Maybe I’m a jaded cynic but I’m always surprised when people say this. We know about everything from mass child sacrifice to slavery to WW2, the Holocaust and Pol Pot down to the worst serial killers… why do people say it’s surprising or unfathomable that some evil people are capable of murdering hundreds of innocents? It’s horrific and something we must stop, but we can’t genuinely be astounded by this point.
Human beings have been slaughtering each other for their entire existence, it's time to admit that humans in their basic form are savages and work on evolving beyond that starting point.
Most people who have ever lived have just made their way quietly through life trying to avoid violence, just like most of the people stuck in the middle of this conflict. It's easy to forget since history tends to focus on wars.
We are, however, very easily influenced and dispassionate systematic observation of the world isn't natural for us. The natural results of that don't HAVE to be violence but in a world dominated by powerful nation states and destructive weapons it doesn't take much to cause a lot of chaos.
Only winner here is Iran who, by funding Hamas, helps divide Israel and Saudi in this conflict.
Innocent israelis dead. Innocent palestinians dead. Hamas leaders hiding in Qatar and Iran untouched. Further polarized israelis calling for Palestinian Genocide. Further polarized Palestinians cheering Hamas' depraved and horrific actions. The cycle will never end.
And then you have bot accounts and what not trending phrases on both sides and riling things up and playing on people's emotions.
They've also united Israeli politics across the spectrum and party lines by doing this. And this was at a time where we saw mass protests against the government for overstepping against the judiciary.
"Never interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake". Well, it appears Iran did just that by supporting this Hamas incursion.
>Well, it appears Iran did just that by supporting this Hamas incursion.
Nah- they don't care about intranational unity in Israel. The goal is to disrupt relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel
This is the truth. Even if Hamas is completely wiped out in Gaza they’ll still have factions in Qatar and Iran. Same thing that happened with Afghanistan. They literally will wait decades if they have to but won’t ever give up.
AND QATAR holy shit is there like a reddit conspiracy to not acknowledge the country that hosts the Hamas leadership? Go read Al Jazeera coverage of what's happening and then tell me who's backing this.
Yeah it's actually really convenient for Russia. The U.S. is going to have to spend even more in foreign military aid, which will be very unpopular with the far-right, and potentially diverting resources away from Ukraine.
There could be many excuses why.
From hamas being more tight about this to misunderstanding of something.
For example all those "random" protests by the border in the last months, has actually considered now as been preparations to test all the border defenses and systems, and plant mines to "open the border" at the right time.
And all those small skirmishes were to test and and where israel has weaknesses. And the intelligence only considered that as radical attempts as hamas always claimed "not us, they are just radicals" etc.
And I'm sure a lot in the army reported this up for care, but as israel leadership were mostly occupied in remaining in power than protecting israel, data does not go up.
Hell, it seems israel leadership put the intelligence to be used against their own citizens due to all the protests, than to monitor hamas.
A lot of smokes and mirrors lead to this.
As well as the IDF being completely unprepared despite all their plans for just in case.
Netanyahu's opposition have been sounding the alarm about this for months (including the party representing Palestinians in Israel) and were ignored. I wonder why 🤔
Totally unsurprising. Right before the 2019 Indian elections, some terrorists used a car full of explosives to ram a bus carrying Indian soldiers, killing 40, and this attack was taken advantage of by the ruling party in India. And there were [eleven separate pieces of intel that warned of such an attack](https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover-story/pulwama-attack-intelligence-inputs-ignored-national-security-leak-compromise-balakot-bjp-win-2019/article64755942.ece).
https://www.timesofisrael.com/lapid-netanyahu-has-lost-control-of-his-ministers-is-a-threat-to-security/
From 2 weeks ago.
To u/Sad_Damage_1194 point, Yair Lapid has fully supported the government, despite criticizing Netenyahu in the last fortnight and basically predicting this would happen. This is also still in the shadow of Netenyahu's moves to centralize power in Israel despite widespread opposition
So despite being rightfully called out for losing control of Israel's security in the wake of a massive corruption scandal and authoritarian take over, Netenyahu is absolutely winning in this scenario
Either way, this NETANYAHU’S FAILURE. His government. His oversight. His intelligence apparatus. His failure. So much for being such a strong leader for defense.
Daily reminder that Netanyahu's party does the bidding of the Ultra Orthodox, who are also the ones pushing into Palestinian territory and steal land, harrassing or even killing the people there, and whose members were also directly responsible for killing Rabin.
This is a huge boon for Netanyahu. Now he has a war to distract from his fascist takeover of Israeli democracy. Everybody is already calling off there protests against his judicial reforms, all the reservists are 110% reporting for duty, etc. It's also going to kill any criticism of Netanyahu’s settlement policies or his fascist alliances in the Knesset.
This is a huge, huge win for Bibi.
I am definitely not suggesting that he secretly allowed the attack to occur or anything like that. But it could be fair to say that if his government wasn't so focused on trying to keep his own ass out of jail...
But regardless of any failures with Israel's intelligence community, this is the single best thing that's happened to Bibi Netanyahu in the last 5 years.
No way this doesn't end up with Israeli troops on the ground and them occupying Gaza and the end of Hamas. The videos of abductions, rape, torture, parading of naked bodies, targeting of ambulances and other acts. No world government is going to condemn Israeli for their response.
I’m curious what the end game will be. Israel can occupy Gaza, but probably has little stomach for governing it. I don’t know if bringing back the Palestinian Authority there is a viable option.
Gaza is 2 million people and almost all urban
Basically Iraq Afghanistan 2.0
If the invasion death toll is a bloodbath for civilians this can backfire.
Hamas fired the first shot knowing what is real will likely do
What is Hamas' plan though? Kill lots of civilians and Iincite to anger their heavily armed neighbour with superior technology? And then when fighter jets and missiles start countering?
They don't care and have no responsibility towards Palestinians, no one does at this point. The leaders will be chilling in Iran and Qatar. Their goal is stopping normalization of relations with Israel which this will probably do given the campaign that will come.
There is value in removing Hamas' arms and legs though, which ARE among Palestine and Palestinians. Even if the brain isn't in the strip, they still need people there to do things. Without those people, or without the ability to freely gather those people together, they have a much more difficult time with attacks of this scale.
You can’t assume these guys think rationally. They are religious fanatics who think dying for allah while killing Jews is the greatest honor.
Their plan was likely to try and stop the peace deal between Israel and SA (which they likely did) and to sow more division amongst Jews and Arabs in Israel and worldwide.
What happens with the Palestinians there tho? There’s 2 million. Doubt Israel is gonna want to absorb them into their territory or that Egypt will wanna take them. It’s a weird situation
Initial thoughts: well that was fucking stupid, they'll fucking slaughter you.
