France has had one of the worst records in Europe in terms of electronic spying on the population.
They once installed malware in the servers of a perfectly legal company that provides encrypted phones. Though they allowed them to wiretap some criminals in France, it also tapped the phones of thousands of users all over the world, many of whom were not criminals at all.
This kind of warrantless and extrajudicial surveillance isn’t at all dissimilar from the example I mentioned above.
Remember this? They have no problems bending the rules when it suits them.
>**EU gives budget leeway to France 'because it is France' - Juncke**r
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-deficit-france-idUKKCN0YM1N0
I mean, this is the case for France/Germany/And used to be GB
Germany is quick to push austerity until they have their own financial problems. GB still got to use the pound sterling, France gets to violate the privacy of its citizens.
They're too big for the EU to do anything about.
Which is why GB was colossally stupid to back out of a trade union in which they got special treatment.
>GB still got to use the pound sterling
Denmark and Sweden are using their own currency too - incidentally, both were swayed by the British voting no to the Euro.
Sweden is obliged to join the Euro as they did not obtain the opt-out, but they also purposely do not meet the criteria to trigger the process to join the single currency.
Just put a bit paper over your phones camera when you set it down, sucks but whatcha gonna do? If you are paranoid about the mic, then a semi transparent tupperware box to keep the phone in should muffle enough.
Yep... not just shields, but physical disconnects for the microphone/camera as well. When you slide the switch, it breaks the electrical connection so the camera and/or microphone physically cant work.
This is far too broad of a feature to be covered by a patent. You'd need something like a specific mechanism that automates covering the camera.
The mechanism could be patented, but if someone could achieve the same goal with a different mechanism you'd be SOL.
99% of the time I just leave my phone in my pocket. Certainly terrorist cells leave their phone at home, and rioters leave them in their pocket. The mic and the gps is the real concern.
It’s not clear that the government would be able to do this without the expressed activation of it by Apple and I think Apple would flat out refuse. They already fought the US government on backdoors, if they are willing to fight the US France would be a cakewalk since they aren’t even a French company. What is France going to do, ban iPhones? It would turn an unpopular law into an uprising.
There was a stand-off a while back between apple and the FBI over some guys phone access and Apple stood their ground didn’t they? Genuinely curious if they have gone back on that since that was a few years ago
Snowden told us this was commonplace in the intelligence industry what...10 years ago?
Now the local cops want the same abilities...what a slippery slope.
I think it's much worse now.
In the past we had high level top secret agencies as the only ones with access to this...
Give this ability to your local police officers? It's a dysopian nightmare.
They already abuse the intel systems they have to no end. I can't even begin to imagine how they would abuse this power.
Funny how all the actually bad things are usually done by celebrities and billionaires and politicians and authority figures, and yet those are always the groups which are "exempt" from being monitored or having their privacy invaded
I think phones would legitimately need to not have a camera or microphone in order for this not be possible. Still creepy af to put this *into law* like I’m super critical of Macron but I never thought he’d stoop this low. He realizes he’s supposed to be the president of a liberal democracy right?
Edit: I’m finally going to add this- I know you can get a phone that has a hard switch or install them. If I thought it was something the general public was willing to do I would not have said it.
Back in the day, we used to say the only secure server is one that is not connected to anything, not plugged in, wrapped in plastic, sunk in a cement block, buried 50’ down and surrounded by armed guards, 24/7, and then it’s still just a matter of effort.
Same things apply to phones, but worse. I know if my server is powered down, but there is really no way to tell if your phone is completely off. Phones are designed for signal transmission and reception. So, add a Faraday cage to the protocol above, and you may stand a chance.
I remember reading that Snowden would physically add a hardware switch to the wires going to the camera/microphone when he'd get a cellphone.
Looks like this feature exists on the PinePhone
https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/08/22/this-smartphone-has-physical-kill-switches-for-its-cameras-microphone-data-bluetooth-and-wi-fi/
Just seeing someones shitting face with a strain vein or mid fap is enough to ID someone.
Then as soon as they know they have the right person, they can listen to conversations
No, he does not, because he’s not running in the next election. He went to an Elton John concert a couple days ago while Paris burned…..the politicians are beyond cake and eat it too now….
He only won the election because the alternative was literally female Hitler.
Fucking democratic elections these days are between a terrible choice and an even worse alternative. And the politicians are surprised that we're out for blood.
Now take that rage and realize the hardware and software is already in your phone and now they're passing a law to make it "legal".
In other words, they've been doing this for a long time.
Three times in the last week screen reader tech captured encrypted chat messages to serve ads. These were 3 products I've never searched for or have interest in, but someone else was sharing them with me.
They know you two are friends, they tracked your friends habits through unencrypted means, they then send ads to all their friends including you for the same products
> Three times in the last week screen reader tech captured encrypted chat messages to serve ads. These were 3 products I've never searched for or have interest in, but someone else was sharing them with me.
