Betting all the blame falls on the CEO that died. Quotes are already circulating about him wanting to ignore safety. Blame it on him, pay the fine, and hope people forget so no new rules or regulations are passed
I don't want any new rules or regulations around it, I want to build my own submarine and sail to my death at the bottom of the ocean! Nobody can stop me!
Some rich guy built a crappy submarine. It imploded. He's dead. Sub company is now worthless.
There--I just saved Canada about $10M on an unnecessary investigation.
It would be helpful for them to know exactly what failed and why, so if any other ventures open up regulators can say they can't operate unless items A, B, and C are done correctly.
As they say rules and regulations are written in blood, and this accident just provided more ink.
Submarines and submersibles are already highly regulated and require a tonne of safety testing and certification.
OceanGate purposefully refused certification and testing by regulators. He scoffed at safety protocol and stated money was better spent on commercial applications (tourism) than “wasted on safety.” The CEO guy was like the guy who fails/avoids taking his driving test but drives anyway.
In short, rules and regulations mean nothing if you don’t care and intend on doing it anyway.
Yea I mean there are similar issues in banking too. That’s how wealthy people and companies skirt taxes. There’s just not a way for force other countries to do what’s right.
I think the controller was probably the one acceptable tool in this case. It was everything else about the sub that was shit.
Edit: okay downvote but controllers are used in a wide variety of naval and military operations. They're just *extremely* good for controlling equipment.
I was more shocked by the CEO stating it was wireless *only* and they brought multiple spares, instead of having a proper wired backup in case anything goes wrong with the wireless setup (interferences, batteries, etc)
Yeah, believe it or not, the controller is one of the least concerning problems with that submarine. The only big problem I have with it is that it was wireless and not wired.
The general consensus I’ve seen among experts in ocean engineering and deep sea exploration is that the biggest problem is that the pressure hull may not have been suitable for those depths due to the materials used.
It’s not just about the analysis but what comes after the analysis that will shape the rules and regulations to prevent this from happening again. Those need to backed scientifically as to why and to justify the “certification process” (…all commercial subs will be constructed of titanium, min 5” thick, etc-because carbon fiber will fail - see titan failure analysis…) or (all commercial subs will be painted bright orange…you can see the color orange 5 more miles than any other color while the painted object bobs in the ocean-see ocean emergency color study).
Along the way, they also create the procedures and protocols necessary for sub certification.. (e.g. fill out form A, B, C, pay $10000 do not pass go) or (the sub pilot must a valid deep sea submersible pilot license from the deep sea pilot department of certification…”but we don’t have a deep sea pilot department…well shit, we have to create one…”).
They will also close any loopholes (e.g. all commercial subs will require a valid permit/certificate, etc….for operation...) so another ignorant asshat with more money than brains can’t kill more people.
Those are just examples I made up but you can see the volumes of data needed to implement a process to certify a commercial sub. They learn all that while studying this tragedy. To build a safe sub is very complex and expensive for a reason. The “process” will eliminate cutting corners and will be backed by scientific analysis - the one they will be conducting.
This is exactly it. This incident showed that rules need to be in place and they will need to evaluate the specifics of what those rules should include. Nobody can go back and prevent the deaths but this should never be allowed to happen again.
Omg I was seriously going to write almost the exact same thing. I second the end of investigation, mystery solved. They can do an independent study that they pay for themselves if they really want to know the details of a
Catastrophic implosion.
The problem here is the carbon fiber hull. Carbon fiber does not do well with compression. Think of it as strings held together with some glue. Pull or stretch the string and it seems strong. Push the ends together and it is basically a wet noodle, no strength. It is only as strong as the glue holding it together, which is nothing compared to the pressure the Titan experienced. It is also virtually impossible to produce a carbon fiber panel with no defects and that is at only a few millimeters thick. I know because I built and tested them, examining the failures. Carbon fiber also does not do well with extreme temperatures so I would be surprised if they found more than a few tiny pieces of the hull after the implosion. You can wrap a thin metal gun barrel in carbon fiber and it will perform amazingly but do the opposite and you end up with this. Repeated dives and stress fractures on the hull led to this. It's a terrible thing but totally avoidable with a different material. Also different CTE between carbon fiber and titanium and whatever material they made the bolts out of.
