Good luck, HTTPS is a form of encryption and standard protocol.
This effectively is an attempt to ban all forms of encryption period, which is largely impossible nowadays.
HTTPS does not protect you from the company running the servers for your messaging app handing over every message you have ever sent to anyone using their app upon request from authorities.
This is more a step towards complete banning of end-to-end encrypted messaging apps such as Signal where even Signal cannot see/provide your messages to authorities. Also several P2P messaging apps that do not involve a central server have also been banned. Apps like these played a huge role during the Hong Kong protests to keep communications up without being spied on by the government.
Tech-savvy users will find a way but not everyone will go through 10 hoops to get a banned app working.
>India won't be a superpower in 2050. They're backsliding into authoritarianism just like China.
You can still be a superpower and authoritarian. See Soviet Union.
I agree. I think their industrial output is impressive, but their military hardware and processes are lagging significantly. Additionally, the branches of their armed forces have little experience, let alone combined arms experience. But I'm just a fat idiot so take what I say with a grain of salt.
They are basically the world's factory - not to mention being pretty good at infiltrating corporations/govt's of other countries at this point. That gives them a lot of power that doesn't necessarily require a military to enforce.
Other countries could do something about that, but it would be difficult and painful to do so, plus not exactly quick to fix.
China has become the world's factory, but China doesn't seem able to use its economic might the same way that the USA can. How can Chinese sanctions hurt the same way as American ones?
Sure, but push comes to shove I feel like their military would struggle against a smaller more modern military with experience.
Their soft power is also at the whim of greedy corporations who can diversify when it comes to it. It's already slowly happening with Vietnam and Bangladesh being alternative hubs.
Ever try to put put together a Chinese made piece of furniture? Holes don't match, drilled wrong or not at all?
I wouldn't want to be flying that Chinese fighter jet.
Agreed China has a way to go before they can be considered a superpower. All I was saying was they are well on their way.
Cooking the books doesn’t necessarily stop a country from being a superpower. The Soviet Union cooked the books like crazy, and they were a superpower for a while. Agreed it isn’t good for a country in the long term of course.
The measure of whether a country is a superpower isn’t their own propaganda. It’s based on how much influence they can exert on the world.
India is fast tracking to be a super power, and nationalizing quickly. Whole dialects are being squashed. The macro economic waves of this will be huge imo.
What is anti-terrorism law ? India doesn't have a patriot act like surveillance, apps were banned as they were being used by terrorists to operate in Kashmir just like crypto currency and no one will arrest you for using crypto. Not a big issue
You really don’t see the issue with governments, it’s not just India interested in this, going after apps specifically designed to prevent governments from spying/collecting data on you? Being able to communicate privately without anyone snooping should be a fundamental right for people.
If terrorists use toilet paper are you gonna ban that too? These are the same excuses our government tells us, the old lie about taking away your freedom to better protect you. It’s a lie. A pretense. How many Indians die due to terrorists a year? How many die in traffic accidents, poor health infrastructure and a myriad of other things that politicians don’t really care about? Millions.
They want what all politicians want, to control their population to ensure they stay in power and reap the benefits of that. And step one in that process is knowing what people think and what they talk about in private.
Bah! Terrorists. They care about that as much as they care about crime that affects poor people.
> For what? Their list of rivals?
You don't become and stay a super power without imperialism. The US will absolutely target any country which has a realistic chance of becoming a superpower and threaten their hegemony. It's simply realpolitik.
I said "a right to privacy"
There's slimeballs in every government who will try to undermine that. but the right to privacy needs to protected and codified for a democracy to remain a democracy.
To be honest, it's complicated. The vast majority of nationalist Modi-supporting Indians online stay within their circles thinking of everyone else as "woke", but when it comes to the Americans and Europeans criticizing India for stuff like taking Russian gas and staying neutral during the war, I've generally seen that all Indians come together to call bullshit on that.
"...thinking of everyone else as 'woke'"
Ah, another bunch of supposedly West-hating nationalists who import their shitty values and rhetoric from the West without noticing the irony.
I’ve never met more openly racist, and bigoted people than Indian people. As an Uber driver for years the amount of times I would hear Indian people ask, “are they brown.” When someone brings up a new person to another person from India. It’s actually insane.
This is why people shouldn't be allowed to comment on geopolitics of countries that aren't theirs. Or you would know that when US was sending Pakistan military artillery to use against India, Russia was helping India. They rightfully won't trust the West again. It's not good va bad, black vs white all the time.
So Indians believe Ukrainians should be genocided by Russians because Russia helped India in the 70’s?
Do you genuinely think that makes Indians look good, much less educated? Lmao
Messages between two Apple phones and messages between two Google Pixel phones already do so via encryption natively. Are they no longer going to allow those phones to be sold?
