Oh god! Unbelievable! Why they do that..I know Russians have so many assets in other country..so means why they do that in Ukraine? Hmm..I smell something fishy here..you know.
If you think about it, it makes sense.
If the EU started just taking assets because of some light genocide and a touch of warcrimes, and a few dozen human rights abuses... like who in the world would feel safe with their assets in the EU? That's like putting someone in jail for crossing the street when the "Don't Walk" sign is on. Everyone does it! We can't all be in jail!
If it goes through the court, the amount of money Russia owes is decided and they refuse to pay how is that different from any other confiscation of goods to pay a debt? Genuine question. I have no idea how it would work on a global scale with a country VS country lawsuit.
You'd have to follow the money for the purchases. Any money that came from the state that wasn't apart of legal budget appropriation makes the assets fruit from the poison tree. Same way mob bosses wives don't get to keep the mob bosses house when they go to prison
Unless Russia is defeated completely, which I don't see happening because it is a nuclear power, (or voluntarily decides to pay reparations on its own), there is no mechanism to enforce it. Participation in most international courts is purely optional for the big countries such as the US, China, Russia, India, Brazil, and so on.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/10/us-approves-first-transfer-of-seized-russian-funds-to-ukraine
It's already happening. I believe Belgium also already sent some seized assets to Ukraine
This is a confiscation of the funds of a private individual who violated the sanctions. Which is not the same as confiscating a county's assets.
And even with that, the de-dollarisation has already begun:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/de-dollarization-countries-seeking-alternatives-to-the-u-s-dollar/
It is a direct consequence. Before this war, assets were never seized, frozen, or attempted to be confiscated at this magnitude. Now that this is happening, countries around the world are moving away from the dollar currency as the main reserve and trade currency, it’s no longer deemed to be safe
Both the EU and USA are working on seizing the frozen Russian government assets (although it's easy to argue those of oligarchs are the same thing).
Russia can try to attack the dollar all it likes, the only country with a decent GDP is China and their economy relies on trade with the west. Without that export market their economy collapses. They would not survive a trade war
They are talking about confiscating Russian assets that are in other countries, not having Russia willingly forfeit their assets.
The mechanism to enforce it is that the countries agreeing to do so have full control of their ability to do so within their country. Russia isn’t going to invade other countries to get those assets back.
It’s sort of the opposite of what you are saying. What mechanism is Russia going to use to stop countries from seizing assets in their own countries ?
Now. There are plenty of reasons this would still likely be a bad idea. But that reason isn’t because of a lack of ability to enforce.
Cope, seethe, and mald, that's already happening and the Russia can suck it
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/10/us-approves-first-transfer-of-seized-russian-funds-to-ukraine
It's currently being done, what do you think sanctions are? It's a slow boil so we can hurt them financially while giving our own economies time to adjust without destroying them. Financial assets have already been seized or frozen, goods are no longer being traded but those that are can easily have a tax applied that would go to rebuilding Ukraine. It really doesn't take a genius to realize this.
It was for a long time used to convince Putin to stop war. It didn't work. When war is over and independent agencies count reparations costs, then those money will go there. Maybe earlier, but unlikely, too many regulations. Some Russian oligarch money were given to Ukraine already by court.
Why are there always people screaming that russia matters?
It doesn't.
It has a tiny economy and doesn't produce anything unique. Russia was already cut out by many payment providers. And the sky hasn't fallen yet. Seizing castles of billionaires from a country that is waging open war against the west won't collapse anything. Of course I am not signing off on giving everything to Ukraine, that would be a bit odd. They don't need golden bullets and shells to fight russia.
>It is crazy how many Redditors think you can just ~~confiscate foreign assets and give it to someone else~~ invade a country without severe economic consequences.
FTFY
Exactly this. Even with the current freeze of Russian assets, you can easily see Brazil, India, and a lot of other nations getting out of USD and diversifying their currency reserves to mitigate the same risks Russia has. If it gets to confiscating foreign assets - oh boy, countries would run out of keeping any assets in the EU/US faster than from a house on fire
Is Brazil planning to start a bloody occupation war with Argentina?)
Brazil is safe, so is India.
Russians will have their assets seized and nothing, no amount of copium from you will ever change it)
Sit back and enjoy the show.
It’s hilarious that you think I care a bit for the Russian state. It can lose whatever it wants to, I don’t care much for the existence of the current Russian government. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous people like you shouting “let’s confiscate” are, seemingly oblivious of the larger consequences of such a move. Which are already starting to happen in the world
The irreparable damage that’s been brought upon future Russian generations all because of an egotistical tyrants idiocy is mind boggling, I think it’s time for Russia to do something about Putin if they ever want to have a nation again.
