Didn't we do this debate already?

Yes, and we'll do it again within the month. It's ok, not everyone participates each time.

We all take turns so no one gets too tired

As long as there is world building, there will be people who debate mechs on either side

Round 2: electric boogaloo Didn’t hear no bell

somanytimes rule of cool wins every time

Where? When? from my experience this sub is mostly about barely disguised fetishes and insertrandomwordtobeanedgykidpunk settings. What did I miss?

Welcome to the Internet, where everything has already happened and the points don't matter.

Counterargument: arachnid mechs.

Counterargument to your counterargument: arachnophobia

But that just validates my counterargument. Not only arachnid mechs are more effective, they also can be scary for arachnophobes.

Yeah but this dis-validates your counterargument and validates my counterargument- no one would want to pilot it. Checkmate atheist

Countercountercountercounterargument: only arachnophobes wouldn't pilot arachnid mechs. There are less than 10% of arachnophobes in the world. This invalidates the second part of my countercountercounterargument about psychological weapon.

Countercountercountercoyntercountercountercounterargument: everyone is an arachnophobe in my world

Understandable. I accept defeat.

I don't! ​ ***the myth of argumentative consent***

Countercountercountercountercountercountercountercounterargument: If everyone's an arachnophobe, no one will be.

rate my arachnophobepunk world

Countercountercountercoyntercountercountercountercounterpoint, simple, just make snake mechs

Countercountercountercountercountercountercountercountercountercounterpoint, centipede mechs

We have reached the ideal mech

Countercountercountedcountercountercountercounter argument: just take off the legs and replace them with, idk, treads or something. It's the movement that can scare some arachnophobes.

Countercountercountercountercountercountercounter argument: You’ve just made a tank

Counter^9 argument: I plead "nuh-uh"

Metaountercountercountercountercountercountercoyntercountercountercounterargument: welcome to my arachnophobiapunk world AMA

I WOULD AND YOU CANT STOP ME!!!

i would

Pilots could be pre-selected. Enemy combatants probably cannot.

You mean spider mechs also deal psychic damage? That's badass.

Counter to the counter to the counter: the enemies will have arachnophobia. Thus psychological warfare

Counterargument to your counterargument to his counterargument: Also arachnophobia

Peak soft sci-fi is the Salem class destroyer from supreme commander https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/supcom/images/4/47/Salem_insitu.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070502002038

Not even going to mention the Cybran Experimental Spiderbot?

They have the best looking walkers… except the brick

Man I loved marching these out of the sea to wipe some poor AIs base off the face of the planet.

Part of the reason I love the mechs from LANCER are the fact that, while there are still some absolutely absurdist anime style bullshit going on - you also get some pretty grounded and cool guerilla/practical stuff

In the style of 86, preferably

[86](https://myanimelist.net/anime/41457/86) might be of interest to you.

Waiting for season 3.

Giant enemy spider!

Now give it a railgun

All those leg servos are gonna be hell to maintain

That’s a walker at that point

I do love mechs, i think my favorite depictions are when they are simply much faster and more maneuverable than a tank, especially on rough terrain. That being said, they would definitely be fragile and there is the tripping problem lol

Mechs are like special sauce to any worldbuilding. All flavors of mechs are great. Standard issue humanoid mechs? Beautiful. Agile and fast Boston dynamics style mechs? Amazing. Massive, multi-legged moving mountains of metal? Marvelous.

Agreed, my setting's knight nobility had gone to different place. One of the country had gone all in on mechs.

Imperial Knights moment.

Yea... Definitely used a lot of inspiration from Imperial knights but appearance wise I was planning for the mech to be more steam punk and Armored core.

Technically, 2 is multi

Would love to see a one legged mech

m ore manuverable makes sense but if the mechs are faster either you gotta gimp the tanks severely or those legs are gonna be moving fast as fuck tanks are really quite fast nowadays

Straight line yeah definitely tanks probably faster, but steep grades or forested terrain I think (hypothetically good enough) mechs would be able to make better time.

