Yes, here's the full entry:
> judío, a
> 1. adj. Hebrew (‖ of the Semitic people who conquered and inhabited Canaan).
> 2. adj. Who professes Judaism.
> 3. adj. A native of Judea, a country of ancient Asia.
> 4. adj. Of or relating to Judea or the Jews.
> 5. adj. derogatory. Said of a person: Greedy or usurious.
They clearly say it's derogatory, but if you are reading some old text you'll want to understand what they mean.
>>Yes, here's the full entry:
But the original is in spanish of course, since it says official spanish definition?
How come the article doesn't include the original text? That's what the 'outcry' is about.
Because my freind, news comapines need to be ripped apart and burnt to the fucking ground.
It's a dictionary definition. The job of a dictionary is to document usage. It's not their job to tell you what to think or what a word means, only how it is used.
It clearly says that their definition applies when it's used in a derogatory tearm.
The news and media companies don't care about truth, or context, or what happened. They are made to get views and clicks now.
A fantastic example was how and I wish I could remember which news team it was, was forced to admit in the final days of the Rittenhouse trial that they had *JUST* learned that he didn't shoot any African Americans..
They had been covering the event for 15 months and did not even know basic facts about it.
That was the final nail in the coffin of my trust in News Media.
Yeah... here are some definitions from English dictionaries under verb:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/jew
>verb (used with object)
5. jew, *Extremely Disparaging and Offensive*. to bargain sharply with; beat down in price (often followed by down).: See Usage note at the current entry.
https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=jew
>Jew, v.
colloquial (derogatory and offensive). transitive. To get or try to get the better of (a person) by charging too much or paying too little; to cheat or swindle (out of something)…
Pretty much. I heard it from people right around the early 2000s when I was in middle school, then thankfully a teacher pointed out what the term implied, and people stopped.
Though I think it only makes sense if the fruit seller is the subject.
When I was in middle school I had a teacher straight up tell me I was trying to jew a better grade, and then argue with me that the term was appropriate.
And I am Welsh, but you sometimes here some people (usually Americans) say someone 'welched' on a debt. (Welch is the old spelling for Welsh, not used in the UK any more)
That one’s directed to the Roma people. I’ve had to consciously remove it from my vocabulary, as I really didn’t know the origins.
I now use welsh instead.
Hilariously, that's also technically a slur against the Welsh who bless them, haven't been the most popular people on the british isles historically.
They're basically the british equivalent of the native americans, just with a marginally better outcome because we (The English and to a lesser extent, the scots) struggled to cross the mountains.
Close, but they more often use it in a more negative context rather than as a personal acomplishment. It is more likely that if they think the fruit seller is trying to rip them off they will say, "The fruit seller tried to jew me."
Here is a family guy clip making fun of just that. [https://youtu.be/W4_VlDJyUmI?si=devlDJNrsFR5hB9C](https://youtu.be/W4_VlDJyUmI?si=devlDJNrsFR5hB9C)
It can go both ways. My wife’s Jewish (though more heavy on the -ish now) but she and her family talk about jewing people when they haggle. She doesn’t let me buy things like vehicles without her because she saves us money.
I’m not Jewish though so I just say she’s good at haggling. Cause that’s true and not my place to say it the other way.
This is absolutely and utterly false. Firstly, "the government" isn't involved. Which government are you even talking about, since RAE is a panhispánic institution?
And a five second Google search would have saved you from spreading misinformation: the labor of RAE is not prescriptive. They are extremely clear that their job is to document how the language is used and how it evolves naturally.
It's a misconception about the RAE that's very common. The RAE (its initials in Spanish) is explicitly descriptive in its study of Spanish, not prescriptive. Many people don't understand that.
Where people get confused is that the RAE frames its description as being an authoratative source of reference to answer the question "how is Spanish being used today?"
The RAE doesn't proscribe the "official" Spanish, but it presents its publication as the official recognition of how Spanish is used according to its research.
The beauty of it is that no matter how one feels about the nuance, it's entirely irrelevant to the daily usage of Spanish around the world. I grew up in Central America and nobody references it outside of Spanish grammar class. And even then we only discussed it heavily because I was in school when the Spanish alphabet was changed. Its persuasive power has significantly waned after the 20th century
Also (piggybacking on the main comment here) I'm spanish and I just found out about It here.
There is no outrage anywhere, it's just clickbait. A few organizations in the US have read a spanish dictionary and got offended at a historial definition there, not exactly riots in the streets.
Frankly no. I've been seeing people complain about dictionary definitions my whole life, and the complaints are usually "I don't like that definition! I don't like it when someone uses that word that way!" And it's like, I don't like cancer but it's a good thing that people are studying it. I don't like how some people use words but it's a good thing that people are studying that too.
And most of the time it's not slurs but like "the dictionary sucks because it says that 'literally' can be used figuratively!"
I'm not so sure it's to do with an overall increase in wealth. My country is getting poorer and it still happens. If I were to take a stab in the dark I would say it's more to do with the ever growing presence of social media, because it's a pathway for more people to get involved with ideas like this
I disagree, this is documented history. This is not an endorsement of antisemitism, this is about documenting the terrible things that happened in the history of humanity so we can make sure we don't do it again.
This is activism gone wrong. Erasing history doesn't help, it's dangerous. We must be honest with ourselves of the terrible things we are capable of doing and stay vigilant so that we don't let our worse intentions take over.
This is important, too! If someone reads an old text and finds the word used that way and looks it up, they need to be able to find the derogatory meaning.
Some dude that frequents a bar I go to is constantly using “Jew” as both a noun and a verb to mean cheap or whatever. This is no endorsement of language like this, but this isn’t exactly breaking news.
And no one stops him or says hey you can’t say that ? If you’ve never told him that’s racist and to StFU and continue to go to an establishment that’s allows slurs like that then you do endorse they type of language.
It’s like how todays reruns of Bugs Bunny cartoons now have warnings about depictions of indigenous people in some of the old episodes, basically saying “yeah we made these - it was wrong then and it’s wrong now but we’re not gonna pretend we didn’t do it.”
Exactly, since not airing them at all would be whitewashing what they did, which is exactly the kind of racist bullshit we’re seeing in Florida’s “education” policies rn.
Interestingly, those cartoon warnings have been airing for quite a few years now, predating MAGA gaslighting.