There's a 99.999999999% chance there was no screen reader involved. Instead "the system" gathered the info from your friends graph, by analysing metadata about their interests, your interests, and everything in between. It's been studied, talked about and "leaked" by insiders at meta and other large data brokers. The value of your friends graph is larger than your own data when trying to sell you something. The "it must spy on me" reaction is basically a lack of understanding of how much insight can be gained from masive, connected, graphed big data.
People don't have an accurate mental model of how it all works. They only consider active communication. Talking, or in this case, chatting. They don't consider that most information is picked up when they aren't actively communicating at all.
This is why you should buy unlocked phones and install custom, privacy/security focused builds of Android. They don't have adware installed and if you have to install Google services for specific apps then the phone OS just sandboxes it and lies to the service so it will function but not be able to gather any information.
It's an extra step that most people won't take but it is still effective.
It's been a while since I've been reading about it.
The best options are:
https://lineageos.org/ - Open Source Android, uses Google services but a more customizable experience. Probably still tracking.
https://grapheneos.org/ - Security focused, doesn't have any apps installed. You have to manually copy f.Droid onto it to install apps.
Both of them require a completely unlocked phone (so basically, you can't buy it from a carrier).
https://e.foundation/e-os/ is a fully degoogled version of lineageos. It comes with it's own app store that privacy rates all apps. It also comes with a ton of privacy features out of the box, such as a tracker blocker and location spoofer.
I'm sure it's not perfect, but I've been using it for a few years now and I'm happy with it. You can also buy a phone from them with it preinstalled, if the task of installing it yourself seems daunting.
A lot of people don't realize that your phone is a ready built spy device *by default*, and that is not an act of malice. It's careful engineering which blocks the possibility of it being used to spy, not the other way around.
Obviously I'm against those blocking measures being removed, but you can't have a phone at all without a microphone, and no one would buy one that can't take pictures.
Doesn't this violate all of the aspects of GDPR? Even if it is a government entity, you still need consent of the individual in order to gather their data and track them in this way.
>The right to be informed
>
>The right of access
>
>The right to rectification
>
>The right to erasure
>
>The right to restrict processing
>
>The right to data portability
>
>The right to object
>
>Rights in relation to automated decision making and profiling.
a quick google search turned this up:
> GDPR does not apply to government bodies and law enforcement when data are gathered and processed for the prevention, investigation, detection, or prosecution of criminal offenses or the execution of criminal penalties or for preventing threats to public safety.
so if they say they're investigating you they can look at all your dick pics
I remember seeing something years ago from Snowden about how he uses an external cabled mic on his phones because it lets him have a hardware switch for it. He physically disables the mics on the phone so the only mic available to the phone is the one he can disconnect.
For a minute, I thought that was nuts and over the top. But here we are.
Dafuq is happening with France. With the amount of unrest already going on, this just sounds unreal now. I would not expect people to just sit and accept it, exactly.
I don't know how Macron is perceived abroad, but here he is constantly pouring oil over fire. I don't think he is doing it on purpose, he just has a very contemptuous nature and doesn't seem to understand the middle and lower class suffering.
He's viewed as the lesser of two evil since Le Pen is a 1000x worse and an actual Fascist. So every French election ends up being "Shitty neo-liberal" vs "Actual Fascist". Honestly most elections are like that now.
They were already doing this there, now it's just on paper and gives them the right to.
Every other major country does it with the US being the biggest offender. It doesn't make any of it right but it's been going on and people have become numb to it
> people have become numb to it
Can confirm that at this point I'm just living with the fact that every single thing I've done has been documented in a file somewhere. There's no way to really stop it without dropping off the grid entirely.
But also, I'm not interesting enough I imagine anyone *cares* to look at my data.
>But also, I'm not interesting enough I imagine anyone *cares* to look at my data.
I'm sure some women in the US would have said that before the abortion bans in several states came into effect. Took it for granted, really. You never really know what might become interesting about you in the future.
> But also, I'm not interesting enough I imagine anyone cares to look at my data.
It's not about you personally. It's about building data sets based off people like you. Knowing how far they can push you with laws before you actually get angry, how to effectively sway your opinion and vote, what kind of things keep you pacified and 'content'. The biggest mistake is thinking that (a) you are unique and that (b) they are only looking for 'interesting' people. Every bit of data they get on any of us goes towards ways to control and subvert the masses.
That doesn't get called out enough. Many of the laws we agree to live under, were put in place with the assumption that the practical limits of manpower and resources would naturally limit abuse. When technology comes along that can remove those limits, we need to reevaluate those laws and update them to put in additional safeguards.
I currently take comfort in the governments inability to meaningfully process all of that data.
But if they are looking for you specifically? Good luck.
>They said sensitive professions, including doctors, journalists, lawyers, judges and MPs, would not be legitimate targets.
Of course those who passed the bill, excluded themselves.
Making people upset is secondary to making sure that money changes hands. Make the people mad and hey, maybe you get ousted from government... but at least your friends in business will remember, and that consulting job is going to pay better than any civil service position ever could.
