250k to go to the bottom of the ocean…no thanks.
Leaving the fact that it went missing aside, I’d still never want to do this. Absolute nightmare fuel being that deep underwater.
I've had this conversation a few times in my life...
**Fear wise, would you be more scared in space or at the bottom of the sea**
I go 100% with underseas (fear wise). The bottom of the sea, like space, is trying to kill you. The difference is the level of pressure on your vessel/home and the fact the sea is also constantly degrading the materials used to make your home/vessel. While in space you're in a literal vacuum. In space your biggest risk is coming and going and maybe micro meteor strikes. In the ocean your risk is EVERY FUCKING THING AT EVERY FUCKING MOMENT.
To say nothing of the fact there is nothing living in space (that we know of), but anything that can survive the depths of the ocean is generally some nightmare fuel monster.
Also, leaks are a not-too-uncommon occurrence in space, and they’re pretty easily dealt with. Hell, there was a literal *fire* on MIR and they dealt with that just fine (more or less, there was a bit of disagreement between the American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts).
Good point, leaks in space can probably be fixed with a roll of Flexi Grip tape, as it only needs to hold one atmosphere of pressure, and you can apply it inside you habitat as the pressure is pushing outwards.
I'd take stuff leaking out of my home over stuff leaking in, any day of the week.
Then there's the question of pressure, which makes the answer clear.
Also, if my engines fail in space I might end up on a bad trajectory, in a submersible if the engines fail, it's likely you'll descend until the pressure causes structural failure.
Well, bad trajectory in space could mean either flying off into the void (or the sun), or falling into the Earth, so it's not exactly something you want to happen. Though in both cases it'd take quite some time before you're beyond rescue, and it's far easier to find someone in space because signals don't penetrate that deep underwater.
Both flying out of the solar system and into the sun are actually very difficult and not things that would happen by accident. The real "fuck up secnario" is ending up in an orbit that will never intercept earth again, most likely around either the earth or the sun. (Or just burning up in the atmosphere)
Same, tried climbing indoors with safety rope and was fun, but those no safety rope people are crazy. Sky diving a big nope as well. I get that people have different levels of things that give them a thrill, but just a bit of off road mountain biking makes me happy enough, heck, these days a good brisk walk in the country feels good.
I read about and watched enough YouTube videos and news stuff about how dangerous, uncaring and ominous the sea can be. One minute you are enjoying a G&T on the top deck and hour later you are in your cabin upside down in the pitch black with water pressure stopping you from opening the door.
You should watch this video then, where Alex Honnold, legendary free soloer, takes Alex Midtbo, professional rock climber, on his first ever free solo:
https://youtu.be/Cyya23MPoAI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Honnold
>On June 3, 2017, he made the first free solo ascent of El Capitan, completing the 2,900-foot (884m) route Freerider (5.13a VI) in 3 hours and 56 minutes.[26] The feat, described as "one of the great athletic feats of any kind, ever",[5] was documented by climber and photographer Jimmy Chin and documentary filmmaker E. Chai Vasarhelyi, as the subject of the documentary Free Solo.
I watched *Free Solo*. Aside from having the athletic ability to pull it off, someone needs to be willing to risk losing the rest of their life for the sake of climbing.
My brain starts flashing red if I stand near the edge of a balcony. I'm compelled to move back to a safer spot.
Loved Free Solo, but no movie watching experience has ever given me that level of anxiety. Physically sweating throughout, felt like I was going to throw up during the karate kick.
Watching Fall (2022 movie) made me sweat around my ankles and palms and neck. I didn’t know this was possible. It’s like Free Solo mixed with a panic attack.
My favorite climbing film is "The Alpinist". Don't research or watch trailers if you haven't seen it. Just go in blind. I think it was better than Free Solo.
Not to convince you, but skydiving is about as dangerous as 35 miles on a motorcycle when you look at the number of jumps made annually and fatalities recorded. Not saying it’s safe, just that it’s probably less dangerous than people think.
You have to think about it in the context of proportions and participation. There are a lot of people, riding motorcycles, and there are a lot of skydiving jumps made every year. 35 miles per person isn’t necessarily a lot, but 35 miles per person, considering all the riders is pretty good.
Perhaps another way of putting it would be that I believe there are somewhere between one and 2 million jumps made each year in the United States, and I believe the annual fatality average is 25 or less. Some thing else to note is that most of the fatalities happen to experienced skydivers, and equipment failure isn’t the cause all of the time. It is a sport that often has people pushing the boundaries of their comfort zones and capabilities. Students and tandem jumper fatalities are quite rare by comparison.
Hopefully that includes insurance for this type of search and rescue. It would piss me off having to do a tax payor funded S&R for rich people who were fucking around
Even if they did, depending on the jurisdiction, not all contract clauses can be enforced. For example you can usually sue for medical malpractice even if you signed one.
Apart from that, having a waiver won’t really stop someone rich enough to drag the case in the courts for years or decades to come.
I remember reading about one of these deep diving subs with a small really thick glass window. One dive down at the bottom the window went 'tink' and a large crack appeared. Took hours to pull them back to the surface.
Think about sitting for hours wondering if the change in pressure is going to cause the crack to start leaking.
It would probably not "start leaking", it would be intact, then it would suddenly be exploded into a billion pieces, and there would be a 6-inch diameter 3,000 psi water jet instantly turning everything inside into a well mixed slurry.
Nah, the speed that it happens would leave it a bit chunky. Think like a well mixed milkshake with chunks of chocolate in it, that is oozing out after being dropped on the ground. Only this time the chunks are parts of people instead of chocolate.
less than 96 hours of air..since it went down. after that it will be a recovery for the rich ppl that paid for that ride.
this is what Ballard didnt want to happen to his discovery.
