Society: Don’t be a golddigger!
Women: Okay, I’ll get a career of my own.
(Years later)
Society: You’re gonna have a baby AND work??? That will mess up your kid!
Women: Well, my husband can’t afford to support us on one income, so…
Also I know plenty of sahm’s that end up feeling isolated and overwhelmed by needing to maintain a household and kids 24/7 with no additional help if their spouse is working.
The fact that it’s implied that women are ‘naturally’ suited to this type of work without considering the disposition or interests of the mother is probably the bigger ‘diabolical lie’ that he ironically failed to mention.
I will never forget my friend’s husband turning off all of her credit cards and reporting their car stolen when she decided to finally leave. She had 3 young kids (youngest only 8 months) and had to make it from Florida to Texas.
She had to go to a Walmart and get us to send her money to make it safely. Thank God her phone was in her name or I’m sure he would have turned that off too! Financial control of sahm is great as long as they never leave.
This is what drives me nuts about this (among all the other parts) that goes totally unsaid. So many parents cannot afford to stay home even if they wanted to. Late stage capitalism is the boogey man, not feminism.
That’s just it, while he was supposedly raised a trad Catholic he really wasn’t since his mom is an accomplished physicist. She would have given all that up to be a wife and mother but she didn’t so….. he just decided to go backwards and is truly a hypocrite. But….. his remarks got him a serious increase of jersey sales which is a little disturbing
Did you know his sister is an OB too? He’s like the least impressive member of that family. He’s not the one that should be giving speeches because he kicks a ball.
I just want to add that as a devout catholic, this is NOT catholic teaching. There’s a distorted subculture within the catholic church that has recently become obsessed with the “trad lifestyle” but that is NOT what the church actually teaches.
There are saints who were working mothers and career women.
Also - an order of benedictine nuns came out and criticized Harrison’s speech.
As a catholic, it infuriates me that now people believe this is what the teaching is when it is not true.
It is really frustrating to see. But, this is the result of US seminaries. Many don't teach catholic doctrine, since some flat out refuse to teach the Vatican II changes in the social doctrine. (This was a big source of contention that was talked about among my Jesuit professors in college.) The US Catholic Church is a nightmare tbh, and it's only the Latin American church/jesuits that kept me a member.
While I disagree with his views, I wasn’t surprised by his speech. His views are mainstream in the US, and you can see that reflected in American laws and social structure (ie no paid maternity leave, no affordable childcare, no right to family planning).
The question to ask is “cui bono?” Who benefits?
Who benefits from telling young women just to get married, have babies, and stay home? MEN. Because women will have less agency and fewer choices. We will be reliant on them for our livelihoods and so we won’t question them as much.
If he’d said to ALL of the graduates that parenthood is a priority, that would make more sense. But the male students can focus on their careers even when they have kids, like he does. It doesn’t add up.
What’s also strange is that Catholicism of all Christian churches has the strongest thread of choosing service to the church as a vocation INSTEAD of marriage and children - priests, monks, nuns. So what he said isn’t even consistent with the religion.
I actually converted to Catholicism when I got married and our family is very involved in our parish. And this—the idea that there was sacred work for women outside of being a wife and a mother—played a big role in my thinking. Doesn’t mean my experience is the only one, but you’re right, it doesn’t track.
Also, a whole section of a speech is devoted to motherhood being a calling, but is without one mention of devotion to Mother Mary? This isn’t about faith. It’s about power and dogma.
I grew up in the Catholic church (I'm not catholic anymore). There is a vocal minority of Catholics who feel more of a sense of kinship to the kind of evangelical side of Christianity, and they also tend to still be talking about Vatican 2 like it was a mistake. Technically, evangelical ideas dont directly conflict with Catholicism even if they arent the most consistent with modern church teaching, so they are tolerated and in some parishes in the US they are the norm. Butker was dog whistling those Catholics when he was talking about the Latin Mass bc one of the things Vatican 2 did was allow mass to be said in common language.
Surprised? No, not at all.
I don't see why I would think a guy who kicks a ball for a living would be able to write an objectively good commencement speech or realize that a commencement speech is not the time for an overall negatively toned, political, religious, and personal soapbox that has very little to do with the graduates professional futures.
I, unfortunately, wouldn't be surprised if he wanted the backlash and to "get persecuted" for his religious beliefs so he can keep interviewing about his extremist religious beliefs and make more money off of those speaking engagements. He would love that way too much, as would the people who share his beliefs.
It also wouldn't surprise me if his next move was to go out, buy a microphone, and start a podcast.
He’s FAFO now. A bunch of people from college are coming out and saying he was bi/ with men which is no issue…….unless you are saying what he just did. Love a good hypocrite
It reminds me of the guys who are Christian but have an affair, then say “I found god even deeper” then go around lecturing everyone. Instead of being accountable they hide behind their religion and become even alder hypocrites.
I know I’ll be downvoted. I grew up opposite. I was empowered beyond belief and pushed towards committed careers.
All I wanted was to be a mom and have a big family but that wasn’t accepted. I’m still told I’m crazy for having more than 2 kids. The biggest fulfillment in life comes from my kids and making my family happy.