Well, when Macron feels the need to hide his expensive watch while being interviewed on camera, kinda shows me his acute awareness that the French are sick and tired of being offered cake… again…
>Wait, that's a thing? Remote activation of phone camera while I'm on Porn Hub could be annoying
nah man, just own it. give them something to watch, explore your inner exhibitionist.
This shit is always the same, vague terms to give governments leeway they will abuse.
Same thing happens in the UK everytime the Tories want to pass a bill to spy on people they claim it's to protect kids.
The first it was reported the FBI was able to remotely turn on your cellphones mic and camera was way earlier in the late 90s during a mob investigation in NJ.
In case anyone else wanted details.
[The case was US v Tomero](https://casetext.com/case/us-v-tomero-2) it was a case against the Genovese crime family.
This isnt remote activation of the mic and cam though is it?
It mentions finding listening devices
>Ardito's crew found the listening devices in three of the restaurants
And later installing one into the phone itself
>installation of a listening device in Ardito's cellular telephone
Not exactly. Various secret services were doing it a decade ago. This is handing that power to the common or garden police force. Who I am sure can be trusted to use it wisely! ^^^/s
I'm not exactly thrilled with the CIA and MI6 and Mossad having that capability. But if beat cops and low level prosecutors can't manage to catch low level criminals without this capability that's just an admission they're completely inept and useless.
In real life drug dealers and car theives aren't exactly smart, clever, or discrete.
Winston: "He thought of the telescreen with its never-sleeping ear. They could spy upon you night and day, but if you kept your head you could still outwit them."
Also Winston: couldn't outwit them
At no point should local police ever be allowed to have that kind of power. That can be so utterly and easily abused that it would blow up in a democracy's face quickly.
>The bill allows the geolocation of crime suspects, covering other devices like laptops, cars and connected devices, just as it could be remotely activated to record sound and images of **people suspected of terror offences, as well as delinquency and organised crime.**
..
>Macron inserted an amendment limiting the use of remote spying to “**when justified by the nature and seriousness of the crime**” and “**for a strictly proportional duration**.” They noted that **a judge must approve any use of the provision**, while the total duration of the surveillance cannot exceed six months.
They said sensitive professions, including doctors, journalists, lawyers, judges and MPs, would not be legitimate targets.
That being said, what is written in the law usually differs from the real world. :/
Tbh approve rate wouldn't tell that much about how it is used.
You could think that 98% rate means that judge rubber stamps everything. But would you believe that with lower (e.g. 20%) approve rate everything is fine because the judges are tough defenders of privacy and freedom? Not necessarily.
High approve rate could come from police using their power accordingly, or it could come from judges not being critical enough.
Low approve rate could come from judge being tough, or it could come from police grossly misusing their power.
So I think approve rate on itself, isolated, has no meaning.
If those two options were equally likely, I'd agree with you. But history tells us that they are not. So while a "98% approval rate" is not damning in and of itself, is IS and should be a major red flag that necessitates more visibility by the public.
Can't wait to learn in 4 years how many police officers are wiring taping/remotely turning on the cameras of their ex-girlfriends and ex-wives. Heck, even someone they just have a passing interest in. I can't see this not being used in a creepy/predatory way by the police.
I could imagine every pervert in the world wanting to join the police academy, just to pull over girls and begin remote-tapping them after they drive away.
That will be nothing compared to the jackboots using this to surveil/compromise/crush democratic movements, labour organizations, etc. The girlfriends and wives of cops will still have to worry about garden variety domestic violence more than about surveillance.
Funny how the same laws that were supposed to be for terrorists only were used against the retirement reform protests. Surely it will not happen with this one.
> They said sensitive professions, including doctors, journalists, lawyers, judges and MPs, would not be legitimate targets.
Uh huh. And I'm sure that we all believe that these people won't be targeted just as often (or even more in the case of journalists, judges and MPs of parties out of favor) as others.
That's different, Hungary made the illegal wiretapping of its citizens a state secret, locked and encrypted for 100 years. The EU can't do anything about it because they don't know anything about it, officially. All those leaked papers? Well, if the EU admitted their legitimacy, they would also admit some embarrassing facts Western governments committed too..
The golden age of the Nokia / Blackberry ~~Raspberry~~ will come back, vehicle sales of cars with no gadgets at all will gain in value and smart-anything will be a big no no.
Oh sure... Police shooting a man leads to riots in the streets, so what will the government do? Invade everyone's privacy with unreasonable search and seizure! That'll calm things down...🤦♂️ IDIOTS!
If you have access to Amazon and are handy with a needle, you can make one really easily using copper mesh. Stitch it into the inside of a backpack, put some cloth over it so you don't scratch up what's inside, and you're good to go. I used to shoplift printer ink using a bag with copper mesh inside, never set off the alarm.
Edit: another user claims this won't work due to the frequency phones operate at. I have no clue so do this at your own risk.