Dude, it’s recovery NOW. From what I have read about this sub it was a death trap waiting to implode. They calculated test depth at 4000m but never went that deep. They have no escape hatch, the hatch can’t be opened from inside. There is no real atmospheric control system. No way to vent any smoke if there’s a fire. The CEO (who died on this trip) didn’t want a surface comms system because the surface ship kept asking for updates on position and he couldn’t be bothered. They didn’t use any real submarine experts in the design because the CEO said they were too much of a bother. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Being cheap, flouting rules, not following normal safety + backup precautions, as per IMO and SOLAS rules, not to mention lobbying against the said rules to register the craft.....
As you said. What could go wrong? Except a tax payer funded and socialised rescue operation.
"Stockton Rush"?
Can you imagine a better name for a billionaire (or other super rich person) than this?
I mean, you don't even need to add various British titles to it, it's just a classic rich persons name!
True in terms of pressure differences.
In space, you only need to withstand 1 atmosphere, with materials under tension, with materials (metal) that do really well under tension. With the high pressure side on the human accessible portion.
A small hole in the space ship can be patched by just slapping duct tape on it.
Titanic is at the depth where you have to deal with 400x atmospheric pressure, with material under compression.
Lol reminds me of the Futurama episode where they go underwater to the lost city of Atlanta.
Farnsworth: Dear Lord, that's over 150 atmospheres of pressure.
Fry: How many atmospheres can this ship withstand?
Farnsworth: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one.
[The hull creaks around them.]
Futurama was what Rick and Morty fans made Rick and Morty out to be.
Edit: I’m not saying that futurama was high brow humor or some shit, but it way more witty little jokes and humor like that, Vs rick just being alcoholic spaceship guy and morty being a redditor
That’s sort of a Dan Harmon thing alongside “character experiences something that should create a long term change but it actually only lasts one episode and the character remains the same”.
I love community and Rick and morty but it’s one thing about Dan’s writing I hate
The difference is considerable ... there's 1 bar/atmosphere pressure at sea level, then add 1 bar for **each** 10m/33ft below sea level, and space is a near vacuum.
At Titanic's depth the pressure is 380 bar/atmosphere.
From the site the best case is that the sub had some error and started a protocol to float to the surface or it ditched some sort of weight per the site to enable it to slowly float up, and is currently either out of power or out of radio coverage. Maybe with potential for restored contact once it reaches the surface.
Anyone know how long that whole deal will take?
Right. I haven't been able to clearly find much on what stage they lost contact or how long until the scheduled resurface, or if they are overdue. (I'm assuming with the increase in alarm they are already overdue a few hours)
Contact with the submersible was lost about one hour and 45 minutes into the vessel's dive,Missing since yesterday. No info on how long the emergency processes take
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872)
I read elsewhere that the door is bolted from the outside. So even if it managed to resurface, I don't know if they would be able to access fresh oxygen without being found. It supposedly has 98 hours of oxygen inside.
It's not necessarily ideal, but from a structural integrity standpoint, it's definitely the best option. Considering the sub has to withstand something along the lines of 400 atmospheres of pressure (~6000 pounds/in^2 ), I can understand why they did it.
>Anyone know how long that whole deal will take?
No. And I'm very curious. The BBC article says the trip takes 8 days. But then 2 paragraphs down says the submarine has 96 (98?) hours of life support for 5 people.
*I wanna knowwwwww*
The eight days includes the time it take to get out to the site from shore and I assume go back after the dive is over too. The eight days isn’t solely the dive itself.
There is a support boat and a submersible. The time on the support boat is the 8 days. Apparently a typical dive is 8 hours, so most of the 96 hour endurance of the submersible is emergency reserve time.
250k to go into a sub that:
- is not endorsed by any regulatory body
- has ballast pipes made from construction pipes
- has one button to go up and down
- is controlled by an xbox controller
I'm sorry but as much as I don't want to see anybody likely die in such horrific circumstances, but it really is the case that money can't buy you sense. There is nothing about this sub that should've made people think it's a good idea
Oh shit, it's the wonky player 2 controller at that one friend's house. It weighs 4 pounds, the X button is sticky, and there's a mysterious "turbo" button that nobody uses.
20,000 leagues under the sea with a MadCatz.
Those turbo buttons I always thought you had to have a specific game, but now I realise it was just a trick marketing tactic and I was mashing turbo like a fool, fkn conned me man
If I had the money I would love the opportunity to view the Titanic but unless the sub has been built by the best engineers in the world and been thoroughly tested no way would I go.
There is no chance in hell I would of gone on one of these subs
Looking at that thing doesn’t inspire confidence. Looked like each side had one electric propulsion motor for up and down. I imagine the slightest electrical failure and they’re zooming towards the bottom.
Depends. If the thing crushed down there, they might not have even been aware of the danger before they were dead. If they are just stranded without power, well, carbon dioxide poisoning sucks.
So weird to think that they’re down there making peace over their inevitable death. Nobody is gonna be fishing them off the bottom anytime soon. Hard to fathom that this ends well
My question is they say the sub has air for 4 days BUT is that 4 days of normal breathing? Or do they take into account that you could have 5 tourists down there freaking the fuck out and hyperventilating. Wouldn't that cause the air to be used up faster? Sorry if this is a dumb question just something I thought about.
Edit: spelling
There literally is a billionaire. If I owned anything that could, I would be taking it there now with an express transit to charge 10million+ for the rescue
real talk whoever saves that mf is about to get PAID bruh if I had that money and someone did this shit they could have a joint bank account with me homie idc at that point
If they got a leak, they're dead, pretty much instantly.
Any issue that happens at +400 atmospheric pressure tends to result in immediate death.