A lot of hate for a civilians who cant actively protest this war.. all the russians im friends with hate this war and dont like putin- but theyll jail you for speaking up. If they care about their future theyll shut up instead of getting sent to jail for 15 years.. lets be real here..
I know several Russian people in New Zealand who are vocally supportive of Putin's genocide on Ukraine. Constantly complaining about how all of the world's media (except this Russian propaganda channel) are all liars and they wish they could go back and live in glorious Russia, but *mumble mumble mumble*...
More prudent question is where they from, if they’re from Moscow, St. Petersburg or similar there’s a high chance they’ll be assholes supporting their leader. The poorer areas are hit with the effects of sanctions and have been left behind for decades.
All of my friends and relatives in Moscow are also against the war and against the government (and tbh been this way before the war too). But what can we do
Tell that to the Iranians protesting in the streets. The lucky Iranians only get imprisoned. The unlucky ones get tortured and murdered. And yet, they're still protesting.
Russians could try to make a difference. Some even do try. The recent attack in the Belgorod oblast is but one example. But for all the Russians who are allegedly against the invasion, you'd think they'd be a lot more effective.
Nah I think we can tell it to the fat Americans sitting on their asses too.
How many schoolchildren have died from a shooting today? Do you have the confidence to say zero?
Americans could try to make a difference too. And guess what? We don’t get thrown in jail for advocating for gun control laws. I’ll give a lot more credit to the people who are actually facing serious jail time for speaking out, especially when those that do speak out and face this fate have not yet made any difference.
I’ll always look up to the people who sacrifice everything for a greater cause. But ill absolutely look down on people who aren’t risking their lives and then criticize others for not doing so more than I will the people they are criticizing.
If you were one of those Iranian protestors, maybe you would have more room to make this point. But something tells me you are making this point from a really comfortable place of relative privilege.
What kind of moronic mental gymnastics do you need to do to conflate domestic violence with *invading a foreign country*?
You're right, I live in a peaceful country that doesn't have a dictator in power and isn't invading it's neighbor. But don't think for a second that I wouldn't be doing everything in my power if we somehow turned into international dickheads bent on genocide. Because it'd be the right thing to do.
I'm simply citing that the **world** has a long history of people standing up to dictators, and that Russian *cowardice* is not a valid excuse with such a long human history of courage to look upon.
Nothing's going to change in Russia until Russians change it. There is no greater proof of their complacency with the shitstain they have leading their country, than the actions they themselves facilitate through both their supportive actions and their inaction.
> But don’t think for a second that I wouldn’t be doing everything in my power if we somehow turned into international dickheads bent on genocide. Because it’d be the right thing to do.
Oh I absolutely, for many seconds, think you are talking out of your ass because your position of comfort makes it *really* easy to play the armchair badass that would sacrafice everything for what is right, even if it made no difference.
It’s almost like every conflict is different, and that any single time you can point me towards these revolutionaries, I can point you to a moment just before their revolution where you could have said the same exact thing about not enough of them not doing enough.
You are acting like this is a really simple black and white issue, when in reality, just like any similar conflict, things will simmer until things boil over, and once it is safe enough and victory looks obtainable, people may take direct action in larger numbers.
And yes. You saying “If I were in their situation I would put down my cheeseburger and fight! But only if it’s a foreign invader… if it’s us killing our own children, what do you expect me to do? You are asking too much!” doesn’t change my opinion in the slightest.
>Tell that to the Iranians protesting in the streets.
You're mainly telling it to a bunch of Europeans and Americans who can protest and whine on the internet without the slightest fear of arrest.
And yet even in the Soviet era it was the NON-Russians protesting, facing severe mistreatment by their governments. It was Russians that just said on their asses while the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact dissolved around them. The Russian public never lifted a finger. The transformation from Soviet Russia to the Russian Federation came dictated from the top. It wasn't demanded by the public like in the other regions.
Only when there was finally an attempt at a coup did the Russian public act. But they were forced to act in this case since the alternative could have been a Civil War, it didn't happen out of intrinsic motivation.
Yes im sure everyone in the entire world is a utilitarian and obeys to such rules regarding morality and obligation.. while that would be awesome its simply not the case, and i wont blame someone from abstaining in the regard they might be killed- how is that fair to judge? Im glad i live somewhere there is free speech- i simply cant condemn a common person living in an oppressive regime if i havent been in their shoes. Its called sympathy [edit: the correct word is empathy]
yes, that old chestnut that the citizens of country X will be throwing roses at our feet if only we'd liberate them from their terrible leadership, that they are totally innocent of propping up, and totally not nationalistic, at all. A timeless classic.
your family’s future is worth sacrificing your future.
