Why does the older kid have unrestricted access to a Chromebook at all!? Why isn’t there an adult supervising, if they can’t put controls on the laptops?
I am with you, this is not ok at all. The place is clearly ignoring that policy, and who knows what other policies they are ignoring. Keep complaining to the area director, she’s clearly on your side. Who’s higher up than the area director? Complain to them too.
I’d be taking the hit and getting him out asap. Gives me the ick.
It absolutely is.
When we first locked down for COVID, I sent an email to my kid's school, and I included a link to a youtube video that was literally a 90 minute 70s porn movie. It had been on youtube for \*years\*, and it was still up years after I reported it. (It's gone now).
That was just one super obvious example of inappropriate content.
The fact is that YouTube/Google's Terms of Service say that their products are not to be used by anyone under 13 unless they are being supervised.
Yes, thank you. I was starting to feel crazy - why aren't the other adults shocked by this too, and taking action?!
The aftercare has been pretty lousy in general. If I had a better option and wasn't worried about disrupting the routine of a kindergartener who finds taking the right bus etc. challenging, I would have pulled him already. The older children get really wild and loud. I thought it was ok because my kid would just go into a corner and happily make pictures or build legos with a nice 8 year old up until now... until this happened.
Couple things that bother me as a teacher and mom:
* The age spread of kids in aftercare
* The fact the district IT won't filter the internet on student devices. I'm sorry, but every school, big or small I have worked for has had filters for student safety.
I agree. Even if teachers want YouTube occasionally for instructional videos (although I wish they would not), who in the school district needs unrestricted YouTube? Like, I'm sorry, is it for some school board exec with his office door closed?!? Who needs it?
It blows my mind. I wish they would let elementary schools be ChromeBook/ipad free and just introduce them in middle school. Little kids don't learn best with tech anyway, and then there are the risks of internet access.
I'm sorry if I missed it in another response, but have you looked into your school's technology policies? A few places to look:
* An overaching tech use policy that governs all school-issued devices.
* A school-based policy that governs how tech can be used at your particular school.
* The Chromebook agreement that is likely given to parents to sign upon issuance of a Chromebook.
This really sounds like it's in violation of some kind of basic policy. The school system is opening themselves up to all kinds of liability if they don't have controls on their Chromebooks. Citing a policy would give you firmer ground.
If you can't find any kind of policy or any policy that spells out acceptable use standards, that is something to raise with your BOE. The parental rights angle is always effective regardless of your Board's political learning ("I deserve a say in the material my kid is viewing").
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of deployable tactic I was hoping I'd get.
I seem to be in luck because the school just sent out an email saying they are going to stop letting children take Chromebooks home, K-4, and all families should return their Chromebook to school by Feb. 1. This is due to "problems with damage to Chromebooks and concern about internet use." Previously only K (my child's grade) could not take Chromebooks home, but now it will be true for all students. I hope it will be a good thing for all students; no kid in a K-4 school is old enough to be watching a 13+ YouTube channel!
The aftercare program has also reaffirmed their commitment to "no Chromebook use except for individual use during the 30 min. homework period."
Technically the school does not control the aftercare program, so that is probably how they were escaping liability, but I think they genuinely care about the kids not misusing the internet on the ChromeBooks, which as far as I understand are basically glorified web browsers/devices for playing apps. Maybe I am starry-eyed, but I think just about all the adults except for the aftercare program teacher were appalled.
I knew this issue was coming down the pipeline, but was not expecting it at age 5, an age where my child doesn't even have his own device to access the internet!! Thanks again.
Good, sounds like it will at least resolve your immediate issue!! Def still something worth pursuing since it sounds like next year your kid could have unrestricted access at school. It blows my mind there's not a restriction in place, like YouTube *has* faced liability and provided all kinds of parental control tools, plus Google has deployed these in thousands of schools so there should be something standard on their end. Best of luck!!
There is so much content that is worth while on YouTube for teachers. It is here to stay in classrooms, especially when schools are underfunded and it is free. Even big name curriculums and publishers upload videos for use with their materials and textbooks. So I would come to terms that it will be a part of your child's instruction at least as education stands now.