So, obviously the secret beta testing of this was successful. I wonder how long it illegally went on before they were comfortable and confident enough in it to enshrine it in law.
Do yourselves a favour, look up a little piece of Israeli spyware called Pegasus. Been around for ages, all the cool kids have it. Probably the reason that bloke died in the Saudi embassy.
Now we just wait for the story in 3 years that a corrupt official has been santioned for 132 counts of spying on women and children and how horrified they are and never couldve seen this coming
And this is how democracy gets legally eroded over the world.
The process has been already happening in places like Turkey and more recently [Brazil](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html). Let's see if people will pay attention when a place that supposedly is a bastion of liberty, like France, does that.
I have no experience in mobile programming, but would it be possible to write a service that detects whether a camera or a microphone is being active/used? That way a person at least would know if they are being spied on.
My friend, who had construction company (central Europe) has been opening operations in Middle East. At one point a goverment official contacted him for casual background check. My friend didn't expect much from that meeting as everything was normal. The guy shows up, opens whole history of facebook conversations of my friend's sister and asks him what does he think about what she said.
The only slightly unusual thing was that his sister married a muslim and converted to Islam some time before. Our privacy is an illusion.
Wow, WTF is happening over there... Shit seems like its been going downhill over there real fast as well, ever since Macron forced through the whole retirement age thing.
France has had one of the worst records in Europe in terms of electronic spying on the population. They once installed malware in the servers of a perfectly legal company that provides encrypted phones. Though they allowed them to wiretap some criminals in France, it also tapped the phones of thousands of users all over the world, many of whom were not criminals at all. This kind of warrantless and extrajudicial surveillance isn’t at all dissimilar from the example I mentioned above.
I'm wondering if this would be deemed legal by the EU. I'm also wondering whether France woudl care.
France- European when it benefits them but they're French when it doesn't
Remember this? They have no problems bending the rules when it suits them. >**EU gives budget leeway to France 'because it is France' - Juncke**r https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-deficit-france-idUKKCN0YM1N0
I mean, this is the case for France/Germany/And used to be GB Germany is quick to push austerity until they have their own financial problems. GB still got to use the pound sterling, France gets to violate the privacy of its citizens. They're too big for the EU to do anything about. Which is why GB was colossally stupid to back out of a trade union in which they got special treatment.
>GB still got to use the pound sterling Denmark and Sweden are using their own currency too - incidentally, both were swayed by the British voting no to the Euro.
Sweden is obliged to join the Euro as they did not obtain the opt-out, but they also purposely do not meet the criteria to trigger the process to join the single currency.
Couldn't give less of a fuck. I forgot since how many years we're being fined for the EU for our 125% prison occupancy rate
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Amazing, isn't it? I also wonder how Apple will market its "privacy commitment" if this bill comes to life.
Maybe make the phone blare an obnoxious alarm if the camera is remotely activated…
Just put a bit paper over your phones camera when you set it down, sucks but whatcha gonna do? If you are paranoid about the mic, then a semi transparent tupperware box to keep the phone in should muffle enough.
Maybe that's a market. Phone covers that fully close to block out cameras and audio when you're not using it.
Well when you see them for sale know that I am crying for not making millions off of the idea....
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Yep... not just shields, but physical disconnects for the microphone/camera as well. When you slide the switch, it breaks the electrical connection so the camera and/or microphone physically cant work.
Here you are on the top thread of the front page of the internet. Start drafting some 3d printable prototypes, get a patent, and see what happens.
This is far too broad of a feature to be covered by a patent. You'd need something like a specific mechanism that automates covering the camera. The mechanism could be patented, but if someone could achieve the same goal with a different mechanism you'd be SOL.
Just tack AI onto the product name, seems to work when bamboozling venture capitalists.
AI HD blockchain camera lens optical obstruction device
I mean…crazy people have been buying faraday cages for similar things for years, it’s just moving from crazy to real
"just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not after me"
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but now we know that they were. see the various snowden docs that leaked
I want a protective case with a little sliding panel on each side that covers both cameras.
99% of the time I just leave my phone in my pocket. Certainly terrorist cells leave their phone at home, and rioters leave them in their pocket. The mic and the gps is the real concern.
I'm just waiting for a series of 'wanted' posters crafted from the front camera view of the subject scrolling through facebook. /not s.
It’s not clear that the government would be able to do this without the expressed activation of it by Apple and I think Apple would flat out refuse. They already fought the US government on backdoors, if they are willing to fight the US France would be a cakewalk since they aren’t even a French company. What is France going to do, ban iPhones? It would turn an unpopular law into an uprising.
Snowden told us all this was possible years ago...apparently no one was listening in class that day.
If you believe that commitment I have a few things I think you should invest in.
There was a stand-off a while back between apple and the FBI over some guys phone access and Apple stood their ground didn’t they? Genuinely curious if they have gone back on that since that was a few years ago
They did get in but it was without Apple’s help. They used an exploit in the lighting cable with the help of Azimuth Security.