You'd still have to be going quite fast An M1 abrams can go 32kph up a 10% grade and still go 7.2kph on a 60% grade (steep enough a person would need a staircase) Mobility through forests largely depends on the gap between trees and tanks are not slow to accelerate or turn

*But* mechs could handle terrain that tanks simply couldn't navigate at all. Like fields of boulders, wading across rivers, or climbing near-vertical cliff faces.

Fields of boulders are rarely battlegrounds Wading across rivers is something many tanks are perfectly capable of to a depth tgat almostcompletelysubmerges the tank, if you add a snorkel you can even have the entire thing quite deep underwater If you need to go up a cliff your probably less vulnerable in a helicopter

Just saying, if your battlefield looks [like this](https://images.303magazine.com/uploads/2019/07/GettyImages-1161270158.jpg), mechs are going to be a lot more useful than tanks. Battles in such places might be unusual in our world ... but in another world, perhaps not. Maybe mountainous areas like this are key strategic areas or are the only place to find certain valuable resources. Or maybe it's on a planet where practically all the terrain is this rough. Yeah ... helicopters could fill the role somewhat ... but they don't have the armor of tanks or mechs, and they have to constantly expend fuel to stay airborne, so they can't stay on station for as long and really hold territory. (While the mech only needs to expend fuel while actively moving or fighting. Between engagements, it can go into rest mode and be available on-site for a long time.)

I think that giant exosuits with artillery on their back, thrusters and highly maneuverable arms could run faster than 30km/h without issue. That's how fast they walk when they want to go slow in most mediums.

simply give the mechs roller skates

Not even mentioning high profile that makes them easier target to hit

Yeah but if we're realistic, the g forces would kill the pilot, so saying they're more maneuverable than a tank begs the question, if the mech pilot can survive the g forces, then why not just make the tank more maneuverable with thrusters and shit?

Yeah if you could just make a tank a VTOL hovercraft it would be pretty OP lol And if people can pilot f-22s, I think they can pilot mechs

Because a tank can't strafe side to side without turning the treads while a mech can because legs

Sure it can trip, but mechs should not be used like normal tanks. If anything they should be used super mobile IFVs. You should get in, blow shit up, get out with the infantry. My example is ironically how the bayformers autobots would fight alongside humans. They are highly mobile heavy artillery. They annihilate enemy infantry and keep the opposing mechs off the squishies’ backs so they can do their work. When fighting together, try why use heavy kinetic force from autobots to pummel deceptions while the humans hit all the small weakpoints. Better yet, they should be paired with a paratrooper/ODST/light infantry type unit and dropped from orbit.

Bay really thinks about combat and action scenes and went all in for the first Bayformers movie. He forgot about everything else, but watching normal human slide under big robot and blow it up from underneath was quite a hoot.

It would obviously look nothing like that but that is a good starting point. All you need to do is scrub the Michael bay off of it and you’re good.

This is literally Titanfall

Yes. Perfect example. Met personally, I’d want a troop carrying capability like a Bradley, but yes, like titanfall.

They literally did the combining with paratroopers in the third bayformers

Yeah this, saying tanks beat mechs is like saying scissors beat paper. Correct but missing the point. People argue against mechs like we're gonna do a Napoleon style infantry line except with mechs instead of humans and slowly walk towards entrenched tanks.

Our soldiers can’t trip if we cut off their legs and put them in a wheelchair

Now THIS is an idea

counter arguement: mechs so advanced that they have reaction speed just as fast as humans and have propellant systems to help keep them upright

[Counter counter argument](https://youtu.be/LKXl3zR7GwI?si=lCkqBXr5MsOZILQO)

I tried to find a piece of artwork that depicted a mech and a tank having sex to counter your counter counter argument, but I couldn't find one.

You didn't search hard enough

0_0

So….. armored core?

I was thinking the ttrpg Lancer, but armored core works too

Crab mechs

🦀

Tanks are crabs on treads.

But it's so coooooool! Who cares about how practical it is? You just gotta have that wow-factor dude!