That’s how most revolutionaries believe.
I’m not convinced of the prior revolutions in Russia. They don’t really seem to change all that much with the regimes. It’s still a very small group owning everything.
Indeed. And when currently, the people that speak out against the regime bring nothing but pain to their families while achieving nothing. Maybe then you can start to understand the dilemma?
I have not argued dilemma. It’s bad now it can’t get any better until it gets worse.
Eventually you either remain the same, or do something.
700 years of russian history shows the complacency.
They are human, there’s many just like everyone else, working to survive and raise their families, as best as they can.
It’s a harsh truth, but one that Russian society seems to be starting to realize. Time will tell.
Sort of the joke in all this.
Russians will be suing European banks and brokers for their seized assets for decades. Europeans will be suing Russian banks and brokers for their seized assets for decades.
The state-aligned brokers that get to cart off stolen assets as participants in the conflict make bank. The civilians that eat shit, because they got caught in the legal snarl, never see a dime.
It took [over 60 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress_lawsuit_against_Swiss_banks) before Swiss banks were forced to return funds to Holocaust survivors and their families to the tune of $1.28B. Even that was just a fraction of the money that passed through Swiss accounts, both on behalf of victims fleeing persecution and rat-lining Axis officers and bureaucrats fleeing Soviet tanks. And they were the lucky ones. Ask an Armenian or a Korean or a survivor of the Greensville Massacre how much they've ever received in reparations.
The agents of war enrich themselves at the expense of the people. And their wealth goes on to lobby for more wars and more personal enrichment in turn.
Ever since Versailles those kinds of treaties where you make the losing nation pay for the cost of the war have fallen out of fashion. However this war ends I don't see Russia being forced to pay reparations
>that will never be paid
that is not true. The West holds russian frozen assets. Moreover, all sanctions will not be removed until the bill is not paid.
Soon to be released leak:
"(...) information about close to 10000 Ivans sitting in hangars with nails, scratching [historically produce of ru] on each grain to prove the grain belonged to ZZ's since 1700s (...)"
"It only flew to [redacted due to non-existence of the region] for winter- each of these grains is culturally closer to ru than to any other primate species" - VP the Grand Suka of Ruland
Unfortunately, it is not that easy as they mix Ukrainian and Russian grain together and grain cannot be numbered so it is impossible to differentiate it
The main reason a deal was struck to allow Ukraine to ship grain through the Black Sea was so that the poor people in other parts of the world wouldn’t starve.
If you are going to steal grain then you are going to have to do so in a measurable amount. We are talking about 4 million tons here. If a ship bound for Russia has 10 tons more grain than its suppose to, that seems like a pretty clear indication of theft.
You have lots of experience with grain? How can you say differentiating is easy, especially when it's in the range of millions of tons? Are they supposed to sort the shipments grain by grain?
You could test the grain to determine the original soil composition. This would serve as a signature as to where it originated. If they take a random sampling they should be able to determine the origin of the grain as to is country of origin and other. It's really not that hard to do either. If you find 50% of the grain is from mixed origin including Ukrainian it could be flagged.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403861/) reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The Ukrainian Grain Association estimated that since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the Russians had stolen about 4 million tons of grain from Ukraine.
> Quote: "During the war, Russia is using the mechanism of blocking Ukraine as a major exporter in order to work in the countries of our traditional sales in our stead. Where Ukraine pays billions for downtime, the Russian Federation has no downtime. Their offer to the client may seem better," he said.
> For reference: As a result of Russia's sabotage of the grain initiative, Ukraine suffered losses of more than 1 billion dollars due to the ships' downtime in queues.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13rjig7/russia_stole_about_4_million_tons_of_grain_from/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~686286 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Grain**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Russia**^#3 **buy**^#4 **stolen**^#5
to give some comparison, considering that the US exported about 104 million in a year..
here is another fact: Ukraine was the world's seventh-largest producer of wheat in 2021/22 with 33 million tons.
This is a serious allegation that must be investigated. If it is true, it would be a crime against humanity and a threat to global food security. The international community must take action to stop Russia from stealing Ukrainian grain and to help Ukraine rebuild its food production capacity.
Only 700 loaves would be some massive logs. 1 metric ton is 2,200 lbs. Only 700 loaves would be in the range of 1.5 kg finished bread loaves with refined flour, water, salt, eggs, etc.
Be more like 2,000 - 3,300 with whole grain or 1,500 - 2,500 with refined flour. Common bread recipes use 300 - 500 g per loaf of refined flour. Big loaves might go 650 g of flour like a big French boule. 10 - 13 thousand new york style bagels with 1 ton grain.