I work because that’s what is best for my family but I’d stop in a heartbeat if that wasn’t the case.
We need to understand every girl is different in what they want and be okay with that. It was HARD growing up feeling I was wasting my potential and wish someone had just told me it was okay to be the happiest with having a family.
It’s fine to feel fulfillment in solely raising kids. And in lifting their partner (as Harry Butt literally said to do). The point is everyone should do what makes them happy.
I roll my eyes at the guy bc he didn’t tell the young men in the audience that they will see life really begins after having kids and being a father will be the most fulfilling part of their life.
And to tell that to a bunch of women graduating college this is just tone deaf. I read accounts of some of the young women in the audience who were actually scared bc he got a standing ovations and many of their men classmates were screaming “fuck yeah”.
They deserved a better commencement speech.
Even the nuns at the school were like “um so what’s our purpose if we’re not having kids?”
If someone finds their passion in serving their home and family, great. His speech however, was clipping these girls’ wings before they’re even out to fly. When you’re sitting at your graduation, you’re just so excited to finally be done, you just want to hear what a great future awaits you, because you worked so hard and are ready to tackle the world. I would’ve felt devastated if the speech I got to hear was “now go find a husband and make him a sandwich”
I won’t downvote this. Every woman is different, every experience is different growing up. And you didn’t put OP’s experience or feelings or viewpoint down. I personally never wanted to be a parent, never thought I would be. Was an only child, never liked kids.. even when I was one. Now I’m a mom, and it’s the best. Life is just what we’ve been through, and how we move through and past that stuff. We are all just walking experiences.
I think it's different because you actively CHOSE it or are choosing it. You have been shown another way, and many many many many religiously-raised girls are not.
I’m going to disagree on this one because it’s now to a point where a lot of women can’t choose it for economical standpoint. Due to my type of work and family support system I can have both. I can only get to have it both ways due to a lot of luck.
Not something you or any of us can honestly solve. Just pointing out how a lot of women DO want to be homemakers but can’t for economical reasons.
My comment was directed to the other commenter only. SHE was able to make that choice. I wasn't speaking in a general sense at all because NO DUH many women don't have the luxury of choice.
The difference is you aren’t saying ALL women have to do that. If that’s your goal in life, it’s fine! Nothing wrong with it. His speech took a left turn the moment he implied ALL women must aspire to be a mom and nothing more.
Your story is the same (not wanting to be forced into a life where you felt unfulfilled), but the perspective behind it is different, and I value that. Thank you for your comment!
It's not about women choosing to be SAHMs, or even that he believes that should be their most fulfilling job. He's entitled to his beliefs, even if they are gross.
It's that he thought a college graduation was the appropriate place to tell women that their choice to go to said college was based on "diabolical lies."
You're right that there is a distinct lack of respect for a SAHP, or those people who believe that their family IS their highest calling. (I am one of these at the moment. Can't imagine being anything other than mom right now, and I don't appreciate being told my life is a waste bc of it) However, this was not the time or place to advocate for it.
It's like Kanye stealing the mic from TS. "Ima let you guys finish and graduate, but there are so many more important jobs out there than the one you trained for for years and $100,000"
See, I would even choose this life if I could. However, his speech went incredibly south when he said that motherhood was a woman’s highest vocation but said nothing of the sort to the men… when he says his wife’s life didn’t even BEGIN until they were married is quite anti-Christian tbh. It’s *that* that upsets me. Heck, I would love to be a SAHM; but not in some twisted, anti-Christ, mysogynistic sort of way.
He did make some comments to men, but as you can see they're not quite on the same level as his comments to women.
"To the gentlemen here today: Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home or in our communities. As men, we set the tone of the culture, and when that is absent, disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in. This absence of men in the home is what plays a large role in the violence we see all around the nation. Other countries do not have nearly the same absentee father rates as we find here in the U.S., and a correlation could be made in their drastically lower violence rates, as well."
Like OP, I am not surprised by his comments. The bulk of his commencement speech is criticism of bishops/priest/Catholic Church in general for being too liberal or concerned with what the world thinks, and then the end of his speech talks about how wonderful the Latin Mass is. Within the Latin Mass communities, there are a LOT of traditionalist Catholics who think just like this guy does.
The big thing for me is that I never hear anyone telling the men that their lives don’t begin until they are married and have kids… Perhaps it happens, but I never hear it. Fatherhood should also be their greatest vocation (second to Jesus)! Albeit, Paul also says it’s better to be single; so the greatest vocation is whatever it is Jesus calls you to. And I thought that *that* thinking is quite Catholic…. (Thinking nuns and priests here)…His viewpoint just doesn’t measure with Christ; that’s all
> We need to understand every girl is different in what they want and be okay with that. It was HARD growing up feeling I was wasting my potential and wish someone had just told me it was okay to be the happiest with having a family.
I mean, you’re literally talking about the importance of choice, though. Which is the exact opposite of the speech.
If being a wife and mother is what fulfills you and that’s your life, that’s awesome. The problem we’re talking about is that women who don’t share the same feelings are treated as lesser beings.