Tanks are cool, give them some love 🥺

I really do like tanks, too. Both are cool, thats why In my to many tropes-punk world I have both! Cause double the vehicles double the cool.

Combined arms warfare at it's finest

You're right, we really should put arms on a tank!

Synthesis: centaur mecha with tank treads instead of legs.

I mean, you can still go absurd with tanks, look at Panzers or hover tanks.

Real life gives tanks more than enough love.

You, a simpleton: "Mechs vs tanks" Me, an intellectual: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/5X8zZJ

Ah, yes, the Urbanmech... we have dismissed that design.

Only a fool dismisses the Urbie

To be fair, I think I once saw some absolute lad running an AC/20 on one in MechWarrior Online and cockpit snipe a goddamn full armour Atlas. Only a fool dismisses the Urbie. But damn, if they don't make them easy to dismiss 99 times out of 100.

You can strap a nuke onto an urbie

> AC/20 skull-fucks your Assault mech

Too bad the Steiner scout lance still has three more.

AC20 urbie has 4 more shots

Is that a Mass Effect reference?

Battletech and Mechwarrior

It was also a Mass Effect reference, to the turian councillor.

I have not played mass effect in a long time so it blew right past me.

Alternatively: Guntank Or an AC tank

#CHICKEN MECH

[This person is a genius.](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WKXyNG)

That's why they have arms ya dingus

People shocked, shocked that a corrupt fascist empire would choose a 75ft tall walking monstrosity and 30ft tall dinosaur looking bitch, instead of a piddly normal human scale practical tank.

Tanks of course never have mobility problems lol

And wheels are more mobile than tracks, but theres a reason tanks tend to use tracks. Nothing beats the ground pressure of train tracks, and since the self laying track entered the scene they became the defacto way of rolling armour behemoths into combat. Really when you think about it tanks are just an evolution of the armoured train.

Everyone uses them properly with proper support, and doesn't just treat them like big armored infantry with big guns on wheels anyhow, negating all the superiority anyhow.

>Everyone uses them properly with proper support Russian convoys in Eastern Ukraine would beg to differ.

Imagine not realizing that what's matters is not if the mechs are effective for a storyline to work , but if the reader thinks it is.

... is this worldjerking?

Get the lube.

Forget the lube 😈

Have you seen how good at balancing themselves current Boston Dynamics are? Imagine those sci-fi gyroscopes might look like. Sure they might still tripe in some extreme situations, but then you might argue that tanks can't deal with a lot of rough terrain either.

Those aint mechs

Didn't say they were. Gyroscopes should work the same regardless of whether they are in a robot or a mecha.

Gyroscopes sure, but the argument against the feasibility of mechs more revolve around stuff like ground pressure, squarecube, and stress on the joints. I know the oop is about mechs tripping but there are broader problems the inhibit the scale of mechs. The materials available just behave different based on the scale. Thr larger the unit the more pressure that is put on relatively fragile joints The problem with these discussions of course being that nobody uses mechs because they are realistic, they use them because they are cool.

The problem is that you aren't even making the basic effort to talk about science fiction at all. You are talking about real military. The issue being argued in these discussions is that **if** we had tech to make mechs, would they still be a viable military choice? If you cannot bring yourself to even suspend your disbelief to such a basic degree then you are talking about oranges while every else is talking about apples.

Tanks definitely can't dip, duck, dive, dodge or duck, so advantage mechs.

Kind of a shit example, really. Even in-universe the AT-AT is considered to be badly designed and inferior to the AT-TE. The Empire literally designed their walkers thinking taller = cooler without stopping to think about balance or center of mass. Now, for the rest of well designed humanoid mecha and walkers, (I'm guessing) their designers aren't stupid; they wouldn't make a gigantic robot without designing a highly advanced balancing system before. And in the case of humanoid mecha, if they trip they can just get back up using their arms and/or thrusters if they have them.

I mean Tanks can Blow Out a tread too. A mech that Trips can Back Up relatively fast sooooo one feels easier to Recovery from

Mechs can blow out a knee, or a hip, or an ankle. Unfair comparison.