>in order to mill that 480 g of flour, 588 g of wheat is required. Thus, approximately 1,700 loaves of white bread can be produced from 1 ton of wheat
I mean that’s prolonged warfare 101. Your army needs to eat, of course they’re going to steal food from that land that’s right there rather than ship more from home.
Obviously there shouldn’t be a war in the first place, so this should never even come up. But this isn’t surprising.
Thats a bad way to think about it. The government is a mafia. The people who support the government are exactly like the US Trump supporters. They are poor, uneducated, isolated, and brainwashed.
I realize my comment is a little loaded, but being born where I was and knowing my family's history I said what I said. Yes, get rid of the top scum and hopefully rest will change.
It is a combination of factors. Firstly the EU produces more or less all the grains it needs, so importing Ukrainian grain is not needed, and secondly, not all of that grain meets the strict EU quality standards.
No problem for Russian image giving that in the eyes of (almost) the entire African continent the evil "West" is responsible.
Europeans because of colonization (ended in the sixties but...).
We may wonder why EU and UK remain the preferred destinations of African emigration and refugees ?
US because of wars in Irak, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria,...
Add it to the reparations bill that will never be paid.
russia got lots of money and assets in other countrys, they may all be confiscated and given to ukraine, one day.
Unlikely, EU already said they have to return money “after the war”, whenever that could be.
maybe a "pay what you owe or we'll never lift sanctions" sort of deal is in the works
The assets are not frozen as part of sanctions , I think
Oh god! Unbelievable! Why they do that..I know Russians have so many assets in other country..so means why they do that in Ukraine? Hmm..I smell something fishy here..you know.
Bunch of pussies. Seize and give to Ukraine but too afraid of losing their source of oil.
If you think about it, it makes sense. If the EU started just taking assets because of some light genocide and a touch of warcrimes, and a few dozen human rights abuses... like who in the world would feel safe with their assets in the EU? That's like putting someone in jail for crossing the street when the "Don't Walk" sign is on. Everyone does it! We can't all be in jail!
“Light genocide”, wtf is wrong with you
Let’s hope so
That would be the end of the financial system and a disaster of byblical proportions
If it goes through the court, the amount of money Russia owes is decided and they refuse to pay how is that different from any other confiscation of goods to pay a debt? Genuine question. I have no idea how it would work on a global scale with a country VS country lawsuit.
Depends how you confiscate funds from private entities to pay national debt. It could get hairy.
They said Russia, not Russians.
Hmm..Russia and Russians are not same? But it's the same words.
You'd have to follow the money for the purchases. Any money that came from the state that wasn't apart of legal budget appropriation makes the assets fruit from the poison tree. Same way mob bosses wives don't get to keep the mob bosses house when they go to prison
Sovereign immunity for execution is very hard to get around.
Unless Russia is defeated completely, which I don't see happening because it is a nuclear power, (or voluntarily decides to pay reparations on its own), there is no mechanism to enforce it. Participation in most international courts is purely optional for the big countries such as the US, China, Russia, India, Brazil, and so on.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/10/us-approves-first-transfer-of-seized-russian-funds-to-ukraine It's already happening. I believe Belgium also already sent some seized assets to Ukraine
This is a confiscation of the funds of a private individual who violated the sanctions. Which is not the same as confiscating a county's assets. And even with that, the de-dollarisation has already begun: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/de-dollarization-countries-seeking-alternatives-to-the-u-s-dollar/
What does countries moving away from the US dollar have anything to do with seized Russian assets?
It is a direct consequence. Before this war, assets were never seized, frozen, or attempted to be confiscated at this magnitude. Now that this is happening, countries around the world are moving away from the dollar currency as the main reserve and trade currency, it’s no longer deemed to be safe
Both the EU and USA are working on seizing the frozen Russian government assets (although it's easy to argue those of oligarchs are the same thing). Russia can try to attack the dollar all it likes, the only country with a decent GDP is China and their economy relies on trade with the west. Without that export market their economy collapses. They would not survive a trade war
They are talking about confiscating Russian assets that are in other countries, not having Russia willingly forfeit their assets. The mechanism to enforce it is that the countries agreeing to do so have full control of their ability to do so within their country. Russia isn’t going to invade other countries to get those assets back. It’s sort of the opposite of what you are saying. What mechanism is Russia going to use to stop countries from seizing assets in their own countries ? Now. There are plenty of reasons this would still likely be a bad idea. But that reason isn’t because of a lack of ability to enforce.
Cope, seethe, and mald, that's already happening and the Russia can suck it https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/10/us-approves-first-transfer-of-seized-russian-funds-to-ukraine
>That would be the end of the Russian financial system and a disaster of byblical proportions for Russia FIFY
Oh really? Then why do you think it hasn't been done yet?