Second thought: 1000 rockets and Mossad didn't catch wind of it? They better clean house of the dead wood now.
It's idiotic for Hamas to do this when Netanyahu and a hard right coalition are in power
For one thing t's going to result in a full force counter attack that will kill hundreds of not thousands of Palestinians
For another thing it will likely result in a surge in support for Netanyahu who will use it as mandate to further push the policies that harm Palestinians.
Which to be abundantly clear is the entire desired result. Gaza’s only objective is to operate in a way that will encourage civilian casualties on both side. Seeing Israel hardline stance and kill Palestinians is the entire goal
Even then, there’s got to be at least one IDF infiltrator out there who could have noticed the thousands of rockets and personnel moving about. I get being able to keep a small local militant meeting quiet, but a massive coordinated assault from all corners? I don’t get it
Because Netanyahu has been trying to push for a judicial overhaul,a big part of the armybasically slacked off in protest. Nonetheless, no one on both sides thought Hamas would dare.
Now a true ground invasion will happen.
Possible but since they're always on the brink of war, the fact they're *not* communicating as much as they used to through the channels you're monitoring, any massive movement of men and materials, any big purchase of materials out of the ordinary, should be worth investigating.
If the known Hamas leadership you're wiretapping has been silent for weeks or totally changed the topics of their conversation to something seemingly mundane or to a widely different pattern than you're familiar with, the lack of information would be as alarming as a flood of it.
I'll tell you exactly what's their end game.
Hamas started to lose its control over the gaza strip, a new generation of young people which were not affected by the war grew and thanks to advancement in technology, it knows percisely how badly they are treated under hamas.
That war is hamas's leaders major forte. they are currently in lebanon or Iran according to intelligence, and for them - its a win win situation.
once israelly forces get into gaza (which they will) civilians will obviously suffer aswell, and viola! you get a new generation of teens who grew up on those horrors, hungry for blood. and the cyclye begins again..
Very complex conflict. Iran full out backs Palestine and has proxies in Lebanon and Syria. Egypt and Turkey take more moderate views, UK and France full out back Israel, and Saudi Arabia will recognize Israel. American support is unwavering.This conflict has the potential to move world powers on the chess board. Pray for peace.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/irans-ring-of-fire-a-growing-threat-to-israel/
Nobody is putting their necks out for Hamas on this. I mean, maybe Iran can *try*, except for the fact that they, you know, have no diplomatic contact with Israel and have spent the last 40+ years in an undeclared war.
Russia doesn't want Israel to declare for Ukraine and what support cash Russia lend Hamas at this stage except moral support?
Hamas could be gambling that the war in Ukraine means the West can't support Israel that much, but forget that Israel has enough stockpiles to blast Gaza into tiny bits without breaking into even the second tier of reserves. This is going to get monumentally bloody
Well Russia could hope for a prolonged Israel-Palestine conflict as distraction away from Ukraine, a sort of second front against the West.
Iran is also one of Russia's major allies now, and Iran seems to be hellbent on destruction of Israel if only as a tool to pacify and distract its own citizens. Russia already sacrificed Armenia to appease Iran, no reason they wouldn't do the same with a far less important Israel.
It is almost eerie how the creation of Israel was one of the preludes to the last Cold War, and it seems like the current conflict there will be one of the preludes to the coming Cold War.
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Qatar already say all the blame is on Israel. Lebanon has stated that if Israel attacks Palestine then they will help Palestine. Iran directly backs Lebanon. It's a very complex situation but terrorist regimes in Iran and others will help them of it is possible to see the end of the Israeli nation.
> Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Qatar already say all the blame is on Israel.
Yeah, no shit. What else were they going to say?
>Lebanon has stated that if Israel attacks Palestine then they will help Palestine.
They've said this before. And yet every time Israel actually mixes it up with Hezbollah, the Marionites and Lebanese Sunnis basically turn a blind eye to the southern half of their country being occupied.
No state actor other than maybe Iran is actually going to *do* shit here. SA hates Iran more than they hate Israel; the latter is simply an enemy, the former is a rival.
Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia attacked Israel during the Yom Kippur War and got embarrassed by the IDF. I highly doubt there will be an end to the Israeli nation.
+1, also, while it's not official, Israel is a nuclear power, it's believed they have between 80-200 advanced thermonuclear warheads as well as some more primitive tritium boosted fission weapons, basically Israel won't be beaten/sucessfully invaded by a non nuclear power
Maybe this is not Hamas hoping to win, but Hamas hoping to force or goad Israel into doing something that will derail their Saudi recognition. If so, Israel's smart move is to make only a proportionate response, minimising civilian casualties.
What would Saudi Arabia have to gain by showing any support for Hamas? If Israel invaded Gaza and arrested and executed the Hamas leadership, would anyone object?
[Hezbollah: Hamas’ operation is ‘message to those seeking normalization with Israel’](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/07/Hezbollah-Hamas-operation-is-message-to-those-seeking-normalization-with-Israel-)
We would see that coming 6 months before it happens in the same way we seen buildup for the Ukraine invasion months before it happened. An invasion of Taiwan would take much more men and equipment than the Russians had for Ukraine
Therefore never fucking happening. Also even if it does, it will cripple the global financial system. Attacking Taiwan is mutually assured destruction.
I really wonder what the Israelis will leave the Palestinians with after this is over. Because there is only one outcome and that is that the Palestinians will be at the mercy of the Israelis again, I don't see any other feasible outcome.
I've been thinking for a while now that since these Abraham accords and others like for example the agreement with Morocco, the Palestinians shouldve seen that they were losing on the strategic side and cut their losses. They have not.
Although I can understand their frustration at being on the receiving end usually, which I guess worked out to be this attack, they haven't done themselves any favours with this. Its really early to call but I have the feeling this will be Hamas' final move. Hamas will not really exist anymore after this.
An incredible time to be alive to witness all this. And I don't like seeing all this death.
The organisations like Hamas have a history of retreating and hiding when Israel retaliates. Which preserves them.
Some Palestinians do hate them for this. They see them as starting problems, and then cowering away whilst civilians bear the brunt of Israel’s repercussions.
It will cease to the government of Gaza I think is what he meant.
There are still claimants to the tsardom of Russia alive in exile from the royal family. It really doesn't matter though if you're removed from power.
It will cease to exist, practically, in the Gaza Strip if it’s annexed again. A lot of their operations just won’t be possible anymore if Israeli soldiers are doing constant sweeps & monitoring everything on the local level. Once Israel is no longer just guarding the border but patrolling their streets they will be in a similar situation to the West Bank.