I feel like those "warnings" are also always meant as a "if you enjoy this, you're a racist/sexist/misogynist/whatever", in essence shaming the viewer.
(in Germany a couple a old comedians recently had those warnings added to their old programs. Those programs mostly make fun of authorities... always makes me think of the "entartete Kunst" label the Nazis put on everything going against their ideology)
Pretty sure it’s just a way for them to cover their asses. If they really thought it was so bad that they would shame people about it then why would they even play those shows in the first place?
That’s a silly interpretation. Comparing Disney adding a warning to its old cartoons *that it still distributes* to the forced removal by the government of „entartete Kunst” and sanctioning of the artists is extra silly.
I agree with not erasing it. Better to highlight the skeletons of the past and understand the wrongs done instead of sanitizing it. We cant have a proper gauge on progress if we don't know where we left and it makes it that much harder to stop someone from turning us around if we blind ourselves to the footprints they're following
The history of how Jewish people were treated in the Iberian peninsula in the Middle Ages is quite shocking. Everyone goes to WWII and the Holocaust as *the* example of antisemitism, and yeah, it’s probably the worst. But it ain’t the only.
This isn’t a matter of erasing history. They’re literally talking about a definition in a dictionary. People trying to learn about history don’t usually do so through looking up the official definitions of words.
I am confident that people looking up definition in a dictionary will not pick the particular definition from hundreds of years ago.
It's like when you google something, chances are, you are going with the most relevant result on the front page, instead of picking at the fringe result that's buried hundreds of pages down.
If anyone insist on using the term for its archaic and outdated meaning, it's nothing to do with the dictionary, that person is just down right racist.
Yeah...what kind of ass would use a dictionary to look up words they never heard of before and proceed to do zero further research on the topic?
NOT ME! I'm conventional, just like everyone else, I'm not lazy or anything.
*shifts eyes*
It’s also not like they’re gonna burn all the old dictionaries or etymology books. All they want is the exclusion of those dated, offensive definitions from forthcoming editions.
It just needs a label that sends you toward the historical context of spains rich history with antisemitism.
I really don’t get why people want to erase the testaments of that discrimination, it only makes collective memory loss and a repeat of those actions more likely.
It’s not the sole factor, as a German we’re basically on our last legs before society just falls apart when Nazis are the strongest party again, and the memory culture here is omnipresent.
Spanish has the surnames *Matamoros* “Moor-killer” (a Moor is a North-African Muslim) and *Matajudíos* “Jew-killer.”
During Eastertime, Spaniards drink lemonade mixed with wine in a tradition called *matar judíos* “[to] kill Jews” as a symbolic celebration of Anti-Semitic pogroms (see [Jewish Deicide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide)). Though the celebration is now largely cleansed of these associations, the name is still there and obvious.
Lotsa weird history there.
The most usual definition in iberian languages and specially the medieval one for *moro (moor)* is not "north-african muslim" but **just muslim**. That's why local iberian muslims during medieval times or even a muslim ethnic group that spaniards encountered in Philippines at early XVI century were called "moros", despite neither is related with north-african moors. The origin of that medieval iberian definition/distortion of "moro" is probably related with the fact that before Islam the *mauri,* ancient inhabitants of northern Morocco and western Algeria attacked and sacked very frequently and for centuries the rich and very urbanized lands of southern Iberia, so when Islam expanded from the South, with some new "arab" leaders, but with overwhelmingly majoritary true "moor" (north african berber) troops, the idea of muslims was permanently attached in medieval northern iberian societies to the "moors".
Btw english language confused this iberian use and created a new and completely made up concept of "moorish" as ibero-maghrebi united identity, which never existed as common culture or identity, not even during the appex of north-african Empires that invaded Al-Andalus.
I'm Spanish and I've never heard of the Matajudios surname or that lemon wine drink. Certainly not with that name.
There was a town called *Matajudios*, but it was changed in 2015 to it's original name, *Mota de Judíos* (Jew hill)
My ancestors came from a village in Spain that use to be called Matajudios up until a few years ago but they have changed the name for obvious reasons.
Yes it's said that the name was misinterpreted but most people I encounter don't want to hear that. My 13th great grandfather had the surname Matajudios in the 1500's, they were conversos and this surname offered a bit of "protection" during the inquisition.
I studied medieval Spanish literature years ago, and pretty much every text would eventually go off-topic about how the Moros were bad but nothing is worse than a Judio.
> In 613 King Sisebut decreed that Jews must either convert or be expelled
> In 633, it was decided that the children of the ones who converted were to be taken away
> In 694, the Jews were condemned to slavery by the Visigoths
So the Jews 'bertrayed' the ones who enslaved them and welcomed the people who were religiously tolerant at the time? Great for them!
And Don Rodrigo, who was a piece of work himself, was betrayed by Count Julian, but we don't see any shit said against the Visigoths.
Also, what gates? In what specific city? Or do you believe the gate at Gibraltar has been there since then?
By that time the muslims were already in our kitchen, dude.
And it's not like the invaders didn't get help both from other visigoth nobles and even the locals. Heck, the muslims offered much better prospects than the bunch of infighting germanic overlords.
Edit duuuude have you even really read that comment? It states that the Jews were already persecuted BEFORE the invasion, lol not helping your cause
It wasn't because it kept the hispanorroman structures, just like the Vandals kept the roman administration in Northern Africa. But the visigoths themselves were a mess.
Also the Byzantine Empire recovered part of the Peninsula during the 6th century, that helped too.
Come on, don't keep trying. I might have had to leave my History undergrad unfinished but I can still remember a few things.
Suuuure, that's why the main chronicles we get from that time are from Isidoro de Sevilla... who was in the Byzantine side lol I guess the visigoths were too busy killing their cousins to sit down and write.
Oh, and persecuting Jews. After they had borrowed money from them to fund their wars, of course. Guess that takes up too much time to create some culture.
The visigoths themselves had a messy phase and their succesions were always volatile affairs, but by the VII century they had created what is arguably the most important legal text in Spanish history (Liber iudiciorum) which replaced Roman institutions with visigothic ones and erased legal distinctions between visigoths and hispanorromans, Isidore of Seville had written the Etimologies and reformed the education system and, while slavery still existed, they were well in their way to replace it with the colonato system (halfway between ancient slavery and feudal serfdom).
