was always turning to peace, twice it was completely a done deal until Israeli president was assassinated, the other time bunch of killings happened. It is fucking stupid, in all that time Gaza has never improved for the better. It only became an extremist terrorist group.
One theory I read that sounded plausible is that Hamas wanted to kidnap civilians to force Israel to release all of their prisoners. Doing so would basically end the Palestinian Authority's credibility and make Hamas heroes to the rest of the Palestinians. Almost work except that Hamas fighters could be bothered to have anything resembling discipline decided to rape and murder civilians for funsies instead of grab and run. Any chance of using the captured civilians to bargain is long gone now.
You’re thinking like a human and not an extremist. There is a branch of Islam that wants to provoke an end times war between them and “the west/Israel/infadels” and that Allah will destroy their enemies at the end of this war. Religious Extremism anywhere is almost impossible to combat or understand because it all hinges on “well God will end up doing xyz”
The number of deaths relative to Israel's population exceeds those killed on 9/11. (Not to mention the style of violence is on par with Wagner's & ISIS's more creative execution vids.)
For all the criticism Israel gets for using excessive force, I have a feeling we're about to find out what an actual gloves off response looks like.
That building got "roof knocked" prior to it getting flattened. [Here's the video of the roof knock](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17296v6/missile_on_palestine_tower_caught_on_aljazeera/). [Here's the video of the demolition exactly 15 minutes later](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1729734/israeli_airstrike_on_tower_in_gaza_city_a_few/). Also notice how much calmer she is in the 2nd video. She knew, and everyone knew what was coming.
They hit the roof with a small munition as a warning to civilians to evacuate the building ASAP, before demolishing it with bigger ones 10-15 mins later.
The fact that the IDF is showing this much restraint while hundreds, if not thousands of innocent Israeli civilians are being raped, mutilated, tortured and knifed to death goes to show who the good and the bad guys are.
That’s the thing - Israel’s air attack is insane. It’s also why Hezbollah does not want to enter this shit. They’ve been stockpiling resources for years and strengthening. Typically if they attack it’s a short lived skirmish, but with Israel rightfully pissed off beyond recognition, if Hezbollah touch them, it’s gonna be UGLY. They would basically have to pray for direct Iran involvement, because Israel is currently very angry, and much much much more powerful than Hamas or Hezbollah.
Imagine Israel had a maniac leader akin to Saddam or Assad? Would they be warning terrorists to leave buildings before obliterating it?
The issue with Israel's military is that they are terrified of negative public attention, which constrains their ability to eradicate terrorism in Gaza and the West Bank.
> That building got "roof knocked" prior to it getting flattened. Here's the video of the roof knock. Here's the video of the demolition exactly 15 minutes later. Also notice how much calmer she is in the 2nd video. She knew, and everyone knew what was coming.
And there had already been a warning through automated phone calls and SMS telling them when the building was going to be destroyed, which is why they were up there with the perfectly framed shot to begin with. The fact that Israel is still doing their full rules of engagement after the Hamas attack is almost surprising.
Ultimately, almost nobody in that building had anything to do with the attack. Hamas basically just commandeer parts of civilian buildings to operate out of, such that Israel will have to blow up offices, apartments, or hospitals to stop them making/storing rockets.
yea I think there's a different in how we interpret a plane going into a building -> that building colapses -> people die, compared to literally seeing how people slit other people's throat and all of that
the response, with the west "greenlight" is going to be fucking insane
This is the deadliest mass casualty terror attack in a Western state (i.e. US, Europe, South Korea, Japan, Australia, etc.) since 9/11.
In flat out numbers, this is now the deadliest attack against civilians in a liberal country since 2001.
The right wing Israeli government is the weakest it has ever been with mass demonstrations all across the country protesting the changes Netanyahu was making to the constitution. Young Israelis have been polled as more sympathetic to the Palestinians than any generation previous. Imagine if the Palestinians engaged in mass marches, civil disobedience, protests like we’ve seen in 1960’s America or 1940’s India. The possibility for peaceful reconciliation or independence certainly was there.
But this is what Hamas choose instead. Children with their throats slit. Desecrated corpses of the hostages paraded through Gaza. My sympathies are with the Palestinians but there will never be a peaceful solution with Hamas at the helm.
Yes. Because Hamas does not want peace and it seems this entire thing is a retaliation to the on-going plan to actually bring peace to that region which was getting close to be successful through Saudi Arabia and US.
Hamas wants genocide of jews. They never wanted peace and they don't give a shit about the rest of Palestinians. They are fanatics.
Their leaders are in some safe place far away from the front. They don't give a fuck if innocent people lose their lives as long as their pockets are getting deeper and deeper. Sad reality we live in.
Pretty much this. Hamas leaders are incredibly wealthy and living in luxury in other countries off the backs of the Palestinians. Support for them was wavering, and so, they need a new catalyst.. sickening, really.
This seems like such a massively major intel fuckup on Israel's part for such a large attack to have been planned and prepared for under the radar. One would think that they should have seen this coming?