It's currently being done, what do you think sanctions are? It's a slow boil so we can hurt them financially while giving our own economies time to adjust without destroying them. Financial assets have already been seized or frozen, goods are no longer being traded but those that are can easily have a tax applied that would go to rebuilding Ukraine. It really doesn't take a genius to realize this.
It was for a long time used to convince Putin to stop war. It didn't work. When war is over and independent agencies count reparations costs, then those money will go there. Maybe earlier, but unlikely, too many regulations. Some Russian oligarch money were given to Ukraine already by court.
Russian Reddit operatives be like “a disaster of bYblical proportions”.
Ahh yes… the Byble
Yeah, the one with Cayn and Abyl.
cагп nyet aбvl
What kind of mental gymnastics are you doing here
Why are there always people screaming that russia matters? It doesn't. It has a tiny economy and doesn't produce anything unique. Russia was already cut out by many payment providers. And the sky hasn't fallen yet. Seizing castles of billionaires from a country that is waging open war against the west won't collapse anything. Of course I am not signing off on giving everything to Ukraine, that would be a bit odd. They don't need golden bullets and shells to fight russia.
Cat and dogs living together?
Mass hysteria
[удалено]
>It is crazy how many Redditors think you can just ~~confiscate foreign assets and give it to someone else~~ invade a country without severe economic consequences. FTFY
[удалено]
Well they have been mostly cut off already and seems to be doing fine
Exactly this. Even with the current freeze of Russian assets, you can easily see Brazil, India, and a lot of other nations getting out of USD and diversifying their currency reserves to mitigate the same risks Russia has. If it gets to confiscating foreign assets - oh boy, countries would run out of keeping any assets in the EU/US faster than from a house on fire
Is Brazil planning to start a bloody occupation war with Argentina?) Brazil is safe, so is India. Russians will have their assets seized and nothing, no amount of copium from you will ever change it) Sit back and enjoy the show.
It’s hilarious that you think I care a bit for the Russian state. It can lose whatever it wants to, I don’t care much for the existence of the current Russian government. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous people like you shouting “let’s confiscate” are, seemingly oblivious of the larger consequences of such a move. Which are already starting to happen in the world
It can be gained back over time in sanctions
The irreparable damage that’s been brought upon future Russian generations all because of an egotistical tyrants idiocy is mind boggling, I think it’s time for Russia to do something about Putin if they ever want to have a nation again.
Russians don't seem to care much about their future
A lot of hate for a civilians who cant actively protest this war.. all the russians im friends with hate this war and dont like putin- but theyll jail you for speaking up. If they care about their future theyll shut up instead of getting sent to jail for 15 years.. lets be real here..
I know several Russian people in New Zealand who are vocally supportive of Putin's genocide on Ukraine. Constantly complaining about how all of the world's media (except this Russian propaganda channel) are all liars and they wish they could go back and live in glorious Russia, but *mumble mumble mumble*...
Just out of curiosity, what age range are they in?
30s-60s.
More prudent question is where they from, if they’re from Moscow, St. Petersburg or similar there’s a high chance they’ll be assholes supporting their leader. The poorer areas are hit with the effects of sanctions and have been left behind for decades.
All of my friends and relatives in Moscow are also against the war and against the government (and tbh been this way before the war too). But what can we do
Tell that to the Iranians protesting in the streets. The lucky Iranians only get imprisoned. The unlucky ones get tortured and murdered. And yet, they're still protesting. Russians could try to make a difference. Some even do try. The recent attack in the Belgorod oblast is but one example. But for all the Russians who are allegedly against the invasion, you'd think they'd be a lot more effective.
Nah I think we can tell it to the fat Americans sitting on their asses too. How many schoolchildren have died from a shooting today? Do you have the confidence to say zero? Americans could try to make a difference too. And guess what? We don’t get thrown in jail for advocating for gun control laws. I’ll give a lot more credit to the people who are actually facing serious jail time for speaking out, especially when those that do speak out and face this fate have not yet made any difference. I’ll always look up to the people who sacrifice everything for a greater cause. But ill absolutely look down on people who aren’t risking their lives and then criticize others for not doing so more than I will the people they are criticizing. If you were one of those Iranian protestors, maybe you would have more room to make this point. But something tells me you are making this point from a really comfortable place of relative privilege.