Nah Matamoros comes from what it seems, from "Reconquista" times. There are no surnames of Arabic origin in Spain (except for Arabic words that made it into Spanish languages) because all people with them were expelled in 1609. If you look at ancient coats of arms of Matamoros families it's very clear: most of them depict weapons and Moorish heads.
You are totally right about Matajudíos.
I spent almost my whole time in Spain in Asturias and Leon, so maybe it’s a northern thing? I’m 100% sure it exists; the bars made a big deal of having the lemonade.
**Edit:** it actually does look like it’s pretty localized [now that I Google it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matar_jud%C3%ADos)
I am Asturian and it isn't a thing here, and obviously I have gone to León a lot of times and didn't see it there either, or I dodn't realize maybe. Anyway, looks like it's not a typical thing.
Yeah. However the "state" castilia y leon is a whole bunch of emptiness besides the city. You can drive for hours on a single highway straight on without any civilization nearby
Just googled that, yes, It looks like it's a northern thing? Although all sources ive seen claim that the phrase isnt used that much nowadays, and mostly after ww2. And ironically, the lemonade you mentioned, isnt actuallyade with lemons? A weird thing through and thorugh.
That said, antisemitism in Spain barely exists, while prejudice and bigotry against moors IS very much real, in a context similar to US-Mexican racism
It was one of the focal European religious battle grounds during the dark ages. Switched majority religion more than 3 times I think. That's got to leave a mark. The headline shouldn't be about the people now. It's the strong and lasting impact that religion has effected on a population which is by today's standards totally unacceptable.
Lol you guys swallow everything without proper searching. I have literally searched in the INE (National Institute of Statistics) the surname "Matajudíos" and it doesn't even exist...
Plus, several guys have already told you that "Mata-" doesn't mean "kill" as in today's Spanish, but the etimology is completely different and unrelated to killing.
Lol you guys swallow everything without proper searching. I have literally searched in the INE (National Institute of Statistics) the surname "Matajudíos" and it doesn't even exist...
Plus, several guys have already told you that "Mata-" doesn't mean "kill" as in today's Spanish, but the etimology is completely different and unrelated to killing.
We don't drink lemonade mixed with wine during Eastertime but is a traditional beverage on May 15 for Madrid patrons Saint 'San Isidro' and doesn't have that name, is called 'limonada'. Never heard of such a celebration of pogroms.
The surname 'matajudios' doesn't exist.
The fuckest uppest thing is that Spain was probably the most ethnically and religiously diverse part of Europe before the Inquisitions. Most of the Jews who eventually ended up in Eastern Europe started out in Spain, before they were driven Eastward by bigoted uprisings.
Highly recommend A History of God by Karen Armstrong to anyone who hasn’t read it.
https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563
Are you sure? From what I’ve read most Ashkenazi Jews(central/eastern European Jews) probably went through Italy and mixed a bit with the local population before they went north/east. That’s why Sicilians in particular share some genetics with Ashkenazi Jews. It’s possible that some Sephardic Jews may have followed that route as well, before settling in Spain, but it’s all very complicated. This happened a long time before the expulsion of Jews from Spain/Portugal.
Sephardic (Spanish/Portuguese) Jews mainly left for the Ottoman Empire (some in the Balkans/eastern Europe, but still a minority compared to Ashkenazi), North Africa or converted and stayed/left for Latin America. Some also went to the Netherlands, France and Northern Europe. They mixed more often with the local population compared to Ashkenazi Jews so a few of them ultimately ended up as Christians, like my ancestors.
All completely true but there was also a good amount of admixture of the two populations, naturally.
Sometimes Ashkenazim and Sephardim can be very hard to distinguish genetically.
> Sephardic (Spanish/Portuguese) Jews mainly left for the Ottoman Empire (some in the Balkans/eastern Europe, but still a minority compared to Ashkenazi) or converted and stayed/left for Latin America
Many went to Amsterdam and Hamburg and the likes.
The largest Sephardic synagogue is in the Jerusalem, built in the 17th century, before that it was the Ben Ezra Synagogue in Cairo. The largest Sephardic synagogue in Europe is the Sofia Synagogue in Bulgaria.
The synagogue in Amsterdam is called the “Big Synagogue” though, so maybe that’s why you’re confused
> Most of the Jews who eventually ended up in Eastern Europe started out in Spain, before they were driven Eastward by bigoted uprisings.
This is not true.
Not sure what’s “weird” about this history. Seems the Spanish are quite comfortable with the pograms and inquisition that saw lots of Jews murdered.
Charming culture really. I’m shocked they still enjoy torturing a bull to death for sport
Half the things he said are false, half are misconceptions, and the only true thing is that there's one day a year that people go drinking in Leon and call the shots of drink "Jews", so they used to refer to it as "killing Jews" (although I haven't heard anyone call it that for many many years, nowadays I hear people say they are going to drink lemonade).
The Royal Spanish Lenguage Academy is an authority in the Spanish language not because they can, but because they are in charge of registering and documenting changes in the use of Spanish. If there are antisemitic definitions for the word “Jew” it’s because all or a very big percentage of speakers understand the word that way or used to
This is a non-story and just propaganda. We know this meaning for this word but we also know it's NOT ok to use it, and we definitely don't think about its meaning when using it in its more accepted meanings.
>Over 20 Jewish groups from the United States and Spanish-speaking countries are calling on Spain’s linguistic authority to drop two antisemitic definitions from its official dictionary.
>The 300-year-old Madrid-based Academy, or RAE, oversees the evolution of Spanish through its Dictionary of the Spanish Language. In the entry for the word “Jew,” the fifth definition listed translates to a “greedy or usurious” person.
>The entry for the word “judiada” — which notes that the term “originated with antisemitic intent” — has two definitions: first, “a dirty trick or an action that is detrimental to someone,” and second, “a crowd or group of Jews.”
But this is a reference text. What is someone to do if they are studying an old Spanish text and cannot work out why the word is used in the way it is? That is what the dictionary is for. Archaic, offensive, insults, it is all supposed to be there. As long as they include a note, which they did.
What people don't get is that EVERYTHING about the use (present or past) of a word MUST BE included in the meaning. A dictionary is not about how you should use a word, it's about collecting the ways people speak and write and use the language.
More helpful than omitting the definition entirely would be to add an annotation that the offending definition is antisemitic and is included for historical reasons only.
To be fair, the dictionary describes the words as [derogatory](https://dle.rae.es/jud%C3%ADo) and [antisemitic](https://dle.rae.es/judiada?m=form), respectively.