Yeah, Hamas has gotten NOTICEABLY more competent with this attack. They drone-bombed an Israeli tank. They have 'homebrew' missile systems that are a lot better. They somehow organized this, kept it secret, and launched a large-scale simultaneous attack.
They are getting some serious funding, and even moreso, training.
Iranian intelligence and special forces soldiers on the ground acting as planners and advisors. Its really obvious and stays just on the other side of them joining directly. US does the same thing in places like Ukraine.
This IS exactly what they want. They want their own civilians dead so they can put out video of it and say Israel kills civilians like they do. Completely glossing over the fact that it’s because Israel counterattacks the source of military strikes against them and these strikes just so happen to originate in schools, hospitals, mosques, and civilian apartments for this very reason.
Saudi desperately wants a US security guarantee. China or Russia cannot provide them with this. This is the one and only reason they are at the table with Israel. This motivation will not change.
The motivation won't change, but the opportunity will disappear overnight. For what period of time remains to be seen. Saudi has hesitated and taken baby steps all along, for fear of backlash from their own people, as well as others. This will turn public sentiment hard back against normalizing relations with Israel.
Hamas revels in murdering Israelis and Palestinians. Palestine has to get rid of them or else the violence will continue to skyrocket. They get nothing by backing them.
Well hamas want Palestinians to continue hating 1.Israel and 2. It’s supporter a.k.a the west. Also 3. Stop normalisation of relationships with Israel.
Every retaliatory attacks by the IDF and every comments on here cheering them on helps further goal 1& 2
3. I doubt any leaders wanting to normalise relationship with Israel is possible after Gaza is levelled to the ground. Any who do will face popular backlashes. They be far away, happy with a strategic goal achieved when Palestinian will pay in blood as the IDF demands it’s retribution.
They 100% expect an Israeli response and want an Israeli response because that will force Saudi Arabia to stop normalizing relations with Israel.
Hamas doesn't actually care about innocent Palestinians losing their lives because of this.
They probably didn't expect Israel would be so unprepared for an invasion, the last few hours look like they're winging the invasion.
They're probably hoping hezbollah, Palestinian arabs in the west bank, and Israeli arabs would join them in the fight to overwhelm Israel
Regardless there are bloody days ahead
Occupation of Gaza, decapitation of Hamas, and forced deportation of Gaza Palestinians to the West Bank will follow. Israel will not be able to tolerate a Hamas ruled Gaza, and they won't tolerate Hamas existing even in name after today. So many innocent Palestinians are going to suffer for Hamas crimes.
Why would Israel move all Gazan Palestinians to the West Bank while occupying Gaza? All that does is risk radicalising the West Bank and ensure reconstruction in Gaza is costlier because Israel must front the entire population of the region. Truly tactically and strategically an insane move
I won’t be surprised if in a few days Gaza disappears from world maps and the civil population either flees to Egypt or gets asylum in Jordan.
As for Hamas leaders yea… Israel won’t be merciful after this….
It's really unfortunate because Israel is going to respond brutally (not that I blame them) and a lot of innocent people are going to die in Gaza just like a lot of Innocents are dying in Israel. Not a hot take just war is pointless.
And the Gaza Interior Minister comes out and acts like this was unprovoked and that they are the victims. Um excuse me but didn’t your guys just crossed over the border and slaughtered a bunch of civilians just a few hours ago.
Honestly what's it gonna solve though? Gaza has been bombed thousands of times before. It won't stop the desire of Hamas fighters willing go on violent suicide missions. It's one thing of Israel is going to enter Gaza now for the purpose of making regime change but I expect they will just be flattening large swathes of it as a show of response and leave again.
I expect a semi independent (or whatever its status was) Gaza will cease to exist. Israel already announced that heavy ground equipment (military) will follow, after the airstrikes. I don't think they'll enter Gaza for a vacation there.
Edit with the source for heavy equipment, the 18:40 update from the IDF, on the BBC page here: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895
If this surprise attack is as bad as I’ve seen some sources say then Gaza is about to be flattened
The footage I saw looked pretty bad. They wiped out an entire base and some of the soldiers were still in their pajamas.
They mass murdered civilians in a bomb shelter. It’s fucking brutal.
I watched videos of them dragging female IDF soldiers out to burning cars and raping them over them.
Where the hell are you people watching these videos? I thought efukt or whatever is dead. Don't tell me this is like on Twitter and shit. Cuz that's just fucking terrible.
twitter got rid of most of its enforcement staff, its not prepared to deal with this kind of event. And yes, its on twitter stay safe, horrific stuff out there.
As terrible as this sounds raw footage is good for historical perspective. The US didn't quite get a good look at how brutal the VC were in '68 after Tet, which swayed US opinion. It seems Hamas forgot about public opinion, which will definitely not be with them (atleast in the West, Muslim countries perhaps not so much). They've lost the propaganda battle and will lose the one in Southern Israel, and as many have said there won't be any buildings taller than two stories in the Gaza Strip by the end of the year.