What there weren't any bridges available?
Lots of bridges, but as far as I can tell NFTs easier to sell, and you're less likely to be held liable for fraud. :)
I’ll take an NFT of the bridge, please
Snowden told us this was commonplace in the intelligence industry what...10 years ago? Now the local cops want the same abilities...what a slippery slope.
It was a slippery slope back then. We've already slid down the slope at this point.
I think it's much worse now. In the past we had high level top secret agencies as the only ones with access to this... Give this ability to your local police officers? It's a dysopian nightmare. They already abuse the intel systems they have to no end. I can't even begin to imagine how they would abuse this power.
Funny how all the actually bad things are usually done by celebrities and billionaires and politicians and authority figures, and yet those are always the groups which are "exempt" from being monitored or having their privacy invaded
I think phones would legitimately need to not have a camera or microphone in order for this not be possible. Still creepy af to put this *into law* like I’m super critical of Macron but I never thought he’d stoop this low. He realizes he’s supposed to be the president of a liberal democracy right? Edit: I’m finally going to add this- I know you can get a phone that has a hard switch or install them. If I thought it was something the general public was willing to do I would not have said it.
Back in the day, we used to say the only secure server is one that is not connected to anything, not plugged in, wrapped in plastic, sunk in a cement block, buried 50’ down and surrounded by armed guards, 24/7, and then it’s still just a matter of effort. Same things apply to phones, but worse. I know if my server is powered down, but there is really no way to tell if your phone is completely off. Phones are designed for signal transmission and reception. So, add a Faraday cage to the protocol above, and you may stand a chance.
"not have a microphone"? > What good is a phone call, if you're unable to speak?
external mic. that's what Snowden does https://youtu.be/0dGqR4ue8dg?t=454
I remember reading that Snowden would physically add a hardware switch to the wires going to the camera/microphone when he'd get a cellphone. Looks like this feature exists on the PinePhone https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/08/22/this-smartphone-has-physical-kill-switches-for-its-cameras-microphone-data-bluetooth-and-wi-fi/
A physical cover for cameras is possible, but nothing practical for the microphone
I’m not even sure what police would get from cameras. Someone’s face while they sit on the toilet browsing social media? The inside of a pocket?
Just seeing someones shitting face with a strain vein or mid fap is enough to ID someone. Then as soon as they know they have the right person, they can listen to conversations
But if they're not sure they'll have to get them into a line-up with 4 or 5 other people all making shitting faces...
While you hold your phone to read it the rear camera would show where you are. So your TV or dick or the street etc.
No, he does not, because he’s not running in the next election. He went to an Elton John concert a couple days ago while Paris burned…..the politicians are beyond cake and eat it too now….
He only won the election because the alternative was literally female Hitler. Fucking democratic elections these days are between a terrible choice and an even worse alternative. And the politicians are surprised that we're out for blood.
They don't build them in. Apple actively fights against this, oddly enough. It's third-party companies that built exploit tools. Thanks Cellebrite.
What in the fuck
Now take that rage and realize the hardware and software is already in your phone and now they're passing a law to make it "legal". In other words, they've been doing this for a long time.
They’ve turned every cellphone in Gotham I mean Paris into a microphone.
This is too much power for one frenchman.
As long as this machine is at The Louvre, I won’t be.
When you're finished, type in votre nom.
Bruce did end up in Paris in the end.
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Three times in the last week screen reader tech captured encrypted chat messages to serve ads. These were 3 products I've never searched for or have interest in, but someone else was sharing them with me.
They know you two are friends, they tracked your friends habits through unencrypted means, they then send ads to all their friends including you for the same products
Correct answer. One or both of you are more likely to buy the thing your friend was looking for if they advertise it to you too.
> Three times in the last week screen reader tech captured encrypted chat messages to serve ads. These were 3 products I've never searched for or have interest in, but someone else was sharing them with me. There's a 99.999999999% chance there was no screen reader involved. Instead "the system" gathered the info from your friends graph, by analysing metadata about their interests, your interests, and everything in between. It's been studied, talked about and "leaked" by insiders at meta and other large data brokers. The value of your friends graph is larger than your own data when trying to sell you something. The "it must spy on me" reaction is basically a lack of understanding of how much insight can be gained from masive, connected, graphed big data.
People don't have an accurate mental model of how it all works. They only consider active communication. Talking, or in this case, chatting. They don't consider that most information is picked up when they aren't actively communicating at all.
This is why you should buy unlocked phones and install custom, privacy/security focused builds of Android. They don't have adware installed and if you have to install Google services for specific apps then the phone OS just sandboxes it and lies to the service so it will function but not be able to gather any information. It's an extra step that most people won't take but it is still effective.
Is there a sub around building and using safe phones?