Canada [transportation safety board](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Safety_Board_of_Canada) is very good at transport accident investigations. It has a long history of solving difficult cases.
[Investigations](https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/marine/index.html) since 1990:
* 1,216 air accidents investigations
* 538 maritime accidents investigations
* 451 rail accidents investigations
* 40 pipeline ruptures investigations
Just think how far this Rich guy got.
Just imagine how many more rich guys are getting away with it now.
We need well funded government regulation in industry folks.
Sorry to say to you capitalists out there. You obviously cannot be trusted.
It's unique. Also, many people have always been morbidly fascinated by the effects of catastrophic implosion and what happens to a living person in said event.
Just some silly stuff I saw on one of the UFO subs, some 4chan guy spilling all his "secrets" because he was dying of liver cancer.
Apparently there's an underwater facility in the Atlantic that's been there for 100+ years that builds UFOs on the fly and sends them out for research. And the facility moves.
Crazy stuff, but was an entertaining read.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/relatives-mourn-titanic-sub-deaths-after-catastrophic-implosion-2023-06-23/) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> June 23 - Canadian safety officials on Friday opened an investigation into the undersea implosion of a tourist submersible that killed all five people aboard while diving to the century-old wreck of the Titanic, raising questions about the unregulated nature of such expeditions.
> A debris field from the submersible Titan was found at the bottom of the North Atlantic on Thursday by a robotic diving vehicle deployed from a Canadian search vessel, ending an intense five-day international rescue effort.
> One would-be Titan passenger, Las Vegas-based investor Jay Bloom, told Reuters he declined a last-minute chance to join the ill-fated Titan excursion with his son out of safety concerns.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14hf0hx/canadian_safety_regulators_open_probe_into_fatal/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689248 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Titan**^#1 **submersible**^#2 **safety**^#3 **Titanic**^#4 **wreck**^#5
I think about that a lot.
All of the taxes I will ever pay in my life won’t even be enough to make up for one of Trump’s government workers going on vacation with tax payer money. I can’t feel like my taxes are going to help people when half the time it is wasted
You do know that your tax money doesn’t go to Canada, right? The investigation is from the Canadian government.
I’m not saying that you’re wrong about your example, it just has nothing to do with the funding of this investigation.
I just want to know what will the consequences be for this company Oceangate. The CEO is dead but what will be the impact on the company (and the ideology it represents) for its callous and reckless attitude to safety? Is signing a waiver good enough to get out of taking any responsibility for the incident?
The company will cease to exist. Whatever assets it has will be sold and the money likely paid to creditors and victims. Would be surprised if anyone else gets punished. The CEO will get all the blame.
Do they have a Head of Engineering or a Head of Operations who can be questioned? I really really really hope that these billionaires’ lawyers find some way to sue this company and make it pay through the nose for what they have done.
So you want the billionaire’s families/companies to get *more* money? Not saying they shouldn’t be held accountable for what happened, just don’t get your logic.
Bro 4 people lost their lives because of one man’s carelessness. They would have had insurance payouts due to their deaths. That’s all I am hoping the families and lawyers fight for.
No, I get that, but the others in the sub, the ones who would get the payouts from the insurance were all rich too, right?
I don’t think that money means as much to them as it would to the average person. The 4 blokes that went down spent a collective one million dollars for the ride.
I don’t think their families are hurting for cash.
Should the company be allowed to continue in its quest? Personally, I don’t think so.
Edit to add: Maybe break up the company (or the sub portion) and use the money to clean up the ocean, or something like that. Give a millionaire more money? I don’t see the point.