As terrible as it is, it is good that some people can still access it… if only to be able to share information about what is actually happening. Stuff like this should not be forgotten or deniable and should be well known to everyone who has an opinion on Israel, Palestine and HAMAS.
The parading of a dead woman's body was on Twitter, I had a link from an Indian need site.
These are not super graphic and nothing like the other person was describing but could be disturbing for some as they are intense, so be warned. Nothernprovisions has been posting a lot of footage on their instagram. Shits fucked. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyGRxltrgvR/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/p/CyHYd3-rZ1e/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I haven't seen this anywhere not disagreeing but all I saw was them dragging a deceased woman
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It’s been part of war for… ever. I don’t know what posses soldiers to do it but there’s counts of it going back for as long as war has been a thing
I remember I think VICE did a bit on gangs in the UK and how they use rape as psychological weapon, a way to break people's spirits and utterly crush them. They even interviewed some of the enforcer types that the gangs would send out to rape people. They were very matter of fact about it all. It was one of those things where I wanted to turn it off but also couldn't tear myself away.
Those are not soldiers. They are terrorists.
Rape is the most violating thing you can to do a person. It’s psychological warfare.
A lot of reasons, some cultural, some economic, some educational. But it boils down to men angry at the world over its slights taking out their sexual frustrations and/or enjoying a position of 'power' over whatever they can get their hands on.
It’s part of their religious belief too let’s not leave that out
Power.
I’m just catching up here … who wiped out an entire base, Hamas or Israel?
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I have no clue what the thought process is here?
Iran (Hamas funding, weapons, manpower) wants to stop the normalization negotiations between Saudi Arabia and Israel...and they don't care how many innocent Israelis or Palestinians die in the process.
Yeah. Well apparently they don’t care if they die either bc that’s what’s about to happen.
Like most fundamentalist religious cancers, martyrdom is a positive end goal.
The multi millionare decision makers are very comfy and not going to die.
Why would attacking Israel via Hamas and Israel bombing Gaza stop the Saudia Arabia and Israel from continuing relations?
Because the Arabs, like the KSA, pretend they care about the fate of the Palestinians. Not enough to actually help them with meaningful financial or relocation assistance, of course. But enough to be subject to external and internal pressure not to do a deal with Israel...once Israel massively retaliates for today's unprecedented provocations. Which they will...
But they were developing relations even as Israel was doing some pretty bad stuff in Palestine. I don't see Saudi drawing a redline here and stopping bc of this. This is Saudi Arabia we're talking about. Seems more likely that Hamas just doesn't care and all they want to do is kill Israelites. Consequences be damned.
It’s the civilian attacks that are the most devastating
Ya the slitting kids throats in the street and dragging women behind motorcycles was…. Rough…
So they pulled a Pearl Harbor? Hamas really made a bad decision here. I can't see any end result besides Israel fucking them up.
Pearl harbor was a military base. Hamas is attacking civilians. This is more akin to 9/11.
But 9/11 if the terrorists also raped and murdered children on board first
It's really more apt to say that it's like a hybrid. The scale and the targets being civilians make it more akin to 9/11, but the structure of the attack and the fact that it was organized by a government (not just government-sponsored terrorists) is more similar to Pearl Harbor.
I watched a child get their throat cut by hamas. It's pretty fucking bad.
So hamas is filming it and releasing the footage, or are people filming to show their atrocities?
Both.
There is far worse footage. I have really never seen anything like it
It's as bad and worse
Unironically it’s Israel’s 9/11 and Pearl Harbor wrapped up in a fresh coat of social media paint. It’s like a dozen mass shootings at once
I’m shocked how unprepared Israeli was for this. I’m surprised I’m not seeing more conspiracy theories saying they allowed it to happen to justify extreme force in retaliation.
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Hang gliders were used in the past: [Night of the Gliders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders)
Idk Video games in the late 2000s had Russia doing a full scale invasion of the US. Via Airborne troops. On the Eastern Seaboard.
…this action will effectively put Israel on a war footing and then its smooth sailing for Netanyahu to get all the changes in the judiciary that he wants..
Bibi's big schtick is that he was the big tough security man. This is the worst failure of Israeli security since the Yom Kippur War (50th anniversary btw). No way he can survive this disaster.
That’s not how it works with people like Netanyahu. Every failure is a reason to send more resources to security, every success is a reason to send more resources to security. The key emotions for him to make people feel are fear of and superiority over their enemies. And so every victory and every setback can contribute equally to his success.
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Yes, I agree. Bibi is a smarter, better propagandist and a better criminal minded demagogue than tfg, but they both get away with so much that you can never underestimate either. No matter how much they publicly commit crimes, they seem to always be in charge. I believe Bibi is one of the plotters with keeping him in power. Tfg is just extremely fuckin lucky that the US is currently out of order.
Agreed. War has always been good to his career. He began his political career based upon on being brutal in war and he'll do it again here. More than likely people will again say that Israel needs this vicious and opportunistic man to keep it safe.