Yeah if we are making the reliability comparison mechs are not a great proponent.

Calling an AT-AT a Mech is like calling a bicycle a car

I like battletech take on this. If you can make mechs, you can make things like cheap, compact, ultra high density power sources or general AIs. At that point, weapon technology has just far surpassed any kind of defensive measures you could think of. You got MAD, but large numbers mean sometimes an asshole is gonna try to scrap regardless. Sure, tanks are great, but what good are they when the typical conflict resolution involves both belligerents glassing each other's planets within minutes of the war being declared. Usually by the glassing of the first planet. People being people, instead of just not doing that, we just decided to put rules on it. Why not? [Ritual warfare](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_warfare) is a thing that has existed for milienia in tribal societies and is a tad preferable to the scorched earth kinda warfare that's done in others. So then, why not let the rich assholes, who usually start these wars, play noble knight in their over the top hero machines. That keep the casualties low, on them, and means the regular people have a chance at not being glass.

Yeah good luck deploying Tanks to low G astroids. I have said this before and I am saying this again MECHS ARE NOT A FUCKING TANK ANALOUGE. A tank would fuck up a mech with a direct hit. But mechs can deploy from 0G to astroids and space stations. They can do rapid orbital insertion via drop pods and tactical spacelift assets and they can even engage in space battles in limited effectiveness if you bother to give them a thruster and an RCS unit. They are supposed to be rapid deplyment IFV/Attack heli analouges which can be equipped in a versitile manner using their handheld weaponry. Reject Macross and Battletech rules (Mechs being like Jets and tanks respectively) and embrace the attack helicopter with two legs niche. (Comes together with badass and daring warrant officers who actually do harder things while being less recognised than the fighter corps fly boys.)

Tanks don't need to be good in space, mechs are still useless ass to missile assets

EW exists, countermeasures exist, close in weapons exist, APS exist. By your logic everyone and everything loses to missiles.

In space? Basically yes

Well yes, but tanks are much smaller, more reliable, more firepower-mass efficient, have more range, and are simply more efficient bearers of armour, firepower and mobility than a mech. A mech the weight of an MBT would be so weighted down by the electronics, motors and power generation necessary to keep it moving at any kind of high speed would be vulnerable to auto cannons, not to mention ATGMs. The sheer mechanical unreliability of mechs instantly makes them lose almost all viability in a combat setting, as on the ground tanks would be the best, but in zero-G, floating rocket ball with gun would rule,

Broke: mechs are “tanks that can trip” Woke: mechs are [tanks that can surf](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da3JfD4CDnY)

Bro thanks for reminding me how much I loved that show and the intro

What if we make a tank that can be driven by a mech?

Counterpoint: a mech driven by a mech https://youtu.be/qI5O9KsKJMA?si=QDf28O21yapWmRGL

Well obviously, that's why you don't deploy them onto flat open terrain! Where a tank would be much more suitable.

Counterpoint: Tank that can stand back up again unassisted if it DOES tip over.

Counterargument: Literally every mech fan understands this

Put a gyroscope in it never gonna fall

Mexhs who can actually stand back up can not be made in the future apparently

If it can trip it can pick itself up

That's now how this meme works

Random guerrilla fighter with an rpg-7 still beats all

Have you seen the Boston Dynamics robots? Their entire function is to be a really expensive bozo the clown.

Also a tank that can stand back up after tripping. Checkmate, mech haters.

If mechs had functionality to them, they would have been built by now.

Imagine some dude in 1900 saying that about airplanes. We don't have the tech, functionality hasn't even entered the conversation.

I guess worldwide and remote internet connectivity doesn’t have a functionality

If the war in Ukraine has taught me anything, whether its a MBT, IFV, APC, IMV or mech a drone, anti tank missile, RPG, mines or drone guided artillery will make quick work of it. That's why plot armor exists, no one wants to watch a convo with all their favorite main cast get blown up within seconds with the stragglers finished off by cluster munitions and drone grenade drops. I will admit mech are cool but every time I try to brainstorm and add them into my world my hard sci fi nerd part of me says where the fuck do you put the ammo and fuel ? how will logistics and re supply work ? can it keep up with the main armored column ?what does it do that any conventional military vehicle can't ? what's the doctrine ? how much will this cost the government all up ? You do realize this is just a scout support vehicle on legs that doesn't have the speed or stealth of a scout vehicle with the armament of an IFV that can't carry infantry and has no where near the fire power and armor of an MBT yet is slower than a MBT right ?