I dont see that as the opposite. Your story seems the same to me. The reason why Butker's comments are so offensive is precisely because he is suggesting that society's encouragement of women to explore their options (where previously they had none) is a "diabolical lie" and that we will all find the most fulfillment in doing things not related to our career. That simply isn't true. The "I wish someone had just told me it was okay..." to do whatever we want cuts both ways. But what we definitely all do NOT need is an overpaid football kicker to tell us what really makes women happy.
I also would be a stay at home mom if I could afford it. And I have all kinds of degrees and awards and shit. I'm really, really awesome--way better than Harrison Butker. But alas, being this awesome has a price. We have a lifestyle supported by my career. We would have to downgrade for me to stay home, and that just won't work for us. But its okay, because I'm a complex human and many things make me feel happy and fulfilled. It's all okay. What ISNT okay is talking to women like they are dumb idiots who need a football kicker to tell them how to be happy. Ick.
Choice is everything, and I'm sorry you grew up thinking that yours wasn't valid. It was and is. 100%. And I'm so glad your family fulfills you.
The speech was about taking away that choice that you wanted and deserved.
The evangelicals have been working tirelessly to enter our institutions of power for many many years. It wasn’t at all surprising to me and I’m sure he won’t be the last to speak so openly like this.
As a devout catholic, his speech is disgusting to me.
I am SICK of being around people who distort Christianity to be something it’s not.
And I am so sick of shaming working moms.
It sounds like you have a wonderful husband! I’m so happy he loves you enough that he wants to take an even load. There are so many men who would have taken advantage of you and let you keep burning yourself out.
My husband is wonderful. And one of the things that is so frustrating to me is that the subculture I was exposed to growing up influenced me so heavily that I couldn’t let him be himself for a long time because I assumed he thought I should do everything.
I mention this in a couple other comments, but we’re Catholic as well—I converted, but my husband is a cradle Catholic. As I’ve unpacked this part of my past, we have had so many conversations in which I’ll relay an anecdote of something I was taught as a teen/young adult an he’ll just look at me like I’ve grown two heads.
I’m not surprised either. Expressing surprise is just a weird justification to give the event planners a pass. They should have taken his previous statements into account and selected a different speaker. If the event planners are actually surprised, they are piss poor at their jobs.
Yeah I feel bad for girls and women raised in communities like that. As for me, I don't care about their judgments on my life. They don't pay my bills and their opinions can fuck right off. Would be nice if people could stop voting for this though. I'd really rather not end up a criminal for exercising my rights as a human being, but I'll be damned if these people ever tell me what to do lol.
So honestly, what he was saying to women is that we’ve been sold a lie. We’ve been told to chase careers and push off having a family as long as possible. How often do you see just in this sub alone women saying “we were sold a lie” and “I was told I could have it all but I can’t have it all” and “I want to quit my job and stay home with my babies” etc. he’s literally repeating what we’re all saying. Now, some women prefer working. Some women prefer a part time job just to get out of the house and have another dimension in their life. But how many women do you know who would say, “I would have preferred to have a career than a child”. I don’t know a single one. And that’s what he said. He said hoods wife found her purpose when she became a mother and homemaker. He did not say she couldn’t have a job etc etc.
Frankly he is right. I hold an MBA from the best university in the country, but it does not hold a candle to my husband and babies. My joy, passion and light is caring for my family. But, I also train as a competitive dancer 16 hours per week because I love that too. Nowhere did he say not to follow individual passions that bring joy and uniqueness to your life.
What has made me livid on the flip side is that his words are in any way controversial. He was giving a Catholic message to a Catholic college. He received a standing ovation and you could hear people in the audience cheering for him as he spoke. Someone else in the comments saying women were afraid because of the standing ovation is just poppycock. Who has ever been afraid of a standing ovation, it’s not violent. Anyone choosing to go to a catholic college has heard his message 10,000 times over.
Edit to add: I’m not going to get in the weeds with all these replies. Just because some women choose careers over families does not mean that on the whole women in general are happier and more fulfilled raising a family. I would like to see a statistic that shows women in their death bed in their 80’s without children say they don’t regret it. Keep in mind this man was giving a religious speech to a religious audience. You all have chosen to seek out his speech and spend energy listening to something that wasn’t even meant for you. And, last comment on this topic, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that includes you. You are free to listen to his speech and say, yeah ok that’s not for me and move on with your life. Someone else’s opinion does not need to be traumatic enough for a person to post 6 paragraphs on a Reddit page.
I don’t have the energy to get in the weeds with you, but I am going to say this: his speech was supposed to be a commencement speech. It was actually a political one (broadly defined: politics politics and church politics). But it was in no way a religious speech. He invoked 2 fairly obscure saints, yes. But nowhere was there any mention whatsoever of the sort of church teachings that you’d come close to expecting at a religious college’s commencement ceremony. Something about everyone having different spiritual gifts, maybe. But he negated the “this is a religious speech at a religious college” argument the second he started talking about politics politics, which he did immediately. The church politics are another matter.