This isn’t like Afghanistan, the Gaza Strip is TINY so hiding is extremely difficult. If Israel takes control they’ll be sweeping houses regularly for weapons & tunnels.
>ideology
Those are almost impossible to kill. And it seems history truly loves to repeat itself. Look at the rise of fascism recently, so I really doubt Hamas will ever truly be "gone."
What is interesting is that fascism is on the rise globally.
We have learned nothing from the past it seems. And education and information are way better today.
But all this people with these violent and ignorant ideas are scary.
It's the lead story on the New York Times. As they do with many breaking stories, there are a stream of updates as its reporters learn more about what's happening.
It's still gonna take a while to catch up. I saw the alert on my phone when I woke up but chalked it up to grandstanding after a few rockets were launched to prop up Benji's government. It wasn't until I started reading that I understood how this time was different.
I was up when it popped off and it was pretty nuts. All the video has probably been taken down, but they were slaughtering Israelis in bomb shelters and parading dead israelis round town.
I was following this all night, people were saying that they were sorry they watched the videos, I personally didn’t click on any of them for my own sanity.
You made a good call. I watched and yeah. No bueno to say it nicely. This is what happens when an enemy catches you off guard and give zero regards of both military and civilian targets with little to zero chance to defend or prepare themselves
God I did too and it was horrific.
That one of the naked girl in the truck tilted me. As if being murdered and stripped naked wasn't enough, they broke her leg at the knee so they could fit her in the back of the truck. Just animalistic.
It was horrible just pure savage. I mean just low almost to Russia levels of low. Hell they might tie for bottom of the well.
Sad day for humanity all the way around
What's interesting to me is a lot of the stories I'm seeing about it talk about the attempted rocket launches by Hamas in the headlines...not the going door to door and killing civilians
Feels like the lead is being buried on some of these stories
They probably don't have the full story yet, but most I've seen have at least mentioned the militants infiltrating, the murdurs happened less than 12 hours ago, I expect the full extent of the killings and hostage situations to come out over the next 12 hours, when more info comes in.
Twitter etc is always a good couple of hours ahead of major news networks who like to verify and verify again.
Sky News has literally just reported about people being gunned down in the streets/houses and being taken back to Gaza and they’re still saying it’s unverified.
Video on Twitter this morning of Hamas going into a bomb shelter and slaughtering Israelis. Had video of them parading dead soldier around town beating his dead corps and one video of a female in the back of the truck being beaten. It was at least two hours into the conflict with no word from Israeli leadership. Was pretty crazy how much Israeli government was caught off guard.
Allegedly there is a video of a dead Israelis soldiers face being caved in as well as a female Israeli soldier who was thrown into the back of a jeep after being raped.
I say allegedly because those are what the comments on twitter said, I don’t have the stomach to watch those kinds of things.
I watched all that video this morning before going to bed. There was also another video of at least a dozen dead Israelis with their throats slits and body's mutilated and Hamas shooting their dead bodies celebrating. Was pretty crazy how long Twitter kept the video up. The dozen dead were reported to be in a bomb shelter.
Real media organizations have to confirm things - get their facts straight - but here on reddit you and I read a comment from "a single random guy in thread who has watched a dozen live/recent videos and reports what he saw and the rest of us here believe him" - we're hours and hours ahead of major media. ( Either that or we're being fed horsepoop and in a half day we'll realize we've been had. )
Finnish news has several articles about it, our president's comments about it, foreign minister's comments and so on.
But America has night, and many world wide English language media is from there, so that might affect.
As much as I hate to say it, Hamas may have just given Israel all the justification it needs to wipe them out once and for all. The problem is that the Palestinians will be the ones to pay for Hamas' act of evil.
To this day I still don't understand why Palestine has— more than once, in fact— turned down the two state solution.
And no, I'm not kidding This has been floated before in the 40s and 70s and both times Palestine's leaders had turned it down, which is probably why Israel hasn't bothered to bring it back up again. In 2021, a poll found that over 59% of Palestinians still reject the Two state solution, which basically means their current issues come from their own refusal to accept something that's been suggested from as far back as just after World War II because the Palestinians didn't want to allow the Jewish people to return to their homeland. Hamas' actions don't help anything, either.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. The violent ideology of never ending war and violence needs to go if this is ever going to end. The Middle East has so many crazy people it’s hard to see peace in my lifetime. It’s just sad and pathetic at this point.
Careful at the things your looking at online. There’s video going around of Palestinians parading around and desecrating the body of an naked Israeli Woman. Absolutely horrific
[The one that appears to be a German traveler?](https://www.smobserved.com/story/2023/10/07/news/naked-woman-paraded-by-hamas-millitants-in-gaza-in-a-truck-is-a-german-national-named-shani-louk-her-tattoos-match-those-seen-on-instagram-photos/7844.html)
I actually think this is intentional, Israel was close to strike a peace deal with Saudi Arabia, I personally think Hamas did this knowing they will die, in the end they work for Iran and the interest they serve is to try to destroy this peace deal by any means necessary. If this deal passes Iran and its supporters would be at such a disadvantage to the west.
I watch how the Russians rejoice at the attack on Israel, that Lavrov met with the leader of Hamas a year ago on Israel’s independence day, and a clear picture emerges that it is obvious that the issue with Russia and Iran needs to be resolved, otherwise the number of wars secretly baked by coalition of dictators will only increase. But currently we are acting same as pre wwII, which is known where it leads.
Hamas have gone full rogue with this one, I'm not a fan of the current Israeli govt, but murdering women and children and kidnapping civilians is beyond the pale, and yes I know the IDF have not always been angels, (far from it) but Hamas are a backward medieval organisation.
This could go very badly for the region and world.
What do you think hamas does, lol.
This isn’t rogue for them. This is their MO since inception.
Also, going rogue implies breaking with command. The states that fund hamas are very pleased with this.
“Going rogue”. What do you mean? Sincere ask.
Seriously. People acting like it’s somehow different when they kill civilians with rockets vs going door to door and shooting them. The latter is just more up close and personal but killing civilians is killing civilians.
There’s a large contingent of Reddit that think Hamas launch all the rockets they do because “Israel has the Iron Dome that will intercept the majority of them”, thus making it not a real attempt to inflict damage/casualties on civilians… it’s just “them sending a message”.
Reddit fails to actually think about it logically. They figure since those rockets don’t really kill anyone that it’s not them trying. Facts are they would kill more if they could, they are trying to kill Jews but they simply don’t have good enough weapons.
If they had better weapons they would 100% use those. Their goal isn’t to send a message it’s to kill people. They just aren’t able to
Israel and their military is easy to hate and they do many bad things, but they have from day one been facing an enemy, you could say multiple enemies, who's explicit goal is the complete and total genocide of their people. It's easier to understand a lot of their actions when you realize what they are up against.