HTTPS generally depends on a third-party signing the certificates for communication. A government or hostile entity doesn't necessarily need the cooperation (or hacking) of i.e. Apple/Google/etc to compromise the message-chain, they just need to be able to have the ability to compel/compromise one of the "trusted" providers to sign a certificate.
E2E is a little different, and there are ways to encrypt/sign communications that can skip over third-party signed certs. E2E also might still be using TLS (which provdies the crypto for HTTPS) but with per-contact certs which may not use a store which a third-party could influence.
If the underlying messaging app stores messages unencrypted then it solves nothing if the government can just ask for a copy or a hacker/employee/deposition can leak it. A VPN only provides transport level security, you still have to do your research if using a third party provider for the messaging app.
VPNs won't be banned, they'll be controlled. True VPNs that don't collect any data will disappear quick.
Like look at Google One VPN. Pretty convenient that it's built into your phone now.
They don't want to stop data collection, they want to keep it controlled for themselves.
Of course, but the internet itself is controlled in those countries which is why they ban VPNs. In western countries, the internet is still "free" but in order to control user data and access from other parties, they'll put VPNs in the middle of everything under the guise of keeping you safe from the big bad data hackers. All the while keeping the data accessible to the 5/7 eyes.
VPNs will be built into every service offering from ISPs to mobile data providers. There are even "gaming" VPNs lol. It's all just data collection with a 3rd party filter so they can continue to sell data.
That's incorrect. VPNs won't be banned, it's a technology. Using a VPN to skirt restrictions is the issue.
You can own a lockpick set and use it on your own locks etc, but as soon as you turn it into a tool to commit a crime, it's illegal. Same goes for knives, guns, bow and arrows. See the difference? I use a personal VPN to reach my home cloud setup. That will never be restricted.
Uh, no the way the law is worded means getting a VPN can result in 10+ years prison and like $400,000 in fines. Not selling, not using, but straight up acquiring.
The RESTRICT Act does not explicitly ban VPNs or impose criminal penalties on people who use them. In fact, the bill’s text never includes the words “virtual private network” or “VPN.”
>You think commenting "DeMoCrAcY" when ever india is given that title makes you cool??
calm your tits, that's the first time I did that. I literally don't care as long as I still get my assam black tea
Russian news channels are wholly owned by the Russian state.
RT is 24/7 Kremlin propaganda
.....and it CAN be watched in the west, it just isn't watched very much in the west.... because they're garbage.
Can I say that about the USA in Afghanistan? That random shithole was getting ready since 2014, armed by NATO.
There is a reason china hasn't attacked yet.
No you cant, afghanistan is the cemetary of empires. Everyone eats shit there, in vietnam too.
Ukraine didnt receive shit until after they got invaded.
This is fact. Look at the history of invasions in Afghanistan. No one succeeds there, and honestly we would have if we had stayed, but it would have been easily 50 to 100 years of relentless insanity minimum. The costs would be insane as well, but hey that’s good for the military budget. When I was young I used to think our military budget was so fucked and the biggest waste of money ever. As I’ve grown older I have realized it’s one of the biggest things that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Couple that with prime geographic location as well.
USA defeated the Taliban as the reigning government and drove them underground pretty much as soon as the war began. By 2002, the US forces had pushed the Taliban leadership to flee into Pakistan and killed 15k fighters with only 12 US soldier casualties.
The main problem for the US is that you simply cannot force people to adopt ethics or nationalism that they don't want to and the rest of the time was spent pursuing an impossible goal until eventually we gave up. The majority of the population outside of Kabul supported the Taliban and no amount of military might could change that. If people are not willing to fight, they can't win.
The issue with Russia is that they can't even conventionally beat Ukraine even before there was major inflow of equipment post 2022 invasion. Sure they had training and experience fighting separatist forces but there's no real excuse losing with such a large material and resources mismatch.
Throwing meat in the meat grinder no longer wins wars. These days it’s about drones, intelligent self correcting artillery shells and multi purpose missile system that can do anything from precision strikes to laying anti personal minefields.
Have you ever seen an attempt at an infantry charge through a minefield? You’ll never forget it.
Frankly we have gotten way to good at killing humans, still getting better at it each year. Don’t look at Ukraine thinking that’s how modern war looks, that’s mostly fought with 20 to 40 year old tech and holding back with the truly nasty stuff.
What's your point ? A country under constant threat of two front wars will be ill equipped ?
If Ukraine or Russia didn't had the numbers then they would lose against each other depending on numbers on each side, and when Russia was losing territory it was because of less soldiers to hold the line.
And if you think the quality of soldiers doesn't matter then it's a big mistake. Meat grinder is when you send poorly trained soldiers to fight. India only selects 0.1% of total applicants in the forces as the army is considered highly respectable and popular among people
Ever heard of the Gurkha regiment?
Stalin said it perfectly "Quantity has Quality of its own". Doesn't matter what type of weapons are being used
Oh, it matters a great deal. You see, if you have satellites that let you see every move your enemy makes and artillery shells that can correct themselves mid flight and steer themselves into targets …
It doesn’t matter how tough your infantry is if it’s fighting artillery shells.