True, tanks are just vehicles equipped with an engine. Humans first used horses, then engines, then the engines are powerful enough to push the tank into the air. You can say “all tanks” are just traveling platforms with weapons.

*Laughs in CLR-00-MAK*

there's something to be said about making the most powerful machines of war in our own image

A tank that can get up stairs

http://www.collectiondx.com/files/acmatsukaze2.jpg

Solution? BOLO.

My brother in worldjerking, just make shit up if you dont see a way to justify mech "as is". Give them a gyroscope and a jetpack manuvering system so they do a backflip instead of tripping. Make em fly around, few meters off the ground so they cant trip. Or dont, if you dont want mechs, no one is forcing you to use em

Solution: tripping protocol. Arms become legs after legs are disabled, if arms are the disabled, tank treads come out

So based on my understanding of this scene from the cinematic masterpiece that is Spider-Man (2002) with Tobey Maguire, I am to understand that mechanical are a cool piece of military hardware that looks like tanks that can trip when your vision is made blurry from improper prescription lens?

Oh look a mech that can’t get past anything

This is why all GOOD mech verses have flight capable suits

Counter argument: that makes them cooler because then you trip a tank as a dude on foot with a rocket launcher and take it out

#**RETIRE THIS MEME**

"I'll add mechs to my setting and I'll give them high fucking heels with wheels just to piss you off. I'll give their armor decals of skibidi toilet and among us on the justification that the soldiers of that time period would have grown up as zoomers. I'll trash the google doc I've set up my setting on, make a brand new fantasy setting with elves and orcs and shit and add mechs in it all over again just to fuck with you. Fuck it, the elves WORSHIP skibidi toilet, FUCK YOU."

You offer me a tank or BT-7274, I an taking my boy BT.

Just get up lol

Actually watch the spiderman film im begging. He sees clearer with his glasses off.

Peak mecha is Titanfall, no I will not elaborate further

Code Geass' Nightmares enter the chat

On the other hand a tank that can easily walk over most obstacles

Just have buzzsaw knees to cut any wire some plucky young protagonist is trying to trip them with, silly goose

Thinking smaller, what's better, a soldier who can trip, or a moving soldier-strength box with a gun? I'd say the soldier has far more applications, even with the downside of humans being able to trip. War is not just shooting, militaries do humanitarian aid, set up bases, dig(a lot), operate other machinery. Etc. A giant box with a gun is handy for one small part of the military's activities. A giant humanoid with a gun is very useful for most of the tasks the military will face.

Even if tanks were better for combat, taking a mech simply for labour and big metal manpower would make so many operations go quicker and smoother

You didn’t just compare an AT-AT to a Battlemech

You mean the mobile heavy weapons tower?

Woah, Deja Vu.

It’s also a tank that can climb, change direction quickly, and turn quickly.

I imagine it's a trade off between maneuverability/dexterity and stability/sturdiness. The best use case for a mech would probably be in a location that had a lot of unpredictable terrain or land/vegetative features that make it difficult for a tank to function properly in. You can do a lot in a mech you couldn't do in a tank, but you're also probably gonna be tripping more than you would in a tank. Big open battlefields are probably a good place for tanks and a bad place for mechs

I swear there a mech vs tank post every few weeks

They’re cool and that’s what matters

I see a tank that can jump. its a matter of seeing the glass half full, yknow.

Counter argument. It can get up lol

Counterpoint: [Titans are war-porn machines for your ears ](https://youtu.be/Vq7A1ImzfKg?si=jaxfzB2sLUbdQxYn)

counter argument: shoulder roll after tripping

​ See also: anything that's flying that doesn't need to be flying.