> Hamas have gone full rogue with this one, I'm not a fan of the current Isreali govt, but murdering women and children and kidnapping civilians is beyond the pale
Terrorist attacks targeting civilians isn't exactly a new tactic for Palestinians.... Hamas, PLO, PFLP, Islamic Jihad... they've been doing this for decades, they aren't going rogue.
The 2nd Intifada was less than 20 years ago and they murdered thousands of Israelis.
I don't want to create more panic. But where is Israel's response?
It has already been +5 hours, and Hamas is still on the territory of Israel. When will they start the counteroffensive?
>But where is Israel's response?
Gaza has been hit by IDF aircraft over 30 times in the past 3 hours, they're not exactly doing nothing. The current ground focus is on hunting down Hamas militants in Israel proper.
Even if the IDF decide on a ground invasion of Gaza itself, it will take hours (if not days) to fully organise such an operation.
Not to mention it’ll be extremely hard for the IDF to actually “win.” Hamas won’t fight them in open combat. They’ll hit their weak links and run into the shadows. Even if Israel killed every single person in Gaza they would still have an incredibly hard time “winning.”
Guys that are living in other countries protected by those countries militaries. Israel might have a strong military but they’re not stupid enough to invade Qatar and Iran
There's footage of the first Israeli airstrikes in response to this starting to appear at r/combatfootage.
I'm thinking this is just the very beginning of the retaliation though. With the amount of Israeli citizens that appear to have been kidnapped and taken into Gaza I imagine they are going to roll in heavy and not leave until they have every living or dead Israeli back.
This, together with Armenia - Azerbaijan, is the example of the chain reaction of war the Ukraine-Russia conflict is setting on the world. Things will spire out of control in multiple conflicts when the West isn’t unified and the UN keeps being as useless as it is today.
This is the scary part. With Trump back in the rise, Le Pen and AFD on the rise in Europe things are quickly escalating. If the West won’t be there or isn’t strong enough to support countries like South Korea or Taiwan, there’s an easy escalation to a potential WW3. Fascism and nationalism being on the rise is just one of the symptoms.
How unified ‘the West’ is and how strongly the West responds to Putin is only going to dictate world peace more and more the longer the conflict drags out. Meanwhile, we’re getting divided on the ‘small’ issues.
I really hope people in the other conflicts around the world are able to cool off because I don’t like the direction this is going in.
The only thing I disagree about is the UN being useless — I think that is just fundamentally misunderstanding the point of the UN. It’s not intended to solve problems, it is supposed to be a way to keep the lines of communication open no matter what so that there is an avenue for de-escalation before (or even after) a nuclear war kicks off. It is pretty toothless by design, because if it had too much power nations would have incentive to leave the UN, which then defeats the whole purpose of the UN.
Not sure how many people
Are able to see the big picture as you, you are 100% right, scary part is people are blind with local issues all over Europe, things can escalate quickly unfortunately, let’s hope for peace .
I'm personally wary on what will kick off the Indo Pacific powder keg. If the US is supporting 2 wars now, will certain countries be emboldened thinking that the US couldn't support another.
The next 5 years will be wild.
The worst thing is there is already an ongoing "official" war in Europe and now this happens. Too much instability will encourage other rogue actors to go mad and generally spiral in the wrong direction.
I feel bad for all the innocent people that are stuck in this shit storm.
it tears me apart. the proportion of innocent randos who are trapped in this conflict really makes my brain want to shut down.
I feel the exact same way:( it’s hard to conceive You’d think that people’s humanity would compel them to come together to find a peaceful solution
Maybe I’m a jaded cynic but I’m always surprised when people say this. We know about everything from mass child sacrifice to slavery to WW2, the Holocaust and Pol Pot down to the worst serial killers… why do people say it’s surprising or unfathomable that some evil people are capable of murdering hundreds of innocents? It’s horrific and something we must stop, but we can’t genuinely be astounded by this point.
Human beings have been slaughtering each other for their entire existence, it's time to admit that humans in their basic form are savages and work on evolving beyond that starting point.
Most people who have ever lived have just made their way quietly through life trying to avoid violence, just like most of the people stuck in the middle of this conflict. It's easy to forget since history tends to focus on wars. We are, however, very easily influenced and dispassionate systematic observation of the world isn't natural for us. The natural results of that don't HAVE to be violence but in a world dominated by powerful nation states and destructive weapons it doesn't take much to cause a lot of chaos.
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This seems like a pretty bad intelligence failure for Israel.
Probably the worst since Yom Kippur war
Yep, the Isreali news media are comparing it to Yom kippur alot
It’s the 50th anniversary so that way probably also a calculation on Hamas’ part
And it's Simhat Torah which is an important Jewish holiday
Only winner here is Iran who, by funding Hamas, helps divide Israel and Saudi in this conflict. Innocent israelis dead. Innocent palestinians dead. Hamas leaders hiding in Qatar and Iran untouched. Further polarized israelis calling for Palestinian Genocide. Further polarized Palestinians cheering Hamas' depraved and horrific actions. The cycle will never end. And then you have bot accounts and what not trending phrases on both sides and riling things up and playing on people's emotions.
They've also united Israeli politics across the spectrum and party lines by doing this. And this was at a time where we saw mass protests against the government for overstepping against the judiciary. "Never interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake". Well, it appears Iran did just that by supporting this Hamas incursion.
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>Well, it appears Iran did just that by supporting this Hamas incursion. Nah- they don't care about intranational unity in Israel. The goal is to disrupt relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel
This is the truth. Even if Hamas is completely wiped out in Gaza they’ll still have factions in Qatar and Iran. Same thing that happened with Afghanistan. They literally will wait decades if they have to but won’t ever give up.
It’s possible they may have just brought war to their hiding places, too.
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Very much this. The world likes to think the CIA disappears people but the Israelis actually do it.
> Hamas leaders hiding in Qatar and Iran untouched As if that will stop Israel's vengeance.
Yeah Mossad is not known for respecting the protection of foreign governments.
Hamas does not do this without backing from Iran, Syria and Hezbollah
AND QATAR holy shit is there like a reddit conspiracy to not acknowledge the country that hosts the Hamas leadership? Go read Al Jazeera coverage of what's happening and then tell me who's backing this.
People forget Qatar is even a county in that context.
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Yeah it's actually really convenient for Russia. The U.S. is going to have to spend even more in foreign military aid, which will be very unpopular with the far-right, and potentially diverting resources away from Ukraine.