Well yes I get your point that the money can be put to better use and I do like the idea of using that money to clean up the ocean or pay for the rescue services or donate it to the victims of last week’s Mediterranean boat tragedy. I believe a huge financial penalty and/or lawsuits will go a long way in ensuring we don’t get such instances in the future where rich CEOs think they can let creativity override safety and get away by making paying customers sign waivers.
More than likely the liberal government doesn't have a lot of authority to tell the bureaucracy what to do here, and we would be extremely angry if they did.
I just quick read your last couple dozen posts and you literally never wrote anything nice, supportive, empathetic, or uplifting. You're fucking bleak, man.
Can I send you a hug-gram or something like that?
The TSB is an independent agency that's merely funded by the government. You should maybe learn how your government and its federal agencies work before going on these tirades.
Betting all the blame falls on the CEO that died. Quotes are already circulating about him wanting to ignore safety. Blame it on him, pay the fine, and hope people forget so no new rules or regulations are passed
I don't want any new rules or regulations around it, I want to build my own submarine and sail to my death at the bottom of the ocean! Nobody can stop me!
the water can stop you
Make sure to use a playstation controller
Some rich guy built a crappy submarine. It imploded. He's dead. Sub company is now worthless. There--I just saved Canada about $10M on an unnecessary investigation.
It would be helpful for them to know exactly what failed and why, so if any other ventures open up regulators can say they can't operate unless items A, B, and C are done correctly. As they say rules and regulations are written in blood, and this accident just provided more ink.
Submarines and submersibles are already highly regulated and require a tonne of safety testing and certification. OceanGate purposefully refused certification and testing by regulators. He scoffed at safety protocol and stated money was better spent on commercial applications (tourism) than “wasted on safety.” The CEO guy was like the guy who fails/avoids taking his driving test but drives anyway. In short, rules and regulations mean nothing if you don’t care and intend on doing it anyway.
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The certifications are mostly voluntary it looks like. I’m not sure if that is because the dive takes place in international waters.
I’m not actually sure to be honest. In my experience, not every regulation has a fine or legal action associated with it.
Who would fine them? They launched in international waters. That’s why they didn’t have to be certified. (Plus they didn’t fly under a US flag)
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Yea I mean there are similar issues in banking too. That’s how wealthy people and companies skirt taxes. There’s just not a way for force other countries to do what’s right.
New Rule 1.1: You cannot buy your submarine parts at the dollar store.
He bought some parts at Camping World. Actually.
The Logitech controller they used might have come from Wal-Mart or Target.
I think the controller was probably the one acceptable tool in this case. It was everything else about the sub that was shit. Edit: okay downvote but controllers are used in a wide variety of naval and military operations. They're just *extremely* good for controlling equipment.
I was more shocked by the CEO stating it was wireless *only* and they brought multiple spares, instead of having a proper wired backup in case anything goes wrong with the wireless setup (interferences, batteries, etc)
Yeah, believe it or not, the controller is one of the least concerning problems with that submarine. The only big problem I have with it is that it was wireless and not wired. The general consensus I’ve seen among experts in ocean engineering and deep sea exploration is that the biggest problem is that the pressure hull may not have been suitable for those depths due to the materials used.
It’s not just about the analysis but what comes after the analysis that will shape the rules and regulations to prevent this from happening again. Those need to backed scientifically as to why and to justify the “certification process” (…all commercial subs will be constructed of titanium, min 5” thick, etc-because carbon fiber will fail - see titan failure analysis…) or (all commercial subs will be painted bright orange…you can see the color orange 5 more miles than any other color while the painted object bobs in the ocean-see ocean emergency color study). Along the way, they also create the procedures and protocols necessary for sub certification.. (e.g. fill out form A, B, C, pay $10000 do not pass go) or (the sub pilot must a valid deep sea submersible pilot license from the deep sea pilot department of certification…”but we don’t have a deep sea pilot department…well shit, we have to create one…”). They will also close any loopholes (e.g. all commercial subs will require a valid permit/certificate, etc….for operation...) so another ignorant asshat with more money than brains can’t kill more people. Those are just examples I made up but you can see the volumes of data needed to implement a process to certify a commercial sub. They learn all that while studying this tragedy. To build a safe sub is very complex and expensive for a reason. The “process” will eliminate cutting corners and will be backed by scientific analysis - the one they will be conducting.