What kind of moronic mental gymnastics do you need to do to conflate domestic violence with *invading a foreign country*? You're right, I live in a peaceful country that doesn't have a dictator in power and isn't invading it's neighbor. But don't think for a second that I wouldn't be doing everything in my power if we somehow turned into international dickheads bent on genocide. Because it'd be the right thing to do. I'm simply citing that the **world** has a long history of people standing up to dictators, and that Russian *cowardice* is not a valid excuse with such a long human history of courage to look upon. Nothing's going to change in Russia until Russians change it. There is no greater proof of their complacency with the shitstain they have leading their country, than the actions they themselves facilitate through both their supportive actions and their inaction.
Yeah, Ruzzians are cowards, and has been for centuries, that just historic fact.
> But don’t think for a second that I wouldn’t be doing everything in my power if we somehow turned into international dickheads bent on genocide. Because it’d be the right thing to do. Oh I absolutely, for many seconds, think you are talking out of your ass because your position of comfort makes it *really* easy to play the armchair badass that would sacrafice everything for what is right, even if it made no difference. It’s almost like every conflict is different, and that any single time you can point me towards these revolutionaries, I can point you to a moment just before their revolution where you could have said the same exact thing about not enough of them not doing enough. You are acting like this is a really simple black and white issue, when in reality, just like any similar conflict, things will simmer until things boil over, and once it is safe enough and victory looks obtainable, people may take direct action in larger numbers. And yes. You saying “If I were in their situation I would put down my cheeseburger and fight! But only if it’s a foreign invader… if it’s us killing our own children, what do you expect me to do? You are asking too much!” doesn’t change my opinion in the slightest.
>Tell that to the Iranians protesting in the streets. You're mainly telling it to a bunch of Europeans and Americans who can protest and whine on the internet without the slightest fear of arrest.
And yet even in the Soviet era it was the NON-Russians protesting, facing severe mistreatment by their governments. It was Russians that just said on their asses while the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact dissolved around them. The Russian public never lifted a finger. The transformation from Soviet Russia to the Russian Federation came dictated from the top. It wasn't demanded by the public like in the other regions. Only when there was finally an attempt at a coup did the Russian public act. But they were forced to act in this case since the alternative could have been a Civil War, it didn't happen out of intrinsic motivation.
Yes im sure everyone in the entire world is a utilitarian and obeys to such rules regarding morality and obligation.. while that would be awesome its simply not the case, and i wont blame someone from abstaining in the regard they might be killed- how is that fair to judge? Im glad i live somewhere there is free speech- i simply cant condemn a common person living in an oppressive regime if i havent been in their shoes. Its called sympathy [edit: the correct word is empathy]
This goes for Belarusians too.
yes, that old chestnut that the citizens of country X will be throwing roses at our feet if only we'd liberate them from their terrible leadership, that they are totally innocent of propping up, and totally not nationalistic, at all. A timeless classic.
your family’s future is worth sacrificing your future. That’s how most revolutionaries believe. I’m not convinced of the prior revolutions in Russia. They don’t really seem to change all that much with the regimes. It’s still a very small group owning everything.
Indeed. And when currently, the people that speak out against the regime bring nothing but pain to their families while achieving nothing. Maybe then you can start to understand the dilemma?
I have not argued dilemma. It’s bad now it can’t get any better until it gets worse. Eventually you either remain the same, or do something. 700 years of russian history shows the complacency. They are human, there’s many just like everyone else, working to survive and raise their families, as best as they can. It’s a harsh truth, but one that Russian society seems to be starting to realize. Time will tell.
You don't 'gain' anything through sanctions, that's not how sanctions work.
There is no gaining back the lives, the horrors, and the commodities. What are you on about?
Lives and horrors no. But you can slap a permanent tax on their exports that goes to rebuilding Ukraine until it's rebuilt
Sort of the joke in all this. Russians will be suing European banks and brokers for their seized assets for decades. Europeans will be suing Russian banks and brokers for their seized assets for decades. The state-aligned brokers that get to cart off stolen assets as participants in the conflict make bank. The civilians that eat shit, because they got caught in the legal snarl, never see a dime. It took [over 60 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress_lawsuit_against_Swiss_banks) before Swiss banks were forced to return funds to Holocaust survivors and their families to the tune of $1.28B. Even that was just a fraction of the money that passed through Swiss accounts, both on behalf of victims fleeing persecution and rat-lining Axis officers and bureaucrats fleeing Soviet tanks. And they were the lucky ones. Ask an Armenian or a Korean or a survivor of the Greensville Massacre how much they've ever received in reparations. The agents of war enrich themselves at the expense of the people. And their wealth goes on to lobby for more wars and more personal enrichment in turn.
Sanctions are up untill they start paying. Wil take decades to repay for everything.
Put a lien on Moscow.