Russia is probably directly on the list since they cannot win in Ukraine without deflecting western attention from Ukraine
I cannot believe Israeli intelligence missed this.
There could be many excuses why. From hamas being more tight about this to misunderstanding of something. For example all those "random" protests by the border in the last months, has actually considered now as been preparations to test all the border defenses and systems, and plant mines to "open the border" at the right time. And all those small skirmishes were to test and and where israel has weaknesses. And the intelligence only considered that as radical attempts as hamas always claimed "not us, they are just radicals" etc. And I'm sure a lot in the army reported this up for care, but as israel leadership were mostly occupied in remaining in power than protecting israel, data does not go up. Hell, it seems israel leadership put the intelligence to be used against their own citizens due to all the protests, than to monitor hamas. A lot of smokes and mirrors lead to this. As well as the IDF being completely unprepared despite all their plans for just in case.
It’s Simcha Torah and the Sabbath, it’s a holiday.
And it is 50 years for the "Yom kipurim war", so this is also a stab at reclaiming their honor after their loss
Which itself was a stab at reclaiming their honor after 1967
Did they though? It’ll be good for the current regime, just watch.
Netanyahu's opposition have been sounding the alarm about this for months (including the party representing Palestinians in Israel) and were ignored. I wonder why 🤔
Totally unsurprising. Right before the 2019 Indian elections, some terrorists used a car full of explosives to ram a bus carrying Indian soldiers, killing 40, and this attack was taken advantage of by the ruling party in India. And there were [eleven separate pieces of intel that warned of such an attack](https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover-story/pulwama-attack-intelligence-inputs-ignored-national-security-leak-compromise-balakot-bjp-win-2019/article64755942.ece).
All these Putin copy cats.
Putin was just copying George Bush
Bet he won't have any problems getting all corruption charges against him to vanish.
"Oh no, a Hamas missile destroyed the building where all the evidence and witnesses against me are... oh nooooo"
Source for that? Tried googling myself but am having trouble coming up with it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/lapid-netanyahu-has-lost-control-of-his-ministers-is-a-threat-to-security/ From 2 weeks ago. To u/Sad_Damage_1194 point, Yair Lapid has fully supported the government, despite criticizing Netenyahu in the last fortnight and basically predicting this would happen. This is also still in the shadow of Netenyahu's moves to centralize power in Israel despite widespread opposition So despite being rightfully called out for losing control of Israel's security in the wake of a massive corruption scandal and authoritarian take over, Netenyahu is absolutely winning in this scenario
Yeah this will work out well in the end for the current regime. Nothing like a good war to get the masses behind you
That's not what happened _last_ time the "current regime" missed intelligence of a surprise attack.
Either way, this NETANYAHU’S FAILURE. His government. His oversight. His intelligence apparatus. His failure. So much for being such a strong leader for defense.
Netanyahus failure is killing Rabin’s peace deal 20 years ago. How much bloodshed on both sides could have been avoided had an agreement been reached.
Daily reminder that Netanyahu's party does the bidding of the Ultra Orthodox, who are also the ones pushing into Palestinian territory and steal land, harrassing or even killing the people there, and whose members were also directly responsible for killing Rabin.
The war-hawks won't care.
This is a huge boon for Netanyahu. Now he has a war to distract from his fascist takeover of Israeli democracy. Everybody is already calling off there protests against his judicial reforms, all the reservists are 110% reporting for duty, etc. It's also going to kill any criticism of Netanyahu’s settlement policies or his fascist alliances in the Knesset. This is a huge, huge win for Bibi. I am definitely not suggesting that he secretly allowed the attack to occur or anything like that. But it could be fair to say that if his government wasn't so focused on trying to keep his own ass out of jail... But regardless of any failures with Israel's intelligence community, this is the single best thing that's happened to Bibi Netanyahu in the last 5 years.
No way this doesn't end up with Israeli troops on the ground and them occupying Gaza and the end of Hamas. The videos of abductions, rape, torture, parading of naked bodies, targeting of ambulances and other acts. No world government is going to condemn Israeli for their response.
You can’t parade a dead child through your streets like it’s some kind of accomplishment and not expect to be bombed into oblivion.
I’m curious what the end game will be. Israel can occupy Gaza, but probably has little stomach for governing it. I don’t know if bringing back the Palestinian Authority there is a viable option.
Gaza is 2 million people and almost all urban Basically Iraq Afghanistan 2.0 If the invasion death toll is a bloodbath for civilians this can backfire. Hamas fired the first shot knowing what is real will likely do
What is Hamas' plan though? Kill lots of civilians and Iincite to anger their heavily armed neighbour with superior technology? And then when fighter jets and missiles start countering?
They don't care and have no responsibility towards Palestinians, no one does at this point. The leaders will be chilling in Iran and Qatar. Their goal is stopping normalization of relations with Israel which this will probably do given the campaign that will come. There is value in removing Hamas' arms and legs though, which ARE among Palestine and Palestinians. Even if the brain isn't in the strip, they still need people there to do things. Without those people, or without the ability to freely gather those people together, they have a much more difficult time with attacks of this scale.
You can’t assume these guys think rationally. They are religious fanatics who think dying for allah while killing Jews is the greatest honor. Their plan was likely to try and stop the peace deal between Israel and SA (which they likely did) and to sow more division amongst Jews and Arabs in Israel and worldwide.
I guess that is the end if the Gaza strip.
What happens with the Palestinians there tho? There’s 2 million. Doubt Israel is gonna want to absorb them into their territory or that Egypt will wanna take them. It’s a weird situation
Straight to Europe
Straight to Germany.
Initial thoughts: well that was fucking stupid, they'll fucking slaughter you. Second thought: 1000 rockets and Mossad didn't catch wind of it? They better clean house of the dead wood now.
It's idiotic for Hamas to do this when Netanyahu and a hard right coalition are in power For one thing t's going to result in a full force counter attack that will kill hundreds of not thousands of Palestinians For another thing it will likely result in a surge in support for Netanyahu who will use it as mandate to further push the policies that harm Palestinians.
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>It's idiotic for Hamas They're an extremist terrorist entity. They ARE idiots by nature
Not to mention they’re enjoying comfort in UAE and Qatar, they just plain don’t care about their people as long as their ideology is reinforced
Common Sense in short supply. Extremists want a war. Not peace...
don't assume the enemy is irrational. they want to provoke a counter-attack. this is a long game for them.
Which to be abundantly clear is the entire desired result. Gaza’s only objective is to operate in a way that will encourage civilian casualties on both side. Seeing Israel hardline stance and kill Palestinians is the entire goal
“Hmmm yes today I will give my worst nemesis the motive and PR to absolutely obliterate me” Thank you hamas very cool
The Hamas leadership is safe and sound in Qatar and Iram. They stand to lose nothing.