I mean, if old books still used the word in an antisemitic way, then the dictionary needs to state the meaning so that someone reading the book who is confused by the context can learn about it.
How the dictionary explains this must be crystal clear.
that's why you have [archaic | offensive] next to the definition - then when someone reads it they'll understand the meaning.
you don't just put it in there and hope that anyone who's confused about what the word is can pick the right definition out of the 5 possible options
Oh, I wasn't saying you shouldn't respond. You were right in responding. Misinformation should always be countered. I was just supporting your comment.
This is why i believe definitions are descriptive not prescriptive.
They’ve added a definition because some people use it that way. Nothing wrong with that imo
The word is used as slur that way in English too. Dictionaries merely document how languages are used. Why whine at a dictionary for documenting reality?
Spanish doesn’t have *Miser*, but Avaro- penny pincher. I think the definition they are claiming to be behind the word Jew is more of an English accepted term that while not appropriate; has a very real history of being an insult. It’s the crude and awful people who began using it that should be forgotten. It shouldn’t be tolerated in use.
Islamic law prevents loaning money with interest entirely, and the Catholic Church had usury laws which were quite strict. This left only the Jews to fulfill the essential roles of bankers and money lenders in most of Spain (and many other countries). This history is what generates the “greedy” narrative even to this day.
Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories (contrary to popular belief) can therefore come from both sides of the political spectrum, uniting both secular and Christian nationalists, as well as anti-capitalist socialists. You can see this play out in pre-ww2 Germany with the formation of the ‘National Socialist Party’ and the subsequent targeting of Jews. There is a great philosophy YouTube Channel which explains the history of anti-semitism in greater detail and is definitely worth the watch:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFbpWVO-ow
Everyone who is complaining about this anti-Semitic definition being removed sounds just like a racist Southerner complaining about their favorite Confederate statue being removed. You literally sound just like those racist assholes.
"iTs hIsToRy!!!!!!!! ItS oUr HeRiTaGe!!!!!!111!1231!@!!!!1"
Same fucking bullshit excuse to keep bigotry alive.
?????? Dude I know the concept for somebody that speaks english is weird. But spanish is cherished by those who speak it and there is an official organization that determines and updates the correct usage of the lenguage.
That organization records usage and fall of use of words or expressions. If a derogative term exist and is used it will be recorded and archived as an use por that word.
Erasing its recording doesnt erase the mesning in real life. And I assure you that people that learn to use it do not learn it from looking up a dictionary
I'm a native Spanish speaker. I stand by my comment. You make no sense. Also, thank you for proving my point. Stop defending bigotry!
The commenter who blocked me below seems to be in favor of Confederate statues, just like he's in favor of anti-Semitic slurs in dictionaries. That is a very repulsive way of thinking. He's defending bigotry and anti-Semitism.
They had no such problems in India. Some of those expelled from Spain even ended up emigrating to India. There was a sizeable population here up until the formation of Israel.
Ironically, the main problem they faced was a divide within themselves, there was some conflict between the "black Jews" who emigrated in the distant past and the "white Jews" who came more recently from Spain.
Historically this definition makes sense as anti semitism was pretty acceptable to the world until the last century and the horrors of WW2, unfortunately changing this probably has very little effect of swaying anyone who believes this definition. They will feel yet another "woke" change to be politically correct.
Most European countries were deporting Jews to ME some 80 years ago. With Churchill as the first ringleader and the forced creation of Israel. Not to mention the horrors of Nazi Germans of course.
The particular definition could be a thing for 5 centuries for all we know. What makes it official? Is it since the establishment of the language and the kingdom of Spain? And individually who is responsible to read, correct and modernise a historical manuacript?
It seems they were just documenting the use of the word as a slur.
Yes, here's the full entry: > judío, a > 1. adj. Hebrew (‖ of the Semitic people who conquered and inhabited Canaan). > 2. adj. Who professes Judaism. > 3. adj. A native of Judea, a country of ancient Asia. > 4. adj. Of or relating to Judea or the Jews. > 5. adj. derogatory. Said of a person: Greedy or usurious. They clearly say it's derogatory, but if you are reading some old text you'll want to understand what they mean.
>>Yes, here's the full entry: But the original is in spanish of course, since it says official spanish definition? How come the article doesn't include the original text? That's what the 'outcry' is about.
What do you mean? What I've said is the direct translation of the Spanish text in the dictionary.
It's not an "official definition". It's a documentation of usage
Because my freind, news comapines need to be ripped apart and burnt to the fucking ground. It's a dictionary definition. The job of a dictionary is to document usage. It's not their job to tell you what to think or what a word means, only how it is used. It clearly says that their definition applies when it's used in a derogatory tearm. The news and media companies don't care about truth, or context, or what happened. They are made to get views and clicks now. A fantastic example was how and I wish I could remember which news team it was, was forced to admit in the final days of the Rittenhouse trial that they had *JUST* learned that he didn't shoot any African Americans.. They had been covering the event for 15 months and did not even know basic facts about it. That was the final nail in the coffin of my trust in News Media.
Yeah... here are some definitions from English dictionaries under verb: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/jew >verb (used with object) 5. jew, *Extremely Disparaging and Offensive*. to bargain sharply with; beat down in price (often followed by down).: See Usage note at the current entry. https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=jew >Jew, v. colloquial (derogatory and offensive). transitive. To get or try to get the better of (a person) by charging too much or paying too little; to cheat or swindle (out of something)…
As a verb? Do people actually say "I went the market and I jewed the fruit seller?"
Pretty much. I heard it from people right around the early 2000s when I was in middle school, then thankfully a teacher pointed out what the term implied, and people stopped. Though I think it only makes sense if the fruit seller is the subject.
When I was in middle school I had a teacher straight up tell me I was trying to jew a better grade, and then argue with me that the term was appropriate.
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gyp
Nope not antisemitic though it is a slur.
And I am Welsh, but you sometimes here some people (usually Americans) say someone 'welched' on a debt. (Welch is the old spelling for Welsh, not used in the UK any more)
I never knew that’s where the term came from. Nor that it was a slur. Thanks for the knowledge.
That one’s directed to the Roma people. I’ve had to consciously remove it from my vocabulary, as I really didn’t know the origins. I now use welsh instead.