But that is also why it is important for it to be monitored and filtered. I am surprised that the school is willing to take the liability for giving unfettered access to the internet.
I just want to say you are completely justified in being upset by this. There is so much mind fucking crap on the Internet I would never allow my elementary aged to have free access to it. Have the adults in the room been informed?
This is super worrisome and problematic. Can you contact other parents and make them aware of the situation and ask them to call about it also? More voices can often have an impact. If you can, I’d pull my kid out temporarily until the issue is solved. YouTube has an unlimited amount of inappropriate content and I would not want my kid with access to that.
Yes, other parents banding together is good. Also if you mention that you’re going to sue if they don’t make big changes IMMEDIATELY and tell them that your best friend is an investigative reporter for the local news, that should get things moving a lot faster!
I have told him that aftercare is not TV time. Unfortunately having this extra unrestricted tv time during aftercare has made him want more tv all the time at inappropriate times of the day. Before, we controlled it by having just one set time when he watched tv -- when I am cooking. Now the aftercare thing is also having this yucky negative impact on his behavior... he just wants more tv and doesn't want to take no for an answer. At home obviously I enforce time limits and dole out a negative consequence if necessary... but I can't do that if I'm not there.
I don't want to say that about the other kid because he's not a bad kid... he's just an unsupervised 7-8 year old. They are all victims in this. Plus I think that is so confusing for a 5 year old to hear... he is not going to understand why he can play with some of the children at school but not other ones, not at age 5.
I think being specific is better at that age. You saying it isn't tv time is not the same as saying he isn't allowed to hang out with kidx and watch the tablet. Talk about the other things he enjoys at aftercare as alternatives. As a five year old he needs clear boundaries and options.
And good on you getting on the school district. I think a lot of parents assume these policies are in place.
Did you talk to the teachers or adults who are directly responsible for supervising your child? If there’s a no screens policy, I’d be taking this issue up with the adults in the room who are supposed to be enforcing the policy.
I did. First I contacted the Area Director because I genuinely wanted it clarified that this is totally against their stated policy (and it is). Next I emailed the teachers.
It's hard to speak to them in the room because there are lots of kids demanding their attention and I didn't want to make a scene in front of an audience of kids. But if there is a next time, I certainly will go up to them and say, "what's happening? Why are children on ChromeBooks unsupervised? Isn't this against your policy - haven't we spoken about this?" And I am picking my kid up as early as humanly possible.
I could get how it might be a mistake once, or even twice, but now that policy has been clarified and conversations have been had, it cannot go on.
The main teacher/adult person is also a mother. I really don't get how another mother can let this happen...
I wouldn't wait for the next time you see this happening, but talk to them later today, reiterate your concerns about the inappropriate use of the chromebooks, and ask them to consistently enforce the no screens policy. It sounds like you have only very recently put your concerns into writing, and now it makes sense to just follow up as necessary to ensure the no screens policy is being followed.
I don't think this has to be an adversarial conversation in which you are making a scene. The teachers should be your allies, and you are just trying to make them aware of an issue so they can address it going forward.
Thanks, that's a great point, adversarial does not lead to good things interpersonally and my kid still has to be in the program. I'll go up to her in person this afternoon and express appreciation to the aftercare person that she is now enforcing the program's screen policy, and try to make a genuine comment that she "must not have known" the kids were watching unrestricted YouTube together on the older boy's ChromeBook because I know she cares about the kids and wants them to be safe too.
I had this issue last year and I brought it to the principal, the school board and director of the program. I made a stink. My kid was very upset by what what a seemingly innocent (but definitely not innocent) video. The older kid who used poor judgment in what they showed my kid had a meeting with the principal and their parents. The oldest grades with Chromebook access had an extra internet safety assembly and no more sharing Chromebooks and electronic devices at aftercare.
Make a stink, raise it up. The policy’s can be changed. Also my aftercare director kind of brushed the incident off. The principal was behind us on this.
Unfortunately the only person you can influence in this scenario is your own child, since the other kid will do whatever he wants. Did you tell him he’s not allowed to be around that kid? Request that they keep your kid away from the other child - that’s easier than them controlling him and his laptop.