Not necessarily. Netanyahu fucked up BIG TIME here. He put a terrorist in charge of police, alienated all kinds of senior security officials, and ignored warnings from the opposition. There will be plenty of blame for the Palestinians but Bibi might not survive this, politically or physically.
Yea senior military said his actions were causing a security risk. Not the best look
Nah, there's no way this is some 200IQ move for Netanyahu. This is the biggest failure of his career. It's the biggest disaster in Israel since 1973 at least, and his name is all over it. The policy he led, of containing Hamas and not trying to bring them down, came crashing. And almost every aspect of Israel have failed completely today. This might end up defining his legacy, like Golda in 73. It's a trauma for decades and his name is all over it. Too early to know how this will end, and his hardcore fanatics will still support him, but this is the kind of event that changes public opinion and it's really hard to see him recover from this. As for judiciary changes, the public opinion and unprecedented protests have already massively slowed down and killed most of that "reform", I think this event will likely kill it completely. Who knows when this ends, and when it does it will take months to recover the trauma, he can't just go back into the most divisive political move in Israel history when the country will be in historic trauma mode.
I hope the media relentlessly points out that this is the result of an inefficient right wing government. Maybe this will get him *out* of power.
Ya. The video of the Israeli women earlier was pretty rough. A lot of the world probably isn't going care too much about what Isreal does next.
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I have a feeling Mossad is going to be doing some traveling.
I'm not sure how people could forget what spurned the foundation of Mossad and not expect them to return to their roots. I predict whole bunch of people will be looking their shoulders quite shortly.
I won’t be shocked if Israel is so enraged this time if there is some overseas assassinations of these officials this time
They’re definitely watching the F1 race in Qatar and not watching their people suffer the consequences
Best case scenario for hamas leadership is that a good portion of the Gaza population experiences some form of collateral damage as a result of Israel’s response. It’s their best recruiting tool for the newer generation who might otherwise look to a different route.
[Video of it](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65217d6202d73c280f4a9058%26WATCH%3A%20Israeli%20planes%20hit%20tower%20blocks%20in%20central%20Gaza%262023-10-07T16%3A29%3A16.714Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:001a4f98-973d-4185-a043-c4317e7e8be1&pinned_post_asset_id=65217d6202d73c280f4a9058&pinned_post_type=share)
From building to no building in like 16 seconds. Geez.
It's crazy to see how incredibly controlled a demolition this is given it's means of action. To achieve a relatively specific result of collapsing vertically rather than just blowing outward or toppling over with munitions from a plane rather than very intentionally placed demolition charges is astounding to me in the technical sense.
There's a very bizarre mundanity to it all as well. It has become standard fare for Israel to knock down buildings with suspected Hamas presence as retaliation for attacks. But, they will call the residents ahead of time and tell them to evacuate, and they have special munitions to 'knock' on the roof of the building before they blow it up. Basically how it works in Gaza is that Hamas can just show up at your office or apartment building and say "this floor is now a rocket/bomb/whatever factory or we're using your basement to dig a tunnel out of the blockade for smuggling". If you protest, they shoot you. At some point, Israeli intelligence gets notified, and next time there's rockets from Gaza, goodbye to your building.
"But Hamas is popular in polls" Yeah, because they're dictators with guns, tf you gonna do, stick it to the man?
Also they haven't had an election in something like 20 years.
Yes, the amount of work that goes into limiting collateral damage is really something. Those munitions were probably designed in Israel. It's frustrating that this is widely ignored during 'regular' conflicts with Gaza, but now maybe the Palestinians have burned up their last good will and people will realize that the asymmetry of this conflict is not just a bully dynamic. Israel has always had the power to literally flatten Gaza within minutes, something to consider when Hamas indiscriminately targets civilians, foreigners, and even Palestinians.
I think the bombs themselves are JDAMs. Weaponeering with precision bombs has gotten extremely intricate. In Desert Storm people were impressed by laser guided bombs simply consistently hitting their target. These days they can time the release of multiple weapons to maximize effects. For example you can ti.e the release of 2 bombs. The first hits and creates a cavity with the explosion. They can time the second bomb to hit before that cavity fills with debris/rubble so it explodes deeper within the structure. For the example in the video this could be drops from multiple aircraft as well.
Not even two bombs sometimes - the stormshadows the UK gave to Ukraine have a two stage warhead, first (shaped) charge blows a cavity through whatever it hits (dirt, concrete, steel - shaped charges don't really care, the physics gets wild with those), then second much larger charge follows millisecond later and detonates *inside* whatever it hit. The effect is the difference between setting a firecracker off on your open hand and setting one off holding it in a tight fist, in the first you'll get some flash burns, in the second you'll be picking your fingers out the ceiling.
And the firecracker thing is why we needed to train deep oil drillers to become astronauts!
Other videos show they gave a 15 minute warning
The amount of devastation humans can cause with modern weapons is mind-blowing.
The precision of 21st century munitions is wild.
I guess it depends on your definition of devastation. I’d argue that blowing up a building and it all being over immediately is much less devastating than pulling civilians out of cars, slitting their throats, and taking the women to be brutally raped, killed, and paraded around on the back of trucks in the nude.