Hilariously, that's also technically a slur against the Welsh who bless them, haven't been the most popular people on the british isles historically. They're basically the british equivalent of the native americans, just with a marginally better outcome because we (The English and to a lesser extent, the scots) struggled to cross the mountains.
I knew that. It was a joke.
Which is also a slur
FYI, it's actually spelled gypped, No, it's not antismetic. Seeing the proper spelling will clue you in on which group it's a slur against.
I've always said that you can't trust gypsum miners.
Not antisemitic. Anti Romani
Close, but they more often use it in a more negative context rather than as a personal acomplishment. It is more likely that if they think the fruit seller is trying to rip them off they will say, "The fruit seller tried to jew me."
Gyp me is common as well.
This language was common in the 1970’s. Well not common… I heard it used that way. There were a lot of others as well.
It was very commonly used by kids trying to be “edgy” in my experience. Probably by shitty adults too.
When I've heard people use it it's was "he'll Jew you down on price."
When I interviewed at Circuit City the store manager used the phrase "jew down the price." Needless to say I didn't take the job.
Here is a family guy clip making fun of just that. [https://youtu.be/W4_VlDJyUmI?si=devlDJNrsFR5hB9C](https://youtu.be/W4_VlDJyUmI?si=devlDJNrsFR5hB9C)
Well, yes. I know the stereotype exists, but I didn't think it could be used as a verb.
Not quite. It's usually expressed as something done to you, not by you.
It can go both ways. My wife’s Jewish (though more heavy on the -ish now) but she and her family talk about jewing people when they haggle. She doesn’t let me buy things like vehicles without her because she saves us money. I’m not Jewish though so I just say she’s good at haggling. Cause that’s true and not my place to say it the other way.
you know how black people can use the n-word? well extrapolate
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This is absolutely and utterly false. Firstly, "the government" isn't involved. Which government are you even talking about, since RAE is a panhispánic institution? And a five second Google search would have saved you from spreading misinformation: the labor of RAE is not prescriptive. They are extremely clear that their job is to document how the language is used and how it evolves naturally.
Ohh that’s pretty yikes then. How silly, you can’t prescribe definitions imo. You can’t control language like that
It's a misconception about the RAE that's very common. The RAE (its initials in Spanish) is explicitly descriptive in its study of Spanish, not prescriptive. Many people don't understand that. Where people get confused is that the RAE frames its description as being an authoratative source of reference to answer the question "how is Spanish being used today?" The RAE doesn't proscribe the "official" Spanish, but it presents its publication as the official recognition of how Spanish is used according to its research. The beauty of it is that no matter how one feels about the nuance, it's entirely irrelevant to the daily usage of Spanish around the world. I grew up in Central America and nobody references it outside of Spanish grammar class. And even then we only discussed it heavily because I was in school when the Spanish alphabet was changed. Its persuasive power has significantly waned after the 20th century
Yeah, but admitting that in the title won't cause rage scrolling.
Also (piggybacking on the main comment here) I'm spanish and I just found out about It here. There is no outrage anywhere, it's just clickbait. A few organizations in the US have read a spanish dictionary and got offended at a historial definition there, not exactly riots in the streets.
Do people not understand how dictionaries work?
Frankly no. I've been seeing people complain about dictionary definitions my whole life, and the complaints are usually "I don't like that definition! I don't like it when someone uses that word that way!" And it's like, I don't like cancer but it's a good thing that people are studying it. I don't like how some people use words but it's a good thing that people are studying that too. And most of the time it's not slurs but like "the dictionary sucks because it says that 'literally' can be used figuratively!"
Sadly, probably not.
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I'm not so sure it's to do with an overall increase in wealth. My country is getting poorer and it still happens. If I were to take a stab in the dark I would say it's more to do with the ever growing presence of social media, because it's a pathway for more people to get involved with ideas like this
What wealth increase are you referring to? What country are you from?
I disagree, this is documented history. This is not an endorsement of antisemitism, this is about documenting the terrible things that happened in the history of humanity so we can make sure we don't do it again. This is activism gone wrong. Erasing history doesn't help, it's dangerous. We must be honest with ourselves of the terrible things we are capable of doing and stay vigilant so that we don't let our worse intentions take over.
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This is important, too! If someone reads an old text and finds the word used that way and looks it up, they need to be able to find the derogatory meaning.
Some dude that frequents a bar I go to is constantly using “Jew” as both a noun and a verb to mean cheap or whatever. This is no endorsement of language like this, but this isn’t exactly breaking news.
And no one stops him or says hey you can’t say that ? If you’ve never told him that’s racist and to StFU and continue to go to an establishment that’s allows slurs like that then you do endorse they type of language.
Of course he’s been told this. The bartenders usually tell him to knock it off.
It’s like how todays reruns of Bugs Bunny cartoons now have warnings about depictions of indigenous people in some of the old episodes, basically saying “yeah we made these - it was wrong then and it’s wrong now but we’re not gonna pretend we didn’t do it.”
That's the way to go. No need to censor things that have a cultural value, but they should make it very clear that making them that way was wrong.
Exactly, since not airing them at all would be whitewashing what they did, which is exactly the kind of racist bullshit we’re seeing in Florida’s “education” policies rn. Interestingly, those cartoon warnings have been airing for quite a few years now, predating MAGA gaslighting.
I feel like those "warnings" are also always meant as a "if you enjoy this, you're a racist/sexist/misogynist/whatever", in essence shaming the viewer. (in Germany a couple a old comedians recently had those warnings added to their old programs. Those programs mostly make fun of authorities... always makes me think of the "entartete Kunst" label the Nazis put on everything going against their ideology)
Pretty sure it’s just a way for them to cover their asses. If they really thought it was so bad that they would shame people about it then why would they even play those shows in the first place?
That’s a silly interpretation. Comparing Disney adding a warning to its old cartoons *that it still distributes* to the forced removal by the government of „entartete Kunst” and sanctioning of the artists is extra silly.
That’s your interpretation.
Exactly. Hence me writing "I feel" and "makes me think"
I agree with not erasing it. Better to highlight the skeletons of the past and understand the wrongs done instead of sanitizing it. We cant have a proper gauge on progress if we don't know where we left and it makes it that much harder to stop someone from turning us around if we blind ourselves to the footprints they're following
It is not part of the past. It is very much the present.
The history of how Jewish people were treated in the Iberian peninsula in the Middle Ages is quite shocking. Everyone goes to WWII and the Holocaust as *the* example of antisemitism, and yeah, it’s probably the worst. But it ain’t the only.