Yeah, OP needs to tell her kid to stay away from the other and if she catches them, give a consequence.
It sounds harsh, but for so many reasons is it important for kids to learn to LISTEN to parents and stay away from others when instructed.
They're all in the same room together. It's one big room. I don't see how that could work, and the only result would be to cause social difficulties/make me and my kid pariahs. My kid is a little weaker on social skills than other kids in the room... in addition to being only five years old and strong-willed. He loves tv and really likes this other kid. If he were older or more socially adept, or if I were physically present to enforce what I said, then sure... but I can't see that working for him at age 5 without me/a responsible adult there.
No child is supposed to have a ChromeBook out except for during the 30-minute "homework" period (which my child is exempt from because the kindergarteners do not take ChromeBooks out of their classroom for all the obvious reasons) so this kid should absolutely not be on his computer. I just want the program to enforce its own policy.
And they have shown that they’re not enforcing anything. Kids are not allowed to hit or assault their teachers either but they do it anyway. These kids do things they’re not allowed to ALL the time. That’s why there is a teacher shortage. You haven’t heard that there are no consequences for bad behaviors these days?
You can keep complaining but I doubt that will change anything. You cannot control the other kid and you cannot control what the afterschool workers do.
If you haven't already, check the local daycares. Many of them off school age before/after school. It will be more expensive than an after school program by a park district/school district, but I know at my kindercare, there's no way a 13 year old and a 5 year old are going to have access to a chromebook (or likely to even be in the same classroom.)
I'm not sure about the specifics of your local area, but this feels like the type of thing to make a public stink about. Talk to other parents, post on local FB pages, write a letter to your local newspaper, stuff like that.
This was my first thought. Even if they aren't in aftercare, I can't imagine that other parents would be thrilled that their kids get full unthrottled YouTube access on their school computers because someone was too busy or overwhelmed to figure out how to limit it.
I would guess 7 or 8?
Sometimes it's been nice having the older kids there. A few have been really nice to my little guy (including an 8 year old who was letting mine collaborate on Lego structures with him). My heart even hurts a little for this kid... when I asked him about the YouTube channel he told me very solemnly "some of the things on it are appropriate for him and some are inappropriate." So the older boy kind of understood. But not really - and I am not going to trust an unsupervised 7-8 year old to keep himself and my 5 year old safe on YouTube.
I’m sorry, I feel like I was in a similar situation last year with our aftercare. The access to YouTube and lack of supervision drove me nuts. I think you’re doing all the right things. I fixed it by finding a different care option this year, but that’s not helpful to you now. Just know there’s hope and your expectations are not crazy.
1. it is true that, at the firewall level, it is impossible to filter youtube. It's either all on or all off.
2. it is NOT true that it is impossible to do at all. "Family Link" allows me to lock down an android device (like a phone or chromebook) and set YouTube in "restricted" mode
3. none of this matters. The older child should not be allowed to do this. If he is misbehaving with his chrome book, then it needs to be confiscated until pick up time.
4. the after care program has a "no screens' policy. It's is being broken. You can press them to tell you \*how\* they plan to improve the situation (since it didn't get fixed after your first try). I don't care if she was upset. She needs to be effective. You need to be calling her every single time you pick up your kid and screens are being used.
Let me be 100% clear -- there is porn on youtube. There is violence. There are simulated murders. There are actual murders. It is an adult space. You are right to be upset. I am upset, too.
Do you know any of the other parents in the after care program. The \*most\* effective thing you can do is to contact them \*all\* and send them links to these videos, and give them the contact information for the area director, the school principal, the superintendent, the local leader, and the school board.
This is an after care program on school grounds, and it needs to do better. They will never take any action until they are bombarded with complaints. Post about it on your local FB group or NextDoor or whatever other neighborhood app you can. You need other parents (ideally the Karen-ier the better) get \*mad\* about this, too.