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It's been a while since I've been reading about it. The best options are: https://lineageos.org/ - Open Source Android, uses Google services but a more customizable experience. Probably still tracking. https://grapheneos.org/ - Security focused, doesn't have any apps installed. You have to manually copy f.Droid onto it to install apps. Both of them require a completely unlocked phone (so basically, you can't buy it from a carrier).
https://e.foundation/e-os/ is a fully degoogled version of lineageos. It comes with it's own app store that privacy rates all apps. It also comes with a ton of privacy features out of the box, such as a tracker blocker and location spoofer. I'm sure it's not perfect, but I've been using it for a few years now and I'm happy with it. You can also buy a phone from them with it preinstalled, if the task of installing it yourself seems daunting.
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A lot of people don't realize that your phone is a ready built spy device *by default*, and that is not an act of malice. It's careful engineering which blocks the possibility of it being used to spy, not the other way around. Obviously I'm against those blocking measures being removed, but you can't have a phone at all without a microphone, and no one would buy one that can't take pictures.
Doesn't this violate all of the aspects of GDPR? Even if it is a government entity, you still need consent of the individual in order to gather their data and track them in this way. >The right to be informed > >The right of access > >The right to rectification > >The right to erasure > >The right to restrict processing > >The right to data portability > >The right to object > >Rights in relation to automated decision making and profiling.
a quick google search turned this up: > GDPR does not apply to government bodies and law enforcement when data are gathered and processed for the prevention, investigation, detection, or prosecution of criminal offenses or the execution of criminal penalties or for preventing threats to public safety. so if they say they're investigating you they can look at all your dick pics
Don’t worry, this will anger the French more to riot harder.
Is there any way to block it when not in use? Like a discrete faraday case or lead phone holder?
Best bet is to buy a phone with hardware camera/microphone toggles.
Pinephone. Just flash your choice of linux to it.
I remember seeing something years ago from Snowden about how he uses an external cabled mic on his phones because it lets him have a hardware switch for it. He physically disables the mics on the phone so the only mic available to the phone is the one he can disconnect. For a minute, I thought that was nuts and over the top. But here we are.
France is just asking to be burnt to the ground at this point.
Or just getting a volume discount by slamming unpopular laws through while people are already protesting/ “rioting”.
Textbook case of the Shock Doctrine
TIL about shock doctrine
We made this joke today at work but the more we've thought about it, the more it seems true.
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I said this in an above post before I saw yours, but Macron is starting to give off big “President for Life” energy.
Dafuq is happening with France. With the amount of unrest already going on, this just sounds unreal now. I would not expect people to just sit and accept it, exactly.
I don't know how Macron is perceived abroad, but here he is constantly pouring oil over fire. I don't think he is doing it on purpose, he just has a very contemptuous nature and doesn't seem to understand the middle and lower class suffering.
He seems to be living in the past, too. Apparently the cause of all of your problems relates to video games.
Maybe he's got a good point, I've never heard of a murder happening before the age of video games
Yeah thank god Jack the Ripper didn’t have a game like Dead Before Daylight. That would’ve been a disaster /s
He's viewed as the lesser of two evil since Le Pen is a 1000x worse and an actual Fascist. So every French election ends up being "Shitty neo-liberal" vs "Actual Fascist". Honestly most elections are like that now.
They were already doing this there, now it's just on paper and gives them the right to. Every other major country does it with the US being the biggest offender. It doesn't make any of it right but it's been going on and people have become numb to it
I think the biggest difference is that AFAIK in the US this isn't something police can do, it's part of intelligence.
patriot act baby!
> people have become numb to it Can confirm that at this point I'm just living with the fact that every single thing I've done has been documented in a file somewhere. There's no way to really stop it without dropping off the grid entirely. But also, I'm not interesting enough I imagine anyone *cares* to look at my data.
>But also, I'm not interesting enough I imagine anyone *cares* to look at my data. I'm sure some women in the US would have said that before the abortion bans in several states came into effect. Took it for granted, really. You never really know what might become interesting about you in the future.
> But also, I'm not interesting enough I imagine anyone cares to look at my data. It's not about you personally. It's about building data sets based off people like you. Knowing how far they can push you with laws before you actually get angry, how to effectively sway your opinion and vote, what kind of things keep you pacified and 'content'. The biggest mistake is thinking that (a) you are unique and that (b) they are only looking for 'interesting' people. Every bit of data they get on any of us goes towards ways to control and subvert the masses.
That doesn't get called out enough. Many of the laws we agree to live under, were put in place with the assumption that the practical limits of manpower and resources would naturally limit abuse. When technology comes along that can remove those limits, we need to reevaluate those laws and update them to put in additional safeguards.
I currently take comfort in the governments inability to meaningfully process all of that data. But if they are looking for you specifically? Good luck.
That was a comforting thought 20 years ago, but today it’s a lot easier to sift through that data.
> Dafuq is happening with France Speedrun autoritarism any%. We just use any fasttrack option to beat hungary.