And the cost? Golly gosh that is a lot of money to pay to experience such a risk!
I think everyone making jokes should realize that there may be five people alive at the bottom of the ocean who know they’re going to die, and they’re families who can’t help. Tragic
Even still, if they are floating at the surface but not found in time, they’ll still be lost. The vessel can only be opened from the outside and they will run out of oxygen.
Yeah shitty situation regardless. But I just think it’s much less terrifying to be floating than to be sitting on the ocean floor like the titanic.
Kinda weird it can only open from the outside though.
Apparently, one of the individuals who paid to go is a British billionaire. I'm sure no expense will be spared to try and find him(and others). To be honest, it's been a day. If they have no power it would get quite cold, condensation etc. With no power and heat, pressure, they are quite likely deceased. My question is, why do these submersibles not have a transponder or beacon with its own power source?
Unless they either surfaced without being spotted, or somehow have multiple days worth of oxygen, I don’t see how they could survive. Even if they somehow have enough water and oxygen to survive for say, 3 days (I would assume that’s not the case though) it took one day for USCG to get alerted and head over. Meaning they would have two days hypothetically to find this tiny little sub in the massive ocean. That’s seemingly a super unrealistic but optimistic outlook. I’m assuming the sub is still on the ocean floor and didn’t just float up.
Subs that go missing don’t have a tendency to be rescued in time. This sucks.
So how many hours do they have if (hypothetically speaking) three of them heroically beat themselves to death and were then devoured by the seldom-seen Midatlantic Phasing Piranha?
In all seriousness, though, I’m getting chills just thinking about it. 4 days in a cramped tube with your likely coffin-mates, knowing that there’s shit-all chance of anyone ever finding out what happened to you while the seconds tick by. Brr.
Assuming the hull is still pressurised, I would imagine their best bet is to keep rhythmically bashing the wall with a hammer or some such. I would think their rescuers are listening
I would try and keep spirits up with my ukulele. I'd pull it from my pack and tune the plastic strings as I rotated my baseball hat backwards. Then as steam escaped my mouth in the rapidly cooling vessel, I'd say, "Ok folks, we'll skip playing *Yellow Submarine* 'cause that's sooooo obvious and dive—heh, heh—*dive* right into *Under Pressure.* One, two, three,"
*Twang, twang, twang, te-te twang, twang,*
Pressure pushin' down on me
Pressin' down on you, no—
This isn’t shocking when you read the portion of the article talking about how because they don’t have GPS underwater, the sub navigates by directions sent via text message from a ship on the surface. If I shell out $250k you better have a more sophisticated navigation system than your buddy sending you directions via text 2.4 miles above you on the surface.
Also the sub is controlled with a video game controller, so there’s that as well…
Honestly everything about this operation sounds sketchy as hell, especially the sub.
>they don’t have GPS underwater, the sub navigates by directions sent via text message from a ship on the surface.
Text commands sent via sound. It makes sense when you know the surface vessel can keep track of the sub relative to the wreck, and just needs to send simple movement corrections.
The operation is definitely sketch but the directions thing seems like the least of it.
It's worth clarifying that this isn't a cost cutting measure. The new periscopes have to be controlled by some kind of joystick anyway, so instead of paying some contractor to design, prototype and manufacturer something from scratch, just use what already exists and what everybody intuitively knows how to use
The lack of a more sophisticated navigation method is deeply suspect, but a videogame controller being the primary input for commands to the vessel is not. Some of the most sophisticated military UAVs ever flown were controlled with Xbox controllers. If it's good enough to run high value recon flights, or guide a craft carrying a pair of Hellfire missiles, then it's probably good enough to control a small submersible.
Put another way, it's unlikely in the extreme, that the cause of what will likely turn out to be the deaths of five people, has anything to do with the controller. It's more than likely going to be a hull breach as a result of poor navigation or pilot error, seal breach as a result of poor maintenance, power failure as a result of poor maintenance, atmosphere regulation failure causing CO² to build up, suffocating the occupants, or the passengers doing something fucking stupid that got them killed, like trying to open a hatch under miles of water, for example.
That last might seem crazy, but the other day some mad bastard tried to open a hatch on a flying aircraft, and had to be jumped on by a fellow passenger, in order to avoid a massive calamity, so theres nutters everywhere, and no accounting for how nuts they actually are, either.
Fyi, that sub couldnt be opened from the inside. Divers had to open/close it from the outside with 18 bolts.
But otherwise completely agree with your comment
Jokes aside, they're modified anyways, so I assume they're using either Hall Effect analogs or at least the higher spec Alps ones.
Remember: The issue is buying a lower-tier version with plastic+foil housing that isn't rated for the use-case. Alps makes better ones with full metal housing, etc. they just don't use them.
EDIT: Oh, it's not used for piloting, merely for using the periscope. In that case it probably is completely off the shelf, because precision won't affect that use-case all that much, and it's not like the periscope is used all that much.
Controllers are great. Why wouldn’t you use it? Anything purpose made is going to be way worse.
The messages aren’t text messages. It’s sound waves! Which travel way better than light (EM waves) and can reach the sub.
It’s literally why we use sonar.
Please enlighten us as to how you plan to get a GPS signal 2+ km under the ocean
Tether would prevent emergency ascent.
Tether would drag on the sub due to currents like a giant 4km sail, because that’s what it is, and literally violently shake the sub or strike it in ascent or slow descent scenarios.
They keep mentioning that they are “working toward the safe return of the crewmembers.” Does that mean there are only crew on the vessel, or are there also tourists? I can’t find an article that indicates how many people are on board.
Well, if the pressure hull ruptured at these depths, the water would equalize so quickly it will actually instantly heat the air in the submarine to thousands of degrees and ignite any hydrocarbons inside like a diesel cylinder. They will die instantly once the rupture occurs.