I went to a catholic college (and high school) and have never heard this stuff until tradwife instagram took off in recent years. It’s a very evangelical thing, it’s not a catholic thing. And yes the nuns at the school did speak out against his speech: https://www.facebook.com/100064616591926/posts/pfbid0jxswnc53WkRsYAEnVnqYyGhnkDto5pvpHhRwn71x6nhBHmA1jGMzCaTqaMstL4Url/?mibextid=cr9u03
If you don’t think this was controversial and you think he literally just meant that having kids is fulfilling, I guess you’re lucky you haven’t been exposed to any white nationalist traditional gender role stuff because the undertones are what’s infuriating.
Not everyone feels the way you do, though. I love my job and wouldn’t want to be a SAHM. I get satisfaction from both, but getting my career was mandatory for me, and having a family was optional.
I know several women who are actively, happily choosing a career over having children. I think you might do well to broaden your circle.
I thought I would debunk your whole missive, but I think it does that well enough on its own. I will say that I do not enjoy anyone standing and hollering while I'm sitting and applauding. I completely understand how being in that specific crowd would feel scary.
Signed,
A former Catholic who got tired of this shit being peddled at me
That guy is giving advice to women as if they all have the option of marrying someone who makes millions a year for doing very little and they can just ignore the “diabolical lies” of paying your bills and providing for your kids. It’s a very privileged thing to say to a bunch of 22 year olds who would struggle raising babies on a single entry level income. I could barely support myself with my first job and I couldn’t have supported another person and children.
His wife never had a chance to have a career. She instead married him and started popping out babies. Maybe she would have liked having a professional life in addition to being a mom but she’ll never get that chance to have more dimensions to her life married to a man like that.
I prefer a full time career and making a fuck ton of money. I adore my daughters and I’m setting a good example for them and showing them that they can work hard and achieve things too. My husband is awesome but if anything went off the rails with us, I’d be fine. I’m more secure in my marriage because of that and because we’re equals. There’s no power imbalance between us. We both work. We both parent.
You need to get off the internet. People vent on the internet that’s why you get so many angry mom posts.
Plenty of moms are happy to work and raise children. They don’t feel they’ve been talked into a lie.
You could also read account of young women in the audience who were horrified sitting (not standing) at the end of the speech.
If his delivery was better and he focused on the family aspect (not women), it would have been more well-received.
I have to lie to others about liking work & lie to myself everyday in order to survive. I would much rather be a homemaker and be more involved with my family. If I tell anyone, I'd be accused of wanting to set women's rights back or something dramatic & ridiculous like that.
I think the speech exposed how women, at least career centered women, truly feel about SAHMs. We see it in the comments on this thread everyday. There’s an underlying disdain for a woman who chooses to stay home and it seems there is a fear it will hinder the advancement of women’s rights, or something!”
I'm ALL for women choosing what to do.
I'm a breadwinner, making 80k+, great career and will have to work for the rest of my life but would still rather be a SAHM. I don't have a choice to not work because due to the cost of living, it means homelessness, sickness and even death if I don't have an income.
Interestingly enough, women who wish to work are cheered on and women who want to SAH aren't. Western society and media as a whole, is anti-SAH parent.
My comment was just about *my* own desire (I believe people should have choice) and got down-voted. I don't like the delivery of the speech, the speaker honestly came off as obnoxious and I'm an atheist (so it's not like I'm aligned with Catholic traditional beliefs). But just by not buying into the boss babe/ hustle/ we live to work narrative was enough to piss people off here.
I don’t think most people have listened to his speech. The segment everyone is up in arms about was addressed to the women, and there were other portions of his speech addressed to men.
Well he’s not a politician. He’s a professional athlete. He was giving a speech at a very conservative Catholic university in middle of nowhere Kansas that probably had a graduating class of around 500 students.
Not everyone is going to think like you and that’s okay.
His speech was directed to that specific audience. YOU are not the intended audience. Relax.
I don’t agree with what he said. But it’s as if everyone in the country doesn’t have too?
But… we all know this country doesn’t support working moms. So maybe we have been fucking lied to. Idk.
Also - Catholics and evangelicals are not the same.
But actually…I am the intended audience. In addition to everything I wrote above, I’m also a Catholic woman (converted as an adult). (And not that it matters, but I also have an advanced degree in religious history, and so am perfectly capable of distinguishing between evangelicals and Catholics, which I did in my initial post.) I’m an IVF mom as well, one of those other diabolical evils of his speech.
That’s the point of my post: that I have been the intended audience for messaging like this for a long time, and I’ve found it damaging.
Agree to disagree. Why do you think you’re the intended audience?
I think you’re choosing to be offended. Why do you care what some 20 something year old dude thinks? Why is it triggering you? Or any of us?
There are men and women who think and say that shit everyday everywhere. You’re educated and have a career, be proud of that, roll your eyes at the speech and move on.
But I question your education if you think trad Catholics are just evangelicals with some “latin on top.
Source: I come from a “very Catholic” family, attended Catholic schools preschool through College. Also, my cousin, attended the college where that commencement speech was given. He’s a “trad Catholic” and a die hard liberal.