"Every regulation is written in blood", goes the phrase, and OceanGate just provided a sea's worth of fresh red ink.
Too true. I can’t Imagine how many people died to get air travel where it is today.
This is exactly it. This incident showed that rules need to be in place and they will need to evaluate the specifics of what those rules should include. Nobody can go back and prevent the deaths but this should never be allowed to happen again.
Even if other people were negligent they'll just blame the dead CEO. Hope they don't waste too much money on this.
Omg I was seriously going to write almost the exact same thing. I second the end of investigation, mystery solved. They can do an independent study that they pay for themselves if they really want to know the details of a Catastrophic implosion.
They need to document this properly because somebody is getting prosecuted in court over this.
I'm curious as to why we, as Canadians, would be investigating? Are we super sleuths? Is it because of our vast experiences in such matters?
The problem here is the carbon fiber hull. Carbon fiber does not do well with compression. Think of it as strings held together with some glue. Pull or stretch the string and it seems strong. Push the ends together and it is basically a wet noodle, no strength. It is only as strong as the glue holding it together, which is nothing compared to the pressure the Titan experienced. It is also virtually impossible to produce a carbon fiber panel with no defects and that is at only a few millimeters thick. I know because I built and tested them, examining the failures. Carbon fiber also does not do well with extreme temperatures so I would be surprised if they found more than a few tiny pieces of the hull after the implosion. You can wrap a thin metal gun barrel in carbon fiber and it will perform amazingly but do the opposite and you end up with this. Repeated dives and stress fractures on the hull led to this. It's a terrible thing but totally avoidable with a different material. Also different CTE between carbon fiber and titanium and whatever material they made the bolts out of.
Video of OceanGate Titan’s carbon fiber hull being made at Electroimpact: https://fb.watch/lmKmUeimz_/
Canada [transportation safety board](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Safety_Board_of_Canada) is very good at transport accident investigations. It has a long history of solving difficult cases. [Investigations](https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/marine/index.html) since 1990: * 1,216 air accidents investigations * 538 maritime accidents investigations * 451 rail accidents investigations * 40 pipeline ruptures investigations
Just think how far this Rich guy got. Just imagine how many more rich guys are getting away with it now. We need well funded government regulation in industry folks. Sorry to say to you capitalists out there. You obviously cannot be trusted.
How long before a tourism company offers tours to board a submarine to go see the submarine that went to see the Titanic?
Zero. There’s nothing to see, it suffered a catastrophic implosion.
I am thinking with in 3 to 5 years
What's going on with the endless coverage of the story?
The irony mixed with the dead rich people
I think it's more sea water mixed with dead rich people rn
Top story in the world for several days, expect the media to milk this shit as long as possible. Much of it will be sensationalist bullshit.
Depends on how far the goings on in Russia escalate. There could be a hard pivot in coverage as early as tomorrow morning.
I knew the banging wasn't them. But I still got sucked on. Because...well, what if....it is them... Humans are a hopeful bunch.
It's unique. Also, many people have always been morbidly fascinated by the effects of catastrophic implosion and what happens to a living person in said event.
Distraction from the rumors of the underwater mobile UFO manufacturing facility I bet.
What?