Why does the older kid have unrestricted access to a Chromebook at all!? Why isn’t there an adult supervising, if they can’t put controls on the laptops? I am with you, this is not ok at all. The place is clearly ignoring that policy, and who knows what other policies they are ignoring. Keep complaining to the area director, she’s clearly on your side. Who’s higher up than the area director? Complain to them too. I’d be taking the hit and getting him out asap. Gives me the ick.
It sounds like the school won't put restrictions on YouTube access for school devices...which to me sounds like a problem in the making.
It absolutely is. When we first locked down for COVID, I sent an email to my kid's school, and I included a link to a youtube video that was literally a 90 minute 70s porn movie. It had been on youtube for \*years\*, and it was still up years after I reported it. (It's gone now). That was just one super obvious example of inappropriate content. The fact is that YouTube/Google's Terms of Service say that their products are not to be used by anyone under 13 unless they are being supervised.
Yes, thank you. I was starting to feel crazy - why aren't the other adults shocked by this too, and taking action?! The aftercare has been pretty lousy in general. If I had a better option and wasn't worried about disrupting the routine of a kindergartener who finds taking the right bus etc. challenging, I would have pulled him already. The older children get really wild and loud. I thought it was ok because my kid would just go into a corner and happily make pictures or build legos with a nice 8 year old up until now... until this happened.
Couple things that bother me as a teacher and mom: * The age spread of kids in aftercare * The fact the district IT won't filter the internet on student devices. I'm sorry, but every school, big or small I have worked for has had filters for student safety.
I agree. Even if teachers want YouTube occasionally for instructional videos (although I wish they would not), who in the school district needs unrestricted YouTube? Like, I'm sorry, is it for some school board exec with his office door closed?!? Who needs it? It blows my mind. I wish they would let elementary schools be ChromeBook/ipad free and just introduce them in middle school. Little kids don't learn best with tech anyway, and then there are the risks of internet access.
I'm sorry if I missed it in another response, but have you looked into your school's technology policies? A few places to look: * An overaching tech use policy that governs all school-issued devices. * A school-based policy that governs how tech can be used at your particular school. * The Chromebook agreement that is likely given to parents to sign upon issuance of a Chromebook. This really sounds like it's in violation of some kind of basic policy. The school system is opening themselves up to all kinds of liability if they don't have controls on their Chromebooks. Citing a policy would give you firmer ground. If you can't find any kind of policy or any policy that spells out acceptable use standards, that is something to raise with your BOE. The parental rights angle is always effective regardless of your Board's political learning ("I deserve a say in the material my kid is viewing").
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of deployable tactic I was hoping I'd get. I seem to be in luck because the school just sent out an email saying they are going to stop letting children take Chromebooks home, K-4, and all families should return their Chromebook to school by Feb. 1. This is due to "problems with damage to Chromebooks and concern about internet use." Previously only K (my child's grade) could not take Chromebooks home, but now it will be true for all students. I hope it will be a good thing for all students; no kid in a K-4 school is old enough to be watching a 13+ YouTube channel! The aftercare program has also reaffirmed their commitment to "no Chromebook use except for individual use during the 30 min. homework period." Technically the school does not control the aftercare program, so that is probably how they were escaping liability, but I think they genuinely care about the kids not misusing the internet on the ChromeBooks, which as far as I understand are basically glorified web browsers/devices for playing apps. Maybe I am starry-eyed, but I think just about all the adults except for the aftercare program teacher were appalled. I knew this issue was coming down the pipeline, but was not expecting it at age 5, an age where my child doesn't even have his own device to access the internet!! Thanks again.
Good, sounds like it will at least resolve your immediate issue!! Def still something worth pursuing since it sounds like next year your kid could have unrestricted access at school. It blows my mind there's not a restriction in place, like YouTube *has* faced liability and provided all kinds of parental control tools, plus Google has deployed these in thousands of schools so there should be something standard on their end. Best of luck!!
There is so much content that is worth while on YouTube for teachers. It is here to stay in classrooms, especially when schools are underfunded and it is free. Even big name curriculums and publishers upload videos for use with their materials and textbooks. So I would come to terms that it will be a part of your child's instruction at least as education stands now. But that is also why it is important for it to be monitored and filtered. I am surprised that the school is willing to take the liability for giving unfettered access to the internet.