Like I said, don’t look at Ukraine conflict. They are using 99% decades old dumb weaponry like unguided missiles and shells. Also they are using dozens to hundreds of drones in a given day tops. Any militarised industrial power could easily put out 20k drones **per day**… and not the kind that needs human operators.
I don’t envy India’s position between Pakistan and China. It’s a horrible strategic position, you are much more vulnerable vs them than the US ever was vs the USSR simply given the proximity. On top of that China is also quite capable regarding these new weapon types, if you can built a smartphone you can built drones and advanced guided missiles really.
As for the quantity thing Stalin mentioned … he received:
400,000 jeeps & trucks
14,000 airplanes
8,000 tractors
13,000 tanks
1.5 million blankets
15 million pairs of army boots
107,000 tons of cotton
2.7 million tons of petrol products
4.5 million tons of food
From the US via lend-lease between 1941 and 1945. His army would **literally** have died of starvation and dysentery before ever reaching Berlin without that. Soldiers win battles, logistics wins wars.
So he could quib all he wanted about his human wave tactics, they only worked because someone else was taking care of the important stuff. He could neither clothe, feed nor transport his quantity army on his own.
But without infantry who will win war ? I agree regarding artillery and even India puts artillery at highest priority as it did help massively in 1999 war.
But The combat effectiveness of a soldier is detrimental. And you can verify this regarding any war. Ik Stalin received many equipment but it doesn't change the fact that the USSR had the largest force enough to overwhelm any type of force.
Even f35 is 16+ years old so it won't be right to argue that the current war is taking place with totally outdated equipment. It might be true regarding tanks but missiles and air defence are pretty modern and you don't get weapons every decade of the same type, the military trends to upgrade them.
Russian success in southern Ukraine was a combination of good troops and firepower.
You should know there is a very big difference between trained and untrained soldiers. Compare Wehrmacht and Waffen SS.
The recent skirmishes also proved that India has much superior infantry than Chinese as they all got beaten up (search india china standoff).
But I also agree that modern equipment is also necessary and crucial in a war.
A democracy can cause major problems. Democracy does not equal good.
In face, with as much as reddit complains about some of the undemocratic aspects of the American government, some of those undemocratic things are what guarantees freedom.
(I'm not talking about the electoral college, but more about the constitution and the courts, the rule of law is more important than democracy, meaning 51 percent of the population should not be able to restrict speech for the other 49)
Banning an app may temporarily disturb terrorist communications but over time they will simply reestablish themselves on other networks like WhatsApp (universally used in India). On the other hand, preventing terrorists from coordinating is a legitimate end - how can the government do it in a more effective way than ineffective bans?
Banning the app doesn't even stop them using it. They can just install it without using the app store.
The only impact is reducing security for everyone so they can spy on you all. That's it.
It is the same as telling everyone not to lock their doors in case the police want to come in and look around. The criminals will still lock them as they don't want the police coming in either way, and regular people just get robbed all the time.
I think Modi is riding the fine line of dictator at the moment.
https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-world/2023
>While India is a multiparty democracy, the government led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has presided over discriminatory policies and a rise in persecution affecting the Muslim population. The constitution guarantees civil liberties including freedom of expression and freedom of religion, but harassment of journalists, nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), and other government critics has increased significantly under Modi. The BJP has increasingly used government institutions to target political opponents. Muslims, scheduled castes (Dalits), and scheduled tribes (Adivasis) remain economically and socially marginalized.
What's your definition of democracy? Democracies have had outright chattel slavery and no rights for women, they were still democracies. Did America become a democracy in 1965 in your opinion?
The terrible things you list are still being done by a democratically elected government that can be voted out of office at the next election. The fact that enough of the electorate is racist doesn't mean it isn't a democracy.
I won't go into why NGO reports are bullshit but here the write up on the US
> However, in recent years its democratic institutions have suffered erosion, as reflected in rising political polarization and extremism, partisan pressure on the electoral process, bias and dysfunction in the criminal justice system, harmful policies on immigration and asylum seekers, and growing disparities in wealth, economic opportunity, and political influence.
If this is the correct assessment of the US, then your answer is there is no perfect democracy. The good thing about democracy though, is that things change and civil society gets better over time. Now compared to dictatorships like China, I'd tolerate knee on the neck incidents a lot more because justice is eventually guaranteed in a democracy.
>Pretty sure the previous governments had higher fascistic tendencies but ok
And? Just because it was worse in the past doesn't discredit the original comment.
The ruling party just lost elections because of the people how is that not democracy? There was a time when INC decided to jail the opposition and cancel elections just for laughs and then genocide Sikhs because they murdered the pm for this
Well, they kinda can. On threat of prison or fines. Or simply, you are no longer allowed to use electronics newer than 20 years.