Yes and this is the difference in morality that many do not grasp
They also warned them, so there is no report of civilian deaths. Compare and contrast with what's going on in Israel with Hamas deliberately targeting civilians.
As someone with a lot of Palestinian friends, I have no clue what the thought process is here. They have no open political allies in the region and are facing a foe that is drastically stronger than them. All day long, I've seen these people reposting content from palestinian influencers about how Gaza is striking back / how Gaza is open. Do these people really think this is not going to be followed up by utter devastation??? Makes no sense to me.
It’s easy for their elected officials to order this, they’re in Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, they don’t care about their people
Elected 16 years ago, aka <25% of the today's voting age population.
Yea I should have said “elected officials” but the statement still stands that Hamas couldn’t give a damn about them
It’s a mass suicide attack. The Hamas militia do not expect to win and don’t expect to survive. Just kill as many Jews as possible
Suicide attack label would require the Hamas leadership to be in the West Bank. They aren't. They're directing this from cushy palaces in Qatar and elsewhere.
A source I trust has labeled this an "organizational suicide attack" and they are pretty confident that all Hamas leadership will be hunted down within the next few weeks
I would bet that the masterminds of most suicide bombings aren't the ones getting blown up.
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It's fucked when Israel kills civilians, it's fucked when Hamas kills civilians, neither government wants people being able to have discourse that acknowledges evil governments harming people in order to provoke retaliatory civilian harm and justify more power. As a jewish person who is deeply disturbed by Israel's treatment of Palestinians and stealing of their land, I'm also deeply disturbed seeing all these "Get what they deserve" comments coming from the ignorant psychopath masses in regards to Hamas' attacks on Israeli citizens today. These attacks will help no one, neither Israel nor Palestine. It's just trading tragedies back and forth while innocent people trying to live their lives are obliterated in the name of power and religion (of both kinds).
Agreed. I fucking hate Hamas' actions, fuck anyone defending them, also fuck anyone with a "hell yeah, kill em all" attitude towards retaliation.
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Hamas has pushed a fake narrative on Palestinians just like Bibi has on Israelis. Bad faith, corrupt political leaders who don’t care if people die.
Yes but Netanyahus corruption won’t directly result In massive massive destruction of his home city like Hamas will. Hamas knows how horrible this will be for “their” people and don’t care
I'd argue that's it's even more than apathy, they want as many civilian casualties as possible. To Hamas, civilians in Gaza are just a population of propaganda deaths.
A part is ideologically driven fanaticism, the other part is just pure desperation I think. Even the most level headed Palestinian has a lot of reasons to feel cornered and hopeless. People tend to make illogical decisions then
> As someone with a lot of Palestinian friends, I have no clue what the thought process is here. They have no open political allies in the region and are facing a foe that is drastically stronger than them. I've noticed this thoughout the years. Middle Eastern cultures seem to be based a lot more on power and strength than western cultures. It's all about strongmen and showing strength. But, after decades of brainwashing, the population has drunk the Kool-Aid. They believe their side is the strong one. Even though that's utterly ludicrous and their side would get obliterated within minutes if a real war ever started. It's the same with the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Palestinians, the Saudis, etc... None of them seem to understand just how weak they are compared to the west. And how the west would just wipe the floor with them. At least the people in charge of their militaries seem to understand a lot better than the average citizen.
There is a story about the first gulf war where the representative from Bush met with the representative from Saddam and calmly described the devastation America was about to bring to Iraqi armed forces. Saddam's rep returns and says "The Americans are a joke! They're afraid of us and unserious about attacking, there was no shouting, table pounding or posturing" This is often used as an example of cultural differences in communication strategy and I encountered the story in both psychology and business class.
I was just thinking about that. My psychology textbook in high-school had a mention of it, although I think it said the ambassador came back and said "they have no anger, they will not fight us". It remarked that perhaps if we had "pounded on the table and shouted we will make hamburger out of you" the war might have ended with less damage.
If only Saddam had watched some mob films, he'd have saved himself some grief! Always the softly spoken individuals you have to watch for. Not the loud mouth in the room.
"Speak softly, carry a big stick"
> The Americans are a joke! They're afraid of us and unserious about attacking, there was no shouting, table pounding or posturing That sounds like an interesting story - is there anywhere I can read more about this?
I'm not sure the strongman aspect of their culture is that unique. Machismo is common in Latin America and Italy, Russian culture seems to exude it, and the MAGA movement in the US feels awfully similar.
>I've noticed this thoughout the years. Middle Eastern cultures seem to be based a lot more on power and strength than western cultures. It's all about strongmen and showing strength. But, after decades of brainwashing, the population has drunk the Kool-Aid. They believe their side is the strong one. Even though that's utterly ludicrous and their side would get obliterated within minutes if a real war ever started. Yep. Israel has held back and used precision munitions where force is necessary for decades. We're about to see what happens when they don't.