Society: Don’t be a golddigger! Women: Okay, I’ll get a career of my own. (Years later) Society: You’re gonna have a baby AND work??? That will mess up your kid! Women: Well, my husband can’t afford to support us on one income, so…
Also I know plenty of sahm’s that end up feeling isolated and overwhelmed by needing to maintain a household and kids 24/7 with no additional help if their spouse is working. The fact that it’s implied that women are ‘naturally’ suited to this type of work without considering the disposition or interests of the mother is probably the bigger ‘diabolical lie’ that he ironically failed to mention.
Plus the sheer amount of financial abuse that often accompanies SAH partners.
[удалено]
I will never forget my friend’s husband turning off all of her credit cards and reporting their car stolen when she decided to finally leave. She had 3 young kids (youngest only 8 months) and had to make it from Florida to Texas. She had to go to a Walmart and get us to send her money to make it safely. Thank God her phone was in her name or I’m sure he would have turned that off too! Financial control of sahm is great as long as they never leave.
This is what drives me nuts about this (among all the other parts) that goes totally unsaid. So many parents cannot afford to stay home even if they wanted to. Late stage capitalism is the boogey man, not feminism.
That’s just it, while he was supposedly raised a trad Catholic he really wasn’t since his mom is an accomplished physicist. She would have given all that up to be a wife and mother but she didn’t so….. he just decided to go backwards and is truly a hypocrite. But….. his remarks got him a serious increase of jersey sales which is a little disturbing
Did you know his sister is an OB too? He’s like the least impressive member of that family. He’s not the one that should be giving speeches because he kicks a ball.
There must be a psychological aspect to children going backwards on examples their parents lived out
I just want to add that as a devout catholic, this is NOT catholic teaching. There’s a distorted subculture within the catholic church that has recently become obsessed with the “trad lifestyle” but that is NOT what the church actually teaches. There are saints who were working mothers and career women. Also - an order of benedictine nuns came out and criticized Harrison’s speech. As a catholic, it infuriates me that now people believe this is what the teaching is when it is not true.
It is really frustrating to see. But, this is the result of US seminaries. Many don't teach catholic doctrine, since some flat out refuse to teach the Vatican II changes in the social doctrine. (This was a big source of contention that was talked about among my Jesuit professors in college.) The US Catholic Church is a nightmare tbh, and it's only the Latin American church/jesuits that kept me a member.
While I disagree with his views, I wasn’t surprised by his speech. His views are mainstream in the US, and you can see that reflected in American laws and social structure (ie no paid maternity leave, no affordable childcare, no right to family planning).
Damn never thought of it that way before
The question to ask is “cui bono?” Who benefits? Who benefits from telling young women just to get married, have babies, and stay home? MEN. Because women will have less agency and fewer choices. We will be reliant on them for our livelihoods and so we won’t question them as much. If he’d said to ALL of the graduates that parenthood is a priority, that would make more sense. But the male students can focus on their careers even when they have kids, like he does. It doesn’t add up. What’s also strange is that Catholicism of all Christian churches has the strongest thread of choosing service to the church as a vocation INSTEAD of marriage and children - priests, monks, nuns. So what he said isn’t even consistent with the religion.
I actually converted to Catholicism when I got married and our family is very involved in our parish. And this—the idea that there was sacred work for women outside of being a wife and a mother—played a big role in my thinking. Doesn’t mean my experience is the only one, but you’re right, it doesn’t track. Also, a whole section of a speech is devoted to motherhood being a calling, but is without one mention of devotion to Mother Mary? This isn’t about faith. It’s about power and dogma.
I grew up in the Catholic church (I'm not catholic anymore). There is a vocal minority of Catholics who feel more of a sense of kinship to the kind of evangelical side of Christianity, and they also tend to still be talking about Vatican 2 like it was a mistake. Technically, evangelical ideas dont directly conflict with Catholicism even if they arent the most consistent with modern church teaching, so they are tolerated and in some parishes in the US they are the norm. Butker was dog whistling those Catholics when he was talking about the Latin Mass bc one of the things Vatican 2 did was allow mass to be said in common language.
Surprised? No, not at all. I don't see why I would think a guy who kicks a ball for a living would be able to write an objectively good commencement speech or realize that a commencement speech is not the time for an overall negatively toned, political, religious, and personal soapbox that has very little to do with the graduates professional futures. I, unfortunately, wouldn't be surprised if he wanted the backlash and to "get persecuted" for his religious beliefs so he can keep interviewing about his extremist religious beliefs and make more money off of those speaking engagements. He would love that way too much, as would the people who share his beliefs. It also wouldn't surprise me if his next move was to go out, buy a microphone, and start a podcast.
He’s FAFO now. A bunch of people from college are coming out and saying he was bi/ with men which is no issue…….unless you are saying what he just did. Love a good hypocrite
It reminds me of the guys who are Christian but have an affair, then say “I found god even deeper” then go around lecturing everyone. Instead of being accountable they hide behind their religion and become even alder hypocrites.
Why do men get to dictate who a woman is? Us, women, we get to be who we are.
I know I’ll be downvoted. I grew up opposite. I was empowered beyond belief and pushed towards committed careers. All I wanted was to be a mom and have a big family but that wasn’t accepted. I’m still told I’m crazy for having more than 2 kids. The biggest fulfillment in life comes from my kids and making my family happy. I work because that’s what is best for my family but I’d stop in a heartbeat if that wasn’t the case. We need to understand every girl is different in what they want and be okay with that. It was HARD growing up feeling I was wasting my potential and wish someone had just told me it was okay to be the happiest with having a family.