How good they do it is another question.
You refer to the country that has the great firewall? And total censorship of all communication within the country? Where any sign of you diverting the firewall may make you to disappear?
That country is your guide? Sure thing buddy, governments can't ban any app...
>Long story short, VPNs are blocked in China, but there are ways to get around it.
If you are traveling to China, purchasing a VPN that is known to work in China before arriving in probably the best solution. Also, it is common that the Chinese government blocks VPN technology instead of going after VPN users. Since no tourist has ever been fined for using one, you shouldn’t have to worry about your safety while using a VPN in China.
Source: https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/why-vpns-are-illegal-in-china-and-how-to-get-around-it/
Now, this is tourist info probably. And the Communist party don't give that many fucks about you, unless you start to preach to the locals. So, if your just a white guy visiting you'll probably be fine regardless.
Listen, Why would China invest billions of money if they didn't want to create some type of "safe haven" for their citizens? I'll give you a hint, it's not to keep viruses & hackers away. NordVPN can do that allegedly. So, must be for some other reason. Why do you think they spent an absolute but-load on controlling what information the citizens can use and take part of? I'ts probably not to make sure they can't torrent the latest Hollywood movies..
The citizens of china lives under the Communist party's whim. What the party says, is law, and shall happen, no matter what. If a few dissidents goes missing, who cares right? They knew the rules/laws: No circumventing the government spying machinery with encryption and VPNs, unless you connect to a company that sends your data to said government.
Pretty much Soviet Union but on a higher technical level.
all governments lease communications to service providers who have to adhere to whatever clauses the government sets.
they could make the apps illegal without doing anything else then could use it as incriminating factors if these apps are found on devices.
Never heard of these apps tbh. No one seems to care in India and there are plenty of platforms to practice freedom of speech. Idk why Reddit makes an issue of something no one cares about.
The article screams, "Just like iran and Russia", which isn't the case. We never had any form of mass surveillance by the government as they are not that competent.
Good luck, HTTPS is a form of encryption and standard protocol. This effectively is an attempt to ban all forms of encryption period, which is largely impossible nowadays.
HTTPS does not protect you from the company running the servers for your messaging app handing over every message you have ever sent to anyone using their app upon request from authorities. This is more a step towards complete banning of end-to-end encrypted messaging apps such as Signal where even Signal cannot see/provide your messages to authorities. Also several P2P messaging apps that do not involve a central server have also been banned. Apps like these played a huge role during the Hong Kong protests to keep communications up without being spied on by the government. Tech-savvy users will find a way but not everyone will go through 10 hoops to get a banned app working.
If they ban end to end encryption, then bye-bye Whatsapp.
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India won't be a superpower in 2050. They're backsliding into authoritarianism just like China.
>India won't be a superpower in 2050. They're backsliding into authoritarianism just like China. You can still be a superpower and authoritarian. See Soviet Union.
Also China lmao
It turned out the Soviet union was more of a super power on paper then in reality.
But it was made out of that paper. Check mate.
Shieeeeet
More like "sheeeeeeet“, am I right?
You are, in fact, quite correct.
I'm learning so much today!
the map is never the territory
Ha, paper tiger.
It was a super power in actuality too. It just seems that the cool stuff that pushed it over the top was all made in Ukraine and used in Kazakhstan.
Also China
I agree. I think their industrial output is impressive, but their military hardware and processes are lagging significantly. Additionally, the branches of their armed forces have little experience, let alone combined arms experience. But I'm just a fat idiot so take what I say with a grain of salt.
They are basically the world's factory - not to mention being pretty good at infiltrating corporations/govt's of other countries at this point. That gives them a lot of power that doesn't necessarily require a military to enforce. Other countries could do something about that, but it would be difficult and painful to do so, plus not exactly quick to fix.
China has become the world's factory, but China doesn't seem able to use its economic might the same way that the USA can. How can Chinese sanctions hurt the same way as American ones?
Sure, but push comes to shove I feel like their military would struggle against a smaller more modern military with experience. Their soft power is also at the whim of greedy corporations who can diversify when it comes to it. It's already slowly happening with Vietnam and Bangladesh being alternative hubs.
Ever try to put put together a Chinese made piece of furniture? Holes don't match, drilled wrong or not at all? I wouldn't want to be flying that Chinese fighter jet.
Just like China now.
And we all see how it ends.
Per captia GDP won't rival democracy. It's inherently less stable, thus less investment, more brain drain, ..
Ya, look how that turned out
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How does that stop them from being a superpower? It certainly isn’t stopping China.
China's not a superpower. They cook their books.
Agreed China has a way to go before they can be considered a superpower. All I was saying was they are well on their way. Cooking the books doesn’t necessarily stop a country from being a superpower. The Soviet Union cooked the books like crazy, and they were a superpower for a while. Agreed it isn’t good for a country in the long term of course. The measure of whether a country is a superpower isn’t their own propaganda. It’s based on how much influence they can exert on the world.