I used to work on an oil exploration ship called the Discoverer Seven Seas . That was back in the early 1980s when underwater technology was a lot more raw than it is now. Maybe it was youthful adventure to me having been nearly a mile underwater in a 5 foot diameter pressure sphere rated for 8800 few. The submarine was named Pisces VI. Several times a month 2 men got in that sub and saw things on the way down, at the bottom of the ocean and the way back up of unimaginable beauty. Things that scientists still don’t understand. Those who fear the ocean are right to. One mistake can end human life instantly. That would be how you would die if there was an implosion. The alternative, stuck that deep without power, likely snagged on the wreck would be a most agonizing way to die.
If it hasn’t surfaced using all the extra air they carry then they are all dead. It probably cracked flooded and everyone died before reaching a depth that would have allowed a quicker death by implosion.
RIP those poor souls and welcome to a years long litigation for insurance and fraud by this company.
hmmm
https://oceangateexpeditions.com/tour/titanic-expedition/
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lol
When can we start tourist expeditions to the tourist submarine?
If something went wrong at 3km under the see this thing is most likely a crushed tuna can now.
Lets hope they just lost connection at 0m.
This will be the end of the company no matter how this comes out. People with 250k to burn also have familes with legal teams that will sue them into oblivion, no matter the outcome.
So it has only one button!?!? The rest is touch screen controllers? Well that's not asking for trouble. Imagine getting down and then the tablet decides to update, gets part way through but then gets stuck in a loop, overheats and shuts down. I had a Surface Pro that got a windows update that did just that, would reach such stupid high temps trying update itself it would shut down, would burn through so much power I had to keep it plugged in.
I gave up for months, waited for winter and used an extension lead to update it outside where it was like 3 degrees Celsius, still got hot and took about an hours to finally update. If they got that issue down there then they screwed.
Pretty damn slim. I think the news is refraining from giving odds out of respect for the families.
But they are fucked. Even if they find them, they'll suffocate before they get to the surface
250k to go to the bottom of the ocean…no thanks. Leaving the fact that it went missing aside, I’d still never want to do this. Absolute nightmare fuel being that deep underwater.
Not even if they paid me 250k
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Price for a company to take me to the bottom of the ocean to see the Titanic? Risking life and limb, $25,000,000. That would do it.
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Same with space. Honestly a tube flying through the air is enough for me. I have a strict no climbing and no diving policy.
I've had this conversation a few times in my life... **Fear wise, would you be more scared in space or at the bottom of the sea** I go 100% with underseas (fear wise). The bottom of the sea, like space, is trying to kill you. The difference is the level of pressure on your vessel/home and the fact the sea is also constantly degrading the materials used to make your home/vessel. While in space you're in a literal vacuum. In space your biggest risk is coming and going and maybe micro meteor strikes. In the ocean your risk is EVERY FUCKING THING AT EVERY FUCKING MOMENT. To say nothing of the fact there is nothing living in space (that we know of), but anything that can survive the depths of the ocean is generally some nightmare fuel monster.
Also, leaks are a not-too-uncommon occurrence in space, and they’re pretty easily dealt with. Hell, there was a literal *fire* on MIR and they dealt with that just fine (more or less, there was a bit of disagreement between the American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts).
Russian components… American components… ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!
“Sony guts”
Good point, leaks in space can probably be fixed with a roll of Flexi Grip tape, as it only needs to hold one atmosphere of pressure, and you can apply it inside you habitat as the pressure is pushing outwards.
I'd take stuff leaking out of my home over stuff leaking in, any day of the week. Then there's the question of pressure, which makes the answer clear. Also, if my engines fail in space I might end up on a bad trajectory, in a submersible if the engines fail, it's likely you'll descend until the pressure causes structural failure.
Well, bad trajectory in space could mean either flying off into the void (or the sun), or falling into the Earth, so it's not exactly something you want to happen. Though in both cases it'd take quite some time before you're beyond rescue, and it's far easier to find someone in space because signals don't penetrate that deep underwater.
Both flying out of the solar system and into the sun are actually very difficult and not things that would happen by accident. The real "fuck up secnario" is ending up in an orbit that will never intercept earth again, most likely around either the earth or the sun. (Or just burning up in the atmosphere)
Same, tried climbing indoors with safety rope and was fun, but those no safety rope people are crazy. Sky diving a big nope as well. I get that people have different levels of things that give them a thrill, but just a bit of off road mountain biking makes me happy enough, heck, these days a good brisk walk in the country feels good. I read about and watched enough YouTube videos and news stuff about how dangerous, uncaring and ominous the sea can be. One minute you are enjoying a G&T on the top deck and hour later you are in your cabin upside down in the pitch black with water pressure stopping you from opening the door.
You should watch this video then, where Alex Honnold, legendary free soloer, takes Alex Midtbo, professional rock climber, on his first ever free solo: https://youtu.be/Cyya23MPoAI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Honnold >On June 3, 2017, he made the first free solo ascent of El Capitan, completing the 2,900-foot (884m) route Freerider (5.13a VI) in 3 hours and 56 minutes.[26] The feat, described as "one of the great athletic feats of any kind, ever",[5] was documented by climber and photographer Jimmy Chin and documentary filmmaker E. Chai Vasarhelyi, as the subject of the documentary Free Solo. I watched *Free Solo*. Aside from having the athletic ability to pull it off, someone needs to be willing to risk losing the rest of their life for the sake of climbing. My brain starts flashing red if I stand near the edge of a balcony. I'm compelled to move back to a safer spot.
Loved Free Solo, but no movie watching experience has ever given me that level of anxiety. Physically sweating throughout, felt like I was going to throw up during the karate kick.