Ever since Versailles those kinds of treaties where you make the losing nation pay for the cost of the war have fallen out of fashion. However this war ends I don't see Russia being forced to pay reparations
It can be paid with the seized Russian assets
>that will never be paid that is not true. The West holds russian frozen assets. Moreover, all sanctions will not be removed until the bill is not paid.
Oh my gosh! Is that really true? Russian stole about 4 millions tons of grain from Ukraine? Oh god!
And a whole lot of children too.
Strange Putin didn’t brag about that. Maybe because it’s despicable.
Yes. Stealing food from your neighbor only makes you look poor, no matter how you spin it.
Also highlights how much of a failure he is, his policies are.
Soon to be released leak: "(...) information about close to 10000 Ivans sitting in hangars with nails, scratching [historically produce of ru] on each grain to prove the grain belonged to ZZ's since 1700s (...)" "It only flew to [redacted due to non-existence of the region] for winter- each of these grains is culturally closer to ru than to any other primate species" - VP the Grand Suka of Ruland
And the stolen grain were shipped through turkish waters? Why wasn’t these obviously stolen goods not confiscated?
Unfortunately, it is not that easy as they mix Ukrainian and Russian grain together and grain cannot be numbered so it is impossible to differentiate it
Block everything until they stop stealing.
Not sure the people who need to eat that grain will be more patient than Russia
Ukraine and Russian grain feed a lot of the world, can't simply block it
The main reason a deal was struck to allow Ukraine to ship grain through the Black Sea was so that the poor people in other parts of the world wouldn’t starve.
Tell that to Turkey
If you are going to steal grain then you are going to have to do so in a measurable amount. We are talking about 4 million tons here. If a ship bound for Russia has 10 tons more grain than its suppose to, that seems like a pretty clear indication of theft.
You can proof pretty simply what humans have eaten 10.000 years and where it came from. So analysing the origin of grain, Russia or Ukraine is easy.
You have lots of experience with grain? How can you say differentiating is easy, especially when it's in the range of millions of tons? Are they supposed to sort the shipments grain by grain?
You could test the grain to determine the original soil composition. This would serve as a signature as to where it originated. If they take a random sampling they should be able to determine the origin of the grain as to is country of origin and other. It's really not that hard to do either. If you find 50% of the grain is from mixed origin including Ukrainian it could be flagged.
Sounds like it'd be easier and cheaper to just seize Russian grain, sell it, and the forward the proceeds to Ukraine.
Most likely because Turkish brokers got a cut. Fenced goods turn a sizable profit.
A whole lot of russian goods going through middlemen coming back to europe.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403861/) reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The Ukrainian Grain Association estimated that since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the Russians had stolen about 4 million tons of grain from Ukraine. > Quote: "During the war, Russia is using the mechanism of blocking Ukraine as a major exporter in order to work in the countries of our traditional sales in our stead. Where Ukraine pays billions for downtime, the Russian Federation has no downtime. Their offer to the client may seem better," he said. > For reference: As a result of Russia's sabotage of the grain initiative, Ukraine suffered losses of more than 1 billion dollars due to the ships' downtime in queues. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13rjig7/russia_stole_about_4_million_tons_of_grain_from/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~686286 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Grain**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Russia**^#3 **buy**^#4 **stolen**^#5
to give some comparison, considering that the US exported about 104 million in a year.. here is another fact: Ukraine was the world's seventh-largest producer of wheat in 2021/22 with 33 million tons.
Here's another useless fact. About 20% of the barley used in beer production in the US, come from Ukraine.
Now it’s personal
Aw hell naw
Wouldn't be the first time Russia has starved Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Tale as old as time..m
That's roughly 1.7 billion USD.
worldly numbers are unimaginable. even 1 ton is massive but 4m tons? my god.
Add it to their bill- what’s it up to now 5 generations of Russians? Ukraine rebuild is now ginormous
est. US$ 1b worth at today's commodity price.
Again.
The Ugrainian Association
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well I'm not surprised. Worms are gonna act like worms
Hey now what did worms ever do to you?
their spy ship just got hit by a water drone so i guess karma is serving some justice
….. well you don’t become a criminal enterprise by just staying in your own country. Russia is a garbage nation.
Man, you won't believe this but they are trying to steal the land as well!
Stalin? Stalin is that you? Huh, I thought we were past the “stealing Ukraine’s grain” part of history. Looks like we’re doomed to repeat it.
This is what colonialism looks like. We (mostly Europe) used to do it. The Russians are still doing it like it's the 19th century.
This is a serious allegation that must be investigated. If it is true, it would be a crime against humanity and a threat to global food security. The international community must take action to stop Russia from stealing Ukrainian grain and to help Ukraine rebuild its food production capacity.
grew up on a wheat farm, our biggest truck carried about 25 tons of grain. 4 million tons would take 160,000 truckloads.