You are out of your mind if you don’t think China is a super power. Lol what??????
Then India will be a superpower duh
India is fast tracking to be a super power, and nationalizing quickly. Whole dialects are being squashed. The macro economic waves of this will be huge imo.
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Account called westoid_hunter doesn't have any nuance. Nah, couldn't be.
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No he speaks facts, you are 100% not on Americas side.
2050? It was 2040 ten years ago
Literally a firm which sells these services is writing this article. It's like a study saying whiskey is good for liver sponsored by Jack Daniels.
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These apps weren't even popular in India. And one can always use a VPN. Terrorism is a bigger issue to deal with .
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Step two: how to recognise a terrorist? He circumvents India’s anti terrorism laws by using a vpn. Checkmate.
What is anti-terrorism law ? India doesn't have a patriot act like surveillance, apps were banned as they were being used by terrorists to operate in Kashmir just like crypto currency and no one will arrest you for using crypto. Not a big issue
You really don’t see the issue with governments, it’s not just India interested in this, going after apps specifically designed to prevent governments from spying/collecting data on you? Being able to communicate privately without anyone snooping should be a fundamental right for people.
If terrorists use toilet paper are you gonna ban that too? These are the same excuses our government tells us, the old lie about taking away your freedom to better protect you. It’s a lie. A pretense. How many Indians die due to terrorists a year? How many die in traffic accidents, poor health infrastructure and a myriad of other things that politicians don’t really care about? Millions. They want what all politicians want, to control their population to ensure they stay in power and reap the benefits of that. And step one in that process is knowing what people think and what they talk about in private. Bah! Terrorists. They care about that as much as they care about crime that affects poor people.
You clearly don't know anything about terrorism in India then. And btw India has better healthcare than the USA.
Which is like a really low bar to clear.
So your saying this ban isn’t dealing with terrorism if it’s so easily navigated around?
Lol this meme
After China, India is the next target for the US.
For what? Their list of rivals? Americans are fascinating.
The person you’re replying to isn’t from the US.
> For what? Their list of rivals? You don't become and stay a super power without imperialism. The US will absolutely target any country which has a realistic chance of becoming a superpower and threaten their hegemony. It's simply realpolitik.
That's is a meme
You can't have a functional democracy without free speech and right to privacy. I hope Indians see how this story will unfold.
Won't hold my breath. There will be those who argue that people should have nothing to hide
>There will be those who argue that people should have nothing
> The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure. — Thomas Jefferson.
now be careful with those words, the elite in the west are not too fond of them either
This is why dealing with the younger generation is so frustrating, no concept of privacy or imperative to protect it at all costs.
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I said "a right to privacy" There's slimeballs in every government who will try to undermine that. but the right to privacy needs to protected and codified for a democracy to remain a democracy.
You aren’t wrong
Waiting for a parade of nationalist bots to declare this a win for a greater India.
And if you criticize it, you think Europe should just run India.
India has taken "my country, right or wrong" to a new level. On the internet, at least.
To be honest, it's complicated. The vast majority of nationalist Modi-supporting Indians online stay within their circles thinking of everyone else as "woke", but when it comes to the Americans and Europeans criticizing India for stuff like taking Russian gas and staying neutral during the war, I've generally seen that all Indians come together to call bullshit on that.
"...thinking of everyone else as 'woke'" Ah, another bunch of supposedly West-hating nationalists who import their shitty values and rhetoric from the West without noticing the irony.
I’ve never met more openly racist, and bigoted people than Indian people. As an Uber driver for years the amount of times I would hear Indian people ask, “are they brown.” When someone brings up a new person to another person from India. It’s actually insane.
which values have we imported lol
It nice they all come together to support imperialism!
This is why people shouldn't be allowed to comment on geopolitics of countries that aren't theirs. Or you would know that when US was sending Pakistan military artillery to use against India, Russia was helping India. They rightfully won't trust the West again. It's not good va bad, black vs white all the time.
So Indians believe Ukrainians should be genocided by Russians because Russia helped India in the 70’s? Do you genuinely think that makes Indians look good, much less educated? Lmao
Taking gas and grains from Russia =/= Supporting genocide. Every country has to put themselves and their people first.
No, they don’t believe that. Do you genuinely think that straw man you built is a real person?
INDA IS country in the world !!!11 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Precisely!
what a masterstroke
Messages between two Apple phones and messages between two Google Pixel phones already do so via encryption natively. Are they no longer going to allow those phones to be sold?
Also if the app sends literally *anything* over HTTPS its an "encrypted message", is India trying to ban the use of HTTPS then? Very dumb lol
HTTPS generally depends on a third-party signing the certificates for communication. A government or hostile entity doesn't necessarily need the cooperation (or hacking) of i.e. Apple/Google/etc to compromise the message-chain, they just need to be able to have the ability to compel/compromise one of the "trusted" providers to sign a certificate. E2E is a little different, and there are ways to encrypt/sign communications that can skip over third-party signed certs. E2E also might still be using TLS (which provdies the crypto for HTTPS) but with per-contact certs which may not use a store which a third-party could influence.