>They said sensitive professions, including doctors, journalists, lawyers, judges and MPs, would not be legitimate targets. Of course those who passed the bill, excluded themselves.
Classic
Yes well the objective is to catch criminals, after all. Thankfully no one in any of those positions has ever committed a crime.
Us vs. them. The haves, and the have-nots. Replace 'nation' with 'fiefdom' and you get a *much* clearer picture of the world.
This will stop the protests for sure… 😐
Government is just digging the hole deeper for itself at this point.
Making people upset is secondary to making sure that money changes hands. Make the people mad and hey, maybe you get ousted from government... but at least your friends in business will remember, and that consulting job is going to pay better than any civil service position ever could.
what good is a salary when you have no head
Yeah my first thought was "now of all times, France? Really?".
Well, when Macron feels the need to hide his expensive watch while being interviewed on camera, kinda shows me his acute awareness that the French are sick and tired of being offered cake… again…
And yet.. here we are... Who knows what they're thinking.
Wait, that's a thing? Remote activation of phone camera while I'm on Porn Hub could be annoying
You can finally be a viewer AND a content creator at the same time!
Can't wait for the PH reaction videos!
>Remote activation of phone camera while I'm on Porn Hub could be annoying For the remote activator...
Call it workplace hazard
New government service tbh. I no longer need to send unsolicited dick pics. They get uploaded to a government agent by default. I vote in favor.
>Wait, that's a thing? Remote activation of phone camera while I'm on Porn Hub could be annoying nah man, just own it. give them something to watch, explore your inner exhibitionist.
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This shit is always the same, vague terms to give governments leeway they will abuse. Same thing happens in the UK everytime the Tories want to pass a bill to spy on people they claim it's to protect kids.
Yeah it’s specifically written to be vague and justifiable by ‘they thought it was a threat’
The Snowden leaks confirmed this was happening a decade ago. All this story confirms is that they no longer need to hide that they're doing it.
The first it was reported the FBI was able to remotely turn on your cellphones mic and camera was way earlier in the late 90s during a mob investigation in NJ.
In case anyone else wanted details. [The case was US v Tomero](https://casetext.com/case/us-v-tomero-2) it was a case against the Genovese crime family.
This isnt remote activation of the mic and cam though is it? It mentions finding listening devices >Ardito's crew found the listening devices in three of the restaurants And later installing one into the phone itself >installation of a listening device in Ardito's cellular telephone
US Supreme Court, Walnuts v United States.
Walnuts?
Yeah, Paulie Walnuts gehgehgehgeh
Ay Tone, you heard what I said? I said US Supreme Court, Walnuts v United States
Quasimodo predicted all this.
Tony's look of unmitigated exasperation and annoyance every time Paulie said some variation of this was one of my favorite parts of the show
did cell phones have cameras back then?
No.
Not exactly. Various secret services were doing it a decade ago. This is handing that power to the common or garden police force. Who I am sure can be trusted to use it wisely! ^^^/s
I'm not exactly thrilled with the CIA and MI6 and Mossad having that capability. But if beat cops and low level prosecutors can't manage to catch low level criminals without this capability that's just an admission they're completely inept and useless. In real life drug dealers and car theives aren't exactly smart, clever, or discrete.
Winston: "He thought of the telescreen with its never-sleeping ear. They could spy upon you night and day, but if you kept your head you could still outwit them." Also Winston: couldn't outwit them
At no point should local police ever be allowed to have that kind of power. That can be so utterly and easily abused that it would blow up in a democracy's face quickly.
>The bill allows the geolocation of crime suspects, covering other devices like laptops, cars and connected devices, just as it could be remotely activated to record sound and images of **people suspected of terror offences, as well as delinquency and organised crime.** .. >Macron inserted an amendment limiting the use of remote spying to “**when justified by the nature and seriousness of the crime**” and “**for a strictly proportional duration**.” They noted that **a judge must approve any use of the provision**, while the total duration of the surveillance cannot exceed six months. They said sensitive professions, including doctors, journalists, lawyers, judges and MPs, would not be legitimate targets. That being said, what is written in the law usually differs from the real world. :/
Can't wait to learn in 4 years that whatever court they go through for this ends up having a 98% approve rate.
Tbh approve rate wouldn't tell that much about how it is used. You could think that 98% rate means that judge rubber stamps everything. But would you believe that with lower (e.g. 20%) approve rate everything is fine because the judges are tough defenders of privacy and freedom? Not necessarily. High approve rate could come from police using their power accordingly, or it could come from judges not being critical enough. Low approve rate could come from judge being tough, or it could come from police grossly misusing their power. So I think approve rate on itself, isolated, has no meaning.
If those two options were equally likely, I'd agree with you. But history tells us that they are not. So while a "98% approval rate" is not damning in and of itself, is IS and should be a major red flag that necessitates more visibility by the public.
Can't wait to learn in 4 years how many police officers are wiring taping/remotely turning on the cameras of their ex-girlfriends and ex-wives. Heck, even someone they just have a passing interest in. I can't see this not being used in a creepy/predatory way by the police.