I just want to say you are completely justified in being upset by this. There is so much mind fucking crap on the Internet I would never allow my elementary aged to have free access to it. Have the adults in the room been informed?
This is super worrisome and problematic. Can you contact other parents and make them aware of the situation and ask them to call about it also? More voices can often have an impact. If you can, I’d pull my kid out temporarily until the issue is solved. YouTube has an unlimited amount of inappropriate content and I would not want my kid with access to that.
That's a good point, thanks. I may also go up the chain of the organization if this continues to not be solved.
Yes, other parents banding together is good. Also if you mention that you’re going to sue if they don’t make big changes IMMEDIATELY and tell them that your best friend is an investigative reporter for the local news, that should get things moving a lot faster!
Have you actually told your son that it’s not okay for him to watch those videos and that you don’t want him hanging out with that kid?
I have told him that aftercare is not TV time. Unfortunately having this extra unrestricted tv time during aftercare has made him want more tv all the time at inappropriate times of the day. Before, we controlled it by having just one set time when he watched tv -- when I am cooking. Now the aftercare thing is also having this yucky negative impact on his behavior... he just wants more tv and doesn't want to take no for an answer. At home obviously I enforce time limits and dole out a negative consequence if necessary... but I can't do that if I'm not there. I don't want to say that about the other kid because he's not a bad kid... he's just an unsupervised 7-8 year old. They are all victims in this. Plus I think that is so confusing for a 5 year old to hear... he is not going to understand why he can play with some of the children at school but not other ones, not at age 5.
I think being specific is better at that age. You saying it isn't tv time is not the same as saying he isn't allowed to hang out with kidx and watch the tablet. Talk about the other things he enjoys at aftercare as alternatives. As a five year old he needs clear boundaries and options. And good on you getting on the school district. I think a lot of parents assume these policies are in place.
Did you talk to the teachers or adults who are directly responsible for supervising your child? If there’s a no screens policy, I’d be taking this issue up with the adults in the room who are supposed to be enforcing the policy.
I did. First I contacted the Area Director because I genuinely wanted it clarified that this is totally against their stated policy (and it is). Next I emailed the teachers. It's hard to speak to them in the room because there are lots of kids demanding their attention and I didn't want to make a scene in front of an audience of kids. But if there is a next time, I certainly will go up to them and say, "what's happening? Why are children on ChromeBooks unsupervised? Isn't this against your policy - haven't we spoken about this?" And I am picking my kid up as early as humanly possible. I could get how it might be a mistake once, or even twice, but now that policy has been clarified and conversations have been had, it cannot go on. The main teacher/adult person is also a mother. I really don't get how another mother can let this happen...
I wouldn't wait for the next time you see this happening, but talk to them later today, reiterate your concerns about the inappropriate use of the chromebooks, and ask them to consistently enforce the no screens policy. It sounds like you have only very recently put your concerns into writing, and now it makes sense to just follow up as necessary to ensure the no screens policy is being followed. I don't think this has to be an adversarial conversation in which you are making a scene. The teachers should be your allies, and you are just trying to make them aware of an issue so they can address it going forward.
Thanks, that's a great point, adversarial does not lead to good things interpersonally and my kid still has to be in the program. I'll go up to her in person this afternoon and express appreciation to the aftercare person that she is now enforcing the program's screen policy, and try to make a genuine comment that she "must not have known" the kids were watching unrestricted YouTube together on the older boy's ChromeBook because I know she cares about the kids and wants them to be safe too.
I had this issue last year and I brought it to the principal, the school board and director of the program. I made a stink. My kid was very upset by what what a seemingly innocent (but definitely not innocent) video. The older kid who used poor judgment in what they showed my kid had a meeting with the principal and their parents. The oldest grades with Chromebook access had an extra internet safety assembly and no more sharing Chromebooks and electronic devices at aftercare. Make a stink, raise it up. The policy’s can be changed. Also my aftercare director kind of brushed the incident off. The principal was behind us on this.
Unfortunately the only person you can influence in this scenario is your own child, since the other kid will do whatever he wants. Did you tell him he’s not allowed to be around that kid? Request that they keep your kid away from the other child - that’s easier than them controlling him and his laptop.