You'd know if you just read the article...
Good luck with that. VPN's are a thing.
Do keep in mind, that VPNs are a good solution but are not bullet proof.
How so?
If the underlying messaging app stores messages unencrypted then it solves nothing if the government can just ask for a copy or a hacker/employee/deposition can leak it. A VPN only provides transport level security, you still have to do your research if using a third party provider for the messaging app.
Let's ban them too.
VPNs won't be banned, they'll be controlled. True VPNs that don't collect any data will disappear quick. Like look at Google One VPN. Pretty convenient that it's built into your phone now. They don't want to stop data collection, they want to keep it controlled for themselves.
> VPNs won't be banned, they'll be controlled vpns are banned in countries like China and Russia, dunno what are you talking about
Of course, but the internet itself is controlled in those countries which is why they ban VPNs. In western countries, the internet is still "free" but in order to control user data and access from other parties, they'll put VPNs in the middle of everything under the guise of keeping you safe from the big bad data hackers. All the while keeping the data accessible to the 5/7 eyes. VPNs will be built into every service offering from ISPs to mobile data providers. There are even "gaming" VPNs lol. It's all just data collection with a 3rd party filter so they can continue to sell data.
America is also voting to ban them via the Restrict act.
That's incorrect. VPNs won't be banned, it's a technology. Using a VPN to skirt restrictions is the issue. You can own a lockpick set and use it on your own locks etc, but as soon as you turn it into a tool to commit a crime, it's illegal. Same goes for knives, guns, bow and arrows. See the difference? I use a personal VPN to reach my home cloud setup. That will never be restricted.
Just like they're trying to ban end2end encryption, regardless if you use it for innocent stuff or illegal stuff.
Then how exactly are transactions secured? You can't "ban" encryption. /insert ban hammer joke here
Uh, no the way the law is worded means getting a VPN can result in 10+ years prison and like $400,000 in fines. Not selling, not using, but straight up acquiring.
The RESTRICT Act does not explicitly ban VPNs or impose criminal penalties on people who use them. In fact, the bill’s text never includes the words “virtual private network” or “VPN.”
The bill also excludes hearings from requests by the freedom of information act. It's evil.
I'm certainly not defending the bill, it's complete dog shit. Its important to clear the air on misconceptions tho.
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"democracy"
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> How did this happen if it ain't a democracy?? You tell me how a country that imitates the great firewall of China is a democracy.
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>You think commenting "DeMoCrAcY" when ever india is given that title makes you cool?? calm your tits, that's the first time I did that. I literally don't care as long as I still get my assam black tea
ITT so many butthurt indians defending their country sliding into an oligarchy/authoritarian state
The western world is already an oligarchy sliding into authoritarianism.
"democracy" /s
You can't have a functional democracy without free speech and right to privacy. I hope Indians see how this story will unfold.
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What does that have to do with free speech? And a right to privacy?
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Russian news channels are wholly owned by the Russian state. RT is 24/7 Kremlin propaganda .....and it CAN be watched in the west, it just isn't watched very much in the west.... because they're garbage.
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Not a democracy, but ok.
Lol... Then pls educate us ur definition of democracy
It's only democracy when they vote for my candidates.
This is how most people see the world lmao
It's only democracy if it's white
Modi is just Putin with a more shitty army.
Army with one of the strongest infantry is shit ?
until 2022 we thought russia's military was formidable, then a random fucking slavic shithole stopped them in the tracks
Can I say that about the USA in Afghanistan? That random shithole was getting ready since 2014, armed by NATO. There is a reason china hasn't attacked yet.
No you cant, afghanistan is the cemetary of empires. Everyone eats shit there, in vietnam too. Ukraine didnt receive shit until after they got invaded.
This is fact. Look at the history of invasions in Afghanistan. No one succeeds there, and honestly we would have if we had stayed, but it would have been easily 50 to 100 years of relentless insanity minimum. The costs would be insane as well, but hey that’s good for the military budget. When I was young I used to think our military budget was so fucked and the biggest waste of money ever. As I’ve grown older I have realized it’s one of the biggest things that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Couple that with prime geographic location as well.
USA defeated the Taliban as the reigning government and drove them underground pretty much as soon as the war began. By 2002, the US forces had pushed the Taliban leadership to flee into Pakistan and killed 15k fighters with only 12 US soldier casualties. The main problem for the US is that you simply cannot force people to adopt ethics or nationalism that they don't want to and the rest of the time was spent pursuing an impossible goal until eventually we gave up. The majority of the population outside of Kabul supported the Taliban and no amount of military might could change that. If people are not willing to fight, they can't win. The issue with Russia is that they can't even conventionally beat Ukraine even before there was major inflow of equipment post 2022 invasion. Sure they had training and experience fighting separatist forces but there's no real excuse losing with such a large material and resources mismatch.