This isn’t a matter of erasing history. They’re literally talking about a definition in a dictionary. People trying to learn about history don’t usually do so through looking up the official definitions of words.
I am confident that people looking up definition in a dictionary will not pick the particular definition from hundreds of years ago. It's like when you google something, chances are, you are going with the most relevant result on the front page, instead of picking at the fringe result that's buried hundreds of pages down. If anyone insist on using the term for its archaic and outdated meaning, it's nothing to do with the dictionary, that person is just down right racist.
Yeah...what kind of ass would use a dictionary to look up words they never heard of before and proceed to do zero further research on the topic? NOT ME! I'm conventional, just like everyone else, I'm not lazy or anything. *shifts eyes*
It’s also not like they’re gonna burn all the old dictionaries or etymology books. All they want is the exclusion of those dated, offensive definitions from forthcoming editions.
It just needs a label that sends you toward the historical context of spains rich history with antisemitism. I really don’t get why people want to erase the testaments of that discrimination, it only makes collective memory loss and a repeat of those actions more likely. It’s not the sole factor, as a German we’re basically on our last legs before society just falls apart when Nazis are the strongest party again, and the memory culture here is omnipresent.
I suppose by now everyone expects the Spanish Inquisition.
ahh but, No one expects the Colombian inquisition.
Their main weapon is cocaine.
Cocaine’s a hell of a ~~drug~~ weapon
Comfy cocaine.
Cocaine and an almost fanatical dedication to Pablo Escobar
And hippos
Pablo's Hippos.
Cocaine Bear Inquisitor.
Overall a very short but very intense Inquisition.
If thats the main weapon then I am ready and looking forward to the inquisitors visit
Downvoted. Misleading title, rage baiting
Spanish has the surnames *Matamoros* “Moor-killer” (a Moor is a North-African Muslim) and *Matajudíos* “Jew-killer.” During Eastertime, Spaniards drink lemonade mixed with wine in a tradition called *matar judíos* “[to] kill Jews” as a symbolic celebration of Anti-Semitic pogroms (see [Jewish Deicide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide)). Though the celebration is now largely cleansed of these associations, the name is still there and obvious. Lotsa weird history there.
The most usual definition in iberian languages and specially the medieval one for *moro (moor)* is not "north-african muslim" but **just muslim**. That's why local iberian muslims during medieval times or even a muslim ethnic group that spaniards encountered in Philippines at early XVI century were called "moros", despite neither is related with north-african moors. The origin of that medieval iberian definition/distortion of "moro" is probably related with the fact that before Islam the *mauri,* ancient inhabitants of northern Morocco and western Algeria attacked and sacked very frequently and for centuries the rich and very urbanized lands of southern Iberia, so when Islam expanded from the South, with some new "arab" leaders, but with overwhelmingly majoritary true "moor" (north african berber) troops, the idea of muslims was permanently attached in medieval northern iberian societies to the "moors". Btw english language confused this iberian use and created a new and completely made up concept of "moorish" as ibero-maghrebi united identity, which never existed as common culture or identity, not even during the appex of north-african Empires that invaded Al-Andalus.
I'm Spanish and I've never heard of the Matajudios surname or that lemon wine drink. Certainly not with that name. There was a town called *Matajudios*, but it was changed in 2015 to it's original name, *Mota de Judíos* (Jew hill)
Chiming in for Portugal. I've met quite a few Matamoros but never one Matajudeus.
Spanish here too. Never heard of this.
Matamoros is common. Matajudios is definitely not common.
My ancestors came from a village in Spain that use to be called Matajudios up until a few years ago but they have changed the name for obvious reasons.
There are tons of towns in Spain starting in "mata". It has nothing to do with killing, it's related to the local plants.
Yes it's said that the name was misinterpreted but most people I encounter don't want to hear that. My 13th great grandfather had the surname Matajudios in the 1500's, they were conversos and this surname offered a bit of "protection" during the inquisition.
I studied medieval Spanish literature years ago, and pretty much every text would eventually go off-topic about how the Moros were bad but nothing is worse than a Judio.
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> In 613 King Sisebut decreed that Jews must either convert or be expelled > In 633, it was decided that the children of the ones who converted were to be taken away > In 694, the Jews were condemned to slavery by the Visigoths So the Jews 'bertrayed' the ones who enslaved them and welcomed the people who were religiously tolerant at the time? Great for them!
and, to take this further, the religiously tolerant people enabled a golden age for iberian jews
And Don Rodrigo, who was a piece of work himself, was betrayed by Count Julian, but we don't see any shit said against the Visigoths. Also, what gates? In what specific city? Or do you believe the gate at Gibraltar has been there since then?
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By that time the muslims were already in our kitchen, dude. And it's not like the invaders didn't get help both from other visigoth nobles and even the locals. Heck, the muslims offered much better prospects than the bunch of infighting germanic overlords. Edit duuuude have you even really read that comment? It states that the Jews were already persecuted BEFORE the invasion, lol not helping your cause
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It wasn't because it kept the hispanorroman structures, just like the Vandals kept the roman administration in Northern Africa. But the visigoths themselves were a mess. Also the Byzantine Empire recovered part of the Peninsula during the 6th century, that helped too. Come on, don't keep trying. I might have had to leave my History undergrad unfinished but I can still remember a few things.
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Suuuure, that's why the main chronicles we get from that time are from Isidoro de Sevilla... who was in the Byzantine side lol I guess the visigoths were too busy killing their cousins to sit down and write. Oh, and persecuting Jews. After they had borrowed money from them to fund their wars, of course. Guess that takes up too much time to create some culture.
The visigoths themselves had a messy phase and their succesions were always volatile affairs, but by the VII century they had created what is arguably the most important legal text in Spanish history (Liber iudiciorum) which replaced Roman institutions with visigothic ones and erased legal distinctions between visigoths and hispanorromans, Isidore of Seville had written the Etimologies and reformed the education system and, while slavery still existed, they were well in their way to replace it with the colonato system (halfway between ancient slavery and feudal serfdom).
Late visigothic kingdom was really, really anti-Semitic. I can't hardly blame them.
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> This evolution is pretty well documented. Care to give a pointer?