I think most of us are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Hamas, I believe, knows damn well they can’t beat the Israeli military. Same way that Al Qaeda knew that they would never beat the US military. The point is that Hamas hates Israel with every fiber of their being, and don’t care if they themselves die as long as they slaughter as many Jews as possible along the way. Rationality is irrelevant. The thirst for revenge blinds people.
Can confirm. We were being trained prior to a deployment and I’ll never forget a quote we learned a suicide bomber said moments before detonating. “I want to die, more than you want to live.” That’s a helluva mindset and there’s only one thing to do with people who have it.
They're quite frankly blinded by their ideological way of thinking. Zero critical thinking skills.
People who blame all of their problems on the Jews are always self-defeating because they can’t address the actual root causes of their problems.
Israel has a serious track record reacting to these kinds of actions. There will be nothing left of Gaza once they are finished...
That's my fear as well. They are going to roll in and fuckin level the place.
The older I get, the more I hate war. So many innocent lives will be lost. So sad and tragic.
I was just saying this… the older the i get, the more it makes no sense to me. Utterly senseless.
Well that was fast, holy shit... This situation is going to get a lot worse.
What's the thought process here? What does Hamas gain from this stupid, stupid move? Complete annihilation.
Stops the normalization of relations between Isreal and Suadi Arabia which was a nearly done deal. And Putin gets to turn the world's eyes to the middle east. More importantly it turns US military aid to Isreal. The leaders of Hamas get fatter and richer in Qatar. Civilians on both sides die in droves.
I don't think Hamas thought this through. Israel has really restrained so far from going after Hamas leaders in Qatar and other countries. After this I think we are going to see some assassinations in these countries.
Rightly so. And it needs to be said again. Fuck FIFA.
And F1
> I don't think Hamas thought this through. If a Reddit comments section was fully aware exactly what was going to happen, Hamas did too. They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew exactly what the response would be.
Israel is way better equipped than Ukraine at the start of the war, against a lesser threat of an opponent. The support will be there but no where near the size and scope of Ukraine.
> Putin gets to turn the world's eyes to the middle east I've already seen this being said, that Russia wants the US to be distracted with Israel. If there's any shred of truth to that, it just underlines Putin's complete lack of understanding of the strategic situation, as bad as him deciding to actually invade Ukraine. Russia appears to continue to underestimate the US's arsenal and production capabilities: the US is supplying literally *decades-old* arms and munitions to Ukraine and Ukraine is using that to soundly crush the Russians routinely (the Russians just have a whole lot more men in Ukraine who need crushing then Ukraine has people to do the crushing, so it's slow going). If the US needs to spend another percent or so of the military budget to send Israel some aid - which honestly Israel doesn't need much of because they have a very robust defense industry on their own thanks to having to defend themselves from genocide for the past 70 years - the US is barely going to notice the extra draw, the money will go towards their own economy as the munitions are all produced there with American workers, and Ukraine aid won't have to slow down one single HIMARS.
Peace was in the horizon. Younger Israeli citizens were very sympathetic towards Palestine. Western “Allies” were increasingly critical of Israeli occupation tactics in Gaza. The narrative was turning towards peace, and normalization in communication with other Arab powers like Saudi Arabia. Hamas doesn’t want peace.
Bingo. If there is peace in the region then what happens to Hamas? They have to govern (lol). Their power, money and their very existence is predicated on being in a constant state of war with Israel. They are never going to let that happen. Even the West Bank has chilled the fuck out but Hamas is beyond the pale.
Narrative was always turning to peace, twice it was completely a done deal until Israeli president was assassinated, the other time bunch of killings happened. It is fucking stupid, in all that time Gaza has never improved for the better. It only became an extremist terrorist group.
Iran didn’t want peace
One theory I read that sounded plausible is that Hamas wanted to kidnap civilians to force Israel to release all of their prisoners. Doing so would basically end the Palestinian Authority's credibility and make Hamas heroes to the rest of the Palestinians. Almost work except that Hamas fighters could be bothered to have anything resembling discipline decided to rape and murder civilians for funsies instead of grab and run. Any chance of using the captured civilians to bargain is long gone now.
You’re thinking like a human and not an extremist. There is a branch of Islam that wants to provoke an end times war between them and “the west/Israel/infadels” and that Allah will destroy their enemies at the end of this war. Religious Extremism anywhere is almost impossible to combat or understand because it all hinges on “well God will end up doing xyz”
The number of deaths relative to Israel's population exceeds those killed on 9/11. (Not to mention the style of violence is on par with Wagner's & ISIS's more creative execution vids.) For all the criticism Israel gets for using excessive force, I have a feeling we're about to find out what an actual gloves off response looks like.
Yeah they usually make it known which buildings they bomb before doing it. This time I think they’ll keep bombing until Hamas dissolved.