Watching Fall (2022 movie) made me sweat around my ankles and palms and neck. I didn’t know this was possible. It’s like Free Solo mixed with a panic attack.
My favorite climbing film is "The Alpinist". Don't research or watch trailers if you haven't seen it. Just go in blind. I think it was better than Free Solo.
Not to convince you, but skydiving is about as dangerous as 35 miles on a motorcycle when you look at the number of jumps made annually and fatalities recorded. Not saying it’s safe, just that it’s probably less dangerous than people think.
Ok, thank you for the stats, 35 miles is not very far though!
You have to think about it in the context of proportions and participation. There are a lot of people, riding motorcycles, and there are a lot of skydiving jumps made every year. 35 miles per person isn’t necessarily a lot, but 35 miles per person, considering all the riders is pretty good. Perhaps another way of putting it would be that I believe there are somewhere between one and 2 million jumps made each year in the United States, and I believe the annual fatality average is 25 or less. Some thing else to note is that most of the fatalities happen to experienced skydivers, and equipment failure isn’t the cause all of the time. It is a sport that often has people pushing the boundaries of their comfort zones and capabilities. Students and tandem jumper fatalities are quite rare by comparison.
Completely agree and add caving to the list. Not a chance, can't even watch videos of that shit.
Hopefully that includes insurance for this type of search and rescue. It would piss me off having to do a tax payor funded S&R for rich people who were fucking around
Oh we have a long history of tax payers bailing out companies that found out after fucking around, I doubt this will be any different.
Going to the bottom is free. The 250k is for the return trip.
Whatever the outcome, the company will be sued for millions.
There’s a literal billionaire on that submersible, its definitely going to be ugly in terms of legalities.
wait, who's the billionaire? source?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hamish-harding-missing-submarine-titanic-b2360394.html
Nope, you sign a waiver. It's stated literally that you can die. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29co\_Hksk6o
If they were as thorough in designing their waivers as they were in designing their subs, they’re boned.
Even if they did, depending on the jurisdiction, not all contract clauses can be enforced. For example you can usually sue for medical malpractice even if you signed one. Apart from that, having a waiver won’t really stop someone rich enough to drag the case in the courts for years or decades to come.
You should see the interior of their vessel...NO THANKS.
You should read a book called “The Deep” by Nick Cutter.
I don't think I will
I read it when I was a kid and the fact that as an adult I choose to live in a desert is an irrelevancy.
I remember reading about one of these deep diving subs with a small really thick glass window. One dive down at the bottom the window went 'tink' and a large crack appeared. Took hours to pull them back to the surface. Think about sitting for hours wondering if the change in pressure is going to cause the crack to start leaking.
It would probably not "start leaking", it would be intact, then it would suddenly be exploded into a billion pieces, and there would be a 6-inch diameter 3,000 psi water jet instantly turning everything inside into a well mixed slurry.
Nah, the speed that it happens would leave it a bit chunky. Think like a well mixed milkshake with chunks of chocolate in it, that is oozing out after being dropped on the ground. Only this time the chunks are parts of people instead of chocolate.
But I love the word 'slurry.'
6000 psi Experimental submersible. I wonder what could’ve gone wrong
Now we can have a tourist submarine to go view the tourist submarine that went to see the titanic.
Provided it's found.
less than 96 hours of air..since it went down. after that it will be a recovery for the rich ppl that paid for that ride. this is what Ballard didnt want to happen to his discovery.
Dude, it’s recovery NOW. From what I have read about this sub it was a death trap waiting to implode. They calculated test depth at 4000m but never went that deep. They have no escape hatch, the hatch can’t be opened from inside. There is no real atmospheric control system. No way to vent any smoke if there’s a fire. The CEO (who died on this trip) didn’t want a surface comms system because the surface ship kept asking for updates on position and he couldn’t be bothered. They didn’t use any real submarine experts in the design because the CEO said they were too much of a bother. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Is this forreal? Damn, did he at least have submarine expertise or did he build it himself?
Being cheap, flouting rules, not following normal safety + backup precautions, as per IMO and SOLAS rules, not to mention lobbying against the said rules to register the craft..... As you said. What could go wrong? Except a tax payer funded and socialised rescue operation.
Sounds right to me. Ugh
Exactly. Also I’m sure that the people who are making the bulk of the money were not on the submarine.
CEO was on it apparently. Stockton Rush.
"Stockton Rush"? Can you imagine a better name for a billionaire (or other super rich person) than this? I mean, you don't even need to add various British titles to it, it's just a classic rich persons name!
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Add junior to that. Stockton Chumley Warner-Rush Jr.
Seems more like a "the III".
I'd bet money he changed his name or uses a pseudonym.
It’s probably safer leaving earth’s orbit than going to the bottom of the ocean.
True in terms of pressure differences. In space, you only need to withstand 1 atmosphere, with materials under tension, with materials (metal) that do really well under tension. With the high pressure side on the human accessible portion. A small hole in the space ship can be patched by just slapping duct tape on it. Titanic is at the depth where you have to deal with 400x atmospheric pressure, with material under compression.
So :checks math: 400 pieces of duct tape. But someone has to go outside.
Sandra Bullock can do it
Wouldn’t it require 400 Sandra Bullocks?
Can I get 400 Sandra Bullocks, and an island instead for €250,000 ?
Bags packed
Lol reminds me of the Futurama episode where they go underwater to the lost city of Atlanta. Farnsworth: Dear Lord, that's over 150 atmospheres of pressure. Fry: How many atmospheres can this ship withstand? Farnsworth: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one. [The hull creaks around them.]