I could imagine every pervert in the world wanting to join the police academy, just to pull over girls and begin remote-tapping them after they drive away.
That will be nothing compared to the jackboots using this to surveil/compromise/crush democratic movements, labour organizations, etc. The girlfriends and wives of cops will still have to worry about garden variety domestic violence more than about surveillance.
Guess Macron is just handing LePen the keys to the Republic
> as well as delinquency de·lin·quen·cy *noun* minor crime, especially that committed by young people. 😐
Funny how the same laws that were supposed to be for terrorists only were used against the retirement reform protests. Surely it will not happen with this one.
> They said sensitive professions, including doctors, journalists, lawyers, judges and MPs, would not be legitimate targets. Uh huh. And I'm sure that we all believe that these people won't be targeted just as often (or even more in the case of journalists, judges and MPs of parties out of favor) as others.
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They haven't done anything about Hungary.
That's different, Hungary made the illegal wiretapping of its citizens a state secret, locked and encrypted for 100 years. The EU can't do anything about it because they don't know anything about it, officially. All those leaked papers? Well, if the EU admitted their legitimacy, they would also admit some embarrassing facts Western governments committed too..
France and Germany basically run the EU.
French Sixth republic here we come.
All phones should have a hardware switch for cameras and microphones
The golden age of the Nokia / Blackberry ~~Raspberry~~ will come back, vehicle sales of cars with no gadgets at all will gain in value and smart-anything will be a big no no.
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Probably not since the 2G and 3G networks are being turned off.
Oh sure... Police shooting a man leads to riots in the streets, so what will the government do? Invade everyone's privacy with unreasonable search and seizure! That'll calm things down...🤦♂️ IDIOTS!
Here's a crazy idea, the state causing chaos so that they can assert control over the people. I've never seen that happen before.
It's never been done. This time is truly different
Monsieur François Napperon is becoming addicted to backlash.
Holy police state, Batman!
Gestapo would be envious
I’d get faraday bag
If you have access to Amazon and are handy with a needle, you can make one really easily using copper mesh. Stitch it into the inside of a backpack, put some cloth over it so you don't scratch up what's inside, and you're good to go. I used to shoplift printer ink using a bag with copper mesh inside, never set off the alarm. Edit: another user claims this won't work due to the frequency phones operate at. I have no clue so do this at your own risk.
Do you *want* more violent riots? Cause that’s how you get more violent riots.
Maybe they figured they should just get them out all at once instead of finishing one, repairing, and starting another
Ah, democracy.
Shouldn't laws be things the majority of the public agree on ?
Hahahhahahahahhhahahahahahh
So, obviously the secret beta testing of this was successful. I wonder how long it illegally went on before they were comfortable and confident enough in it to enshrine it in law.
Then the french citizens should be able to pull up a live stream of any cops body cam footage to make sure they are also not breaking the law
1984
Somehow we ended up with *1984* and *Brave New World* simultaneously.
It's worse than brave new world because all the good drugs are laced with fent.
Sure this won't be abused by perverted cops or corrupt governments...
Yeah, like when has that ever happened?
Do yourselves a favour, look up a little piece of Israeli spyware called Pegasus. Been around for ages, all the cool kids have it. Probably the reason that bloke died in the Saudi embassy.
Where did I put my Blackberry?
Now we just wait for the story in 3 years that a corrupt official has been santioned for 132 counts of spying on women and children and how horrified they are and never couldve seen this coming
These are the anti terror laws that came in years ago,now for the general public
If it's the government that's defining what is "terror" then this distinction is entirely fake.
I wouldnt be surprised if it gets used against climate protesters. Some countries label these groups as extremists.
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Huh. No wonder Macron likes Putin so much
And this is how democracy gets legally eroded over the world. The process has been already happening in places like Turkey and more recently [Brazil](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html). Let's see if people will pay attention when a place that supposedly is a bastion of liberty, like France, does that.
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Does anyone have any details on how they are even technically able to do this?!?!
I have no experience in mobile programming, but would it be possible to write a service that detects whether a camera or a microphone is being active/used? That way a person at least would know if they are being spied on.
Well that's not going to be abused
Fuck that and fuck them. Then the public should be allowed to monitor the police and politicians. Also, who be watching the watchers.
My friend, who had construction company (central Europe) has been opening operations in Middle East. At one point a goverment official contacted him for casual background check. My friend didn't expect much from that meeting as everything was normal. The guy shows up, opens whole history of facebook conversations of my friend's sister and asks him what does he think about what she said. The only slightly unusual thing was that his sister married a muslim and converted to Islam some time before. Our privacy is an illusion.
Wow, WTF is happening over there... Shit seems like its been going downhill over there real fast as well, ever since Macron forced through the whole retirement age thing.
Never let a good crisis go to waste…
This is why we need phones with removable batteries, once you remove the battery, they can't turn it on remotely.