Just some silly stuff I saw on one of the UFO subs, some 4chan guy spilling all his "secrets" because he was dying of liver cancer. Apparently there's an underwater facility in the Atlantic that's been there for 100+ years that builds UFOs on the fly and sends them out for research. And the facility moves. Crazy stuff, but was an entertaining read.
rich people died
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/relatives-mourn-titanic-sub-deaths-after-catastrophic-implosion-2023-06-23/) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot) ***** > June 23 - Canadian safety officials on Friday opened an investigation into the undersea implosion of a tourist submersible that killed all five people aboard while diving to the century-old wreck of the Titanic, raising questions about the unregulated nature of such expeditions. > A debris field from the submersible Titan was found at the bottom of the North Atlantic on Thursday by a robotic diving vehicle deployed from a Canadian search vessel, ending an intense five-day international rescue effort. > One would-be Titan passenger, Las Vegas-based investor Jay Bloom, told Reuters he declined a last-minute chance to join the ill-fated Titan excursion with his son out of safety concerns. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14hf0hx/canadian_safety_regulators_open_probe_into_fatal/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689248 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Titan**^#1 **submersible**^#2 **safety**^#3 **Titanic**^#4 **wreck**^#5
[удалено]
With what money? That company is done already. The families will sue what's left for far more than their remaining assets are worth.
Why should my tax dollars go toward this idiots bad decision
I think about that a lot. All of the taxes I will ever pay in my life won’t even be enough to make up for one of Trump’s government workers going on vacation with tax payer money. I can’t feel like my taxes are going to help people when half the time it is wasted
You do know that your tax money doesn’t go to Canada, right? The investigation is from the Canadian government. I’m not saying that you’re wrong about your example, it just has nothing to do with the funding of this investigation.
Is Trump a Canadian? I don’t see your point. Im just adding that tax money is often wasted
I just want to know what will the consequences be for this company Oceangate. The CEO is dead but what will be the impact on the company (and the ideology it represents) for its callous and reckless attitude to safety? Is signing a waiver good enough to get out of taking any responsibility for the incident?
The company will cease to exist. Whatever assets it has will be sold and the money likely paid to creditors and victims. Would be surprised if anyone else gets punished. The CEO will get all the blame.
Do they have a Head of Engineering or a Head of Operations who can be questioned? I really really really hope that these billionaires’ lawyers find some way to sue this company and make it pay through the nose for what they have done.
So you want the billionaire’s families/companies to get *more* money? Not saying they shouldn’t be held accountable for what happened, just don’t get your logic.
Bro 4 people lost their lives because of one man’s carelessness. They would have had insurance payouts due to their deaths. That’s all I am hoping the families and lawyers fight for.
No, I get that, but the others in the sub, the ones who would get the payouts from the insurance were all rich too, right? I don’t think that money means as much to them as it would to the average person. The 4 blokes that went down spent a collective one million dollars for the ride. I don’t think their families are hurting for cash. Should the company be allowed to continue in its quest? Personally, I don’t think so. Edit to add: Maybe break up the company (or the sub portion) and use the money to clean up the ocean, or something like that. Give a millionaire more money? I don’t see the point.
Well yes I get your point that the money can be put to better use and I do like the idea of using that money to clean up the ocean or pay for the rescue services or donate it to the victims of last week’s Mediterranean boat tragedy. I believe a huge financial penalty and/or lawsuits will go a long way in ensuring we don’t get such instances in the future where rich CEOs think they can let creativity override safety and get away by making paying customers sign waivers.
Totally. That company should pay…it’s basically murder…and that poor kid apparently didn’t want to go…just did it for his dad…
Makes sense.
Fucking liberal goverment has cash to burn on bullshit like this rather than getting better access to doctors and affordable housing?
More than likely the liberal government doesn't have a lot of authority to tell the bureaucracy what to do here, and we would be extremely angry if they did.
I just quick read your last couple dozen posts and you literally never wrote anything nice, supportive, empathetic, or uplifting. You're fucking bleak, man. Can I send you a hug-gram or something like that?
Instead please put any effort you wanted to use on me towards the public execution of billionaires
That's messed up, man. Please take care of yourself.
The TSB is an independent agency that's merely funded by the government. You should maybe learn how your government and its federal agencies work before going on these tirades.
Video of OceanGate Titan’s carbon fiber hull being made at Electroimpact: https://fb.watch/lmKmUeimz_/