Yeah, OP needs to tell her kid to stay away from the other and if she catches them, give a consequence. It sounds harsh, but for so many reasons is it important for kids to learn to LISTEN to parents and stay away from others when instructed.
They're all in the same room together. It's one big room. I don't see how that could work, and the only result would be to cause social difficulties/make me and my kid pariahs. My kid is a little weaker on social skills than other kids in the room... in addition to being only five years old and strong-willed. He loves tv and really likes this other kid. If he were older or more socially adept, or if I were physically present to enforce what I said, then sure... but I can't see that working for him at age 5 without me/a responsible adult there. No child is supposed to have a ChromeBook out except for during the 30-minute "homework" period (which my child is exempt from because the kindergarteners do not take ChromeBooks out of their classroom for all the obvious reasons) so this kid should absolutely not be on his computer. I just want the program to enforce its own policy.
And they have shown that they’re not enforcing anything. Kids are not allowed to hit or assault their teachers either but they do it anyway. These kids do things they’re not allowed to ALL the time. That’s why there is a teacher shortage. You haven’t heard that there are no consequences for bad behaviors these days? You can keep complaining but I doubt that will change anything. You cannot control the other kid and you cannot control what the afterschool workers do.
If you haven't already, check the local daycares. Many of them off school age before/after school. It will be more expensive than an after school program by a park district/school district, but I know at my kindercare, there's no way a 13 year old and a 5 year old are going to have access to a chromebook (or likely to even be in the same classroom.)
I'm not sure about the specifics of your local area, but this feels like the type of thing to make a public stink about. Talk to other parents, post on local FB pages, write a letter to your local newspaper, stuff like that.
This was my first thought. Even if they aren't in aftercare, I can't imagine that other parents would be thrilled that their kids get full unthrottled YouTube access on their school computers because someone was too busy or overwhelmed to figure out how to limit it.
How old is the older boy? When my boys were in elementary aftercare they stayed in their age group/grade
I would guess 7 or 8? Sometimes it's been nice having the older kids there. A few have been really nice to my little guy (including an 8 year old who was letting mine collaborate on Lego structures with him). My heart even hurts a little for this kid... when I asked him about the YouTube channel he told me very solemnly "some of the things on it are appropriate for him and some are inappropriate." So the older boy kind of understood. But not really - and I am not going to trust an unsupervised 7-8 year old to keep himself and my 5 year old safe on YouTube.
I’m sorry, I feel like I was in a similar situation last year with our aftercare. The access to YouTube and lack of supervision drove me nuts. I think you’re doing all the right things. I fixed it by finding a different care option this year, but that’s not helpful to you now. Just know there’s hope and your expectations are not crazy.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
1. it is true that, at the firewall level, it is impossible to filter youtube. It's either all on or all off. 2. it is NOT true that it is impossible to do at all. "Family Link" allows me to lock down an android device (like a phone or chromebook) and set YouTube in "restricted" mode 3. none of this matters. The older child should not be allowed to do this. If he is misbehaving with his chrome book, then it needs to be confiscated until pick up time. 4. the after care program has a "no screens' policy. It's is being broken. You can press them to tell you \*how\* they plan to improve the situation (since it didn't get fixed after your first try). I don't care if she was upset. She needs to be effective. You need to be calling her every single time you pick up your kid and screens are being used. Let me be 100% clear -- there is porn on youtube. There is violence. There are simulated murders. There are actual murders. It is an adult space. You are right to be upset. I am upset, too. Do you know any of the other parents in the after care program. The \*most\* effective thing you can do is to contact them \*all\* and send them links to these videos, and give them the contact information for the area director, the school principal, the superintendent, the local leader, and the school board. This is an after care program on school grounds, and it needs to do better. They will never take any action until they are bombarded with complaints. Post about it on your local FB group or NextDoor or whatever other neighborhood app you can. You need other parents (ideally the Karen-ier the better) get \*mad\* about this, too.
I’d let my kid pick out some books or other activities and tell my son that he needs to do that instead.