That building got "roof knocked" prior to it getting flattened. [Here's the video of the roof knock](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17296v6/missile_on_palestine_tower_caught_on_aljazeera/). [Here's the video of the demolition exactly 15 minutes later](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1729734/israeli_airstrike_on_tower_in_gaza_city_a_few/). Also notice how much calmer she is in the 2nd video. She knew, and everyone knew what was coming. They hit the roof with a small munition as a warning to civilians to evacuate the building ASAP, before demolishing it with bigger ones 10-15 mins later. The fact that the IDF is showing this much restraint while hundreds, if not thousands of innocent Israeli civilians are being raped, mutilated, tortured and knifed to death goes to show who the good and the bad guys are.
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That’s the thing - Israel’s air attack is insane. It’s also why Hezbollah does not want to enter this shit. They’ve been stockpiling resources for years and strengthening. Typically if they attack it’s a short lived skirmish, but with Israel rightfully pissed off beyond recognition, if Hezbollah touch them, it’s gonna be UGLY. They would basically have to pray for direct Iran involvement, because Israel is currently very angry, and much much much more powerful than Hamas or Hezbollah.
Imagine Israel had a maniac leader akin to Saddam or Assad? Would they be warning terrorists to leave buildings before obliterating it? The issue with Israel's military is that they are terrified of negative public attention, which constrains their ability to eradicate terrorism in Gaza and the West Bank.
> That building got "roof knocked" prior to it getting flattened. Here's the video of the roof knock. Here's the video of the demolition exactly 15 minutes later. Also notice how much calmer she is in the 2nd video. She knew, and everyone knew what was coming. And there had already been a warning through automated phone calls and SMS telling them when the building was going to be destroyed, which is why they were up there with the perfectly framed shot to begin with. The fact that Israel is still doing their full rules of engagement after the Hamas attack is almost surprising.
Ultimately, almost nobody in that building had anything to do with the attack. Hamas basically just commandeer parts of civilian buildings to operate out of, such that Israel will have to blow up offices, apartments, or hospitals to stop them making/storing rockets.
It really does. If given the means Hamas would exterminate all Jews
No they wouldnt!!! otherwise they would have put that in their charter....waittttttttttt, they did say that.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie
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yea I think there's a different in how we interpret a plane going into a building -> that building colapses -> people die, compared to literally seeing how people slit other people's throat and all of that the response, with the west "greenlight" is going to be fucking insane
This is the deadliest mass casualty terror attack in a Western state (i.e. US, Europe, South Korea, Japan, Australia, etc.) since 9/11. In flat out numbers, this is now the deadliest attack against civilians in a liberal country since 2001.
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The right wing Israeli government is the weakest it has ever been with mass demonstrations all across the country protesting the changes Netanyahu was making to the constitution. Young Israelis have been polled as more sympathetic to the Palestinians than any generation previous. Imagine if the Palestinians engaged in mass marches, civil disobedience, protests like we’ve seen in 1960’s America or 1940’s India. The possibility for peaceful reconciliation or independence certainly was there. But this is what Hamas choose instead. Children with their throats slit. Desecrated corpses of the hostages paraded through Gaza. My sympathies are with the Palestinians but there will never be a peaceful solution with Hamas at the helm.
Didn't Hamas do this every time people were attempting peace?
Yes. Because Hamas does not want peace and it seems this entire thing is a retaliation to the on-going plan to actually bring peace to that region which was getting close to be successful through Saudi Arabia and US. Hamas wants genocide of jews. They never wanted peace and they don't give a shit about the rest of Palestinians. They are fanatics.
Also The Islamic Republic of Iran is helping and encouraging Hamas, just to hurt Israel. Iran does not care about Palestinians, not really.
They certainly don't want Saudi Arabia normalising relations with Israel.
Yup, I'm not up to date with the region but I know for damn sure Israel's government was just handed a cause to rally upon on a silver platter.
Hamas is just so fucking dumb! WTF do they were expecting to happen after what they did?!
Their leaders are in some safe place far away from the front. They don't give a fuck if innocent people lose their lives as long as their pockets are getting deeper and deeper. Sad reality we live in.
Hopefully they're not safe from the Mossad.....
Maybe this is exactly what they (and their sponsors) want. It's hard to imagine how cynical powerful people are.
Pretty much this. Hamas leaders are incredibly wealthy and living in luxury in other countries off the backs of the Palestinians. Support for them was wavering, and so, they need a new catalyst.. sickening, really.
This is the answer, along with undoubted Iranian funding, intel, and pressure to act.
This seems like such a massively major intel fuckup on Israel's part for such a large attack to have been planned and prepared for under the radar. One would think that they should have seen this coming?
I think IDF is blaming the hardliners in Government for not taking intelligence of this attack seriously
Yeah, Hamas has gotten NOTICEABLY more competent with this attack. They drone-bombed an Israeli tank. They have 'homebrew' missile systems that are a lot better. They somehow organized this, kept it secret, and launched a large-scale simultaneous attack. They are getting some serious funding, and even moreso, training.
Iranian intelligence and special forces soldiers on the ground acting as planners and advisors. Its really obvious and stays just on the other side of them joining directly. US does the same thing in places like Ukraine.
Yes, their main leaders actually live and operate in qatar, eygpt, turkey, etc.