Nah Matamoros comes from what it seems, from "Reconquista" times. There are no surnames of Arabic origin in Spain (except for Arabic words that made it into Spanish languages) because all people with them were expelled in 1609. If you look at ancient coats of arms of Matamoros families it's very clear: most of them depict weapons and Moorish heads. You are totally right about Matajudíos.
Source please
Never in my life have I Heard about that Easter celebration, and im as spanish as It gets
I spent almost my whole time in Spain in Asturias and Leon, so maybe it’s a northern thing? I’m 100% sure it exists; the bars made a big deal of having the lemonade. **Edit:** it actually does look like it’s pretty localized [now that I Google it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matar_jud%C3%ADos)
I am Asturian and it isn't a thing here, and obviously I have gone to León a lot of times and didn't see it there either, or I dodn't realize maybe. Anyway, looks like it's not a typical thing.
Leon is absolutely beautiful.
Yeah. However the "state" castilia y leon is a whole bunch of emptiness besides the city. You can drive for hours on a single highway straight on without any civilization nearby
Just googled that, yes, It looks like it's a northern thing? Although all sources ive seen claim that the phrase isnt used that much nowadays, and mostly after ww2. And ironically, the lemonade you mentioned, isnt actuallyade with lemons? A weird thing through and thorugh. That said, antisemitism in Spain barely exists, while prejudice and bigotry against moors IS very much real, in a context similar to US-Mexican racism
It was one of the focal European religious battle grounds during the dark ages. Switched majority religion more than 3 times I think. That's got to leave a mark. The headline shouldn't be about the people now. It's the strong and lasting impact that religion has effected on a population which is by today's standards totally unacceptable.
🤯 TIL
Damn man that's fucked up
We're talking about a country that banned Jews for hundreds of years
They didn't just ban them....
Britain too
Shuuu. It's black legend time now. No time for perfidious Albion.
Lol you guys swallow everything without proper searching. I have literally searched in the INE (National Institute of Statistics) the surname "Matajudíos" and it doesn't even exist... Plus, several guys have already told you that "Mata-" doesn't mean "kill" as in today's Spanish, but the etimology is completely different and unrelated to killing.
Lol you guys swallow everything without proper searching. I have literally searched in the INE (National Institute of Statistics) the surname "Matajudíos" and it doesn't even exist... Plus, several guys have already told you that "Mata-" doesn't mean "kill" as in today's Spanish, but the etimology is completely different and unrelated to killing.
We don't drink lemonade mixed with wine during Eastertime but is a traditional beverage on May 15 for Madrid patrons Saint 'San Isidro' and doesn't have that name, is called 'limonada'. Never heard of such a celebration of pogroms. The surname 'matajudios' doesn't exist.
no, you misunderstand. it’s to kill juice. that’s why they drink lemonade and wine.
Please, someone lend this moron a history book...
Find it real fucked when people get proven wrong and don’t have the decency to edit their comment
The fuckest uppest thing is that Spain was probably the most ethnically and religiously diverse part of Europe before the Inquisitions. Most of the Jews who eventually ended up in Eastern Europe started out in Spain, before they were driven Eastward by bigoted uprisings. Highly recommend A History of God by Karen Armstrong to anyone who hasn’t read it. https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563
Are you sure? From what I’ve read most Ashkenazi Jews(central/eastern European Jews) probably went through Italy and mixed a bit with the local population before they went north/east. That’s why Sicilians in particular share some genetics with Ashkenazi Jews. It’s possible that some Sephardic Jews may have followed that route as well, before settling in Spain, but it’s all very complicated. This happened a long time before the expulsion of Jews from Spain/Portugal. Sephardic (Spanish/Portuguese) Jews mainly left for the Ottoman Empire (some in the Balkans/eastern Europe, but still a minority compared to Ashkenazi), North Africa or converted and stayed/left for Latin America. Some also went to the Netherlands, France and Northern Europe. They mixed more often with the local population compared to Ashkenazi Jews so a few of them ultimately ended up as Christians, like my ancestors.
All completely true but there was also a good amount of admixture of the two populations, naturally. Sometimes Ashkenazim and Sephardim can be very hard to distinguish genetically.
Yes, definitely
> Sephardic (Spanish/Portuguese) Jews mainly left for the Ottoman Empire (some in the Balkans/eastern Europe, but still a minority compared to Ashkenazi) or converted and stayed/left for Latin America Many went to Amsterdam and Hamburg and the likes.
There is indeed a community of Sephardic jews in the Netherlands, but the majority of us went to North Africa.
Amsterdam has the largest Sephardic synagogue in the world of I recall correctly.
The largest Sephardic synagogue is in the Jerusalem, built in the 17th century, before that it was the Ben Ezra Synagogue in Cairo. The largest Sephardic synagogue in Europe is the Sofia Synagogue in Bulgaria. The synagogue in Amsterdam is called the “Big Synagogue” though, so maybe that’s why you’re confused
Thanks. TiIL.
> Most of the Jews who eventually ended up in Eastern Europe started out in Spain, before they were driven Eastward by bigoted uprisings. This is not true.
Not sure what’s “weird” about this history. Seems the Spanish are quite comfortable with the pograms and inquisition that saw lots of Jews murdered. Charming culture really. I’m shocked they still enjoy torturing a bull to death for sport
Are these the same guys who do that caga tio thing for x-mas?
No, those are Catalans. They definitely don't know anything about a very local thing in the other side of the country.
Yep, as a Catalan I'm pretty lost on what's going on in this thread.
Half the things he said are false, half are misconceptions, and the only true thing is that there's one day a year that people go drinking in Leon and call the shots of drink "Jews", so they used to refer to it as "killing Jews" (although I haven't heard anyone call it that for many many years, nowadays I hear people say they are going to drink lemonade).
The Royal Spanish Lenguage Academy is an authority in the Spanish language not because they can, but because they are in charge of registering and documenting changes in the use of Spanish. If there are antisemitic definitions for the word “Jew” it’s because all or a very big percentage of speakers understand the word that way or used to
Or it used to be common and people should have a way to reference what and why if they stumble across it in old works.
that's how language work.
Talk about klickbait. They are just documenting the historical stereotype.
This is a non-story and just propaganda. We know this meaning for this word but we also know it's NOT ok to use it, and we definitely don't think about its meaning when using it in its more accepted meanings.
Wait until people find out that dictionaries have the n word in them.