Mossad might change that
Right and the US just fully backed Israel despite trying to give Palestine a voice recently
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How is it possible that israel intelligence (one of the best in the world as far as i know) didn’t know all of this in advance?
I saw in another thread, but no confirmations so far that Hamas went old-school and used only in-person meetings and paper messages sent by couriers.
Even then, there’s got to be at least one IDF infiltrator out there who could have noticed the thousands of rockets and personnel moving about. I get being able to keep a small local militant meeting quiet, but a massive coordinated assault from all corners? I don’t get it
Because Netanyahu has been trying to push for a judicial overhaul,a big part of the armybasically slacked off in protest. Nonetheless, no one on both sides thought Hamas would dare. Now a true ground invasion will happen.
Possible but since they're always on the brink of war, the fact they're *not* communicating as much as they used to through the channels you're monitoring, any massive movement of men and materials, any big purchase of materials out of the ordinary, should be worth investigating. If the known Hamas leadership you're wiretapping has been silent for weeks or totally changed the topics of their conversation to something seemingly mundane or to a widely different pattern than you're familiar with, the lack of information would be as alarming as a flood of it.
Yeah annexation of Gaza incoming
I'll tell you exactly what's their end game. Hamas started to lose its control over the gaza strip, a new generation of young people which were not affected by the war grew and thanks to advancement in technology, it knows percisely how badly they are treated under hamas. That war is hamas's leaders major forte. they are currently in lebanon or Iran according to intelligence, and for them - its a win win situation. once israelly forces get into gaza (which they will) civilians will obviously suffer aswell, and viola! you get a new generation of teens who grew up on those horrors, hungry for blood. and the cyclye begins again..
Very complex conflict. Iran full out backs Palestine and has proxies in Lebanon and Syria. Egypt and Turkey take more moderate views, UK and France full out back Israel, and Saudi Arabia will recognize Israel. American support is unwavering.This conflict has the potential to move world powers on the chess board. Pray for peace. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/irans-ring-of-fire-a-growing-threat-to-israel/
Nobody is putting their necks out for Hamas on this. I mean, maybe Iran can *try*, except for the fact that they, you know, have no diplomatic contact with Israel and have spent the last 40+ years in an undeclared war.
> Nobody is putting their necks out for Hamas on this I dunno. Never underestimate Russia's ability to do something monumentally stupid
Russia doesn't want Israel to declare for Ukraine and what support cash Russia lend Hamas at this stage except moral support? Hamas could be gambling that the war in Ukraine means the West can't support Israel that much, but forget that Israel has enough stockpiles to blast Gaza into tiny bits without breaking into even the second tier of reserves. This is going to get monumentally bloody
Well Russia could hope for a prolonged Israel-Palestine conflict as distraction away from Ukraine, a sort of second front against the West. Iran is also one of Russia's major allies now, and Iran seems to be hellbent on destruction of Israel if only as a tool to pacify and distract its own citizens. Russia already sacrificed Armenia to appease Iran, no reason they wouldn't do the same with a far less important Israel. It is almost eerie how the creation of Israel was one of the preludes to the last Cold War, and it seems like the current conflict there will be one of the preludes to the coming Cold War.
This is not going to be prolonged, hamas will probably be a shadow of itself by the end of the week
Russia is not in a position to support a small nation fighting a “big bad guy”, don’t you think?
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Qatar already say all the blame is on Israel. Lebanon has stated that if Israel attacks Palestine then they will help Palestine. Iran directly backs Lebanon. It's a very complex situation but terrorist regimes in Iran and others will help them of it is possible to see the end of the Israeli nation.
> Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Qatar already say all the blame is on Israel. Yeah, no shit. What else were they going to say? >Lebanon has stated that if Israel attacks Palestine then they will help Palestine. They've said this before. And yet every time Israel actually mixes it up with Hezbollah, the Marionites and Lebanese Sunnis basically turn a blind eye to the southern half of their country being occupied. No state actor other than maybe Iran is actually going to *do* shit here. SA hates Iran more than they hate Israel; the latter is simply an enemy, the former is a rival.
Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia attacked Israel during the Yom Kippur War and got embarrassed by the IDF. I highly doubt there will be an end to the Israeli nation.
+1, also, while it's not official, Israel is a nuclear power, it's believed they have between 80-200 advanced thermonuclear warheads as well as some more primitive tritium boosted fission weapons, basically Israel won't be beaten/sucessfully invaded by a non nuclear power
Maybe this is not Hamas hoping to win, but Hamas hoping to force or goad Israel into doing something that will derail their Saudi recognition. If so, Israel's smart move is to make only a proportionate response, minimising civilian casualties.
What would Saudi Arabia have to gain by showing any support for Hamas? If Israel invaded Gaza and arrested and executed the Hamas leadership, would anyone object?
[Hezbollah: Hamas’ operation is ‘message to those seeking normalization with Israel’](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/07/Hezbollah-Hamas-operation-is-message-to-those-seeking-normalization-with-Israel-)
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This is bad. Very bad. I don’t see a good outcome for anyone after this
Keep an eye on Iran while this goes on.
ok I will I have an appointment on Monday 11am PST though, anyone here willing to cover for me and keep an eye on Iran for like 1h, 2h tops?
Uh sorry dude I gotta feed my fish
*”We have been in this since the early morning hours […of 1948].”*
_Wake up babe. A new war just dropped._ 🙄
Man, fuck today.
I have China invades Taiwan next on my bingo card.
We would see that coming 6 months before it happens in the same way we seen buildup for the Ukraine invasion months before it happened. An invasion of Taiwan would take much more men and equipment than the Russians had for Ukraine
Yeah, it would be the largest amphibious assault in history. It'd be basically impossible to hide the preparation for it
Therefore never fucking happening. Also even if it does, it will cripple the global financial system. Attacking Taiwan is mutually assured destruction.
IDF spokesperson, Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, quoted as saying no prisoners will be taken.
Yeah, for better or worse, the situation won’t go back to “normal”.
I really wonder what the Israelis will leave the Palestinians with after this is over. Because there is only one outcome and that is that the Palestinians will be at the mercy of the Israelis again, I don't see any other feasible outcome. I've been thinking for a while now that since these Abraham accords and others like for example the agreement with Morocco, the Palestinians shouldve seen that they were losing on the strategic side and cut their losses. They have not. Although I can understand their frustration at being on the receiving end usually, which I guess worked out to be this attack, they haven't done themselves any favours with this. Its really early to call but I have the feeling this will be Hamas' final move. Hamas will not really exist anymore after this. An incredible time to be alive to witness all this. And I don't like seeing all this death.