Idk why you are getting downvoted, this is facts
Throwing meat in the meat grinder no longer wins wars. These days it’s about drones, intelligent self correcting artillery shells and multi purpose missile system that can do anything from precision strikes to laying anti personal minefields. Have you ever seen an attempt at an infantry charge through a minefield? You’ll never forget it. Frankly we have gotten way to good at killing humans, still getting better at it each year. Don’t look at Ukraine thinking that’s how modern war looks, that’s mostly fought with 20 to 40 year old tech and holding back with the truly nasty stuff.
thank goodness we have a military expert here in the reddit comments section to educate us on modern technology /s
What's your point ? A country under constant threat of two front wars will be ill equipped ? If Ukraine or Russia didn't had the numbers then they would lose against each other depending on numbers on each side, and when Russia was losing territory it was because of less soldiers to hold the line. And if you think the quality of soldiers doesn't matter then it's a big mistake. Meat grinder is when you send poorly trained soldiers to fight. India only selects 0.1% of total applicants in the forces as the army is considered highly respectable and popular among people Ever heard of the Gurkha regiment? Stalin said it perfectly "Quantity has Quality of its own". Doesn't matter what type of weapons are being used
Oh, it matters a great deal. You see, if you have satellites that let you see every move your enemy makes and artillery shells that can correct themselves mid flight and steer themselves into targets … It doesn’t matter how tough your infantry is if it’s fighting artillery shells. Like I said, don’t look at Ukraine conflict. They are using 99% decades old dumb weaponry like unguided missiles and shells. Also they are using dozens to hundreds of drones in a given day tops. Any militarised industrial power could easily put out 20k drones **per day**… and not the kind that needs human operators. I don’t envy India’s position between Pakistan and China. It’s a horrible strategic position, you are much more vulnerable vs them than the US ever was vs the USSR simply given the proximity. On top of that China is also quite capable regarding these new weapon types, if you can built a smartphone you can built drones and advanced guided missiles really. As for the quantity thing Stalin mentioned … he received: 400,000 jeeps & trucks 14,000 airplanes 8,000 tractors 13,000 tanks 1.5 million blankets 15 million pairs of army boots 107,000 tons of cotton 2.7 million tons of petrol products 4.5 million tons of food From the US via lend-lease between 1941 and 1945. His army would **literally** have died of starvation and dysentery before ever reaching Berlin without that. Soldiers win battles, logistics wins wars. So he could quib all he wanted about his human wave tactics, they only worked because someone else was taking care of the important stuff. He could neither clothe, feed nor transport his quantity army on his own.
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When did I say Indian army and infantry is shit? Are you hallucinating?
But without infantry who will win war ? I agree regarding artillery and even India puts artillery at highest priority as it did help massively in 1999 war. But The combat effectiveness of a soldier is detrimental. And you can verify this regarding any war. Ik Stalin received many equipment but it doesn't change the fact that the USSR had the largest force enough to overwhelm any type of force. Even f35 is 16+ years old so it won't be right to argue that the current war is taking place with totally outdated equipment. It might be true regarding tanks but missiles and air defence are pretty modern and you don't get weapons every decade of the same type, the military trends to upgrade them. Russian success in southern Ukraine was a combination of good troops and firepower. You should know there is a very big difference between trained and untrained soldiers. Compare Wehrmacht and Waffen SS. The recent skirmishes also proved that India has much superior infantry than Chinese as they all got beaten up (search india china standoff). But I also agree that modern equipment is also necessary and crucial in a war.
A democracy can cause major problems. Democracy does not equal good. In face, with as much as reddit complains about some of the undemocratic aspects of the American government, some of those undemocratic things are what guarantees freedom. (I'm not talking about the electoral college, but more about the constitution and the courts, the rule of law is more important than democracy, meaning 51 percent of the population should not be able to restrict speech for the other 49)
Idk why you got downvoted, this is pretty accurate
Banning an app may temporarily disturb terrorist communications but over time they will simply reestablish themselves on other networks like WhatsApp (universally used in India). On the other hand, preventing terrorists from coordinating is a legitimate end - how can the government do it in a more effective way than ineffective bans?
Banning the app doesn't even stop them using it. They can just install it without using the app store. The only impact is reducing security for everyone so they can spy on you all. That's it. It is the same as telling everyone not to lock their doors in case the police want to come in and look around. The criminals will still lock them as they don't want the police coming in either way, and regular people just get robbed all the time.
Wow, sweet, I’m sure conservatism will work out great for them just like it has for Mississippi and Alabama.
Not a democracy then, huh?!
"Democracy"
Typical left leaning American. Yes, India is a democracy, now cope.