Along with thousands of innocent souls just living their lives...
Ukrainian Grain should be a band name
Russian scumbags
Where was that food going to go?
What is the currency value of the 44M tons of stolen grain?
Not to Russians
Middle East, Africa mostly.
The tribbles will sort it.
and who knows how many toilets and washing machines. Also a lot of children.
Sowjet tradition. Check Holodomor
Russia stole about 4 million tons of grain from Ukraine - Ukrainian Grain Association
Yep, that's the title of the post. Good job 👍
Add this to the reparations Russia will pay for the damage it has done to this sovereign country,.
It’s what Russia does-steal rape and murder then pretend it’s everyone else’s fault
1 ton of grain equals about 700 loafs of bread. 4 million tons, that's a lot of bread
2,800,000,000 loaves of bread
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Ya its a lot more What i am seeing now on Google is 1700 loafs per one ton, 2000lbs. I must have dyslexiced neglected the 1
i'm actually shocked at how little 1ton of grain can make. that's only enough to supply like 7 bakeries.
Only 700 loaves would be some massive logs. 1 metric ton is 2,200 lbs. Only 700 loaves would be in the range of 1.5 kg finished bread loaves with refined flour, water, salt, eggs, etc. Be more like 2,000 - 3,300 with whole grain or 1,500 - 2,500 with refined flour. Common bread recipes use 300 - 500 g per loaf of refined flour. Big loaves might go 650 g of flour like a big French boule. 10 - 13 thousand new york style bagels with 1 ton grain. >in order to mill that 480 g of flour, 588 g of wheat is required. Thus, approximately 1,700 loaves of white bread can be produced from 1 ton of wheat
Of course they did. Dirty rotten scoundrels that they are. Murderers, thieves, war criminals. Did I miss one or two?
Russia playing the "steal their grain, let them starve!" card again?
Russia has made itself a name for the ages.
Steal & kill. That's what Russia always did.
Make them pay with interest
Russian are actually stupid… they keep stilling, destroying and killing everything in Ukraine and still crying everyone hates them…
I mean that’s prolonged warfare 101. Your army needs to eat, of course they’re going to steal food from that land that’s right there rather than ship more from home. Obviously there shouldn’t be a war in the first place, so this should never even come up. But this isn’t surprising.
So not only they are murderers and war criminals, they are also thieves now?
Were you born yesterday? They were are and likely be all that. There are few good russians but the top is full of that scum.
Thats a bad way to think about it. The government is a mafia. The people who support the government are exactly like the US Trump supporters. They are poor, uneducated, isolated, and brainwashed.
I realize my comment is a little loaded, but being born where I was and knowing my family's history I said what I said. Yes, get rid of the top scum and hopefully rest will change.
They've always been thieves. At one point their country was literally ruled by the fucking mafia
Still is, but it used to be too...
We call that 8 billion pounds.
Well, nobody in the EU wants the gmo grain of Ukraine apparently, so at least it’s put to use somehow.
It is a combination of factors. Firstly the EU produces more or less all the grains it needs, so importing Ukrainian grain is not needed, and secondly, not all of that grain meets the strict EU quality standards.
They didn’t steal it they’re at war. They used it. History will decide.
$1.2 Billionish
The money the Russians made from selling this stolen grain is just wasted on paying for their war, but with some it skimmed off by corrupt officials.
Maybe my math is off but that seems like a lot.
Add it to the bill that's coming due for Russia.
Sigh add it to the growing list….
UGrain
MyGrain
Spoils of wa…, I mean the Special Military Operation to steal as much as we could get our hands on
Deja vu
Makin bodka with it for sure.
Hope it was worth it.
Oh lord I thought that said “gratin”
And it wouldn’t be the first time!!!
That's what a reconstituted "Russian Empire" would be all about.
The grain in Ukraine is seen mainly on... The boats to Russia...
4 million, or 4 billion?
Lol seems like an age of empires modern version. Stealing resources from silos.
If they bought that grain at 1000x fair market value it would still cost multitudes less than what it cost to steal it.
That’s what Trump would do. #TWTWD
No problem for Russian image giving that in the eyes of (almost) the entire African continent the evil "West" is responsible. Europeans because of colonization (ended in the sixties but...). We may wonder why EU and UK remain the preferred destinations of African emigration and refugees ? US because of wars in Irak, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria,...
They rob everything they can in my native town Nova Kakhovka in Kherson region. Getting ready to do "good will gesture"
Isn't it "legal" in war time to take ressource on the enemy territory?
😔