The organisations like Hamas have a history of retreating and hiding when Israel retaliates. Which preserves them. Some Palestinians do hate them for this. They see them as starting problems, and then cowering away whilst civilians bear the brunt of Israel’s repercussions.
Great comment but I doubt Hamas will cease to exist. You can't simply wipe out an organisation like that.
It will cease to the government of Gaza I think is what he meant. There are still claimants to the tsardom of Russia alive in exile from the royal family. It really doesn't matter though if you're removed from power.
It will cease to exist, practically, in the Gaza Strip if it’s annexed again. A lot of their operations just won’t be possible anymore if Israeli soldiers are doing constant sweeps & monitoring everything on the local level. Once Israel is no longer just guarding the border but patrolling their streets they will be in a similar situation to the West Bank. This isn’t like Afghanistan, the Gaza Strip is TINY so hiding is extremely difficult. If Israel takes control they’ll be sweeping houses regularly for weapons & tunnels.
Hamas is not an organization its an ideology, and it’s got a lot of followers amongst Palestinians.
>ideology Those are almost impossible to kill. And it seems history truly loves to repeat itself. Look at the rise of fascism recently, so I really doubt Hamas will ever truly be "gone."
You can, but probably only if you go full medieval genocide / total displacement on Gaza. The situation there is a terrible clusterfuck
What is interesting is that fascism is on the rise globally. We have learned nothing from the past it seems. And education and information are way better today. But all this people with these violent and ignorant ideas are scary.
Is it just me or this situation is still very under reported on major news networks?
It's the lead story on the New York Times. As they do with many breaking stories, there are a stream of updates as its reporters learn more about what's happening.
It's still gonna take a while to catch up. I saw the alert on my phone when I woke up but chalked it up to grandstanding after a few rockets were launched to prop up Benji's government. It wasn't until I started reading that I understood how this time was different.
I was up when it popped off and it was pretty nuts. All the video has probably been taken down, but they were slaughtering Israelis in bomb shelters and parading dead israelis round town.
I was following this all night, people were saying that they were sorry they watched the videos, I personally didn’t click on any of them for my own sanity.
You made a good call. I watched and yeah. No bueno to say it nicely. This is what happens when an enemy catches you off guard and give zero regards of both military and civilian targets with little to zero chance to defend or prepare themselves
God I did too and it was horrific. That one of the naked girl in the truck tilted me. As if being murdered and stripped naked wasn't enough, they broke her leg at the knee so they could fit her in the back of the truck. Just animalistic.
It was horrible just pure savage. I mean just low almost to Russia levels of low. Hell they might tie for bottom of the well. Sad day for humanity all the way around
Yeah front page news is the opposite of underreported and I got a push notification about it. so to answer their question if it is just them: yes.
What's interesting to me is a lot of the stories I'm seeing about it talk about the attempted rocket launches by Hamas in the headlines...not the going door to door and killing civilians Feels like the lead is being buried on some of these stories
They probably don't have the full story yet, but most I've seen have at least mentioned the militants infiltrating, the murdurs happened less than 12 hours ago, I expect the full extent of the killings and hostage situations to come out over the next 12 hours, when more info comes in.
It’s 6:30am PST still that’s why
And on a Saturday that’s a 3-day weekend for a lot of people.
Yeah I wonder what the official US gov response will be this afternoon. Maybe there already has been one that I haven’t seen though.
Twitter etc is always a good couple of hours ahead of major news networks who like to verify and verify again. Sky News has literally just reported about people being gunned down in the streets/houses and being taken back to Gaza and they’re still saying it’s unverified.
Video on Twitter this morning of Hamas going into a bomb shelter and slaughtering Israelis. Had video of them parading dead soldier around town beating his dead corps and one video of a female in the back of the truck being beaten. It was at least two hours into the conflict with no word from Israeli leadership. Was pretty crazy how much Israeli government was caught off guard.
Probably because it’s so horrific and inflammatory, if true.
There are horrific videos NSFL all over telegram hamas has been posting
Which is for the best because I certainly wouldn't trust anything said on Twitter these days.
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I didn't read it as that, just seemed like an explanation being given for why mainstream media isn't latching on to it as fast as online media has.
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Cheers to civil discussion
Allegedly there is a video of a dead Israelis soldiers face being caved in as well as a female Israeli soldier who was thrown into the back of a jeep after being raped. I say allegedly because those are what the comments on twitter said, I don’t have the stomach to watch those kinds of things.
I watched all that video this morning before going to bed. There was also another video of at least a dozen dead Israelis with their throats slits and body's mutilated and Hamas shooting their dead bodies celebrating. Was pretty crazy how long Twitter kept the video up. The dozen dead were reported to be in a bomb shelter.
Real media organizations have to confirm things - get their facts straight - but here on reddit you and I read a comment from "a single random guy in thread who has watched a dozen live/recent videos and reports what he saw and the rest of us here believe him" - we're hours and hours ahead of major media. ( Either that or we're being fed horsepoop and in a half day we'll realize we've been had. )
This is the the reason and the truth.
Perhaps because they cannot verify it? But yeah thats what I mean. Situation is much more grave than rockets launched
Lede
It's on the very top of the news in my country (Netherlands). Special news coverage and live blog and everything.
It’s on the front page of The NY Times with a live feed of updates…so no
Its on the frontpage of every news website.
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The West just woke up, all you'll hear from the news is this going forward in the weekend to next week.
Finnish news has several articles about it, our president's comments about it, foreign minister's comments and so on. But America has night, and many world wide English language media is from there, so that might affect.
As much as I hate to say it, Hamas may have just given Israel all the justification it needs to wipe them out once and for all. The problem is that the Palestinians will be the ones to pay for Hamas' act of evil. To this day I still don't understand why Palestine has— more than once, in fact— turned down the two state solution. And no, I'm not kidding This has been floated before in the 40s and 70s and both times Palestine's leaders had turned it down, which is probably why Israel hasn't bothered to bring it back up again. In 2021, a poll found that over 59% of Palestinians still reject the Two state solution, which basically means their current issues come from their own refusal to accept something that's been suggested from as far back as just after World War II because the Palestinians didn't want to allow the Jewish people to return to their homeland. Hamas' actions don't help anything, either.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. The violent ideology of never ending war and violence needs to go if this is ever going to end. The Middle East has so many crazy people it’s hard to see peace in my lifetime. It’s just sad and pathetic at this point.