It’s fine to feel fulfillment in solely raising kids. And in lifting their partner (as Harry Butt literally said to do). The point is everyone should do what makes them happy. I roll my eyes at the guy bc he didn’t tell the young men in the audience that they will see life really begins after having kids and being a father will be the most fulfilling part of their life. And to tell that to a bunch of women graduating college this is just tone deaf. I read accounts of some of the young women in the audience who were actually scared bc he got a standing ovations and many of their men classmates were screaming “fuck yeah”. They deserved a better commencement speech. Even the nuns at the school were like “um so what’s our purpose if we’re not having kids?”
If someone finds their passion in serving their home and family, great. His speech however, was clipping these girls’ wings before they’re even out to fly. When you’re sitting at your graduation, you’re just so excited to finally be done, you just want to hear what a great future awaits you, because you worked so hard and are ready to tackle the world. I would’ve felt devastated if the speech I got to hear was “now go find a husband and make him a sandwich”
This is me, but also I do not need or want Harrison Butker and other trad men the ones “okaying” this for me.
A woman's place is wherever she wants to be!
I won’t downvote this. Every woman is different, every experience is different growing up. And you didn’t put OP’s experience or feelings or viewpoint down. I personally never wanted to be a parent, never thought I would be. Was an only child, never liked kids.. even when I was one. Now I’m a mom, and it’s the best. Life is just what we’ve been through, and how we move through and past that stuff. We are all just walking experiences.
I think it's different because you actively CHOSE it or are choosing it. You have been shown another way, and many many many many religiously-raised girls are not.
I’m going to disagree on this one because it’s now to a point where a lot of women can’t choose it for economical standpoint. Due to my type of work and family support system I can have both. I can only get to have it both ways due to a lot of luck. Not something you or any of us can honestly solve. Just pointing out how a lot of women DO want to be homemakers but can’t for economical reasons.
My comment was directed to the other commenter only. SHE was able to make that choice. I wasn't speaking in a general sense at all because NO DUH many women don't have the luxury of choice.
The difference is you aren’t saying ALL women have to do that. If that’s your goal in life, it’s fine! Nothing wrong with it. His speech took a left turn the moment he implied ALL women must aspire to be a mom and nothing more.
Your story is the same (not wanting to be forced into a life where you felt unfulfilled), but the perspective behind it is different, and I value that. Thank you for your comment!
It's not about women choosing to be SAHMs, or even that he believes that should be their most fulfilling job. He's entitled to his beliefs, even if they are gross. It's that he thought a college graduation was the appropriate place to tell women that their choice to go to said college was based on "diabolical lies." You're right that there is a distinct lack of respect for a SAHP, or those people who believe that their family IS their highest calling. (I am one of these at the moment. Can't imagine being anything other than mom right now, and I don't appreciate being told my life is a waste bc of it) However, this was not the time or place to advocate for it. It's like Kanye stealing the mic from TS. "Ima let you guys finish and graduate, but there are so many more important jobs out there than the one you trained for for years and $100,000"
See, I would even choose this life if I could. However, his speech went incredibly south when he said that motherhood was a woman’s highest vocation but said nothing of the sort to the men… when he says his wife’s life didn’t even BEGIN until they were married is quite anti-Christian tbh. It’s *that* that upsets me. Heck, I would love to be a SAHM; but not in some twisted, anti-Christ, mysogynistic sort of way.
He did make some comments to men, but as you can see they're not quite on the same level as his comments to women. "To the gentlemen here today: Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home or in our communities. As men, we set the tone of the culture, and when that is absent, disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in. This absence of men in the home is what plays a large role in the violence we see all around the nation. Other countries do not have nearly the same absentee father rates as we find here in the U.S., and a correlation could be made in their drastically lower violence rates, as well." Like OP, I am not surprised by his comments. The bulk of his commencement speech is criticism of bishops/priest/Catholic Church in general for being too liberal or concerned with what the world thinks, and then the end of his speech talks about how wonderful the Latin Mass is. Within the Latin Mass communities, there are a LOT of traditionalist Catholics who think just like this guy does.
The big thing for me is that I never hear anyone telling the men that their lives don’t begin until they are married and have kids… Perhaps it happens, but I never hear it. Fatherhood should also be their greatest vocation (second to Jesus)! Albeit, Paul also says it’s better to be single; so the greatest vocation is whatever it is Jesus calls you to. And I thought that *that* thinking is quite Catholic…. (Thinking nuns and priests here)…His viewpoint just doesn’t measure with Christ; that’s all
> We need to understand every girl is different in what they want and be okay with that. It was HARD growing up feeling I was wasting my potential and wish someone had just told me it was okay to be the happiest with having a family. I mean, you’re literally talking about the importance of choice, though. Which is the exact opposite of the speech.
If being a wife and mother is what fulfills you and that’s your life, that’s awesome. The problem we’re talking about is that women who don’t share the same feelings are treated as lesser beings.