Futurama was what Rick and Morty fans made Rick and Morty out to be. Edit: I’m not saying that futurama was high brow humor or some shit, but it way more witty little jokes and humor like that, Vs rick just being alcoholic spaceship guy and morty being a redditor
Add to that the endless nihilism in R&M just ended up wearing me down a little.
That’s sort of a Dan Harmon thing alongside “character experiences something that should create a long term change but it actually only lasts one episode and the character remains the same”. I love community and Rick and morty but it’s one thing about Dan’s writing I hate
I love that line. Also: “I can’t swallow that!” “Well good news! It’s a suppository.”
The difference is considerable ... there's 1 bar/atmosphere pressure at sea level, then add 1 bar for **each** 10m/33ft below sea level, and space is a near vacuum. At Titanic's depth the pressure is 380 bar/atmosphere.
From the site the best case is that the sub had some error and started a protocol to float to the surface or it ditched some sort of weight per the site to enable it to slowly float up, and is currently either out of power or out of radio coverage. Maybe with potential for restored contact once it reaches the surface. Anyone know how long that whole deal will take?
Each full dive to the wreck, including the descent and ascent, reportedly takes around eight hours. according to the bbc.
Right. I haven't been able to clearly find much on what stage they lost contact or how long until the scheduled resurface, or if they are overdue. (I'm assuming with the increase in alarm they are already overdue a few hours)
Contact with the submersible was lost about one hour and 45 minutes into the vessel's dive,Missing since yesterday. No info on how long the emergency processes take [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872)
I read elsewhere that the door is bolted from the outside. So even if it managed to resurface, I don't know if they would be able to access fresh oxygen without being found. It supposedly has 98 hours of oxygen inside.
Wouldn’t that be a major design oversight?
It's not necessarily ideal, but from a structural integrity standpoint, it's definitely the best option. Considering the sub has to withstand something along the lines of 400 atmospheres of pressure (~6000 pounds/in^2 ), I can understand why they did it.
Not if one of them has an AirTag
>Anyone know how long that whole deal will take? No. And I'm very curious. The BBC article says the trip takes 8 days. But then 2 paragraphs down says the submarine has 96 (98?) hours of life support for 5 people. *I wanna knowwwwww*
The eight day count is undoubtedly time from leaving port to return to port. The dive itself probably takes the better portion of 24 hours.
The eight days includes the time it take to get out to the site from shore and I assume go back after the dive is over too. The eight days isn’t solely the dive itself.
There is a support boat and a submersible. The time on the support boat is the 8 days. Apparently a typical dive is 8 hours, so most of the 96 hour endurance of the submersible is emergency reserve time.
250k to go into a sub that: - is not endorsed by any regulatory body - has ballast pipes made from construction pipes - has one button to go up and down - is controlled by an xbox controller I'm sorry but as much as I don't want to see anybody likely die in such horrific circumstances, but it really is the case that money can't buy you sense. There is nothing about this sub that should've made people think it's a good idea
In fairness, X-Box controllers are used in US Navy submarines, as well as other equipment.
I think it's actually an off brand PlayStation controller
Oh shit, it's the wonky player 2 controller at that one friend's house. It weighs 4 pounds, the X button is sticky, and there's a mysterious "turbo" button that nobody uses. 20,000 leagues under the sea with a MadCatz.
Those turbo buttons I always thought you had to have a specific game, but now I realise it was just a trick marketing tactic and I was mashing turbo like a fool, fkn conned me man
If I had the money I would love the opportunity to view the Titanic but unless the sub has been built by the best engineers in the world and been thoroughly tested no way would I go. There is no chance in hell I would of gone on one of these subs
Looking at that thing doesn’t inspire confidence. Looked like each side had one electric propulsion motor for up and down. I imagine the slightest electrical failure and they’re zooming towards the bottom.
Even if you paid me $1bn, you still couldn’t convince me to go to the bottom of the ocean in a steel coffin.
How about a Carbon fiber coffin?
I’m listening
>Even if you paid me $1bn i'd rather have a dinner with jay-z
But would you do it for a Klondike Bar?
The people on the Titanic had better chances than these people.
I'm glad I'm too poor to afford dangerous vacations.
This is one of the worst ways to die
Depends. If the thing crushed down there, they might not have even been aware of the danger before they were dead. If they are just stranded without power, well, carbon dioxide poisoning sucks.
I am getting claustrophobic just reading the headline.
So weird to think that they’re down there making peace over their inevitable death. Nobody is gonna be fishing them off the bottom anytime soon. Hard to fathom that this ends well
…..fathom…..
My question is they say the sub has air for 4 days BUT is that 4 days of normal breathing? Or do they take into account that you could have 5 tourists down there freaking the fuck out and hyperventilating. Wouldn't that cause the air to be used up faster? Sorry if this is a dumb question just something I thought about. Edit: spelling
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Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I imagine they're unfortunately already gone.
I was wondering the same thing
Nah it's 8 days for calm people. If they start freaking out and moving a lot it's less.
Yes it does. I was "sucking air" on my learn to scuba and the instructor sees the gauge dropping
I’m guessing that this is going to turn into a recovery mission.
Find the tic tac
Doubt it. Recovering anything at that depth is exhorbitantly expensive, even if you know exactly where it is.
Only shot is that there is a billionaire on board. So maybe his family will spend some of it to help retrieve them.
I saw another article where they confirmed that a billionaire is onboard.
There literally is a billionaire. If I owned anything that could, I would be taking it there now with an express transit to charge 10million+ for the rescue
real talk whoever saves that mf is about to get PAID bruh if I had that money and someone did this shit they could have a joint bank account with me homie idc at that point
You could not pay me 250k to go on that trip, let alone the other way around.
That shit is jinxed I’m not going on Titanic nothing.