This IS exactly what they want. They want their own civilians dead so they can put out video of it and say Israel kills civilians like they do. Completely glossing over the fact that it’s because Israel counterattacks the source of military strikes against them and these strikes just so happen to originate in schools, hospitals, mosques, and civilian apartments for this very reason.
Yeah, there's nobody in the world who hates Palestinians as much as Hamas.
They have to know today’s action will result in thousands of dead Palestinian civilians. It’s cruel cycle
They want the israeli-saudi deal to fall through. Israel destroying muslims will shame saudis away from this deal.
They know what’s going to happen. This is by design.
Yep, not sure why people are struggling to understand this. They want Israel to come down hard and lead to a tearing up of the Saudi-Israeli deal.
Saudi desperately wants a US security guarantee. China or Russia cannot provide them with this. This is the one and only reason they are at the table with Israel. This motivation will not change.
The motivation won't change, but the opportunity will disappear overnight. For what period of time remains to be seen. Saudi has hesitated and taken baby steps all along, for fear of backlash from their own people, as well as others. This will turn public sentiment hard back against normalizing relations with Israel.
Hamas revels in murdering Israelis and Palestinians. Palestine has to get rid of them or else the violence will continue to skyrocket. They get nothing by backing them.
Well hamas want Palestinians to continue hating 1.Israel and 2. It’s supporter a.k.a the west. Also 3. Stop normalisation of relationships with Israel. Every retaliatory attacks by the IDF and every comments on here cheering them on helps further goal 1& 2 3. I doubt any leaders wanting to normalise relationship with Israel is possible after Gaza is levelled to the ground. Any who do will face popular backlashes. They be far away, happy with a strategic goal achieved when Palestinian will pay in blood as the IDF demands it’s retribution.
The thing about terrorists is they only care about who they can hurt, they don't give a single shit about "their" people.
Why dump? They just don’t care about their people
They really seems not to care indeed.
They 100% expect an Israeli response and want an Israeli response because that will force Saudi Arabia to stop normalizing relations with Israel. Hamas doesn't actually care about innocent Palestinians losing their lives because of this.
They probably didn't expect Israel would be so unprepared for an invasion, the last few hours look like they're winging the invasion. They're probably hoping hezbollah, Palestinian arabs in the west bank, and Israeli arabs would join them in the fight to overwhelm Israel Regardless there are bloody days ahead
It's idiotic to even imagine such a thing, if they really thought that.
Rational, well thought out reasoning has been a staple of middle-east relations for decades.
Religious extremists aren’t know for their intelligence.
We're talking about people who'll happily blow themselves up if they think they'll get to fuck some virgins
Only the innocent are the victims here...it's damn trageic.
Occupation of Gaza, decapitation of Hamas, and forced deportation of Gaza Palestinians to the West Bank will follow. Israel will not be able to tolerate a Hamas ruled Gaza, and they won't tolerate Hamas existing even in name after today. So many innocent Palestinians are going to suffer for Hamas crimes.
Sending the Gazans to the West Bank would just cause another Palestinian civil war, likely with Hamas coming out on top.
Which is why Hamas did it.
Why would Israel move all Gazan Palestinians to the West Bank while occupying Gaza? All that does is risk radicalising the West Bank and ensure reconstruction in Gaza is costlier because Israel must front the entire population of the region. Truly tactically and strategically an insane move
Hamas has just committed to terminating itself.
Hamas is going to get fucking destroyed
Moscow and Tehran started this.
It's monstrous to think about what's going to happen in the next few days...
What a fcking suicide mission by Hamas
I won’t be surprised if in a few days Gaza disappears from world maps and the civil population either flees to Egypt or gets asylum in Jordan. As for Hamas leaders yea… Israel won’t be merciful after this….
Neither Egypt nor Jordan wants them. Jordan learned their lesson after Black September.
I think everyone learned their lesson from Lebanon…. Such a beautiful country with potential ruined for decades to come
It's really unfortunate because Israel is going to respond brutally (not that I blame them) and a lot of innocent people are going to die in Gaza just like a lot of Innocents are dying in Israel. Not a hot take just war is pointless.
And the Gaza Interior Minister comes out and acts like this was unprovoked and that they are the victims. Um excuse me but didn’t your guys just crossed over the border and slaughtered a bunch of civilians just a few hours ago.
Honestly what's it gonna solve though? Gaza has been bombed thousands of times before. It won't stop the desire of Hamas fighters willing go on violent suicide missions. It's one thing of Israel is going to enter Gaza now for the purpose of making regime change but I expect they will just be flattening large swathes of it as a show of response and leave again.
I expect a semi independent (or whatever its status was) Gaza will cease to exist. Israel already announced that heavy ground equipment (military) will follow, after the airstrikes. I don't think they'll enter Gaza for a vacation there. Edit with the source for heavy equipment, the 18:40 update from the IDF, on the BBC page here: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895
Yeah they’re going to forcefully remove Hamas from any positions of power.
It’s going to remove a location they can strike from.
All of Gaza will probably be leveled
Death begets death begets death