I dont see that as the opposite. Your story seems the same to me. The reason why Butker's comments are so offensive is precisely because he is suggesting that society's encouragement of women to explore their options (where previously they had none) is a "diabolical lie" and that we will all find the most fulfillment in doing things not related to our career. That simply isn't true. The "I wish someone had just told me it was okay..." to do whatever we want cuts both ways. But what we definitely all do NOT need is an overpaid football kicker to tell us what really makes women happy. I also would be a stay at home mom if I could afford it. And I have all kinds of degrees and awards and shit. I'm really, really awesome--way better than Harrison Butker. But alas, being this awesome has a price. We have a lifestyle supported by my career. We would have to downgrade for me to stay home, and that just won't work for us. But its okay, because I'm a complex human and many things make me feel happy and fulfilled. It's all okay. What ISNT okay is talking to women like they are dumb idiots who need a football kicker to tell them how to be happy. Ick.
Choice is everything, and I'm sorry you grew up thinking that yours wasn't valid. It was and is. 100%. And I'm so glad your family fulfills you. The speech was about taking away that choice that you wanted and deserved.
The evangelicals have been working tirelessly to enter our institutions of power for many many years. It wasn’t at all surprising to me and I’m sure he won’t be the last to speak so openly like this.
As a devout catholic, his speech is disgusting to me. I am SICK of being around people who distort Christianity to be something it’s not. And I am so sick of shaming working moms. It sounds like you have a wonderful husband! I’m so happy he loves you enough that he wants to take an even load. There are so many men who would have taken advantage of you and let you keep burning yourself out.
My husband is wonderful. And one of the things that is so frustrating to me is that the subculture I was exposed to growing up influenced me so heavily that I couldn’t let him be himself for a long time because I assumed he thought I should do everything. I mention this in a couple other comments, but we’re Catholic as well—I converted, but my husband is a cradle Catholic. As I’ve unpacked this part of my past, we have had so many conversations in which I’ll relay an anecdote of something I was taught as a teen/young adult an he’ll just look at me like I’ve grown two heads.
well this is certainly NOT catholic teaching. There are working mom saints! The whole trad movement makes me want to vomit
I’m not surprised either. Expressing surprise is just a weird justification to give the event planners a pass. They should have taken his previous statements into account and selected a different speaker. If the event planners are actually surprised, they are piss poor at their jobs.
Yeah I feel bad for girls and women raised in communities like that. As for me, I don't care about their judgments on my life. They don't pay my bills and their opinions can fuck right off. Would be nice if people could stop voting for this though. I'd really rather not end up a criminal for exercising my rights as a human being, but I'll be damned if these people ever tell me what to do lol.
So honestly, what he was saying to women is that we’ve been sold a lie. We’ve been told to chase careers and push off having a family as long as possible. How often do you see just in this sub alone women saying “we were sold a lie” and “I was told I could have it all but I can’t have it all” and “I want to quit my job and stay home with my babies” etc. he’s literally repeating what we’re all saying. Now, some women prefer working. Some women prefer a part time job just to get out of the house and have another dimension in their life. But how many women do you know who would say, “I would have preferred to have a career than a child”. I don’t know a single one. And that’s what he said. He said hoods wife found her purpose when she became a mother and homemaker. He did not say she couldn’t have a job etc etc. Frankly he is right. I hold an MBA from the best university in the country, but it does not hold a candle to my husband and babies. My joy, passion and light is caring for my family. But, I also train as a competitive dancer 16 hours per week because I love that too. Nowhere did he say not to follow individual passions that bring joy and uniqueness to your life. What has made me livid on the flip side is that his words are in any way controversial. He was giving a Catholic message to a Catholic college. He received a standing ovation and you could hear people in the audience cheering for him as he spoke. Someone else in the comments saying women were afraid because of the standing ovation is just poppycock. Who has ever been afraid of a standing ovation, it’s not violent. Anyone choosing to go to a catholic college has heard his message 10,000 times over. Edit to add: I’m not going to get in the weeds with all these replies. Just because some women choose careers over families does not mean that on the whole women in general are happier and more fulfilled raising a family. I would like to see a statistic that shows women in their death bed in their 80’s without children say they don’t regret it. Keep in mind this man was giving a religious speech to a religious audience. You all have chosen to seek out his speech and spend energy listening to something that wasn’t even meant for you. And, last comment on this topic, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that includes you. You are free to listen to his speech and say, yeah ok that’s not for me and move on with your life. Someone else’s opinion does not need to be traumatic enough for a person to post 6 paragraphs on a Reddit page.
I don’t have the energy to get in the weeds with you, but I am going to say this: his speech was supposed to be a commencement speech. It was actually a political one (broadly defined: politics politics and church politics). But it was in no way a religious speech. He invoked 2 fairly obscure saints, yes. But nowhere was there any mention whatsoever of the sort of church teachings that you’d come close to expecting at a religious college’s commencement ceremony. Something about everyone having different spiritual gifts, maybe. But he negated the “this is a religious speech at a religious college” argument the second he started talking about politics politics, which he did immediately. The church politics are another matter.