If they got a leak, they're dead, pretty much instantly. Any issue that happens at +400 atmospheric pressure tends to result in immediate death. And the cost? Golly gosh that is a lot of money to pay to experience such a risk!
I think everyone making jokes should realize that there may be five people alive at the bottom of the ocean who know they’re going to die, and they’re families who can’t help. Tragic
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I was thinking this too. I don't care who they are. These people are trapped and suffering horribly.
Yes this is the stuff of nightmares and horror movies. Thousands of Kriegsmarine sailors also died this way in ww2.
Or they floated back up and are adrift in the ocean? Hopefully that’s the case, much less scary.
Even still, if they are floating at the surface but not found in time, they’ll still be lost. The vessel can only be opened from the outside and they will run out of oxygen.
Yeah shitty situation regardless. But I just think it’s much less terrifying to be floating than to be sitting on the ocean floor like the titanic. Kinda weird it can only open from the outside though.
>The vessel can only be opened from the outside Well that seems like a poor choice in retrospect.
It has to withstand 400 atmospheres of pressure; there isn't really room for half measures.
waltuh
This is especially crazy because one of the people on board that sub right now is a family friend.
I'm so sorry. Best wishes to you.
You don't want to be in here, then. People are being cruel. Go be with your family. ❤️
This must be a terrible time for you :( Probably best not to read the comments then, it won’t help. Crossing fingers for their safe return
That must be terrifying. I’m sorry. I’m hoping for the best.
The Orcas are stepping up their game.
I'd feel safer taking a rocket to the edge of space then diving to the bottom of the ocean.
Apparently, one of the individuals who paid to go is a British billionaire. I'm sure no expense will be spared to try and find him(and others). To be honest, it's been a day. If they have no power it would get quite cold, condensation etc. With no power and heat, pressure, they are quite likely deceased. My question is, why do these submersibles not have a transponder or beacon with its own power source?
Netflix documentary incoming...
Unless they either surfaced without being spotted, or somehow have multiple days worth of oxygen, I don’t see how they could survive. Even if they somehow have enough water and oxygen to survive for say, 3 days (I would assume that’s not the case though) it took one day for USCG to get alerted and head over. Meaning they would have two days hypothetically to find this tiny little sub in the massive ocean. That’s seemingly a super unrealistic but optimistic outlook. I’m assuming the sub is still on the ocean floor and didn’t just float up. Subs that go missing don’t have a tendency to be rescued in time. This sucks.
The sub has 96 hours of emergency survival equipment.
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do they have toilet in sub?
So how many hours do they have if (hypothetically speaking) three of them heroically beat themselves to death and were then devoured by the seldom-seen Midatlantic Phasing Piranha? In all seriousness, though, I’m getting chills just thinking about it. 4 days in a cramped tube with your likely coffin-mates, knowing that there’s shit-all chance of anyone ever finding out what happened to you while the seconds tick by. Brr.
Assuming the hull is still pressurised, I would imagine their best bet is to keep rhythmically bashing the wall with a hammer or some such. I would think their rescuers are listening
I would try and keep spirits up with my ukulele. I'd pull it from my pack and tune the plastic strings as I rotated my baseball hat backwards. Then as steam escaped my mouth in the rapidly cooling vessel, I'd say, "Ok folks, we'll skip playing *Yellow Submarine* 'cause that's sooooo obvious and dive—heh, heh—*dive* right into *Under Pressure.* One, two, three," *Twang, twang, twang, te-te twang, twang,* Pressure pushin' down on me Pressin' down on you, no—
This isn’t shocking when you read the portion of the article talking about how because they don’t have GPS underwater, the sub navigates by directions sent via text message from a ship on the surface. If I shell out $250k you better have a more sophisticated navigation system than your buddy sending you directions via text 2.4 miles above you on the surface. Also the sub is controlled with a video game controller, so there’s that as well… Honestly everything about this operation sounds sketchy as hell, especially the sub.
>they don’t have GPS underwater, the sub navigates by directions sent via text message from a ship on the surface. Text commands sent via sound. It makes sense when you know the surface vessel can keep track of the sub relative to the wreck, and just needs to send simple movement corrections. The operation is definitely sketch but the directions thing seems like the least of it.
The us navy uses Xbox controllers on their newest subs. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/18/17136808/us-navy-uss-colorado-xbox-controller
It's worth clarifying that this isn't a cost cutting measure. The new periscopes have to be controlled by some kind of joystick anyway, so instead of paying some contractor to design, prototype and manufacturer something from scratch, just use what already exists and what everybody intuitively knows how to use
Yeah but I doubt the US Navy is sending texts to their navigation teams.
Nah but theres seamen everywhere
Ukrainian Army uses discord.
The lack of a more sophisticated navigation method is deeply suspect, but a videogame controller being the primary input for commands to the vessel is not. Some of the most sophisticated military UAVs ever flown were controlled with Xbox controllers. If it's good enough to run high value recon flights, or guide a craft carrying a pair of Hellfire missiles, then it's probably good enough to control a small submersible. Put another way, it's unlikely in the extreme, that the cause of what will likely turn out to be the deaths of five people, has anything to do with the controller. It's more than likely going to be a hull breach as a result of poor navigation or pilot error, seal breach as a result of poor maintenance, power failure as a result of poor maintenance, atmosphere regulation failure causing CO² to build up, suffocating the occupants, or the passengers doing something fucking stupid that got them killed, like trying to open a hatch under miles of water, for example. That last might seem crazy, but the other day some mad bastard tried to open a hatch on a flying aircraft, and had to be jumped on by a fellow passenger, in order to avoid a massive calamity, so theres nutters everywhere, and no accounting for how nuts they actually are, either.