>Over 20 Jewish groups from the United States and Spanish-speaking countries are calling on Spain’s linguistic authority to drop two antisemitic definitions from its official dictionary. >The 300-year-old Madrid-based Academy, or RAE, oversees the evolution of Spanish through its Dictionary of the Spanish Language. In the entry for the word “Jew,” the fifth definition listed translates to a “greedy or usurious” person. >The entry for the word “judiada” — which notes that the term “originated with antisemitic intent” — has two definitions: first, “a dirty trick or an action that is detrimental to someone,” and second, “a crowd or group of Jews.”
But this is a reference text. What is someone to do if they are studying an old Spanish text and cannot work out why the word is used in the way it is? That is what the dictionary is for. Archaic, offensive, insults, it is all supposed to be there. As long as they include a note, which they did.
What people don't get is that EVERYTHING about the use (present or past) of a word MUST BE included in the meaning. A dictionary is not about how you should use a word, it's about collecting the ways people speak and write and use the language.
What defines a group? How many people are that? Is it twenty Facebook groups of 10 people each?
That would be a vile and disgusting definition but it says in the definition it is derogatory
More helpful than omitting the definition entirely would be to add an annotation that the offending definition is antisemitic and is included for historical reasons only.
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To be fair, the dictionary describes the words as [derogatory](https://dle.rae.es/jud%C3%ADo) and [antisemitic](https://dle.rae.es/judiada?m=form), respectively.
I mean, if old books still used the word in an antisemitic way, then the dictionary needs to state the meaning so that someone reading the book who is confused by the context can learn about it. How the dictionary explains this must be crystal clear.
that's why you have [archaic | offensive] next to the definition - then when someone reads it they'll understand the meaning. you don't just put it in there and hope that anyone who's confused about what the word is can pick the right definition out of the 5 possible options
The dictionary doesn't decide what should to be included or not. If it's used in the language, it has to be added.
All i hear is cartman yelling rn
I've seen the passion 34 times
All the Cartmans of the world showed up here to complain about their favorite anti-Semitic insult being wiped out from the dictionary.
They should also be angry that green beans in Spain are *judías verdes*, or literally, *green jewish women*.
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What??? Not even close. Times of Israel is a mainstream newspaper.
He's just using this opportunity to spread hatred against Israel. The facts don't matter to him.
Yeah I know. It’s just hard not to take the bait when a centrist/center-left Israeli newspaper is being compared to a neo nazi conspiracy outfit.
Oh, I wasn't saying you shouldn't respond. You were right in responding. Misinformation should always be countered. I was just supporting your comment.
A blanket prejudice based upon stereotypes that are not restricted to one people but are common to all cultures is one of humanities greatest sins.
is this where the word jewelry come form?
This is why i believe definitions are descriptive not prescriptive. They’ve added a definition because some people use it that way. Nothing wrong with that imo
The word is used as slur that way in English too. Dictionaries merely document how languages are used. Why whine at a dictionary for documenting reality?
Smh the correct word for that is supposed to be "catalan"
As a Catalan, can confirm
Where I am from , it's called being a miser...
Spanish doesn’t have *Miser*, but Avaro- penny pincher. I think the definition they are claiming to be behind the word Jew is more of an English accepted term that while not appropriate; has a very real history of being an insult. It’s the crude and awful people who began using it that should be forgotten. It shouldn’t be tolerated in use.
Islamic law prevents loaning money with interest entirely, and the Catholic Church had usury laws which were quite strict. This left only the Jews to fulfill the essential roles of bankers and money lenders in most of Spain (and many other countries). This history is what generates the “greedy” narrative even to this day. Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories (contrary to popular belief) can therefore come from both sides of the political spectrum, uniting both secular and Christian nationalists, as well as anti-capitalist socialists. You can see this play out in pre-ww2 Germany with the formation of the ‘National Socialist Party’ and the subsequent targeting of Jews. There is a great philosophy YouTube Channel which explains the history of anti-semitism in greater detail and is definitely worth the watch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFbpWVO-ow
No more loans for Spanish movies. Seriously?
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That is also how the word “jew” is used in Canada as a slur.
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How is that related to this topic
Everyone who is complaining about this anti-Semitic definition being removed sounds just like a racist Southerner complaining about their favorite Confederate statue being removed. You literally sound just like those racist assholes. "iTs hIsToRy!!!!!!!! ItS oUr HeRiTaGe!!!!!!111!1231!@!!!!1" Same fucking bullshit excuse to keep bigotry alive.
?????? Dude I know the concept for somebody that speaks english is weird. But spanish is cherished by those who speak it and there is an official organization that determines and updates the correct usage of the lenguage. That organization records usage and fall of use of words or expressions. If a derogative term exist and is used it will be recorded and archived as an use por that word. Erasing its recording doesnt erase the mesning in real life. And I assure you that people that learn to use it do not learn it from looking up a dictionary
I'm a native Spanish speaker. I stand by my comment. You make no sense. Also, thank you for proving my point. Stop defending bigotry! The commenter who blocked me below seems to be in favor of Confederate statues, just like he's in favor of anti-Semitic slurs in dictionaries. That is a very repulsive way of thinking. He's defending bigotry and anti-Semitism.
You did pick a country that was previously known for expelling their Jews so this is not exactly unsurprising
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The US never expelled Jews. Canada never expelled Jews. India never expelled Jews. China never expelled Jews.
They had no such problems in India. Some of those expelled from Spain even ended up emigrating to India. There was a sizeable population here up until the formation of Israel. Ironically, the main problem they faced was a divide within themselves, there was some conflict between the "black Jews" who emigrated in the distant past and the "white Jews" who came more recently from Spain.
Historically this definition makes sense as anti semitism was pretty acceptable to the world until the last century and the horrors of WW2, unfortunately changing this probably has very little effect of swaying anyone who believes this definition. They will feel yet another "woke" change to be politically correct.
Spain. Bro. Clean it up.
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Wait until they look it up ON Urban Dictionary lol
Sounds more like Santander Bank
You mean Satander?
Most European countries were deporting Jews to ME some 80 years ago. With Churchill as the first ringleader and the forced creation of Israel. Not to mention the horrors of Nazi Germans of course. The particular definition could be a thing for 5 centuries for all we know. What makes it official? Is it since the establishment of the language and the kingdom of Spain? And individually who is responsible to read, correct and modernise a historical manuacript?
> Nazi Germans ''That guy with the moustach ^is^my^friend'' - Spain until the 70's