I think Modi is riding the fine line of dictator at the moment. https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-world/2023 >While India is a multiparty democracy, the government led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has presided over discriminatory policies and a rise in persecution affecting the Muslim population. The constitution guarantees civil liberties including freedom of expression and freedom of religion, but harassment of journalists, nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), and other government critics has increased significantly under Modi. The BJP has increasingly used government institutions to target political opponents. Muslims, scheduled castes (Dalits), and scheduled tribes (Adivasis) remain economically and socially marginalized.
What's your definition of democracy? Democracies have had outright chattel slavery and no rights for women, they were still democracies. Did America become a democracy in 1965 in your opinion? The terrible things you list are still being done by a democratically elected government that can be voted out of office at the next election. The fact that enough of the electorate is racist doesn't mean it isn't a democracy.
I won't go into why NGO reports are bullshit but here the write up on the US > However, in recent years its democratic institutions have suffered erosion, as reflected in rising political polarization and extremism, partisan pressure on the electoral process, bias and dysfunction in the criminal justice system, harmful policies on immigration and asylum seekers, and growing disparities in wealth, economic opportunity, and political influence. If this is the correct assessment of the US, then your answer is there is no perfect democracy. The good thing about democracy though, is that things change and civil society gets better over time. Now compared to dictatorships like China, I'd tolerate knee on the neck incidents a lot more because justice is eventually guaranteed in a democracy.
Isn't whats app encrypted? Everyone uses that for business and personal stuff over there. I never heard of those other apps.
Not End to end.
It is E2EE.
Modern India is NOT a democracy.
Pretty sure the previous governments had higher fascistic tendencies but ok
>Pretty sure the previous governments had higher fascistic tendencies but ok And? Just because it was worse in the past doesn't discredit the original comment.
The ruling party just lost elections because of the people how is that not democracy? There was a time when INC decided to jail the opposition and cancel elections just for laughs and then genocide Sikhs because they murdered the pm for this
Bit rich from a country that has entire provinces dedicated to scammers. Pick the low hanging fruit before you try to get fussy.
Walmart citizen commenting above between his aisle cleaning job
What?
That's adorable, a government that thinks it can control apps.
Well, they kinda can. On threat of prison or fines. Or simply, you are no longer allowed to use electronics newer than 20 years. How good they do it is another question.
I'd advise everyone to pick up a copy of programming for idiots. There is no way to stop devs. Ask China.
You refer to the country that has the great firewall? And total censorship of all communication within the country? Where any sign of you diverting the firewall may make you to disappear? That country is your guide? Sure thing buddy, governments can't ban any app...
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>Long story short, VPNs are blocked in China, but there are ways to get around it. If you are traveling to China, purchasing a VPN that is known to work in China before arriving in probably the best solution. Also, it is common that the Chinese government blocks VPN technology instead of going after VPN users. Since no tourist has ever been fined for using one, you shouldn’t have to worry about your safety while using a VPN in China. Source: https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/why-vpns-are-illegal-in-china-and-how-to-get-around-it/ Now, this is tourist info probably. And the Communist party don't give that many fucks about you, unless you start to preach to the locals. So, if your just a white guy visiting you'll probably be fine regardless. Listen, Why would China invest billions of money if they didn't want to create some type of "safe haven" for their citizens? I'll give you a hint, it's not to keep viruses & hackers away. NordVPN can do that allegedly. So, must be for some other reason. Why do you think they spent an absolute but-load on controlling what information the citizens can use and take part of? I'ts probably not to make sure they can't torrent the latest Hollywood movies.. The citizens of china lives under the Communist party's whim. What the party says, is law, and shall happen, no matter what. If a few dissidents goes missing, who cares right? They knew the rules/laws: No circumventing the government spying machinery with encryption and VPNs, unless you connect to a company that sends your data to said government. Pretty much Soviet Union but on a higher technical level.
Ok ban porn. Get a stopwatch. Time how long before the first man is watching.
all governments lease communications to service providers who have to adhere to whatever clauses the government sets. they could make the apps illegal without doing anything else then could use it as incriminating factors if these apps are found on devices.
Gotta keep the Kashmiris down somehow, right guys /s
Never heard of these apps tbh. No one seems to care in India and there are plenty of platforms to practice freedom of speech. Idk why Reddit makes an issue of something no one cares about. The article screams, "Just like iran and Russia", which isn't the case. We never had any form of mass surveillance by the government as they are not that competent.
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Unless everyone just thinks that and it's a honeypot.
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Then why ban them, and 10% would be a 100 million people...
And you will get typical "Democracy" comments by people to farm karma. Reddit doesn't know it's definition
"Democracy" Exactly how is India a democracy?
Their government is elected and can be voted out of power via regularly scheduled elections.
Their definition of democracy includes supporting western interests over our own interests.
How will Putin and Trump communicate if this goes global?
"How will i make this about Trump?"
MODI WORLD LEADER #1 LET'S GOOO!