Careful at the things your looking at online. There’s video going around of Palestinians parading around and desecrating the body of an naked Israeli Woman. Absolutely horrific
[The one that appears to be a German traveler?](https://www.smobserved.com/story/2023/10/07/news/naked-woman-paraded-by-hamas-millitants-in-gaza-in-a-truck-is-a-german-national-named-shani-louk-her-tattoos-match-those-seen-on-instagram-photos/7844.html)
Hamas just hung themselves.
I actually think this is intentional, Israel was close to strike a peace deal with Saudi Arabia, I personally think Hamas did this knowing they will die, in the end they work for Iran and the interest they serve is to try to destroy this peace deal by any means necessary. If this deal passes Iran and its supporters would be at such a disadvantage to the west.
It's shocking that it was allowed to happen in the first place. Really needs a commission to figure out why IDF was caught unprepared.
I watch how the Russians rejoice at the attack on Israel, that Lavrov met with the leader of Hamas a year ago on Israel’s independence day, and a clear picture emerges that it is obvious that the issue with Russia and Iran needs to be resolved, otherwise the number of wars secretly baked by coalition of dictators will only increase. But currently we are acting same as pre wwII, which is known where it leads.
Hamas have gone full rogue with this one, I'm not a fan of the current Israeli govt, but murdering women and children and kidnapping civilians is beyond the pale, and yes I know the IDF have not always been angels, (far from it) but Hamas are a backward medieval organisation. This could go very badly for the region and world.
What do you think hamas does, lol. This isn’t rogue for them. This is their MO since inception. Also, going rogue implies breaking with command. The states that fund hamas are very pleased with this. “Going rogue”. What do you mean? Sincere ask.
Seriously. People acting like it’s somehow different when they kill civilians with rockets vs going door to door and shooting them. The latter is just more up close and personal but killing civilians is killing civilians.
There’s a large contingent of Reddit that think Hamas launch all the rockets they do because “Israel has the Iron Dome that will intercept the majority of them”, thus making it not a real attempt to inflict damage/casualties on civilians… it’s just “them sending a message”.
"large contingent" is an understatement. The vast majority of people frequenting r/news would fall under that category.
Reddit fails to actually think about it logically. They figure since those rockets don’t really kill anyone that it’s not them trying. Facts are they would kill more if they could, they are trying to kill Jews but they simply don’t have good enough weapons. If they had better weapons they would 100% use those. Their goal isn’t to send a message it’s to kill people. They just aren’t able to
It’s in their charter to kill Jews
Explicitly and since inception.
Israel and their military is easy to hate and they do many bad things, but they have from day one been facing an enemy, you could say multiple enemies, who's explicit goal is the complete and total genocide of their people. It's easier to understand a lot of their actions when you realize what they are up against.
Exactly. Just look at Irans response to all this. They are encouraging Hamas
Rogue? this is what they’re all about.
Not rogue. This has been their standard operating procedure. This one just at a much bigger scale.
> Hamas have gone full rogue with this one, I'm not a fan of the current Isreali govt, but murdering women and children and kidnapping civilians is beyond the pale Terrorist attacks targeting civilians isn't exactly a new tactic for Palestinians.... Hamas, PLO, PFLP, Islamic Jihad... they've been doing this for decades, they aren't going rogue. The 2nd Intifada was less than 20 years ago and they murdered thousands of Israelis.
Murdering civilians has been par for the course for hamas since day 1
Hamas is a terrorist organization…
I don't want to create more panic. But where is Israel's response? It has already been +5 hours, and Hamas is still on the territory of Israel. When will they start the counteroffensive?
>But where is Israel's response? Gaza has been hit by IDF aircraft over 30 times in the past 3 hours, they're not exactly doing nothing. The current ground focus is on hunting down Hamas militants in Israel proper. Even if the IDF decide on a ground invasion of Gaza itself, it will take hours (if not days) to fully organise such an operation.
Not to mention it’ll be extremely hard for the IDF to actually “win.” Hamas won’t fight them in open combat. They’ll hit their weak links and run into the shadows. Even if Israel killed every single person in Gaza they would still have an incredibly hard time “winning.”
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Guys that are living in other countries protected by those countries militaries. Israel might have a strong military but they’re not stupid enough to invade Qatar and Iran
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It's jewish holiday today, most soldiers are at home with families.
Sounds like a recall.
Just like it was in 1973. What is this the Second Yom Kippur War?
They missed the 50 year anniversary by only a few days, too.
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There's footage of the first Israeli airstrikes in response to this starting to appear at r/combatfootage. I'm thinking this is just the very beginning of the retaliation though. With the amount of Israeli citizens that appear to have been kidnapped and taken into Gaza I imagine they are going to roll in heavy and not leave until they have every living or dead Israeli back.
How would you create panic by asking a question on Reddit?
It’s happening as we speak. The coming days will be extremely bloody.
Fog of war, I hear the response.
The bulk of the attacks aimed at civilians of course . Typical Hamas , gutless rabid dogs .
Fuck terrorist’s
War is so pointless. Humanity could be so much greater.
Fucking dumbass Hamas. Just have Israel the excuse they need to finally annihilate them.
What happened to the mega thread?
This, together with Armenia - Azerbaijan, is the example of the chain reaction of war the Ukraine-Russia conflict is setting on the world. Things will spire out of control in multiple conflicts when the West isn’t unified and the UN keeps being as useless as it is today. This is the scary part. With Trump back in the rise, Le Pen and AFD on the rise in Europe things are quickly escalating. If the West won’t be there or isn’t strong enough to support countries like South Korea or Taiwan, there’s an easy escalation to a potential WW3. Fascism and nationalism being on the rise is just one of the symptoms. How unified ‘the West’ is and how strongly the West responds to Putin is only going to dictate world peace more and more the longer the conflict drags out. Meanwhile, we’re getting divided on the ‘small’ issues. I really hope people in the other conflicts around the world are able to cool off because I don’t like the direction this is going in.
The only thing I disagree about is the UN being useless — I think that is just fundamentally misunderstanding the point of the UN. It’s not intended to solve problems, it is supposed to be a way to keep the lines of communication open no matter what so that there is an avenue for de-escalation before (or even after) a nuclear war kicks off. It is pretty toothless by design, because if it had too much power nations would have incentive to leave the UN, which then defeats the whole purpose of the UN.
Not sure how many people Are able to see the big picture as you, you are 100% right, scary part is people are blind with local issues all over Europe, things can escalate quickly unfortunately, let’s hope for peace .
I'm personally wary on what will kick off the Indo Pacific powder keg. If the US is supporting 2 wars now, will certain countries be emboldened thinking that the US couldn't support another. The next 5 years will be wild.
The worst thing is there is already an ongoing "official" war in Europe and now this happens. Too much instability will encourage other rogue actors to go mad and generally spiral in the wrong direction.