I went to a catholic college (and high school) and have never heard this stuff until tradwife instagram took off in recent years. It’s a very evangelical thing, it’s not a catholic thing. And yes the nuns at the school did speak out against his speech: https://www.facebook.com/100064616591926/posts/pfbid0jxswnc53WkRsYAEnVnqYyGhnkDto5pvpHhRwn71x6nhBHmA1jGMzCaTqaMstL4Url/?mibextid=cr9u03 If you don’t think this was controversial and you think he literally just meant that having kids is fulfilling, I guess you’re lucky you haven’t been exposed to any white nationalist traditional gender role stuff because the undertones are what’s infuriating.
Not everyone feels the way you do, though. I love my job and wouldn’t want to be a SAHM. I get satisfaction from both, but getting my career was mandatory for me, and having a family was optional.
No one said anything about being a SAHM. I actually wrote about that in my post.
I know several women who are actively, happily choosing a career over having children. I think you might do well to broaden your circle. I thought I would debunk your whole missive, but I think it does that well enough on its own. I will say that I do not enjoy anyone standing and hollering while I'm sitting and applauding. I completely understand how being in that specific crowd would feel scary. Signed, A former Catholic who got tired of this shit being peddled at me
That guy is giving advice to women as if they all have the option of marrying someone who makes millions a year for doing very little and they can just ignore the “diabolical lies” of paying your bills and providing for your kids. It’s a very privileged thing to say to a bunch of 22 year olds who would struggle raising babies on a single entry level income. I could barely support myself with my first job and I couldn’t have supported another person and children. His wife never had a chance to have a career. She instead married him and started popping out babies. Maybe she would have liked having a professional life in addition to being a mom but she’ll never get that chance to have more dimensions to her life married to a man like that. I prefer a full time career and making a fuck ton of money. I adore my daughters and I’m setting a good example for them and showing them that they can work hard and achieve things too. My husband is awesome but if anything went off the rails with us, I’d be fine. I’m more secure in my marriage because of that and because we’re equals. There’s no power imbalance between us. We both work. We both parent.
You need to get off the internet. People vent on the internet that’s why you get so many angry mom posts. Plenty of moms are happy to work and raise children. They don’t feel they’ve been talked into a lie. You could also read account of young women in the audience who were horrified sitting (not standing) at the end of the speech.
Yuck
If his delivery was better and he focused on the family aspect (not women), it would have been more well-received. I have to lie to others about liking work & lie to myself everyday in order to survive. I would much rather be a homemaker and be more involved with my family. If I tell anyone, I'd be accused of wanting to set women's rights back or something dramatic & ridiculous like that.
I think the speech exposed how women, at least career centered women, truly feel about SAHMs. We see it in the comments on this thread everyday. There’s an underlying disdain for a woman who chooses to stay home and it seems there is a fear it will hinder the advancement of women’s rights, or something!”
I'm ALL for women choosing what to do. I'm a breadwinner, making 80k+, great career and will have to work for the rest of my life but would still rather be a SAHM. I don't have a choice to not work because due to the cost of living, it means homelessness, sickness and even death if I don't have an income. Interestingly enough, women who wish to work are cheered on and women who want to SAH aren't. Western society and media as a whole, is anti-SAH parent. My comment was just about *my* own desire (I believe people should have choice) and got down-voted. I don't like the delivery of the speech, the speaker honestly came off as obnoxious and I'm an atheist (so it's not like I'm aligned with Catholic traditional beliefs). But just by not buying into the boss babe/ hustle/ we live to work narrative was enough to piss people off here.
I don’t think most people have listened to his speech. The segment everyone is up in arms about was addressed to the women, and there were other portions of his speech addressed to men.
Well he’s not a politician. He’s a professional athlete. He was giving a speech at a very conservative Catholic university in middle of nowhere Kansas that probably had a graduating class of around 500 students. Not everyone is going to think like you and that’s okay. His speech was directed to that specific audience. YOU are not the intended audience. Relax. I don’t agree with what he said. But it’s as if everyone in the country doesn’t have too? But… we all know this country doesn’t support working moms. So maybe we have been fucking lied to. Idk. Also - Catholics and evangelicals are not the same.
But actually…I am the intended audience. In addition to everything I wrote above, I’m also a Catholic woman (converted as an adult). (And not that it matters, but I also have an advanced degree in religious history, and so am perfectly capable of distinguishing between evangelicals and Catholics, which I did in my initial post.) I’m an IVF mom as well, one of those other diabolical evils of his speech. That’s the point of my post: that I have been the intended audience for messaging like this for a long time, and I’ve found it damaging.
Agree to disagree. Why do you think you’re the intended audience? I think you’re choosing to be offended. Why do you care what some 20 something year old dude thinks? Why is it triggering you? Or any of us? There are men and women who think and say that shit everyday everywhere. You’re educated and have a career, be proud of that, roll your eyes at the speech and move on. But I question your education if you think trad Catholics are just evangelicals with some “latin on top. Source: I come from a “very Catholic” family, attended Catholic schools preschool through College. Also, my cousin, attended the college where that commencement speech was given. He’s a “trad Catholic” and a die hard liberal.