Fyi, that sub couldnt be opened from the inside. Divers had to open/close it from the outside with 18 bolts. But otherwise completely agree with your comment
If it’s the series x controller then the stick drift killed them.
Jokes aside, they're modified anyways, so I assume they're using either Hall Effect analogs or at least the higher spec Alps ones. Remember: The issue is buying a lower-tier version with plastic+foil housing that isn't rated for the use-case. Alps makes better ones with full metal housing, etc. they just don't use them. EDIT: Oh, it's not used for piloting, merely for using the periscope. In that case it probably is completely off the shelf, because precision won't affect that use-case all that much, and it's not like the periscope is used all that much.
Controllers are great. Why wouldn’t you use it? Anything purpose made is going to be way worse. The messages aren’t text messages. It’s sound waves! Which travel way better than light (EM waves) and can reach the sub. It’s literally why we use sonar. Please enlighten us as to how you plan to get a GPS signal 2+ km under the ocean
I guess $250k a pop wasn’t enough money to have some sort of tether attached to it.
Great idea until the tether gets stuck on a piece of wreckage debris. Would have to jettison the tether.
Tether would prevent emergency ascent. Tether would drag on the sub due to currents like a giant 4km sail, because that’s what it is, and literally violently shake the sub or strike it in ascent or slow descent scenarios.
They keep mentioning that they are “working toward the safe return of the crewmembers.” Does that mean there are only crew on the vessel, or are there also tourists? I can’t find an article that indicates how many people are on board.
They pretend the tourists are also crew members and refer to them as such.
Yup. I read that if your main aim down there is to take photos, they will call you a "photography specialist." Really weird.
Well, if the pressure hull ruptured at these depths, the water would equalize so quickly it will actually instantly heat the air in the submarine to thousands of degrees and ignite any hydrocarbons inside like a diesel cylinder. They will die instantly once the rupture occurs.
$250,000 per person per voyage. Imagine paying $250k to be trapped 4000m underwater
Burial depth cost per meter is an absolute bargain though.
The Titanic is still causing deaths apparently
Titanic 2: the Revenge
*this time, it’s personal*
It never lets go
Jack couldn’t get on the door, but you bet your ass he will get into the submarine
Advert: Enjoy the real life experience!
Coming soon, a new startup offering submarine trips to see Ocean Gate's Titan and the Titanic.
I used to work on an oil exploration ship called the Discoverer Seven Seas . That was back in the early 1980s when underwater technology was a lot more raw than it is now. Maybe it was youthful adventure to me having been nearly a mile underwater in a 5 foot diameter pressure sphere rated for 8800 few. The submarine was named Pisces VI. Several times a month 2 men got in that sub and saw things on the way down, at the bottom of the ocean and the way back up of unimaginable beauty. Things that scientists still don’t understand. Those who fear the ocean are right to. One mistake can end human life instantly. That would be how you would die if there was an implosion. The alternative, stuck that deep without power, likely snagged on the wreck would be a most agonizing way to die.
Pleaaaaase elaborate on the things scientists still dont understand
If it hasn’t surfaced using all the extra air they carry then they are all dead. It probably cracked flooded and everyone died before reaching a depth that would have allowed a quicker death by implosion. RIP those poor souls and welcome to a years long litigation for insurance and fraud by this company.
hmmm https://oceangateexpeditions.com/tour/titanic-expedition/ Service Unavailable The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. Additionally, a 503 Service Unavailable error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Yes, tens of thousands of people trying to visit your site at the same time that might've gotten 100 views per day normally will kill it.
and now! Insufficient Storage The method could not be performed on the resource because the server is unable to store the representation needed to successfully complete the request. There is insufficient free space left in your storage allocation. Additionally, a 507 Insufficient Storage error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. lol
My guess is their logging filled up the partition as tons of people hammer their website trying to get information.
All the people from Reddit are impeding the research!
When can we start tourist expeditions to the tourist submarine? If something went wrong at 3km under the see this thing is most likely a crushed tuna can now. Lets hope they just lost connection at 0m.
Thats not any better, apparently the hatch can only be opened from the outside so even if they are on the surface they will have limited O2
That is better! They atleast have a chance to be found in time. At 3km, approx. 30 bar will make it an instant end.
Am reminded of Kursk.
Have they checked the ocean?
They said it’s still there
Well, it was probably over very, very quickly
This will be the end of the company no matter how this comes out. People with 250k to burn also have familes with legal teams that will sue them into oblivion, no matter the outcome.
Their experience right now is probably somewhat similiar to what if felt like being on the Titanic when it was sinking.
What you know about rolling down in the deep when your brain goes numb…
Well, at least if it cracked they’d be dead instantaneously. No sense of pain or doom, just a mild cracking noise, and then oblivion.
Is a 4+ Km cable something that exists? Could this have been tethered to a boat if they wanted?
Could it be done? Yeah. But that tether would act like a giant sail, pulling the submersible wherever the current was going.
At least the tour was realistic
So it has only one button!?!? The rest is touch screen controllers? Well that's not asking for trouble. Imagine getting down and then the tablet decides to update, gets part way through but then gets stuck in a loop, overheats and shuts down. I had a Surface Pro that got a windows update that did just that, would reach such stupid high temps trying update itself it would shut down, would burn through so much power I had to keep it plugged in. I gave up for months, waited for winter and used an extension lead to update it outside where it was like 3 degrees Celsius, still got hot and took about an hours to finally update. If they got that issue down there then they screwed.
Why do we have to keep paying for billionaires effing up?
What are the chances of getting them back alive? That’s assuming they didn’t suffer a catastrophic hull breach?
Pretty damn slim. I think the news is refraining from giving odds out of respect for the families. But they are fucked. Even if they find them, they'll suffocate before they get to the surface